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A00664 An ansvvere to VVilliam Alablaster [sic] his motiues. By Roger Fenton preacher of Grayes Inne Fenton, Roger, 1565-1616.; Alabaster, William, 1567-1640. 1599 (1599) STC 10799; ESTC S101956 37,337 52

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heretikes as the thickest and most grosse conceit may thereby with facilitie discerne them The most notorious marke you haue chosen is their difference of doctrine from the former tradition and custome All ancient customes traditions receiued from our forefathers being venerable for age haue receiued such force from time as they become equiualent with lawes and binde posterities to yeelde perfit obedience So that euery alteration as of ciuil constitutions so especially of religion is not only dangerous but therein also preiudiciall to it selfe that it gainsayeth antiquitie For of whatsoeuer it may be iustly affirmed Dictum fuit antiquis that is to stand inuiolable against all innouation whatsoeuer neither is it by any meanes to be ouerruled but onely by a rule more ancient Non fuit sic ab initio By which our Sauiour controuled the ancient traditions of the Iewes examining them by the first institution of the lawe For the first in euery kinde is the rule and square of all the rest Therefore euery custome in the Church of God is with all dutie and reuerence to be embraced except onely in case where it doth crosse the doctrine of Christ and the Apostles whereupon the Church it selfe is built And therein adificium coedat solo so much onely doe the places by you alledged inferre that we should not varie from the doctrine of the Apostles which we willingly subscribe vnto But in these dayes I would not wish euery thicke conceit to put himselfe vpon the triall of former times for true antiquitie least he be deceiued therein as Israel was by the Gibeonites with olde ragges and clouted shooes Ioshua 9. But the safest triall will be Quid fuit ab initio as we learne out of Vincentius in his worthie worke as D. Bristow cals it for put case saith he that heresie be once so rooted in the Church that it begins to plead antiquity that it spread so far and haue got such strength as the fauorers thereof haue power and oportunitie to alter and corrupt the ancient writers then is it onely safe to make triall by the written word How iustly these things haue been obiected to the Church of Rome I will not dispute onely let this suffice that an author so ancient so renowned by your selues doth not onely thinke it possible to befall in the visible Church but also hath set downe this aduise against the same I come to the strength of this motiue which is the conclusion of this whole discourse MOTIVE Neither are they able to proue that either catholike or heretique did challenge the Church of Rome for any of the controuerted questions when first they began to arise For Arius Actius Vigilantius Berengarius and the rest spake against those poynts of doctrine which we haue proofe by the aduersaries consent to haue been practised many ages before in the Church But if they cannot shew neither in all nor in one question betweene vs that the repugnance and reiecting of it by any is ancient as the allowance thereof it is manifest that the latter not the former were heretiques which brought in alteration ANSVVERE WE are able in some questions to satisfie your demand and for the rest to giue sufficient reason why it cannot be which two poynts will easily and fully dissolue the force of this obiection For matters in question whereof the Church of Rome is now challenged be of two sorts Some be like blemishes in the face so conspicuous as they may easily be discerned at the first others fester more inwardly To the former kinde doe belong especially those poynts which concerne the gouernment of the Church Loth I am to enter particulars in this generall discourse but onely because you vrge me to shew in any one question betweene vs that the repugnance and reiecting of it is ancient as the allowance thereof I nominate the title and right of vniuersall Byshop with the priuiledges thereunto belonging which as they were claimed by the Popes so were they at the same times euermore disclaimed by others For the Primacie of honour dignitie which at the first was generally giuen to the Church of Rome aswell in regard of her large dominions of the wisedome and vertues of the commaunders of that Sea as also of the weakenesse and leuitie of the Easterne Churches togither with other occurrents and consequences of the Empyre This I say was by the more ambitious Popes and their Parasites vsed for a styrrop to mount them higher from a primacie to a supremacie from honor dignitie to a soueraigne power and authoritie Which was no sooner vpon occasiō practised by any but presently was it checked and controlled not by particular men but whole Synodes Pope Iulius presuming vpon this title did attempt to restore Athanasius Paulinus vpon their appeale to Rome who by the Bishopes of Asia and their Metropolitan had bin depriued Whereupon they of Alexandria assembled a synod at Antioch dispatched letters to the Pope both vehement and bitter and therein declared it to be most vnequal for him to impose lawes vpon them for the depriuing of any since they did not intermedle with his busines when he had expelled Nouatus out of the Church of Rome Thus much is fully expressed by Socrates in the 11. of his eccle siasticall storie If you require instance of the Bishops of Afrike likewise witnes Saint Syprian writing to Pope Cornelius vnto whom hee affirmes their ioynt decree against Rome appealers to be both equal right For saith he since euery pastor hath a portion of the flocke committed to him which hee is to gouerne and rule as one that must giue account thereof vnto the Lord it behoueth them vnder our custody to pleade their cause at home where accusers and witnesses may be had vnlesse happily some few desperat lewd fellowes thinke the authoritie of the African Bishops to be lesse by whom they are iudged Thus did Cyprian write occasioned by one Faelicissimus who depriued in Africa ranne to Rome But this repugnance you cannot deny to be ancient A little after at the counsell of Sardice this question of iurisdiction grew so hot twixt the fathers of the East and West Churches that the Easterne Bishops before any thing determined retyred themselues home to their places the remnant of the Latine Church established a law concerning appeales to Rome thereby to extoll the famous memorie of the Apostle Peter But at the verie next counsel all this was quite dasht againe at the counsell of Carthage assembled of aboue 200 fathers amongst whom Saint Augustine was one where it was peremtorilie decreed not in one or two but foure intire chapters that none should make any appeale beyond the Sea in paine of excommunicatiō Notwithstanding vnto this counsell did the Pope send three Legates with straight command to maintaine his right which hee pretended to be grounded vpon a decree of the Nicen Counsell that decree was proued forged the Nicen