Selected quad for the lemma: power_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
power_n	bishop_n	timothy_n	titus_n	3,183	5	11.2188	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85314	Separation examined: or, a treatise vvherein the grounds for separation from the ministry and churches of England are weighed, and found too light. The practise proved to be not onely unwarrantable, but likewise so hurtful to the churches, that church-reformation cannot with any comfort go forward, so long as such separation is tolerated. Also an humble request presented to the congregational divines, that since the differences between them and the classical-divines are very small they would please to strike in with the classical-divines in carrying on the worke of reformation, before the inundation of these corrupt opinions, have destroyed both ordinances and religion. / By Gi. Firmin minister to the church in Shalford in essex.	Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697.	1652 (1652)	Wing F964; Thomason E656_12; ESTC R206624	107,263	123

proceed_v any_o further_a to_o cast_v they_o out_o i_o have_v hear_v the_o new_a england_n minister_n sharp_o censure_v because_o they_o have_v excommunicate_v for_o some_o error_n i.e._n deny_v of_o some_o ordinance_n which_o be_v suppose_v to_o fall_v within_o the_o compass_n of_o nonfundamentals_a this_o maxim_n be_v cry_v up_o among_o the_o separatist_n for_o the_o thesis_n itself_o consider_v into_o what_o a_o narrow_a compass_n fundamental_o be_v pen_v up_o i_o think_v it_o to_o be_v apocryphal_a divinity_n and_o just_o it_o be_v with_o god_n to_o let_v in_o error_n in_o fundamental_o when_o such_o church_n and_o truthdestructive_a principle_n be_v drink_v in_o by_o godly_a christian_n yet_o let_v we_o bring_v this_o rule_n and_o lay_v it_o to_o the_o case_n in_o hand_n i_o hope_v they_o do_v not_o make_v rule_n for_o themselves_o if_o it_o be_v a_o true_a christian_a rule_n it_o be_v for_o all_o christian_n here_o than_o we_o have_v man_n qualify_v by_o god_n with_o 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not_o cast_v they_o out_o but_o forsooth_o a_o little_a error_n in_o comparison_n of_o they_o and_o that_o acknowledge_v in_o the_o minister_n that_o be_v ground_n sufficient_a to_o cast_v off_o they_o and_o call_v they_o antichristian_o etc._n etc._n yet_o there_o be_v no_o conscientious_a man_n but_o these_o the_o separatist_n gospel_n will_v afford_v rule_n for_o they_o but_o not_o for_o other_o christian_n as_o you_o trouble_v the_o minister_n here_o so_o i_o doubt_v they_o will_v trouble_v you_o in_o the_o ordination_n of_o your_o minister_n that_o be_v to_o make_v it_o clear_a to_o they_o that_o private_a man_n have_v power_n to_o ordain_v i_o have_v see_v it_o myself_o when_o two_o private_a man_n have_v impose_v their_o hand_n upon_o he_o who_o be_v to_o be_v their_o pastor_n another_z i_o know_v who_o a_o carpenter_n and_o a_o tailor_n ordain_v with_o imposition_n of_o hand_n i_o doubt_v the_o minister_n will_v put_v you_o hard_o to_o it_o to_o prove_v that_o this_o be_v 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the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n before_o the_o captivity_n say_v how_o many_o year_n boldness_n alsle_n chron._n p._n 2153._o goodw._n mo._n ar._n l._n 1._o c._n 10._o chemnitius_n in_o 10._o joh._n take_v thief_n there_o to_o be_v the_o pharisee_n for_o their_o order_n be_v not_o institute_v by_o god_n nor_o bring_v in_o by_o the_o prophet_n but_o only_o a_o humane_a invention_n and_o through_o their_o own_o boldness_n afterward_o when_o christ_n come_v be_v they_o clear_a what_o think_v you_o then_o of_o corrupt_a caiphas_n the_o high_a priest_n his_o corrupt_a enter_v into_o and_o his_o continuance_n in_o the_o place_n for_o one_o year_n so_o the_o pharisee_n a_o generation_n that_o god_n never_o institute_v their_o school_n begin_v some_o say_v two_o hundred_o and_o forty_o year_n some_o say_v more_o before_o christ_n and_o for_o their_o superstitious_a invention_n they_o be_v not_o barren_a in_o they_o but_o do_v christ_n so_o soon_o as_o he_o come_v to_o preach_v call_v away_o the_o people_n and_o bid_v they_o separate_v here_o be_v corrupt_a officer_n etc._n etc._n no_o we_o find_v no_o such_o word_n nay_o he_o bid_v then_o hear_v matth._n 23._o after_o christ_n i_o pray_v tell_v i_o how_o long_o do_v the_o church_n continue_v without_o superstitious_a mixture_n i_o doubt_v you_o will_v find_v the_o church_n have_v not_o be_v long_o free_a but_o we_o do_v not_o find_v separation_n present_o and_o null_v of_o minister_n as_o now_o man_n shall_v do_v well_o to_o give_v we_o a_o precept_n or_o example_n out_o of_o the_o word_n where_o ordinance_n have_v be_v dispense_v true_a for_o the_o substance_n though_o some_o humane_a mixture_n have_v be_v join_v to_o they_o that_o therefore_o they_o be_v iterate_v if_o they_o can_v give_v we_o a_o direct_a precept_n or_o example_n show_v we_o it_o by_o a_o necessary_a consequence_n from_o scripture_n i_o wonder_v man_n shall_v be_v so_o forward_o to_o iterate_v baptism_n and_o ordination_n as_o these_o separatist_n call_v for_o without_o scripturall_a ground_n 9_o there_o be_v hundred_o of_o minister_n in_o england_n who_o be_v not_o ordain_v by_o bishop_n but_o you_o separate_v from_o those_o also_o they_o have_v the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n first_o then_o with_o fast_v and_o prayer_n solemnly_z set_z apart_z to_o the_o work_n by_o divers_a godly_a and_o learned_a divine_n who_o be_v against_o bishop_n yet_o these_o be_v also_o scorn_v by_o yourselves_o as_o much_o as_o the_o other_o but_o forsooth_o because_o they_o be_v ordain_v by_o bishop_n and_o have_v not_o renounce_v their_o ordination_n and_o take_v their_o ordination_n from_o you_o therefore_o that_o infection_n spread_v even_o to_o all_o generation_n out_o of_o what_o i_o have_v say_v i_o may_v pick_v up_o some_o answer_n to_o this_o but_o for_o trouble_v the_o reader_n and_o the_o truth_n be_v they_o be_v in_o some_o sense_n unreasonable_a man_n i_o deal_v with_o but_o this_o let_v i_o say_v it_o be_v strange_a that_o when_o a_o ordinance_n be_v purge_v in_o itself_o and_o those_o who_o administer_v it_o renounce_v what_o defect_n have_v cleaved_a to_o their_o own_o ordination_n only_o for_o the_o substance_n own_v it_o as_o another_o ordinance_n may_v be_v corrupt_v or_o rather_o have_v corruption_n annex_v to_o it_o but_o not_o null_v by_o those_o accidental_a corruption_n that_o this_o infection_n shall_v adhere_v so_o strong_o that_o it_o can_v be_v mend_v but_o by_o null_v of_o it_o friend_n this_o cavil_v will_v not_o do_v in_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n beside_o i_o pray_v give_v i_o a_o instance_n where_o it_o be_v ever_o practise_v that_o person_n that_o be_v not_o baptize_v do_v ordain_v a_o minister_n if_o you_o ask_v i_o what_o need_v that_o question_n for_o we_o be_v baptize_v therefore_o it_o do_v not_o concern_v we_o by_o who_o i_o pray_v if_o you_o say_v by_o the_o minister_n

question_v till_o our_o separatist_n rise_v up_o who_o be_v not_o comparable_a to_o they_o in_o part_n or_o holiness_n 2_o i_o pray_v what_o do_v you_o make_v of_o those_o minister_n who_o be_v ordain_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n 33_o cyp._n epis_n 33_o they_o be_v ordain_v in_o cyprian_n time_n by_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n and_o by_o hieroms_n time_n the_o bishop_n have_v ingross_v that_o power_n into_o their_o own_o hand_n as_o appear_v by_o that_o speech_n of_o he_o except_v ordination_n evagr._fw-la epist_n ad_fw-la evagr._fw-la what_o do_v a_o bishop_n that_o a_o presbyter_n do_v not_o so_o that_o by_o this_o time_n it_o shall_v seem_v that_o the_o presbyter_n be_v turn_v out_o and_o the_o bishop_n only_o ordain_v it_o be_v possible_a this_o may_v be_v but_o in_o some_o church_n for_o the_o four_o council_n of_o carthage_n order_v that_o no_o bishop_n shall_v ordain_v without_o the_o council_n of_o his_o clergy_n can._n 22._o can._n 3._o now_o what_o be_v these_o no_o minister_n anti-christ_n be_v not_o yet_o get_v into_o his_o seat_n for_o the_o year_n of_o his_o reign_n have_v be_v expire_v before_o this_o time_n it_o be_v strange_a that_o those_o shall_v be_v no_o true_a minister_n who_o live_v so_o near_o the_o apostle_n time_n and_o under_o persecution_n also_o as_o in_o cyprian_n time_n neither_o be_v cyprian_n sure_o the_o first_o bishop_n that_o do_v ordain_v for_o there_o be_v bishop_n before_o he_o yea_o beside_o this_o ordination_n by_o bishop_n we_o find_v the_o papist_n contend_v strong_o for_o strange_a rite_n which_o they_o use_v in_o ordination_n and_o they_o say_v they_o be_v also_o use_v in_o those_o primitive_a time_n for_o the_o anoint_v of_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o presbyter_n that_o be_v ordain_v this_o they_o will_v prove_v from_o cyprian_a or_o at_o least_o the_o author_n of_o the_o card._n work_n of_o ch._n who_o show_v l_n seem_v to_o be_v as_o old_a as_o cyprian_a also_o from_o eusebius_n hist_o eccles_n l._n 10._o c._n 4._o which_o place_n will_v seem_v to_o favour_v it_o and_o other_o there_o be_v who_o they_o quote_v see_v greg._n de_fw-fr val._n to_o 4._o d._n 9_o q._n 5._o also_o for_o the_o shave_n of_o the_o head_n of_o their_o minister_n this_o we_o find_v indeed_o in_o august_n time_n ep._n 26._o &_o ep._n 147._o and_o this_o calvin_n himself_o do_v not_o deny_v to_o have_v be_v use_v then_o and_o give_v the_o reason_n why_o it_o be_v use_v which_o greg._n de_fw-fr val._n scorn_v and_o give_v other_o reason_n to._n 4._o d._n 9_o q._n 5._o p._n 3._o if_o the_o decret_a epistle_n of_o anicetus_n be_v of_o any_o authority_n we_o shall_v find_v it_o in_o his_o day_n long_o before_o augustin_n and_o i_o wonder_v that_o greg._n val._n do_v not_o quote_v he_o i_o be_o apt_a to_o think_v be_v they_o be_v so_o prone_a to_o ceremony_n in_o other_o ordinance_n that_o something_o be_v add_v to_o this_o also_o 27._o just_a l._n 4._o c._n 19_o sect_n 27._o and_o i_o marvel_v that_o in_o the_o four_o council_n of_o carthage_n where_o they_o set_v down_o their_o rite_n in_o ordination_n of_o other_o officer_n and_o some_o very_a ridiculous_a that_o the_o ordination_n of_o presbyter_n shall_v be_v the_o most_o pure_a but_o still_o with_o bishop_n as_o well_o as_o presbyter_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n now_o in_o hand_n 3_o a_o bishop_n if_o you_o consider_v he_o mere_o as_o a_o bishop_n be_v but_o a_o minister_n and_o set_v apart_o to_o do_v the_o work_n of_o a_o minister_n the_o same_o which_o all_o other_o minister_n may_v do_v bishop_n do_v pray_v prithee_o baptise_v administer_v the_o lord_n supper_n ordain_v suspend_v excommunicate_a and_o these_o thing_n other_o minister_n do_v and_o may_v do_v that_o he_o do_v lift_v up_o himself_o above_o other_o minister_n that_o be_v his_o error_n that_o he_o will_v take_v upon_o he_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o ordination_n and_o excommunication_n this_o be_v his_o error_n but_o as_o the_o addition_n of_o a_o human_a invention_n do_v not_o null_a the_o ordinance_n as_o suppose_v only_o grow_v person_n have_v be_v baptize_v and_o that_o by_o dip_v and_o after_o dip_v they_o have_v be_v sign_v with_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n will_v this_o have_v null_v the_o ordinance_n in_o the_o anabaptist_n esteem_n no_o more_o this_o usurpation_n of_o the_o power_n of_o administer_a these_o ordinance_n do_v null_a a_o bishop_n so_o as_o he_o be_v no_o minister_n the_o ordinance_n be_v and_o be_v christ_n institution_n indeed_o you_o may_v call_v he_o a_o overgrown_a presbyter_n but_o a_o presbyter_n 10._o 3_o ep._n joh_n ver_fw-la 10._o diotrophe_n love_v of_o pre-eminence_n do_v just_o deserve_v reproof_n and_o john_n do_v no_o doubt_n deal_v with_o he_o but_o yet_o for_o present_a do_v not_o deny_v he_o to_o be_v a_o minister_n though_o a_o corrupt_a one_o for_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o ordination_n they_o tell_v we_o it_o be_v the_o order_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o of_o the_o council_n of_o carthage_n that_o when_o a_o presbyter_n be_v ordain_v all_o the_o presbyter_n that_o be_v present_a shall_v lay_v hand_n as_o for_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o excommunication_n though_o it_o be_v a_o error_n gross_a enough_o yet_o by_o the_o 17._o canon_n council_n sardic_n nice_a ofius_n who_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o that_o ganon_z be_v make_v be_v also_o at_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a it_o shall_v seem_v the_o bishop_n by_o that_o time_n have_v get_v that_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v alone_o which_o canon_n provide_v a_o remedy_n for_o a_o person_n wrongsul_o excommunicate_v by_o his_o bishop_n to_o get_v relief_n by_o appeal_v now_o if_o that_o corruption_n have_v get_v in_o so_o early_o long_o before_o anti-christ_n have_v get_v to_o his_o seat_n no_o wonder_n though_o it_o be_v find_v among_o our_o bishop_n yet_o i_o hope_v they_o be_v true_a minister_n who_o they_o ordain_v as_o a_o bishop_n be_v a_o lord_n bishop_n his_o lordship_n be_v but_o a_o mere_a civil_a addition_n annex_v to_o the_o 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invalidate_v here_o below_o then_o by_o doctrinal_a censure_n and_o repentance_n and_o not_o by_o iteration_n repentance_n through_o christ_n blood_n do_v take_v away_o corruption_n out_o of_o god_n fight_n and_o will_v it_o not_o when_o they_o be_v so_o ingenuous_a out_o of_o your_o sight_n 6_o there_o be_v a_o maxim_n take_v up_o among_o the_o independent_o according_o many_o may_v true_o bear_v the_o name_n yea_o they_o own_v it_o and_o practice_v according_o yea_o and_o other_o and_o it_o go_v for_o as_o good_a divinity_n as_o any_o the_o gospel_n have_v viz._n that_o error_n in_o nonfundamentals_a must_v be_v bear_v withal_o in_o church_n we_o must_v labour_v indeed_o to_o convince_v people_n of_o such_o but_o if_o they_o will_v not_o be_v so_o convince_v we_o must_v not_o

than_o i_o desire_v no_o more_o if_o they_o be_v so_o far_o minister_n as_o to_o administer_v baptism_n to_o you_o than_o they_o may_v well_o administer_v ordination_n to_o we_o renounce_v therefore_o the_o baptism_n you_o have_v by_o they_o so_o i_o be_o sure_a you_o can_v ordain_v and_o when_o you_o be_v regular_o re-baptised_n and_o can_v warrant_v your_o act_n and_o prove_v that_o you_o have_v the_o power_n to_o ordain_v than_o we_o will_v listen_v to_o you_o for_o my_o own_o ordination_n it_o be_v in_o the_o face_n of_o my_o people_n the_o day_n be_v spend_v in_o fast_v and_o prayer_n those_o who_o carry_v on_o the_o work_n be_v mr._n dan._n rogers_n mr._n martial_n mr._n ranew_o with_o other_o godly_a minister_n who_o join_v with_o they_o in_o the_o impose_v of_o hand_n the_o minister_n live_v about_o i_o i_o never_o see_v that_o ordinance_n carry_v on_o with_o more_o solemnity_n in_o my_o life_n the_o people_n show_v their_o election_n by_o suffrage_n hold_v up_o their_o hand_n 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will_v consent_v to_o every_o godly_a minister_n but_o consent_v there_o be_v hence_o these_o two_o concur_v to_o the_o call_v which_o be_v the_o form_n of_o a_o minister_n many_o presbyterial_a minister_n be_v true_a minister_n i_o dare_v say_v more_o but_o i_o be_o sure_a now_o i_o save_v myself_o but_o i_o have_v not_o do_v with_o ordination_n yet_o i_o shall_v meet_v with_o it_o once_o again_o afterward_o let_v we_o now_o come_v and_o try_v the_o second_o ground_n for_o separation_n scil_n the_o worship_n of_o god_n the_o fault_n here_o must_v be_v reduce_v to_o one_o of_o these_o three_o head_n either_o 1_o because_o they_o can_v enjoy_v all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n in_o these_o church_n or_o 2_o because_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n be_v mix_v with_o humane_a invention_n that_o they_o can_v partake_v of_o they_o without_o sin_n or_o 3_o because_o here_o be_v other_o ordinance_n set_v up_o in_o the_o church_n then_o ever_o christ_n do_v institute_v i_o can_v conceive_v any_o more_o for_o the_o first_o suppose_v it_o be_v so_o that_o there_o be_v a_o defect_n of_o some_o ordinance_n be_v that_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o separation_n mr._n hooker_n say_v no._n if_o a_o father_n of_o a_o family_n want_v a_o rod_n in_o his_o house_n discip_n the_o preface_n to_o survey_v of_o church_n discip_n be_v it_o ergo_fw-la no_o family_n there_o may_v be_v some_o disorder_n in_o the_o house_n for_o want_v of_o good_a government_n yet_o a_o family_n divers_a divine_n of_o great_a note_n conceive_v by_o that_o text_n nehem._n 8.17_o 18._o that_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n do_v omit_v the_o celebration_n of_o the_o feast_n of_o tabernacle_n almost_o the_o space_n of_o a_o thousand_o year_n the_o ark_n be_v absent_a from_o the_o tabernacle_n from_o the_o time_n of_o eli_n to_o the_o time_n of_o david_n 1_o sam._n 4.11_o compare_v with_o 2_o sam._n 6_o 17._o and_o it_o be_v a_o great_a fault_n the_o scribe_n reject_v the_o baptism_n of_o john_n but_o where_o 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do_v they_o maintain_v and_o practice_v all_o those_o ordinance_n which_o we_o laugh_v at_o as_o sing_v of_o psalm_n infant-baptism_n observation_n of_o the_o sabbath_n and_o such_o opinion_n as_o those_o learned_a and_o godly_a man_n mr._n ainsworth_n robinson_n johnson_n do_v abhor_v be_v swallow_v down_o among_o we_o so_o that_o these_o man_n can_v ground_v their_o practice_n from_o any_o example_n heretofore_o and_o as_o for_o the_o scripture_n if_o they_o can_v find_v any_o ground_n there_o i_o must_v confess_v i_o be_o altogether_o ignorant_a in_o the_o scripture_n suppose_v there_o shall_v be_v some_o human_a mixture_n though_o for_o my_o part_n i_o know_v of_o none_o be_v all_o the_o ordinance_n so_o pollute_v preach_v and_o prayer_n be_v keep_v pure_a in_o the_o episcopal_a day_n

the_o people_n be_v but_o a_o homogeneal_a body_n to_o reject_v i.e._n excommunicate_v a_o ossicer_n will_v cost_v more_o to_o prove_v have_v reverend_a mr._n hooker_n be_v alive_a and_o see_v what_o work_v church-member_n make_v here_o in_o england_n in_o very_a many_o church_n i_o think_v it_o will_v have_v cause_v he_o to_o bethink_v himself_o again_o of_o the_o people_n power_n something_o we_o hear_v of_o be_v do_v in_o a_o church_n not_o far_o from_o the_o place_n where_o he_o live_v it_o can_v be_v keep_v close_o the_o light_n of_o that_o fire_n shine_v into_o england_n for_o the_o people_n to_o withdraw_v their_o subjection_n from_o such_o a_o officer_n when_o there_o be_v no_o other_o officer_n to_o join_v with_o they_o to_o excommunicate_v he_o this_o be_v not_o deny_v for_o by_o their_o subjection_n to_o he_o they_o make_v he_o their_o officer_n that_o be_v some_o part_n so_o they_o may_v withdraw_v their_o subjection_n again_o but_o for_o excommunication_n mr._n cotton_n say_v it_o be_v one_o of_o the_o high_a act_n of_o rule_n in_o the_o church_n 16_o key_n p._n 16_o and_o therefore_o can_v be_v perform_v but_o by_o some_o ruler_n mr._n burrough_n say_v 51._o iren._n 51._o if_o the_o church_n be_v without_o officer_n they_o can_v do_v that_o which_o belong_v to_o officer_n to_o do_v they_o have_v no_o sacrament_n among_o they_o neither_o can_v they_o have_v any_o spiritual_a jurisdiction_n exercise_v among_o they_o only_o brotherly_a admonition_n and_o withdraw_v from_o such_o as_o walk_v disorderly_a for_o their_o own_o preservation_n so_o then_o here_o be_v a_o way_n for_o the_o people_n to_o preserve_v themselves_o though_o they_o can_v excommunicate_v and_o those_o text_n which_o reverend_a mr._n hooker_n bring_v matth._n 7.15_o and_o phil._n 3.2_o do_v not_o prove_v the_o church_n as_o a_o homogencal_a body_n to_o have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v their_o officer_n though_o they_o may_v prove_v withdraw_v as_o also_o rom._n 16.17_o may_v prove_v it_o for_o the_o reason_n of_o his_o consequence_n that_o staple_n rule_n ejusdem_fw-la est_fw-la instituere_fw-la destituere_fw-la this_o maxim_n be_v turn_v every_o way_n sometime_o to_o prove_v the_o people_n may_v excommunicate_v their_o officer_n because_o they_o do_v instituere_fw-la the_o people_n in_o election_n put_v forth_o no_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n therefore_o they_o may_v put_v forth_o the_o high_a act_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o excommunication_n that_o there_o be_v no_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o election_n doctor_n ames_n acknowledge_v ovas_n rationales_fw-la possunt_fw-la eligere_fw-la sibi_fw-la pastorem_fw-la sicut_fw-la sponsa_fw-la eligit_fw-la sibisponsum_fw-la non_fw-la per_fw-la jurisdictionem_fw-la aut_fw-la gubernationem_fw-la sed_fw-la potius_fw-la per_fw-la subjectionem_fw-la in_o the_o answer_n before_o he_o affirm_v the_o same_o and_o elsewhere_o now_o what_o argue_v be_v this_o 13._o bellar._n enter_fw-mi to_o 2_o l._n 3._o c._n 2._o s._n 19_o ib._n s._n 13._o to_o argue_v from_o subjection_n to_o the_o high_a act_n of_o jurisdiction_n there_o be_v no_o authority_n in_o election_n for_o electio_fw-la non_fw-la cogit_fw-la yet_o there_o be_v more_o power_n see_v in_o civil_a election_n than_o church-election_n as_o i_o shall_v touch_v afterward_o but_o in_o excommunication_n authority_n appear_v that_o also_o be_v deny_v that_o the_o people_n do_v instituere_fw-la in_o constitute_v chruche_n and_o ordinary_o what_o may_v be_v do_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n be_v no_o ordinary_a rule_n here_o the_o maxim_n be_v turn_v to_o prove_v that_o they_o may_v jnstituere_fw-la because_o they_o can_v destituere_fw-la but_o that_o will_v be_v deny_v unless_o it_o be_v in_o the_o sense_n before_o mention_v i._n e._n in_o what_o manner_n and_o how_o far_o they_o do_v instituere_fw-la i.e._n by_o a_o subjection_n to_o be_v their_o officer_n so_o they_o may_v withdraw_v their_o subjection_n from_o he_o and_o not_o own_v he_o to_o be_v their_o officer_n but_o to_o excommunicate_v be_v more_o quest_n but_o suppose_v this_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o fraternity_n can_v excommunicate_v their_o officer_n but_o withdraw_v their_o subjection_n they_o may_v you_o say_v and_o so_o he_o cease_v to_o be_v their_o officer_n but_o what_o be_v he_o now_o a_o officer_n to_o other_o church_n a._n if_o the_o withdraw_a their_o subjection_n and_o reject_v be_v irregular_a then_o though_o they_o make_v he_o not_o their_o officer_n de_fw-fr facto_fw-la which_o he_o be_v still_o the_o jure_fw-la yet_o his_o relation_n to_o the_o church-catholick_n visible_a do_v still_o hold_v and_o another_o church_n give_v he_o a_o call_v he_o have_v then_o power_n actu_fw-la secund●_n to_o administer_v the_o ordinance_n there_o for_o instance_n the_o separatist_n cast_v off_o he_o who_o before_o they_o choose_v for_o their_o officer_n suppose_v now_o unless_o he_o will_v renounce_v his_o ordination_n he_o be_v no_o minister_n do_v he_o therefore_o cease_v to_o be_v a_o minister_n how_o bufie_v some_o congregationall_a church_n be_v in_o withdraw_a from_o their_o officer_n it_o be_v too_o manifest_a and_o many_o go_v to_o the_o anabaptist_n some_o turn_v seeker_n andif_a all_o the_o member_n do_v thus_o do_v they_o now_o cease_v to_o be_v minister_n 2_o but_o if_o the_o withdraw_a be_v regular_a the_o cause_n just_a try_v etc._n etc._n then_o that_o which_o be_v sufficient_a ground_n for_o their_o withdraw_a from_o he_o be_v just_a cause_n why_o he_o shall_v be_v excommunicate_v be_v pertinacious_o scandalous_a or_o heretical_a as_o mr._n hooker_n suppose_v if_o then_o the_o case_n of_o a_o church_n be_v so_o as_o they_o be_v cast_v by_o providence_n into_o some_o remote_a place_n where_o be_v no_o church_n beside_o to_o combine_v with_o then_o as_o their_o election_n of_o he_o etc._n etc._n as_o i_o say_v before_o may_v supply_v the_o want_n of_o ordination_n so_o this_o withdraw_a in_o such_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n may_v be_v analogum_fw-la to_o excommunication_n but_o say_v our_o divine_n if_o that_o church_n be_v in_o combination_n with_o other_o church_n as_o now_o under_o a_o classis_fw-la than_o the_o people_n shall_v not_o need_v to_o stay_v there_o in_o their_o withdraw_a but_o the_o case_n be_v judge_v and_o try_v by_o the_o classis_fw-la they_o as_o they_o ordain_v he_o when_o the_o people_n elect_v he_o the_o people_n consent_v do_v excommunicate_v he_o then_o as_o a_o man_n cast_v out_o of_o one_o church_n be_v cast_v out_o from_o the_o catholic_n church_n visible_a so_o he_o who_o be_v cast_v out_o from_o be_v a_o officer_n to_o this_o church_n be_v cast_v out_o from_o be_v a_o minister_n to_o the_o church-catholicke_a visible_a for_o the_o other_o argument_n 78_o burro_fw-la iren_n p._n 50_o nort._n resp_n ad_fw-la apoll._n p._n 76_o 78_o the_o people_n convey_v of_o power_n to_o a_o officer_n i_o know_v of_o no_o power_n the_o people_n convey_v only_o a_o designation_n of_o such_o a_o person_n to_o officiate_v in_o this_o or_o that_o society_n but_o their_o power_n they_o receive_v from_o christ_n immediate_o as_o our_o congregationall_a man_n affirm_v and_o hence_o they_o act_v in_o his_o name_n not_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n 5_o the_o last_o answer_n i_o will_v give_v to_o this_o proposal_n be_v this_o if_o you_o conceive_v this_o to_o be_v the_o only_a way_n of_o reformation_n than_o you_o must_v give_v the_o minister_n strong_a proof_n that_o you_o may_v ordain_v the_o minister_n will_v as_o much_o question_n your_o power_n to_o ordain_v as_o you_o question_v the_o bishop_n power_n so_o that_o we_o take_v it_o for_o grant_v you_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v this_o because_o you_o be_v so_o punctual_a you_o say_v for_o reform_v by_o the_o word_n but_o of_o this_o practice_n i_o much_o doubt_n 1_o my_o ground_n be_v because_o i_o find_v not_o one_o jota_n of_o any_o such_o thing_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n obj._n though_o you_o do_v not_o 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