Selected quad for the lemma: power_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
power_n	bishop_n	hand_n	presbyter_n	3,377	5	10.4292	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A74979	Excommunicatio excommunicata, or, A censure of the Presbyterian censures and proceedings in the Classis at Manchester wherein is modestly examined what ecclesiastical or civil function [sic] they pretend for their new and usurped power : in a discourse betwixt the ministers of that Classis, and some dissenting Christians.	Allen, Isaac, 17th cent.; Allen, Isaac, 17th cent.; Heyrick, Richard, 1600-1667.	1658 (1658)	Wing A1026A; ESTC R42720	45,307	67

as is consonant to the will of God and universall practice of primitive Churches c. In that you do here joyn the will of God and the universal practise of primitive Churches together as you joyned the Word of God and the constant practise of the Catholique Church before you seem to us to make up the rule whereby we must judge what Government it is that you pray might be established of these two viz. the will of God and the universal practise of primitive Churches Or that it is the universal practise of primitive Churches That must be our sure guide and comment upon the Word of God to tell us what is his will revealed these touching Church Government and discipline If this be your sense as we apprehend it is we must needs profess that herein we greatly differ from you as not conceiving it to be sound and orthodoxe It being the Word of God alone and the approved practise of the Church recorded there whether it was the universall and constant practise of the Church or no that is to be the onely rule to judge by in this or any other controversies in matters of Religion But yet admitting for the present the rule you seem to make we should desire to know from you what that Church Government is which is so consonant to the will of God and universall practise of primitive Churches For our own parts we think it will be very hard for you or any others to demonstrate out of any Records of Antiquity what was the universall practise of primitive Churches for the whole space of the first 300. years after Christ or the greatest part thereof excepting so much as is left upon record in the Scriptures of the new Testament the Monuments of Antiquity that concerne those times for the greatest part of them being both imperfect and far from shewing us what was the universall practise of the Church then though the practises of some Churches may be mentioned and likewise very questionable At least it will not be easie to assure us that some of those that go under the names of the most approved Authors of those times are neither spurious nor corrupted And hereupon it will unavoidably follow that we shall be left very doubtfull what Government it is that is most consonant to the universall and constant practise of primitive Churches for that time But as touching the rule it self which you seem here to lay down we cannot close with it We do much honour and reverence the primitive Churches But yet we believe we owe more reverence to the Scriptures then to judge them either imperfect or not to have light enough in themselves for the resolving all doubts touching matters of faith or practise except it be first resolved what was either the concurrent interpretation of the Fathers or the universall and constant practise of the Churches of those times Besides that admitting this for a rule that the universall and constant practise of the primitive Churches must be that which must assure us what is the will of God revealed in Scripture concerning the Government which he hath appointed in the Church our faith is hereupon resolved into a most uncertain ground and so made fallible and turned into opinion For what monuments of Antiquity besides the Scripture can assure us touching the matters of fact therein contained that they were such indeed as they are there reported to be the Authors of them themselves being men that were not infallibly guided by the Spirit But yet supposing we could be infallibly assured which yet never can be what was the universall and constant practise of the primitive Churches how shall that be a rule to assure us what is most consonant to the will of God When as we see not especially in such matters as are not absolutely necessary to salvation Even as a Generall Councill it self is subject to errrour but that the universall practise of the Churches might in some things be dissonant to the will of God revealed in Scriptures And so the universall practise of primitive Churches can be no certain rule to judge by what Church Government is most consonant to the will of God revealed in his Word We know there are corruptions in the best of men There was such hot contention betwixt Paul and Barnabas Gal. 2. as caused them to part asunder Peter so failed in his practise as that though before some came from James he did eat with the Gentils yet when they were come he withdrew himself fearing them of the Circumcision And hereupon not only other Jews dissembled with him but Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation Whence it 's clear that the examples of the best men even in those things wherein they went contrary to the rule of Gods Word are of a spreading nature and the better the Persons that give the bad example are the greater the danger of the more universall leavening Nay we finde that not only some few Apostolicall men had their failings but even Apostolicall primitive Churches did in the very face of the Apostles they being yet alive make great defection both in regard of opinions and practises As from the examples of the Churches of Corinth Galatia and the Churches of Asia is manifest The Apostle also tels us that even in his time the mystery of iniquity began to work And in after times we know how the Doctrine was corrupted what gross superstition crept into the Church what domination was striven for amongst the Pastors and Bishops of the Churches Till at length Antichrist was got up into his seat unto which height yet he came not all at once but by steps and degrees Besides it is of fresh remembrance that notwithstanding the reformation happily brought about in our own Church in regard of Doctrine and worship after those dismall Marian times yet the corruption in regard of Government continued such during the time of the late Prelacy which yet was taken away in other reformed Churches that the Pastors were deprived of that power of rule that our Church acknowledgeth did belong to them of right and which did anciently belong to them however the exercise thereof did after grow into a long disuse as hath been shewed before And therefore when we consider on the one hand that the superiority which the Bishop obtained at the first above the Presbyter in the ancient Church and which was rather obtained consuetudine Ecclesiae then by Divine right did at the length grow to that height that the Pastors were spoiled of all power of rule so we cannot much wonder on the other hand that the ruling Elder was quite turned out of doors For the proof of the being and exercise of whose office in the purer times there are notwithstanding produced testimonies of the ancients by Divines both at home and abroad that have written about that subject and to which we do therein refer you As there do remain some footsteps and shadow of

in those very termes covenanted against that the liberty that is granted to some be not extended to Popery and Prelacy And therefore if any Diocesan Bishop should exercise his jurisdiction and excommunicate any person within this Land wherein by Authority as you may see afterward there is also an appointment of another Government we leave it to those that are learned in the Law to determine whether such Diocesan Bishops would not run themselves into a praemunire But if you do not restrain lawfull Pastors to these onely our doubt yet is Whether you mean not onely such Ministers as were ordained by Diocesan Bishops excluding those out of the number that since their being taken away have been ordained by Presbyters onely If this be your sense we shall onely at present minde you of what is published to be the Judgement of Dr Vsher late Primate of Ireland in a Book lately put forth by Dr Bernard Preacher to the Honourable Society of Grayes-Inne and whom though a stranger to us and one of a different judgement from us in the point of Episcopacy yet we reverence for his moderation and profession of his desires for peace wishing that such as do consent in substantials for matter of Doctrine would consider of some conjunction in point of Discipline That private interests and circumstantials might not keep them thus far asunder * See pag. 14● of his last Book In which wish as we do cordially joyn our selves so we heartily desire that all godly and moderate spirited men throughout the Land would also close But the book which the said Doctor hath lately published is intituled The Judgement of the late Archbishop of Armagh and Primate of Ireland c. In this Book this Doctor tells us that the late Primate in Answer to a letter of his sent to him as it should seem for that purpose declares his Judgement touching the ordination of the Ministry in the Reformed Churches in France and Holland There he saith that Episcopus Presbyter gradu tantum differunt non ordine And consequently that in places where Bishops cannot be had the ordination by Presbyters standeth valid And in the close of his Answer about this point he saith That for the testifiying of his Communion with the Churches of the Low-Countryes of whom he had spoken immediately before and which he there professeth He doth love and honour as true members of the Universall Church notwithstanding the difference that was betwixt him and them about the point of Episcopacy he doth profess That with like affection he should receive the blessed Sacrament at the hands of the Dutch Ministers if he were in Holland as he should do at the hands of the French Ministers if he were in Charenton See pag. 125. and 126. Hence you may perceive that the Judgement of Dr Usher was That the Ordination of Presbyters where Bishops cannot be had standeth valid And consequently if you be of his opinion and you must have stronger reasons then ever yet we have seen to bear you out therein if you judge otherwise they ought to be esteemed lawfull Pastors to whom you grant the power of Excommunication Bishops being now taken away and may not therefore ordain according to the present Laws of the Land The said Dr Bernard hath some animadvertisements upon that Letter in which Dr Usher doth deliver his judgement as above said and there shews that he was not in this Judgement of his singular He alledgeth Dr Davenant that pious and learned Bishop of Sarisbury as consenting with him in it in his determinations quaest 42. and produceth the principall of the Schooleman Gulielmus Parisiensis Gerson Durand c. and declares it to be the Generall opinion of the Schoolemen Episcopatum ut distinguitur à simplici sacerdotio non esse alium ordinem c. see pag. 130. of the aforenamed Book as also pag. 131.132 Where the concurrence of Dr Davenant with Dr Vsher in his judgement about this matter is declared more fully He addes also others as in speciall Dr Richard Field in his learned Book of the Church lib. 3. cap. 39. and lib. 5. cap. 27. And also that Book intituled A defence of the Ordination of the Ministers of the Reformed Churches beyond the Seas maintained by Archdeacon Mason against the Romanists And further he saith He hath been assured it was not onely the Judgement of Bishop Overall but that he had a principall hand in it He tell us that the fore-mentioned Author produceth many testimonies The Mr of the Sentences and most of the Schoolemen Bonaventure Thomas Aquinas Durand Dominicus Soto Richardus Armachanus Tostatus Alphonsus a Castro Gerson Petrus Canisius to have affirmed the same and at last quoteth Medina a principall Bishop of the Councill of Trent who affirmed That Jerome Ambrose Augustine Sedulius Primasius Chrysostome Theodoret Theophylact were of the same judgment also But you may see these things your selves in Dr Bernard pag. 132 133 134. Wee have been onely at the pains to transcribe them Wee could alledg many more Testimonies to prove this But wee count these sufficient and do alledg these the rather because brought by one that is of the same Judgment with you as wee suppose But having declared how farr you accord with us in Judgment touching the way of informing the ignorant and reforming the wicked persons and schismatical c. you tell us That you are not therein so wavering and unsettled in your apprehensions of the Case as to submit either it or them either wholly or in part to the contrary Judgment and determination of a general Council of the Eastern and Western Churches much lesse to a new termed Provincial Assembly at Preston wherein you professe no little to differ from us That which wee submitted wholly to the Judgment of the Provincial Assembly was not whether Catechizing was a way appointed by God in his Word for the information of the ignorant but in what way of Catechizing as is expressed in our Paper the ignorant in our Congregations who never offered themselves unto the Sacrament were most like to be brought to some measure of knowledg and which is not a matter of Doctrine but of Order onely Neither was it by us submitted to that Assembly whether the censures of the Church were the means appointed by Christ for the reforming of the scandalous But whether it might not be meet pro hic nunc and as the present case stood to apply the Censures and so put in practice at this time that which in the General wee were sufficiently assured from the word of Truth was the way for their reformation and with which wee were both by God and Man intrusted to dispense unto those that were openly scandalous in our Congregations However they contented themselves to live in the want of the Lords Supper nor ever presented themselves to the Eldership to be admitted to it And this because meerely circumstantiall as to the dispencing of the Censures at