particular Church it is no Church at all for the Catholicke Church it is not he replyes that though it be not such a particular Congregation as I intend yet it may be a particular Patriarchall Church but 1 then it seemes it is a particular Church which grants my inference 2. It was a particular Church of Christ's institution that I inquired after doth our Authour think that Christ hath appointed any Patriarchall Church a Patriarchall Church as such is such from it's Relation to a Patriarch and he can scarce be thought to judge Patriarches to be of Divine institution who hath cast off and abjured Episcopacy The Donatists are mentioned againe p. 113. And I am againe Charged with an attempt to vindicate them from schisme my thoughts of them I have before declared to the full have no reason to retract any thing from what was then spoken or to adde any thing thereunto if it may satisfie our Authour I here grant they were Schismatickes with what aggravations he pleaseth wherein their schisme consisted I have also declared but he sayes I undertake to exempt some others from schisme I know whom that suffer with them in former and after ages under the same imputation I doe so indeed and I suppose our Authour may ghesse at whom I intend himselfe amongst others I hope he is not so taken up in his thoughts with charging schisme on others as to forget that many the greatest part and number of the true Churchs of Christ doe condemne him for a Schismatick a Donatisticall Schismatick I suppose he acknowledges the Church of Rome to be a true Church the Lutheran I am perswaded he will not deny nor perhaps the Grecian to be so The Episcopall Church of England he contends for and yet all these with one voice cry out upon him for a Schismaticke and as to the plea of the last how he can satisfie his conscience as to the rejection of his lawfull superiors upon his owne principles without pretending any such crime against them as the Donatists did against Caecilianus I professe I do not understand new mention is made of Episcopall ordination p. 120 And they are said to have had their successive ordination from Rome who ordained therein so indeed some say and some otherwise whether they had or no is nothing to me I lay no weight upon it they held I am sure that place in England that without their approbation no man could publickly preach the Gospell to say they were Presbyters and ordained as Presbyters I know not what satisfaction can arise unto Conscience thereby Party and argument may be countenanced by it they professe they ordained as Bishops that for their lives and soules they durst not ordaine but as such so they told those whom they ordained and affirme they have open injury done them by any ones deniall of it As it was the best is to be made of it this shift is not handsome nor is it ingenious for any one that hath looked into Antiquity to charge me with departing from their sense in the notion of schisme declared about the 3d 4th Ages at the same time to maintaine an equality between Bishops and Presbyters or to say that Bishops ordained as Presbyters not as Bishops nor doe I understand the excellency of that order which we see in some Churches where they have two sorts of Elders the one made so by ordination without Election and the other by Election without ordination those who are ordained casting off all power and Authority of them that ordained them and those who are elected immediately rejecting the greatest part of those that chose them Nor did I as is pretend plead for their Presbyterian way in the yeare 46 all the ministers almost in the county of Essex know the contrary one especially who being a man of great ability and moderation of spirit and for his knowledge in those things not behind any man I know in England of his way with whome in that yeare and the next following I had sundry conferences at publicke meetings of ministers as to the severall wayes of Reformation then under proposall But the frivolousnesse of these imputations hath been spoken of before as also the falsnesse of the Calumny which our Authour is pleased to repeat againe about my turning from wayes in Religion My description of a particular Church he once more blames as applicable to the Catholicke Church invisible and to the visible Catholick Church I suppose he meanes as such when a participation in the same ordinances numerically is assigned as its difference He askes whether it becomes my ingenuity to interpret the capability of a Churches reduction to it's primitive constitution by its owne fitnesse and capacity to be so reduced rather then by its externall hinderances or furtherances But with what ingenuity or modesty that question is asked I professe I understand not and pag. 134 he hath this passage only I take notice of his introduction to his answer with thankes for the civility of the inquiry in the manner of its expresion my words were these whether our Reverend Authour doe not in his conscience thinke there was no true Church in England 'till c which puts me into suspition that the Reverend Doctour was offended that I did not alwaies for oft I doe give him that title of the Reverend Authour or the Doctor which made him cry out he was never so dealt withall by any party as by me though upon review I doe not find that I gave him any uncivill language unbeseeming me to give or him to receive and I heare that somebody hath dealt more uncivilly with him in that respect which he took very ill Let this Reverend Authour make what use of it he please I cannot but againe tell him that these things become neither him nor any man professing the Religion of Jesus Christ or that hath any respect to truth or sobriety can any man thinke that in his conscience he gives any credit to the insinuation which here he makes that I should thanke him for calling me Reverend Authour or Reverend Doctor or be troubled for his not useing those expressions Can the mind of an honest man be thought to be conversant with such meane and low thoughts for the Title of Reverend I doe give him notice that I have very little valued it ever since I have considered the saying of Luther Nunquam periclitatur Religio nisi inter Reverendissimos So that he may as to me forbeare it for the future and call me as the Quakers doe and it shall suffice And for that of Doctor it was conferred on me by the University in my absence and against my consent as they have expressed it under their publicke seale nor doth any thing but gratitude and respect unto them make me once own it and freed from that obligation I should never use it more nor did I use it untill some were offended with me blamed me for my
Pope of Rome in any one particular that constituteth him such an officer was once instituted by Christ I shall farther attend unto his Reason for his Authority from that of the High-Priests among the Jewes which was not lost as to it's continuance in the family of Aaron notwithstanding the miscarriage of some individuall Person vested therewithall In the close of the Chapter he reassumes his charge of my renouncing my owne Ordination which with great confidence and without the least scruple he had asserted in his Answer of that assersion he now pretends to give the Reasons whereof the first is this 1. The world lookes on him as an Independent of the highest note therefore he hath renounced his ordination and therefore I dare to say so So much for that reason I understand neither the Logick nor morality of this first Reason 2. He knowes from good hands that some of the Brethren have renounced their Ordination therefore he durst say positively that I have renounced mine Prov. 12. 18. 3. He hath heard that I disswaded others from their ordination and therefore he durst say I renownced my owne and yet I suppose he may possibly disswade some from Episcopall Ordination but I know it not no more than he knowes what he affirmes of me which is false 4. He concludes from the principles in my book of Schisme because I said that to insist upon a succession of ordination from Anti-Christ and the Beast of Rome would if I mistake not keep up in this particular what God would have pulled down therefore I renounced my ordination when he knowes that I avowed the validity of ordination on another account 5. If all this will not doe he tels me of something that was said at a publique meeting at dinner it seemes with the Canons of Chhist-Church viz that I vallued not my ordination by the Bishop of Oxford any more than a crum upon my trencher which words whether ever they were spoken or no or to what purpose or in reference to what Ordination I meane of the two orders or in what sense or with what limitation or as part of what discourse or in comparison of what else or whither solely in refference to the Roman succession in which sense I will have nothing to doe with it I know not at all nor will concerne my selfe to enquire being greatly ashamed to find men professing the Religion of Jesus Christ so farre forgetfull of all common Rules of civility and principles of humane society as to insist upon such vaine groundlesse reports as the Foundations of accusations against their Brethren nor doe I believe that any one of the Reverend Persons quoted will owne this information although I shall not concerne my selfe to make enquiry into their memories concerning any such passage or discourse Much reliefe for the future against these and the like mistakes may be afforded from an easy observation of the different senses wherein the terme of Ordination is often used it is one thing when it is taken largely for the whole appointment of a man to the ministry in which sense I desire our Authour to consider what is written by Beza among Reformed and Gerhard among the Lutheran Divines to omit innumerable others another thing when taken for the imposition of hand whither by Bishops or Presbyters concerning which single Act both as to its order efficacy I have sufficiently delivered my judgment if he be pleased to take notice of it I feare indeed that when men speak of an ordained ministry which in its true and proper sense I shall with them contend for they often relate only to that solemnity restraining the authoritative making of ministers singly thereunto contrary to the intention and meaning of that expression in Scripture antiquity and the best reformed Divines both Calvinists and Lutherans and yet it is not imaginable how some men prevaile by the noise and sound of that Word upon the prejudiced minds of partiall unstudied men A litle time may farther manifest if it be not sufficiently done already that another account is given of this matter by Clemens Tertullian Cyprian Origen Justin Martyr and generally all the first writers of Christians besides the Counsels of old late with innumerable Protestant Authors of the best note to the same purpose This I say is the ground of this mistake whereas sundry things concurre to the calling of Ministers as it belongs to the Church of God the ground and pillar of truth the spouse of Christ Psal. 45. and mother of the family or she that tarryeth at home Psal. 68. unto whom all ministers are stewards 1 Cor. 4. 1. even in that house of God 1 Tim. 3. 15. and sundry qualifications are indispensably previously required in the persons to be called overlooking the necessity of the qualifications required and omitting the duty and authority of the Church Acts 1. 15. Acts 6. 2. 13. 2. 14. 22. the Act of them who are not the whole Church Ephes. 4. 11 12. but only a part of it 1 Cor. 3. 21. 2 Cor. 1. 24. 1 Pet. 5. 3. as to ministry consisting in the approbation and solemne confirmation of what is supposed to go before hath in some mens language gotten the name of ordination and an interpretation of that name to such an extent as to enwrap in it all that is indispensably necessary to the constitution or making of ministers so that where that is obtained in what order soever or by whom soever administred who have first obtained it themselves there is a lawfull and sufficient calling to the ministry Indeed I know no errour about the institutions of Christ attended with more pernitious consequences to the Church of God then this should it be practised according to the force of the principle its selfe Suppose six eight or ten men who have themselves been formerly ordained but now perhaps not by any ecclesiasticall censure but by an act of the civill magistrate are put out of their places for notorious ignorance and scandall should concurre and ordaine an hundred ignorant and wicked persons like themselves to be ministers must they not on this Principle be all accounted ministers of Christ and to be invested with all ministeriall power and so be enabled to propagate their kind to the end of the world and indeed why should not this be granted seeing the whole bulke of the papall ordination is contended for as valid whereas it is notoriously knowne that sundry Bishops among them who perhaps received their own ordination as the reward of a whore being persons of vitious lives and utterly ignorant of the Gospell did sustaine their pompe and sloth by selling holy orders as they called them to the scum and refuse of men but of these things more in their proper place Take then Reader the substance of this chapter in this briefe recapitulation 1. He denies our Churches to be true Churches and our Ministers true Ministers 2. He hath renounced his owne ordination 3. When some
it be rotten or null in the foundation yet by continuance and time it might obtaine validity and strength When the claime is by succession from such a stock or root if you suppose once a totall intercision in the succession from that stock or root there is an utter end put to that claime let us now consider how the case is with them from whom this claime is derived 1. It is notoriously knowne that amongst them the validity of the sacraments depends upon the intention of the Administrator It is so with them as to every thing they call a sacrament now to take one step backwards that baptisme will by some of ours be scarce accounted valid which is not administred by a lawfull minister suppose now that some Pope ordaining a Bishop in his stable to satisfy a Whore had not an intention to make him a Bishop which is no remote surmise he being no Bishop rightly ordained all the Priests by him afterwards consecrated were indeed no priests and so indeed had no power to administer any Sacraments and so consequently the baptisme that may lye for ought we know at the root of that which some of us pretend unto was originally absolutely null and void and could never by tract of time be made valid or effectuall for like a muddy fountaine the farther it goes the more filthy it is or suppose that any Priest baptizing one who afterwards came to be Pope from whom all Authority in that Church doth flow and is derived had no intention to baptize him what will become of all that ensues thereon It is endlesse to pursue the uncertainties and intanglements that insue on this head of account and sufficiently easy it is to manifest that whosoever resolves his interest in Gospell priviledges into this foundation can have no assurance of faith nay nor tolerably probable conjecture that he is baptized or was ever made partaker of any ordinance of the Gospell Let them that delight in such troubled waters sport themselves in them for my owne part considering the state of that Church for some yeares if not Ages wherein the fountaines of all Authority amongst them were full of filth and blood there Popes upon their owne confession being made set up and pulled downe at the pleasure of vile impudent domineering strumpets and supplying themselves with officers all the world over of the same spirit and stamp with themselves and that for the most part for hire being in the meane time all Idolaters to a man I am not willing to grant that their Good and upright intention is necessary to be supposed as a thing requisite unto my interest in any priviledge of the Gospell of Christ 2. It is an ecclesiasticall determination of irrefragable Authority amongst them that whosoever he be that administers baptisme so he use the matter and forme that baptisme is Good and valid and not to be reiterated yea Pope Nicholas in his Resolutions and determinations upon the enquiry of the Bulgarians whose decrees are authentick and recorded in their Counsells Tom 2. Crabb p. 144. declares the judgment of that Church to the full They tell him that many in their Nation were baptized by an unknowne person a Jew or a Pagan they knew not whether and enquire of him whether they were to be rebaptized or no whereunto he answers si in nomine S. S. Trinitatis vel tantum in Christi nomine sicut in Act is Apostolorum legimus baptizati sunt unum quippe idemque est ut S. Ambrosius expressit constat eos denuo non esse baptizandos if they were baptized in the name of the Trinity or of Christ they are not to be baptized againe Let a blasphemous Jew or Pagan do it so it be done the work is wrought grace conveyed and baptisme valid The constant practise of women baptizing amongst them is of the same import and what doth Mr Cawdry think of this kind of Baptisme Is it not worth the contending about to place it in the derived succession of ours who knowes but that some of these persons baptized by a counterfeit impostor on purpose to abuse and defile the institutions of our blessed Saviour might come to be baptizers themselves yea Bishops or Popes from whom all ecclesiasticall Authority was to be derived and what evidence or certainty can any man have that his baptisme doth not flow from this fountaine 3. Nay upon the Generall account if this be required as necessary to the administration of that ordinance that he that doth baptize be rightly and effectually baptized himselfe who can in faith bring an infant to any to be baptized unlesse he himselfe saw that person rightly baptized As to the matter of Baptisme then we are no more concerned then as to that of Ordination by what waies or meanes soever any man comes to be a minister according to the mind of Jesus Christ by that way and meanes he comes to have power for a due administration of that ordinance concerning which state of things our Author may do well to consult Beza in the place mentioned Many other passages there are in this Chapter that might be remarked and a returne easily made according to their desert of untruth and impertinency but the insisting on such things lookes more like childrens playing at pushpin then the management of a serious disputation Take an instance pag. 23. he seemes to be much offended with my commending him and tells me as Jerome said of Ruffinus I wrong him with prayses when yet the utmost I say of him is that I had received a better character of him then he had given of himselfe in his book pag. 10. and that his proceeding was unbecoming his worth gravity and profession pag. 46. or so Grave and Reverend a person as he is reported to be pag. 121. wherein it seemes I have transgressed the rule {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} The businesse of his second Chapter is to make good his former charge of my inconstancy and inconsistency with my selfe as to my former and present Opinions which he had placed in the Frontispiece of his other Treatise The Impertinency of this Chapter had beene intolerable but that the loose discourses of it are relieved by a scheme of my self-Contradictions in the close His designe he professeth in his former discourse was not to blast my Reputation or to cause my person to suffer but to prevent the prevalency of my way by the Authority of my person That is it was not his intention it was only his intention for such a purpose I blesse my God I have good security through Grace that whether he or others like minded with himselfe intend any such thing or no in those proceedings of his and theirs which seemed to have in their owne nature a tendency thereunto my reputation shall yet be preserved in that state and Condition as is necessary to accompany me in the duties and workes of my Generation that I shall through the hand of
they neither Agree with me nor with them They say it is put into diverse hands And he saith it is Given only to Believers And is not this a Contradiction Ans No verily For when I say It is given to Believers as such and expresse virtually as well as Formally The meaning is cleare It is given to all Believers and only to Believers and by them Communicated to such as they doe orderly choose and call forth to the exercise of the same And the publishers of the keyes I doubt not will say as much When I said in the way That the brethren might not administer Sacraments in Defect of all Officers And therefore made it appeare that one sort of men the brethren had not Received all the Power of the keyes Formally The Replyer returneth Truly this is to Discover the Contradiction the more For if the Power of the keyes be Delivered to Believers as such then the Power of Administring the Sacraments is Given to them for that is a Part of the Power of the keyes Ans. It is wearysome to repeat so often the same Answer yet let me say it once more and leave it He that saith Believers Receive all the Power of the keyes as Profest Believers He saith all of them have Received the Power and they only and such as Receive their Power from them And this is the force of quateuus Tale That whosoever Receive any thing as such all such doe Receive it none but such as Derive it from them But saith the Replyer In the Way he giveth the greater part of Church power to the Body of the Church pag. 45. to wit to Ordaine and in some cases to excommunicate all their Church Officers which are the highest Acts of Rule as else where he speaketh Therefore he may not Deny them the lesser which is to Administer the Sacraments Ans. The answer is ready at hand and was ready at his hand in Part 2 of the Congregationall way cleared pag. 29. where I Distinguish Potestas into officiariam and honorariam Excommunication by the Brethren is the highest Act of Honoraria Potestas but not of Officiaria Potestas To Preach the word with Authority and to Administer the Seales of it are acts of the highest office-Power in the Church Popish Divines would take it very ill if any Act of Church Power were said to be higher than Conficere corpus Domini But excommunication largly taken is an Act of a Power proper to a Community Any community hath power ex Natura rei to Receive into their Communion to cast not of their Communion Every sound Body hath a power to cast out his own superfluous humours and to cut off his own Putrid members As for ordination though we looke at it with Dr Ames as Adjunctum consummans of the Peoples Election and vocation of their Officers and therefore not utterly Excentrical from the Peoples power yet our Churches doe not Practise it ordinarily where they have Elders of their own or can Procure other Elders to Joyne with them As for that last words in the Scheme of the first Contradiction I know not whether the Replyer put any weight or stresse in that in the first Columne the keyes are said to be given to wit partly to Believers and in the same Columne againe to the Fraternity with the Presbytery in the second Columne to Profest Believers In the third to Believers Publickly Professing their Faith And in Mr Hookers Judgment Not to Believers as Believers but as Believers Covenanting But if it be requisite to say any thing to this I would say 1. That the Fraternity and Profest Believers and Believers Publickly Professing their Faith are all one And the common Name of Believers is often put for all the rest They that were Added to the Church Acts 2. 47 and 41 are called by the common name of Believers Acts 2. 44. and 4. 32. when Mr Hooker saith the Power is not Given to Believers as Believers but as Believers Covenanting He meaneth the same that I do by Profest Believers As for women whom the Replyer cast in our way before though they be Believers and so partake in the same common Salvation as also in the word and seales yet because of the frailty of their sex they are expresly exempted by the Apostle from any Act of Power in the Church 1 Cor. 14. 34 35. and 1 Tim: 2. 11 12. Yet that Impeacheth not the Generality of the Proposition That all the Fraternity of Believers have Part in the Power of the Keyes That all men once Dye is the generall Proposition of the Apostle Heb 9. 27. which is not Impeached by the Translation of Enoch and Elias Having thus cleared the first Answer to this contradiction Let us weigh next what he saith to the second Answer which saith he is given to help out the former for I had said 2. If there had been some Difference between the Keyes and the Way in some expressions yet it lay rather in Logicall Termes then in the Doctrine of Divinity or Church Practise and such is this about the first subject of the Power of the Keyes What saith the Replyer to this He Returneth a double exception 1. Saith He Had it been only a lesser Difference about a Logicall Notion as he minceth it the Assertor had not Observed it But a difference of the highest magnitude to Contradiction in Delivering a New way is very Remarkable How shall we be brought to Agree with them that contradict not only one another but one man himselfe Answer 1. It was not any weaknesse of the first Answer that needed a second to Help it out but variety of fit matter for a just Defence produced it It needed no help but to cleare it selfe from groundlesse exceptions Answer 2. The seeming Difference between the way and the Keyes if any be in this point it lyeth rather in Logicall expressions then in the Doctrine of Divinity or Church Practise For what ever the Different Judgments of men of our way may be touching the first subject of the Power of the Keyes some Placing it in the Body of the Church others Dividing it between officers and Brethren yet in the Doctrine of Divinity we all Agree with one Accord that the Church even the Body of Church-members have power to choose their officers to Admit members and to censure offenders And that the officers only have Power to Preach the word with office and Authority and to Administer the Sacraments And according to this unity of judgment is the uniforme Practise of our Churches And therefore let mincing be left to curious Cookes to prepare their shread meat for queazy stomackes or let it be left to such as would make the best of a bad cause we neither Distrust our Cause to be of God nor do feare any thing more then that it should be hid and clouded with prejudices and calumnies from such as know it not and yet seek the Truth in sincerity And
keyes are Given to the Church of Believers The way pag. 1. that is a combination of Faithfull men as Mr. Hooker 2. The key of knowledg belongeth to all the faithfull whether Joyned to any particular Church or no The Keyes pag. 11. 2 The key of knowledge is given not only to the Church but to some before they enter into the Church Keyes pag. 2. Ans. This terme the key of knowledge is taken from our Saviour's words in Luk. 11. 52. Where he Reproveth the Lawyers who had taken away the key of knowledge and neither entred in themselves nor suffered others to enter The words argue that the entring in was not into the visible Church for into that the Lawyers had entred and were willing to admit others He speaketh therefore of entring into the state of Grace and so into the kingdome of Grace and Glory The solution then is plaine and easy The key of knowledge or Faith belongeth to all the faithfull whether Joyned to any particular Church or no For by it they enter into the Kingdome of Grace and Glory But if we speak of the keyes of a Particular visible Church they are all given to the Church or Congregation of Believers Touching the third Contradiction The third Contradiction is decyphered thus 3. The key of Order is Common to all the members of the Church keyes pag. 8. Then say we to Women and Children 3 It is not every place or Order in the Church that giveth Power to Receive Ordinances much lesse to Dispense them as Children and Women Way cleared part 2. pag. 19. Ans. 1. It hath been Answered above that such Generall Propositions hold true notwithstanding some knowne particular exceptions It is appointed to all men once to Dye which is an undoubted Truth though Enoch and Elias never Dyed Ans. 2. The Children of Church-members are in Order to Baptisme but excluded from the Lord's Table 1 Cor. 11. 28. Women have some parts of the key of Order whereby they have power to walke Orderly themselves and in a private way to help others to walk Orderly also Act. 18. 26. Tit. 2. 3 4 5. Only they have not Power to Admit members choose Officers censure Offenders But if they have any part of the power of the keyes the Proposition is true yea and it were true also though they had been kept from all Interest in the Exercise of the keyes Touching the fourth Contradiction The fourth Contradiction is thus laid out 4. Ordination is a work of Rule The way pag. 49. Ordination and Jurisdiction both Acts of Rule pertaine indifferently to all the Presbyters ibid. pag. 49. 4. As for Election Ordination of Officers these things the brethren may doe if need be without Officers The way pag. 45. 101. 4. Ordination is not an Act of Supreme Jurisdiction but of Order rather Hooker's Survey part 2. 75. Ans. Ordination They that make the least of it make it an Act of Prayer such Prayer by which the lesse is blessed of the greater as it is in all Prayer which is Joyned with Imposition of hands which Argueth it is an Act of majority of Power and majority of Power may without a Soloecisme be called Rule though not office-Rule yet Honourable preheminence I no where call it an Act of Supreme Jurisdiction which is that Mr Hooker Denies and seemeth to Deny it not Positively neither but comparatively rather Ordination saith he is not an Act of Supreme Jurisdiction but of Order rather then there is no contradiction here Nor will it be found in the other clause for though Ordination and Jurisdiction be said in the Way pag 49. to pertaine indifferently to all the Presbyters yet that is expresly spoken in opposition to the Lord Bishops who usurped both into their own hands as their peculiar prerogative and though I say else where in the Way that in Election Ordination of Officers the Brethren may act if need be without Officers yet the very word of limitation if need be Argueth that in ordinary cases ordination pertaineth to the Presbyters as other Acts there mentioned doe pertaine to the Presbyters and Brethren met together but as for Election I take it to pertaine principally to the Brethren Touching the 5th Contradiction The 5th Contradiction followeth in this sort 5. The keye of Authority or Rule is committed to the Elders of the Church and so the Act of Rule is the proper Act of their office Keyes pag. 20. The People discerning and approving the Justice of the censure give consent and Obedience to the will and Rule of Christ keyes pag. 15. 37. 41. The People stand in an Order even an orderly Subjection according to the Order of the Gospel pag. 11. 5. In case the Officers doe Erre and give offence they shall be governed by the whole Body of the Brethren The Way Pag. 100. The Church exerciseth severall Acts of Authority over the Elders The Way pag. 101. The People have some storke of Power and Authority in the Government of the Church pag. 36. They Rule the Church by Appointing their own officers ibid. pag. 16. Ans. 1. The former Columne in all the three Places speaketh of Elders walking in the right Administration of their office then in Propriety of speech the Key of Authority and Rule is committed to them 1 Tim. 5. 17. and is there made the proper Act of their office Then it is that the People Discerning the will and Judgment of Christ in their Judgment they do give Consent and Obedience to the will of Christ in Censures Advised by them Then it is also that they walke in orderly subjection to their Elders Heb. 13. 17. But the latter Columne speaketh of the Power of the Church over the Elders chiefly in case of the Elders mal-Administration of their office or misgovernment of themselves But then the Power which the Church putteth forth It is not office Power which is properly Authority but Potestas honoraria Answer 2. In Columne the second when it is said The People have some stock of Power and Authority in the Government of the Church Keyes pag. 36. They are the words of an objection not of mine owne Assertion And though some where I speak of Acts of Authority over the Elders I do clearely explaine my selfe in the Keyes pag. 36. That Authority is taken in a large sense and after a sort when it is Acknowledged in the People over the Elders As 1. When a man acteth according to his owne will freely he is then said to be {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Dominus sui Actus so the People in all the Acts of liberty which they put forth they are Domini sui Actus Lords of their owne Actions 2. The people by sundry Acts of liberty as in Election of officers in sending forth their messengers in concurrence with their Elders in the Admission of members and censure of Offenders in the Determination and Promulgation of Synodall Acts They have a great stroke and Power in
according to the severall Relations he stood in If it be said All that share in the subject to whom the keyes are Given in these words To Thee they all share alike in the same equall Power of the keyes because they have all the same Commission I Answer it would indeed so follow If there were no other severall Commissions granted in Scripture else where but only here But cleare it is from other Scriptures That Power of Authoritative Preaching and Administering the Sacraments is Given only to Apostles Elders and such like officers but Power of Priviledge and Judgment is given all the Fraternity CHAP. 6. Touching the 10th Contradiction with the 11th 12th 13th The 10th Contradiction is thus held forth 10. Pastour and Flocke are Relates and so he is a Pastour to none but his owne Congregation This is the Common Tenent 10. The members of any Church we Admâ—t tâ— the Lords Table if they bring letters testimoniall and their Children to Baptisme The Way p. 68. The Keyes p. 17. 10. Administration of Sacraments is a Ministeriall Act and what Authority hath a Pastour to do it or they to Receive it from him to whom he is no Pastour Mr. Hocker Surv. Part. 2. 64 65. Pastours and Teachers might Pray and Preach in other Churches besides their owne but not Administer seales and Censures Bartlets Modell pag. 63. Answer 1. That Appearance of Contradiction is easily Removed if our Doctrine and Practise be knowne as it is what a Pastour doeth in his owne Congregation and to his owne Flock he doeth it by Pastorall Power and Authority what he doth to the members of other Churches abroad or out of his own Congregation He doeth it not Authoritativè but Precariò and not in a constant but in a transient way which the communion of Churches doth not only Admit but readily as occasion serveth Desire What Mr Hooker doubted of in this Point he Answereth himselfe in the end of the same Pag. 65. If Paul Apollos and Cephas things present and things to come be all Given to the Particular Church of Corinth 1 Cor. 3. 22. who yet had no peculiar Interest in them more then other Churches By the same Right all the officers and all their Gifts are theirs also in the same way Theirs they are not {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} for each Church hath his peculiar offices as their owne propriety Then they are theirs {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} for their use not Authoritatively nor Ordinarily but occasionally as God giveth opportunity Ordinarily as the Officers must attend to their owne Flock so must the Flock Depend upon their owne Officers The officers have no Authority over any Flock but that which the Holy Ghost hath committed to them Neither can any other Flock command the employment of any of their Gifts or any act of their office amongst them But upon occasion in a transient way as they may have need of their Gifts so they may have need of some Act of their Office and accordingly may Desire it and Receive it The 11th Contradiction which is thus set forth 11. We Receive the Sacrament of the Lords Supper say the same of ' Baptisme as a seâ—le of Communion not only with the Lord Jesus in our owne Churches but in all the Churches of the Saints Keyes pag. 17. Del. of 9. Posit pag. 133 134. 11. Baptisme and so the other Sacrament sealeth up the Externall Communion with a Particular Church c. Mr H. Surv. Part. 3. pag. 27. And he disputes against it as to the Catholick Church Answer When we say that the Sacraments are Seales of Communion with the Lord Jesus not only in our owne Church but in all the Churches of the Saints we do not meane that they seale up the same measure of Externall Communion with other Churches as with our owne They do not seale up this Communion That their officers are our officers and we their Flock Or that we have the same Power over them which we have over our owne members This were to seale up not a Communion but a Confusion of Churches And this is that which Mr Hooker in the place alledged doeth deny as our selves also do The 12th Contradiction is thus declared 12. It is an Act of the Elders Power and Authority to Examine whether Officers or members before they be Received of the Church Keyes pag 21. 12. As for Admission Election Ordination of Officers Admission or shutting out of Members these things the Brethren may do without officers The Way p. 45. 101 Answer The Answer is Obvious what the Elders do in this kind Ex Officio The Church may do the like in the want of Elders The 13th Contradiction is set before us thus 13. Ordination is then Compleat when the People hath Chosen an Officer and the Presbytery hath laied their Hands on him Keyes p. 37. 13. But if the Church want a Presbytery for want of Elders they want a warrant to Repaire to the Presbytery of another Church to Impose hands upon their Elect Elders Way p. 50. Answer In that Place of the Keyes I only Assert and Prove That a man of Sufficient Gifts chosen by the People of the Church and Ordained by the Presbytery of his owne Church wanteth nothing to the compleat Integrity of his calling The Right hand of Fellowship given by the Elders of other Churches expresseth their Approbation of his calling but addeth nothing to the essence or Integrity of his calling But when I say that in want of a Presbytery of their owne they want a warrant to Repaire to the Presbytery of another Church for his Ordination I no where say That the Officer Elected wanteth the complete Integrity of his calling for want of the Imposition of hand of the Presbytery of another Church And yet that had been requisite to make up a pretence of a Contradiction The Replyer knoweth that a Church wanting a Presbytery of their owne to lay hands upon an Elect Officer in our Judgment they may appoint some of the Elders and graver Members of their owne Body to supply the Defect of their owne Presbytery which we Account sufficient to the completing of his calling in such a case But when I said in the Way That the Church wanting a Presbytery they wanted a warrant to Repaire to the Presbytery of another Church to Impose hands upon their Elect Elders I meant in way of Subordination to an Extrinsecall Power For it is against that which both the Reasons Plead which I there Alleadged for that Purpose But I no where dislike That a Church wanting a Presbytery of their owne may send for Elders of other Churches to Assist them and to Joyne with them in the Ordination of their Elect Officers CHAP. 7. Touching the 14th Contradiction with 15. and 16. The 14th Contradiction is thus laied out 14. Paul and Barnabas were Ordained to that Office of Apostleship by the Imposition of hands of some officers or Members of the Church Way