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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A62284	The reformation of the Church of England justified according to the canons of the Council of Nice, and other general councils, and the tradition of the Catholick Church being an answer to a paper reprinted at Oxford, called (The schism of the Church of England) demonstrated in four arguments, formerly proposed to Dr. Gunning and Dr. Pearson the late bishops of Ely and Chester, by two Catholick disputants, in a celebrated conference upon that point : in which answer the unworthy and false dealings of the papists are shewed, and the charge of schism returned upon them, and the Church of England proved truly Catholick and apostolick in her doctrine and constitution / by Dr. Saywell.	Saywell, William, 1643-1701.	1688 (1688)	Wing S804; ESTC R34023	26,158	36

Place Hodgkins was only a Suffragan but communicated with these three in the Consecration and therefore became a Schismatick As our Author does only in this Argument vary in Form and Circumstance from his former Arguments so I must apply the same Answer for Substance to his Assertions Day and Veysey were justly set aside in King Edward's Days for not consenting to the Decree of the major part of the Bishops as appears by the Protector 's Letter to Bishop Gardner in Dr. Burnet's Collection and Bishop Scory and Coverdale were by the consent of the Archbishop and Bishops Regularly settled in their Places in peaceable Times wherein no Cruelties were exercised no Man was put to Death for his Religion and only that Discipline was used to turn out those that would not quietly submit to the Determinations of the major part of the Bishops of the Province and as for Bishop Barlow he was Consecrated a Bishop of this Church near ' twenty Years before in King Henry the Eighth's Days and so was Bishop Hodgkins Suffragan at Bedford So that we have the Four Consecrators of Archbishop Parker duly consecrated in quiet Times by the Archbishop and Bishops of the Province and therefore endued with the undoubted Power both of Order and Jurisdiction beyond all Dispute Therefore unless any can shew a better Title not only the Power of Order which they did Confer but of Jurisdiction also must be unquestionable and consequently the whole Succession of English Bishops ever since is exactly Regular and Canonical The only Pretenders to a better Title were those fourteen Popish Bishops set aside by Queen Elizabeth But these four Mens Title is more Firm and Ancient than theirs for the Popish Bishops were either such as were legally Deposed and thrust themselves afterwards in the Places of the Lawful Bishops and then put many of them to Death or all else but Bishop Thirlby were ordained by or communicated with them during their Schism and Usurpation and therefore neither the Ordainers nor Ordained had any Right or Jurisdiction in the Church of England so that Bishop Barlow Bishop Scory Bishop Coverdale being undoubted Regular Bishops of the Church of England at King Edward's Death and all that was done in Queen Mary's Days being acted by Bishops that had no Lawful Jurisdiction the Regular Authority of Ordaining and Conferring Jurisdiction as well as Order was devolved to them and they might take Bishop Hodgkins into their Assistance to add the greater Solemnity to their Ordination so that those Fourteen were so far from being Regular Bishops of the Church of England that they will not be able to clear themselves of Schism Murder and the damnable Heresy of the Deposing Doctrine 'T is very unreasonable therefore that the Bishops of the Church of England should be charged with Schism for declining their Authority so long as they have a Regular Succession from the undoubted Lawful Bishops who were free from any such foul Guilt or Suspicion and the Clergy were so well satisfied with their Authority that of 9400 above 9200 did really submit to it and heartily embrace the Reformation and the Queen Nobility Gentry and the whole Kingdom as I said before did willingly and joyfully adhere to their Communion and for ten or eleven Years lived in Peace and Unity till the Pope by his Bull of Excommunication and Deposition made a Disturbance The fourth Argument WHosoever Subject themselves unto these as their Lawful Pastors who have no Jurisdiction over them are Schismaticks But English Protestants ever since Queen Elizabeth's Time have Subjected themselves to these as their Lawful Pastors who have no Jurisdiction over them Therefore c. are Schismaticks The second Proposition he proves because we had no Regular Succession at home nor derived none from abroad and could have none from Rome Constantinople or any other Church But all this is founded upon a false and groundless Supposition Whereas we had Four True Lawful Regular Bishops with full Power of Order and Jurisdiction from whom we derive our Succession and might have had many more had not they unjustly put them to Death and so needed not any Assistance from Rome or Constantinople or any Place else And as for the Coustitution of our Church it is established by Divine Right committed to us by Succession from Christ and his Apostles and we Act by the Power we received from the Holy Ghost for the Pastoral Charge the Care of Souls the Right and Power of Baptizing and Consecrating the Eucharist the Power of binding and loosing the Power of Ordination c. are all Spiritual Offices received from God. Neither do we derive them from any secular Magistrates but from the Bishops of the Province according to the constant Tradition of the Church which St. Cyprian says did descend down from Divine Tradition and Apostolical Observation and the Council of Nice and other General Councils Approve and Confirm the same And as for many of the Formalities that are used in the first Nomination Election and Confirmation of Bishops they were not observed by Christ and his Apostles nor commanded by the Church and so are accidental Ceremonies Appointed by the State to testify their good liking of the Person that as the Church doth think him well qualify'd and fit to be Preferred to such a Sacred Office so the State is well satisfied that he is a Man that will be Useful and Faithful to the Temporal Government which is agreeable to the Apostles Direction that he should have a good report of them that are without But still that which is Essential and the Authority and Power to execute the Sacred Office of a Bishop or Priest in their respective Charges is derived from the Bishops of the Province and after great Violence and Disorder from as many or the major part of them which survive And this Method is established and allowed by the Catholick Church as long as Provincial and National Churches keep to her Faith and Unity as Ours has done So that every Bishop and Priest orderly constituted in his Place does act by the Power and Appointment of the Catholick Church and they contemn the Catholick Church that desert and disturb them in the Performance of their Office Hence we may understand our Saviour's meaning when he says if he neglect to hear the Church let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican Which in the first Place does require us to hear our own particular Parish Priest and Bishop while they are Constituted and live in the Unity of the Church but principally if does oblige us to hearken to the Catholick Church So that if our own Pastors turn Hereticks or set themselves up by undue means and not according to the Order of the Church they are not to be hearkned to but we must according to our Saviour's Command here the Church and not those Pastors that will not themselves hear and obey the

upon his own Head and evidently prove himself and other English Papists guilty of Schism An ANSWER to a Paper called the Schism of the CHURCH of ENGLAND demonstrated c. IT has been the constant Profession of the Church of England that the Word of God interpreted by Catholick Tradition and a truly Oecumenical Council not a Patriarchal one of a few Italians in the West ought to be hearkened to in Matters that concern the Peace and Unity of the Church And it has been also frequently and learnedly proved by our English Bishops and Divines that the Points in difference between the Church of England and the Church of Rome are so far from being Matters of Faith that they are modern Errors imposed upon the Christian World besides and contrary to the Determinations of General Councils and Catholick Tradition so that our dissent about them from the Roman Church can be by no means accounted Heretical or Schismatical but all these Arguments urged by the Oxford Paper will evidently prove that those Bishops Priests and Lay-men that set up Altar against Altar and hold separate Congregations in Opposition to the Church of England do break the order of Catholick Communion and are guilty of Schism But before I apply my self to return an Answer to the several Arguments it will be requisite to give a short account of the Reformation In the Reign of Hen. 8. there was an Assembly held the Determinations whereof are now extant and to be seen wherein the Archbishops and Bishops Bishop Bonner and Gardner Voysey Heath Tunstall amongst the rest did declare that the Bishop of Rome ought to have no jurisdiction here in England but the Archbishops and Bishops and the National Church had Power to order all Matters within themselves without the concurrence of the Pope so as they did keep to the Faith and Unity of the Catholick Church and for this they alledged the Authority of the Council of Nice and other General Councils And as for the byshoppe of Rome it was many hundreth yeres after Christe before he coude acquire or gette any primacy or gouernance above any other byshoppes out of his province in Italie Sithe the whyche tyme he hath ever vsurped more and more And though some parte of his power was gyven unto hym by the consent of the emperours kynges and princis and by the consent also of the clergie in generalle councelles assembled yet surely he atteyned the moste parte thereof by meruaylous subtiltie and crafte and speciallye by colludynge with greatte kynges and princis sometyme trayninge theym into his deuotion by pretence and colour of holynes and sanctimonie and some tyme constraining them by force and tyranny Wherby the sayde byshoppes of Rome aspired and arose at lengthe vnto suche greatnes in strength and auctoritie that they presumed and toke vpon them to be heddes and to put lawes by their owne auctoritie not onely vnto al other byshoppes within Christendome but also vnto themperours kinges other the princis and lordes of the worlde and that under the pretence of the auctoritie commytted vnto them by the gospell Wherin the saide bishops of Rome do not onely abuse and peruerte the true sense and meaning of Christis worde but they doo also cleane contrarie to the vse and custome of the primitiue churche and also do manyfestly violate as well the holy canons made in the churche immediately after the tyme of the apostels as also the decrees and constitutions made in that behalfe by the holy fathers of the catholike churche assembled in the fyrst general councels and finally they do transgresse theyr owne profession made in their creation For all the byshoppes of Rome always whan they be consecrated and made byshoppes of that see do make a solemn profession and vowe that they shall inuiolably obserue and kepe all the ordinances made in the eight first general councels amonge the whiche it is specially provided and enacted that all causes shall be fynished and determyned within the prouince where the same be begon and that by the byshops of the same prouince and that no byshop shall exercise any iurisdiction out of his owne diocese or province aud dyverse suche other canons were then made and confyrmed by the sayd councels to represse and take away out of the churche al suche primacy and iurisdiction ouer kinges and bishops as the bishops of Rome pretend now to haue ouer the same In the Reign of King Edward 6. The Bishops and Clergy having free Liberty to meet and debate of Matters of Religion without the Pope did find other Abuses and Corruptions besides that of the Pope's Usurpation over the Governours of the Church and did in the Convocation 1552. establish Articles of Religion a publick Liturgy and Book of Ordination the same in substance with those that are now in use amongst us and the Archbishops and a far major part of the Bishops were consenting thereunto not above 5 or 6 were displaced for their disorderly behaviour and dissent from their Brethren and others by the Metropolitan and Bishops of the Province ordained and settled in their Bishopricks according to the usual custom of that time as all Historians and our very Adversaries are forced to confess The Church of England being thus regularly settled was never from that time to this very day regularly changed by any Canonical Authority but has oftentimes been confirmed since both by the Authority of the Convocation and of our Kings and Parliaments and consequently the present Bishops are Lawful Pastors without any guilt of Heresy or Schism and all within their several charges are bound by the Council of Nice and other general Councils to live in their Communion and to submit to them as those that are appointed by the Holy Ghost to direct and govern them in Matters of Religion and all Neighbour Churches are obliged to allow us the Communion of Coordinate Churches and to own us as true Members of Christ's mystical Body The Holy Catholick Church The only Objection of any Moment that is made against this Regular Succession is from the interruption it met with in the short Reign of Queen Mary But when the Matter of Fact is looked into it will appear that nothing which was done in her Reign will be any prejudice to our Succession nor can by any means take off the Regular Settlement of the Church of England by the Convocation in King Edward's Reign but that the Acts thereof are still in force except in some particulars which have been changed by Convocations afterwards For the Synods which were held and the Ordinations that were made in Queen Mary's days were not carried on in a Regular Manner by the Archbishops and Bishops of the Province but by the Authority of the Pope and those Bishops which were justly deposed and set aside and so had no jurisdiction nor any right or title to exercise their Authority in this Realm and therefore could

give no right to the Bishops or Authority to the Decrees they ordained and tho' all the Art and Cruelty imaginable was used to cut off a future Succession by burning imprisoning and banishing the Lawful Bishops yet it pleased God so to order it that the major Part of the Lawful undoubted Bishops who were made in King Edward's Reign and which lived till Queen Elizabeth's days joyned again in continuing the Succession of Bishops and restoring the Reformation settled in Convocation which has been preserved without Interruption to this very Day And those Bishops that were set aside in Queen Elizabeth's Reign were either justly deposed in King Edward's Days and never rightly restored or else were ordained by them who had no Authority to give them Jurisdiction in this Nation and so had no further right than the Civil Magistrate could give which the same Power had again taken away So that the Ordination of Archbishop Parker was so far from being irregular that it was made by those who only had proper Right and Title to ordain For the rest of King Edward's Bishops being Dead the sole Authority did Regularly devolve on the few that were left And the Queen the Nobility and Gentry the Clergy and the Main Body of the Nation were so well satisfied of the unlawful Authority of those Bishops that were set aside and the undoubted Right of those who ordained Archbishop Parker that of about 9400 Clergy above 9200 did with great Joy receive the Bishops and the Reformation and the rest of the Nation even those that were formerly zealous for the Church of Rome did joyn with them in Prayers and Sacraments and there was an Universal Agreement and Concurrence in the Communion of the Church of England for 10 or 11 Years together so that there was no other Penal Law but that of 12 d. a Sunday to stir up lazy People to mind their Duty and we might have continued so till this Day in that happy Concord had not the Pope excommunicated and deposed the Queen and prohibited all her Subjects under Pain of an Anathema to own her Soveraignty and submit to the Bishops of the Church of England Upon which many separated from our Communion and have disturbed our Government ever since So that it is plain the Schism is on the side of the Papists who upon pretence of Papal Authority did withdraw themselves from the Communion of their own Bishops and make a formal division in the Church which was before united in Peace and Truth But suppose there was some circumstantial defect in the Succession of some of our first Bishops as to matter of Form in the beginning of Queen Elizabeth's Reign after so many of their Predecessors had been unjustly turned out and destroyed in Queen Mary's Days their Misfortunes do not at all concern the present Bishops of the Church of England for if the Matter of our Reformation and the Constitution of our Church be Sound and Catholick as it is beyond all possible Contradiction and the Consecration of our Bishops was Valid as to the matter of Order there being no Regular Succession of Bishops continued on by those who were set aside in Queen Elizabeth's Reign because they knew it was in vain when they saw the Kingdom so well settled and the People so unanimously joyning with the Reformed Bishops after all those Popish Bishops were Dead there could be nothing required in Reason to give the Protestants a full Right and Authority but the Reception of the Queen and the whole Kingdom and that they had long before and all the Bishops for many Successions since that Time came into vacant Places and the Bishops that now are were none of them Born and come into none but void Places and so are as Firmly and Canonically settled as any Bishops in the World. This being the true Account of the Reformation of the Church of England I proceed now to consider the Argument in the pretended Conference with Bishop Gunning and Bishop Pearson so many Years ago and lately Reprinted by Henry Cruttenden at Oxon. And first it begins with a Definition of Schism in this Manner Schism is a Voluntary Separation of one Part from the whole true visible Hierarchical Church of Christ And then he goes on to a Syllogism in this manner Whoever make a Voluntary Separation of themselves from the whole true visible Church of Christ are Schismaticks But all those of the English Protestant Party make a Voluntary Separation of themselves from the whole true visible Church of Christ. Therefore all those of the English Protestant Party are Schismaticks He goes about to prove that we separate from the visible Church because we separate from the Roman and Greek Churches and all others in Communion with them and this seems to be the full Substance and Design of the first Argument Now to avoid all doubt and entring into Disputes about Foreign Churches whose Case is in some Regard much different from ours of the Church of England I shall therefore instead of the Protestant Party proceed to Answer for the Protestants of the Church of England I will not go to examine the definition of Schism any one that desires further Satisfaction about it may look into the Conference it self as it is printed where it is learnedly and acutely examined by the Bishops themselves In Answer therefore to the major Proposition it is so far from being true that we separate from the visible Church of Christ that we separate from no true Church or Society of Christians in the World. But to the better stating of this Matter we must consider that there is a twofold Communion one of Coordination and another of Subordination Churches Coordinate i. e. of several Provinces several Nations and Countries owe no Obedience one to another and are not bound to observe the same Rites and Customs and to agree in all School-disputes and Niceties concerning Theological Opinions no more than several Kingdoms are bound to have the same Laws and Constitutions This is acknowledged by all sober Divines in all Ages Accordingly several Churches and Countries have had their peculiar Rules and Orders still living in Peace and Unity and so might it be at this Day did not the Church of Rome by Force and Subtilty go about to enslave all Mankind to their private Errors and Impositions As therefore several Kingdoms do maintain Peace one with another and give all friendly Assistance if there be Occasion for their mutual Happiness and Defence yet keep to their own Laws and Customs in other Matters so tho' we differ in some Opinions and Practices from Rome and other Churches yet we retain that Christian Charity and Respect for them which one Coordinate Church or Kingdom ought to have for another and so there is no Schism made at all by us nor so much as any Separation but what distance of Place and difference of Circumstances do necessarily make Neither do we send Emissaries Abroad to

informed and all the Opportunities of serving God according to the highest Perfection of the Apostolick and Primitive Church Come we now to the second Part of the Argument where the Author goes to prove that the Popish Bishops did nothing whereby they became unlawful Bishops for if they did it ought to be supposed it was that for which they were deprived and then he says all the Reasons for which they were deprived were resisting the pretended Reformation and refusing the Oath of Supremacy and that was but proceeding in Practice according to the common Tenets the holding whereof made them not unlawful Bishops Again whilst they were lawful Bishops in Queen Mary's Days they held it a common necessary Point of Religion to resist the Reformation and refuse the Oath of Supremacy In answer to all which I say That according to the Author 's own Argument they were no lawful Bishops because they either did Schismatically invade the Places of the lawful Bishops or else were willingly Consecrated and did joyn in Communion with those Schismatical Bishops When the Queen therefore did set them aside she did but dispossess Men who had no just Right and remove those by her Civil Authority who had no Power but what they had from Force and the secular Constitution But perhaps it may be objected that though their Title were at first defective and they did Schismatically usurp those Bishopricks yet when their Predecessors were dead that Defect might be overlook'd and by the Reception of the Kingdom their Title might be made good and they very well confirmed in their Possession It would have I confess been happy if there had been such a Catholick Disposition in those Bishops that they would have willingly repented and forsaken their former Errors that so the Kingdom might have confirmed their Authority by the Universal Reception But there were many Reasons why they did refuse and could not own and receive them as lawful Catholick Bishops 1. Many of them had been guilty of shedding much Innocent Blood and the rest had been consecrated and joyned in Communion with them and so in some measure were Partakers of their Guilt and it was not fit such polluted Hands should be permitted to Minister at God's Holy Altar For though there was a Law brought in by the Corruption of later Times whereby Hereticks might be put to Death yet it was a great Abuse of that Law to condemn their Spiritual Fathers and better Catholicks than themselves for Hereticks It being contrary to the Divine and Canon Law that such Men should be allowed to exercise the Episcopal Function the Kingdom had great Reason to set them aside 2. It is a known Doctrine in the Canon Law and Roman Schools and a frequent Practice of Roman Catholicks to depose Princes and absolve their Subjects from their Allegiance and endeavour to exterminate those they call Hereticks under which Pretence many Princes have been destroyed many Rebellions and Tumults have been fomented much Innocent Blood has been spilt and Christendom has been a miserable Theatre of War and Confusion These Bishops therefore who formerly had consented to most Parts of the Reformation now growing such Zealots all of a sudden and refusing to Crown the Queen and to give the Kingdom Security of their peaceable Conformity to the Government by taking the Oath which they had formerly taken and had nothing to except against gave just Reason to suspect they were guilty of the Heretical Doctrine of deposing Princes and stirring up Rebellion to exterminate the Nobility and Gentry that would not Comply with them And these are sufficient Reasons why they could not allow them to have Care of the People's Souls which might have been to the utter Destruction of the Queen and Kingdom For 't is notorious there were many Attempts made and by some of them to that purpose and the Pope some Years after did actually Excommunicate and Depose the Queen and charge all Men under an Anathema to withdraw from her Obedience and Communion and that was the Foundation of the present Schism of English Papists and many Rebellions and Treasons amongst us 3. If there had been none of these Exceptions against the Persons of these Bishops yet the Publick Service which they did impose will justify all Men before God and the Catholick Church for not joyning in Communion with them Because 1. All People were in common Account obliged to Worship that which is in the Priest's Hand and in the Pix with Divine Honour as God himself when we have Reason Scripture and the Authority of Catholick Tradition to perswade us to believe it to be Bread and Wine and therefore they could not Worship it without the guilt of Idolatry while they were of that mind For though it be the general Belief of most Christians Ancient and Modern that the Body and Blood of Christ are verily and indeed taken and received by the faithful in the Lord's Supper yet there is no Reason to believe the Body of Christ is in the Hand of the Priest or in the Pix for our Saviour says only take eat this my Body and many Churches and Divines say 't is the Body of Christ vescentibus sumentibus But none but the Church of Rome does teach it is upon the Altar and in the Hand of the Priest and that what is there is to be adored 2. Our Saviour says except ye eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood ye have no life in you And the Church of God did partake of the Holy Communion in both Kinds for above twelve hundred Years together and all other Churches but the Roman do receive it in both Kinds at this time The Niceties therefore of the Council of Trent and the Roman Schools cannot justify our Disobedience to the Command of Christ and the constant Tradition of the Catholick Church 3. They would allow no other Publick Service but in Latin which People generally did not nor never were likely to understand Contrary to the plain Word of God 1 Cor. 14. These were sufficient Reasons to omit many others why the Queen and Kingdom should refuse to receive and to confirm those Popish Bishops and consequently the Schism that was made was wholly at their Door And the Protestants in joyning with the Reformed Bishops did nothing but that they had warrant to do from the Word of God and the Catholick Church and all other Churches ought to endeavour in a Christian and Peaceable manner to reform these and other Abuses as we have done The third Argument THat Archbishop Parker and all his Associates and consequently all who adhered to him or adhere to their Successors were and are Schismaticks separate from the whole true visible Church of Christ because they were consecrated by Barlow who was intruded into the Place of Christophorson Bishop of Chichester Scory was put by King Edward 6th into Day 's Place then being Bishop of Chichester Coverdale into Vesey's