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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A34950	A journey into the country being a dialogue between an English Protestant physitian and an English papist : wherein the proper state of the popish controversy is discoursed : with reference (only) to the government of England in church and state, in some answer to Peter Walsh, and pursuant to the directions of a person of honor.	Creamer, Charles, b. 1632?	1675 (1675)	Wing C6867; ESTC R24786	31,884	48

Pap. I apprehend what you mean by kernel and shell you may continue the Metaphor and tell me wherein our King contributes to the preservation of the Old kernel more then his Holyness Phy. Why then I 'le tell you this kernel and shell first grew in Palestine which was a land as fruitful as that mentioned Deut. 8. and more for fruit-trees especially Figs there never leave bearing the old Figs continuing till the new come which resolvs 14 Mark 13. But for shell fruit especially such as we talk of Dr. Heylin says little is there but what comes from Damascus And as to this shell fruit of ours some Indignities being offered thereto by untoward Neighbours viz the Essens Saducees Scribes Pharisees Herodians and Galileans It was thought fit to be transplanted And one St. Joseph an honourable Counsellor planted it in England where it continued and did thrive exceedingly the Kernel flourishing keeping its native Vigour Sap and Colour the Shell fine thin well favoured and as hard one would think as a Rock and so it continued near five hundred years afterwards by the Luxuriancy of the Soil and the over officious and too critical Appointments and Trials of some Supervisors and too lazy and superficial of others on this well coloured thin and hard shell a kind of false Rind grew and covered it quite over till you could not see the true shell this Rind was maintained as engendred by something forreign nothing from the Kernel It happened that a great Wind arose once upon a time about the time of Lent I think it was a westerly Wind and as easterly Winds bring in Autumn Ascarides to destroy Orchards and Garden Fruits so in Lent this westerly Wind brought an infinite number of Vermin of equivocal generation to be sure into our Land they were of several shapes and colours all of them but of two legs divellish beaks like birds of prey some were red some russet some black and some of all colours and Sir this sort of verminous Breedlings after that the gross putrid Air that was their Parent and Vehicle hither became somewhat rarified and so not so full of luscious support got into this scurvy Rind and there digg'd their Mansions and for many years lived on the adventitious juice which supplyed the Rind which strange Animals swarming to too great a number could not be preserved with fatness in the Rind but lay gnawing on the shell made holes therein and as I 'me credibly informed had almost endangered the kernel whereupon the Matter was inquired into and found out by skilful Workmen who quite pared off the Rind and so destroyed the Nests of those Caterpillars and have indeavoured to keep the shell well favoured thin and hard as it was at first yet it's strange though one sort of Vermin be scraped off another kind of Vermin like Mites will fall on if not warily looked after but for the whole Matter we keep it now pretty well only now and then washing it over with a little water and Salt Pap. Well Sir if you mean by the Kernel the Christian Religion by the Shell Discipline on Worship and by the Rind some Super additions thereupon in which or upon which the Romish Priests and Regulars lived and by the paring of the Rind the Reformation and by the Mites your own Sectaries and by Water and Salt paenal laws as I think you do What if all this be true which I deny yet how come your Kings to have any thing to do in Reformation of the Church Phy. Our Kings have power to reform the Church of England c. by a Power inherent in them as Emperors within their Dominions Pap. How Emperors sure you 'l not make that out When were the Kings of England stiled Emperors Phy. Whether any of our Kings were actually stil'd Emperors is not the point But they were so ever since they wore an Imperial Crown and that is ever since there was first a King of England Pap. But how does that make him Governour of the Church Phy. That makes him not Governour of the Church but God made him such and That is Evidence that God made him such the Crown of England never being rightfully dependent as to any Jurisdiction on any forreign Emperour Prince Potentate or Patriarch and so is his Crown Imperial and his power absolute according to the most ancient Constitution and Laws of this Realm in all matters Civil and Ecclesiastical Our King is by our fundamental Laws a person sacred and mixed with the Priesthood and at his Coronation by a solemn Consecration and Unction he becomes a sacred and Ecclesiastical Person for as he hath put upon him the regal Crown as Embleme of his Kingship and Power in Temporals so hath he a Sacerdotal Vestment commonly called Dalmatick as a Levitical Ephod to signifie his Power in Spirituals and accordingly our Kings have always on occasion called a National Synod called here a Convocation consisting of the Clergy-Lords and Commons appoints a Primate to preside there and they consult together and prepare Canons for ordering such Church matters as the King appoints and no more which the King afterward Enacts and makes to be Laws by his Royal Assent What can your Pope say more for himself Pap. He can say much more for himself Phy. I believe he can say enough but he cannot prove half he sayes Pap. He can prove that his way of Worship has been used longer then yours Phy. More shame that it has been suffered so long but let it be what it will in other Countries still I say it ought not to be so here since the Laws of the Land command the contrary the Pope having no Right to any Jurisdiction here as before is said And I must tell you and can make it good That the King of England hath been styled Vicar of the highest God long before the Pope became a Prince or Pope Pap. These Methinks are odd things and contrary to the Law of God Phy. Pray Sir let me ask you a few Questions viz. first whether Peter had any thing to do here in England when Joseph of Arimathea was here Or when Paul was here Which was before he was at Rome and Joseph came hither with his twelve holy Complices after Stephens death The first Christian Church was built by Joseph at Glassenbury here was three Arch-bishops and twenty eight Bishops before Austin the Monk came hither who refused to keep Easter as it was kept at Rome to baptize by their Ceremonies or to joyn in preaching with the Anglo-Saxons I say pray in all this time which was some Hundreds of years next after our Saviour what Jurisdiction did St. Peter or his Romish Successors claim in England Pray where was Pope or Supremacy either before they were given to Boniface the third anno 606 by Phocas that Adulterous Assassine who slew his Master Mauritius the Emperor before that Pope was usual to other Bishops then Volumus and Jubemus came in the

A JOURNEY INTO THE COUNTRY BEING A DIALOGUE Between an English PROTESTANT Physitian AND AN English PAPIST WHEREIN The proper State of the Popish Controversy is discoursed With Reference only to the Government of ENGLAND in Church and State In some Answer to Peter Walsh and pursuant to the Directions of a Person of Honor. Papa stupor Mundi non Deus non Homo sed utrumque Gloss in proem Clem. Moscan de Rom. Pont. l. 1. c. 11. LONDON Printed for Henry Brome at the Gun at the West-end of St. Pauls M DC LXXV THE PUBLISHER TO THE READER THIS ensuing Discourse seems to be wrote about the time when by Proclamation Papists were not to reside within ten Miles of London and 't is not yet out of Season nor will be till our Controversies with the Papists be throughly and truly stated after which it cannot be long ere they be ended I see not how English men have to do with the Romish Church or State their Laws Doctrines or Discipline therefore while they have been exercising us with Disputes about those things they had two Ends viz. Either to lead us into some Precipice or to Lap-wing us from the proper tendency of our Enquiries which in truth is our home Concerns and so a Controversy only between English Papists and English Catholicks called Protestants for Distinction with reference to their Prince who governeth by Laws diverse from all the Nations of the World and so is not to be argu'd out of his Right by any Parallel from other Kingdoms But as a Person of Honour hath lately begun so this Author has set forward the proper Contest still meaning between English Papists and English Protestants the latter of whom affirm as follows 1. That the King of England is Emperour and sole Monarch of England and established by a Law diverse from all other Nations 2. That the Church of England has all the Rights of a Patriarchal See from which lies no Appeal to any other Patriarch 3. That all Church Authorities and Jurisdictions with reference to this life and the ends of Government are rightfully derived from the King of England being naturally in him as a mixt Person and Custos utriusque tabulae according to Rom. 13. 4. That he is a Traytor that denyes this or affirms any forreign Prince Prelate or Potentate to have any Jurisdiction in England c. or diminishes the Kings Legal Style 5. There was naturally no difference between Church and State as to Jurisdictions until Christian Monarchs divided Jurisdictions and delegated Civil and Ecclesiastical Persons to take Conusance and judge of Causes separate and those Jurisdictions are called Civil and Ecclesiastical in respect of the Delegates only and not in respect of the Causes whereof they take Conusance and Judge 6. The King hath power naturally within his Dominions by such his delegates respectively to declare what are Articles of Faith according to Scripture and not otherwise and to make and interpret Laws for the Government of Church and State to appoint Forms of Worship and Discipline not against the word of God to add to such Laws Sanctions to punish Offenders against such Laws 7. These Rights and Powers of the King are Inherent in him as Essential Flowers of his Crown as antient as the Crown it self in which his Subjects are so interessed with reference to their Propriety in his personal Government by Original Constitutions as the King cannot by any rightf●l Act he can do grant them away to any Forreign Power Person or Potentate or to others but by way of delegation as to the declarative and executive Part. 8. What ever of these Rights and Powers any King of England has at any time allowed to the Pope has been so allowed against the Fundamental Law of the Land and so was utterly void and not obliging to any Successors Kings of England c. 9. That all Papists denying the Jurisdiction of the Pope here both in Civil and Ecclesiastical matters yet holding Communion with the Church of Rome in matters of worship against our established Laws are grievous Offenders 10. That passive Obedience is no Obedience In as much as true Obedience must be spontaneous intire active and with respect to the Law of Nature antecedent to the Kings Command which injoyns intire Obedience to the Kings lawful Command for the Lords sake not barely for the Command sake 11. That the King cannot dispense with or free the Subject from such natural Obedience but only from the penalty added by and annexed to his Command 12. That the King cannot tolerate here the Exercise of the Popish Worship the same being superstitious and idolatrous and against the Established Laws 13. That no English man whatsoever how far so ever they pretend to differ from or disown the Pope can give reasonable security for the Preservation of the Peace of the Church or State by them unless they swear due Allegiance to the King and by Oath declare his Supremacy in the Church and by that Oath renounce all the Popes Authority whatsoever over them and his Power to dispense with that Oath and that they will be obedient to all the Kings Laws 14. That an English man in Priests Orders from the Church of Rome ●xcommunicated or censur'd by tha● Church and yet holding Communion with that Church i● not to be trusted here although he takes the Oaths above mentioned In as much as he is of no Church being wilfully divided from ours and by Censure divided from the other and so disobedient to all Governors a lawless and perjured Person and so in a present State of Damnation nor is any Romish Priest to be trusted here though he takes the said Oaths in as much as he hath taken a former Oath to the contrary not renounced 15. That since no English understanding Papist doth absent or at any time hath absented from our Communion and Worship out of pure Judgment and Reason But purely by reason of the old inhibition of the Pope in Q. Elizabeth's time for before that they joyn'd with us and were called Church Papists and at the same time they in opposition to our Kings Laws do so firmly yield to that Inhibition and disobey several other Commands of the Pope even in some matters of Faith It 's refer'd to the wisdom of the King with the advice of his said Delegates whether such co 〈…〉 ious Offenders be with any safety to be tolerated or even con●iv'd at here 16. That the Church and Court of Rome are so incorporated together that if Communion with that Church be admitted or tolerated here it must necessarily be introductory of that Courts Vsurpation 17. That there are now great differences of opinion among the English Papists themselves with reference to the Pope And if they were all of the mind with the most moderate Pretenders yet what Security can be given that they will alwayes be so or that they shall be succeeded by others of the same Judgment or is it