proper_o find_v in_o such_o assembly_n i_o meâ—ne_v in_o general_a council_n unto_o who_o as_o have_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n there_o must_v be_v no_o appeal_n at_o all_o to_o conclude_v this_o chapter_n when_o we_o do_v inquire_v about_o power_n of_o appeal_n and_o unto_o what_o court_v appeal_n must_v be_v bring_v our_o way_n be_v not_o to_o seek_v for_o such_o â—_z as_o can_v err_v for_o such_o we_o shall_v never_o find_v nor_o for_o such_o as_o we_o think_v will_n more_o seldom_o err_v as_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v have_v it_o for_o that_o rule_n be_v also_o subject_a to_o much_o uncertainty_n and_o exception_n as_o have_v be_v already_o declare_v but_o the_o best_a way_n be_v to_o inquire_v where_o the_o lord_n jesus_n have_v place_v the_o power_n of_o the_o last_o and_o final_a censure_v and_o determine_v of_o cause_n and_o when_o that_o be_v find_v therewith_o to_o rest_v content_v and_o as_o for_o synod_n and_o council_n it_o be_v neither_o their_z not_o err_v nor_o their_o seldom_o err_a that_o can_v be_v a_o sufficient_a argument_n to_o place_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o unless_o the_o lord_n jesus_n have_v so_o appoint_v and_o ordain_v which_o yet_o do_v not_o appear_v and_o so_o much_o for_o this_o first_o place_n wherein_o our_o brother_n deal_v against_o the_o answer_n chap._n ii_o of_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n to_o give_v advice_n and_o counsel_n and_o whether_o from_o thence_o it_o do_v follow_v that_o they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v the_o next_o place_n wherein_o i_o find_v this_o learned_a author_n deal_v with_o the_o answer_n be_v in_o his_o page_n 381._o where_o have_v in_o the_o close_a of_o a_o 4_o the_o objection_n in_o the_o precedent_a page_n bring_v in_o these_o word_n viz._n a_o synod_n in_o dogmatic_a power_n arise_v no_o high_a than_o this_o viz._n a_o man_n or_o a_o single_a congregation_n as_o that_o a_o divine_a institution_n do_v fall_v upon_o it_o among_o other_o thing_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o objection_n he_o say_v thus_o viz._n i_o will_v know_v if_o a_o synod_n dogmatic_a power_n be_v above_o the_o power_n of_o single_a congregation_n i_o think_v say_v he_o it_o be_v not_o by_o our_o brethren_n tenant_n for_o they_o say_v express_o that_o every_o particular_a church_n have_v right_a jus_o to_o decide_v dogmatic_a point_n this_o right_a the_o church_n of_o antioch_n have_v act._n 15_o anâ—_n labour_v to_o end_v that_o controversy_n within_o herself_o which_o show_v that_o they_o have_v right_o anâ—_n power_n but_o they_o have_v not_o ability_n and_o therefore_o in_o that_o case_n they_o seek_v for_o counsel_n light_n and_o advise_v from_o other_o church_n and_o then_o among_o other_o place_n for_o proof_n that_o this_o be_v our_o tenent_n he_o allege_v in_o his_o margin_n my_o name_n and_o mr._n tompsonâ—_n in_o the_o answer_n to_o mr._n herle_v chap._n 2._o and_o after_o the_o word_n above_o rehearse_v and_o some_o other_o to_o the_o like_a purpose_n he_o infer_v thus_o hence_o say_v he_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v answ_n to_o omit_v at_o least_o for_o this_o time_n the_o other_o place_n allege_v in_o his_o margin_n and_o not_o to_o examine_v how_o far_o his_o answer_n reach_v to_o satisfy_v the_o objection_n as_o himself_o have_v propound_v it_o i_o will_v only_o consider_v of_o such_o thing_n as_o do_v direct_o concern_v the_o answer_n for_o that_o be_v the_o scope_n â—ayme_v at_o and_o i_o endeavour_v to_o keep_v close_o thereto_o first_o therefore_o i_o have_v this_o to_o say_v that_o for_o the_o dogmatic_a power_n of_o synod_n above_o congregation_n for_o the_o right_n and_o power_n of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n in_o particular_a and_o for_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n to_o be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v there_o be_v not_o in_o the_o chapter_n allege_v so_o much_o as_o one_o word_n about_o any_o one_o of_o those_o 〈◊〉_d either_o one_o way_n or_o another_o so_o that_o i_o can_v but_o marvel_v why_o this_o reverend_a brother_n shall_v allege_v that_o chapter_n for_o such_o a_o purpose_n 2._o although_o in_o another_o place_n of_o the_o answer_n viz._n page_n 4â—_n there_o be_v word_n to_o the_o like_a purpose_n with_o those_o which_o our_o author_n here_o set_v down_o concern_v antioch_n yet_o for_o the_o conclusion_n and_o consequence_n which_o he_o will_v thence_o infer_v viz._n that_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n as_o there_o be_v nothing_o say_v â—_o the_o chapter_n by_o he_o allege_v that_o look_v that_o way_n so_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o page_n or_o chapter_n where_o aâ—tioch_n be_v speak_v of_o nor_o any_o where_o else_o in_o all_o thâ—_n book_n 〈◊〉_d as_o i_o do_v remember_v that_o can_v any_o way_n serve_v for_o the_o prove_v of_o such_o a_o conclusion_n and_o tenant_n to_o be_v we_o the_o author_n allege_v no_o place_n that_o have_v such_o a_o conclusion_n in_o it_o either_o in_o direct_a word_n or_o by_o just_a consequence_n and_o i_o profess_v that_o for_o my_o part_n i_o do_v not_o know_v of_o any_o such_o 3._o but_o this_o i_o do_v know_v that_o the_o direct_a contrary_n to_o what_o here_o be_v express_v be_v plain_o to_o be_v find_v in_o another_o place_n of_o the_o say_a answer_n viz._n pag._n 7._o where_o there_o be_v these_o word_n viz._n if_o a_o synod_n may_v bâ—_n call_v a_o church_n and_o if_o power_n by_o disputation_n and_o disquisition_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n and_o then_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o may_v be_v call_v government_n than_o they_o viz._n the_o independent_n as_o they_o be_v call_v do_v admit_v a_o synod_n to_o be_v a_o govern_n church_n for_o the_o power_n here_o mention_v they_o do_v allow_v unto_o synod_n now_o the_o power_n here_o mention_v be_v as_o we_o see_v not_o only_o a_o power_n by_o disputation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n but_o also_o a_o power_n to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o they_o allow_v this_o power_n unto_o synod_n as_o they_o do_v exprest_o say_v that_o they_o do_v i_o know_v not_o why_o our_o brother_n shall_v say_v that_o they_o allow_v unto_o synod_n only_o a_o power_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n for_o power_n to_o command_v obedience_n and_o power_n only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n i_o suppose_v be_v not_o the_o same_o and_o if_o they_o be_v not_o i_o know_v not_o how_o this_o report_n in_o this_o particular_a can_v be_v make_v good_a to_o i_o it_o seem_v apparent_a and_o undeniable_a that_o they_o who_o have_v power_n to_o command_v obedience_n have_v more_o then_o only_o a_o power_n to_o counsel_n and_o advise_v and_o they_o who_o have_v only_o this_o latter_a have_v no_o power_n of_o the_o â—ormeâ—_n at_o all_o even_o interiour_o as_o naaman_n servant_n 2_o king_n 5._o have_v power_n to_o counsel_n and_o advise_v their_o master_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v their_o master_n to_o yield_v obedience_n 4_o suppose_v it_o be_v true_a which_o i_o deny_v not_o that_o the_o answer_n in_o another_o place_n â—hough_o not_o in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v do_v say_v that_o aâ—tioch_n have_v right_a to_o have_v end_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n have_v serve_v thereto_o and_o that_o by_o reason_n of_o distension_n and_o through_o want_n of_o light_n they_o be_v force_v to_o send_v out_o to_o â—â—rusalem_fw-la for_o help_n must_v it_o needs_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o his_o assembly_n at_o jerusalem_n have_v no_o more_o power_n but_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v which_o be_v the_o conclusion_n which_o he_o endeavour_v to_o draw_v â—â—om_n that_o which_o be_v say_v concern_v antioch_n i_o â—â—â—ceive_v there_o be_v no_o necessity_n at_o all_o of_o such_o a_o consequence_n for_o whence_o must_v the_o same_o 〈◊〉_d i_o suppose_v from_o one_o of_o these_o two_o either_o from_o this_o that_o antioch_n be_v suppose_v and_o say_v to_o have_v have_v right_o within_o herself_o or_o else_o from_o this_o that_o jerusalem_n give_v counsel_n and_o advise_v any_o other_o colour_n for_o conclude_v such_o a_o conseptionce_n as_o be_v in_o question_n the_o answer_n afford_v none_o that_o i_o know_v of_o 〈◊〉_d for_o these_o two_o particular_n here_o mention_v they_o be_v both_o insufficient_a for_o such_o 〈◊〉_d purpose_n for_o what_o shall_v hinder_v but_o there_o be_v more_o power_n in_o the_o synod_n of_o â—erusalem_fw-la towards_o they_o of_o antioch_n then_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v even_o power_n to_o command_v they_o to_o do_v what_o be_v their_o duty_n though_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o end_v the_o matter_n themselves_o if_o ability_n serve_v thereto_o do_v right_a in_o one_o person_n or_o assembly_n
circumcision_n but_o do_v also_o rebuke_v they_o for_o another_o fault_n to_o wit_n their_o obtrude_a their_o false_a way_n upon_o the_o soul_n and_o conscience_n of_o other_o and_o for_o their_o wilful_a and_o obstinate_a uphold_v that_o opinion_n and_o raise_v a_o schism_n in_o the_o church_n but_o if_o all_o this_o be_v grant_v his_o purpose_n be_v not_o gain_v thereby_o unless_o he_o will_v prove_v that_o which_o he_o do_v but_o only_o affirm_v to_o wit_n that_o a_o synodical_a rebuke_n be_v not_o specifical_o different_a but_o only_a gradual_o from_o excommunication_n and_o that_o both_o must_v proceed_v from_o the_o same_o power_n which_o yeâ—_n he_o have_v not_o prove_v at_o all_o but_o say_v he_o i_o argue_v thus_o if_o the_o apostle_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n refute_v a_o false_a doctrine_n in_o this_o synod_n but_o also_o in_o church_n way_n and_o by_o a_o juridical_a power_n do_v rebuke_n and_o synodical_o charge_v the_o author_n as_o subverter_n of_o soul_n and_o liar_n than_o they_o do_v not_o only_o use_v a_o mere_a doctrinal_a power_n in_o this_o synod_n but_o also_o a_o juridical_a power_n but_o the_o former_a be_v true_a ergo_fw-la so_o be_v the_o latter_a answ_n with_o favour_n of_o so_o learned_a a_o man_n i_o think_v this_o kind_n of_o argue_v be_v but_o a_o beg_n of_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o a_o prove_v of_o idem_fw-la per_fw-la idem_fw-la for_o if_o the_o synod_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n refute_v a_o false_a doctrine_n but_o also_o by_o a_o juridical_a power_n rebuke_v the_o author_n of_o it_o than_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v true_a indeed_o that_o they_o do_v not_o only_o use_v a_o doctrinal_a power_n but_o also_o a_o juridical_a power_n that_o be_v if_o they_o do_v so_o they_o do_v so_o if_o they_o do_v use_v such_o power_n they_o do_v use_v it_o but_o there_o still_o lie_v the_o question_n whether_o they_o do_v so_o or_o no_o and_o whether_o they_o do_v use_v such_o power_n or_o not_o and_o this_o kind_n of_o argue_v do_v not_o clear_v it_o all_o if_o we_o on_o the_o contrary_n shall_v argue_v thus_o if_o this_o assembly_n do_v not_o put_v forth_o any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n or_o discipline_n but_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n conâ—ute_v a_o false_a doctrine_n and_o rebuke_v the_o author_n of_o it_o than_o they_o do_v only_o put_v forth_o a_o doctrinal_a power_n and_o not_o any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n one_o of_o far_o less_o ability_n than_o our_o learned_a author_n will_v soon_o espy_v the_o looseness_n of_o such_o reason_n at_o least_o himself_o we_o doubt_v not_o will_v soon_o espy_v it_o for_o sometime_o we_o hear_v he_o say_v friend_n your_o logic_n be_v naught_o page_n 177._o and_o yet_o be_v it_o speak_v without_o offence_n the_o logic_n which_o himself_o do_v here_o use_n be_v not_o so_o good_a as_o to_o be_v altogether_o without_o fault_n no_o not_o for_o the_o form_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o we_o do_v not_o see_v how_o any_o thing_n can_v be_v conclude_v thereby_o but_o to_o leave_v this_o mistake_n and_o to_o consider_v of_o the_o matter_n itself_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o this_o assembly_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n consute_n a_o false_a doctrine_n but_o also_o rebuke_v the_o author_n thereof_o must_v it_o need_v follow_v that_o this_o rebuke_v be_v do_v in_o a_o juridical_a way_n be_v there_o no_o rebuke_v of_o offender_n for_o their_o fault_n but_o only_o in_o a_o way_n of_o â—â—â—â—ction_n and_o discipline_n i_o suppose_v much_o need_v not_o to_o be_v say_v for_o the_o clear_n the_o truth_n to_o be_v otherwise_o for_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o confess_v page_n 394._o that_o there_o be_v great_a odds_o to_o do_v one_o and_o the_o same_o action_n material_o and_o to_o do_v the_o same_o formal_o and_o page_n 393._o that_o one_o apostle_n might_n himself_o alone_o have_v rebuke_v these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n which_o be_v so_o it_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o though_o this_o synod_n to_o call_v it_o so_o act._n 15._o have_v a_o doctrinal_a power_n yea_o and_o a_o power_n of_o rebuke_v these_o false_a teacher_n yet_o the_o thing_n that_o he_o from_o thence_o will_v infer_v viz._n their_o power_n of_o rebuke_v in_o a_o juridical_a way_n and_o their_o power_n of_o excommunication_n these_o be_v neither_o of_o they_o prove_v thereby_o for_o if_o it_o shall_v be_v say_v that_o though_o rebuke_v do_v not_o always_o imply_v juridical_a power_n yet_o if_o it_o be_v a_o synod_n that_o do_v rebuke_v than_o the_o power_n here_o speak_v of_o may_v be_v conclude_v thence_o to_o be_v in_o a_o synod_n the_o answer_n be_v that_o this_o will_v not_o help_v at_o all_o because_o this_o be_v nothing_o but_o the_o bring_n in_o of_o another_o efficient_a viz._n the_o synod_n for_o effect_v or_o act_v the_o same_o effect_n now_o master_n rutherford_n confess_v pag._n 393._o that_o he_o do_v not_o fetch_v the_o specification_n of_o this_o rebuke_n and_o of_o those_o decree_n from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n and_o give_v that_o for_o his_o reason_n which_o to_o i_o be_v unanswerable_a to_o wit_n because_o one_o apostle_n might_n himself_o alone_o have_v rebuke_v these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n and_o in_o the_o page_n next_o ensue_v he_o confess_v also_o that_o action_n have_v not_o by_o good_a logic_n their_o total_a specification_n from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n which_o be_v so_o then_o though_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o any_o synod_n may_v and_o that_o this_o synod_n do_v perform_v this_o action_n of_o rebuke_v yet_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n to_o wit_n that_o the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n be_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o of_o excommunication_n be_v not_o at_o all_o gain_v thereby_o at_o the_o least_o wise_a to_o end_v this_o passage_n this_o i_o may_v say_v that_o if_o this_o reverend_a brother_n will_v be_v true_a to_o his_o own_o principle_n and_o not_o gainsay_v what_o himself_o have_v already_o write_v he_o for_o his_o part_n can_v conclude_v the_o synod_n power_n to_o excommunicate_v from_o this_o argument_n of_o their_o power_n to_o rebuke_v nor_o yet_o from_o any_o other_o argument_n whatsoever_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o he_o do_v elsewhere_o confess_v that_o synod_n be_v not_o to_o excommunicate_v any_o and_o not_o this_o synod_n in_o particular_a to_o excommunicate_v these_o false_a teacher_n but_o to_o remit_v the_o censure_v of_o they_o to_o other_o church_n command_v they_o to_o do_v it_o his_o word_n as_o they_o be_v to_o be_v see_v in_o his_o page_n 413._o be_v these_o viz._n i_o can_v easy_o yield_v that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n of_o the_o elicit_v act_n of_o many_o part_n of_o government_n such_o as_o excommunication_n ordination_n admit_v of_o heathen_n profess_v the_o faith_n to_o church-membership_a in_o synod_n provincicall_a national_n or_o ecumenical_a but_o that_o synod_n in_o the_o ease_n of_o neglect_n of_o presbyterycall_a church_n command_v these_o particular_a church_n who_o it_o concern_v to_o do_v their_o duty_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n act._n 15._o be_v to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n to_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n in_o case_n of_o the_o obstinacy_n of_o these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n in_o which_o word_n we_o have_v two_o thing_n concern_v excommunication_n to_o omit_v other_o particular_n first_o that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n that_o synod_n shall_v excommunicate_v any_o but_o only_o command_v the_o church_n to_o do_v their_o duty_n therein_o second_o in_o particular_a concern_v that_o synod_n act_v 15._o that_o they_o be_v to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n to_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n in_o case_n of_o the_o obstinacy_n of_o these_o obtruder_n or_o circumcision_n which_o particular_n be_v most_o true_a as_o i_o for_o my_o part_n so_o esteem_v of_o they_o it_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o what_o master_n rutherford_n say_v in_o this_o place_n we_o have_v now_o in_o hand_n be_v great_o weaken_v thereby_o for_o how_o both_o these_o can_v stand_v together_o that_o this_o synod_n shall_v have_v power_n not_o only_o to_o rebuke_v but_o to_o excommunicate_v these_o false_a teacher_n and_o yet_o neither_o provincial_n national_n nor_o ecumenical_a synod_n to_o excommunicate_v any_o nor_o this_o synod_n in_o particular_a to_o excommunicate_v these_o false_a teacher_n but_o to_o remit_v the_o censure_n to_o other_o church_n to_o who_o it_o concern_v command_v they_o to_o do_v it_o how_o these_o thing_n i_o say_v can_v stand_v together_o i_o for_o my_o part_n be_o not_o able_a to_o understand_v chap._n four_o of_o the_o dogmatic_a power_n of_o synod_n and_o of_o the_o power_n of_o congregation_n to_o determine_v matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n serve_v thereto_o in_o his_o page_n 396._o allege_v
answer_n be_v whole_o take_v up_o and_o spend_v in_o two_o other_o thing_n the_o objection_n which_o he_o propose_v as_o we_o be_v whole_o leave_v untouched_a those_o two_o thing_n be_v these_o the_o one_o a_o answer_n to_o another_o passage_n of_o we_o in_o another_o place_n of_o the_o answer_n the_o other_o a_o answer_n to_o the_o last_o part_n of_o his_o objection_n which_o himself_o do_v acknowledge_v to_o be_v the_o say_n of_o other_o and_o not_o we_o and_o therefore_o he_o bring_v it_o in_o thus_o viz._n other_o say_v because_o there_o be_v a_o representative_a worship_n etc._n etc._n by_o those_o word_n other_o say_v plain_o declare_v that_o what_o he_o thus_o express_v proceed_v not_o from_o we_o but_o from_o other_o and_o so_o though_o he_o return_v answer_v to_o this_o say_n of_o other_o and_o to_o another_o say_n of_o we_o which_o we_o have_v write_v elsewhore_n yet_o for_o this_o of_o we_o which_o he_o propose_v in_o this_o hâ—s_n objection_n i_o find_v no_o answer_n thereto_o at_o all_o and_o therefore_o i_o think_v the_o thing_n remain_v as_o it_o be_v unless_o we_o shall_v take_v his_o mere_a propose_v of_o it_o for_o a_o satisfy_a answer_n which_o we_o see_v no_o reason_n to_o do_v nevertheless_o though_o he_o turn_v away_o from_o this_o passage_n of_o we_o without_o return_v any_o answer_n thereto_o yet_o there_o be_v another_o which_o he_o apply_v himself_o more_o direct_o against_o and_o therefore_o to_o this_o sixteen_o objection_n he_o beg_v his_o answer_n thus_o sure_o the_o aforesaid_a reverend_a brethren_n of_o new-england_n have_v these_o word_n but_o it_o seem_v to_o we_o the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n be_v not_o proper_o a_o power_n and_o exercise_v of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n but_o a_o power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o so_o a_o synod_n be_v rather_o a_o teach_v then_o a_o govern_v church_n from_o whence_o say_v he_o i_o infer_v that_o our_o brethren_n can_v deny_v a_o power_n of_o govern_v to_o a_o synod_n but_o it_o be_v not_o so_o proper_a govern_n as_o excommunication_n and_o ordination_n perform_v in_o their_o congregation_n but_o say_v i_o it_o be_v more_o proper_o govern_v as_o to_o make_v law_n and_o rule_n of_o govern_v be_v a_o more_o noble_a eminent_a and_o high_a act_n of_o govern_v as_o be_v evident_a in_o the_o king_n and_o his_o parliament_n than_o the_o execution_n of_o â—hese_n law_n and_o rule_n answ_n so_o then_o thâ—se_a former_a word_n of_o we_o propose_v in_o the_o objection_n be_v whole_o forsake_v and_o leave_v and_o instead_o of_o answer_v they_o he_o fall_v as_o we_o set_v upon_o other_o word_n which_o we_o have_v write_v elsewhere_o and_o apply_v himself_o to_o deal_v against_o those_o other_o by_o which_o deal_v the_o considerate_a reader_n may_v judge_v whether_o the_o former_a word_n be_v thus_o handsome_o forsake_v and_o leave_v do_v not_o still_o remain_v in_o their_o strength_n and_o whether_o it_o have_v not_o be_v as_o good_a never_o to_o have_v propose_v they_o at_o all_o in_o his_o objection_n as_o have_v propose_v they_o to_o turn_v away_o direct_o and_o immediate_o from_o they_o unto_o other_o matter_n without_o return_v one_o word_n of_o answer_n to_o the_o former_a the_o wise_a in_o heart_n may_v consider_v what_o this_o do_v import_n but_o such_o he_o be_v please_v to_o acquit_v the_o former_a and_o to_o apply_v himself_o to_o the_o other_o let_v we_o therefore_o leave_v the_o former_a in_o its_o strength_n and_o unshaken_a and_o consider_v of_o what_o he_o say_v in_o this_o other_o wherein_o when_o he_o speak_v of_o make_v law_n and_o rule_n of_o govern_v either_o he_o meâ—nes_n this_o make_v law_n and_o rule_n proper_o so_o call_v or_o else_o he_o mean_v it_o only_o of_o a_o ministerial_a power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o law_n and_o rule_n of_o christ_n and_o in_o his_o name_n to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o and_o it_o seem_v by_o the_o instance_n which_o he_o give_v of_o the_o king_n and_o his_o parliament_n that_o he_o intend_v the_o former_a sense_n and_o if_o so_o than_o the_o answer_n be_v that_o this_o noble_a eminent_n and_o high_a act_n of_o govern_v as_o he_o call_v it_o do_v not_o belong_v to_o any_o synod_n upon_o earth_n but_o only_o to_o the_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n in_o heaven_n the_o scripture_n abundant_o witness_v that_o he_o only_o be_v the_o lord_n and_o law_n giver_n to_o his_o church_n lâ—â—_n 4._o 12._o isa_n 33._o 22._o for_o the_o clear_n of_o which_o point_n much_o need_v not_o to_o be_v say_v consider_v that_o this_o learned_a brother_n himself_o do_v elsewhere_o direct_o and_o in_o express_a term_n coâ—fesse_v as_o much_o as_o we_o desire_v in_o this_o matter_n for_o in_o one_o place_n speak_v in_o one_o place_n of_o a_o power_n to_o prescribe_v rule_n and_o law_n he_o do_v not_o only_o distinguish_v they_o from_o law_n proper_o so_o call_v by_o the_o word_n directive_n call_v they_o directive_n law_n but_o also_o for_o further_o explain_v his_o mind_n annex_v these_o word_n they_o be_v not_o proper_o law_n which_o the_o church_n prescribe_v christ_n be_v the_o only_a lawgiver_n due_a right_n page_n 395._o and_o in_o the_o page_n follow_v speak_v of_o a_o society_n or_o a_o synod_n power_n of_o make_v law_n he_o add_v for_o explanation_n thus_o i_o take_v not_o here_o law_n for_o law_n proper_o so_o call_v but_o for_o ministerial_a directory_n have_v ecclesiastical_a authority_n so_o then_o the_o church_n or_o the_o synod_n have_v no_o power_n at_o all_o to_o make_v law_n proper_o so_o call_v for_o christ_n â—s_v the_o only_a law_n giver_n and_o if_o so_o than_o the_o govern_v power_n of_o synod_n which_o our_o brother_n will_v prove_v by_o this_o noble_a and_o eminent_a and_o high_a power_n of_o make_v law_n be_v not_o prove_v thereby_o at_o all_o in_o as_o much_o as_o this_o noble_a and_o eminent_a power_n of_o make_v law_n do_v not_o belong_v to_o any_o synod_n upon_o earth_n but_o to_o christ_n only_o and_o this_o may_v be_v a_o answer_n to_o what_o he_o say_v or_o a_o synod_n power_n to_o make_v law_n it_o law_n be_v take_v in_o their_o proper_a sense_n but_o if_o he_o intend_v not_o this_o sense_n and_o meaning_n in_o the_o place_n we_o be_v speak_v of_o but_o only_o the_o latter_a viz_o that_o synod_n have_v power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o law_n and_o rule_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o than_o i_o confess_v the_o answer_n in_o the_o 7_o the_o page_n thereof_o do_v acknowledge_v such_o power_n to_o belong_v unto_o synod_n but_o how_o this_o can_v prove_v their_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o government_n proper_o so_o call_v which_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v thence_o infer_v we_o for_o our_o part_n do_v not_o yet_o perceive_v for_o the_o power_n here_o describe_v be_v but_o a_o mere_a doctrinal_a power_n and_o we_o have_v give_v sundry_a instance_n in_o the_o answer_n pag._n 43._o 44._o to_o show_v that_o there_o may_v be_v a_o power_n by_o way_n of_o doctrine_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n and_o law_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o where_o yet_o there_o be_v no_o power_n by_o way_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o discipline_n to_o punish_v the_o breach_n of_o those_o rule_n which_o instance_n this_o reverend_a brother_n do_v not_o satisfy_v at_o all_o and_o therefore_o though_o synod_n have_v power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n and_o law_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o which_o power_n we_o deny_v they_o not_o yet_o that_o which_o he_o from_o thence_o will_v infer_v that_o they_o have_v also_o a_o power_n of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n do_v not_o follow_v from_o thence_o at_o all_o unless_o we_o shall_v say_v that_o doctrine_n and_o discipline_n doctrine_n and_o jurisdiction_n or_o government_n be_v the_o same_o brief_o thus_o a_o power_n of_o make_v law_n proper_o so_o call_v be_v a_o noble_a and_o eminent_a kind_n of_o government_n but_o this_o power_n do_v not_o belong_v unto_o synod_n but_o to_o christ_n a_o power_n of_o clear_n up_o christ_n law_n and_o command_v in_o his_o name_n obedience_n thereunto_o do_v belong_v unto_o synod_n but_o this_o be_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o government_n but_o a_o ministerial_a power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o so_o still_o our_o tenent_n do_v stand_v that_o a_o synod_n if_o it_o may_v be_v call_v a_o church_n be_v rather_o a_o teach_n then_o a_o govern_v church_n second_o say_v our_o author_n our_o brethren_n incline_v to_o make_v a_o synod_n a_o teach_a church_n answ_n we_o never_o yet_o absolute_o yield_v that_o a_o synod_n may_v be_v call_v a_o church_n 〈◊〉_d on_o the_o contrary_a we_o have_v say_v that_o unless_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v that_o in_o scripture_n the_o name_n of_o a_o church_n be_v give_v to_o a_o
synod_n we_o be_v not_o to_o be_v blame_v though_o we_o give_v not_o a_o synod_n that_o name_n answ_n pag._n 1._o the_o most_o that_o we_o have_v yield_v in_o this_o point_n be_v this_o that_o for_o the_o name_n we_o will_v not_o contend_v and_o that_o if_o a_o synod_n may_v be_v call_v a_o church_n then_o since_o they_o have_v power_n by_o disputation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n they_o be_v rather_o a_o teach_v then_o a_o govern_v church_n answer_n pag._n 1._o &_o 7._o this_o be_v all_o we_o have_v say_v and_o we_o desire_v our_o word_n may_v not_o be_v stretch_v beyond_o our_o intent_n and_o scope_n therein_o but_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o our_o brother_n will_v hence_o infer_v i_o infer_v say_v he_o that_o synodical_a teach_n by_o give_v out_o decree_v tie_v many_o church_n as_o our_o brethren_n of_o new-england_n and_o the_o forename_a author_n teach_v be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n that_o can_v be_v perform_v in_o no_o single_a congregation_n on_o earth_n for_o a_o doctrinal_a cannon_n of_o one_o congregation_n can_v lay_v any_o ecclesiastical_a tie_n upon_o many_o church_n ergo_fw-la by_o this_o reason_n our_o congregation_n shall_v be_v dependent_a as_o be_v the_o jewish_a synagogue_n answ_n when_o he_o say_v the_o brethren_n of_o new-england_n and_o the_o author_n of_o the_o answer_n do_v teach_v a_o synodical_a teach_n by_o give_v out_o decree_v tie_v many_o church_n and_o aledge_v for_o proof_n in_o his_o margin_n answ_n 7._o to_o 32._o q._n 9_o 14._o page_n 43_o 44._o and_o answer_v to_o mr._n herle_v chap._n 4._o pag._n 40._o 41_o with_o favour_n of_o so_o learned_a a_o man_n we_o must_v return_v this_o answer_n that_o neither_o of_o the_o palces_fw-la allege_v will_v make_v good_a his_o purpose_n in_o as_o much_o as_o neither_o of_o they_o do_v make_v any_o mention_n at_o all_o of_o the_o thing_n which_o he_o report_v they_o to_o teach_v viz._n such_o synodical_a teach_n as_o give_v out_o decree_v tie_v many_o church_n let_v the_o place_n be_v view_v and_o the_o thing_n will_v be_v find_v as_o i_o say_v and_o therefore_o how_o they_o can_v be_v say_v to_o teach_v that_o which_o they_o neither_o teach_v nor_o mention_v do_v surmount_v my_o ability_n to_o conceive_v if_o the_o reader_n will_v know_v what_o it_o be_v that_o be_v teach_v in_o the_o place_n it_o be_v no_o more_o but_o this_o that_o in_o some_o case_n it_o be_v requisite_a that_o church_n shall_v seek_v for_o light_n and_o counsel_n and_o advice_n from_o other_o church_n as_o antioch_n do_v send_v unto_o jerusalem_n in_o a_o question_n which_o they_o want_v ability_n to_o determine_v among_o themselves_o and_o that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v synod_n and_o that_o we_o think_v that_o meeting_n act_n 15._o might_n be_v such_o a_o one_o the_o first_o of_o these_o be_v teach_v in_o the_o formâ—â—_n of_o the_o place_n and_o the_o other_o in_o the_o other_o but_o for_o give_v out_o synodical_a decree_n tie_v many_o church_n this_o same_o be_v it_o within_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n or_o otherwise_o be_v 〈◊〉_d teach_v at_o all_o in_o either_o of_o the_o place_n except_o we_o shall_v say_v which_o we_o think_v be_v unreasonable_a that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o synod_n nor_o consult_v of_o other_o church_n for_o light_n and_o counsel_n and_o advice_n but_o there_o must_v be_v in_o those_o other_o church_n so_o consult_v withal_o a_o power_n to_o give_v out_o bind_v decree_n yea_o decree_n that_o shall_v bind_v or_o tie_v many_o church_n we_o think_v this_o latter_a do_v no_o way_n necessary_o follow_v upon_o the_o former_a and_o therefore_o though_o the_o place_n allege_v do_v speak_v to_o the_o former_a yet_o the_o latter_a which_o this_o author_n report_v they_o to_o teach_v they_o do_v not_o teach_v at_o all_o second_o i_o answer_v further_o that_o if_o such_o a_o doctrine_n be_v indeed_o teach_v in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v or_o any_o other_o yet_o the_o inference_n which_o he_o will_v thence_o bring_v in_o that_o then_o our_o congregation_n shall_v be_v dependent_a as_o be_v the_o jewish_a synagogue_n thâ—s_v same_o do_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o the_o synagogue_n be_v dependent_a on_o the_o supreme_a synedrion_n not_o only_o for_o light_n and_o counsel_n no_o nor_o only_o for_o doctrinal_a cannon_n or_o decree_n but_o also_o for_o jurisdiction_n and_o discipline_n that_o synodrion_n be_v their_o supreme_a court_n to_o who_o sentence_n they_o be_v all_o bind_v under_o pain_n of_o death_n to_o submit_v as_o be_v clear_a deut._n 17._o 11_o 12._o and_o therefore_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v which_o yet_o we_o do_v not_o see_v prove_v that_o synod_n may_v give_v out_o decree_n and_o doctrinal_a cannon_n that_o shall_v tie_v many_o church_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o our_o congregation_n shall_v therefore_o be_v dependent_a as_o be_v the_o jewish_a synagogue_n except_o it_o be_v also_o prove_v that_o they_o must_v depend_v upon_o synod_n in_o point_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o discipline_n as_o well_o as_o in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n yea_o and_o so_o depend_v as_o that_o the_o sentence_n of_o those_o synod_n must_v be_v obey_v under_o pain_n of_o death_n sure_o the_o synagogue_n and_o every_o member_n of_o they_o be_v in_o this_o sort_n dependent_a upon_o the_o supreme_a synedrion_fw-mi but_o we_o hope_v 〈◊〉_d reverend_a brother_n will_v not_o say_v that_o congregation_n must_v in_o this_o sort_n be_v dependent_a upon_o synod_n at_o the_o least_o wise_a this_o we_o hope_v he_o will_v not_o deny_v that_o every_o member_n of_o a_o church_n be_v bind_v to_o depend_v upon_o the_o pastor_n of_o that_o church_n in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n and_o yet_o it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o he_o must_v depend_v upon_o one_o pastor_n alone_o in_o point_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o discipline_n and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o doctrine_n may_v be_v dispense_v by_o one_o pastor_n alone_o but_o discipline_n must_v be_v dispense_v by_o a_o church_n which_o one_o pastor_n alone_o can_v be_v and_o therefore_o if_o congregation_n be_v to_o be_v dependent_a upon_o synod_n in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o they_o must_v be_v dependent_a in_o point_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o discipline_n three_o say_v he_o it_o be_v a_o beg_n of_o the_o question_n to_o make_v jerusalem_n the_o supreme_a church_n and_o the_o synagogue_n dependent_a church_n because_o it_o it_o be_v lawful_a only_o at_o jerusalem_n to_o sacrifice_n for_o i_o hold_v that_o jerusalem_n be_v a_o dependent_a church_n no_o less_o than_o the_o small_a synagogue_n in_o all_o their_o trybe_n and_o so_o he_o proceed_v large_o to_o show_v that_o sacrifice_a at_o jerusalem_n do_v not_o make_v jerusalem_n supreme_a answ_n it_o this_o be_v even_o so_o as_o be_v plead_v yet_o that_o which_o we_o have_v say_v of_o the_o completeness_n of_o the_o synagogue_n and_o of_o their_o dependency_n be_v not_o at_o all_o remove_v thereby_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o we_o do_v not_o make_v the_o synagogue_n dependent_a nor_o jerusalem_n supreme_a mere_o upon_o this_o ground_n because_o jerusalem_n alone_o be_v the_o place_n of_o sacrifice_v but_o this_o be_v the_o ground_n upon_o which_o chief_o we_o go_v that_o at_o jerusalem_n be_v the_o synedrion_fw-mi upon_o who_o all_o israel_n must_v depend_v for_o judgement_n and_o from_o who_o sentence_n there_o be_v no_o appeal_n which_o ground_n we_o still_o think_v do_v prove_v both_o the_o incomplearnesse_n of_o the_o synagogue_n and_o the_o supremacy_n of_o the_o synedrion_fw-mi and_o the_o contrary_a to_o this_o must_v be_v clear_v if_o our_o tenent_n in_o this_o matter_n be_v remove_v true_a it_o be_v we_o think_v it_o some_o argument_n of_o the_o synagogue_n incompleatnesse_n and_o imperfection_n that_o they_o be_v not_o permit_v to_o enjoy_v all_o the_o ordinance_n which_o be_v of_o ordinary_a use_n but_o the_o supremacy_n of_o jerusalem_n we_o do_v not_o place_n in_o this_o only_a that_o there_o be_v the_o place_n for_o sacrifice_n but_o in_o this_o withal_o that_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a be_v there_o upon_o which_o all_o israel_n must_v depend_v and_o from_o the_o which_o there_o must_v be_v no_o appeal_n and_o yet_o this_o supremacy_n we_o do_v not_o place_n in_o jerusalem_n consider_v a_o part_n from_o the_o synedrion_fw-mi but_o in_o the_o synedrion_n itself_o and_o therefore_o whereas_o he_o say_v pag._n 415._o that_o we_o may_v as_o well_o conclude_v that_o all_o the_o city_n and_o incorporation_n of_o england_n be_v dependent_a upon_o london_n inasmuch_o as_o the_o parliament_n use_v there_o to_o sit_v i_o conceive_v the_o comparison_n do_v not_o suit_n because_o as_o we_o do_v not_o place_v the_o supremacy_n in_o london_n or_o in_o westminster_n consider_v apart_o from_o the_o parliament_n but_o in_o the_o parliament_n which_o use_v
of_o nice_a the_o first_o general_a council_n of_o constantinople_n with_o other_o counsel_n and_o author_n witness_v the_o same_o pag._n 201_o 202._o and_o in_o a_o three_o place_n he_o grant_v that_o all_o matter_n in_o the_o church_n must_v be_v do_v with_o the_o people_n consent_n consentiente_fw-la plebe_fw-la allege_v a_o matter_n of_o 18._o or_o 19_o author_n for_o the_o same_o tenet_n peaceable_a plea_n p._n 49._o and_o in_o another_o place_n he_o allege_v and_o approve_v the_o judgement_n of_o mr._n calderwood_n and_o mr._n cartwright_n affirm_v that_o this_o liberty_n be_v purchase_v by_o the_o blood_n of_o christ_n due_a right_n second_o pag._n 464._o all_o which_o do_v plain_o show_v that_o in_o his_o judgement_n the_o people_n have_v some_o 〈◊〉_d or_o privilege_n or_o right_a in_o church_n matter_n yea_o as_o himself_o say_v in_o this_o they_o have_v divinum_fw-la jus_o god_n right_a and_o yet_o for_o all_o this_o the_o apostle_n word_n do_v plain_o forbid_v woman_n to_o speak_v in_o the_o church_n 1_o cor._n 14._o 34._o 1_o tim._n 2._o 12._o which_o very_o prohibition_n to_o woman_n do_v also_o secret_o imply_v that_o man_n may_v have_v liberty_n to_o practice_v though_o woman_n may_v not_o now_o then_o if_o the_o people_n have_v liberty_n privilege_n right_o to_o consent_v and_o act_n in_o church_n matter_n yea_o to_o speak_v in_o the_o church_n and_o yet_o woman_n may_v not_o speak_v therein_o how_o can_v this_o stand_v which_o here_o m._n rutherford_n write_v that_o if_o the_o people_n have_v any_o liberty_n this_o liberty_n must_v also_o be_v due_a to_o woman_n if_o the_o apostle_n word_n and_o our_o brother_n own_o doctrine_n in_o the_o place_n cite_v do_v stand_v his_o say_n in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v now_o in_o hand_n can_v stand_v they_o be_v so_o contrary_a one_o to_o another_o three_o say_v he_o what_o privilege_n the_o people_n have_v in_o ordination_n to_o confer_v a_o ministry_n which_o they_o neither_o have_v formal_o nor_o virtual_o i_o know_v not_o answ_n neither_o formal_o nor_o virtual_o then_o hear_v your_o own_o word_n pag._n 7._o i_o deny_v not_o but_o there_o be_v a_o power_n virtual_a not_o formal_a in_o the_o church_n of_o believer_n to_o supply_v the_o want_n of_o ordination_n of_o pastor_n hic_fw-la &_o nunc_fw-la this_o power_n be_v virtual_a not_o formal_a etc._n etc._n whereas_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n the_o virtual_a power_n as_o well_o as_o the_o formal_a be_v deny_v which_o thing_n be_v not_o free_a from_o interfer_v or_o strong_a appearance_n thereof_o our_o word_n be_v not_o just_a the_o same_o which_o m._n rutherford_n set_v down_o a_o privilege_n in_o ordination_n to_o confer_v a_o ministry_n but_o these_o be_v our_o word_n a_o liberty_n exercise_v about_o ordination_n etc._n etc._n and_o who_o know_v not_o but_o there_o may_v be_v a_o liberty_n exercise_v about_o ordination_n or_o any_o other_o ordinance_n by_o way_n of_o consent_n thereto_o or_o desire_v thereof_o etc._n etc._n without_o any_o authoritative_a act_n therein_o and_o if_o this_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n be_v such_o a_o fault_n then_o how_o shall_v he_o be_v justify_v who_o do_v give_v to_o the_o people_n a_o great_a matter_n than_o this_o liberty_n do_v amount_v unto_o even_o a_o power_n to_o do_v that_o which_o shall_v stand_v for_o ordination_n itself_o which_o to_o do_v i_o conceive_v be_v more_o than_o to_o exercise_v some_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n and_o when_o the_o reader_n shall_v have_v consider_v these_o ensue_a word_n of_o m_o rutherford_n then_o let_v he_o be_v judge_n whether_o m._n rutherford_n do_v not_o give_v this_o power_n unto_o the_o people_n in_o some_o case_n as_o a_o rose_n say_v he_o cause_v to_o grow_v in_o winter_n by_o art_n be_v of_o that_o same_o nature_n with_o a_o rise_v produce_v in_o summer_n by_o nature_n though_o the_o manner_n of_o production_n be_v different_a so_o be_v they_o both_o true_a pastor_n those_o who_o have_v no_o call_n but_o the_o people_n election_n and_o those_o who_o have_v ordination_n by_o pastor_n p._n 186._o and_o in_o the_o page_n follow_v he_o give_v two_o reason_n to_o prove_v that_o in_o some_o case_n election_n by_o the_o people_n only_o may_v stand_v for_o ordination_n 1._o because_o god_n be_v not_o necessary_o tie_v to_o succession_n of_o pastor_n 2._o because_o where_o man_n be_v gift_v for_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n and_o there_o be_v no_o pastor_n to_o be_v have_v the_o give_v of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o a_o call_n of_o god_n who_o be_v not_o want_v to_o his_o own_o gracious_a intention_n though_o ordinary_a mean_n fail_v now_o if_o the_o people_n without_o pastor_n may_v do_v that_o which_o shall_v stand_v for_o ordination_n and_o if_o their_o election_n do_v make_v a_o minister_n in_o some_o case_n this_o seem_v to_o be_v more_o then_o only_o to_o exercise_v some_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n for_o as_o much_o as_o they_o may_v do_v this_o latter_a and_o possible_o no_o minister_n be_v make_v thereby_o whereas_o in_o the_o other_o case_n a_o man_n be_v make_v a_o true_a pastor_n and_o minister_n as_o well_o as_o by_o ordination_n itself_o marvel_v it_o be_v therefore_o that_o the_o great_a be_v allow_v as_o lawful_a and_o not_o the_o lesser_a that_o some_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n may_v not_o be_v allow_v and_o yet_o that_o can_v be_v allow_v which_o may_v stand_v for_o ordination_n itself_o and_o which_o make_v a_o ministerâ—_n as_o true_o as_o ordination_n do_v chap._n xviii_o of_o mr._n rutherford_n report_n of_o synodical_a proposition_n in_o new-england_n next_o after_o this_o our_o reverend_a author_n fall_v to_o scan_v as_o he_o say_v pag._n 476._o some_o synodical_a proposition_n of_o the_o church_n of_o new_a england_n as_o he_o call_v they_o together_o with_o a_o table_n of_o church_n power_n which_o he_o call_v the_o table_n of_o new_a england_n but_o with_o favour_n of_o soworthy_a a_o man_n he_o do_v great_o mistake_v the_o matter_n for_o neither_o be_v there_o any_o such_o synod_n nor_o synodical_a proposition_n as_o he_o speak_v of_o nor_o any_o such_o table_n of_o new_a england_n as_o he_o mention_v there_o be_v indeed_o at_o cambridge_n in_o the_o year_n 1643._o a_o print_a conference_n of_o some_o of_o the_o elder_n of_o that_o country_n where_o sundry_a point_n of_o church_n judgement_n be_v private_o discourse_v of_o and_o this_o be_v all_o but_o as_o the_o meeting_n be_v not_o any_o synod_n as_o synod_n be_v usual_o understand_v so_o neither_o be_v there_o any_o synodical_a proposition_n there_o agree_v upon_o nor_o any_o table_n of_o proposition_n agree_v upon_o to_o be_v give_v forth_o as_o the_o doctrine_n of_o new_a england_n this_o i_o be_o able_a to_o testify_v have_v be_v present_a at_o that_o meeting_n from_o the_o begin_n thereof_o unto_o the_o end_n and_o sundry_a other_o of_o the_o elder_n of_o these_o church_n can_v testify_v the_o same_o upon_o the_o same_o ground_n and_o know_v full_a well_o the_o truth_n of_o what_o i_o hear_v relate_v i_o will_v not_o spend_v time_n in_o reply_v to_o what_o he_o have_v write_v upon_o so_o manifest_a misinformation_n and_o mistake_v what_o information_n he_o go_v upon_o i_o know_v not_o per_fw-mi adventure_v some_o note_n may_v have_v come_v to_o his_o view_n which_o one_o or_o other_o may_v gather_v at_o that_o conference_n for_o his_o own_o private_a use_n peradventure_o some_o in_o their_o simplicity_n mean_v no_o hurt_n many_o have_v call_v that_o private_a conference_n by_o the_o name_n and_o term_v of_o a_o synoâ—_n and_o m._n rutherford_n may_v thereupon_o adventure_v to_o publish_v in_o print_n as_o here_o we_o see_v but_o however_o they_o mistake_v a_o rose_n sure_o i_o be_o synodical_a proposition_n there_o be_v none_o 〈◊〉_d any_o synod_n at_o all_o not_o new_a england_n table_n and_o therefore_o i_o think_v himself_o and_o other_o may_v do_v well_o and_o wise_o hereafter_o to_o be_v inform_v by_o good_a and_o sufficient_a intelligence_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o they_o publish_v to_o the_o world_n concerâ—ing_v the_o church_n in_o new_a england_n or_o else_o not_o to_o believe_v the_o same_o much_o less_o to_o divulge_v the_o same_o in_o print_n for_o what_o comfort_n can_v it_o be_v to_o any_o christian_n to_o receive_v and_o publish_v to_o the_o world_n against_o a_o man_n neighbour_n special_o against_o whole_a church_n of_o christ_n such_o report_v as_o for_o the_o matter_n contain_v in_o they_o do_v not_o agree_v with_o truth_n chap._n xix_o of_o the_o appeal_v of_o luther_n and_o cranmer_n and_o of_o the_o power_n and_o jurisdiction_n in_o general_a counsel_n deny_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n whether_o therein_o he_o do_v not_o contradict_v himself_o and_o also_o overthrow_v the_o jurisdiction_n of_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_n assembly_n in_o
have_v take_v thing_n upon_o my_o report_n upon_o trust_n and_o partly_o that_o my_o candid_a and_o fair_a deal_n with_o the_o author_n who_o i_o have_v to_o do_v withal_o may_v the_o better_o appear_v for_o when_o a_o man_n word_n be_v not_o keep_v but_o forsake_v and_o other_o substitute_v in_o their_o place_n his_o mind_n and_o meaning_n may_v soon_o be_v mistake_v and_o represent_v amiss_o unto_o the_o reader_n which_o be_v a_o practice_n that_o i_o have_v often_o see_v but_o never_o approve_v and_o therefore_o i_o have_v not_o use_v it_o for_o i_o will_v be_v loath_a to_o wrong_v any_o man_n special_o a_o man_n of_o such_o worth_a as_o i_o take_v master_n rutherfurd_n to_o be_v by_o impute_v to_o he_o what_o he_o do_v not_o teach_v nor_o deliver_v and_o for_o this_o cause_n it_o be_v that_o i_o have_v usual_o transcribe_v and_o express_v his_o own_o word_n and_o by_o this_o mean_v my_o book_n be_v grow_v to_o the_o great_a bulk_n one_o thing_n more_o i_o will_v advertise_v the_o reader_n of_o and_o then_o i_o shall_v quick_o have_v do_v the_o figure_n from_o 185_o and_o so_o forward_o note_v the_o number_n of_o the_o page_n in_o master_n rutherfurd_n his_o treatise_n be_v set_v down_o twice_o therein_o once_o in_o their_o proper_a place_n and_o again_o after_o the_o page_n 484._o wherefore_o if_o any_o of_o these_o page_n be_v quote_v in_o this_o reply_n as_o some_o of_o they_o be_v if_o the_o thing_n that_o be_v allege_v be_v not_o find_v in_o the_o page_n that_o be_v name_v look_v for_o it_o in_o the_o other_o place_n of_o the_o book_n where_o be_v the_o same_o figure_n and_o there_o you_o may_v find_v it_o courteous_a reader_n study_v the_o truth_n in_o a_o way_n of_o piety_n and_o peace_n be_v zealous_a for_o it_o but_o lose_v not_o love_v to_o the_o saint_n beware_v when_o the_o world_n be_v fill_v with_o dispute_n about_o discipline_n that_o thou_o be_v not_o draw_v only_o to_o erroneous_a opinion_n in_o main_a matter_n of_o doctrine_n be_v sure_a to_o practice_v and_o express_v the_o power_n of_o godliness_n in_o humility_n of_o mind_n mortification_n of_o thy_o own_o corruption_n faith_n in_o the_o lord_n jesus_n and_o love_n to_o all_o his_o redeem_v and_o be_v not_o by_o any_o mean_v draw_v away_o from_o these_o thing_n which_o do_v so_o main_o conduce_v to_o thy_o salvation_n final_o as_o the_o holy_a ghost_n say_v phil._n 4._o 8_o 9_o whatsoever_o thing_n be_v true_a whatsoever_o thing_n be_v honest_a whatsoever_o thing_n be_v just_a whatsoever_o thing_n be_v lovely_a pure_a and_o of_o good_a report_n if_o there_o be_v any_o virtue_n if_o there_o be_v any_o praise_n think_v on_o these_o thing_n and_o do_v they_o and_o the_o god_n of_o peace_n shall_v be_v with_o thou_o improve_v i_o pray_v such_o interest_n as_o thou_o have_v in_o god_n through_o the_o mediator_n by_o afford_v the_o help_n of_o thy_o prayer_n for_o i_o who_o be_o true_o desirous_a of_o thy_o salvation_n r._n m._n decemb._n 10._o 1646._o a_o table_n of_o the_o content_n of_o the_o ensue_a treatise_n chap._n 1._o of_o appeal_v from_o particular_a congregation_n and_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v and_o whether_o by_o mr_n rutherford_n his_o doctrine_n in_o this_o point_n there_o must_v not_o be_v appeal_n to_o general_n counsel_n who_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n he_o do_v not_o yet_o deny_v page_n 2._o chap._n 2._o of_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n to_o give_v advite_v and_o counsel_n and_o whether_o from_o thence_o it_o do_v follow_v that_o they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v page_n 11._o chap._n 3._o of_o the_o assembly_n acts._n 15._o whither_o they_o do_v exercise_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n against_o the_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n and_o whether_o their_o rebuke_v of_o they_o do_v argue_v the_o affirmative_a page_n 15._o chap._n 4._o of_o the_o dogmatic_a power_n of_o synod_n and_o of_o the_o power_n of_o congregation_n to_o determine_v matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n serve_v thereto_o page_n 21._o chap._n 5._o again_o of_o that_o assembly_n acts._n 15._o whither_o their_o rebuke_v the_o false_a teacher_n do_v prove_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o excommunication_n in_o synod_n and_o whether_o preach_v do_v prove_v the_o assembly_n where_o it_o be_v to_o be_v a_o church_n page_n 24._o chap._n 6._o whether_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o of_o the_o dependence_n of_o the_o synagogue_n upon_o the_o synedrion_fw-mi at_o jerusalem_n page_n 30._o chap._n 7._o whether_o the_o lawfulness_n or_o necessity_n of_o appeal_v do_v prove_v a_o superiority_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o synod_n over_o congregation_n and_o of_o sundry_a say_n of_o our_o author_n which_o seem_v to_o interfere_v page_n 39_o chap._n 8._o whether_o antioch_n acts._n 15._o have_v right_a to_o have_v end_v the_o controversy_n among_o themselves_o if_o they_o have_v be_v able_a and_o whether_o their_o send_n to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_v or_o their_o knowledge_n that_o other_o church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a evil_n or_o the_o party_n among_o themselves_o who_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n do_v prove_v the_o contrary_n and_o of_o supremacy_n of_o power_n in_o congregation_n page_n 49._o chap._n 9_o whether_o the_o congregationall_a way_n or_o the_o presbyterial_a do_v make_v the_o gospel_n more_o defective_a than_o the_o law_n of_o excommunication_n by_o a_o church_n that_o have_v only_o three_o elder_n and_o of_o do_v thing_n sudden_o page_n 66._o chap._n 10._o whether_o the_o necessity_n of_o discipline_n be_v great_a than_o of_o sacrament_n and_o whether_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n may_v not_o exercise_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n as_o well_o as_o one_o that_o have_v none_o and_o whether_o a_o man_n may_v take_v on_o he_o the_o whole_a minestry_n have_v no_o outward_a call_n thereto_o and_o may_v not_o as_o well_o take_v on_o he_o one_o act_n of_o baptise_v or_o minister_a the_o lord_n supper_n page_n 75._o chap._n 11._o whether_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v immediate_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v not_o agree_v to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v none_o and_o whether_o otherwise_o neighbour_a church_n be_v not_o a_o loss_n and_o whether_o pretence_n of_o maladministration_n be_v a_o sufficient_a reason_n for_o neighbour_a church_n to_o deprive_v a_o congregation_n of_o its_o power_n page_n 93_o chap._n 12._o whether_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n be_v judge_n and_o whether_o mr_n rutherford_n can_v safe_o say_v that_o none_o of_o they_o do_v so_o teach_v and_o whether_o this_o say_n that_o party_n may_v not_o be_v judge_n do_v make_v against_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o congregation_n any_o more_o than_o in_o a_o general_n or_o national_n council_n page_n 104._o chap._n 13._o whether_o the_o church_n at_o thessalonica_n and_o jerusalem_n be_v each_o of_o they_o more_o than_o one_o congregation_n and_o of_o mr._n baynes_n his_o judgement_n therein_o of_o the_o assembly_n mention_v luke_n 12._o and_o whether_o our_o saviour_n do_v there_o speak_v to_o his_o disciple_n only_o or_o to_o all_o the_o people_n also_o page_n 112._o chap._n 14._o whether_o the_o church_n at_o corinth_n be_v one_o church_n meet_v distributive_o in_o sundry_a congregation_n or_o whether_o it_o be_v only_o one_o congregation_n and_o whether_o 1_o cor._n 14._o 23._o if_o the_o whole_a church_n come_v together_o in_o some_o place_n etc._n etc._n do_v make_v for_o sundry_a congregation_n or_o for_o one_o only_a page_n 123._o chap._n 15._o whether_o the_o church_n at_o ephesus_n be_v more_o in_o number_n then_o corinth_n and_o jerusalem_n and_o the_o judgement_n of_o mr_n baynes_n whether_o that_o church_n be_v many_o congregation_n or_o one_o only_a page_n 137._o chap._n 16._o whether_o the_o church_n at_o antioch_n be_v only_o one_o congregation_n and_o whether_o acts._n 14._o 27._o and_o 15._o 30._o do_v not_o prove_v the_o affirmative_a page_n 140._o chap._n 17._o whether_o or_o no_o liberty_n be_v give_v by_o christ_n to_o the_o people_n but_o woman_n must_v exercise_v the_o same_o as_o well_o as_o man_n and_o of_o the_o people_n liberty_n about_o ordination_n or_o the_o call_n of_o minister_n page_n 146._o chap._n 18._o of_o mr_n rutherford_n report_n of_o synodical_a proposition_n in_o new-england_n page_n 151._o chap._n 19_o of_o the_o appeal_v of_o luther_n and_o cranmer_n and_o of_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o general_a counsel_n deny_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n whether_o therein_o be_v do_v not_o contradict_v himself_o and_o also_o overthrow_v the_o jurisdiction_n of_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_n assembly_n page_n 153._o chap._n 20._o if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v all_o
to_o end_v their_o maâ—â—ers_n if_o they_o be_v able_a extempt_v they_o from_o be_v under_o the_o command_n of_o other_o hoshoulder_n have_v right_a to_o govern_v and_o order_v their_o family_n if_o so_o be_v that_o they_o be_v able_a do_v it_o follow_v therefore_o that_o superior_n in_o church_n or_o civil_a state_n have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v householder_n to_o do_v their_o duty_n herein_o but_o only_o to_o give_v counsel_n and_o advise_v or_o if_o housholdere_fw-la have_v such_o right_n do_v it_o follow_v that_o therefore_o they_o be_v under_o no_o command_n in_o church_n and_o commonwealth_n i_o suppose_v it_o will_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o or_o shall_v we_o say_v that_o class_n and_o provincial_n synod_n have_v no_o right_a to_o end_v their_o own_o matter_n within_o themselves_o if_o a_o national_n synod_n have_v power_n to_o command_v they_o or_o if_o they_o have_v such_o right_n shall_v we_o therefore_o say_v they_o be_v not_o under_o the_o command_n of_o the_o national_n synod_n and_o that_o the_o national_n synod_n have_v no_o power_n over_o they_o but_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v we_o suppose_v master_n rutherford_n will_v not_o say_v so_o and_o yet_o he_o may_v as_o well_o say_v it_o as_o say_v as_o he_o he_o do_v that_o because_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o â—nd_v she_o own_o matter_n if_o they_o be_v able_a therefore_o a_o synod_n have_v no_o power_n but_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v and_o though_o the_o synod_n be_v to_o give_v counsel_n and_o advise_v which_o be_v the_o other_o ground_n whereon_o the_o conclusy_a afore_v mention_v seem_v to_o be_v build_v yet_o neither_o will_v master_n rutherford_n his_o conclusâ—on_n that_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v follow_v from_o thence_o at_o all_o for_o who_o know_v not_o that_o counsel_n and_o advise_v may_v be_v administer_v and_o give_v by_o they_o who_o have_v also_o power_n to_o command_v not_o every_o one_o indeed_o as_o may_v advise_v and_o counsel_n may_v forth_o with_o command_n and_o enjoin_v nevertheless_o counsel_n and_o command_n be_v not_o so_o repugnant_a but_o that_o they_o who_o may_v command_v may_v also_o advise_v paul_n have_v power_n to_o command_v and_o enjoin_v phylâ—mon_a to_o do_v what_o be_v convenient_a and_o yet_o for_o love_n sake_n will_v rather_o beseech_v he_o philem_n 8._o 9_o the_o lord_n jesus_n to_o doubt_n have_v absolute_a authority_n to_o command_v and_o yet_o we_o find_v he_o sometime_o speak_v to_o the_o son_n of_o man_n by_o way_n of_o counsel_n or_o advise_v revel_v 3._o â—8_o i_o counsel_v thou_o to_o buy_v of_o i_o gold_n that_o thou_o may_v he_o rich_a etc._n etc._n shall_v we_o now_o infer_v from_o hence_o that_o the_o power_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v and_o that_o his_o power_n can_v amount_v to_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o command_n i_o suppose_v we_o will_v be_v afraid_a and_o abhor_v to_o deduce_v such_o a_o consequence_n and_o therefore_o though_o a_o synod_n may_v advise_v yet_o their_o power_n to_o command_v which_o be_v more_o than_o mere_a counsel_n and_o advise_v be_v not_o from_o thence_o conclude_v to_o be_v null_a and_o so_o much_o for_o master_n rutherford_n his_o second_o place_n wherein_o he_o deal_v against_o the_o answer_n chap._n iii_o of_o the_o assembly_n act._n 15._o whether_o they_o do_v exercise_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n against_o the_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n and_o whether_o their_o rebuke_v of_o they_o do_v argue_v the_o affirmative_a in_o his_o page_n 388._o he_o lay_v down_o this_o as_o a_o 2d._o object_n viz._n that_o there_o be_v no_o censure_v of_o person_n for_o scandal_n and_o that_o meeting_n act_n 15._o because_o there_o be_v nothing_o there_o but_o a_o doctrinal_a declaration_n of_o the_o falsehood_n of_o their_o opinion_n who_o teach_v the_o necessity_n of_o circumcision_n and_o that_o all_o be_v do_v by_o way_n of_o doctrine_n and_o by_o power_n of_o the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n not_o of_o jurisdiction_n be_v clear_a from_o the_o end_n of_o the_o meeting_n which_o be_v verse_n 2_o &_o 6._o to_o consider_v of_o that_o question_n consideration_n of_o question_n be_v the_o end_n of_o the_o synod_n be_v a_o thing_n belong_v to_o doctrinal_a power_n mere_o and_o then_o he_o subjoin_v my_o name_n and_o in_o the_o margin_n allege_v the_o answer_n chap._n 1._o page_n 8._o ans_fw-fr whereto_o i_o first_o of_o all_o return_n this_o answer_n first_o that_o the_o thing_n here_o in_o question_n be_v about_o the_o power_n of_o that_o meeting_n act_v 15._o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o place_n allege_v by_o master_n rutherford_n that_o can_v warrant_v he_o to_o frame_v such_o a_o objection_n under_o master_n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o as_o proceed_v from_o we_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o that_o meeting_n act_v 15_o be_v not_o mention_v at_o all_o in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v neither_o for_o that_o purpose_n which_o he_o set_v down_o nor_o for_o any_o other_o much_o loss_n be_v the_o objection_n we_o in_o terminis_fw-la now_o to_o frame_v a_o objection_n and_o to_o allege_v chapter_n and_o page_n for_o proof_n that_o the_o objection_n be_v we_o when_o as_o neither_o page_n nor_o chapter_n aleadge_v do_v speak_v any_o thing_n at_o all_o of_o that_o matter_n what_o reason_n can_v be_v give_v for_o this_o i_o know_v not_o nevertheless_o because_o the_o matter_n contain_v in_o the_o objection_n do_v not_o much_o differ_v from_o my_o apprehension_n and_o judgement_n and_o something_o in_o the_o answer_n elsewhere_o may_v possible_o intimate_v such_o a_o thing_n though_o but_o brief_o touch_v i_o will_v therefore_o consider_v of_o what_o he_o say_v for_o remove_v the_o objection_n as_o himself_o have_v propound_v the_o same_o it_o be_v false_a say_v he_o that_o there_o be_v no_o censure_v of_o person_n here_o for_o it_o be_v more_o than_o evident_a that_o the_o public_a synodical_a censure_n of_o rebuke_n be_v put_v upon_o those_o who_o hold_v and_o urge_v the_o necessity_n of_o circumcision_n and_o why_o not_o excommunication_n also_o in_o case_n of_o obstinacy_n for_o the_o synodical_a censure_n of_o a_o public_a synodical_a rebuke_n be_v only_o gradual_o different_a not_o specifical_o from_o excommunication_n &_o both_o must_v proceed_v from_o ouâ—_n &_o the_o same_o power_n so_o then_o the_o sum_n be_v the_o synod_n have_v power_n of_o rebuke_v and_o therefore_o of_o excommunication_n also_o answ_n the_o consequence_n be_v not_o clear_a for_o who_o know_v not_o that_o there_o may_v be_v power_n to_o rebuke_v where_o there_o be_v no_o power_n of_o excommunication_n be_v it_o not_o the_o express_a law_n of_o god_n that_o every_o man_n shall_v plain_o rebuke_v his_o neighbour_n and_o not_o suffer_v sin_n upon_o he_o levit._n 19_o 17_o and_o be_v not_o our_o 〈◊〉_d word_n as_o plain_a if_o thy_o brother_n trespasle_n against_o thou_o rebuke_v he_o and_o if_o he_o repent_v forgive_v he_o luke_n 17._o 3_o whereby_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o one_o particular_a person_n have_v power_n by_o the_o law_n of_o god_n and_o christ_n to_o put_v a_o rebuke_n upon_o another_o if_o there_o be_v occasion_n for_o it_o but_o will_v it_o follow_v hereupon_o that_o one_o particular_a christian_a have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v another_o in_o case_n of_o obstinacy_n i_o suppose_v master_n rutherford_n will_v not_o say_v so_o and_o yet_o unless_o this_o be_v say_v i_o know_v not_o how_o his_o consequence_n can_v be_v make_v good_a that_o if_o a_o synod_n may_v rebuke_v they_o may_v excommunicate_v also_o i_o know_v indeed_o he_o say_v the_o synodical_a rebuke_n be_v only_o gradual_o different_a from_o excommunication_n and_o not_o specifical_o and_o that_o both_o must_v proceed_v from_o one_o and_o the_o same_o power_n but_o this_o will_v require_v some_o proof_n and_o shall_v not_o naked_o be_v affirm_v without_o any_o proof_n at_o all_o for_o of_o itself_o it_o be_v not_o evident_a that_o where_o â—ver_o there_o be_v power_n to_o rebuke_v there_o be_v power_n of_o excommunication_n also_o the_o contrary_n i_o suppose_v be_v evident_a from_o that_o which_o have_v already_o be_v say_v from_o levit._n 19_o 17._o and_o luke_n 17._o 3._o and_o from_o many_o other_o scripture_n and_o reason_n which_o show_v that_o one_o man_n alone_o have_v power_n to_o rebuke_v who_o can_v for_o that_o be_v conclude_v to_o have_v any_o power_n of_o excommunication_n i_o know_v the_o learned_a mâ—n_z be_v copious_a in_o prove_v from_o the_o word_n of_o verse_n 24._o certain_a man_n go_v from_o we_o and_o have_v trouble_v you_o with_o word_n subvert_v your_o soul_n etc._n etc._n that_o this_o assembly_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n confute_v the_o false_a opinion_n and_o doctrine_n of_o these_o teacher_n of_o
mr._n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o and_o chap._n 1._o page_n 9_o of_o the_o answer_n he_o say_v we_o there_o teach_v that_o there_o be_v a_o power_n of_o clear_n truth_n dogmatical_o &_o that_o ultimate_o where_o the_o controversy_n be_v end_v but_o he_o say_v we_o will_v have_v this_o vltimate_a power_n not_o in_o a_o synod_n only_o but_o also_o in_o a_o congregation_n and_o then_o no_o answer_v three_o thing_n which_o there_o ensue_v answ_n our_o word_n be_v these_o by_o power_n of_o decree_n we_o understand_v power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n dogmatical_o for_o the_o word_n translate_v decree_n be_v dogmata_fw-la in_o the_o original_a act._n 16._o 4._o and_o this_o power_n we_o confess_v be_v in_o a_o synod_n though_o not_o all_o in_o a_o synod_n alone_o but_o also_o in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n now_o these_o bring_v our_o word_n if_o therefore_o this_o reverend_a brother_n will_v overthrow_v our_o tenent_n in_o this_o particular_a he_o shall_v have_v prove_v that_o there_o be_v not_o any_o power_n as_o all_o in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n dogmatical_o this_o indeed_o have_v be_v direct_o contrary_a to_o what_o we_o teach_v but_o this_o be_v neither_o prove_v nor_o once_o attempt_v to_o prove_v and_o therefore_o our_o tenent_n herein_o do_v yet_o stand_v good_a for_o any_o thing_n he_o have_v say_v to_o the_o contrary_n and_o no_o marvel_n siâ—h_v the_o express_a word_n of_o the_o text_n do_v witness_v that_o every_o bishop_n have_v power_n and_o be_v boand_v by_o his_o office_n and_o duty_n by_o sound_a doctrine_n both_o to_o exhort_v and_o convince_v gainsayet_n tit._n 1._o 9_o and_o according_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n do_v labour_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o controversy_n about_o circumcision_n and_o have_v much_o disputation_n about_o it_o among_o themselves_o afore_o there_o be_v any_o speech_n of_o send_v to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_v act._n 15._o 2._o which_o show_v that_o they_o have_v power_n or_o right_a to_o have_v clear_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n have_v serve_v or_o else_o this_o endeavour_n have_v be_v sinful_a as_o be_v a_o attempt_v to_o do_v that_o whereto_o they_o have_v no_o right_n so_o that_o for_o aught_o we_o yet_o so_o the_o power_n that_o we_o speak_v of_o and_o which_o we_o hold_v to_o be_v in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o congregation_n be_v there_o indeed_o by_o the_o appointment_n of_o the_o lord_n but_o let_v we_o hear_v master_n rutherford_n answer_v first_o say_v he_o they_o seem_v to_o make_v this_o dogmatic_a power_n a_o church_n power_n and_o the_o exercise_n thereof_o formal_o a_o act_n of_o church_n government_n and_o so_o it_o must_v be_v church_n power_n and_o church_n government_n in_o the_o synod_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o congregation_n answ_n whence_o do_v it_o seem_v that_o we_o do_v so_o make_v it_o be_v there_o any_o such_o word_n as_o here_o he_o set_v down_o or_o any_o word_n equivalent_a thereto_o or_o do_v the_o place_n make_v any_o mention_n of_o church-power_n and_o church_n government_n at_o all_o or_o be_v there_o so_o much_o as_o one_o word_n that_o look_v that_o way_n if_o there_o be_v let_v our_o brother_n say_v that_o we_o seem_v to_o â—each_v as_o he_o do_v report_n but_o if_o there_o be_v not_o we_o be_v sorry_a he_o shall_v report_v we_o to_o teach_v oâ—_n seem_v to_o teach_v that_o which_o to_o our_o remembrance_n we_o never_o say_v nor_o think_v and_o sure_o it_o be_v we_o have_v express_o say_v the_o direct_a contrary_n in_o page_n 7_o the_o page_n next_o save_v one_o afore_o this_o which_o here_o he_o be_v deal_v against_o where_o we_o have_v these_o word_n it_o seem_v to_o we_o say_v we_o that_o this_o power_n viz._n by_o disquisition_n and_o disputation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n and_o then_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o be_v not_o proper_o a_o power_n and_o exercise_v of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n but_o a_o power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o so_o a_o synod_n be_v rather_o a_o teach_n then_o a_o govern_v church_n these_o be_v our_o word_n in_o the_o page_n afore_o allege_a wherein_o we_o plain_o express_v what_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n seem_v unto_o we_o to_o be_v even_o the_o direct_a contrary_a to_o that_o which_o he_o say_v we_o seem_v to_o make_v it_o we_o on_o the_o one_o side_n affirm_v and_o express_v that_o it_o seem_v to_o we_o the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n be_v no_o power_n of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n but_o a_o power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o he_o on_o the_o other_o side_n report_v that_o we_o seem_v to_o make_v the_o exercise_n of_o dogmatic_a power_n to_o be_v formal_o a_o act_n of_o church-government_n and_o so_o to_o place_v church-government_n in_o the_o synod_n in_o which_o report_n we_o must_v needs_o say_v we_o be_v plain_o misreported_n his_o second_o answer_n be_v this_o the_o last_o period_n and_o conclusion_n of_o the_o controversy_n can_v be_v both_o in_o the_o congregation_n by_o right_a only_o and_o in_o the_o synod_n by_o right_a only_o for_o two_o last_o power_n can_v be_v proper_o in_o two_o subordinate_a judicature_n answ_n this_o be_v very_o true_a but_o it_o touch_v not_o we_o at_o all_o for_o we_o never_o say_v the_o last_o period_n of_o the_o controversy_n be_v both_o in_o the_o congregation_n only_o and_o in_o the_o synod_n only_o if_o we_o have_v so_o say_v let_v the_o place_n be_v produce_v where_o we_o have_v say_v it_o for_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v do_v afford_v we_o no_o such_o thing_n nor_o any_o place_n else_o that_o we_o know_v of_o all_o that_o the_o place_n afford_v concern_v this_o point_n be_v only_o this_o that_o there_o be_v a_o power_n of_o clear_n the_o truth_n dogmatical_o in_o a_o synod_n though_o not_o in_o a_o synod_n only_o but_o also_o in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n and_o this_o doctrine_n i_o hope_v our_o brother_n will_v not_o deny_v but_o whether_o this_o power_n be_v last_o in_o the_o synod_n or_o in_o the_o congregationall_a presbytery_n of_o this_o we_o do_v not_o speak_v at_o all_o much_o less_o do_v we_o say_v as_o he_o do_v apprehend_v and_o report_v that_o this_o power_n be_v both_o last_o in_o the_o synod_n and_o last_o in_o the_o congregation_n too_o wherefore_o our_o defence_n in_o this_o particular_a must_v needs_o be_v this_o that_o what_o here_o he_o confute_v to_o be_v out_v be_v such_o a_o thing_n as_o never_o fall_v from_o our_o mouth_n or_o pen_n nor_o for_o aught_o we_o know_v do_v never_o enter_v into_o our_o thought_n three_o he_o say_v if_o a_o controversy_n concern_v many_o congregation_n as_o this_o do_v act._n 15._o i_o see_v not_o how_o a_o congregation_n except_o they_o transgress_v their_o line_n can_v final_o determine_v it_o answ_n neither_o do_v this_o touch_v we_o except_o we_o have_v say_v that_o a_o congregation_n may_v final_o determine_v controversy_n which_o concern_v many_o church_n 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excommunication_n in_o the_o case_n propose_v and_o therefore_o i_o see_v not_o how_o it_o can_v be_v sufficient_a to_o prove_v such_o a_o power_n in_o a_o synod_n for_o which_o purpose_n master_n rutherford_n bring_v it_o of_o necessity_n for_o aught_o that_o i_o see_v one_o of_o these_o must_v be_v say_v either_o that_o this_o assembly_n have_v no_o power_n to_o rebuke_v the_o man_n but_o must_v suffer_v his_o sin_n to_o be_v upon_o he_o though_o god_n be_v dishonour_v and_o other_o endanger_v thereby_o or_o else_o it_o must_v be_v say_v they_o have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v he_o as_o well_o as_o to_o rebuke_v he_o neither_o of_o which_o i_o conceive_v can_v safe_o be_v say_v or_o if_o neither_o of_o these_o can_v be_v say_v it_o must_v then_o follow_v that_o their_o may_v be_v power_n to_o rebuke_v even_o in_o a_o assembly_n of_o many_o person_n a_o political_a society_n and_o yet_o the_o same_o assembly_n have_v no_o power_n at_o all_o to_o excommunicate_v the_o person_n so_o 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preach_v the_o word_n pag._n 411._o 412._o answ_n when_o the_o text_n act_v 15_o do_v mention_n sometime_o the_o multitude_n verse_n 12._o sometime_o the_o brethren_n verse_n 23._o sometime_o the_o whole_a church_n verse_n 22._o beside_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n we_o know_v no_o absurdity_n in_o it_o if_o one_o shall_v say_v here_o be_v formal_o a_o church_n and_o a_o church_n assembly_n in_o which_o church-assemble_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n be_v teacher_n and_o preacher_n though_o they_o alone_o be_v not_o the_o church_n yet_o though_o we_o think_v here_o be_v a_o church_n and_o a_o church-assemble_o we_o do_v not_o think_v mr._n rutherford_n reason_n do_v prove_v they_o so_o to_o be_v for_o paul_n and_o sâ—las_n be_v preacher_n of_o the_o word_n in_o the_o prison_n at_o philippi_n act_n 16._o and_o at_o marâ—hill_n and_o the_o marketplace_n at_o athens_n act._n 17._o and_o yet_o we_o think_v it_o hard_o to_o infer_v thence_o that_o these_o assembly_n be_v formal_o church_n 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forthwith_o any_o church_n and_o therefore_o whereas_o he_o say_v the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n be_v not_o consider_v in_o this_o assembly_n as_o preacher_n and_o teacher_n in_o the_o act_n of_o teach_v because_o then_o the_o assembly_n shall_v have_v be_v formal_o a_o church_n we_o rather_o think_v they_o that_o shall_v consider_v it_o will_v find_v that_o the_o apostle_n do_v and_o other_o elder_n in_o these_o day_n may_v put_v forth_o the_o act_n of_o teach_v and_o preach_v in_o some_o assembly_n suppose_v assembly_n of_o turk_n and_o indian_n and_o yet_o the_o assembly_n not_o thereby_o prove_v to_o be_v church_n chap._n vi_o whether_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o of_o the_o dependence_n of_o the_o synagogue_n upon_o the_o synedrion_fw-mi at_o jerusalem_n next_o of_o all_o in_o his_o page_n 414_o in_o a_o 16_o the_o objection_n in_o this_o and_o the_o former_a page_n he_o say_v thus_o therefore_o be_v the_o synagogue_n of_o the_o jew_n no_o 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and_o high_a church_n answ_n to_o leave_v what_o be_v allege_v aâ—_n object_v by_o other_o and_o to_o consider_v only_o of_o that_o which_o concern_v ourselves_o because_o the_o synagogue_n in_o israel_n be_v dependent_a on_o the_o great_a synedrion_fw-mi at_o jerusalem_n therefore_o some_o will_v infer_v that_o congregation_n in_o these_o day_n must_v be_v dependent_a on_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o synod_n to_o this_o argument_n we_o be_v endeavour_v to_o give_v answer_n in_o the_o place_n allege_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n where_o we_o show_v that_o the_o synagogue_n may_v be_v dependent_a and_o not_o complete_a church_n because_o the_o sacred_a ordinance_n of_o god_n which_o be_v of_o ordinary_a use_n can_v not_o be_v perform_v in_o they_o but_o congregation_n in_o these_o day_n complete_a and_o entire_a as_o have_v liberty_n to_o enjoy_v the_o use_n of_o all_o the_o ordinance_n within_o themselves_o for_o both_o which_o particular_n we_o allege_v the_o testimony_n and_o word_n of_o dr._n ames_n the_o sum_n be_v thus_o much_o if_o the_o synagogue_n can_v not_o enjoy_v all_o the_o ordinance_n within_o themselves_o and_o our_o congregation_n may_v then_o though_o the_o synogogue_n be_v dependent_a on_o the_o synedrion_fw-mi at_o jerusalem_n it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o congregation_n in_o these_o day_n must_v be_v dependent_a on_o synod_n this_o be_v the_o 〈◊〉_d of_o that_o which_o be_v say_v in_o the_o answer_n in_o the_o place_n which_o mr._n rutherford_n allege_v now_o what_o answer_n do_v he_o return_v to_o this_o passage_n true_o none_o at_o all_o that_o i_o can_v find_v none_o will_v you_o say_v how_o can_v that_o be_v do_v he_o not_o propound_v it_o in_o his_o 16_o the_o objection_n as_o that_o which_o he_o undertake_v to_o answer_v i_o confess_v he_o do_v so_o but_o nevertheless_o all_o that_o he_o have_v set_v down_o for_o
congregation_n or_o the_o congregation_n will_v be_v partial_a and_o unjust_a or_o when_o the_o business_n be_v difficile_a and_o intricate_a than_o we_o may_v appeal_v from_o the_o congregation_n else_o we_o may_v not_o these_o thing_n i_o say_v do_v not_o clear_v the_o matter_n at_o all_o because_o still_o the_o question_n remain_v who_o must_v be_v judge_n of_o these_o thing_n whether_o the_o party_n appeal_n or_o the_o congregation_n from_o who_o or_o the_o synod_n to_o who_o the_o appeal_n be_v make_v and_o unless_o this_o be_v determine_v the_o thing_n mention_v allege_v by_o our_o brother_n do_v afford_v we_o small_a help_n in_o the_o matter_n for_o the_o clear_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o what_o we_o say_v in_o the_o answer_n do_v still_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v remain_v sound_n viz._n that_o there_o must_v be_v some_o final_a and_o supreme_a judgement_n that_o controversy_n may_v not_o by_o appeal_n after_o appeal_n be_v spin_v out_o in_o infinitum_fw-la and_o to_o 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that_o other_o church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a evil_n or_o the_o party_n among_o themselves_o who_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n do_v prove_v the_o contrary_n and_o of_o supremacy_n of_o power_n in_o congregation_n but_o though_o our_o author_n do_v not_o clear_v it_o to_o we_o where_o the_o supremacy_n do_v lie_v yet_o in_o this_o pag_n 423_o and_o 424._o he_o use_v a_o argument_n from_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n act._n 15._o and_o our_o own_o doctrine_n concern_v the_o same_o to_o prove_v that_o it_o do_v not_o lie_v in_o the_o congregation_n which_o argument_n we_o be_v willing_a to_o consider_v his_o word_n be_v those_o that_o supremacy_n of_o power_n shall_v be_v in_o a_o congregation_n without_o any_o power_n of_o appeal_n i_o think_v our_o brethren_n can_v teach_v for_o when_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n can_v judge_v a_o matter_n concern_v the_o necessity_n of_o keep_v moses_n law_n they_o by_o nature_n direction_n act._n 15._o 2._o decree_n to_o send_v paul_n and_o barnabas_n and_o other_o to_o jerusalem_n to_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n as_o to_o a_o high_a judicature_n that_o there_o truth_n may_v be_v determine_v and_o then_o he_o add_v that_o mr._n tompson_n and_o myself_o do_v teach_v that_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n have_v jus_o power_n to_o judge_n and_o determine_v the_o controversy_n but_o because_o of_o the_o difficulty_n have_v not_o light_a to_o judge_v thereof_o allege_v for_o this_o in_o the_o margin_n the_o answer_n chap._n 4._o page_n 42._o ergo_fw-la say_v he_o they_o must_v acknowledge_v appeal_v by_o nature_n light_n warrantable_a as_o well_o as_o we_o answ_n that_o appeal_n be_v warrantable_a and_o warrantable_a by_o nature_n light_n till_o we_o come_v to_o the_o supreme_a judicatorie_a this_o we_o deny_v not_o but_o have_v former_o yield_v no_o less_o but_o for_o that_o our_o brother_n here_o aim_v at_o viz._n appeal_v from_o a_o congregationall_a church_n as_o not_o be_v supreme_a to_o another_o judicatory_a this_o we_o conceive_v be_v not_o prove_v by_o the_o example_n of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n nor_o by_o any_o thing_n that_o we_o have_v write_v concern_v the_o same_o and_o the_o reason_n it_o because_o antioch_n have_v right_a and_o authority_n to_o have_v end_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n have_v serve_v thereto_o and_o their_o send_n to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_n may_v argue_v want_n of_o agreement_n or_o imperfection_n of_o light_n but_o argue_v no_o want_n of_o authority_n or_o right_n within_o themselves_o for_o it_o be_v plain_a verse_n 2_o that_o antioch_n do_v endeavour_v to_o have_v end_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o and_o have_v much_o disputation_n about_o it_o for_o that_o end_n afore_o there_o be_v any_o speech_n of_o send_v to_o jerusalem_n now_o this_o endeavour_n do_v argue_v their_o right_n for_o otherwise_o it_o have_v be_v sinful_a as_o be_v a_o presume_v to_o do_v that_o which_o do_v not_o belong_v to_o they_o this_o reason_n we_o have_v render_v afore_o in_o the_o place_n which_o our_o author_n allege_v and_o he_o do_v not_o at_o all_o remove_v it_o and_o therefore_o we_o be_v still_o of_o the_o same_o mind_n as_o before_o that_o antioch_n be_v not_o dependent_a upon_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o other_o church_n but_o have_v independent_a power_n within_o themselves_o as_o many_o may_v have_v who_o yet_o need_v the_o help_n of_o light_n from_o other_o for_o their_o direction_n in_o use_v their_o power_n great_a king_n and_o monarch_n have_v receive_v light_n from_o their_o counsellor_n without_o any_o impeachment_n of_o their_o independent_a power_n which_o they_o have_v in_o themselves_o and_o without_o any_o ascribe_v of_o that_o power_n to_o those_o their_o counselor_n as_o we_o say_v in_o the_o place_n allege_v antioch_n may_v send_v to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_v and_o yet_o this_o send_v neither_o prove_v right_a of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o who_o be_v send_v unto_o nor_o want_v of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o who_o do_v send_v and_o therefore_o whereas_o our_o brother_n say_v antioch_n because_o of_o the_o difficulty_n of_o the_o controversy_n have_v not_o light_a to_o judge_v thereof_o ergo_fw-la we_o must_v acknowledge_v appeal_v to_o be_v warrantable_a we_o will_v rather_o argue_v thus_o antioch_n want_v light_n ergo_fw-la counsel_n and_o light_n be_v to_o be_v seek_v elsewhere_o and_o thus_o we_o conceive_v the_o inference_n will_v hold_v but_o to_o say_v ergo_fw-la there_o must_v be_v appeal_v from_o the_o congregation_n to_o other_o in_o matter_n of_o jurisdiction_n this_o we_o conceive_v will_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o no_o more_o than_o it_o will_v follow_v king_n or_o other_o supreme_a civil_a ruler_n must_v seek_v light_a and_o direction_n from_o their_o counselor_n ergo_fw-la there_o lie_v a_o appeal_n from_o they_o to_o those_o counselor_n which_o consequence_n none_o will_v maintain_v nor_o affirm_v if_o the_o scripture_n have_v say_v that_o antioch_n do_v never_o attempt_v to_o â—nd_v that_o controversy_n as_o know_v that_o the_o end_n thereof_o belong_v not_o to_o they_o but_o to_o other_o or_o if_o it_o have_v say_v that_o the_o censure_v of_o these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n have_v be_v perform_v by_o they_o of_o jerusalem_n and_o not_o by_o they_o of_o antioch_n as_o not_o belong_v to_o antioch_n but_o to_o they_o of_o jerusalem_n than_o our_o brother_n may_v have_v have_v some_o ground_n from_o antioch_n to_o prove_v the_o necessity_n or_o warrantablenesse_n of_o appeal_n from_o congregationall_a church_n to_o other_o judicatories_n but_o such_o no_o such_o thing_n be_v say_v we_o see_v not_o how_o this_o example_n can_v be_v any_o ground_n for_o the_o establish_n of_o such_o appeal_n or_o the_o take_n away_o from_o congregationall_a church_n their_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o themselves_o especial_o we_o see_v not_o how_o this_o our_o brother_n can_v allege_v the_o same_o for_o such_o a_o purpose_n consider_v what_o himself_o have_v write_v elsewhere_o in_o this_o learned_a treatise_n of_o he_o wherein_o he_o examine_v that_o answer_n of_o we_o two_o passage_n in_o his_o treatise_n i_o propound_v to_o consideration_n which_o seem_v to_o i_o to_o make_v for_o that_o independent_a or_o supreme_a power_n in_o congregation_n which_o here_o he_o be_v dispute_v against_o the_o one_o be_v that_o which_o we_o touch_v before_o in_o his_o page_n 413._o where_o he_o say_v that_o synod_n in_o case_n of_o neglect_n of_o presbyterial_a church_n be_v to_o command_v the_o particular_a church_n who_o it_o concern_v to_o do_v their_o duty_n as_o in_o other_o particular_n there_o name_v so_o in_o excommunication_n of_o offender_n and_o further_o that_o the_o synod_n act._n 15._o be_v to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n to_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n in_o case_n of_o the_o obstinacy_n of_o these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n which_o i_o
respect_n of_o its_o end_n now_o if_o this_o be_v all_o the_o necessity_n that_o be_v in_o discipline_n how_o be_v discipline_n more_o necessary_a than_o sacrament_n for_o may_v not_o as_o much_o be_v say_v of_o they_o as_o here_o be_v say_v of_o discipline_n be_v not_o sacrament_n necessary_a to_o the_o well-being_n of_o the_o church_n as_o be_v command_v in_o the_o word_n as_o well_o as_o discipline_n be_v and_o serve_v for_o excellent_a end_n as_o well_o as_o discipline_n do_v i_o suppose_v it_o will_v nâ—â—_n be_v deny_v and_o therefore_o the_o necessity_n of_o discipline_n above_o sacrament_n do_v not_o yet_o appear_v especial_o if_o that_o be_v consider_v withal_o which_o our_o brother_n teach_v elsewhere_o viz._n in_o his_o second_o p._n 211._o &_o sequ_fw-la where_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o sacrament_n be_v not_o only_o declarative_a sign_n but_o also_o real_a exhibitive_a seal_n of_o grace_n have_v a_o causality_n in_o they_o to_o make_v a_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o and_o so_o excel_v all_o civil_a seal_n which_o do_v add_v no_o new_a land_n to_o the_o owner_n of_o the_o charter_n seal_v therewith_o now_o if_o sacrament_n be_v thus_o excellent_a and_o effectual_a how_o be_v it_o that_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n discipline_n be_v make_v more_o necessary_a than_o they_o for_o a_o great_a elegy_n than_o here_o he_o give_v to_o sacrament_n i_o suppose_v himself_o will_v not_o give_v unto_o discipline_n yea_o in_o p._n 302_o he_o express_o affirm_v that_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v essential_a note_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n but_o of_o discipline_n i_o conceive_v he_o will_v not_o say_v the_o same_o sure_o it_o be_v in_o the_o page_n follow_v distinguish_v betwixt_o note_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v necessary_a adâ—sse_n to_o the_o very_o be_v of_o a_o visible_a church_n and_o such_o as_o be_v necessary_a only_a ad_fw-la bene_fw-la esse_fw-la to_o the_o well-being_n thereof_o he_o express_o make_v discipline_n a_o work_n or_o note_n of_o this_o second_o sort_n and_o as_o we_o hear_v erewhile_o he_o in_o page_n 287_o express_o affirm_v it_o be_v not_o necessary_a to_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v some_o marvel_n why_o now_o 〈◊〉_d make_v discipline_n more_o necessary_a than_o sacrament_n but_o he_o give_v we_o two_o reason_n of_o this_o great_a necessity_n of_o discipline_n then_o of_o sacrament_n first_o that_o entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n in_o a_o congregation_n that_o want_v neighbour_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a second_o that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o moral_a necessity_n of_o sacrament_n as_o there_o be_v of_o discipline_n page_n 455._o concern_v the_o former_a his_o word_n be_v these_o viz._n that_o the_o church_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o may_v possible_o be_v extraordinary_a but_o that_o in_o such_o a_o case_n they_o have_v entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n whole_a and_o entire_a within_o themselves_o to_o excommunicate_v scandalous_a person_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a wherein_o first_o of_o all_o i_o observe_v a_o difference_n between_o he_o and_o our_o reverend_a brother_n mr._n herle_n who_o have_v grant_v that_o where_o there_o be_v no_o consociation_n or_o neighbourhood_n of_o congregation_n there_o a_o single_a congregation_n must_v not_o be_v deny_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n do_v present_o add_v that_o the_o case_n be_v extraordinary_a and_o so_o fall_v not_o within_o the_o compass_n of_o the_o question_n of_o the_o ordinary_a rule_n of_o church-government_n independency_n of_o church_n p._n 2._o plain_o confess_v that_o the_o case_n be_v extraordinary_a whereas_o mr._n rutherford_n here_o say_v it_o be_v not_o second_o as_o he_o express_o differ_v from_o mr._n herle_n so_o it_o be_v considerable_a whether_o his_o word_n do_v well_o agree_v with_o themselves_o for_o say_v he_o that_o the_o church_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o may_v be_v extraordinary_a but_o that_o in_o such_o case_n they_o have_v entire_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n of_o discipline_n within_o themselves_o to_o excommunicate_v scandalous_a person_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a which_o say_v needs_o good_a explication_n for_o it_o seem_v hard_a to_o conceive_v how_o the_o power_n and_o action_n of_o any_o subject_n or_o efficient_a shall_v be_v more_o usual_a and_o ordinary_a then_o it_o be_v very_o be_v and_o subsistence_n which_o yet_o must_v needs_o be_v if_o this_o stand_v good_a that_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n in_o a_o island_n be_v extraordinary_a and_o yet_o the_o power_n of_o such_o a_o church_n to_o excommunicate_v be_v usual_a and_o ordinary_a three_o if_o their_o power_n of_o discipline_n yea_o entire_a power_n be_v in_o the_o case_n express_v orâ—â—â—ary_a shall_v we_o then_o say_v that_o if_o the_o case_n â—e_v otherwise_o so_o that_o a_o church_n be_v not_o alone_o but_o have_v neighbour_n entireness_n of_o power_n in_o such_o a_o case_n be_v extraordinary_a it_o seem_v aâ—_n must_v â—ay_n 〈◊〉_d or_o else_o we_o must_v say_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o both_o case_n be_v ordinary_a if_o this_o latter_a be_v say_v it_o be_v as_o much_o as_o we_o desire_v for_o than_o i_o hope_v it_o must_v not_o be_v a_o small_a 〈◊〉_d ordinary_a matter_n that_o must_v hinder_v a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n from_o exercise_v 〈…〉_z â—â—â—â—diction_n within_o themselves_o no_o more_o than_o a_o church_n that_o live_v alone_o 〈…〉_z power_n be_v ordinary_a in_o they_o both_o for_o if_o it_o be_v so_o in_o they_o both_o in_o the_o one_o as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o other_o i_o know_v not_o why_o any_o small_a or_o ordinary_a matter_n shall_v hinder_v the_o one_o church_n any_o more_o than_o the_o other_o from_o the_o use_n and_o exercise_v of_o such_o entire_a power_n if_o we_o say_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n be_v extraordinary_a though_o in_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o it_o be_v ordinary_a beside_o that_o such_o a_o say_n sound_v harsh_o and_o seem_v very_o improbable_a we_o shall_v by_o this_o mean_n make_v case_n extraordinary_a to_o be_v very_o frequent_a &_o usual_a in_o as_o much_o as_o all_o man_n know_v it_o be_v very_o usual_a for_o congregationall_a church_n to_o have_v neighbour_n and_o so_o if_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n be_v extraordinary_a it_o will_v follow_v that_o extraorninary_a power_n be_v very_o usual_a and_o frequent_a so_o that_o inconvenience_n on_o each_o side_n do_v seem_v inevitable_o to_o follow_v against_o our_o brother_n cause_n upon_o this_o which_o here_o he_o affirm_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o be_v not_o extraordinary_a but_o let_v we_o here_o his_o reason_n in_o the_o subsequent_a word_n why_o this_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o be_v not_o extraordinary_a for_o it_o flow_v say_v he_o continual_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n and_o i_o suppose_v he_o must_v mean_v this_o of_o jurisdiction_n entire_a and_o complete_a for_o of_o this_o be_v the_o question_n and_o a_o few_o line_n afore_o he_o express_o call_v it_o entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n whole_a and_o entire_a within_o themselves_o now_o if_o this_o be_v true_a which_o here_o be_v say_v as_o for_o my_o part_n i_o conceive_v no_o other_o of_o it_o that_o it_o flow_v connatural_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o exercise_v entire_a jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o a_o church_n that_o have_v none_o must_v have_v this_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n since_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v agree_v to_o the_o one_o as_o well_o as_o to_o the_o other_o to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o to_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o our_o author_n tell_v we_o page_n 302._o that_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o island_n be_v a_o church_n proper_o so_o call_v and_o have_v the_o essential_a note_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n agree_v to_o it_o and_o want_v nothing_o of_o the_o be_v and_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o if_o this_o be_v true_a of_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o shall_v we_o think_v it_o be_v not_o true_a of_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n do_v the_o accession_n of_o neighbour_n to_o a_o congregation_n take_v away_o from_o such_o a_o congregation_n the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n which_o it_o have_v before_o i_o conceive_v none_o will_v so_o say_v and_o if_o every_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n may_v exercise_v entire_a jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n as_o our_o brother_n
necessity_n will_v warrant_v a_o man_n to_o celebrate_v the_o lord_n supper_n without_o a_o call_n from_o the_o church_n which_o two_o saying_n for_o aught_o i_o perceive_v do_v not_o agree_v for_o in_o the_o one_o it_o be_v affirm_v that_o if_o they_o may_v exercise_v discipline_n and_o censure_n they_o may_v by_o the_o like_a reason_n administer_v sacrament_n and_o the_o other_o say_v they_o may_v exercise_v discipline_n and_o censure_n and_o yet_o may_v not_o administer_v sacrament_n and_o yet_o both_o the_o say_n be_v express_v by_o the_o same_o author_n pen._n chap._n xi_o whether_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v immediate_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v not_o agree_v to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v none_o and_o whether_o otherwise_o neighbour_a church_n be_v not_o a_o loss_n and_o whether_o pretence_n of_o maladministration_n be_v a_o sufficient_a reason_n for_o neighbour_a church_n to_o deprive_v a_o congregation_n of_o its_o power_n the_o next_o place_n where_o i_o find_v mr._n rutherford_n deal_v with_o the_o answer_n be_v in_o his_o page_n 455._o where_o he_o bring_v in_o these_o word_n under_o mr._n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o viz._n if_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v immediate_o and_o necessary_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o a_o congregation_n be_v essential_o a_o church_n than_o this_o power_n agree_v to_o all_o church_n whether_o consociate_v or_o not_o consociate_v and_o without_o respect_n of_o what_o neighbour_n they_o have_v whether_o many_o or_o few_o whether_o any_o or_o none_o second_o a_o congregation_n itself_o alone_o can_v have_v sole_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o then_o be_v deprive_v of_o it_o when_o god_n send_v neighbour_n for_o then_o neighbour_a church_n which_o be_v give_v for_o help_n shall_v be_v give_v for_o loss_n the_o contrary_a whereof_o ames_n say_v no._n do_v synod_n say_v he_o constitute_v a_o new_a form_n of_o a_o church_n thus_o far_o mr._n rutherford_n who_o in_o his_o margin_n allege_v mr._n tompson_n and_o i_o 16._o pag._n 4_o 5._o answ_n in_o one_o of_o these_o page_n of_o the_o answer_n viz._n p._n 5._o there_o be_v nothing_o at_o all_o to_o be_v find_v that_o look_n towards_o such_o a_o purpose_n as_o our_o brother_n have_v in_o hand_n and_o therefore_o this_o page_n shall_v not_o have_v be_v here_o allege_v the_o word_n of_o dr._n ames_n be_v more_o imperfect_o cite_v by_o our_o brother_n than_o they_o be_v allege_v in_o the_o answer_n for_o the_o answer_n allege_v they_o thus_o out_o of_o medulla_n theol._n lib._n 1._o chapter_n 3._o sect_n 27._o that_o the_o combination_n of_o church_n into_o class_n and_o synod_n do_v neither_o constitute_v a_o new_a form_n of_o a_o church_n nor_o ought_v by_o any_o mean_n to_o take_v away_o or_o impayer_n that_o liberty_n and_o power_n which_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o his_o church_n since_o it_o serve_v only_o for_o the_o direct_n and_o further_a of_o the_o same_o whereas_o our_o brother_n express_v only_o those_o first_o word_n that_o synod_n do_v not_o constitute_v a_o new_a form_n of_o a_o church_n but_o all_o the_o rest_n wherein_o the_o chief_a strength_n of_o dr._n ames_n his_o testimony_n do_v lie_v they_o he_o do_v whole_o omit_v and_o leave_v out_o he_o also_o leave_v out_o the_o assent_n which_o be_v give_v by_o mr._n paget_n to_o this_o testimony_n of_o dr._n ames_n which_o assent_n as_o it_o be_v express_v in_o his_o defence_n p._n 107._o in_o these_o word_n this_o we_o do_v willing_o grant_v be_v also_o in_o the_o â—ame_n word_n allege_v by_o the_o answer_n in_o p._n 4._o but_o this_o be_v whole_o pass_v over_o by_o mr._n rutherford_n in_o silence_n now_o two_o such_o man_n as_o these_o be_v allege_v in_o the_o answer_n as_o plain_o affirm_v that_o the_o combination_n of_o church_n into_o class_n and_o synod_n must_v neither_o tollere_fw-la nor_o minuere_fw-la take_v away_o not_o impair_v or_o diminish_v the_o liberty_n or_o power_n of_o church_n but_o only_o serve_v for_o the_o direct_n and_o further_a of_o the_o same_o and_o the_o one_o of_o they_o be_v the_o chief_a patron_n of_o the_o power_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n it_o be_v some_o marvel_n to_o i_o that_o no_o word_n of_o answer_n be_v vouchsafe_v to_o they_o by_o mr._n rutherford_n but_o that_o their_o word_n be_v thus_o pass_v by_o with_o silence_n and_o the_o name_n of_o one_o of_o they_o not_o so_o much_o as_o mention_v how_o ever_o this_o be_v clear_a that_o he_o that_o gainsay_v the_o answer_n in_o this_o passage_n have_v not_o only_o the_o answer_n but_o also_o the_o reverend_a author_n here_o mention_v to_o be_v against_o he_o but_o let_v we_o come_v to_o consider_v of_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o answer_n which_o he_o subjoin_v in_o these_o word_n viz._n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o island_n ergo_fw-la a_o total_a and_o complete_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n or_o congregation_n consociate_v it_o follow_v no_o way_n answ_n i_o desire_v the_o reason_n may_v be_v lay_v down_o according_a to_o our_o true_a meaning_n therein_o and_o in_o its_o full_a strength_n and_o then_o the_o former_a part_n thereof_o must_v not_o only_o speak_v of_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n that_o want_v neighbour_n but_o of_o entire_a power_n for_o thereof_o be_v the_o question_n and_o in_o the_o latter_a part_n the_o term_n must_v no_o be_v a_o church_n consociate_v but_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n now_o if_o entire_a power_n and_o jurisdiction_n do_v flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o therefore_o this_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n be_v find_v in_o a_o congregation_n that_o want_v neighbour_n this_o entireness_n of_o power_n muâ—t_v thereupon_o be_v grant_v to_o such_o a_o congregation_n i_o then_o demand_v why_o the_o like_a entireness_n of_o power_n must_v not_o be_v grant_v as_o well_o to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n since_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n be_v find_v in_o this_o congregation_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o other_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v either_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n must_v be_v deny_v to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n or_o else_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n must_v be_v grant_v to_o such_o a_o congregation_n risibility_n and_o power_n of_o reason_n flow_v immediate_o and_o necessary_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o man_n and_o power_n to_o defend_v itself_o and_o purge_v out_o excrement_n flow_v in_o like_a sort_n from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o humane_a body_n and_o power_n to_o govern_v itself_o with_o family_n government_n flow_v in_o like_a sort_n from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o family_n therefore_o we_o must_v not_o grant_v these_o power_n to_o be_v entire_a in_o such_o a_o man_n such_o a_o body_n or_o such_o a_o family_n as_o be_v alone_o and_o deny_v the_o same_o to_o one_o that_o have_v neighbour_n but_o must_v grant_v they_o alike_o unto_o all_o because_o this_o power_n flow_v from_o their_o very_a essence_n which_o be_v as_o true_o find_v in_o such_o as_o have_v neighbour_n as_o it_o be_v in_o those_o that_o be_v alone_o and_o the_o like_a may_v be_v say_v in_o other_o case_n and_o why_o it_o shall_v be_v otherwise_o in_o a_o congregationall_a church_n that_o the_o power_n of_o the_o jurisdiction_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o such_o a_o church_n shall_v therefore_o be_v entire_a in_o such_o a_o congregation_n as_o be_v alone_o in_o a_o island_n and_o yet_o not_o entire_a in_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n though_o this_o congregation_n have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n as_o well_o as_o the_o other_o why_o these_o congregation_n i_o say_v shall_v thus_o great_o differ_v in_o their_o power_n and_o yet_o be_v alike_o in_o their_o essence_n from_o whence_o their_o power_n do_v flow_v for_o my_o part_n i_o yet_o do_v not_o understand_v the_o reason_n nor_o do_v that_o satisfy_v which_o mr._n rutherford_n here_o allege_v that_o one_o pastor_n in_o a_o congregation_n have_v as_o a_o pastor_n power_n to_o rebuke_v sin_n and_o to_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n and_o yet_o when_o three_o pastor_n be_v add_v to_o help_v he_o he_o have_v not_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o rebuke_v sin_n and_o the_o sole_a and_o entire_a power_n to_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n but_o these_o three_o pastor_n have_v power_n with_o he_o this_o i_o conceive_v do_v not_o help_v the_o matter_n at_o all_o for_o though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o these_o three_o pastor_n be_v add_v to_o the_o first_o have_v each_o of_o they_o the_o like_a power_n as_o the_o first_o have_v yet_o the_o power_n of_o the_o
first_o for_o the_o performance_n of_o these_o thing_n mention_v be_v as_o compleâ—t_v in_o he_o notwithstanding_o this_o addition_n as_o it_o be_v before_o and_o not_o any_o whit_n abate_v nor_o impair_v thereby_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o matter_n of_o order_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o pastor_n may_v be_v sufficient_o and_o complete_o perform_v by_o one_o pastor_n single_o which_o act_v of_o jurisdiction_n can_v mr._n rutherford_n his_o own_o word_n in_o this_o case_n be_v these_o viz._n a_o single_a pastor_n may_v ministerial_o give_v out_o commandment_n in_o the_o authority_n of_o christ_n but_o he_o can_v himself_o censure_n or_o excommunicate_v the_o contravener_n of_o those_o commandment_n due_a right_n page_n 387._o and_o again_o page_n 387_o 388_o it_o be_v proper_a be_v act_n of_o jurisdiction_n ecclesiastical_a that_o they_o can_v be_v exercise_v by_o one_o alone_a but_o must_v be_v exercise_v by_o a_o society_n but_o a_o pastor_n as_o a_o pastor_n himself_o alone_o without_o any_o collateral_o join_v with_o he_o exercise_v his_o pastoral_n act_n of_o preach_v and_o administer_a the_o sacrament_n now_o if_o a_o pastor_n as_o a_o pastor_n himself_o alone_o without_o any_o collatteral_o join_v with_o he_o may_v thus_o exercise_v his_o pastoral_n act_n than_o indeed_o the_o access_n or_o addition_n of_o other_o pastor_n be_v not_o at_o all_o destructive_a of_o his_o pastoral_a power_n but_o he_o still_o retain_v the_o same_o as_o complete_a and_o perfect_a as_o before_o because_o he_o do_v these_o act_n as_o a_o pastor_n and_o remain_v a_o pastor_n still_o but_o how_o this_o example_n and_o instance_n can_v any_o thing_n further_o mr._n ruthâ—rford_n his_o purpose_n i_o do_v not_o understand_v for_o his_o intention_n be_v to_o make_v good_a that_o a_o congregation_n may_v have_v entire_a power_n when_o it_o be_v alone_o aâ—d_v yet_o not_o so_o when_o other_o congregation_n do_v arise_v and_o for_o the_o consume_n of_o this_o he_o bring_v this_o instance_n and_o example_n from_o a_o pastor_n that_o have_v a_o pastoral_a power_n afore_o other_o pastor_n be_v add_v who_o by_o the_o addition_n of_o other_o have_v no_o less_o power_n than_o afore_o which_o example_n i_o conceive_v rather_o make_v against_o he_o then_o for_o he_o for_o say_v he_o page_z 456._o their_o pastoral_a power_n add_v to_o he_o be_v cumulative_a and_o auxiliary_a but_o not_o privative_a or_o destructive_a of_o his_o pastoral_a power_n and_o therefore_o that_o the_o first_o pastor_n suffer_v loss_n by_o the_o addition_n of_o these_o three_o to_o he_o who_o say_v he_o will_v say_v this_o answ_n i_o know_v none_o that_o will_v say_v it_o but_o if_o their_o power_n be_v cumulative_a and_o auxiliary_a to_o his_o pastoral_a power_n and_o no_o way_n privative_a or_o destructive_a thereof_o then_o what_o power_n he_o have_v afore_o they_o be_v add_v the_o same_o he_o have_v still_o in_o as_o great_a measure_n as_o former_o and_o so_o his_o pastoral_n act_n be_v as_o perfect_v and_o valid_a as_o they_o be_v before_o now_o let_v the_o same_o be_v grant_v to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n congregation_n add_v and_o we_o have_v what_o we_o demand_v and_o if_o this_o be_v not_o grant_v then_o though_o the_o power_n of_o those_o other_o pastor_n be_v cumulative_a and_o auxiliary_a to_o the_o other_o pastor_n yet_o the_o power_n of_o those_o other_o congregation_n seem_v not_o so_o to_o the_o former_a congregation_n but_o rather_o privative_a or_o destructive_a of_o its_o power_n and_o then_o how_o can_v this_o example_n confirm_v our_o brother_n purpose_n or_o how_o can_v it_o be_v avoid_v but_o the_o example_n which_o he_o produce_v do_v make_v against_o himself_o sure_o if_o the_o power_n of_o these_o other_o pastor_n be_v not_o destructive_a to_o the_o former_a pastor_n power_n but_o auxiliary_a thereto_o so_o that_o what_o power_n he_o have_v before_o the_o same_o he_o retain_v still_o and_o in_o the_o same_o measure_n than_o it_o must_v be_v so_o likewise_o in_o a_o congregation_n when_o neighbour_n congregation_n be_v add_v or_o else_o this_o example_n will_v not_o suit_n but_o make_v the_o example_n to_o agree_v and_o our_o cause_n be_v advantage_v thereby_o our_o brethren_n do_v conceive_v the_o power_n of_o congregation_n in_o its_o kind_n and_o essence_n to_o be_v monarchical_a so_o as_o if_o any_o power_n from_o consociate_v congregation_n be_v add_v thereunto_o the_o congregation_n power_n monarchical_a be_v diminish_v and_o the_o essence_n of_o it_o change_v answ_n the_o power_n of_o congregation_n we_o â—old_a to_o be_v ministerial_a as_o be_v delegated_a from_o christ_n jesus_n and_o to_o be_v exercise_v according_a to_o his_o appointment_n and_o in_o he_o alone_o and_o in_o no_o other_o do_v we_o place_v this_o monarchical_a power_n according_a to_o what_o the_o holy_a ghost_n witness_v that_o there_o be_v difference_n of_o administration_n but_o the_o same_o lord_n 1_o cor._n 12._o 5._o and_o though_o our_o brother_n be_v please_v to_o put_v this_o upon_o we_o that_o we_o conceive_v the_o power_n of_o congregation_n to_o be_v monarchical_a yet_o in_o truth_n the_o same_o be_v far_o from_o we_o nor_o do_v i_o think_v that_o so_o much_o as_o one_o of_o we_o can_v be_v name_v that_o at_o any_o time_n have_v so_o speak_v nor_o do_v such_o a_o thing_n follow_v from_o any_o thing_n deliver_v by_o we_o concern_v the_o power_n of_o congregation_n for_o as_o for_o that_o which_o here_o he_o intimate_v and_o elsewhere_o express_v more_o plain_o so_o that_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o congregation_n be_v close_o make_v void_a or_o destroy_v by_o that_o power_n which_o some_o ascribe_v unto_o class_n if_o this_o be_v hold_v by_o we_o do_v it_o thence_o follow_v that_o we_o hold_v the_o power_n of_o congregation_n to_o be_v monarchicalâ—â—_n it_o follow_v not_o at_o all_o for_o then_o by_o the_o like_a reason_n i_o can_v prove_v that_o himself_o dâ—th_v hold_v a_o power_n monarchical_a in_o the_o universal_a or_o provincial_n church_n for_o he_o express_o affirm_v page_n 337._o that_o the_o pope_n power_n destroy_v the_o power_n of_o the_o church_n universal_a and_o the_o prelate_n power_n destroy_v the_o power_n of_o the_o church_n whereof_o he_o be_v pretend_v pastor_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v he_o do_v not_o hold_v a_o monarchical_a power_n in_o the_o one_o church_n nor_o in_o the_o other_o nor_o in_o any_o church_n or_o church_n but_o in_o christ_n alone_o nor_o can_v the_o same_o be_v true_o conclude_v upon_o that_o which_o he_o affirm_v of_o destroy_v the_o power_n of_o church_n by_o the_o power_n of_o the_o pope_n and_o prelate_n and_o if_o not_o how_o then_o can_v any_o man_n conclude_v against_o we_o that_o we_o hold_v a_o monarchical_a power_n in_o congregation_n though_o we_o shall_v hold_v that_o the_o power_n of_o congregation_n be_v destroy_v or_o diminish_v by_o that_o power_n which_o some_o will_v give_v unto_o classesâ—_n if_o our_o prâ—mises_n will_v warrant_v he_o to_o fasten_v such_o a_o tenent_n upon_o we_o his_o own_o will_v give_v a_o warrant_n for_o the_o like_a against_o himself_o and_o if_o the_o ground_n be_v insufficient_a to_o bear_v such_o a_o conclusion_n against_o he_o as_o i_o confess_v it_o be_v i_o know_v no_o sufficient_a ground_n why_o the_o same_o shall_v be_v impute_v unto_o we_o complete_a and_o enâ—ire_a power_n to_o rule_v both_o the_o congregation_n and_o member_n of_o consociate_v church_n in_o so_o far_o as_o they_o do_v keep_v communion_n with_o that_o congregation_n and_o may_v either_o edify_v or_o scandalize_v they_o flow_v not_o immeaiate_o and_o necessary_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o every_o congregation_n even_o in_o remote_a land_n not_o consociate_v with_o other_o that_o we_o never_o say_v answer_n indeed_o it_o be_v a_o absurd_a and_o gross_a say_n for_o any_o man_n to_o say_v that_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o remote_a island_n not_o consociate_v with_o other_o shall_v have_v power_n yea_o complete_a and_o entire_a power_n to_o rule_v the_o congregation_n and_o member_n of_o church_n consociate_v and_o that_o this_o shall_v flow_v immediate_o and_o necessary_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o such_o a_o congregation_n but_o there_o be_v no_o need_n that_o our_o brother_n shall_v clear_v himself_o from_o this_o say_n for_o i_o know_v none_o that_o impute_v it_o to_o he_o nevertheless_o the_o say_n here_o â—â—joyned_v can_v be_v deny_v for_o they_o be_v his_o own_o verbâ—tiâ—â—_n first_o the_o ordinary_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n because_o of_o near_a vicinity_n and_o contiguity_n of_o member_n be_v give_v by_o jesus_n christ_n to_o one_o congregation_n in_o a_o isle_n because_o that_o church_n be_v a_o church_n proper_o so_o call_v it_o be_v a_o little_a city_n and_o a_o little_a kingdom_n of_o jesus_n christ_n have_v within_o itself_o power_n of_o the_o â—ord_n and_o sacrament_n
his_o page_n 482._o allege_v mr._n tompson_n and_o i_o pag._n 16_o 17._o he_o report_v we_o to_o say_v that_o though_o some_o have_v appeal_v as_o luther_n and_o cranmer_n from_o the_o pope_n to_o a_o general_a council_n yet_o not_o from_o a_o congregation_n to_o a_o general_a council_n answ_n as_o he_o one_o of_o these_o page_n have_v nothing_o at_o all_o concern_v this_o matter_n and_o therefore_o may_v well_o have_v be_v spare_v so_o neither_o of_o they_o both_o do_v make_v any_o mention_n of_o luther_n either_o of_o one_o purpose_n or_o other_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v some_o marvel_n why_o he_o shall_v be_v mention_v as_o thus_o speak_v of_o by_o we_o who_o do_v not_o speak_v of_o he_o at_o all_o so_o much_o as_o one_o word_n for_o any_o purpose_n whatsoever_o nor_o do_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o word_n of_o appeal_n from_o a_o congregation_n to_o a_o general_a council_n agree_v with_o we_o as_o we_o have_v set_v they_o down_o in_o the_o 16._o page_n allege_v and_o therefore_o that_o our_o mind_n and_o meaning_n may_v appear_v let_v i_o relate_v our_o own_o word_n which_o be_v these_o how_o this_o example_n sc_n of_o cramners_n appeal_n to_o council_n relate_v by_o mr._n fox_n do_v suit_n the_o present_a question_n we_o do_v not_o understand_v for_o his_o appeal_n be_v not_o from_o a_o particular_a congregation_n but_o from_o the_o pope_n nor_o be_v it_o from_o a_o synod_n but_o to_o the_o next_o general_a council_n which_o from_o that_o day_n to_o this_o have_v not_o yet_o be_v assemble_v nor_o call_v if_o we_o must_v hold_v a_o necessity_n of_o appeal_n to_o such_o a_o judicatory_a as_o cranmer_n appeal_v unto_o than_o the_o supremacy_n of_o synod_n provincial_a and_o national_a be_v utter_o take_v away_o these_o be_v our_o word_n in_o the_o place_n allege_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n now_o what_o do_v he_o answer_v thereto_o in_o matter_n doctrinal_a say_v he_o some_o as_o luther_n and_o other_o have_v just_o appeal_v from_o congregation_n to_o a_o general_a council_n though_o luther_n and_o cranmer_n do_v it_o not_o answ_n say_v it_o be_v true_a that_o cranmer_n do_v it_o not_o yet_o for_o luther_n how_o can_v it_o be_v that_o he_o shall_v be_v a_o instance_n both_o of_o such_o as_o do_v it_o not_o and_o of_o such_o as_o do_v it_o for_o luther_n and_o other_o have_v just_o do_v it_o and_o yet_o luther_n and_o cranmer_n be_v two_o of_o they_o that_o do_v it_o not_o these_o be_v saying_n which_o seem_v not_o to_o agree_v again_o if_o luther_n do_v so_o appeal_v why_o be_v no_o proof_n allege_v for_o confirmation_n of_o what_o here_o be_v affirm_v which_o if_o there_o have_v be_v we_o may_v have_v consider_v thereof_o but_o since_o there_o be_v not_o we_o may_v be_v allow_v to_o forbear_v assent_n till_o that_o which_o be_v here_o naked_o affirm_v be_v further_o strengthen_v by_o some_o proof_n or_o other_o to_o make_v it_o good_a last_o if_o luther_n or_o other_o have_v just_o appeal_v from_o a_o congregation_n to_o a_o general_a council_n then_o why_o will_v it_o not_o be_v lawful_a for_o other_o upon_o like_a occasion_n to_o do_v the_o like_a and_o if_o so_o then_o as_o we_o argue_v in_o the_o answer_n the_o supremacy_n of_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_n presbytery_n be_v utter_o take_v away_o and_o so_o by_o this_o mean_n cause_n and_o controversy_n may_v still_o be_v depend_v and_o never_o come_v to_o be_v determine_v so_o long_o as_o this_o world_n shall_v endure_v which_o whether_o it_o be_v agreeable_a to_o the_o wisdom_n of_o christ_n and_o good_a of_o his_o people_n let_v the_o wise_a judge_n though_o very_o i_o profess_v i_o can_v see_v what_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n can_v be_v in_o a_o general_a council_n there_o may_v be_v some_o mere_o doctrinal_a power_n if_o such_o a_o council_n can_v be_v have_v and_o that_o be_v all_o answ_n for_o my_o part_n i_o be_o altogether_o of_o the_o same_o mind_n but_o here_o i_o have_v a_o quere_z or_o two_o to_o propose_v to_o our_o reverend_a brother_n serious_a consideration_n first_o of_o all_o how_o this_o passage_n do_v agree_v with_o that_o which_o himself_o have_v write_v pag._n 387._o where_o he_o say_v it_o may_v be_v make_v good_a that_o a_o power_n dogmatic_a be_v not_o different_a in_o nature_n from_o a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o that_o we_o read_v not_o of_o any_o society_n which_o have_v power_n to_o meet_v to_o make_v law_n and_o decree_n which_o have_v not_o power_n also_o to_o back_v their_o decree_n with_o punishment_n yea_o he_o say_v further_a that_o if_o the_o jewish_a synodry_n may_v meet_v to_o declare_v judicial_o what_o be_v god_n law_n in_o point_n of_o conscience_n and_o what_o not_o far_o more_o may_v they_o punish_v contravener_n of_o the_o law_n for_o anomothetick_a power_n in_o a_o society_n which_o be_v the_o great_a power_n and_o be_v in_o the_o fountain_n must_v presuppose_v in_o the_o society_n 〈◊〉_d lesser_a power_n which_o be_v to_o punish_v anomothetick_a power_n ministerial_a can_v want_v a_o power_n of_o censure_v so_o that_o whereto_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n he_o say_v there_o may_v be_v in_o a_o general_a council_n some_o 〈◊〉_d doctrinal_a power_n without_o any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_n in_o this_o other_o place_n he_o say_v these_o power_n do_v not_o differ_v in_o nature_n nor_o can_v the_o former_a be_v without_o the_o latter_a but_o do_v always_o presuppose_v the_o same_o as_o that_o which_o be_v lesser_a and_o which_o it_o can_v want_v now_o how_o these_o thing_n do_v agree_v i_o be_o not_o able_a to_o understand_v next_o of_o all_o how_o do_v this_o passage_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n agree_v with_o that_o which_o be_v write_v p._n 308_o 309._o where_o he_o say_v it_o be_v by_o accident_n and_o not_o through_o want_n of_o inate_a and_o intrinsical_v power_n that_o the_o court_n of_o a_o catholic_n council_n can_v not_o in_o a_o ordinary_a and_o constant_a way_n exercise_v the_o power_n which_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o she_o and_o what_o that_o power_n be_v he_o express_v in_o two_o or_o three_o line_n proceed_v viz._n a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o excommunicate_v and_o relax_v from_o excommunication_n even_o national_a church_n if_o the_o lord_n shall_v be_v please_v to_o give_v the_o christian_a church_n a_o general_a council_n this_o day_n may_v lawful_o in_o a_o jurisdictiall_a way_n declare_v the_o faction_n of_o the_o romish_a pretend_v catholic_n to_o be_v mystical_a babylon_n which_o in_o excommunication_n in_o the_o essence_n and_o substance_n of_o the_o act_n and_o again_o this_o of_o our_o saviour_n tell_v the_o church_n be_v necessary_o to_o be_v apply_v to_o all_o church_n and_o court_n of_o christ_n even_o to_o a_o general_a council_n and_o in_o page_n 304._o he_o tell_v in_o that_o a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n though_o he_o call_v it_o extraordinary_a and_o remote_a and_o which_o be_v but_o rare_o to_o be_v put_v forth_o in_o act_n be_v give_v to_o the_o catholic_n visible_a presbytery_n of_o the_o whole_a catholic_n visible_a church_n in_o all_o which_o place_n he_o plain_o affirm_v there_o be_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n in_o a_o general_a council_n which_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n he_o do_v as_o plain_o deny_v three_o if_o there_o be_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n in_o a_o general_a council_n then_o how_o shall_v it_o appear_v that_o there_o be_v such_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o the_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_n presbytery_n which_o be_v far_o less_o yea_o and_o that_o there_o be_v in_o these_o presbytery_n a_o power_n independent_a and_o supreme_a without_o appeal_n to_o any_o other_o for_o such_o power_n there_o must_v be_v in_o some_o of_o they_o if_o there_o be_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o at_o all_o since_o we_o be_v tell_v there_o be_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o the_o general_a council_n to_o appeal_v unto_o now_o how_o shall_v it_o appear_v that_o any_o such_o independent_a supreme_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v give_v to_o any_o of_o those_o presbytery_n where_o be_v the_o text_n of_o scripture_n that_o speak_v of_o such_o power_n for_o our_o part_n we_o know_v of_o none_o but_o do_v still_o think_v that_o this_o power_n be_v place_v by_o christ_n in_o a_o single_a congregation_n and_o its_o presbytery_n and_o be_v the_o rather_o strengthen_v in_o this_o apprehension_n for_o that_o the_o reason_n which_o be_v wont_a to_o be_v give_v against_o the_o congregation_n power_n and_o wherein_o our_o brethren_n be_v wont_a to_o place_v their_o great_a strength_n sc_n that_o appeal_n be_v juris_fw-la naturalis_fw-la and_o that_o defect_n in_o the_o part_n be_v to_o be_v supply_v
arise_v offence_n between_o congregation_n there_o must_v be_v a_o church_n of_o synod_n above_o congregation_n and_o those_o synod_n must_v judge_v and_o redress_v those_o offence_n to_o this_o we_o there_o answer_v that_o all_o offence_n do_v not_o fall_v within_o the_o compass_n of_o this_o rule_n and_o remedy_n tell_v the_o church_n and_o so_o no_o dependency_n of_o congregation_n upon_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o synod_n can_v be_v sufficient_o prove_v by_o this_o text_n first_o of_o all_o we_o instance_n in_o the_o offence_n of_o national_a church_n of_o which_o we_o suppose_v our_o brother_n will_v not_o say_v that_o they_o fall_v within_o the_o compass_n of_o our_o saviour_n rule_n tell_v the_o church_n for_o then_o the_o independency_n of_o national_a church_n and_o national_a synod_n be_v overthrow_v as_o well_o as_o the_o congregation_n which_o we_o suppose_v he_o will_v not_o grant_v and_o yet_o it_o can_v be_v avoid_v if_o his_o reason_n for_o the_o dependency_n of_o congregation_n upon_o synod_n do_v stand_v firm_a and_o next_o of_o all_o we_o instance_n in_o the_o offence_n of_o turk_n and_o indian_n and_o other_o heathen_n who_o may_v offend_v christian_n and_o yet_o be_v not_o to_o be_v complain_v of_o to_o the_o church_n the_o apostle_n express_o teach_v the_o contrary_a 1_o col._n 5._o this_o be_v the_o scope_n of_o that_o passage_n in_o the_o answer_n which_o here_o mr._n rutherford_n except_v against_o let_v we_o now_o hear_v what_o it_o be_v which_o he_o say_v thereto_o because_o say_v he_o ordinary_a communion_n fail_v when_o you_o go_v high_o than_o a_o national_a church_n and_o christ_n way_n suppose_v art_n ordinary_a communion_n as_o be_v clear_a if_o thy_o brother_n offend_v &c_n &c_n therefore_o i_o deny_v that_o this_o remedy_n be_v needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_a church_n answ_n 1._o if_o this_o remedy_n be_v not_o needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_a than_o the_o rule_n do_v not_o universal_o hold_v true_a that_o the_o remedy_n complaint_n to_o the_o church_n must_v be_v as_o large_a as_o the_o malady_n offence_n and_o so_o our_o purpose_n be_v gain_v for_o our_o purpose_n in_o that_o place_n be_v to_o prove_v this_o very_a thing_n by_o this_o same_o instance_n of_o the_o offence_n of_o a_o national_a church_n wherein_o mr._n rutherford_n we_o see_v do_v come_v over_o to_o we_o and_o affirm_v the_o same_o that_o we_o do_v to_o what_o end_n therefore_o be_v it_o to_o make_v show_n of_o remove_v or_o weaken_v what_o he_o have_v say_v since_o when_o it_o come_v to_o the_o issue_n he_o plain_o concur_v with_o we_o for_o by_o this_o mean_v our_o tenant_n be_v not_o confute_v but_o confirm_v with_o his_o attest_v thereto_o 2._o though_o here_o he_o say_v this_o remedy_n be_v not_o needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_a yet_o i_o be_o mistake_v if_o elsewhere_o he_o speak_v not_o otherwise_o for_o in_o pag._n 311._o prepound_v this_o objection_n viz._n christ_n here_o speak_v of_o a_o present_a and_o constant_a removal_n of_o scandal_n a_o catholic_a council_n of_o the_o whole_a visible_a church_n be_v far_o of_o and_o can_v be_v have_v he_o return_v this_o for_o answer_v thereto_o that_o christ_n say_v he_o speak_v of_o a_o present_a and_o constant_a remedy_n only_o and_o of_o no_o remedy_n against_o the_o scandal_n of_o whole_a church_n be_v deny_v he_o speak_v of_o all_o remedye_n to_o gain_v any_o offender_n person_n or_o church_n and_o in_o pag._n 322._o he_o say_v christ_n give_v a_o instance_n only_o in_o a_o offend_a brother_n but_o the_o doctrine_n be_v for_o the_o cure_n of_o a_o offend_a church_n also_o and_o for_o all_o person_n to_o be_v gain_v thou_o have_v gain_v thy_o brother_n and_o say_v he_o we_o be_v to_o gain_v church_n as_o we_o be_v not_o to_o offend_v church_n 1_o cor._n 10._o 32._o again_o in_o his_o second_n pag._n 332._o speak_v of_o five_o sort_n of_o synod_n of_o which_o he_o call_v the_o five_o the_o general_a and_o oecuminick_n council_n he_o say_v that_o all_o these_o differ_v not_o in_o essence_n but_o in_o degree_n and_o what_o word_n of_o god_n as_o matth_n 18._o 16_o 17._o prove_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o one_o be_v for_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o all_o the_o five_o sort_n of_o synod_n last_o nothing_o can_v be_v more_o plain_a than_o those_o word_n pag._n 39_o this_o of_o our_o saviour_n tell_v the_o church_n be_v necessary_o to_o be_v apply_v to_o all_o church_n and_o court_n of_o christ_n even_o to_o a_o catholic_a council_n the_o same_o be_v also_o to_o be_v see_v in_o the_o peaceable_a plea_n p._n 86._o in_o all_o which_o saying_n he_o plain_o understand_v the_o text_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n to_o speak_v of_o a_o remedy_n for_o all_o that_o be_v to_o be_v gain_v yea_o a_o remedy_n for_o the_o offence_n of_o all_o person_n and_o church_n that_o may_v give_v offence_n which_o church_n he_o say_v may_v do_v and_o express_o affirm_v that_o it_o be_v to_o be_v apply_v to_o general_a counsel_n and_o that_o necessary_o and_o how_o these_o thing_n do_v agree_v with_o the_o place_n in_o hind_n where_o he_o say_v he_o deny_v the_o remedy_n be_v needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_a let_v the_o wise_a and_o himself_o judge_v for_o for_o my_o part_n except_o there_o be_v some_o difference_n between_o necessary_a and_o needful_a the_o say_n to_o i_o do_v seem_v inconsistent_a one_o affirm_v the_o place_n be_v necessary_o to_o be_v apply_v to_o all_o church_n and_o court_n of_o christ_n even_o to_o general_a counsel_n and_o the_o other_o deny_v that_o the_o remedy_n there_o mention_v be_v needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_a 2._o christ_n remedy_n say_v he_o be_v a_o church_n remedy_n for_o offence_n among_o the_o brethren_n and_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o indian_n be_v nomember_v of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o so_o be_v without_o they_o can_v be_v judge_v 1_o cor._n 5._o 12._o answ_n that_o indian_n can_v be_v judge_v by_o the_o church_n be_v very_o true_a but_o nothing_o against_o we_o for_o the_o very_a same_o that_o here_o be_v say_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n be_v say_v by_o we_o before_o in_o the_o place_n which_o himself_o do_v allege_v where_o we_o also_o bring_v the_o very_a same_o text_n of_o scripture_n which_o himself_o do_v bring_v now_o why_o shall_v these_o thing_n be_v bring_v as_o a_o confutation_n of_o we_o which_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o reception_n of_o that_o which_o we_o have_v deliver_v afore_o as_o our_o own_o judgement_n may_v not_o his_o reader_n be_v induce_v hereby_o to_o think_v that_o we_o have_v speak_v otherwise_o but_o to_o let_v this_o pass_v if_o indian_n can_v be_v judge_v by_o the_o church_n than_o still_o our_o purpose_n be_v gain_v for_o by_o this_o it_o appear_v that_o a_o offence_n may_v be_v commit_v where_o christ_n remedy_n tell_v the_o church_n may_v not_o be_v apply_v for_o the_o redress_n thereof_o and_o so_o that_o universal_a proposition_n christ_n remedy_n be_v as_o large_a as_o the_o malady_n and_o where_o a_o offence_n may_v be_v commit_v there_o to_o tell_v the_o church_n be_v the_o remedy_n for_o the_o redress_n of_o the_o same_o which_o our_o brethren_n do_v lay_v as_o the_o foundation_n on_o which_o to_o build_v the_o jurisdiction_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n the_o universality_n i_o say_v of_o this_o proposition_n be_v utter_o overthrow_v by_o this_o instance_n of_o indian_n and_o so_o that_o scripture_n matth._n 18._o appear_v to_o be_v too_o weak_a a_o bottom_n to_o bear_v the_o building_n which_o our_o brethren_n will_v erect_v upon_o it_o nor_o be_v the_o matter_n much_o amend_v by_o that_o which_o our_o brother_n here_o bring_v for_o the_o help_a and_o clear_v of_o it_o that_o christ_n remedy_n be_v a_o church_n remedy_n for_o offence_n among_o brethren_n member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n for_o let_v this_o be_v grant_v as_o i_o know_v none_o that_o deny_v it_o yet_o still_o the_o question_n remain_v what_o be_v that_o church_n to_o which_o our_o saviour_n here_o give_v power_n to_o remove_v and_o redress_v scandal_n by_o excommunicate_v the_o offender_n we_o conceive_v this_o church_n be_v only_o the_o particular_a congregation_n and_o its_o presbytery_n and_o our_o brethren_n think_v it_o be_v also_o the_o class_n and_o synod_n but_o this_o apprehension_n of_o they_o be_v not_o confirm_v by_o say_v our_o saviour_n remedy_n be_v a_o church_n remedy_n for_o offence_n among_o member_n of_o the_o church_n inasmuch_o as_o the_o member_n of_o a_o national_a church_n as_o such_o be_v member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o our_o brethren_n judgement_n and_o yet_o our_o brother_n hold_v here_o be_v nor_o remedy_n prescribe_v for_o a_o delinquent_n national_a church_n and_o if_o he_o can_v so_o
understand_v this_o church_n remedy_n as_o that_o for_o all_o this_o the_o national_a church_n must_v not_o partake_v thereof_o so_o as_o to_o be_v censure_v and_o excommunicate_v by_o any_o church_n above_o it_o why_o may_v not_o other_o understand_v it_o so_o as_o that_o synod_n and_o class_n yea_o and_o congregation_n too_o be_v exempt_v from_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o church_n for_o my_o part_n i_o know_v no_o reason_n but_o if_o the_o congregation_n be_v liable_a to_o the_o censure_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n by_o this_o scripture_n because_o our_o saviour_n remedy_n be_v a_o church_n remedy_n by_o the_o same_o reason_n the_o class_n and_o synod_n must_v be_v liable_a to_o censure_v also_o yea_o and_o the_o national_a church_n likewise_o because_o this_o reason_n be_v applyable_a to_o all_o these_o as_o well_o as_o to_o the_o congregation_n so_o that_o this_o notion_n of_o a_o church_n remedy_n do_v not_o help_v his_o cause_n at_o all_o nor_o hurt_v we_o any_o more_o than_o it_o hurt_v himself_o if_o this_o reason_n be_v good_a it_o be_v a_o church_n remedy_n therefore_o the_o congregationall_a church_n must_v be_v liable_a to_o censure_v for_o their_o offence_n than_o this_o reason_n be_v as_o good_a it_o be_v a_o church_n remedy_n therefore_o the_o class_n synod_n yea_o and_o the_o national_a church_n must_v be_v liable_a to_o censure_v for_o their_o offence_n but_o this_o latter_a at_o least_o for_o the_o national_a church_n our_o brother_n speak_v against_o and_o therefore_o he_o may_v not_o press_v nor_o urge_v the_o former_a if_o he_o or_o other_o shall_v say_v that_o this_o scripture_n contain_v a_o remedy_n even_o for_o a_o national_a church_n than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o a_o national_a church_n be_v not_o independent_a but_o depend_v upon_o the_o ecumenical_a but_o this_o our_o brother_n can_v say_v unless_o he_o will_v gainsay_v himself_o because_o he_o have_v already_o say_v the_o contrary_a and_o serious_o protest_v it_o wâ—â—h_v a_o very_o that_o very_o be_v can_v see_v what_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n can_v be_v in_o a_o general_a council_n only_o a_o mere_a doctrinal_a power_n in_o all_o the_o power_n that_o he_o can_v see_v in_o such_o a_o council_n pag._n 482._o so_o that_o let_v he_o hold_v to_o what_o he_o have_v thus_o serious_o protest_v and_o this_o rule_n of_o christ_n afford_v no_o remedy_n by_o way_n of_o censure_n for_o the_o scandal_n of_o a_o national_a church_n beside_o if_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o a_o general_a council_n be_v establish_v by_o our_o saviour_n in_o this_o or_o other_o scripture_n than_o it_o will_v not_o only_o follow_v that_o the_o independent_a jurisdiction_n of_o national_a church_n yea_o and_o much_o more_o of_o class_n and_o synod_n be_v overthrow_v which_o i_o suppose_v our_o brethren_n will_v not_o grant_v but_o moreover_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o christ_n have_v not_o sufficient_o provide_v church_n remedy_n for_o redress_v scandalis_n of_o church_n member_n the_o reason_n of_o the_o consequence_n be_v because_o all_o other_o jurisdiction_n be_v subordinate_a one_o to_o anâ—ther_n and_o all_o of_o they_o under_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o the_o general_a council_n which_o alone_o be_v supreme_a there_o may_v therefore_o in_o all_o of_o they_o be_v appeal_n from_o the_o inferior_a to_o the_o high_a judicatory_n till_o at_o the_o last_o â—atters_n and_o cause_n be_v transmit_v from_o they_o all_o to_o the_o general_a council_n and_o so_o by_o this_o mean_n matter_n shall_v or_o may_v never_o be_v end_v nor_o scandal_n remedy_v till_o a_o general_a council_n shall_v effect_v the_o same_o which_o general_a counsel_n all_o know_v be_v rare_a and_o difficult_a to_o be_v attainâ—_n 〈◊〉_d and_o therefore_o there_o be_v small_a sufficiency_n in_o our_o saviour_n remedy_n if_o matter_n may_v or_o must_v depend_v till_o general_a counsel_n shall_v be_v assemble_v for_o the_o hear_n and_o determine_v thereof_o and_o may_v not_o be_v end_v sconer_n therefore_o we_o can_v see_v that_o this_o rule_n nor_o any_o other_o establish_v the_o jurisdiction_n of_o general_a couâ—cels_n and_o then_o national_a church_n can_v have_v no_o benefit_n of_o our_o saviour_n remedy_n of_o tell_v the_o church_n no_o more_o than_o the_o church_n which_o be_v congregationall_a and_o so_o whether_o be_v the_o say_n universal_o true_a that_o where_o there_o may_v be_v offence_n commit_v there_o our_o saviour_n remedy_n of_o tell_v the_o church_n may_v be_v apply_v for_o the_o redress_n thereof_o nor_o do_v this_o say_n hold_v be_v narrow_v according_a to_o mr._n rutherford_n mind_n who_o will_v have_v it_o understand_v only_o of_o a_o church_n remedy_n for_o the_o offence_n of_o church_n member_n for_o we_o see_v there_o may_v be_v offence_n in_o church_n according_a to_o our_o brethren_n judgement_n which_o can_v be_v redress_v by_o the_o help_n and_o remedy_n of_o this_o rule_n chap._n xxii_o when_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n be_v a_o profess_a cure_v to_o religion_n whether_o then_o it_o be_v likely_a and_o usual_a that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o people_n be_v sincere_o religious_a and_o whether_o when_o the_o great_a part_n be_v enemy_n with_o their_o magistrate_n it_o be_v then_o the_o duty_n of_o a_o few_o that_o be_v sincere_a to_o assemble_v in_o a_o national_a synod_n and_o there_o to_o enter_v into_o a_o national_a covenant_n and_o also_o to_o enjoin_v the_o same_o unto_o that_o great_a part_n pag_n 483._o we_o say_v that_o if_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n to_o religion_n may_v not_o the_o church_n without_o he_o conveen_v and_o renew_v a_o covenant_n with_o god_n mr._n mather_n and_o mr._n tompsons_n answer_n p._n 29._o that_n if_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n to_o religion_n it_o be_v not_o like_a but_o most_o or_o many_o of_o the_o people_n will_v be_v of_o the_o same_o mind_n regis_fw-la ad_fw-la exemplum_fw-la totus_fw-la and_o then_o the_o 〈◊〉_d in_o the_o land_n with_o not_o be_v able_a to_o bear_v the_o name_n of_o the_o land_n or_o nation_n but_o of_o a_o small_a part_n thereof_o not_o can_v it_o be_v well_o contain_v how_o they_o shall_v assemble_v in_o a_o national_a synod_n for_o that_o or_o any_o other_o purpose_n when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o profess_a enemy_n nor_o do_v god_n require_v it_o at_o their_o hand_n answ_n the_o question_n between_o mr._n hefle_n and_o we_o as_o it_o be_v speak_v to_o by_o we_o in_o this_o passage_n be_v still_o about_o the_o meaning_n of_o our_o saviour_n word_n tell_v the_o church_n which_o will_v plain_o appear_v to_o he_o that_o shall_v look_v upon_o mr._n herles_a treatise_n and_o our_o answer_n and_o compare_v they_o together_o and_o though_o we_o speak_v something_o of_o the_o church_n renew_v a_o a_o covenant_n with_o god_n when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n to_o religion_n yet_o the_o question_n lie_v not_o mere_o so_o and_o no_o further_o but_o first_o this_o church_n be_v call_v the_o land_n or_o the_o whole_a church_n therein_o or_o the_o whole_a number_n of_o believer_n second_o the_o thing_n inquire_v into_o concern_v this_o church_n be_v whether_o they_o have_v not_o power_n to_o enjoin_v a_o solemn_a renewall_n of_o the_o covenant_n in_o answer_v whereto_o we_o first_o of_o all_o say_v that_o in_o case_n the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n to_o religion_n the_o believer_n in_o the_o land_n be_v not_o like_a to_o be_v so_o many_o as_o that_o they_o shall_v bear_v the_o name_n of_o the_o land_n or_o nation_n but_o of_o a_o small_a part_n therein_o second_o that_o in_o such_o case_n it_o be_v not_o like_a they_o can_v have_v such_o liberty_n as_o safe_o to_o meet_v in_o such_o great_a assembly_n as_o national_a synod_n and_o hereupon_o we_o conclude_v that_o renew_n of_o covenant_n and_o enjoin_v the_o same_o in_o national_a synod_n be_v not_o in_o the_o power_n of_o some_o few_o believer_n in_o a_o land_n be_v not_o then_o require_v at_o their_o hand_n this_o be_v say_v for_o clear_v the_o scope_n and_o sum_n of_o that_o passage_n in_o the_o answer_n let_v we_o now_o hear_v what_o mr._n rutherford_n say_v thereto_o this_o say_v he_o be_v a_o weak_a answer_n answ_n sit_v magistrabiter_n will_v it_o not_o do_v well_o first_o to_o disprove_v and_o confute_v and_o then_o to_o censure_v rather_o than_o to_o censure_v first_o but_o if_o it_o be_v so_o weak_a it_o will_v be_v more_o easy_a to_o overthrow_v it_o let_v we_o hear_v therefore_o why_o it_o be_v so_o weak_a the_o christian_n under_o nero_n be_v not_o like_o their_o prince_n and_o it_o be_v not_o like_a but_o sincere_a christian_n will_v be_v sincere_a christian_n and_o profess_v truth_n even_o when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n answ_n and_o what_o of_o this_o do_v this_o strong_o overthrow_v that_o say_n which_o be_v censure_v
for_o so_o weak_a if_o sincere_a christian_n be_v sincere_a christian_n when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n suppose_v as_o bad_a as_o nero_n do_v it_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o in_o such_o time_n the_o sincere_a christian_n will_v be_v so_o many_o in_o number_n as_o to_o bear_v the_o name_n of_o the_o land_n or_o nation_n where_o they_o be_v for_o there_o lie_v the_o question_n and_o that_o it_o be_v not_o like_a to_o be_v otherwise_o i_o suppose_v no_o man_n can_v just_o affirm_v it_o for_o be_v they_o so_o many_o in_o england_n in_o the_o day_n of_o queen_n mary_n be_v they_o so_o many_o in_o scotland_n in_o the_o day_n of_o popish_a prince_n afore_o the_o reformation_n be_v they_o so_o many_o in_o spain_n in_o italy_n in_o turkey_n at_o this_o day_n do_v not_o the_o scripture_n say_v that_o when_o rehoboam_n forsake_v the_o lord_n all_o israel_n do_v the_o same_o with_o he_o 2_o chron._n 12._o 1._o and_o that_o jeroboam_fw-la do_v not_o only_a sin_n but_o make_v israel_n to_o sin_n and_o that_o when_o a_o ruler_n hearken_v to_o lie_n all_o his_o servant_n be_v wicked_a prov._n 29._o vers_fw-la 12._o which_o saying_n and_o many_o more_o that_o may_v be_v allege_v beside_o common_a experience_n do_v abundant_o witness_v that_o when_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n to_o religion_n often_o time_n if_o not_o always_o sincere_a believer_n in_o those_o day_n be_v the_o small_a part_n of_o that_o land_n if_o m._n rutherford_n can_v prove_v this_o apprehension_n weak_a he_o must_v then_o prove_v the_o contradictory_n to_o be_v true_a viz._n that_o when_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n to_o religion_n it_o be_v not_o like_a that_o many_o of_o the_o people_n will_v be_v of_o the_o magistrate_n mind_n but_o contrary_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o land_n will_v be_v sincere_a believer_n though_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n and_o when_o he_o have_v confirm_v this_o position_n which_o strong_a and_o convince_a proof_n he_o may_v then_o more_o free_o take_v his_o liberty_n to_o condemn_v the_o other_o for_o weak_a in_o the_o mean_a time_n i_o think_v it_o be_v weakness_n in_o we_o to_o depart_v from_o this_o apprehension_n without_o some_o better_a ground_n than_o yet_o be_v give_v to_o discover_v the_o weakness_n of_o it_o 2._o say_v he_o if_o your_o meaning_n be_v it_o can_v be_v conceive_v how_o they_o shall_v assemble_v in_o a_o national_a assembly_n when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n because_o it_o be_v not_o safe_a for_o fear_v of_o persecution_n than_o you_o say_v nothing_o to_o the_o argument_n because_o the_o argument_n be_v draw_v from_o a_o duty_n answ_n be_v those_o thing_n duty_n which_o be_v in_o nature_n impossible_a if_o not_o how_o be_v it_o a_o duty_n of_o a_o few_o believer_n in_o a_o land_n for_o when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o profess_a enemy_n i_o do_v still_o conceive_v the_o believer_n in_o that_o land_n to_o be_v but_o few_o a_o small_a part_n of_o the_o land_n how_o be_v it_o a_o duty_n i_o say_v for_o these_o few_o believer_n in_o a_o land_n to_o assemble_v in_o a_o national_a synod_n and_o there_o to_o enjoin_v a_o national_a covenant_n to_o be_v enter_v into_o not_o only_o by_o themselves_o which_o be_v but_o a_o few_o in_o comparison_n but_o also_o by_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o land_n which_o be_v far_o the_o great_a number_n if_o this_o be_v a_o duty_n it_o be_v more_o than_o i_o yet_o understand_v suppose_v it_o be_v their_o duty_n to_o enter_v into_o covenant_n with_o god_n for_o their_o own_o part_n suppose_v also_o it_o be_v the_o duty_n of_o other_o to_o do_v the_o like_a yet_o when_o the_o great_a part_n will_v not_o so_o do_v but_o be_v enemy_n to_o the_o truth_n of_o god_n like_o their_o magistrate_n be_v it_o nevertheless_o a_o duty_n of_o this_o small_a number_n to_o assemble_v in_o a_o national_a synod_n and_o there_o to_o enjoin_v a_o solemn_a covenant_n to_o be_v take_v by_o the_o land_n i_o mean_v not_o only_o by_o themselves_o but_o also_o by_o other_o who_o be_v far_o more_o in_o number_n than_o they_o do_v they_o fall_v short_a of_o their_o duty_n if_o they_o do_v not_o thus_o assemble_v and_o impose_v the_o covenant_n in_o the_o day_n of_o jeroboam_fw-la when_o the_o generality_n of_o the_o land_n walk_v after_o his_o wicked_a commandment_n hos_fw-la 5._o 11._o who_o make_v israel_n to_o sin_n yet_o then_o there_o be_v some_o in_o israel_n who_o retain_v their_o integrity_n and_o set_v their_o heart_n to_o seek_v the_o lord_n who_o also_o for_o that_o end_n come_v to_o jerusalem_n to_o sacrifice_v to_o the_o lord_n god_n of_o their_o father_n 2_o chron._n 11._o v_o 16._o but_o i_o do_v not_o remember_v that_o these_o few_o that_o be_v sincere_a in_o worship_n do_v ever_o come_v together_o in_o a_o national_a assembly_n in_o israel_n to_o renew_v the_o covenant_n with_o god_n and_o to_o enjoin_v the_o same_o to_o that_o great_a multitude_n of_o the_o backslide_a israelite_n nor_o that_o such_o a_o duty_n be_v require_v of_o they_o nor_o that_o they_o be_v blame_v by_o 〈◊〉_d lord_n nor_o any_o of_o his_o prophet_n for_o the_o neglect_n thereof_o and_o the_o case_n we_o have_v in_o stand_n be_v the_o same_o if_o you_o mean_v that_o because_o the_o prince_n power_n be_v against_o the_o synodical_a meeting_n this_o be_v nothing_o against_o the_o power_n of_o the_o synod_n that_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o his_o church_n answ_n we_o mean_v as_o we_o have_v say_v that_o those_o few_o believer_n in_o a_o land_n be_v overpower_v with_o the_o prince_n and_o people_n that_o be_v enemy_n therefore_o this_o assemble_v of_o those_o few_o in_o a_o national_a synod_n and_o there_o enjoin_v a_o national_a covenant_n be_v now_o not_o in_o their_o power_n and_o so_o not_o require_v at_o their_o hand_n if_o your_o meaning_n be_v that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o they_o to_o conveen_n in_o a_o national_a synod_n to_o renew_v a_o covenant_n with_o god_n against_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n will_v i_o hope_v you_o mind_n no_o such_o thing_n answ_n if_o it_o be_v our_o meaning_n how_o can_v it_o be_v hope_v that_o we_o do_v not_o mind_v it_o can_v our_o â—â—â—â—ing_n be_v one_o thing_n and_o our_o mind_n another_o but_o for_o his_o satisfaction_n and_o resolution_n 〈◊〉_d plain_a answer_n be_v this_o that_o we_o neither_o have_v mind_n nor_o meaning_n to_o meddle_v at_o all_o with_o that_o question_n whether_o church_n may_v assemble_v in_o national_a synod_n against_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n will_n for_o we_o do_v not_o think_v that_o mr._n herles_a treatise_n do_v lead_v we_o thereunto_o 〈…〉_z such_o a_o matter_n nor_o be_o i_o willing_a at_o this_o time_n to_o turn_v aside_o to_o the_o same_o but_o to_o keep_v close_o to_o my_o scope_n and_o aim_n which_o be_v to_o consider_v of_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o exception_n against_o the_o answer_n and_o therefore_o for_o his_o discourse_n which_o here_o he_o fall_v upon_o maintain_v at_o large_a against_o malignant_n and_o namely_o against_o tho_n fuller_n that_o the_o reformation_n begin_v in_o scotland_n and_o prosecute_v in_o england_n against_o the_o king_n will_v be_v lawful_a and_o warrantable_a by_o the_o wordâ—_n this_o discourse_n i_o say_v be_v altogether_o concern_v other_o and_o not_o we_o i_o will_v therefore_o pass_v it_o over_o and_o come_v to_o that_o wherein_o ourselves_o be_v concern_v chap._n xxiii_o whether_o the_o word_n church_n be_v not_o give_v to_o a_o single_a congregation_n and_o whether_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o company_n or_o church_n meet_v only_o for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n and_o not_o for_o any_o other_o spiritual_a duty_n and_o whether_o the_o divers_a duty_n 1._o of_o word_n and_o sacrament_n 2._o of_o discipline_n etc._n etc._n must_v needs_o argue_v divers_a church_n pag_n 489._o the_o name_n church_n 1_o cor._n 14._o 4_o 5_o 35._o 27_o 28._o be_v plain_o give_v to_o that_o company_n that_o do_v assemble_v and_o come_v together_o for_o performance_n of_o spiritual_a duty_n and_o for_o the_o exercise_n of_o spiritual_a gift_n as_o act._n 14._o 27._o and_o 11._o 26._o and_o 15._o 4._o 22._o 30._o and_o 1_o cor._n 11._o 18_o 20_o 22_o 23_o 3_o john_n 6._o which_o place_n do_v abundant_o show_v that_o a_o company_n gather_v together_o in_o one_o place_n be_v call_v by_o the_o name_n of_o a_o church_n as_o centhera_n rom._n 16._o 1._o which_o can_v not_o contain_v many_o congregation_n be_v but_o the_o part_n of_o corinth_n and_o for_o this_o passage_n he_o allege_v the_o answer_n pag._n 32._o answ_n mr._n herle_n have_v say_v that_o the_o scripture_n never_o use_v the_o word_n church_n for_o a_o single_a congregation_n unless_o happy_o 1_o cor._n 14._o and_o that_o many_o congregation_n in_o one_o province_n or_o city_n be_v
against_o the_o answer_n it_o in_o his_o pag._n 410._o where_o he_o propose_v a_o object_n to_o this_o effect_n to_o wit_n paul_n exercise_v the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n upon_o barbarian_n and_o may_v have_v preach_v to_o indian_n and_o do_v to_o scoff_a athenian_n yea_o paul_n by_o this_o power_n dogmatic_a rebuke_v the_o athenian_n act._n 17._o 22._o yet_o paul_n have_v no_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v the_o athenian_n and_o then_o he_o subjoin_v my_o name_n and_o cite_v in_o the_o margin_n the_o 43_o and_o 44_o page_n of_o the_o answer_n answ_n this_o objection_n be_v take_v from_o paul_n rebuke_v the_o athenian_n our_o brother_n have_v no_o reason_n to_o propose_v it_o under_o mr._n tompsons_n 〈◊〉_d and_o i_o for_o as_o much_o as_o in_o all_o that_o discourse_n of_o we_o the_o athenian_n to_o my_o remembrance_n be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o once_o mention_v sure_o in_o the_o page_n by_o he_o allege_v there_o be_v no_o mention_n of_o the_o athenian_n at_o all_o and_o therefore_o why_o this_o objection_n shall_v be_v propose_v and_o report_v by_o he_o as_o we_o we_o do_v not_o know_v which_o i_o do_v not_o say_v 〈◊〉_d though_o i_o think_v the_o objection_n so_o weak_a as_o though_o the_o author_n of_o it_o may_v not_o well_o own_v it_o for_o from_o whosoever_o the_o objection_n come_v for_o aught_o that_o i_o yet_o perceive_v there_o be_v good_a weight_n therein_o for_o which_o cause_n and_o because_o in_o one_o of_o those_o page_n we_o have_v deliver_v something_o concern_v a_o minister_n power_n to_o preach_v to_o pagan_n in_o general_a though_o nothing_o concern_v the_o athenians_n in_o particular_a as_o he_o report_v therefore_o i_o be_o willing_a to_o consider_v what_o mr._n rutherforâ—_n say_v for_o the_o satisfy_n of_o the_o objection_n propose_v as_o not_o willing_a to_o pass_v by_o any_o thing_n without_o consideration_n wherein_o ourselves_o may_v seem_v to_o be_v concern_v or_o aim_v at_o i_o deny_v not_o say_v he_o but_o there_o be_v a_o great_a 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at_o all_o nor_o once_o attempt_v to_o prove_v it_o but_o plain_o yield_v the_o contrary_a and_o therefore_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v the_o objection_n remain_v in_o its_o strength_n and_o so_o the_o strength_n of_o his_o argument_n remove_v thereby_o who_o will_v prove_v the_o synod_n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n from_o their_o power_n of_o rebuke_v but_o let_v as_o hear_v what_o he_o answer_v in_o the_o word_n ensue_v it_o can_v be_v deny_v say_v he_o but_o the_o rebuke_v of_o man_n because_o they_o subvert_v soul_n verse_n 24._o be_v not_o a_o mere_a concionall_a rebuke_v which_o may_v be_v perform_v by_o one_o first_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v verse_n 24._o second_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o many_o by_o a_o whole_a synod_n 6._o 22._o three_o it_o be_v perform_v by_o a_o political_a society_n answ_n and_o what_o of_o all_o this_o may_v it_o not_o nevertheless_o be_v deny_v that_o this_o rebuke_v be_v any_o other_o then_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n be_v it_o grant_v that_o 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which_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o disclayme_v moreover_o i_o will_v put_v this_o case_n suppose_v a_o pagan_a or_o a_o christian_a of_o another_o nation_n and_o kingdom_n shall_v come_v into_o a_o church_n assembly_n whether_o the_o assembly_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n or_o a_o synod_n and_o in_o the_o assembly_n shall_v open_o and_o scandalous_o misbehave_v himself_o in_o one_o kind_n or_o other_o to_o the_o dishonour_n of_o god_n and_o grieve_v of_o the_o godly_a and_o the_o danger_n of_o corrupt_v other_o that_o shall_v behold_v such_o bad_a example_n i_o will_v glad_o know_v whether_o this_o assembly_n be_v it_o synod_n or_o other_o may_v not_o lawful_o rebuke_v this_o scandalous_a practice_n and_o behaviour_n and_o if_o they_o may_v whether_o it_o will_v follow_v thereupon_o that_o they_o may_v also_o lawful_o excommunicate_v the_o man_n if_o his_o sin_n and_o impenitency_n shall_v deserve_v the_o same_o if_o it_o be_v say_v they_o may_v i_o will_v know_v quo_fw-la 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within_o itself_o either_o therefore_o a_o congregation_n with_o only_a three_o elder_n be_v no_o politic_a body_n of_o christ_n or_o else_o it_o must_v have_v power_n of_o church_n government_n within_o itself_o beside_o if_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n ordinary_a intensive_a be_v according_a to_o the_o entire_a essence_n of_o a_o ministerial_a church_n be_v as_o complete_a and_o perfect_a in_o one_o single_a congregation_n as_o in_o a_o provincial_n national_n or_o catholic_a church_n as_o our_o author_n say_v it_o be_v p._n 307._o it_o be_v then_o a_o marvel_n why_o such_o a_o congregation_n have_v only_o three_o elder_n may_v not_o have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v last_o his_o word_n be_v express_v page_n 338._o where_o there_o be_v not_o many_o church_n consociate_v than_o ordination_n and_o excommunication_n may_v be_v do_v by_o one_o single_a congregation_n if_o therefore_o a_o congregation_n have_v not_o above_o three_o elder_n yet_o be_v not_o consociate_v with_o 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culpable_a in_o this_o respect_n four_o he_o say_v matter_n concern_v many_o church_n must_v be_v handle_v by_o many_o answ_n this_o may_v be_v grant_v in_o a_o safe_a sense_n without_o any_o prejudice_n at_o all_o unto_o our_o cause_n for_o we_o be_v well_o content_a that_o so_o far_o as_o they_o concern_v many_o they_o may_v be_v handle_v by_o many_o so_o that_o each_o congregation_n may_v have_v liberty_n to_o deal_v in_o they_o so_o far_o as_o they_o concern_v themselves_o and_o thus_o you_o have_v all_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n have_v bring_v against_o that_o passage_n of_o we_o wherein_o we_o say_v it_o be_v not_o our_o way_n but_o they_o that_o do_v make_v the_o gospel_n more_o defective_a than_o the_o law_n instead_o whereof_o he_o be_v please_v to_o make_v we_o say_v that_o they_o do_v judaize_v but_o for_o eleer_v their_o way_n from_o that_o which_o we_o object_n against_o the_o same_o or_o for_o convince_a out_o way_n to_o be_v guilty_a thereof_o as_o by_o some_o have_v be_v object_v which_o be_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v for_o aught_o i_o perceive_v there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o four_o particular_n of_o his_o answer_n that_o do_v any_o thing_n avail_v to_o either_o of_o these_o for_o if_o a_o rash_a deliver_v of_o man_n to_o satan_n have_v more_o evil_a in_o it_o then_o speedy_a end_n of_o controversy_n have_v good_a if_o appeal_v without_o warrant_n from_o christ_n will_n be_v unlawful_a if_o antioch_n do_v appeal_v to_o a_o synod_n 200_o mile_n distant_a and_o if_o matter_n concern_v many_o church_n must_v be_v end_v by_o many_o which_o four_o particular_n be_v the_o whole_a substance_n of_o his_o answer_n what_o be_v there_o in_o all_o this_o for_o i_o will_v glad_o apply_v his_o answer_n to_o the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o thing_n in_o question_n what_o be_v there_o i_o say_v in_o all_o this_o that_o 〈◊〉_d convince_v our_o way_n to_o be_v more_o defective_a than_o the_o way_n under_o the_o 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exercise_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n as_o well_o as_o one_o that_o have_v none_o and_o whether_o a_o man_n may_v take_v on_o he_o the_o whole_a ministry_n have_v no_o outward_a call_n thereto_o and_o may_v not_o as_o well_o take_v on_o he_o one_o act_n of_o baptise_v or_o minister_a the_o lord_n supper_n the_o next_o place_n where_o i_o find_v our_o reverend_a brother_n deal_v with_o the_o answer_n be_v in_o page_n 453_o 454._o where_o dispute_v that_o there_o be_v a_o presbyterial_a church_n at_o jerusalem_n he_o say_v it_o be_v object_v by_o we_o allege_v the_o answer_n page_n 6._o that_o if_o a_o church_n in_o a_o island_n by_o divine_a institution_n and_o so_o the_o first_o congregation_n as_o jerusalem_n which_o do_v meet_v in_o solomon_n porch_n have_v once_o a_o entire_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n
and_o hold_v by_o the_o whole_a this_o reason_n we_o see_v be_v now_o remove_v and_o utter_o take_v away_o forasmuch_o as_o all_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v deny_v to_o the_o general_a council_n which_o be_v the_o inevitable_a now_o if_o there_o be_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o the_o general_a council_n than_o there_o can_v be_v no_o appeal_n to_o such_o a_o council_n for_o such_o a_o end_n and_o if_o no_o appeal_n to_o that_o council_n than_o the_o rule_n do_v not_o always_o hold_v that_o there_o must_v be_v appeal_n from_o the_o lesser_a assembly_n to_o the_o great_a and_o if_o this_o do_v not_o always_o hold_v then_o there_o may_v be_v independent_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o a_o congregation_n without_o appeal_n from_o the_o same_o though_o it_o be_v a_o lesser_a assembly_n than_o the_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_n presbytery_n and_o thus_o our_o purpose_n be_v gain_v for_o how_o can_v it_o be_v avoid_v except_o this_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n yea_o supreme_a or_o independent_a power_n which_o be_v deny_v to_o the_o general_a council_n can_v be_v prove_v to_o be_v in_o the_o class_n synod_n or_o national_a presbytery_n which_o we_o think_v can_v be_v do_v indeed_o to_o say_v on_o the_o one_o side_n that_o 〈◊〉_d be_v no_o independent_a power_n in_o the_o congregation_n and_o to_o say_v on_o the_o other_o side_n that_o there_o be_v no_o power_n at_o all_o of_o jurisdiction_n in_o general_a counsel_n this_o do_v inevitable_o lay_v a_o necessity_n of_o such_o independent_a power_n in_o these_o intermediat_a assembly_n of_o the_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_a presbytery_n except_o we_o shall_v say_v there_o be_v no_o such_o power_n at_o all_o appoint_v by_o christ_n in_o any_o church_n assembly_n on_o earth_n now_o if_o such_o independent_a power_n be_v give_v to_o the_o presbytery_n mention_v as_o it_o needs_o must_v if_o it_o be_v neither_o in_o the_o general_a council_n nor_o in_o the_o single_a congregation_n than_o i_o desire_v to_o know_v upon_o what_o scripture_n or_o scripture_n such_o power_n in_o the_o say_a presbytery_n be_v ground_v and_o build_v and_o whether_o the_o say_a power_n belong_v unto_o they_o all_o or_o only_o unto_o some_o of_o they_o and_o which_o they_o be_v and_o why_o not_o to_o the_o rest_n as_o well_o yea_o why_o not_o to_o the_o single_a congregation_n nor_o yet_o to_o the_o general_a council_n as_o well_o as_o to_o any_o of_o they_o when_o this_o quaere_fw-la be_v answer_v and_o the_o answer_n sufficient_o prove_v by_o scripture_n than_o we_o shall_v see_v more_o reason_n for_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o such_o assembly_n over_o the_o particular_a congregation_n then_o yet_o we_o have_v see_v in_o the_o mean_a time_n this_o quaere_fw-la with_o the_o rest_n i_o leave_v to_o our_o brethren_n consideration_n chap._n xx._n if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v all_o society_n to_o end_n in_o monarchy_n whether_o it_o will_v not_o thence_o follow_v that_o the_o government_n of_o church_n must_v so_o end_v as_o well_o as_o that_o congregation_n must_v depend_v on_o the_o government_n of_o synod_n because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n in_o government_n to_o other_o society_n and_o whether_o the_o multitude_n of_o grecian_n and_o hebrew_n who_o choose_v the_o seven_o deacon_n act._n 6._o be_v two_o congregation_n or_o one_o only_a pag_n 482._o if_o church_n must_v be_v dependent_a on_o synod_n because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n by_o the_o same_o reason_n church_n must_v end_v in_o a_o monarchy_n on_o earth_n for_o which_o he_o allege_v the_o answ_n pag._n 20._o and_o then_o subjoin_v his_o answer_n thus_o i_o see_v this_o say_v without_o any_o approbation_n church_n depend_v on_o many_o above_o they_o for_o unity_n but_o what_o consquence_n in_o this_o ergâ—_fw-la they_o depend_v upon_o one_o visible_a monarch_n it_o be_v a_o unjust_a consequence_n answ_n with_o favour_n of_o so_o worthy_a a_o man_n he_o great_o wrong_v our_o word_n and_o thereby_o wrong_v the_o reader_n by_o leave_v out_o those_o word_n wherein_o the_o plainness_n and_o strength_n of_o our_o argumentation_n lie_v therefore_o i_o be_o force_v here_o to_o relate_v the_o order_n and_o progress_n of_o the_o dispute_n in_o that_o script_n of_o we_o and_o to_o set_v down_o our_o word_n there_o use_v because_o as_o mr._n rutherford_n have_v set_v they_o down_o the_o strength_n of_o consequence_n be_v suppress_v from_o the_o reader_n knowledge_n and_o so_o indeed_o his_o answer_n be_v make_v easy_a but_o the_o naked_a truth_n lie_v thus_o our_o reverend_a brother_n to_o who_o treatise_n we_o return_v answer_v in_o that_o small_a piece_n of_o we_o have_v say_v that_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n be_v teach_v by_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n to_o all_o society_n whatsoever_o whether_o commonwealth_n or_o army_n university_n or_o navy_n he_o present_o add_v by_o way_n of_o prevention_n not_o that_o therefore_o this_o government_n of_o church_n shall_v as_o those_o end_n in_o a_o monarchy_n upon_o earth_n in_o answer_v whereto_o beside_o other_o thing_n we_o have_v these_o word_n pag._n 21._o if_o church_n must_v be_v dependent_a on_o the_o government_n of_o synod_n because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n to_o all_o society_n whatsoever_o than_o we_o see_v not_o how_o it_o will_v be_v avoid_v but_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n church_n must_v end_v in_o a_o monarchy_n on_o earth_n if_o it_o be_v once_o clear_v that_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n do_v teach_v all_o society_n whatever_o so_o to_o end_v so_o there_o be_v as_o good_a reason_n for_o this_o as_o for_o the_o other_o which_o last_o word_n if_o it_o be_v once_o prove_v etc._n etc._n mr._n rutherford_n whole_o leave_v out_o and_o suppress_v and_o so_o make_v his_o own_o answer_n more_o easy_a but_o i_o desire_v so_o much_o favour_n which_o i_o think_v be_v but_o reasonable_a that_o he_o that_o will_v undertake_v to_o answer_v our_o writing_n will_v represent_v our_o word_n and_o argue_v as_o it_o be_v and_o no_o otherwise_o and_o then_o i_o be_o content_a that_o the_o same_o may_v come_v under_o trial_n now_o our_o argue_v be_v this_o if_o church_n must_v be_v dependent_a upon_o the_o government_n of_o synod_n upon_o this_o reason_n because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n to_o all_o society_n whatsoever_o then_o by_o the_o like_a reason_n let_v it_o be_v once_o prove_v which_o be_v by_o mr._n herle_v affirm_v that_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v all_o society_n to_o end_n in_o a_o monarchy_n and_o it_o will_v thereupon_o follow_v that_o church_n must_v likewise_o end_v in_o the_o same_o manner_n if_o we_o yield_v thus_o much_o that_o what_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v other_o society_n the_o same_o must_v be_v observe_v in_o the_o government_n of_o church_n i_o think_v it_o will_v then_o follow_v that_o if_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v other_o society_n to_o end_n in_o a_o monarchy_n on_o earth_n the_o government_n of_o church_n must_v do_v so_o also_o this_o be_v our_o manner_n of_o argue_v in_o which_o the_o consequence_n be_v the_o same_o with_o that_o which_o our_o brethren_n think_v so_o strong_a viz._n that_o because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n therefore_o there_o must_v be_v in_o the_o church_n a_o government_n of_o synod_n if_o any_o say_v the_o consequence_n be_v not_o alike_o necessary_a in_o both_o case_n because_o the_o ground_n do_v not_o hold_v alike_o in_o both_o for_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n do_v not_o teach_v all_o society_n on_o earth_n to_o end_v in_o a_o monarchy_n as_o it_o do_v teach_v a_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n the_o answer_n in_o that_o we_o have_v plain_o say_v the_o same_o in_o the_o place_n of_o the_o answerer_n allege_v viz._n p._n 20_o 21._o but_o the_o main_a question_n lie_v not_o there_o whether_o other_o society_n do_v end_n in_o monarchy_n for_o though_o the_o reverend_a author_n who_o we_o there_o do_v answer_v do_v seem_v so_o to_o judge_v yet_o we_o have_v there_o plain_o declare_v that_o we_o conceive_v of_o that_o matter_n otherwise_o but_o here_o do_v lie_v the_o main_a question_n viz._n suppose_v it_o be_v grant_v that_o light_n of_o nature_n do_v teach_v all_o society_n to_o end_n in_o a_o monarchy_n on_o earth_n whether_o will_v it_o not_o then_o follow_v that_o church_n must_v also_o so_o end_n and_o that_o this_o be_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n will_v plain_o appear_v to_o any_o that_o shall_v peruse_v the_o place_n and_o to_o this_o question_n our_o answer_n be_v that_o the_o consequence_n for_o