on this place maketh an exact difference betwixt death and Hades for that Hades containeth soules and deadbodies where the Latin in both places hath death and no more The Latin Fathers you will say doe all follow the old Latin translator and he placeth the word sting last as you do There is no one place in the new Testament that hath receiued more varietie of translating and ordering then this Tertullian citeth it thrice in one booke after this sort Vbi est mors aculeus tuus vbi est mors aculeus Where is thy sting ó death Where is thy strife ô death reading 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 strife for victorie Cyprian citeth it in the same order and words as Tertullian doth Ambrose returneth neerer to the Greeke and saith vbiest mors stimulus tuus vbi est mors victoria tua ô death where is thy sting ô death where is thy victorie euen as the interpreter of Ireneaus doth though he inuert that order in an other place and follow the Septuagint which Ierom and other of the Latin Fathers also doe And least you should thinke as you doe that the old translator who very scrupulously keepeth the word Infernum for Hades through out the Bible did heere translate it by death you shall see that Eusebius lighted on a Greeke copie where the word Thanatos death was twice repeated and the parts changed as they stand in the Latine 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ô death where is thy victorie ô death where is thy sting Elsewhere the same Author keepeth the word death twice but altereth the order 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ô death where is thy sting ô death where is thy victorie In this diuersitie of reading and relating the Apostles wordes it is eche mans duetie not to runne which way he will though perhaps he may bring some one president for his purpose but to hold that for the true and Authenticke text to which most copies and writers agree And therefore since your exposition of hades death to be Synonymas dependeth vpon your priuate changing the order of the apostles words I see no need to make any answere to it specially when as the Latin translator might and no doubt did light on such a copie as Eusebius did which had the word Thanatos death twice in that place Otherwise it could not be that he who was ouer diligent in all other places would be so negligent in this A farder answere to the frame of your wordes as you haue placed them if any man for his satisfaction would receiue the name of death which compriseth both temporall and eternall death and by sinne gaâ—… the victorie of our first parents but that the elect by Christ haue againe recouered the victorie ouer all sorts of death giueth answeare enough For sinne which the Apostle heere calleth the sting of death did not onely sting Adam and his ofspring with the death of the body but also with the death of the soule the wages of sinne being death in all parts of man and in all places of his abode and therefore sinne of his owne nature and force till it be pardoned by Christ is the sting no lesse of hell as in all the wicked then of bodily death as in all the Saints And heere by the way the Reader may obserue that for aduantage you are content to make bodily death in the Saints the sting of sinne which I trust is as much as the punishment of sinne since it stingeth vnto death The graue of the wicked is not to be named or reckned hell properly Whom doth the Apostle make to speake in that place the godly who haue the victorie ouer sinne hell and death or the wicked ouer whom those three get the conquest since the wicked doe not rise from death to life as the Saints doe but their bodides rising out of one pit fall into a farre worse which is the bottomlesse pit of eternall death damnation Hades is aduersary to the resurrection But hell heere would not be aduersary to the resurrection Therefore hades heere is not hell no not to the wicked Doth the Apostle dispute heere of the resurrection of the wicked to death euerlasting or of the Saints to celestiall blisse and glory though it be true that the bodies of the reprobate shall rise vp from the earth where they rested and be cast with their soules into euerlasting fire yet the Apostle heere debateth and prooueth the raising vp of Christs members to beare the image of the heauenly Adam and to haue death swallowed vp in victory Looke on the Apostles reasons and comparisons in this whole chapter and if any one of them naturall or theologicall agree to the resurrection of the wicked then let the Reader thinke you haue some vnderstanding of this place which now is vtterly none If Christ be not risen your faith is in vaine saith Paul and you are yet in your sinnes As in Adam all died so in Christ all shal be quickened euery one in his order Christs as the first fruits then those that are Christs at his comming There is one glory of the Sunne another of the Moone and another of the Starres So also shal be the resurrection of the dead The body is sowen in corruption dishonor and weakenesse it shall rise in incorruption in glory in power When this corruptible hath put on incorruption and this mortall hath put on immortalitie then shal be performed that which is written Death is swallowed vp in victory and the Saints shall haue iust cause to say ô death where is thy sting ô hades hell where is thy victory Thanks be to God which hath giuen vs victory through our Lord Iesus Christ. How farre are these things from all communion of the wicked though hell at that day shal be increased and aduanced as you call it with the bodies of all the wicked yet may the godly Saints of whom the Apostle speaketh most iustly reioice against hell and death as being now swallowed vp in victory that is vtterly defeated of all force to kill the body any more or to stay the soule any longer by meanes of death from her crowne of glory For the victory which God will giue vs through Christ our Lord against hell and death is not yet full till our soules and bodies be brought to eternall blisse And were it possible which is not that the soules of the Saints could for euer enioie the rest and blisse which now they haue without their bodies euen in this want of one halfe Satan should still haue some victory ouer them that is ouer their bodies though not ouer their soules Wherefore the victory is then full when both parts of man are freed from all things that hinder their heauenly inheritance And this the best interpreters confesse Peter Martyr Interim videas ordine quodam nostros iâ—…micos
the wages thereof to be finall depriuation of all grace and glorie and eternall damnation of bodie and soule to hell-fire how can she but quake and tremble at the very cogitation and remembrance of her owne guiltinesse and of the greatnesse of his power and iustnesse of his anger And therefore the godlie presently fall vpon the consideration hereof to condemne and detest all their sinnes and with broken and contrite harts to lament their vnrighteousnesse and to afflict their spirits with earnest and inward sorrow till by faith and repentance they find comfort in the mercies of God through Christ Iesus For want of which the wicked often in this life and speciallie at the houre of death sincke vnder the burden of their sinnes and plunged into the depth of desperation are possessed with an horrible fright and terror of the torments prepared for them in another world they feeling here on earth in their soules the remorse of sinne and sting of conscience but not able to rise vnto true repentance and hope of saluation by reason of their continuall contempt of grace whiles it was offered them which then is taken from them After this life appeare the terrible iudgements of God against sinne which the wicked so much feare and the faithful so much shun the speciall maner and meanes whereof as farre as the Scriptures deliuer them I will deferre till I come to the particular handling of them though I haue often proposed them and in part proued them but whether the words of the Scripture expressing them be allegories that is figuratiue shadowes or plaine speeches that question is not yet debated which I reserue till I haue ended the immediate suffering of the soule as this Discourser calleth it Of these sixe meanes besides the immediate hand of God to inflict paine on the soule for the punishment of sinne it pleaseth you Sir Discourser to skip foure and the other two in effect to denie Affections you say are neither punishments nor corrections at all properly in themselues and suffering by sympathie from and with the bodie is common as you auouch to vs with beasts and is no proper humane suffering because in your iudgement your first kinde of suffering from the immediate hand of God alone is the proper humane suffering which for that cause your selfe call the soules proper and immediate suffering But what if in all this you speake not one true word what if the affections that be euill be properlie punishments of sinne what if the soules suffering from and with the bodie be the true and proper humane suffering what if God vse not his immediate hand in tormenting soules but hauing ordained and appointed meanes by his wisedome and power committeth sinfull soules to be punished by those instruments and meanes which he with his hand hath prepared and in his word expressed Do you not shew your selfe a deepe Diuine that prooue points of faith by open falsities and heape vp errours by the dozens binding them with your bare word and obtruding them to the world as oracles lately slipt from heauen but go to the parts and first to the affections which you affirme are no punishments whether they be good or euill The affections of the soule that be good as the loue of God the zeale of his glorie and hope of his mercie and trueth are the speciall gifts and graces of Gods spirit and so farre from paining the soule that they breed exceeding comfort and ioy in the Holieghost The affections that are eâ—…ill are not onely the rage and reward of sinne but inflict as great anguish as may be felt in this life Concupiscence which is the root and nurse of all euill affections in vs be they sensitiue or intellectiue what is it but the inordinate and intemperate desire and loue of our owne willes and pleasures despising and hating whatsoeuer resisteth or hindereth our deuices or delights yea though it be the will and hand of God himselfe this corruption of the soule by sinne which is now naturall in vs all whence came it but from and for the punishment of the first mans sinne what is it but the verie poison of sinne and whether tendeth it but to withstand and refuse all grace that men reiecting God and reiected of God may runne headlong to the finall and eternall vengeance of their sinne It is no small punishment of sinne for men to be left to the desires of their owne hearts and to be giuen ouer to vile affections which the Apostle calleth the reward of their error and euen the fulnesse of all vnrighteousnesse which make men the seruants of sinne whiles they wait on lusts and diuers pleasures which fight against the soule by leading it captiue vnto the law of sinne which is in the members And if you doubt whether they paine the soule or no looke but on their names or their effects and you shall soone be out of doubt Anger disdaine despaire dislike detestation feare sorrow ragâ—… furie for earthly things can these be so much as conceiued or named without euident impression or mention of paine yea the fairest of our affections and those which at first flarter vs most as loue desire and pleasure I speake still of euill and vnlawfull do they not quicklie faile sowerlie leaue and sharplie vexe with their remembrance and repentance the greatest seekers and owners of them In all these worldlie desires and delights S. Austens rule is generallie true Quod sine illiciente amore non habuit sine vrente dolore non perdet He that kept them not without alluring loue loseth them with afflicting griefe As for the intellectiue passions of the soule which are the trembling at Gods wrath the feare of his power and despaire of his fauour besides the shame of sinne griefe of heart and horror of hell what torments they breed in the condemned consciences of the wicked the godly may partly iudge by that which they sometimes taste notwithstanding their present recourse to the mercies and promises of God in Christ. So that euill affections aswell intellectiue as sensitiue be punishments of sinne and painfull to the soule howsoeuer your cogitations Sir Discourser be otherwise humored Concerning the soules suffering from and with the bodie which you say is common to vs with beasts if the soule do not consider for what cause at whose hand and to what end she suffereth as also how she may be freed and what thanks is due to her deliuerer she may be well likened to the Horse and Mule in whom is no vnderstanding but the brutish dulnesse of some earthly minded men doth not make this kind of suffering not to be properly humane which God from the beginning did and doth vse to all his seruants and saints his owne sonne not excepted and whereby God worketh in all his children correction probation perfection preparation to glorie which are things most proper to men and no way communicable vnto beasts God
any certaine measure of Christes paines felt in his bodie or soule by which his soule might easily be afflicted as farre as his humane strength could stretch but the matching and euening of it with hell fire I take to be a presumptuous and irreligious deuice of this Dreamer for the reasons which I haue formerly shewed to wit that hell paines are not executed in this life where Christ suffered nor sufferable to the bodie which is mortall nor tolerable to the strength of men or angels Now though the gifts and graces of Gods Spirit in the soule of Christ exceeded the measure of angels as well for himselfe who is Lord and Iudge ouer all as for vs that receiue of his fulnesse yet in his crucifying the Scriptures note his infirmitie not his infinitie and auouch him by the suffering of death to be inferiour to the angels and not in strength of flesh to be superiour vnto them who are not able to endure hell paines with patience as we finde by triall in diuels Wherefore assure thy selfe Christian Reader they are more than follies which this man fableth of Christes paines equall and euen to hell fire it selfe and such is his constancie in his new Diuinitie that sometimes Christ suffered the verie paines of hell themselues and the same which the damned doe sometimes Christes paine was equall to it and as hot as hell fire and so not the verie same that the damned do suffer who feele indeed the true force of hell fire though not in that heat and heigth which they shall feele it at and after the day of iudgement It is most necessarie and most comfortable to be vnderstood of all men how the Lord assigned to his Sonne in the worke of redemption two persons as it were or countenances or conditions His owne naturally which God euer deerely loued and our countenance or person or condition which the Lord truely accursed and punished His owne Nature felt the sorrow and paine of the curse and hatred but the hatred and curse was bent against the load of our sinne wherein he stood foorth as guiltie before God and appeared as it were clothed therewith The taking of our Nature person and cause by the Sonne of God for our saluation is a key of Christian pietie that most concerneth and most profiteth vs if it be rightly vnderstood But as Waspes out of sweete flowres gather sharpe and hote liquors so out of the wholsome mysteries of true religion you labour to encrease the tartnesse of your vnholsome humour The eternall and true Sonne of God by the determinate counsell of his Father tooke our humane nature that is both the bodie and soule of man into one and the same person with his diuine glorie that by the sanctitie power and dignitie of the one the basenesse and weakenesse of the other might with more certaintie securitie and facilitie performe the worke of our redemption For by the neere and inseparable knitting of those two natures together not onely the person was able by his owne power to destroy sinne death and Satan and of his owne right to giue the spirit of trueth and grace and euerlasting righteousnesse and happinesse to all that beleeue in him but his birth life and death that is his humilitie obedience and patience were of infinite price and value with God by reason the same person that so humbled himselfe to obey the will and suffer the hand of his Father was also God though he could not suffer in his diuine but onely in his humane nature And to assure vs of his mercies towards vs by making vs partakers of his graces and merits with him he tooke all his elect into one and the same bodie with him ioyning himselfe vnto them by the power of his spirit as the head to the members that from him they might draw the strength hope and ioy of eternall life and all his meritorious passions and victorious actions be fully theirs as performed in their names and to their vses by him that for their sakes became their like and their leader I meane their head and their Sauiour And because sinne was the thing which seuered vs from Gods holinesse and prouoked his iustice against vs subiecting vs to death and damnation Christ therefore tooke vpon him the recompence of his Fathers holines by his obedience the preseruance of his Fathers iustice by his patience admitting into his humane soule and bodie not the infection or pollution of our sinne much lesse the confusion or destruction due to vs for sinne since he could neither be defiled with our sinne nor damned for our sinne but the purgation and satisfaction of our sinnes To which end by his obedience he abolished our disobedience that as by one mans disobedience which was Adam many were made sinners so by the obedience of one which is Christ manie should be made righteous and through death suffered in the bodie of his flesh for the redemption of our transgressions he reconciled vs to God and set at peace by the blood of his Crosse things in earth and things in heauen bearing our finnes in his bodie on the tree that we might be healed by his stripes We then were in our selues defiled hated accursed reiected and condemned for sinne yet Christ our Redeemer and Sauiour tooke vs into himselfe and our cause vpon himselfe not to partake with vs in our spirituall filthinesse and eternall wretchednesse but to clense vs from the one and to free vs from the other So that we did neither defile nor endanger him But his blood washed vs from all our sinnes and by his death he destroyed him that had power ouer death euen the deuill You speake then not onely without booke but without trueth when you say that Christ was euer deerely loued of God for his owne condition yet in or for our condition he was truely accursed and hated You might with as much faith and religion haue said That Christ by or with our condition was truely polluted with sinne and truely reiected confounded and damned for sinne For so were we and if his taking our cause vpon him doe truely and necessarily subiect him to our deserts and dangers then can none of these things be auoided which you so much abhorre as blasphemies All those things were due to vs in the highest degree euen when Christ tooke vs and our cause vnto him and were not released vnto vs but in Christ and for Christ and consequently if your two countenances and conditions in Christ be such as you make you may aswell affirme the last as the first that is as well pollution of sinne and damnation for sinne as malediction and hatred for sinne But who is so foolish amongst men as to thinke or call him a Theefe and a Felon that vpon repentance of the partie and recompense for the fact intreateth and obteineth pardon for one that was a Theefe and a Felon or so childish to say that
direct and comfort others as also stretch out our hands to aide and relieue our selues and our brethren and with all the partes of our bodie to performe all outward actions and dueties of pietie and charitie To which ends because sense and motion both externall and internall were requisite as well as reason the wisedome of God hath placed in the body and specially in the head and heart the seates of vnderstanding and will certaine thinne quicke and aeriall vapours or spirits which rise from the blood and are brought by the braine to a marueilous force and agilitie that they should carie to the minde of man with incredible celeritie the resemblances of all things subiected to sense and with like vehemencie stirre and excite the heart and will of man with consent to imbrace and with all the powers and partes of soule and bodie to follow after that which prouoketh and delighteth the sensitiue spirits So that these corporall and actiue spirits are the meanes whereby particular things and circumstances together with their profites and pleasures are in a moment presented to the mind and the heart and will likewise mooued and inflamed to accept and allow that which contenteth and pleaseth the senses For according as the things obiected to sense or remembred after sense seeme good or euill to the powers of the soule vnited with these spirits so is desire or anger kindled by pleasure on the one side and dislike or griefe on the other which presently and violently preuaile with the soule where grace wanteth and lust and striue euen in the Saints against the spirit of God This is that part of the soule which in the faithfull is not regenerate whiles here they liue lusting still after the things of this world euen the delights of the flesh the desires of the eye and the pride of life and by these baits and snares fighting against the Soule The third power of the Soule is intellectiue that is the mind endued with vnderstanding and will which in the naturall man is ignorant of God and auerse from God by corruption of sinne and so caried through the loue of it selfe either to carnall pleasures at the prouocation of the senses or to vaine desires vnder color of humane reason and glorie This part in the faithfull is lightned and perswaded by the Spirit of God to see and acknowledge the good and acceptable will of God and strengthned with a measure of grace to resist the dominion of sinne dwelling in our mortall bodie that is in the sensitiue powers and affections of the soule mixed with the members and spirits of the body though in this life the mind euen of the regenerate hath not that perfection of knowledge and loue which the law of God requireth and therefore shrinketh often from the leading of Gods spirit by ignorance and infirmitie but neuer by rebellion and obstinacie This much being said touching the powers of the Soule which may more largely be perused in that learned worke of Zanchius alleaged by this Discourser It is most euident by the very grounds of humane and Diuine learning and experience that the principall part of the Soule which is the mind enabled with reason and will hath in all sorts of sinnes a manifest communion with the Body either by information of the senses or by tentation from the affections or by impression on the spirits and parts of the body or by the ready subiection of the whole body to the will besides originall corruption which the Soule draweth from the Body sufficient of it selfe to make the Body guiltie of all euill committed by the Soule and actuall execution whereby the Soule needeth and vseth the Body to effect and accomplish whatsoeuer she intendeth And first of information for the senses The knowledge of good and euill which the Soule of man hath in this life is not infused by creation as it was in Angels to whom that kind of knowledge is peculiar but collected from the sense and taught by time as we see by experience in all mankind without exception I still reserue the reuelation and inspiration of Gods Spirit when where and to whom pleaseth him A plaine proofe of the former point we dayly behold in children who vtterly know nothing no not their right hand from their lâ—…ft as God himselfe testifieth till by sense and vse they learne to distinguish and at length to conceaue the things set before them The Rule of naturall Philosophie expressing that the vnderstanding hath nothing which came not from the sense you would faine tumble out of your way but it is very true and consonant to the Scriptures if it be taken as it was ment and the reuelation of Christs Spirit thence excepted of which in deed the Philosophers knew nothing For that was not spoken of conclusions in reason as if they must be first in sense before they could be inferred by consequent nor of the diuiding and compounding things in mans imagination that came from the sense as dreames and fictions but of the principles or premisses in reason which must be plaine to the sense and of the naturall and true proprieties and differences of all particular things which the sense must first apprehend before the mind can rightly discerne them So that the mind conceaueth truely no singular things which were not first apparent to the sense since man hath no naturall meanes giuen him of God to get the true knowledge of any thing that is not reuealed or inspired from aboue but onely his senses To this the Scriptures beareth witnesse where the meanes to informe mans Hart of good and badde in which sinne consisteth are set downe to be the eyes and the eares still sauing to God what he reuealeth by the power of his spirit Ignorance and neglect of Gods will whence all sinne commeth are described in the Scriptures by the dulnesse of the eare and blindnesse of the eye God hath giuen them saith Paul the spirit of slumber euen eyes that they should not see and eares that they should not heare vnto this day Our Sauiour confirmeth the same out of the Prophet Esaie The Hart of this people is wexed fatte they heare dully with their eares and winke with their eyes least they should see with their eyes and heare with their eares and so vnderstand with their harts But blessed saith he to his Disciples are your eyes for they see and your eares for they heare In so much that the Apostle doubteth not to assure vs faith commeth by hearing when the hart beleeueth vnto righteousnesse and without hearing there is no beleeuing How shall they beleeue in him of whom they haue not heard And God requiring his people to be wise and learne saith Heare ye deafe and yee blind behold that yee may see As God then vseth no outward meanes besides his works and his words to teach vs his will so hath he giuen vs no naturall course to learne but by the eyes and
which he so much denieth The death of the body which the godly doe suffer is to this day an euill of it selfe and the punishment of sinne but God of his mercie towards his hath giuen such grace not to death but to their faith that by suffering death patiently they shal be the more plentifully rewarded But as no wise man will say the Law is euill when the wicked abuse it to kindle their lusts so may no sober man say that the death of the faithfull is good in it selfe though by Gods goodnesse it bee made to them a triall of their patience and a passage to a better life You say the nature of death is changed and not to the faithfull any longer an euill or part of the punishment and curse which was laide oâ—… sinne S. Austen saith the contrarie It is still an euill as it was and the nature thereof is not changed though the vse thereof be changed by faith and the consequents altered by Gods goodnesse Now things must bee esteemed by their nature and not by their vse as Austen teacheth For euill men vse good things euilly yet that maketh not good to bee euill because their vse is inuerted and euen so saith Austen good men haue a good vse of death which is euill yet that maketh not the death which they suffer to be good in it selfe or in nature to bee such as by Gods fauour it is to them When the death therefore of the faithfull is said by Saint Austen or any others to be good they meane the vse and not the nature thereof and when they say it is euill or a curse they meane the nature and not the vse For touching the nature thereof the Apostle who must be heard saith fully and resolutely Death is an enemie that must be destroyed euen in the godly And touching the vse thereof the same Apostle saith To mee Christ is life and to die is gaine Against this you neither doe nor can bring ought besides waste words and places either not vnderstood of you or wrested by you as spoken of the nature of death when they meane the vse of death which the faithfull haue by Gods abundant blessing Your selfe doe say The vengeance of the Law once executed on the suertie can no more in Gods iustice be executed on vs. In the vengeance of the law is comprised corporall spirituall and eternall death The whole Christ neither did nor could taste and bee a Sauiour A part he therefore tasted which was the death of his body and thereby freed vs from the rest which was due to our sinnes From the death of the body he hath not as yet wholly deliuered vs but hee will and in the meane time hee hath broken the linckes of death whereby those three were coupled together first in his owne person who suffered the first kinde of death and neither of the other and by vertue thereof hath done the like in all his Saints leauing their bodies for a season vnto death as his was that he may raise them after with greater power and glorie then if they had neuer died What doeth this hinder but death may truely bee called a Curse as in Christ so in his members and though execution of vengeance be restrained from vs yet imitation of Christ is not excluded neither is the generall sentence pronounced against the sinne of all mankinde To dust thou shalt returne reuoked but by the resurrection from the dead how then was it vengeance on Christ if it were due to mans nature Death was due to mans nature for sinne and consequently not due to Christ that had not sinned When therefore it was laide on him that deserued it not it must be taken as the wages of our sinne in his person and so was a wound to him though a medicine to vs because hee was wounded for our transgressions and wee were healed by his stripes Our publike doctrine in England set foorth by Master Nowel confirmeth as much To the faithfull death is now not a destruction but a changing of life and a very sure and short passage to heauen Euery thing that is licensed or liked as profitable to bee publikely read or taught is not by and by authorised in all things nor made the publike doctrine of this Realme You would faine oppose Master Nowel to Saint Austen who if hee were liuing would giue you no thanks therefore Saint Austens Faith hath beene allowed and receiued by all Synods and Councels since his time and by the whole Church of Christ as fit to guide and leade not onely learners but makers of Catechismes and therefore the match if they were repugnant is somewhat vnequall but indeede you haue neede to bee taught how to vnderstand your Catechisme That death is a destruction to the godly can you tell who saith so except it bee your selfe That it is a changing of life and short passage to heauen if you meane to the soules of the faithfull as the Caâ—…echisme doth no man doubteth thereof if you meane to their bodies that they by death change life and so haue a short passage to heauen it is a notable falsitie and heresie gainsaying the verie grounds of the Christian faith For priuation of sense and corruption to dust is no life much lesse an heauen except you will multiplie heauens as you do helles without reason or trueth It is most true which the Catechisine intendeth that death is this to the souls of the faithful but not to their bodies as yet till the generall day of resurrection and then the destruction of death in their bodies shall bring them to the full possession of heauenly glory prouided both for soule and bodie till that time their bodies lie vnder the dominion or power of death which is not yet destroied in euery part of vs because of sinne dwelling in our bodies though it throughly be conquered in the person of Christ and shall be likewise in vs at his appointed time As little to the purpose is that which you cite next out of the Catechisme that Death which before was a punishment is now become a vantage For he meaneth that death before had nothing in it nor after it but punishment and so was wholly and onely punishment which now by Christ is altered and made an aduantage to vs as well in respect of the manifold miseries and offences of this life from which we are deliuered as in regard of the felicitie and securitie which the soules of the Saints decâ—…ased enioy but this is nothing to their bodies which lie depriued of life and corrupted to dust till the finall restitution Neither is this a comparison with our condition before sinne in which we were created when soule and bodie should iointly haue beene translated to the kingdome of heauen without any sense or touch of death if we had stood fast in obedience but this noteth what death is after sinne committed without Christ and rightly saith that when
z Defenc. pag. 134. li. 33. Eternall continuance in hell paines is not of the essence or nature of hell tormâ—…nts So haue you said page 12. though page 53. as you often quote it there is no such thing but euen there also haue I shewed that this you say out of your owne braine the Scriptures affirme no such thing Secondly I answered you that the horror of the paines of the damnâ—…d did admit no ioy for in hell I hope there is no ioy Christ then by your owne doctrine hauing constant continual exceeding generall ioy was neither in the true paines nor in the true terrors of hell vnlesse in defence of your deuices you will now make your new heauen and your new hell to be all one For ioy in the holy Ghost you directly make to be the substance of heauenly bliâ—…ie Now if in Christ and all his members you put at one and the same time the true terrors of hell and the true ioy of the holy Ghost what misse you of mixing heauen and hell at one instant in Christ and all the faithfull A third replie I gaue in that very place to this obiection which you say I neither doe nor can answere and that was a Serm. pag. 135. li. 3. since it is no where witnessed in the Scriptures that Christ suffered the paines of hell why striue you to establish a meere conceit of men neither written nor spoken before our age All these are no answeres with you and only because you haue deuiced a new hell from the immediate hand of God with which you delude as your maner is all that the Scriptures speake of the paines of the damned But glory not in your deuice to inuent a new faith it is as much sinne as to renounce the true Christian faith which indeed is auncient and in substance as old as the Scriptures since they serue to testifie from the beginning Gods blessed will and promise of saluation vnto man through the death of Christ which God first named the Serpents biting the heele of the womans â—…eed b Defenc. pag. 135. li. After this you set vâ—…hemently against my last argument that Christ suffered not in some sort the death of the soule first if we should speake strictly after the manner of death in the bodie then no man is so mad or foolish as to say that any mans soule can die at all that is want life and sense as a dead bodie doth You be come now to the vpshot of all your defence and doctrin whether the Scriptures do any where teach that Christ died the death of the soule or the second death for our redmption and here shall we find nothing but an heape of words broched out of your braines and so tempered with your conceits that when you haue all said you say nothing with any substance or shew of holy Scripture You disclaime that the soule is at any time deuoide of life and sense as dead bodies are as if that were ought to your purpose but yet the death of the soule hath a resemblance and concordance with the death of the bodie as spirituall things may haue with corporall And therefore as the bodie being once dead wanteth all sense and motion which are the parts or effects of life from the soule quickning the bodie so the soule being dead to God who is her life hath no sense nor motion of Gods grace in this life nor sight nor hope of glory in the life to come but destitute of the one here on earth which is grace hath no desire nor feeling of God and in the next world depriued of all possibilitie of glory is subiected to eternall and intolerable miserie from the presence of God d Defenc. pag. 135. li. 24. Such a death as immortall soules are subiect vnto is Gods separation from them this is two fold the first death and the second death as the Scripture speaketh The first is the separation of them from Gods grace which is in this life by sinne raigning in them The soule loaden with sinne in this life is not vtterly dead so long as it retaineth any sense or motion of Gods grace So that sorow for sinne ioyned with any desire of true repentance is a plaine signe of life in the soule though sorrow for sinne without hope be plaine despaire and death of the soule And therefore the soule of man finding the danger of sinne and desiring to be deliuered from it yet liueth whiles she apprehendeth affecteth or seeketh the grace of God but if she want all sense of God by faith and motion to God by hope and desire she is wholy dead to God that is void of the life of God which is deriued from God vnto the soules of men As for the second death of the soule the Scriptures indeed speake thereof but you erre groslely in this second death the execution whereof alwayes followeth the first death as well of the bodie as of the soule though the guiltinesse and condemnation thereof by a mans owne conscience may be found heere in this life And therefore the second death by the open and euident wordes of the holy Ghost is called the d Reuel 20. lake of fire or the e 19. 21. lake burning with fire and brimstone which is not in this life And consequently your next collection that the second death is Gods leauing them in the feeling of the most sharpe and most vehement paines inflicted by Gods iustice for sinne is as false as it is defectiue not agreeing in one word with the tenor of the sacred Scriptures which you pretend to follow f Defenc. pag. 1â—…5 li. 30. This last kind of death is so called and named in many places of Scripture The second death is expresly named but in foure places of the Scripture The first g Reuel 2. v. 11 Be thou faithfull to death and I will giue thee the crowne of life He that ouercommeth the first death shall not be hurt of the second death The second h Reuel 20. v. 6 blessed and holy is he that hath part in first resurrection of the soule vnto the life of grace on such THE SECOND DEATH hath no power The third i Ibid. v. 14. Death and hell were cast into the lake of fire THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH The fourth k Reuel 21. v. 8 The fearefull vnbeleeuing the abominable and murderers and whoremongers and sorcerers and idolaters and all liers shall haue their part in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH Saue in these places the second death is neuer expresly named in the Scriptures and in these most apparantly the second death followeth after the death of the bodie and is euerlasting And neither on Christ who is the first resurrection vnto grace and the second resurrection vnto glorie nor on any of his members hath the second death any power by the plaine words of Saint Iohn
religious Prince aswell to examine the Scriptures with all diligence as to shew the confession and resolution of Christs Church long before our times that all the world may see I maintaine none other grounds of Faith nor sense of Scripture than haue beene anciently constantly and continually professed and beleeued in the Church of Christ for these fifteene hundred yeeres till this our present Age and the same allowed and ratified by the publike lawes of this Realme which your Maiestie in your most Princely wisdome and courage professe to vpholde and continue God for his holy Names sake blesse your most sacred Maiestie and prosper all your vertuous and Christian cares that as in learning and wisdome in clemencie and pietie he hath made you the Mirrour of this Age so in peace and prosperitie in concord and vnitie in all happinesse and felicitie he may exalt you aboue all your neighbour Princes and hauing vnited the two Realmes of England and Scotland in one subiection vnder your Princely right and regiment he will knit the hearts and hands of both to honour and serue you loue and obey you and your royall issue after you to the worlds end Your Maiesties most humble subiect and seruant THO. WINTON THE CHIEFE RESOLVTIONS OF THIS Suruey THe cleerenes and fulnes of the Scriptures in the worke of our Redemption is exactly to be reuerenced so as no man ought to teach or beleeue any thing touching our redemption by Christ which is not expresly witnessed in the sacred Scriptures much lesse may we distrust the manifest words of the holy Ghost to be impertinent or vnsufficient in declaring the true price and meane of our redemption The maine ground of the Gospell which the Apostles preached the faithfull receiued wherein they continued and whereby they were saued was this That Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures and was buried and rose the third day according to the Scriptures Since then we are reconciled to God by the death of his Sonne we must acknowledge none other death of Christ then that which he suffered in the bodie of his flesh after which he was buried and from which he rose the third day which death the Scriptures most apparently describe to be the death of Christs bodie If we were redeemed by the bloud of Christ and God proposed him to be a Reconciliation through faith in his bloud which was shed for the remission of sinnes we may not presume to appoint a new price of our redemption or new meane of our reconciliation since by the bloud of his crosse Christ hath pacified both the things in earth and things in heauen and the bloud of Iesus Christ cleanseth vs from all sinne The Scriptures doe no where teach nor mention the death of Christs Joule or the death of the damned which is the second death to be needfull for our redemption We must not therefore intrude our selues into Gods seat to ordâ—…ne a new course for mans redemption If the Spirit doe quicken and the iust liue by faith and he that abideth in loue abideth in God who is life it was vtterlie impossible but the soule of Christ in that abundance of Spirit euidence of Faith assurance of Hope and perfection of Loue which he alwayes retained should alwayes liue to God Life and death being opposed as priuatiues and so not to be found in one and the same subiect at one and the same time the soule of Christ alwayes liuing could neuer be dead Neither could a dead soule be pleasing to God who is whole life and therefore hateth death as contrarie to his nature when yet he was alwayes well pleased with Christ. Where some imagine extreame paine in Christs soule may be called the death of his soule that position is repugnant to the Scriptures for the greater the paine which the soule feeleth and endureth with innocencie confidence obedience and patience such as were all Christes sufferings the more the soule liueth and cleaueth to God for whose glorie it suffereth so much smart as appeareth in Martyrs whose soules do most liue in their greatest torments The late deuice of hell-paines in Christes passion is not only false but also superfluous for the true paines of hell neither are nor can be suffered in this life where by Gods ordinance extreame paine driueth the soule from the bodie much lesse can man or Angell endure them with obedience and patience as Christ did all his paines And what need was there of hell-paines in the crosse of Christ since God can by euery meanes or without meanes raise more paines in bodie or soule than any creature can endure Christs soule could not be strooken with any horrour of Gods displeasure against him since in his greatest anguish he professed God to be his God and his Father and by prayer preuailed for his persecutors as appeared after by their conuersion and gaue eternall life to the soule of the Thiefe hanging by him and beleeuing on him Now to giue life is more than to haue life and restore others to fauour he can not that himselfe is in displeasure Hell-fire which the damned and diuels do and shall suffer is a true and eternall fire prepared by the mightie hand of God to punish aswell spirits as bodies and this errour That the fire of hell was only an internall or spirituall fire in the soules and consciences of men was long since condemned in Origen by the Church of Christ. Reiection therefore desperation confusion horrour of damnation externall and eternall fire which are the torments of the damned and true paines of hell can not without blasphemie be ascribed to Christ. Christ therefore suffered neither the death of the soule nor the paines nor horrors os the damned or of hell Euery sinne is common to the whole man who is defiled euen with thoughts that be euill not only because the bodie is the Seat wherein and the instrument whereby the soule worketh but also for that the first infection of sinne commeth to the soule by the bodie and the first information and prouocation to sinne riseth from the senses and affections which are mooued with corporall spirits and all the parts and powers of the bodie attend the will with most readie subiection to haue each sinne which the soule conceiueth impressed on them and executed by them And therefore the suffering for sinne in the person of the Mediatour must be common both to bodie and soule in such sort that as in transgressing our soules are the principall Agents so in the suffering for sinne his soule was the principall Patient Christ would vse no power to assuage the force and violence of his paines though he wanted none as appeareth by his ouerthrowing them with a word that came to apprehend him but submitted himselfe to his Fathers will with greater obedience and patience than any man liuing could We may therefore safely beleeue That the iustice of God condemning sinne in Christes flesh proportioned the paines of his bodie in
Agonie after an Angell appeared from heauen and comforted or strengthened him with a message from God it seemeth rather an effect of Christes intentiue prayer which the Scripture there mentioneth than a consequent to any other passion or paine Christes intentiue prayer after comfort receiued by an Angell from heauen might proceed from his ardent desire care and zeale of our redemption from the wrath of God and protection from the rage of Satan And therefore as the Prophet foreshewed he should not onely beare the sinnes of many but pray for the Trespassers Christ might spend all the spirits and powers of bodie and soule in most vehement and feruent prayer euen vnto a bloudie sweat to haue all his members pardoned their sinnes and reconciled to God by the sacrifice of his bodie which he would offer for them and also to haue Satan cast out from accusing them and in the end trodden vnder their feet If Christes bloudie sweat were supernaturall we must aske no cause thereof but leaue it to his sacred will who could aboue nature doe what he would That it was no proofe of hell paines appeareth plainly because Christ after in greater paines on the Crosse did not sweat bloud and of all those whom these men imagine suffered hell paines in the Scriptures no one can be produced that euer sweat bloud The word forsaking vsed by Christ in his Complaint on the Crosse doth not in all the Scriptures inferre the paines of the damned but in the wicked it noteth reiection desperation and feare of damnation and in the godly it argueth want of protection or decrease of consolation in their troubles In Christ it might shew the time the cause the maner or the griefe of his being so long forsaken and left to the rage and reproch of his persecutors without any sensible signe of Gods loue towards him care for him helpe in his troubles or exse in his paines but it doth not prooue that Christ thought himselfe forsaken of Gods fauour grace or spirit which feare or doubt could not be in him without a manifest touch of error and want of faith Christ neuer feared nor doubted that he should or could perish vnder the hand of God persuing our sinnes in the bodie of his flesh but for the ioy set before him endured the Crosse and despised the shame and as S. Peter sayth of him at the time of his suffering he alwayes beheld God at his right hand that he should not be shaken and therefore his heart reioyced and his tongue was glad and his flesh rested in hope because his soule should not be forsaken in hell nor his flesh see corruption Christ was made a curse for vs in that he suffered the temporall and corporall curses of the Law threatned vnto sinners as all sorts of afflictions belonging to this life and in the end a painfull and shamefull death by which he abolished the spirituall and eternall curse of God due to vs for sinne but he was neuer inwardly truely nor eternally accursed of God since by tasting of our externall curse for a time he made vs partakers of his spirituall and celestiall blessednesse for euer Christ who knew no sinne was made sinne for vs that is either the punishment of our sinnes or the sacrifice for our sinnes for we were healed by his stripes and he gaue himselfe for vs a sacrifice of a sweet smell to God Being then an holy and acceptable sacrifice to God for sinne he was neither defiled nor hatefull to God with our sinnes but suffered the iust for the vniust that is he tooke vpon him the punishment of our sinnes though he were most innocent and by the holinesse of his person submitting himselfe to the death of the crosse purged our vncleannesse by his innocencie couered our guiltinesse and by his fauour with God reconciled vs that were enemies Christ bare the full punishment of our sinnes that is not all which we should haue borne for then he must haue beene euer lastingly reiected confounded and condemned to hell fire which are most horrible blasphemies but he bare so much of the punishments of this life where he suffered as in his person by the iust iudgement of God was most sufficient for all our sinnes TOuching Christs descent to hell the words are plainly cited by Peter out of Dauid that Christes soule after death should not be left in Hades which Saint Luke in his Gospell vseth for the place where torments are prepared for the wicked after this life And in that sense is the word vsed thorowout the New Testament as likewise the Greeke Fathers tooke it for the place vnder the earth whither the soules of all men were condemned for sinne and where the Diuels detaine and torment the wicked That Christ likewise descended to the lower parts of the earth and to the bottomlesse deepe after death is vouched by Saint Paul whereupon the whole Church of Christ from the beginning hath confessed his descent to hel to be a point of Christian pietie Peters Sermon in the second of the Acts intended not simply to proue that Christ was risen from the dead as Lazarus and others were but affirmed farder of him That God raised him vp to set him on Dauids Throne that is to make him King of Glorie This he prooueth In that Christes flesh could not see corruption nor his soule be forsaken in hell which was verified in none no not in Dauid who were all dead and saw corruption but only in the Messias It was therefore impossible that either death or hell should detaine Christ but he was to rise Lord of death and hell and the Sauiour of all his from both as appeared by his ascending to heauen and sitting at the right hand of God Neither was this strange to the Iewes who were taught to expect that to be performed by the Messias which God promised by his Prophet O Death I will be thy death O Hell I will be thy destruction Sheol in the Olde Testament signifieth the Graue and Hell that is the places whither the dead bodies of all men went and whither the soules of the wicked dead in sinne descended after death And therefore where it is distinguished from the death of the bodie or referred to the soule after death as it is in Dauids words applied by Peter to Christ it apparently signifieth Hell The ends of Christes descent are likewise deriued from the Scriptures as the destroying of the Diuels kingdome and triumphing ouer powers and principalities and making an open shew of them spoiling them by deliuering all his Elect dead liuing and yet vnborne from the right power and feare of eternall death taking into his hands the Keyes of Death and Hell that he might be Lord of all in Heauen Earth and Hell The Creed is not a Collection of Greeke or Hebrew phrases vnknowen to the people but a short summe of the Christian faith prouided for the simpler sort of men to learne by heart And therefore as
damned doe though in circumstances of time and place his sufferings somewhat differed from theirs Your quintessencing and new framing of another hell which the Scriptures neuer speake of your quenching hell-fire with a fansie your appointing God to be the tormentor in hell with his immediate hand your nice diuiding betweene the substance and circumstance of Gods eternall iudgements your placing the substance thereof in the apprehension of the soule and that as well in this life as in the next with a number of like audacious and desperate deuises to vphold the name or the shade of hell-paines in the sufferings of Christ wee shall anon discusse when we come to your opening of the question in the meane while the Reader must marke The question is not whether Christ bare the burden of all our sinnes on the tree or whether he were touched and tempted in all things like to his brethren yet still without sinne but whether it can be prooued by the Scriptures that Christ must beare all and the selfe same burdens of our sinnes which wee should haue borne in this life and the next and which the damned doe and shall beare Your distinction of the substance and circumstance of Gods endlesse and mercilesse vengeance of sinne in hell we shall quickly let the Reader see how vainely you presume it without all warrant of holy Scripture and how falsely you applie it to the person of Christ against the manifest Scripture if first we obserue how handsomely you set downe the doctrine which I defend in the next words to your owne hieroglyphicall question of purpose that if you cannot by trueth ouerbeare it you may at least by falshood disgrace it His contrary opinion say you we conceaue thus that Christ suffered for our sinnes nothing else but simply and meerely a bodily death altogether like as the godly doe often suffer at the hands of persecutors sauing onely that God accepted the death of his sonne as a ransome for sin but the death of his seruants he doth not Had you not seene and read my sermons printed before you made this late defence you might haue excused your selfe Sir defender by forgetting or mistaking my wordes but after so often and open repeating them in Print what cause can be imagined why you should thus apparently peruert my words and purposely forsake the points which I proposed saue onely that finding the foile and doubting a fall you would gladly slippe your necke out of the collar and seeing no better meanes you thinke it more skâ—…ll to stand wrangling about the Question then to be taken tardie with saying iust nothing in a matter of the greatest weight and chiefest regard in Christian religion My words are euery where plaine enough as well in deliuering as debating the question that Christ suffered no death saue onâ—…ly the death of the bodie by the verdit of holy Scripture and therefore whatsoeuer the Scripture speaketh of Christs death it is intended and referred to the death of Christs bodie on the Crosse and by no meanes to the death of his soule The words of my preface are these Where the Scriptures are plaine and pregnant that Christ died for our sinnes and by his death destroyed him that had power ouer death euen the Deuill and reconciled vs when we were strangers and enemies in the body of his flesh besides that the holy Ghost in these places by expresse words nameth the bodily death of Christ as the meane of our redemption and reconciliation to God no considerate Diuine may affirme or imagine Christ suffered the death of the soule When I come in my Sermons to handle that point I thus beginne it That Christ did or could suffer the death of the soule is a position farre from the words but farther from the groundes of sacred Scriptures When I shew the Fathers doe ioyne in the same resolution with the Scriptures I say Rightly therefore doe the Ancient Fatâ—…ers teach that Christ dying for our sinnes suffered ONELY THE DEATH OF THE BODIE BVT NOT OF THE SOVLâ—… Concluding their testimonies I capitulate in this wise I hope to all men learned or well aduised it will seeme no Iesuiticall phrenzie but rather Christian and Catholike doctrine that the Sonne of God dying for our sinnes suffered NOT THE DEATH OF THE SOVLE BVT ONELY OF THE BODIE If you vnderstand not these words Sir Defender your Reader will iudge you fitter to learne your abc then to dispute questions in Diuinitie if you doe conceaue them and will peruert them let him likewise pronounce whether it be sinceritie or impudencie in you thus to outface the matter against my plaine speach and to make Proclamation that I defend Christ suffeâ—…ed nothing else for our sinnes but simply and meerely a bodyly death altogether like as the godly often doe at the hands of persecutors Had you said I maintaine Christ suffered no death but onely a bodily death I would haue asked you by what Scriptures you or all your adherents can disproue it but charging me as you doe with this opinion that Christ suffered nothing else but simply and meerely a bodily death altogether like the godly I must tell you this is one of your trueths which many men will call a malitious leasing since my wordes are publikely extant to the contrarie My first resolution was Christ saw before hand that going to his Crosse he should tast all kindes of calamities and so it came to passe For betweene his last Supper and his death he was betrayed of Iudas abiured of Peter forsaken of all his followers he was wrongfully imprisoned falsly accused uniustly condemned he was buffeâ—…ed whipped skorned reuiled he endured cold nakednesse thirst wounding hanging shame reproach and all sorts of deadly paines besides heauinesse of hart and agonie of mind which oppressed him in the Garden All this I affirme Christ suffered before his death and therefore all this besides his meere bodily death to which I added all those afflictions and passions of the Soule which naturally and necessarily follow paine and accompany death You perchance would annex the paines of hell and the death of the Soule but those are the very points in question which I then did and yet doe vtterly exclude from the sufferings of Christ. Where you say I hold Christs death was altogether like as the godly doe suffer at the hands of Persecutors I know not what you meane by your altogether in some things his death was like theirs in many things vnlike A wrongfull and painefull death of the body he suffered at the hands of the Iewes as the godly doe often at the hands of their persecutors and a full perswasion he alwaies had of Gods exceeding and assured loue and fauour towards him in the middest of all his anguishes as the godly haue in theirs though in farre lesse perfection then his was but as touching the cause the manner the force of his death I make it altogether vnlike theirs
facultie of suffering though the meanes be diuers from which and by which she suffereth paines and that the meanes be farre moe than you number as namely she may suffer paine from her owne vnderstanding and will yea from diuels and from the fire of hell besides the meanes which you recken to wit her sympathie with the bodie her vehement affections and the immediate hand of God when and where pleaseth him your building is at an end you can go no farder you haue neither Diuinitie nor Philosophie possibilitie nor reason to support that which you would so faine inferre But let vs view your specialties The soule you say by the law of our creation hath in it a threefold facultie of suffering paine The soule indeed by her creation hath a triple reference to good and euill to wit her apprehension and distinction of either her inclination and motion to either and her impression and passion from both and for the performance of these she hath sundrie and seuerall parts and faculties For as man was made to know God and loue God and after a time of obedience perfectly to enioy God who is onely and wholly good so had he three speciall powers and faculties in his soule answerable to these three purposes of the Creator and yet capable of the contrarie which was the want of all good if he fell â—…rom God And therefore by the power of his vnderstanding man might discerne good and euill by the libertie of his will â—…e might elect and embrace either and by the passibilitie of his soule he might feele and suffer the impression and sequele of both by ioy or paine which God in his iustice alotted to be the end and wages of liking and doing good or euill And because for the seruice and safetie of his bodie and for the dueties and actions of this life man was to vse earthly things and also to need outward meanes for hearing the word and viewing the works of God there were giuen him senses to perceiue and sensitiue motions to desire things needfull and delightfull for him as also to dislike the euill of penurie paine and sorrow that should be occurrent to his senses In which the wisdome of God ordained that what seemed good to mans imagination should prouoke his desire with loue and delight and what seemed euill should offend him with some touch of griese the superiour and spirituall powers of the soule being giuen as Iudges to censure restraine and oueâ—…rule the sensitiue delights and motions where they swarued from the true rule of good and euill which was only Gods will reuealed or written in the heart of man The respects and diuersities of good and euill offered in generall to the sense and vnderstanding of man were sanctitie sufficiencie and felicitie with their contraries and likewise the generall passions and impressions of good and euill receiued in the soule were hope and ioy for good approching or posfessed and feare and paine for the imminence or presence of euill as also for the departure or losse of good in whose place euill which is the priuation of good necessarily succeeded The passions then of euill for true ioy and hope thereof are rather perfections than passions of the soule are feare and griefe and the meanes by which they are wrought in the soule and brought to the soule are naturally the senses and affections vnderstanding and will and supernaturally the hand of God or such externall meanes as God hath prouided to punish the soule So that first your making a threefolde facultie in the soule of suffering paines is an ignorant conceit in you as if the facultie of suffering paines were multiplied because the meanes inflicting paines are many If I should say The soule hath in it a threâ—…fold facultie of vnderstanding for that it perceiueth many things by the senses of her bodie many things by her owne light and remembrance and many things by the immediate reuelation of Gods spirit might not wise men instly deride me knowing the power and facultie of vnderstanding to be but one and the selfe-same in man though the means be diuers by which that facultie is informed Likewise the will of man is caried sometimes by the eie sometimes by the eare at the persuasion of others sometimes by her owne affections sometimes by feare sometimes by reason sometimes by grace shall we therefore say the soule hath in it a sixfold facultie of liking and electing that which is offered her or rather it is one and the same power of will which is moued and often times ruled by these sixe meanes partly from the bodie partly from her selfe partly from others and partly from God Euen so the passibility of the soule or the faculty of suffering paine is but simple and single in the soule how many soeuer the meanes be by which she receiueth the impression of paine otherwise you might as well say The soule hath contrary faculties of suffering because she feeleth contrary impressions of ioy and paine sometimes striuing together sometimes succeeding ech the other but the soule as she is furnished with her faculties to discerne and elect good and euill so is she framed to receiue the impressions of either which are contrary and in that respect capable of ioy and paine in this life howsoeuer in the next life the soule shall be perpetually fastned to the one or to the other without alteration or change As you confound the facultie of suffering paine with the causes offering and the meanes bringing the impression of paine to the soule so doe you neither fully number the agents from which nor the meanes by which paine is inflicted on the soule on which you ground your three kinds of the soules suffering of paines If the soule were not passible that is capable of ioy and paine she could neither be rewarded for well doing nor punished for euill But God hath created her receiuable of both that as she should doe good or euill in his sight so she might suffer and feele that which should be good or euill to wit ioyous or grieuous euen in her owne sense and iudgement Of both I meane ioy and paine as they are rewards of well and euill doing God alone is in this life and the next the supreame ordainer appointer effecter worker and distributer all other agents and meanes whatsoeuer seruing only his will expressing his power and obeying his commandement yet that doth not hinder but in the punishing of his owne heere or of his enemies in this world and the next God may and doth vse instruments and meanes whom and what pleaseth him to performe his will For example in this life besides Gods agents to punish which are Angels men diuels and all other creatures the meanes which he hath ordained to impresse paine in the soule are as many as there be intellectiue or sensitiue powers and abilities in the soule to foresee discerne or remember whatsoeuer euill past present or to come on vs or on
others whom we loue or to perceiue or desire any good which is lost lacking or likely to be taken from vs or from others whom we regard So that not only sympathie with and from the bodie and vehement and strong affections of zeale loue compassion pitie and care which you recken do paine the soule but the eyes and eares vpon a thousand occasions when the bodie is not touched bring feare and griefe to the heart yea the vnderstanding remembrance conscience and will which you vtterly forget doe oftener offend and afflict the soule euen of the gody than either the bodie or the affections do And in the world to come which you purposely skip to make way for your new hell besides the losse of glory sting of conscience and shame of sinne the Scriptures assure vs that vtter darkenesse ruthfullwailing horror of diuels torment of fire despaire of case shalâ—… afflict the bodies and soules of the damned with intolerable and eternall anguish as when we come to speake thereof we shall more largely proue A third errour in you is that you make your second kinde of the soules suffering paine which is by sympathie and communion with and from the bodie not to be proper to man but common to vs with beasts wherein you bewray either your vnderstanding not to be great or your intent to be vilde For though beasts haue bodies and senses as men haue and the paine of their bodies pierceth and affecteth the sensitiue parts powers of life in them yet haue they no soules I trust which can be affected the paine of their bodies as men haue I hope you be not so deepe in your distillation of hell that you will bestow soules on beasts to make them liable to your new-found paines of hell but in men their immortall spirits are and shall be afflicted by their bodies and senses both heere and in hell when the full punishment of their sinnes commeth to be layed vpon them How long will you vexe my soule saith Iob. The â—…on entred into his soule sayth the Psalmist of Iosephs fetters All is vanitie and affliction of the spirit sayth the Preacher A sword shall pierce thy soule sayth Simeon to Marie Then for the soule or spirit of man to be vexed afflicted pierced and pained by and from the bodie is proper to man and no way common to vs with beasts which haue no soules and that kinde of suffering paine which is without the bodie is not proper to the soule by reason it is common to men with diuels who haue no bodies and yet suffer paine aswell by their vnderstanding and will as by externall meanes appointed of God to punish the damned both soules and diuels Wherefore your termes of the soules proper and immediate suffering which before I called vnsalted and vnsetled and you say are easie to be vnderstood and necessarily to be vsed in this question as you now haue declared and deliuered them are false and absurd For no kinde of suffering paine is proper to the soule of man but onely that which is with the bodie or by the bodie the other kinde of suffering paine by vnderstanding and will and by hell-fire being common to men with diuels which haue no bodies and are no soules no more than soules in heauen are Angels S. Austen truely sayth Angelos habere animas nusquam me legisse in diuinis eloquijs canonicisque recolo That Angels haue soules I do not remember I haue any where read in the diuine and canonicall Scriptures Since then diuels haue neither bodies nor soules though they be spirits and beasts though they haue bodies yet haue they no soules to be pained by their bodies it is euident that the piercing and afflicting of the spirit and soule of man by the bodie and from the bodie is the onely kinde of suffering which is proper to the soule of man the spirituall affliction of the soule by her vnderstanding and will and by the torment of perpetuall and eternall fire being common to men with the reprobate Angels To the immediate suffering of the soule in hell which is another of your new-found fancies I will immediatly come if first I touch an errour or two in your former words to let the Reader see that you are vnlike to lay sure grounds in faith when you know not the plaine rules of Nature A third kinde of painfull suffering you say the soule hath namely her veheâ—…ent and strong affections are painfull whether they be good or euill as zeale loue c. I pray you Sir how come zeale and specially loue when they be good to be painfull affections in your Calender S. Iohn sayth There is no feare in loue and giueth this reason for feare hath painfulnesse presupposing it for a prinple that loue hath no paine which is most true because we delight in that which we loue and so loue hauing no paine in it but delight it hath consequently no feare by reason feare hath paine which loue hath not But if it be strong you will say it paineth the soule If loue bring delight the stronger the loue that is good the greater the delight and so the strength of loue doth not increase but exclude all paine Which is also S. Iohns rule Perfect loue casteth out feare which is the least impression of paine that may be And where loue that is good is strongest and most feruent as namely in heauen there is no place for paine and in earth when we are commanded to loue the Lord ‖ our ‖ God with all ‖ our ‖ heart with all ‖ our ‖ soule with all ‖ our ‖ strength and ‖ our ‖ neighbour as ‖ our ‖ selues must we be whollie delighted or partlie grieued with God and our neighbour The like is to be sayd for zeale which is nothing but the heat or feruencie of loue Accidentally they may turne vs to paine when our godly zeale and loue are hindred or crossed by the wicked But the thing that grieueth vs in those cases is not our loue but the leaudnesse of the wicked despising or wronging that which we zealously loue And so may all vertues paine vs. What iust man is not displeased with iniustice What liberall minde is not moued at auarice What valiant heart is not grieued with cowardice The like we shall finde in all other vertues euen an inward offence at their contraries and yet no wise man will say that vertues are paines and punishments of the soule Of compassion and pitie among the rest you say accidentally they may be punishments when they grow so strong that they grieue the soule As though there could be any compassion or pitie which doth not grieue the soule What is pity but sorow at the sight of another mans miserie and what is compassion but a vehement passion or griefe of the heart for his miserie whom we deerely loue so that there can be neither compassion nor pitie
madde mens fits than sober and Christian verities And in plaine reason how agreeth this word principall either with proper or with immediate both which are ioyned by you with it Where God is principall there vseth he other meanes and instruments besides himselfe and his owne hand Principall hath alwayes accessaries and instruments and where they intermeddle they vse not Gods immediate hand but such meanes as they are able and apt to guide So that when God is principall punisher he is neither proper nor immediate punisher but vseth the seruice and force of his creatures to perfourme his appointment and when he is either the proper or immediate executour of his owne will he neither needeth nor vseth his creatures And here the third time you play with the word proper but very improperly as you did twice before first with Gods proper wrath then with the soules proper facultie of suffering now with the proper punisher which can no way be matched with principall and applyed to God without a palpable absurditie For referre principall whether you will to the determination or to the execution of Gods wil and iudgement to say that God is the principall determiner of his owne will is a wicked speech For who is Gods counseller to aduise him or associate to assist him that God should be principall and others concurrent with him to promote his will with their consents or restraine it with their dislikes God is not only a Iudge of the world but the sole Iudge thereof to make him principall and not sole therein is to impart his right and glorie vnto others which he will not endure Wee shall see honour and admire and with heart and voice magnifie the righteousnesse of Gods Iudgement that shall be giuen by his Sonne â—…n which sense it is said The Saints shall iudge the worlde yea we shall iudge the Angels but that is by submitting our wils to his and by glorifying his iudgement as in heauen his Saints alwaies doe not by clayming voices with him There is then no Iudge of the soule but onely God and to say he is principall Iudge thereof is apparantly to dishonour him Will you referre principall to the execution of Gods iudgements then he must haue some others to conioyne with him in common and they must vse such meanes as lie in their power and so God is neither the proper nor immediate punisher of the soule where he is the principall And when it pleaseth him to take vpon him the chiefe execution of his owne iudgement what cause is there he should call assistants vnto him Doth he lacke wisedome or power that his creatures must aide and helpe him I wish you to weigh your words better before you wade in things aboue your height Your words are absurd your matter is more absurd and the proofes you bring for it are most absurd of all To bring Christs soule within the compasse of hell paines you flash out the fire of hell as a fable and turne out of seruice the rest of the torments there namely reiection from the kingdome of heauen the sting of Conscience confusion of Sinne horrour of darkenesse and diuels despaire of ease and such like as no paines or at least as no substantiall paines of hell you suppose a paine which you imagine commeth from the immediate power of God vpon the soules of the wicked as well in earth as in hell and so not onely you make God the tormentor of soules and diuels in hell with his owne immediate hande but you so aggrauate the paine thereof with fierie words that the reprobate may fully feele it in this world and yet it neither doth end their liues nor waste their bodies which a pange of the stone or a fit of an Ague will doe The best proofe you bring for all this is a bold face and bigge words wherewith you bid all the world NOTE it is so But Sir if charitie did not stay me I should NOTE you rather for an idle talker then for a booke-maker which thinke it lawfull for you to allegorize all that the Scripture mentioneth or threatneth of hell and in the end broach out of the heate of your owne head a Chymysticall hell as well in this world as in the next and so little regard either the truth of Gods speech or the faith of the whole Church or the consciences of all good men that without any further trouble or triall WE MVST NOTE you say so Such archers such arrowes such cheapmen such chaffe a man of your pitch will hardly be brought to any other passe The bottome of your building for it deserueth not the name of a foundation it is so weake and rotten is this which I wish the Reader to NOTE it is so notable stuffe That where there are but three sorts of the soules suffering paine as you conceiue the first by the immediate hand of God the second by sympathie with the bodie and the third by her vehement and strong affections The affections you say are neither immediatly for sinne nor punishments at all properly in themselues the soules second facultie of suffering by sympathie with the bodie you affirme is not proper but common to vs with beasts the first therefore in your conceit is the proper and principall humane suffering for sinne which Christ must needs feele being a man made of God to suffer for all our sinnes Of this wandring and halting diuision I haue spoken before It is euident the soule may suffer paine from and with the bodie and from and by her owne powers and faculties of vnderstanding will sense and affections and from the hand of God immediate or mediate that is vsing other meanes than are beforenamed to punish the soule That the paine of the bodie paineth the soule of man there can be no question naturall euidence and dailie experience sufficientlie confirme it and this is that which you call sympathie when both doe suffer paine together the one from and with the other Touching the eies and eares how often impressions they make of feare and sorrow for our selues and others when the bodie is not touched nor pained euerie woman and childe can giue testimonie Threats rebukes euill reports taken in at the eares dangers distresses and losses foreseene or seene in our selues and others which must needs trouble and grieue the soule are no newes in any condition or person The affections which are both vngodlie and vnrulie are so manie blasts and stormes tossing the soule to and fro with anger and feare with desire and dislike with pensiue care of earthlie things and foolish pitie with hope and despaire with vnlawfull loue and hatred with vaine ioy and vnprofitable sorrow and with a number like headie and hastie passions insomuch that they often driue the soule to rage and furie or end this life with griefe and disdaine As for the vnderstanding and will the soule conceiuing Gods iust and heauie displeasure against sinne and knowing
scourgeth euerie sonne whom he receiueth and yet he vseth him not like a beast All that will liue godlie in Christ Iesus shall suffer persecution not common to them with beasts Count it an exceeding ioy saith Iames when you fall into diuers tentations knowing that the triall of your faith bringeth foorth patience Now to impart any of these things to beasts were very strange Diuinity Blessed are they saith our Sauiour that suffer persecution for righteousnesse sake for theirs is the kingdome of heauen Shall men be blessed and enioy Gods kingdome for suffering as the beasts doe If any suffer as a Christian let him not be ashamed He that putteth no difference betwixt the sufferings of beasts and Christians is vnwoorthie to be a Christian. The same afflictions saith Peter are accomplished in your brethren which are in the world If you list Sir Discourser to take beasts for your brethren you may make your sufferings like to theirs or common to them otherwise they that are men and speciallie Christian men must acknowledge that this kinde of paining the soule by the bodie is proper to men and common neither to beasts nor to diuels There hath no tentation taken you saith Paul but such as is humane What is humane but common to all men and onely to men and so common neither to beasts nor to any other creature but proper to men Take backe therefore your vaine imagination and more foolish collection that the suffering of the soule by her bodie is not properly humane because it is common to men with beasts and learne hereafter that beasts hauing no soule much lesse anie graces or promises of God in this life or the next can not communicate with men in that kinde of suffering which the soule feeleth from her bodie and whereby she is chastised prooued perfected in this life and prepared for the glorie of the life to come At least yet you thinke the soules immediate suffering from the hand of God alone is the proper and principall humane suffering If there be any such suffering of paine as you imagine from the immediate hand of God alone it is the proper and principall suffering of deuils and not of men For humane properly it can not be vnlesse it touch the whole man that is as well bodie as soule whereof man consisteth And therefore the râ—…ll punishment of mans sinne in earth and in hell conteineth the torments of both parts without either of which there is no proper nor principall humane suffering though the soule after death be affâ—…icted for a season till the bodie be raysed and punished with heâ—… which is the true humane suffering for sinne after this life because it is euerlastingly allotted to the wicked for sinne by the most righteous iudgement of God But how prooâ—…e you Sir Discourser that the soule of man suffereth sensible and absolute paine I meane not depending on her owne cogitations or actions from the immediate hand of God what Scripture what example haue you for it It is the maine morter of your new erected hell but tempered onely with the water of your owne wit nor Scriptures nor Fathers doe acknowledge any such kind of suffering in hell from the immediat hand of God as you affirme yea they expressely auouch the contrary From the hand of God without question is all power and so all punishment whether it be here or in hell he alone giueth force to each creature to pierce and punish and he alone made the soule capable of paine from her bodie from her selfe and from whatsoeuer creature should please him to vse for the punishment of the soule Of this I make no doubt the hand of God which is the power of God ordereth strengtheneth sharpeneth continueth and worketh all paine and punishment both here and elsewhere for the time and for euer but whether he doeth this by meanes likewise ordeined and appointed by the same power either within or without the soule or by his immediate hand without all meanes this is the question and reading the Scriptures for this with as good attention as I could I find no such thing affirmed in them or prooued by you in all your Discourse Touching hell I sinde the contrarie confiâ—…med and auouched by the manifest and expresse words of the holy Ghost and in the greatest plagues and punishments of this life the meanes that God vseth are likewise mentioned in the Scriptures the immediate hand of God inflicting paine on the soule no where that I read or that you prooue which in so weightie a cause euery wise man will expect at your hands before he admit your metaphoricall flames of a new found fire deuised by you for the Soule of Christ to make it subiect to the paines of hell That God is the onely giuer of all grace by the working of his holy Spirit in our hearts without the assistance of any creature to further that action may not be doubted of any Christian. A man can receiue nothing except it be giuen him from heauen euen from the Father of lights whence commeth euery good and perfect gift For which cause the Scriptures call him the God of all grace working all in all and his Spirit the Spirit of grace distributing to euery man as pleaseth him and yet this diuision and operation of grace which proceedeth most powerfully from God alone is not alwaies immediate but dependeth on the hearing of the word partaking of the Sacraments and imposing of hands which God vseth as meanes not to helpe his power but to direct and guide our weakenesse Otherwise neither man nor Angel hath or can haue any power to touch and turne the heart or to inspire it with grace but onely God who made it and can alter and change it at his pleasure As the giuing so the taking away of all good gifts pertaining either to the vse of this life as prudence courage magnanimitie and such like or to the furtherance of the liâ—…e to come as faith hope loue and other fruits of Gods Spirit depend wholely on Gods will and worke and yet that is no let but when God hath most iustly depriued men of his grace which should preserue them from euill he may and doeth leaue the neglecters and abusers of his grace to be possessed and ruled by the spirit of errour vncleannesse and giddinesse that worketh in the children of disobedience and carieth them headlong into all kind of mischiefe Not that God performeth any of these things with his immediate hand which are wicked and impious but that by his iust iudgement he giueth them ouer which despise and forsake him to be a pray to the roaring Lion that deuoureth them Neither is Satan to seeke howe to leade men destitute of grace to all villanie both against themselues and others since he can blind the mindes of vnbeleeuers distract their wits and inflame their hearts with all sorts of
raging lustes and vntamed affections as he did in Cain Saul Achitophel Iudas and dayly doth in all the wicked In the outward punishments of this life where God turneth the furie and violence of his creatures to reuenge sinne and the seruice of men Angels and deuils to pursue the wicked to their destruction and to chastise his owne to their conuersion the hand of God doth euery where appeare by the Scriptures but that is nothing to your immediate suffering of the soule For first in them God vseth his creatures as his agents and instruments and where his immediate hand may happily be conceaued to worke without meanes there he punisheth the soule by the bodie which by your owne position is not the proper and immediate suffering of the soule In the feare shame and griefe which the soule here conceaueth vpon the denouncing conuicting or beholding of her owne vncleannesse and the terrible iudgements of God against sinne the power trueth and iustice of God are euident but not that immediate hand of God which you imagine For in this case God punisheth the soule by her selfe that is by her intellectiue or sensitiue faculties letting her plainely perceiue what ioy is lost and what vengeance is prouided for all the workers of wickednesse The losse of which blisse and terrour of which vengeance apprehended by outward sense or inward intelligence cannot but mightily grieue and afflict the soule And the greater the losse that is irreuocable as also the soarer the mischiefe that is ineuitable the deeper is the wound that either of them make in the heart of man But this feare and griefe whiles here men liue proceede from the cogitation and perswasion of the minde and conscience and not from the immediate hand of God And in the world to come the horrour of hell and rage of fire which God hath ordained to punish the soule shall inflict an intollerable torment not rising from the minds and wils of the wicked as in this world it doth but impressed by an externall and violent agent which is the meanes that God hath prepared to execute vengeance on men and deuils How beit in none of all these appeareth that immediate suffering of the soule from the hand of God alone which you so much talke of and to which you would so faine subiect the soule of Christ to make him suffer the substance of that which the damned according to your dreame doe feele in hell For in your conceit of the soules immediate suffering from the hand of God the soule must onely be a patient and no agent and God must inflict the paine on the soule with his owne hand and not by any meanes without or within the soule onely the soule must feele and discerne the present and inherent paine by her passiue power and facultie by which she is capable of all paine whence soeuer or howsoeuer it commeth This kind of suffering you euery where affirme you no where prooue and that which is most absurd you presume against the cleare words of the holy Ghost continually naming the fire of hell and threatning the wicked with it to allegorize the Scriptures at your pleasure and in stead of fire which God hath ordained and armed as a most dreadfull meanes to take vengeance of sinne you suppose a certaine paine which God with his immediate hand will inflict on the soules of the damned and that you make the substance of hell paines and fasten it to the soule of Christ for the time before he could worke our redemption or suffer the punishment of our sinnes But sir Discourser this is rather dreaming then debating of matters of faith to allegorize whatsoeuer standeth in your way and in stead thereof to imagine what you please without either proofe or pretence out of the word of God as if your mouth were the rule of Religion or the trueth of God would vanish by your fantasticall figures and shadowes Wherefore leaue your deuising and auouching what best liketh your vnquiet humour in so weightie matters of mans Redemption and tye your tongue if not your heart to the wordes of the holy Ghost that at least you may beare the shew if not the sense of a Christian man For I vtterly denie that God is either the immediate tormentour of soules in hell which is your idle and absurd imagination or that with his immediate hand God did torment the soule of his Sonne at any time here on earth as the soules of the damned are tormented in hell which is your witlesse and wicked assertion For proofe you produce the words of â—…say affirming of Christ that the Lord layed vpon him the punishment of vs all but in this as your maner is you hit neither the words nor the meaning of the Prophet The word is HAAVAH to be crooked or to go aâ—…rie and so by translation signifieth the crookednesse oâ—… wickednesse of mans life which the Prophet testifieth was layd vpon Christ in saying the Lord layd vpon him the iniquitie of vs all But grant it may sometimes by the ioyning of other words import anie punishment allotted to wickednesse doth the Prophet say that God layed all the punishment due to sinne vpon Christ or that God layed it vpon the soule of Christ both which you inferre out of the Prophets words though neither be there expressed or thence to be concluded S. Peter will tell you on what part of Christ God layd our sinnes euen on his bodie Himselfe bare our sinnes saith Peter in his bodie on the tree Now where Christ did beare them there God did lay them Christ bare them in his bodie as Peter affirmeth God therefore layd our sinnes on his bodie that by suffering death on the Crosse which was the wages of sinne Christ might make the purgation of our sinnes in his owne person Againe the sense which you would sowe to the Prophets words that God layd vpon him all our punishment that is as you would haue it all the punishment which we should haue suffered is false and wicked For so Christ must haue suffered reiection desperation and eternall damnation which the damned doe suffer and we should haue suffered had we not beene redeemed If you meane no more than the Scripture intendeth that what Christ suffered for vs in the bodie of his flesh on the Crosse was the full redemption and satisfaction for all our sinnes then are you wide from concluding out of these words that Christ suffered the paines of hell or the full vengeance due to our sinne by the immediate hand of God which is the chiefe point that you aime at This is all the proofe you offer out of the Scriptures for the immediate suffering of the soule of Christ from the hand of God and what sturdie stuffe this is the rudest reader that lighteth on your pamphlet of Defence will soone conceiue If you keepe this course in the rest of your positions the world will soone be wearie of your new-found fansies if
against them Doe I set my selfe to prooue that in hell there is materiall fire and yet am I now almost afraid so to call it It is your wont Sir Discourser not mine to take vp termes that may be turned euery way and to plant your chiefe strength vpon the doubtfulnesse of their Signification Doe I any where apply the word materiall to hell fire or doe any of the places which I cite so call it If they doe name them if not how set I my selfe to prooue materiall fire in hell without any words or proofes sounding that way Know you my meaning without my words or doe you boldly presume of my meaning against my words If by materiall fire you meane that which is maintained by wood or by such like matter as nourisheth fire and without the which fire will quench for that is one of your chiefest obiections which you say is vnanswered then doe the places which I bring plainely prooue that hell fire is not materiall For Lactantius sayth of it It burneth of it selfe without any nourishment And Gregorie It is neither kindled with mans industrie nor nourished with wood but contrary to the nature of our fire it consumeth not what it burneth but rather repaireth what it eateth as Tertullian sayth of it So that neither my positions nor probations gaue you any cause to coniecture I meant your materiall fire The places produced by me expresse the contrary and mine owne words are S. Austen long since hath plainly resolued the fire of hell is not only a true fire which were my words but a corporall fire that shall punish both men and diuels And closing I make it a point of Christian doctrine deliuered by the Prophets and Apostles and receiued by the Fathers of all ages in Christs church that the fire of hell shall be visible and sensible to the bodies of the wicked and shall eternally and corporally punish the damned according to their deserts It was therefore your foolish obiection that hell fire must be materiall if it be not allegoricall according as you dreame it was no resolution of mine nor so much as mentioned by me I saw the ambiguity of the word well enough and for that cause did refraine it from the beginning For though materiall may be that which consisteth of matter and forme and so all things that are corporall as the wind the aire the heauens are likewise materiall yet in our vulgar speech and vnderstanding to which I framed my selfe that is materiall fire which is nourished with some MATTER apt to burne and consume and in that sense hell fire is no materiall fire The end of your answer in this place is farre woorse than your entrance for there you wittingly and wilfully peruert my words by adding ONLY and ALL vnto them directly against my meaning yea when I openly admonish the Reader to the contrary I inferred by occasion of former proofs therefore the iustice of God both temporally and eternally punisheth the soule by the bodie which words are most euidentlie true since in this life without all question the soule is punished by the bodie and after iudgement the bodie being cast into hell fire shall eternally afflict the soule My words then bearing in them a manifest trueth you take the paines by interlacing them to wrest them to an open falsehood for you make me say Therefore the iustice of God both temporally and eternally punisheth the soule ONLY by the bodie Now this is as false as the former was true for God in this life doth often punish the soule by her selfe and vntill the last day it is as certeine the soules of the wicked departed hence are punished without their bodies which so long lie dead in the dust of the earth What conscience this is for nothing in you must be impudence though it be neuer so shamelesse of an euident trueth to make a palpable errour by adding ONLY to my wordes which I carefully and purposely did auoide let the Reader iudge But the proposition inducing this conclusion you will say is generall to wit all prouocations and pleasures of sinne the soule taketh from her bodie all acts of sinne she committeth by her bodie the conclusion thereof you thinke should be likewise generall therefore ALL the soules paines for sinne both temporally and eternally is by the bodie Your thoughts Sir Discourser bewray your owne follie they must not marshall my reasons I can expresse mine intent without your helpe Out of a generall assumption what Art hindreth me to auouch an indefinite and particular conclusion especially when I meddle with Gods matters whose power and will in iudgement no rules of reason can binde or limit And if I would needs expresse the forme of a syllogisme as you vainly imagine I meant to doe in these words I neuer learned out of a negatiue for the maior to draw an affirmatiue for the conclusion but had not your eyes stood in your light it was easie for you to haue seene both what the conclusion must be by force of the premisses and how in respect of him that is all-iust and yet allmighty I thought not good to restraine him to my conclusions but to inferre in sted thereof that which sufficiently depended on the conclusion and could haue no question either in holy writ or dayly vse Both the premisses are orderly and plainly set downe in my writing and not loosely and ignorantly misplaced as yours are by putting the cart before the horse and taking that for the maior which with me is a part or appendix of the conclusion My words stand thus Nothing is more proportionable to Gods iustice than to ioyne them in paine that were ioyned in sinne and to retaine the same order in punishing which they kept in offending But all prouocations and pleasures of sinne the soule taketh from the bodie all acts of sinne shee committeth by the bodie What boy now knowing the first principles of Logicke doth not presently perceiue the conclusion must be therefore nothing is more proportionable to Gods iustice than both temporally and eternally to ioyne bodie and soule in paine which were ioyned in sinne and to make the bodie the instrument of her paine as it hath beene of her pleasure This conclusion is an vniuersall negatiue and yet doth not exclude all paine of the soule without the bodie to be vnagreeable to Gods iustice as you pretend I meane but auoucheth no paine to be more agreeable than where bodie and soule are both ioyned in suffering as they were in offending And because no punishment is more agreeable to Gods iustice than where both soule and bodie are coupled in paine as they were in sinne though it be no way against Gods iustice to punish the soule for a season without the bodie Therefore which is the inference that I vse the iustice of God both temporally and eternally punisheth the soule by the bodie that as it hath beene the instrument of her
pleasure so it shal be of her paine You affirme not only my meaning but my reason to be this that God temporally and eternally punisheth the soule ONLY by the bodie I vtterly denie that I haue any such reason words or sense but that you purposely haue inserted the word ONLY of your owne to make my reason seeme false and foolish which otherwise is sound and sure You mistooke you will say my meaning you did it not of malice Your mistakings Sir Discourser are indeed very grosse as shall well appeare when we come to your fairest forts but in this by your leaue you could not mistake me except you were bereaued of your wits and senses I not onely prouided that my words should import no such thing as you dreame of but to cleere all cauils when I had made some proofe out of Cyprian Ierom and Tertullian for the second proposition of my reason I moued the question my selfe and answered it with as plaine and precise a deniall as I could deuise to vtter These are my words Do I then denie that the soule hath any sufferings in this life the next which come not by the body BY NO MEANES For though those conioyned sufferings be most answerable to sinnes committed yet the soule hath some proper punishments in this life as sorrow and feare when the bodie hath no hurt from which Christ was not free as appeareth by his agonie and so in the next the soules of the wicked haue griefe and remorse besides the paine of fire These punishments in this world and the next the soule suffereth not by her body nor from her body how then should I meane that God temporally and eternally punisheth the soule ONLY by the bodie or that ALL the soules paine for sinne is from the bodie as you make me to speake both without and against mine owne words Whether this dealing sauour of vnshamefastnesse or no iudge thou Christian Reader as thou seest cause The maner of the Discoursers carriage in the entring and ending of his answer I might not omit Now to his matter The midst of his answer is a medley meet for a man of his learning and iudgement the summe of it is this All my proofs out of the Fathers runne to prooue corporall and materiall fire except the Scriptures by me alleaged which vtterly prooue nothing at all For his part he seeth no reason to beleeue that now there is corporall fire in hell which is only our question or els nothing whatsoeuer shal be heereafter when the bodies shal be tormented with their soules Lastly Austen here doth not proue there shal be such sire after the resurrection be only sheweth the maner how it may be so heereafter if God will Now if the power of God only be all our reason we may as well proue the skie is fallen All the rest of the Fathers say nothing further nor indeed so farre as Austen Whether ten ancient writers all Christian and Catholike fathers relying themselues on the manifest words of holy Scripture and ioyning in one confession of the trueth be not more to be trusted and better beleeued than H. I. of Paules Chaine let the poorest prentise in London iudge As for the Scriptures if you Sir Deuiser and such other busie heads may allegorize them when they contradict your humors from Genesis to the Apocalypsis they shall vtterly proue nothing at all against you for what is there in them which you may not peruert with your fansies and figures if nothing shall be plaine and proper that any way seemeth vnsauourie to your reason The Fathers haue for that which they affirme the exact and euident words of holy Scripture and not so few as Twenty Places of the New Testament witnessing without any parables or allegories fire to be threatened and performed to the wicked in the world to come Whereupon with one consent they haue all resolued and professed it as a setled ground of Christian religion that hell fire to which Christ shall adiudge the wicked at the last day shal be a true externall and sensible fire I meane seene and felt of all the reprobate in their soules and bodies To this our new Patriarck of Pater-noster Rew answereth Austen doth not proue there shal be such a fire he only sheweth the maner how it may be so heereafter if God will Now if Gods power onely be all our reason we may prooue aswell the skie is fallen Gentle Sir if so many vouchers from Christes owne mouth and from his Apostles following their masters steps be no proofe with you nor sufficient witnesse of Gods will you haue some aduantage against S. Austen and all the rest of the Fathers for presuming vpon Gods power without the knowledge of his will but if those proofs be more then pregnant then looke to your allegories lest they prooue you to be a proud presumer against the Scriptures and an arrogant despiser of the Fathers where they accord with the word and will of God It is not enough for you Sir Deuiser to rowze your selfe and say YOV SEE NO REASON you must take the paines to yeeld good reason why you depart from the literall and proper signification of the words vttered by the sonne of God And since you can pretend none but want of power in God to performe the words which he hath spoken in their proper sense all the godly will see great reason to refuse your fansies and figures as idle shifts to decline the cleerenesse of the sacred Scriptures The Scriptures you say shew no more any corporall or materiall or true fire to be now in hell than a corporall worme materiall brimstone much wood and true chaines which I called a sleeuelesse obiection but neither I nor Austen whom I cite against it doth any where answere it Of the worme mentioned in Christes words their worme neuer dieth I shewed you S. Austens iudgement which might content a farre greater Clerke than you Neither is he alone in that opinion Gregorie Nyssene sayth I heare the Scripture affirme that the damned shal be punished with a fire darknesse and worme quae omnia compositorum ac materialium corporum poenae cruciatúsque sunt all which are the punishments and torments of materiall and compounded bodies Basil deliuering what terrours shall be presented to the eyes of the damned in the day of iudgement amongst other things nameth a darkish fire that hath lost his brightnesse but kept his burning 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and a venimous kinde of worme feeding on flesh and raising intolerable torments with his biting Iosephus a Iew liuing in the Apostles times and no stranger to the Christian faith in his oration to the Greeks which Damascene doth mention and Zonaras doth cite speaking of the finall iudgement of God to be executed by the person of the Messias sayth There remaineth for the louers of wickednesse an vnquenchable and neuer ending fire 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and a
whatsoeuer is within hell is nothing but fire God perfourmeth that hell shall flame with perpetuall fire euen as in many places and hilles of the earth an unwasted store of brimstone is found that euen thence we may gather there may be Riuers and lakes of brimstone in hell All these things the Almightie knoweth how to prepare that these torments may â—…itte both Soules and bodies so that we haue no neede to dispute whether this fire and brimstone be corporall and if it be corporall how it worketh vpon spirituall substances The Lord as I now said can fit all these to either part of man that in truth they may be inflicted as well on the bodies as on the spirits of the damned which here the Prophet foretelleth If thou hadst rather dispute against them and wilt not now beleeue these things doubtles thou shalt one day trie them by experience Gualter vpon the same place Esaie teacheth what heil is The inside thereof is fire that is how deepe and wide soeuer hell is it is all fire and burneth euerlastingly For so he describeth the sharpnes of the punishment which the wicked shall there suffer And lest any should aske what matter can suffice to maintaine such a fire the Prophet saith there is great store of wood He that made hell hath plentifully prouided that the fire there shall neuer goe out For filthie lustes and lewd actes not purged by â—…aith and guiltie mindes yeeld perpetuall matter and maintenance to those flames Yea and the bodies also of the wicked shall be incorruptible that they may suffer continuall fire and flame and dure therein He mentioneth also a streame of brimstone whereof the Apocalypse speaketh that we should remember and consider those things which are in nature For so many ages hath the fire of Aetna continued and still doth casting vp flames of brimstone He then that kindleth these things in nature without the helpe or assistance of men he also can kindle and maintaine the fire of hell that it shall neuer faile Musculus commenting vpon the 25. of Mathew sayth Those who measure all things by the rule of reason and thinke nothing firme that cannot be comprehended by mans witte dispute how it is possible that the body should alwaies burne in hell and not consume which is repugnant to the nature of the body They likewise dispute how fire can burne not onely bodies but also wicked spirits which haue no bodies These curious men thinke that to be against nature which is done by Gods will neither doe they consider the nature of all creatures to haue and be that which they haue and are by Gods commandement Others quarrell with the qualitie of the fire and thinke it no corporall but a metaphoricall fire which they take â—…or an exceeding paine and sorrow of minde This they gather out of the 9. of Marke where Christ saith their worme dieth not and the sire quencheth not Here as by the name of worme no corporall worme is to be vnderstood but a great and continuall remorse of mind so they thinke by the word fire no corporall fire but a metaphoricall must be conceaued I take it to be rashnes and not the part of a christian man thus to dispute of the qualitie of this fire but rather leauing the certaine knowledge thereof to the Iudge to prouide that we trie it not one day what manner of sire it is Zanchius very soberly and learnedly examining this question resolueth in this sort It is certaine the diuels together with all the wicked shall be in euerlasting fire and therein tormented Christ plainely professeth he will say to the wicked depart into euerlasting fire prepared for the diuell and his Angels What manner of fire it shall be I dispute not because the Scripture doth not expresse it but this is without question that not onely the soules of the wicked but also their bodies shall suffer torment FROM THIS FIRE and therefore the fire such as may worke vpon their bodies and inflict on them a farre greater paine then our materiall fire doth impresse on vs. What qualitie soeuer it shall be of it seemeth it shall be altogether a corporall creature which may worke vpon bodies and torment them Which being so IT IS MANIFEST the diuell shall suffer paine and torment from a corporall thing I meane from this sire and that euerlastingly therefore it is called eternall and vnquenchable fire And asking your question How is it possible that spirituall substances should suffer from corporall he answereth We haue an example in our selues in whom the soule suffereth many things from the body by her coniunction with it Againe what can resist the power and will of God Let this doubt therefore depart from the minds of the faithfull I produce these later writers of great learning and good religion as I might many moe to let thee vnderstand gentle Reader that I neither presse the Scriptures nor cite the Fathers to any other purpose but to that which by all their iudgements is Christian and catholike and howsoeuer some men otherwise learned but carried with this new conceite of Christs suffering the essentiall paines of the damned to colour their deuise call these things in question yet the most aduised and sufficient Diuines of our age haue clearely confessed that which I teach to accord with the holy Scriptures and to be held of the godly without contradiction The ancient Fathers of Christs Church vphold the same doctrine and teach the fire of hell to be an externall visible and true fire and not a spirituall and internall paine onely as this Discourser intendeth With no speech sayth Chrysostome can any man expresse it here but els where we shal see it most plainely Set now before thine eyes that horrible way which shal carrie thee headlong to the fire and the deuils readie with torments and the persons deliuered to such cruel tormentors These things shal be in that day Let vs alwayes thinke on these things sayth Austen lest it repent vs too late when we come to the sight of eternal fire For the burning pit of hell shal be laid open there shal be a descent but no ascent Call to minde saith Basil that terrible tribunal of Christ which no creature may indure there must euery one of vs be presented to render an account of his life About those that haue liued wickedly shal stand fearefull and grisly angels beholding the sire and kindling it Then shall they see a deepe gulfe and darkenes that no eyes can pierce through and an obscure fire that with blackenesse hath lost his shining but kept his burning Alas saith Cyril what a place is that where is weeping and gnashing of teeth which is called hell which the deuil himselfe abhorreth Alas what a Gehenne of vnquenched sire is that which burneth and shineth not how venemous is that worme which neuer resteth how terrible is that deepe and euerduring darkenesse how cruel in
that whatsoeuer it were though you can neither prooue nor expresse what it was Gods very wrath and proper vengeance for sinne though outwardly executed on the body could not but sinke deeper into the Soule and wound the soule properly yea chiefly though the anguish thereof bruised the bodie ioyntly also It is well yet at last that you find your selfe ignorant of some things and that you will not take vpon you to expresse in what precise manner or iust measure the wrath of God was reuealed and executed on Christ. For whiles you broched those secrets more boldly then wisely or truely you ranne your selfe out of breath and brought neither substance nor shadow of holy Scripture to warrant your vanities but daunced vp and downe with certaine licentious and ambiguous phrases of GODS PROPER VVRATH MEERE IVSTICE VERY VENGEANCE and such like flowers neither confirmed by the Scriptures nor so much as expounded by your selfe but because you checke your owne presumption I will spare it and come to that which you professe your selfe so resolutely to know that Gods very wrath and proper vengeance for sinne though outwardly executed on the body of Christ could not but sinke deeper into the soule and wound the soule properly yea chiefly though the anguish thereof bruized his bodie also Wherein notwithstanding you keepe your accustomed phrases of Gods very wrath and proper vengeance which you neither doe nor dare describe by the parts thereof that we may discerne the trueth of your speech yet for their sakes that are simple I am content shortly to examine what wrath from God Christ suffered as farre as the Scriptures direct vs at whose hands he suffered it and what he did and must conceaue of those his sufferings There is no question but power to feele conceaue and discerne by sense reason or faith in man belongeth properly yea onely to the soule of man Life sense and motion appeare in the body and haue their actions perfourmed by the instruments of the body but euen in them the power and force that quickneth and mooueth the body and discerneth by the senses of the body commeth from the soule and so dependeth on the soule that the soule departing from the body leaueth it voyd of all motion sense and life Then in all Christs sufferings when any violence lighted on his body the paine pearced into his soule and his soule not onely fully felt the anguish thereof but rightly discerned the fountaine whence the cause why and the meanes by which it came Christ likewise knew himselfe to be endewed with such might and strength that of him selfe he could not onely resist the whole world if he would but euen commaund and represse men and diuels His ouerruling of seas windes and wicked spirits and giuing his Disciples power ouer them is so euident and often in the Scriptures that no Christian may be ignorant of it After his agony in the Garden with the word of his mouth he threw to the ground the whole band of men that came with Iudas to take him and when by this meanes he had shewed him selfe not destitute of his wonted force and vertue he voluntarily submitted him selfe not onely to be bound and brought whether they would but euen to be whipped mocked wounded hanged and euery way vsed at their pleasure Which he did not to satisfie their wicked rage but to obey the will of his heauenly Father who when he would punish the sinnes of men in the person of his owne Sonne Deliuered him into the hands of sinners from them to suffer whatsoeuer the hand and counsell of God had determined before to be done For those things which God before had shewed by the mouthes of all his Prophets that Christ should suffer he thus fulfilled by the malice of some and ignorance of others whom Satan incited with the greatest contumely and crueltie they could deuise to take Christs life from him In all which Christ suffered nothing but what the determinate counsell and foreknowledge of God purposed and appointed should be done For this was the Cup which his father gaue him to drinke and this was the houre and power of darknes when the Prince of the world came against him howbeit neither man nor deuill could haue any power at all against him but what was giuen them from aboue So that in all those wronges reproches and paines which were offered and inflicted on him by the rage of Satan and the wicked he saw the secret counsell and hand of God punishing our sinnes in his bodie and by that meanes satisfiyng the diuine iustice that was prouoked by our transgressions But no where doe the Scriptures deliuer that God with his immediate hand tormented the soule or body of his Sonne much lesse that he impressed the very paines of hell and of the damned on the soule of Christ which is your new found Redemption and satisfaction for the sinnes of men By his agonie in the garden you boldly and rashly presume it but by what logick you conclude it neither doe I conceaue nor can you declare Christ was SORROVVFVLL and AFRAID in the garden and began to be AMAZED ergo you thinke he felt or foresaw he should suffer the paines of the damned from the immediate hand of God Well these may be your hastie thoughts but this hath no ground in Arte reason nature or Scripture For many other things Christ might feare and this of all other things he could not feare How many things are there in God when we approach his presence how many things proceede there from God when we aduisedly marke his counsels and iudgements which may iustly ouerwhelme the weakenes of mans flesh with admiration and feare euen to astonishment The brightnes of Gods glory the greatnes of his power the deepenes of his counsels the sound of his voice the presence of his Angels the sight of his vengeance prepared or executed on others how many good and perfect men haue these things strooken into feares and mazes When Saint Iohn in the spirite sawe the shape of the sonne of man and heard his voice he fell downe as dead for feare When Daniel had seene the vision of the goat and the Ram he was afraid and fell vpon his face yea he was stricken and sicke certaine daies being astonished at the vision When the parents of Sampson saw the Angell ascend toward heauen in the flame of the Altar they fell on their faces to the ground and one of them said we shall surely die because we haue seene the Lord. When a light from heauen suddainly shined round about Paul as he was trauayling to Damascus he fell to the earth trembling and amazed When Isaac perceaued that he had ignorantly blessed Iacob in steede of Esau he was stricken with an exceeding great feare and trembling When the people saw the Creeple walking that was dayly layd at the gate of the Temple to aske almes and
contemning or despising of the Fathers But you will proceede to the speciall examples wherein I charge you with despising the Fathers and I will not be long after you First where you say out of certaine Fathers that Christ in his dying gaue vp his spirit miraculously no violence of death wresting it from him as it doth ours but when he saw his time he euen at an instant laid it downe of himselfe Contrarie to this I alleaged the Scripture HE VVAS LIKE VS IN ALL THINGS sinne onely excepted To answere this you reply was he like vs in his birth Can we lie in the graue without corruption as he lay Or raise our selues from death as he did Which poore answere I wonder to see comming from you As well you might shew farder he was not like vs in that he walked on the water nor in that he fasted fortie dâ—…s nor in that he knew the secrets of mens harts nor in that he turned water into wine and with a word healed all diseases These things done by his manhood yet were they the proper effects of his Godhead they were no naturall but spirituall things You may wonder at what you will and though your proofes and replies be not worth the paper you wast yet you so powder them with figures and fansies that you thinke them very pretious Where I obserued out of Augustine Ierome and Bernard that the manner of Christs death was not like ours though his death were the same that ours is I meane the separation of the soule from the body by reason he had perfect sense and strong speech euen to the very instant that of his owne accord when he saw his time he breathed out his soule whereas both speech and sense doe faile in vs before we die and our soules are taken from vs we can not breath them out when we will to impeach this obseruation you cast out first reprochfull words and then vntidy proofes such as your store could best affourd Here a fine fable is offered vs say you a Paradoxe in nature and contrary to the Scripture which saith HE VVAS LIKE VS IN ALL THINGS sinne onely excepted This scornefull speech and bare pretence of Scripture misapplied to your peeuish conceite is all the answere you vouchsafe to those auncient and reuerend Fathers I meane Saint Austen and Saint Ierome To repell this pride of yours and to make you perceaue the misconstering of the Scriptures I shortly replyed Was Christ like vs in his birth in his graue or in his resurrection If he were vnlike vs in these and yet those words must stand true then might he also be vnlike vs in his death and no proofe out of those words could be made to the contrarie At this poore answere you wonder but you and your adherents lay your wits together as you haue done your heads you shal neuer refell this answere as poore as it is without confessing the weaknesse of your owne proofe For if you restraine the text which you brought to naturall humane properties and infirmities as now you doe then most apparantly his birth and his graue must in all things be like to ours for they are in vs naturall humane properties or infirmities To be borne of a Virgin not to rotte in graue and to rise from the dead Those Diuine effects you say are iustly beleeued to haue beene in Christ because of the expresse Scripture that witnesseth the same But then the text which you vrged he was like vs in all things must haue an other meaning then you made shew of And so it well may for euen in his birth in his graue and in his resurrection he was like to vs though not in euery circumstance thereof His body was made of the seede and substance of his mother as ours is though she a Virgin and we were begotten by our Fathers It also lay senselesse and dead in the graue as ours doth though it could not returne to dust as ours shall He rose from the dead to a celestiall and immortall life and so shall we but not when we will nor of our owne power as he did So that he was like vs in all things that is in euery part of our nature and in euery kind of humane infirmities but not like vs in euery action circumstance or consequent of all humane properties and infirmities For so we should depriue him of that fulnesse of wisdome grace and power wherewith his humane soule was indued farre vnlike to ours not only if we respect naturall properties and infirmities in vs which are vtterly voide of these gifts but if we compare our measure of knowledge grace and strength with the abundance of his spirit Then might he be like vs euen in death also which parted his soule from his body as it doth ours though he were vnlike vs in power to dye when he would which we can not and retained full force of sense and speech to the very moment of giuing vp his Ghost which we doe not Againe the words following in the Text He was like vs in all things SINNE EXCEPTED are a sufficient exemption of Christ from our manner of death as well as from our kind of birth and rotting in the graue For we are borne in sinne which he might not be therefore was to be borne of a Virgin to auoid all concupiscence as well of a Father as in his Mother without whom he could not be made our flesh So rotte we in the graue by reason of sinne dwelling in our bodies which must be changed into dust whence we were taken in reward of our first fathers sinne from whose loynes we come with like infection of sinne This Christs body might by no possibilitie admit though you in the margin of your booke make a false note to the contrarie First for that no part of his person might vtterly be dissolued or corrupted after it was once vnited to his Godhead but must remaine for euer inseparable from his Diuine nature and so incorruptible because God was vnited not to dust or ashes but to humane flesh which so must still continue Secondly for that all Christs sufferings for sinne must haue in them exact and perfect obedience and so precisely sense and will in euery passion to submit himselfe to the hand of God which in death he might doe and did but in rotting iâ—… the graue where sense and will wanted he could not doe Lastly the Apostle extendeth Christs obedience in suffering no farder then to the death of the Crosse after which could follow no fatder humiliation and so no corruption to dust but a sure confirmation of his death by lying three daies in the graue and a plaine pledge of his resurrection because he could not see corruption The same words exempt Christ from our manner of death For where death entred not but by sinne and the soule of ech man to this day by a naturall instinct sheweth her secret abhorring of death and open
right sense as you be readie for a shewe to admit them this matter were ended S. Austen speaketh indeede of Christs voluntarie and powerfull dying but he doth not meane as you doe that Christ was onely willing to die as religious and godly men are which desire to depart this life but that he died quia voluit quando voluit quomodo voluit because he would when he would as hee would And giuing the reason of his speech out of the Scripture though you proudly and falsely say he hath no strength of reason by the Scripture he learnedly and truely pursueth it in this sort Where the spirit is farre better then the bodie and it is the death of the spirit to be forsaken of God as it is the death of the bodie to be forsaken of the spirit and this is the punishment in the death of the bodie that the spirit because it willingly forsooke God shall vnwillingly leaue the bodie neither can the spirit leaue the bodie when it will vnlesse it offer some violent death to the bodie the Soule or Spirit of Christ the mediatour did plainely prooue that he came to the death of his flesh by no punishment of sinne in that he forsooke not his flesh by any meanes against his wil but BECAVSE HE VVOVLD VVHEN Hâ—… VVOVLD AND AS HE VVOVLD Therefore he said I haue power to lay downe my soule and haue power to take it againe None taketh it from me but I lay it downe of my selfe And this those that were present GREATLY MARVAILED AT as the Gospell obserueth when after that loud voyce he presently gaue vp the ghost For they that were fastned to the tree were tormented with a long death Wherefore the two theeues had their legs broken that they might die But Christ was WONDRED AT because he was found dead which thing we read Pilate marueiled at when Christs bodie was asked of him to be buried There is more sound Diuinitie in this one Chapter of S. Austens then in both your Pamphlets though you pretend S. Austens wordes conclude nothing nor against you nor for me Where you may learne for it is fitter for you to be a scholler then a writer till you haue learned to leaue your wilfull humours and to giue â—…are vnto the sage and wise Fathers that were pillars of Christes Church many hundred yeeres before you first that for the punishment of sinne the death of the body was inflicted on all mankinde in which the soule should depart from her bodie against her will and not when she would nor as she would Secondly that the manner of Christs death was cleane contrary to ours he gaue vp his spirit of his owne accord and power when he would and as he would Thirdly his giuing vp the ghost so presently vpon his loude prayer was wondered at by the standers by and by Pilate himselfe when he heard of it Whether this conclude my purpose I leaue to the iudgement of the discreete Reader your no as it lightly commeth without cause so with me it goeth as lightly without regard But Austens words which I first quoted prooue not so much You take vpon you to refute first and last why skip you then that which is cited in the midst Grant Austens words to be true as indeede they are most true which are alleaged in the first place and my purpose is fully concluded Theâ—… prooue that no man can SO SLEEPE when he will as Christ died when he would that no man can so put off his vesture when he will as Christ put off his flesh when he would that no man can so leaue the place where he standeth at his will as Christ left his life when he would And if so great power appeared in him dying with what power shall we thinke he will come to iudge Where voluntary dying in Christ doth not onely import that he was content and willing to die as Paul was when he desired to be dissolued but that he left this life by separating his soule from his bodie when he would hauing at that present when he parted his soule from his bodie perfect memoriâ—… sense and speech and breathing out his soule of his owne accord with more facilitie and celeritie then we can lay off our garments or change the place in which we stand And from this admirable power by which he layd downe his soule and tooke it againe at his plâ—…asure Austen draweth a comparison to the exceeding greatneâ—… of that power with which he shall come to iudge the world With Austen ioyne all the Fathers of Christs Church that eaer spake of this matter and the best Diuines of latter ages confesse the same Athanasius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To haue power to lay downe his soule when he would and to take it againe this is not the propertie of men but it is the power of the Sonne of God For man dieth not by his owne power but by necessitiâ—… of nature and that against his will but Christ being God â—…ad it in his own power to separate himselfe from his bodie and to resume the same againe when he would Origen An non Dominus singulare quiddam prae omnibus qui in corpus aduenerint de seipso dicit doth not the Lord affirme a thing that was peculiar or singular to him aboue all that euer were in the flesh when he saith None taketh my soule from me but I lay it downe of my selfe and haue power to lay it downe and power to take it againe Let vs consider what he meaneth who left his bodie and departed from it without any way leading to death This neither Moses nor any of the Patriarkes Prophets or Apostles did say besides Iesus For if Christ had died as the theeues did that were crucified with him we could not haue said that he layd downe his soule of himselfe but after the maner of such as die But now Iesus crying with a strong voyce gaue vp the ghost and as a King left his bodie His power greatly appeared in this that at his owne free power and will leauing his bodie he died Gregorie Nyssene Memento Dominici dicti quid de seipso pronunciet is a quo pendet rerum omnium vis potentia quomodo ex plena summáque potestate ac non ex naturae necessitate animam à corpore seiungit Remember the Lords words what he pronounceth of himselfe of whom dependeth all power how with full and soueraigne power and not by necessitie of nature he seuered his soule from his bodie as he sayd None taketh my soule from me but I lay it downe of my selfe I haue power to lay it downe and power to take it againe Gregorie Nazianzene maketh the mother of Christ thus to speake vnto him after his death Comming I heard thy voice vnto thy father 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and thou suddenly departedst this life as leauing it willingly Ierome With a faint voice or rather
Whereupon Pilat maruailed that Christ was so soone dead And the Lord himselfe said None taketh my soule from me but I lay it downe of my selfe I haue power to lay it downe and power to take it againe To which it pertaineth that is written he bowing downe his head gaue vp his spirit for other men first dye and then their heads hang but Christ first laid downe his head and then voluntarily rendered his soule to his Father Many moe might be brought of all ages and places confessing the same but if these suffice not what may be enough I doe not know To decline the Scriptures and Fathers that make against him the Discourser hath deuised two shifts very like the rest of of his tenents that is void of all truth and iudgement I deny not saith he but Christ might shew some strange vnusuall thing apparantly to the beholders in vttering his last voice which might very much mooue the beholders and hâ—…arers Adde hereunto that experience sheweth as Phisitians say how some diseases in the body bring death presently after most strong and violent crying Namely in some excessiue torments as of the stone Things reported and expressed in the Scriptures touching the strange and wonderfull manner of Christs death you deny and dreame of things there no way mentioned to coulour your matter and cosin your Reader That Christ did render his soule into his Fathers hands when as yet neither speech sense memory nor motion began to faile is diligently obserued by the Euangelists and was greatly marueyled at by the Centurion which saw the manner of his death As also that he breathed out his soule of his owne accord when he had spoken those words without any former or other degrees or pangs of death appearing in him is likewise witnessed by the Scriptures and constantly auouched by all the Fathers Saint Luke saith and speaking these words he breat hed out his soule Saint Mathew and crying with a loud voice he dismissed his spirit Saint Marke and sending a strong voice from him he blew out his Soule This did he of his owne accord and power None taking his soule from him as in death they doe ours but declaring himselfe by laying of his soule when he would and as he would to be Lord and master of life and death This is fit for all Christians to confesse least they dishonor the death of Christ by depriuing his person of that power and glory which he openly shewed in the eyes eares of all his persecutors This you shift of and instced thereof imagine some strange and VNVSVALI accident in the manner of Christs death which neither the Scriptures report nor you can expresse wherein you shew your selfe forward to inuent what is not written and backward to beleeue what is written which is the trade of such men as meane to make a shipwracke of their faith That a man may dye crying as Christ did you haue found at length if not from Diuines at least from Phisitians for I perccaue you haue sought all sorts of helps both farre and neere to vphold your fansies Pâ—…rchaunce Phisitians may tell you when a painefull disease possesseth the parts which are no fountaines of life or sense a man may cry till sense and strength begin to faile and so hasten his death by the violent spending of his spirits but that a man may by any course of nature retaine perfect memorie sense motion and speach to the very act of breathing out his soule I assure my selfe no wise Phisitian will affirme And if any more humorous then learned will wade so farre without his Art he must vnderstand that his word may not ouersway the Rules of Diuinitie and Principles of nature For what are the powers and faculties whereby the soule is conioyned with the body but life sense and motion so long then as they last the soule by nature neither doth nor can forsake the body But when sense and motion first outward and then inward are oppressed and ouerwhelmed then life also perisheth and the soule may no longer abide in her body the vnion by which she was fastened vnto it being wholy dissolued Wherefore death which is the priuation of life by Gods ordinance for the punishment of sinne by degrees surpriseth and in the end quencheth all sense and motion and so forceth the soule to forsake her seate which by Gods appointment is violently parted from hir body whether she will or no but neuer till the effects oflife which are sense and motion be first decayed and abolished A sowne is the suddainest ouerwhelming of the powers of life which any natural experience doth teach vs and yet therewith though outward sense and motion doe faile at an instant and the inward be very weake and almost insensible the soule doth not presently depart but stayeth a time till all sense and motion without and within except the partie be recouered be vtterly extinguished Wherefore in all men by necessitie of nature the powers and parts of life decav in some sooner in some later before they die and therefore in Christ on the Crosse it was MIRACVLOVS and aboue nature that hauing full perfect outward and inward sense speech and motion he did in a moment when he would and as he would render his soule into the hands of his Father without any farder decayes or other degrees of death precedent then the very act of breathing out his soule which left his body presently and perfectly dead Thou hast gentle Reader the causes and prooses that mooued me to obserue the manâ—…r of Christes death to bee different from ours which whether they be consonant to the Scriptures and rightly conceiued by those learned and ancient Fathers which I haue named vnto thee I leaue to thy discrecte iudgement assuring thee there is nothing to hinder the maine consent of so many old and new writers in a matter of so great consequence but onely the headdinesse of this discourser who vpon a bare pretence of one peece of Scripture not well vnderstood and worse applied thinketh he may worke wonders and conclude all these graue and sound Expositours to be so ignorant of the sense of that place and so vnable to reach to the depth of those words Christ was LIKE VS IN ALL things that with one accord they would affirme a sine fable a Paradoxe in Nature and contrarie to Scripture Howbeit it is no newes with this man to defend that Christ was distempered ouerwhelmed and all confounded both in all the powers of his soule and senses of his body He boldly auoucheth it was so with Christ before his death in the Garden and on the Crosse and therefore hee presumeth it might much more befall him at his death But let him keepe these secrets to himselfe I doubt not Christian Reader but thou wilt be well aduised before thou put the Sauiour of the world and the Sonne of God out of his wits or senses to make way for
any reason or learning ergo Christs dead bodie depriued of soule and sense was the whole Ransom for our sinnes for that he meaneth by Christs death or ergo no action nor passion of Christs soule before or on his crosse was meritorious If I say these conclusions doe necessarily follow out of those words or out of the meaning of them then I must confesâ—…e I am fowly ouershot in my speach But if these be most ignorant and absurd collections from my words and from theirs that vsed that speâ—…ch before me then mayest thou see Christian Reader what meaning this man hath throughout this booke purposely to peruert and misconster all that I say to make thee beleeue I broch some strange and wonderous Doctrine But shifts lâ—… hid but a while the shame in the end will be his How then can that which I sundrie times teach of Christs sufferings in his soule be true if our whole ranâ—…om and propitiation be bodily bloudy and deadly only which is the point â—…here stand on What contradiction finde you in my words that Christ might haue and had sufferings in his soule as feare sorrow and affliction of minde and yet died no death but only a bodilie Only a bodily death doth not exclude all paines which are not bodily but all deaths saue the death of the bodie Wherefore my conclusion is whâ—…re it was That the death which the Mediator must suffer for sinne by the Apostles doctrine must onely be bodily and bloodie and therefore by no meanes the death of the soule or of the damned Yet this â—…as not our whole râ—…some you say nor the whole sacrifice for sinne the sufferings of his soule must be added vnto it When I speake of Christes death I vnderstand that maner and order of his death which the Euangelists describe for so the Scriptures meane when they speake of Christes death and from that death I doe not seuer those sufferings of his soule which the Scripturâ—…s mention because the sharpnesse of that death which his body was to suffer draue him to the deepe consideration of the cause why of the Iudge from whom and the captiue for whom he suffered Christ otherwise had not suffered death as a Redeemer if he had been ignorant of any of these or compelled by force to endure the furie of the Iewes he had power enough to stay their rage decline their bloudie hands yea to auert or decrease the paines as he thought good but because he was to offer himselfe as a willing sacrifice to suffer death to saue vs from the wrath of his Father he layed aside his owne power and submitted himselfe wholly to be disposed at his Fathers will which the Scriptures call his obedience vnto death When therefore he foresaw and felt how sharpe and painfull that death would be and was which he must and did suffer for our sinnes was it possible he should not fully cast the eyes of his â—…inde vpon the horror of our sinnes which did so sting him vpon the fiercenesse of Gods wrath which did so pursue him though he were his innocent and only sonne and vpon the terrible vengeance that rested for vs if he should mislike or refâ—…se to beare the burden of our offences If any man learned thinke it possible for Christ to suffer the one and not in spirit most cleerely to see the other I am content he shall seâ—…er the sufferings of Christs soule from the griefe and anguish of his bodily death but if it be more than absurd so to conceiue then finde we that the sight and sense of Christes extreame torments in bodie caused and vrged his soule thorowly to beholde these things with feare and sorrow which in themselues were most fearefull and could not châ—… but affect Christes soule deeply and diuersly As for the whole ransome of our sinne we shall haue occasion in the next reason more largely to treate of But you haue reasons you say to confirme your maine matter among manie these two the first the Iewish sacrifices shadowing and foreshewing the second the sacraments of Christians testifying and confirming that the true sacrifice for sinne was bodily and bloudy Still what trifling is this doth any in the world denie that the true sacrifice for sinne was the bodie bloud and death of the Redeemer Wherefore the proposition must be as I did set it in your behalfe the Iewish sacrifices were shadowes or figures and our sacraments were signes of our whole and absolute redemption by Christ I say of the whole and entire propitiatorie sacrifice or els you shrinke and leaue the question When I lacke one to set propositions in my behalfe I will send to you for helpe till then spare your paines except you might reape more thanks But you must learne to get you plainer termes or at least more plainly to expound them if you will needs be a setter of propositions for what is the WHOLE sacriâ—…ice propitiatorie and what is our WHOLE redemption By the whole sacrifice meane you the whole person of Christ that gaue himselfe for vs or intend you the whole action whereby he sanctified submitted and presented himselfe as a sacrifice of a sweet smell vnto God or by the whole vnderstand you all that in Christ was deuoted and deliuered vnto death for the satisfaction of Gods iustice And so our whole redemption doe you referre it only to remission of sinnes as the Apostle doth when he sayth We haue redemption through Christes bloud euen the forgiuenesse of sinnes or also to deliuerance from the dominion and infection of sinne and to the abolishing of all corruption in soule and bodie which is our whole and absolute redemption When the powers of heauen shall be shaken and the Sonne of man come in a cloud with power and great glorie then lift vp your heads sayth Christ for your redemption draweth neere You are sealed by the holy Spirit vnto the day of redemption sayeth Paul And Dauid God shall redeeme their soules from deceit and violence that is he shall deliuer their soulâ—…s The Saints as the Apoâ—…e speaketh were racked and would admit no redemption to obtaine a better resurrection where by redemption he meaneth deliuerance As Zacharias sayd God hath visited and sent redemption to his people that is saluation or deliuerance from our enemies and from the hands of all that hate vs to serue him in holinesse and righteousnesse all the dayes of our life So that our whole and absolute redemption compriseth all the degrees and steps of our saluation as iustification sanctification and glorification and these though they were merited and obtained for vs by Christes obedience vnto dâ—…ath yet are they performed and accomplished by diuers other meanes therewith concurring and thereon depending as by the grace of his spirit the working of his power and glory of his comming And therefore the words which you haue set in my behalfe are like their authour that is they are
the hole that you would faine hide your selfe in To that intent which I set downe my reasons drawen from the Iewish sacrifices and Christians sacraments did and doe still stand effectuall For the olde sacrifices must figure and the new Sacraments must seale whatsoeuer death in Christ was the full and perfect ransome of our sinnes But they foreshew and confirme the bodily death of Christ onely they neither shew not signifie the death of the soule nor the death of the damned Therefore the bodily death of Christ onely is the full and perfect ransome of our sinnes the death of the soule and the death of the damned as they serued nothing to our Redemption so were they not suffered in the soule of Christ. Two cauils you offer against the first part of this reason touching the sacrifices of the fathers before and vnder the law One that they figured not the whole sacrifice as neither Christes Deitie his soule nor his resurrection the next that all the sacrifices of the Iewes did not signifie his bodily death because the Scape goate which was a sinne offering was not slaine Of trifling you talke much this is more then trifling it is plaine shifting Christes deitie could be no part of that sacrifice which suffered for sinne the diuine Maiestie can not suffer either paine or sorrow To what ende then come you in with Christes Godhead when you talke of his suffering for sinne His soule you say was not figured by those sacrifices The suffering death in his soule was indeed no way figured by them but that the mediatour should haue an humane soule to bee separated from his body by death before hee could make purgation of our sinnes that was more then figured by those sacrifices For since not the blood of beasts but of man and euen of the Sonne of God made man was by Gods promise to be shed for our sinnes It is euident that from life to death he could not come but by seuering his soule from his body And consequently he must haue a soule being a man which must be powred out vnto death before he could die euen as the powers of life in bloody sacrifices were parted from their flesh before they could be offered as sacrifices vnto God But I charge you vntruely when I say you expound your whole and absolute Redemption to be of all the fruites and causes of our Redemption you haue no such word nor meaning as fruites Your words are our whole and absolute Redemption and those I say containe the whole course of our saluation euen vnto the last step which is our glorification as I haue formerly prooued by Christes owne speech Againe if the resurrection of Christ which is your owne instance bee a part of that propitiatorie sacrifice because it was a necessarie consequent then all the benefites that Christ obtained for vs or bestowed on vs must be comprised in that his oblation for sinne For they are all necessarie consequents and effects of our Redemption and depend on these two branches his death to free vs from sinne and his resurrection to raise vs into a new and heauenly life now for euer He was deliuered to death for our sinnes and rose againe for our iustification From these two heads the Scriptures deriue not onely forgiuenes of sinnes but newnesse of life on earth and happinesse of life in heauen Yet you did not call them fruits Effects you called them and what is a ioyfull effect such as was Christs resurrection but a fruit and that as well in Christ as in vs When the Prophet saith of Christ he shall see the trauaile of his soule and be satisfied what meaneth he but the fruits and effects of Christs labour when for his obedience to death God highly exalted him and gaue him a name aboue euery name that euery knee should bow vnto him what is this but a fruite and reward of his humiliation first in his owne person then proportionably in all that be his Many of the Iewes sacrifices yea most of them did represent and signifie Christs bodily sufferings onely yet not all Therefore you may well deny mine assumption as you did before and affirme that certaine Iewish Sacrifices set forth the sufferings euen of the soule of Christ and not of his body only Did I any where say that all the Iewish sacrifices were bloudy or that all of them did represent Christs death and blood shedding Could I be ignorant that the Iewes had oblations made onely by fier as of flower wine and incense and also offerings of the first fruits and other things dedicated or presented to the Lord for the vse of his tabernacle and Temple Doth not the Apostle say Euery high Priest is ordayned for men to offer GIFTES and SACRIFICES for sinne Where gifts shew that things without life were offered as well as liuing beasts and birds which were slaine As then there was no cause nor neede I should so I neuer vsed the word ALL in that case vnlesse I added liuing or BLOODY Sacrifices For they by their life lost and blood shed figured the death of Christ Iesus But this ALL is your adding to my wordes that you may take occasion to pike some quarrell at them But you may well deny my assumption that no sacrifices of the Iewes did figure the sufferings of Christs soule I assumed no such thing neither did I meddle with the sufferings of Christs soule vnlesse they were the death of the soule or the paines of hell which the Scripture calleth the second death and I the death of the damned because none besides the damned die that second death but you plainly giue me the slip and conuey your selfe from speaking of the death of the soule or of the death of the damned which are the things in Question to the sufferings of the soule in generall of which I make no Question And though your meaning be vnder the sufferings of the soule to comprise the tormenting of Christs soule by the immediate hand of God with the selfe same paines which the damned do feele in hell Yet such is your cariage that euery where you suppresse your maine intent and make a faire shew with the sufferings of Christs soule as if you ment no more but that Christs soule must needs haue some sufferings proper to it selfe which you confesse I sundry times teach and yet you make your Reader beleeue I euer impugne You shall doe well to awake out of this slumber and call to minde that there are no sufferings of Christs soule now in question but the DEATH of the SOVLE or of the DAMNED which you dare not openly auouch and therefore you plaster them ouer with smoother termes of the sufferings of the soule to hide your secret mysteries till you meete with itching eares that will listen more to fansies then to faith Another peece of skill you shew in this place to ease your selfe of all proofe and thinke it enough if
whether you make the Soule of Christ mortall as your words here stand because he suffered the death of the soule as you imagine or whether this were the scape of your Printer but by such demonstrations as these are supported with figures and fansies of your owne making you may prooue what you will That the Brasen Serpent was a figure of Christs death Christ himselfe witnesseth Whence you may inferre after your manner that Christ had no true flesh nor felt death For the Brasen Serpent had neither flesh to feele nor life to loose So the Lord expresseth that Ionas was a figure of his lying in the graue and yet was Ionas aliue in the Whales belly May it therefore be concluded that Christ was neuer dead nor buried because Ionas indeede was neither Figures haue a resemblance to some things in Christ not to all as the brasen Serpent to his fastning on the Crosse and sauing all that beheld him in faith Ionas to the time that he lay in his graue and to the impossibilitie conceaued of his resurrection So the Scape-goate notwithstanding your must needs be and could not be mighâ—… signifie the impassible godhead of Christ as Theodoret and Isychius affirme since power to take away sin and to cleanse it without any suffering for it is proper to God It might likewise resemble the detestation and hatred the Iewes had of Christ when they cryed away with him away with him if the vsage of the people towards the Scape-goate were such as Tertullian describeth which was to spit at him punch him and curse him as he was caried out of the Citie And where he went away aliue for all their spites and wrongs that might declare either his resurrection into life eternall which they could not touch or else the disposition of his life here not left in the peoples hands but reserued to his owne power till he did willingly offer it as a sacrifice vnto God Ambrose saith of him Quasi arbiter exuendi suscipiendique corporis emisit spiritum non amisit As hauing power in himselfe to lay aside and to take againe his body he sent foorth his soule he lost it not And likewise Eusebius When no man had power ouer Christs soule he himselfe of his owne accord laid it downe for man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 So loosed from all force and resting free him selfe of him selfe made the departure from his body This the Scape-goate I say might figure as some ancient Fathers auouch your reasons to the contrary are but rushes vnfit to conclude such a cause considering that no figure agreeth in all things with the truth for then it should be no figure but the truth and you collect some small disagreements betweene the figure and the truth Againe as you suppose for some petite difference the Scape-goat could not figure the deity nor body of Christ so I vpon stronger grounds collect it could not signifie the proper sufferings of Christs soule if your word were of any waight your selfe auouch that which I entend Those bâ—…asts sacrifices say you could not prefigure the immortall and reasonable soule of Christ. If that be true which is your owne auerment how could the Scape-goat which I troe was a beast as you say a sacrifice figure the sufferings of Christs soule which were inward and invisible as was his soule Can you so closely conuey contradictions as in your treatise to tell vs the sacrifices of beasts could not prefigure the immortall soule of Christ and in your defence to assure vs it must be ofnecessitie that the Scape-goat signified the humane soule of Christ Besides if the Scape-goat signified Christs soule sent away from his body for the other goat was first slain it must of force import Christs death for without death his soule was not separated from his body And so by your vrging that it could not signifie Christs death you plainly confirme it did signifie Christes death Thirdly the place whither the Scape-goat was sent was the Wildernes and a land vnhabitabie Now the soule of Christ seuered from his body went to heauen as you hold or to Paradise Is heauen or Paradise with you become a wildernes a land not inhabited Fourthly the Scape-goat after he was sent away did beare vpon him all the sinnes of the people Dare you say that Christs soule departed from his body did beare or suffer the punishment of the peoples sinnes Your meaning is but to shew what you thinke to be indeed most probable and likely knowing that yet some such matter as you ayme at they doe signifie without Question After it must be of necessitie come you now with probabilitie and is your doubtles so soone turned into likelihood The Reader is well holpen vp to rest on your word and to beleeue SOME SVCH MATTER AS YOV AYME AT But backe to the matter indeed and then your Reader shall finde euen by your owne confession besides my proofes that you do but ayme at these things vpon the bare surmise of your own braine and that you can shew no sacrifices of the Iewes which did figure the proper sufferings of Christs foule much lesse the death of his soule which is the matter that we differ about howsoeuer you would now loose your necke out of the coller We reade of other sacrifices consisting of sacrifices of sundry and diuers sorts The bloody sacrifice had conioyned together with it the vnbloody sacrifice of the meate offering and an other of the drinke offering Which may very likely represent vnto vs the sundry and diuers kinds of Christs meritorious sufferings in his life time and at his death You coniecture still so farre from truth that few men will regard your coniecturall likelihoods Why Salt Flower Oyle and Wine were added to the carnall sacrifices of the Iewes much may be ghessed litle can be prooued They might well serue to make the sacrifice the sweeter and the fuller and so resemble the fragrancie and sufficiencie of Christs death but what reason you haue to make Christes life to be thought his death and his merits all one with his sufferings and things without sense or life to figure the sufferings of his soule and you know not what besides I doe not see but onely that your will is your best weapon when you be put to the push of any proofe Yea in the same side where you reiect the iudgement of Cyrill Ambrose and Bede as wide coniectures and palpable mistakings you come in with your foolish supposals and offer them to all the godly as matters of good moment onely because you fansie them But mocke not your Reader with may and must as you thinke your thoughts must be wiser and neerer the truth before a meane man will regard them Who but I you say would defend these palpable mistakings of the auncients and not see the expresse text against them Nay who but you would so peremptorily
it is which the Scripture so calleth were not coherent with that incorruption which they shall haue there The one is not the other but the one is so consequent to the other that without holines in earth no man shall euer enioy happinesse in heauen And to both doth the imitation of Christ and signification of fire in the holocaust direct vs. Comming to the next reason you reprooued me for saying Sacraments are earthly Elements they can not set out the spirituall and â—…uisible effects in Christ. There was iust cause I should tell you that this your asseâ—…tion did mainly crosse the very nature and definition of a Sacrament For Sacraments are visible signes of inuisible graces that is of the spirituall effects of Christs power and grace abiding in him and yet working in vs. Wherein did I wrong you you ment they vsually represent not spirituall and inâ—…sible effects or acts in Christ him selfe but onely the externall and visible parts of his passion The two Sacraments of the new Testament Baptisme and the Lords Supper doe they represent onely the externall and visible parts of Christs passion Doth Baptisme shew no more in Christ but that actuall and substantiall water ranne out of his side after he was dead Is this the whole signification and repâ—…esentation that baptisme offereth vnto vs Surely you must leaue Catechising and learne to be catechised if this be all your skill in Sacraments The bread and wine on the Lords table besides the reference which they haue to the body of Christ broken and his blood shed doe they not plainly shew the flesh of Christ is meate and his blood drinke nourishing our soules to euerlasting life as the elements support and maintaine the life of the body Water in Baptisme doth it not declare the power of Christs death washing our soules and of his spirit renuing our minds These you say are spirituall effects wrought in vs not in Christ. Power to clense quicken nourish and strengthen to eternall life is that Christs or ours We indeede are the persons that are clensed quickened nourished and strengthened but the force and grace working these things in vs is Christs and not ours We receiue it as flowing from the fountaine but it naturally springeth in him and from thence is deriued to vs. The Sacraments then teach vs that the fulnesse of power and grace dwelleth in Christ really and truely which he is content shall worke in vs but neuer leaue him The water washing the bread nourishing the wine comforting note no power in vs to do any of these things it is euident impietie so to thinke or say onely they assure vs that as Christ the true owner of all these things by his obedience vnto death was made the onely disposer of them so he will performe the couenant with vs which the Sacraments doe seale vnto vs and that is the couenant of mercie and grace in this life and of glorie in the next which the Sacraments could not seale except they did signifie those gifts and effects to be actiuely and originally in the giuer as they are passiuely in the Receiuers VSVALLY Sacraments doe not represent spirituall effects or actes in Christ. When text and trueth faile you your fashion is to flie to phrases and so still to say somewhat though it want both learning and vnderstanding For example Sacraments you say doe not VSVALLY represent spirituall effects or acts in Christ. Did you speake of nature which often faileth or of men who change their minds vsuall and vnusuall might serue for some purpose but what is this to Sacraments they constantly and continually keepe the same order in their significations and representations so that vsuall and vnusuall in them are all one The nature of the Element is still the same the action prescribed may not be varied the promise annexed neuer faileth on Gods part So that what any Sacrament once resembleth or signifieth it alwayes expresseth and obserueth the same Will you diuert your wordes to diuers Sacraments and make that vsuall to one which is vnusuall to another This which you vsually exclude from Sacraments is common to both the Sacraments of the New Testament of which we reason and being common to them both as I haue shewed to signifie spirituall effects or acts in Christ himselfe with what trueth say you now THEY do it not vsually speaking of both whereas both do it apparently and perpetually It is your selfe indeede that denieth the very definition of a Sacrament for your maine assertion is that neither the Iewish sacrifices nor Christian Sacraments doe signifie any more then the bodily and bloâ—…dy death of Christ which I hope was a visible and no â—…uisible thing Your Reader will shortly take you so often tardie with foule-lies that hee will skant beleeue you when you speake a trueth Is it any position of mine that the Iewish sacrifices and Christian Sacraments doe not signifie any more then the bodily and bloudie death of Christ Indeede I afâ—…irmed they signified none other death of Christ but only that which was bodily and bloudie which I gâ—…ant was visible but as for other effects of Christs power grace by which we are grafted into Christ and quickâ—…ed and nourished vnto life euerlasting Ireferred them to the Sacraments of the new Testament as vnto Seales confirming the couenant of mercie grace and glorie made to vs by the death of Christ in the same words that I now speake it And so conclude of them as I doe now These propose vnto vs no inuisible paines of hell but the body of Christ wounded and his bloud shed for the remitting of our sinnes and vniting vs vnto Christ. Therefore your turning no inuisible paines of hell which are my words into no more then a bodily death which are yours and vnder pretence of those words excluding from the Sacraments all other significations and representations of Christs inuisible power and grace proposed by them sheweth your accustomed vain of misconstering and altering my words when you cannot otherwise impugne them You make me to crosse the institution of the Lords table because I said the Ceremonie of breaking the bread cannot properly belong to Christs body But euen here doe I not expressely say that it sheweth forth how Christs body was broken for vs Where by Christs institution the bread was BROKEN to note vnto vs the breaking of his body for our sinnes and Paul expresseth that similitude of the bread broken to Christes body in saying The bread which wee breake is it not the communion of the body of Christ and to verifie that resemblance reporteth the words of Christs institution in effect to be these This is my body which is broken for you you to make a siely shew that the Sacraments declare Christs suffering of Hell paines auouch that the. breaking of the bread cannot properly belong to the body but to the soule and to the body by Sympathie
with the soule Wherein you first denie the Similitude betwixt the bread and the body of Christ to be true in deedes but onely in words because you doe not acknowledge the violence offered to Christs body by his persecutors to bee any kind of breaking properly and truely For howsoeuer with bigge words you talke of the anguish of Christes soule bruising his body ioyntly also yet when you come to expresse your selse plainely you say This grieuous passion was in his soule immediatly and properly seeing then his body was not touched with any smart And since all sense of paine is in the soule if by breaking you vnderstand not the violence offered to Christes body in vaine come you in with your Sympathie which may shew itselfe in the body but not bee felt of the body by reason the powers of sense are in the soule and so you controle the Apostles words as voide of all trueth whiles you referre them truely and properly to the soule and not to the body but onely by Sympathie The grounds whereon you denie this Analogie betwixt the bread and the body of Christ are as absurd and false as the Conclusion which you build on them and are in number foure 1. That Klômenon in Greeke is BROKEN TO PEECES properly 2. That MEDVCCA in the Prophet Esay is also broken to peeces properly or crushed and beaten to POVVDER 3. That Christes body was not properly broken 4. That the breaking of the bread into many peeces doeth first and immediatly set out the breaking of his soule In all which you violently follow your owne fansies as your maner is against all diuine and humane testimonie For first 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not by his proper signification import that only which is broken in peeces as you meane peeces wholly parted the one from the other Looke backe to your Lexicons to which you appeale and namely to that of Budaeus Tusanus and Constantinus which Crispine Printed Anno Domini 1562. or to that which was a fresh Corrected and enlarged by Gâ—…snerus Iunius Xylander Cellarius Honygerus and others and Printed at Basill 1584. and see whether Klân whence Klômenon commeth bee not there expressed by frango flecto and luxo and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which are to breake bow vnioynt bruise or cut And though Robert Steuen in his Thesaurus set downe none other signification to the verbe Klân but frango to breake yet hee doth not thereby meane onely breaking of bones or making of peeces as you ful wisely intend but to breake generally whatsoeuer or howsoeuer And so Klân is to breake the straitnesse of any thing by wrying or bowing it and the coherence of any thing by straining tearing or cutting it and the roundnesse or fulnesse of any thing by bruising it Aristotle in his Problemes sayth that as we clime vp the hill 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the knees are bent or strained backward as we goe downe the hill 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the thighes are bent or strained forward as also 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with Hippocrates is the straining of a ioynt where he saith that in holding the hand forth right 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the bowing of the ioynt at elbowe is strained For so doth Galen expound him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The offer to stretch out the arme directly straineth the ioynt at elbow 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the out side And Lucian describing the iesture of a Tragicall person sayth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Bowing and straining himselfe In all which Klà n doeth not import any breaking of bones nor making of any peâ—…ces but the straining of the ioynts by which the body or the parts thereof may be bowed He â—…ychius saith klân is likewise to cut expressing it by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to cut vines which Theophrastus calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the cutting of vines with whom Suidas Phauorinus the Greek Scholiast vpon Aristophanes agree deriuing the metaphoricall signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from cutting the tender branches of vines and other trees which are properly called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because they wil turne and bowe euery way and the hooke that serueth to cut them is named 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Yea the very breaking of bread in Christes institution to which the Apostle resembleth the violence offered to Christes bodie the Greeke church neuer so vnderstood that it was not or might not be done with kniues For besides that the ancient leiturgie vnder the name of Chrysostome mentioneth a sacred knife in forme of a lance wherewith the bread was cut which is there expressed by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Germanus Bishop of Constantinople reporting the vse of the Greeke Church in his time continued fro former ages saith the Lords body 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is cut with a knife which they call a launce out of the bread and though that be diuided yet Christ remaineth whole and vnparted 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in euery piece of the bread so cut That klân is also vsed to signifie the tearing or bruising of fleshie parts where no bones at all are broken Hippocrates the father of all learned Physicke speaking in his owne Art most skilfully and truly doth cleerely witnesse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lesse dangerous are any of the bones broken than where the bones are not broken but the vaines and sinewes adioyning are on euerie side bruized If the vaines and sinewes of mans bodie are properly sayd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when they are bruized or torne with any violence the flesh of man which is full of vaines and sinewâ—…s to bring bloud and sense to euery part of the bodie can not be bruized with staues or torne with whippes and thornes as Christes was but those vaines and sinewes spreading themselues thorowout the flesh must likewise be bruized and broken which Hippocrates calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 though the danger be the lesse because the veines and sinewes seruing to that vse the more outward they come the smaller they are And lest you should still dreame as you doe that there is no breaking of any thing in mans bodie but of bones and that when the pieces be wholly seuered one from the other Galen a man past exception in his facultie telleth you that in violent hurts of the hands or feet by leaping falling or straming 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the knitting of the bones rather breaketh than the bones themselues Where the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is put to signifie the losing and tearing of the ioynts when the bones are not broken which Galene auoucheth is the properest word that the Greeke tongue hath for breaking of bones and vsed almost of euerie man that is acquainted with the Greeke tongue Of breaking he likewise saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a part may be broken the rest
that is whole quem fractum comminutum vidimus in Passione which wee saw broken and bruized in his Passion Of this bread the Lord himselfe sayd The bread which I will giue is my flesh And indeed whosoeuer shall duely consider the violence done to euerie part of Christes bodie before and on the crosse shall find a farre sharper and soâ—…er kind of breaking than if his legges had beene knapt in sunder as the theeues were and see iust cause why Paul compared the breaking of Christes bodie to the breaking of the bread though you idlely or falsely say it was ONELIE PIERCED or boared thorow For if by piercing you meane all kinde of violence that impressed any paine in the bodie then is piercing farre larger and grieuouser than your kinde of breaking which is of bones and more than such piercing Christes bodie needed not to answer the similitude of breaking the bread But if by piercing you meane boaring thorow as you seeme to expound it then did Christes bodie suffer manie violences as buffeting striking whipping piercing with thornes and such like which were no borings thorow And so there is either no weight or no truth in your words that Christes bodie was only pierced and boared thorow Vainly you charge me I know not how often against my expresse words that I call hell heauen and descending ascending but here it is no wrong to charge you with such an absurditie indeed who expresly do make that which you say is FIGVRATIVE to be a proper denomination If I charge you falslie when you come to the place conceale it not in the meanetime if there were any inconuenience in this as there is none it was the tracing of you in your owne termes For you argued that Christes bodie could not be sayd properly to be broken because no bone of his was broken and consequentlie it is your collection that if a bone which is but a part of Christes bodie had beene broken the bodie of Christ which is the whole might be sayd to haue beene properly broken Mine answer was that since Christs bodie had other parts besides his bones which by his owne words are conteined vnder the name of his flesh if any parts of his flesh were truelie broken the whole body might be sayd to be properlie broken as well in respect of his flesh as of his bones What absurditie find you in this that first proceeded not from your selfe But were the words mine owne when I speake as a Diuine of the proprietie of signification calling that proper which is not metaphoricall and affirme that as the sense of the word BROKEN was proper in a part of Christes bodie so must it likewise be proper and not metaphoricall in the whole because the whole which taketh his denomination from a part must retaine the same signification of the word which was verified in that part what boyes play is it in you to come from metaphors to other kinds of figures and to trifle with termes of proper and siguratiue when I opposed proper to metaphoricall and childâ—…shlie to charge me that I speake contraries with a breath As if one and the same speech might not be figuratiue in expressing the whole for a part which is Synecdoche and yet reteine his proper signification and be no metaphor Except therefore your Grammar be so great that euerie Synecdoche must needs be a metaphor and your Logicke so little that you can not distinguish a subiect from a predicate I see no cause but one and the same speech or proposition may be figuratiue in the subiect by vnderstanding the whole for a part and yet proper in the predicate by reason the sense thereof is not metaphoricall For these be figurae dictionum not orationum figures of words not of sentences As in our case whether Christes bodie were properly broken or no if the bodie which is the subiect in that proposition by Synecdoche be taken for a part then broken which is the predicate must the rather be properlie and not metaphoricallie affirmed of that part which was truelie broken how beit as I thinke since the proper sense of breaking was verified of all or the most parts of Christes bodie it must likewise be verified of the whole bodie But omit these Grammaticall and Logicall points wherewith manie Readers are not acquainted and come to the verie pitch of my words I doe not affirme that the whole for a part is a proper speech as you conceiue me but that the whole from a part may properly and not metaphorically take his denomination That a man speaketh writeth heareth seeth tasteth smelleth and such like are they proper or figuratiue speeches in your censure Proper I thinke and yet no part in mans bodie is the instrument of speech besides the tongue of writing besides the hand of hearing besides the care of seeing besides the eye of tasting besides the mouth of smelling besides the nose Infinite are the actions of the bodie naturallie executed by certaine parts as eating drinking sleeping spetting coughing weeping and other such which no man in his right wits will affirme to be figuratiue actions or speeches in man and yet in them all a part doth denominate the whole In the vertues and vices of the mind as for men to be wise sober diligent patient liberall learned mindfull watchfull and such like or the contrarie shall we say that men be figuratiuely and not properly and truely such because these are gifts of the minde and not of the bodie The verie essentiall parts of man as vnderstanding will reason sense and appetite shall they likewise make figuratiue speeches in men because none of them are common to all the parts and powers of bodie and soule but in euerie of them a part doth denominate the whole It may be you will not greatlie sticke to turne Porphyries predicables and Aristotles predicaments into Mosellanes tropes and make figures of them all what say you then to the branches of Christian faith and trueth are they also figuratiue and improper speeches That Christ is the sonne of God and the sonne of Dauid that he was borne of a virgine and circumcised in the eight day that he fasted hungred and was tempted that he eat and slept wept and waxed weary that he was buffeted whipped and crucified that he died for our sinnes and rose for our righteousnesse that he ascended into heauen and thence shall come to iudge the quicke and the dead and an infinite number of the like are all these figuratiue speeches in your conceit I hope you be not so fastened to figures that you will make vs a figuratiue faith and a figuratiue Sauiour and yet in all these a part doth denominate the whole Your eyes therefore were somewhat close or your wits wandering when you could not see the difference betwixt taking the whole for a part and denominating the whole by a part which is so common and constant both in Diuinitie and Philosophie that in all naturall
and necessarie actions passions and proprieties the whole receiueth his attribute from a part And so my words rest sound and true both in humane reason and in holie Scripture notwithstanding your vaine proclamation of so cleere and expresse an absurditie in them But you must be borne with your humor is so sharpe and your head so shallow that your left hand knoweth not what your right sâ—…ibleth Your despising the Ecclesiasticall historie as a fable is a sparke of your pride from which few ancient writers are free howbeit the Scriptures are plaine enough for my purpose to proue that Christs body was truely broken They witnesse that the Iewes buffeted him with their sistes and smote him with their Sâ—…rieants staues thar Pilate scourged him that the souldiers platted a crowne of thornes on his head and then did beate him on the head with reedes and roddes that his crucifiers digged his hands and seete and pulled all his bones out of ioynt and that in this plight the waight of his body hung on the crosse three houres by the wounds of his hands feete and when he was dead his side was pearced with a speare besides the mockes wrongs and taunts that were offered him on euery side and yet all this you say is not in any sense proportionable to the proprietie of the word KLO'MENON and MEDVCCA You prate of PROPRIETIES and proportions to no end but to colour your absurdities and presumptions What Christian Reader will endure you to say that the Apostle in applying the word KLO'MENON to the body of Christ had neither proprietie nor proportion to the right sense of the word If he did not speake properly in those words which is broken for you as I thinke he did yet at least he must speake metaphorically and figuratiuely and so keepe a resemblance and proportion to the originall sense of the word except your wisedome will auouch that the holy Ghost ignorantly and vnaduisedly abuseth the word Which if you confesse of your selfe I will easily beleeue because you neither know what you affirme nor what you deny For where afore you said in plaine words the breaking of the bread CAN NOT PROPERLY BELONG BVT TO THE SOVLE of Christ Now you graunt it properly belongeth neither to body nor to soule onely from powder and peeces you take a iust and full proportion in the soule to the proper sense of those words You haue me in iealousie that I thinke you to be a senslesse foole indeed I thinke you to be more conceited then learned and a great deale more shifting then sound though in this booke you haue sought the helpe of all your friends to maintaine the most of your matters with as it were but if you reiect the Apostles words as wanting both proprietie and proportion except your hell paines be admitted and make out iust and full proportions from powder and peeces vnto the soule of Christ I doubt your Reader will thinke these be senslesse and foolish Toyes If I would play with proportions as you doe I neede not depart from the words of the holy Ghost to find a fairer resemblance to the proper sense of those words in the body of Christ crucified then you make any All my bones are sundered saith Dauid in the person of Christ and thou hast brought me into the dust of death Of which and all that went before Eusebius saith what else doe all these signifie but the condition of Christs dead body Wherefore he presently addeth and into the dust of death thou hast brought me Here in expresse words is the dust of death to which Christs body was brought and besides all his bones were sundered Now to be sundered is euidently to be diuided and that must be with parts or peeces the naturall coherence wherewith the bones were formerly ioyned being losed and dissolued though one part be not seuered from the other Whether therefore the word broken be properly or figuratiuely taken I see no cause why the Apostles words may not in either sense be fully true For if the Ioynts vaines sinewes flesh and skinne of Christs body from head to foote were properly straeined rent and torne besides the seuering of his soule from his body then was his body truely broken If by breaking we figuratiuely meane as others doe the affliction and anguish of Christs body then as no part was free from it so no increase of bodily paine in this life could be added to his sufferings and so in either respect your hell paines haue their pasport till you find some fitter place and better proofe for them then either KLO'MENON or MEDVCCA The next point you vndertake is whether the blood of Christ be the full Redemption as well of our bodies as of our Soules in this life Wherein because the word Redemption is diuersly taken in the Scriptures as for deliuerance sometimes from sinne sometimes from death sometimes from the power and feare of either and all the promises of God we haue now in hope though not some of them indeed till the generall resurrection you shew your selfe cunning in carping at words which you labour to turne and wind euery way But before you come to it you make a short and swift answere to all the places of Scripture which I produce touching the force and effects of Christs blood least you should haue any neede to trouble your selfe hereafter about any of them Where as your manner is throughout your booke you first chaunge the question with adding your witlesse and senslesse termes of meere single and simple to my words and then without any more adoe Your aduised and resolute answere to all is this there is not one text any where that hath any meaning of my strange conceite It were reason a man would thinke you tooke the paines to impugne my words and not to presume you know my meaning against my words and so to frame it after your fashion with your new found phrases which I abhor as much as I doe your new found faith You will prooue the blood of our Sauiour is the true price of our Redemption and that as well of our soules as of our bodies Who denieth this as your words runne It is happie yet that my words runne well whatsoeuer my conceite be Now if I meane no more then I speake and the sacred Scriptures fully concurre with that which I speake then haue I both the word of God to warrant that I teach and besides your owne confession that as I speake it it is truth But you know I meane that no more but the shedding of Christs blood ONLY AND MEERELY is the iust and full satisfaction of all our sinnes What my meaning is you cannot be ignorant I haue often declared it not here only but in my Sermons and conclusion also as I haue formerly shewed and you haue plainely confessed I will once more repeate your
deuice to the doctrine of our saluation than what is euidently reuealed and directly witnessed in the Scriptures Whether it be of Christ sayth Austen or of any other thing what soeuer touching the faith I say not if we who are no way comparable to him that so spake but that which followeth if an Angell from heauen teach you BESIDES that which you haue receiued in the Scriptures of the Law and the Gospell holde him accursed It is a manifest fall from the faith sayth Basil either to abrogate any thing that is written or to bring in any thing that is not written For when once we beleeue the Gospel sayth Tertullian this we first beleeue that there is nothing besides which we ought to beleeue So that the meere bloud and single bodie of Christ are but sleights of yours with vnknowen phrases to draw your Reader from asking or eying your proofes for the death of Christes soule and the paines of the damned to be suffered by him before wee could be redeemed The Scriptures are maine and manifest for that which I beleeue and teach and which the whole Church of Christ before mee taught and beleeued these fifteene hundred yeeres afore your conceit of hell paines in the soule of Christ was either hatcht or heard of The sufferings of the soule and the wrath of God which things you now catch holde on to make some introduction to your secret and priuate fansies are too generall to inferre either the death of the soule or the paines of the damned except to the rest of your absurdities you will adde these that the soule neuer suffereth but it dieth the death of spirits and that Gods anger in this life hath none other effects but damnation Here you vrge a reason against vs if then our soules be not redeemed by the blood of Christ our bodies haue no benefite of Redemption from death You hunt so headily after aduantages of words by some ambiguitie in them that you neither remember what the Scriptures teach nor what your selfe defend nor when I vse a word in the same sense that the Apostle doth It is not my deuise but the Apostles doing to take REDEMPTION of the body for the incorruption of the same We sigh in our selues saith Paul wayting for the Redemption of our body And againe you are sealed by the holy spirit of God vnto the day of Redemption When that day shall be our Sauiour telleth vs in these words When the powers of heauen shall be shaken and you see the sonne of man come in a cloud with power and great glory then lift vp your heads for your Redemption draweth neere In all which places Redemption is taken for none of those mercies or graces which are bestowed on Gods children in this life but for that glorie and immortalitie which shall be reueiled on them when Christ shall come to iudge the world and namely the Redemption of the body for that incorruption wherewith our vile bodies shall bee changed and made like to his glorious body Take then the Redemption of the body for the incorruption of the same as the Apostle plainely doth and I did and see what absurditie or obscuritie there is in my reason which you so much wrangle with and wonder at as though it passed all vnderstanding The Redemption which we haue in this life by the bloud of Christ must needes bee either of body or of soule we haue no more parts to be redeemed by Christ. But the Redemption of our bodies we haue not in this world we must waite for it till this corruptible put on incorruption The Redemption therefore which we haue in this life or shal haue before the last day is the Redemption of our soules And so the words of Peter You were Redeemed with the precious bloud of Christ and of the Saints in heauen saying to the Lambe Thou hast redeemed vs to God by thy bloud pertaine expresly to the Redemption of their soules because their bodies then did and yet do lie in corruption What so strange monsters or marueiles doeth your Logicall head finde in this reason that you should make such wonderizations at it and protestations against it Is it not open and easie to all that be meanely witted or soberly minded But you haue three things to note in my words which you alleage 1. The Proposition is vaine and Illogicall hauing no consequence in it at all It is a speciall point of Art memoratiue in you to note three things and vtterly to forget two of them For in this whole Section you doe not so much as mention any second or third thing to bee noted in those words which you cite The first and al which you note is that my proposition is vaine Illogicall and vncoherent Your idle and vntheologicall head hath ouer busied it selfe with many mad multiplications and what ifs vpon this proposition and yet you come nothing neere the sense or coherence of it The Proposition hath two parts whereof the second is either an illation out of the Apostles words vpon the first being a supposition of yours if we limit it to the time of this life or if wee speake without restraint of time as you doe it is a necessarie consequent to the former being the condition and cause of the latter That our soules are not redeemed by the bloud of Christ but by his soule is a resolution of yours wherewith you giue a fresh on-set in the next Section as the Reader shall there perceiue though here in shew you somwhat relent after your inconstant maner That being a position of yours I added by the Apostles warrant that our bodies haue not their Redemption in this life but must stay for it till the day of Redemption or generall resurrection And so the reason standeth If our soules be not here redeemed by the bloud of Christ which is your Assertion our bodies by the Apostles doctrine haue no Redemption in this life But this That wee should presently haue no Redemption in body or soule by the bloud of Christ is quite m contrarie to the words of Peter who sayth Yee are redeemed by the bloud of Christ not yee shall be and of the soules in heauen that say to Christ thou hast redeemed vs by thy bloud when their bodies were rotten in the earth Since therefore either body or soule must haue Redemption in this life and the body as Paul assureth vs hath not Redemption in this life Ergo the Redemption which we haue in this life by the bloud of Christ must bee referred to our soules and our bodies must expect the generall day of Redemption in the end of the world before they shall haue it If the sober and wise Reader vnderstand not this reason or can dislike the sequence of it I am content he shall condemne it as darke and obscure but if it be open to all mens eyes saue yours then is your
sheepeheard and lay downe my soule for my sheepe that is by my death men are deliuered from eternall death I aske now the Christian Reader whether he thinke it a shift of mine when Christ gaue his soule for vs or our soules for me to say that he gaue it by the losse of his life in such sort as the Euangelists describe or whether the Scriptures and Fathers together with the later writers doe not consent with me in the same exposition of Christs words This conclusion then that Christ gaue his soule for our soules doth not inferre that he had distinct times places or manners of suffering or dying for our soules and then for our bodies that is erroneous iniurious to the death of Christ and openly disclaimed euen by the Discourser himselfe but that in suffering death on the crosse by which his soule was separated from his body after long and sharpe torments first endured in his body his soule was the chiefe or rather the onely patient that discerned and sustained the bitternesse of the paines and perceiued the cause for which and the counsell of God from whence all that affliction was ordained and decreed For as we sinned in body and soule but chiefly in soule so Christs death for our Redemption must grieue both body and soule but chiefly the soule which was ioyned with the body in suffering death that both soule and body might be redeemed and the paine thereof proportioned to the soule as the pleasure of sinne chiefly delighted the soule More then this no Father euer ment and this is no way denied by me You would faine wring in a conceite of your owne into their words which is mainly directly against their words and resolutions in all other places and therefore which of vs two deserueth best the name of a shifter let the Reader iudge The Fathers striue to expresse an exact proportion so farre as was possible betweene Christ and vs first in the parts that suffered in Christ and are saued in vs Next in that which Christ suffered for vs and which we are saued from thereby They iustly conclude that no parts of our nature are saued in vs but such as Christ assumed into the vnitie of his person and therefore in Christs sufferings there must be body and soule before they could be humane sufferings or auailable for vs. As by man came death so by man came the resurrection of the dead But that they doe or would affirme that we are saued from no more then Christ suffered for vs or that we are wholy freed from all those kinds of paines which he suffered for our sakes this is a false and fantasticall proportion of your owne inuenting it is no part of their meaning Sundry things should we haue suffered for sinne as the death of the soule and the death of the damned besides reiection from all grace and blisse confusion malediction and many other terrors and torments of conscience which by no meanes these Fathers apply to Christ but in euident and vehement words auouch the contrarie Christ likewise suffered wrong reproch shame paine and death of the body from which we are not freed yea rather we must haue fellowship with his afflictions and be conformed vnto his death before we shall be partakers of the comforts that are in him or of his resurrection So that your running to proportions of your owne compounding when you should bring sound probations for that you defend is mad Musicke though best becomming the discords of your doctrine As we are saued not in our bodies onely nor onely in the externall sensitiue part of our soules wherein standeth that suffering with and by our bodies but we are saued redeemed and sanctified in our whole spirit and vnderstanding also euen so by their verdict Christ suffered for vs not the bodily and outward sufferings by Sympathie onely but he suffered for vs euen in his minde also Now this is directly against your present assertion A man can not readily tell whether your assertion in this place be more false absurd or idle The Scripture teacheth vs that a man hath but two substances of which he consisteth a mortall and visible which is his bodie an immortall and inuisible which is his soule Our Sauiour who best knew what man had saith as much Feare not them which kill the bodie but can not kill the soule feare him rather that can destroy soule and bodie in hell The names of these parts are sometimes varied and sometimes diuided into sundrie powers and faculties but the partes themselues cannot be increased Salomon speaking of mans death sayth Dust goeth to the earth as it was meaning the bodie and the Spirit returneth to God that gaue it meaning the Soule Of a Virgin Paul sayth she careth for the things of the Lord that she may be holy both in bodie and spirit that is in bodie and soule And writing to the Thessalonians the same Apostle saith that their whole Spirit and Soule and Bodie may be kept blamelesse vnto the comming of the Lord Iesus Christ. Of this place diuerse haue diuersly thought Chrysostome Theodoret Ambrose Ierome Oecumenius and Theophylact commenting on these words take the spirit for the grace of Gods spirit wherewith our mindes are lightned and renewed and indeede sometimes Paul vseth the word spirit for the gifts of the spirit as where he saith Quench not the spirit and calleth them our spirits as the Spirits of the Prophets are subiect to the Prophets Howbeit Athanasius Tertullian Epiphanius Gregorie Nyssene Augustine Bede and others take here the spirit for the vnderstanding and minde of man as also Caluine Zanchius and Beza doe who referre the soule here spoken of to the will and affections of man not that any of them maketh two soules in man which were most absurd but that by those names they note two different faculties or functions in one and the same substance of mans soule Come now to your words and see how handsomely you proportion them either to your Authors or to the trueth or to your purpose Not one of the Fathers which you cite nameth the minde of Christ but onely his soule and his bodie saue Nazianzene who speaketh not of Christs suffering in the minde but of his sanctifying the same by assuming it in his incarnation Let himselfe explane his owne wordes in the very same place Our mind some say is condemned And what our flesh is not that also condemned then either cast away mans flesh from Christ for sinne or admit mans mind that it may be saued For if Christ take the worse part of man to sanctific it by his incarnation shall he not take the better part that it may be sanctified 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by his assuming of mans nature I speake not this as if it might not safely be granted that Christs soule suffered as well by
his minde as by his sense and you nothing the neerer to your purpose of his suffering hell paines in mind from the immediate hand of God but to let the Reader see how you catch at Fathers for an aduantage without any shew of their words and when they make against you you reiect with disdaine the whole aray of them Your diuiding of man into his parts and your resolutions thereupon are more absurd and haue neither trueth learning nor common vnderstanding in them Of man to shew your exactnesse you make these partes â—…e bodie the externall sensitiue part of the soule the whole spirit and vnderstanding also You name here the bodie the soule and the spirit but so vntowardly that neither your selfe nor any man els can tell how to make them agree Hath the soule if you will needes distinguish it from the spirit no moe parts or powers to suffer or to be saued but the externall sensitiue part will you take the soule to be all one with the spirit and so make the whole spirit as much as the whole soule But the Apostle reckoneth the whole spirit the soule and the bodie whose words you would seeme to follow and so seuereth the soule from the spirit But not by the externall sensitiue part as you doe Againe why adde you the vnderstanding also after the whole spirit As if it were no part thereof but a different thing from the spirit But this is your skill when you come to any matter of importance to wrap it in ambiguous and confused termes that it shall be more masterie to vnderstand you then to refute you And how commeth it about by your Philosophie that the sufferings of the soule by and from the body pierce no farder then into the externall senses of the soule Doe the sufferings of the body offend and afflict the powers onely or the substance also of the soule Is not the very substance of the Soule passible and punishable as well by the powers of sense as by the affections and vnderstanding The actions passions powers and faculties of the soule are they not all grounded on and seated in the substance of the soule so that from thence all the actions thereof must proceed therein all the passions thereof must be receiued and thereon all the faculties thereof depend Are you so learned in logick that you will bring vs passions without a subiect or powers and faculties without a substance Whether it be therefore by the vnderstanding will affections or sense that the soule suffereth the substance thereof suffereth by those powers and meanes and not any part thereof for so much as the substance of the soule is not diuisible into parts as being a spirit though the powers and faculties thereof may be distinguished and called parts Then is it a strange position of yours that the sensitiue part suffereth or that the vnderstanding suffereth and not the soule by either of them when indeed the substance of the soule suffereth by or from her power or faculties of sense vnderstanding and will which are the meanes that God hath made to impresse paine on the soule For the vnderstanding which you call the mind is no more a seuerall substance in the soule then the power of sense is and the soule not onely discerneth particular things by her facultie of sense as she doth consequent and generall things by hir facultie of reason but by the eares and eyes she heareth the word and beholdeth the works of God whence commeth information of faith and truth Of the vnderstanding Epiphanius saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. I thinke not our mind to be any substance of it selfe neither hath any of the children of the Church so thought but to be an effectuall power or operation giuen of God and abiding in vs. Of the sense Tertullian saith Anima perinde per corpus corporalia sentit quemadmodum per animam incorporalia intelligit The soule perceiueth corporall things by the sense euen as she doth vnderstand incorporall things by the mind And shewing how both those powers depend on the soule he addeth Sit nunc potior sensu intellectus dummodo ipse propria vis animae quod sensus Let the vnderstanding excell the sense so that it be a proper facultie of the Soule as the sense is Of the passions of Christs Soule Fulgentius writeth Nunc ostendendum nobis est passionem tristitiae maeroris taedij timoris ad animae substantiam propriè pertinere Now must we shew that the passion of sorrow heauinesse and loathing of hart and feare which our Sauiour felt pertaine properly to the substance of the soule And at the length concluding that the flesh of it selfe can neither haue life nor sense nor sorrow nor desire nor feare nor mourning he saith Haec ergo cuncta in anima quam susceperat pertulit Christus vt veram totamque in se cum suis infirmitatibus hominis demonstraret accepti substantiam All these passions Christ endured in his soule which he tooke that he might shew in himselfe THE TRVE AND VVHOLE SVBSTANCE of a man with his infirmities The purpose for which you pretend so many Fathers