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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A55393 Quo warranto, or, A moderate enquiry into the warrantablenesse of the preaching of gifted and unordained persons where also some other questions are discussed : viz. concerning [brace] ministerial relation, election, ordination : being a vindication of the late Jus divinum ministerii evangeliei ... from the exceptions of Mr. John Martin, Mr. Sam. Pette, Mr. Frederick Woodal ... in their late book, intituled The preacher sent / by Matthew Poole ... Poole, Matthew, 1624-1679. 1659 (1659) Wing P2850; ESTC R33938 110,108 175

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because_o there_o be_v some_o other_o passage_n which_o seem_v to_o be_v argumentative_a though_o scatter_v elsewhere_o i_o think_v fit_a to_o do_v they_o that_o right_n as_o to_o bring_v they_o in_o here_o that_o so_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v all_o their_o strength_n together_o their_o second_o argument_n be_v this_o this_o make_v the_o power_n of_o ordinary_a minister_n as_o extensive_a and_o large_a as_o that_o of_o the_o apostle_n ans._n i_o answer_v plain_o and_o clear_o that_o the_o difference_n between_o apostolical_a and_o pastoral_a power_n lie_v not_o in_o the_o extent_n of_o their_o relation_n if_o any_o assert_v it_o let_v they_o prove_v it_o but_o in_o the_o independency_n superiority_n and_o singularity_n of_o jurisdiction_n which_o if_o it_o be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o distinguish_v between_o apostle_n and_o ordinary_a minister_n beside_o their_o excellent_a and_o infallible_a gift_n i_o dare_v make_v our_o brethren_n judge_n their_o three_o argument_n be_v this_o 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wisdom_n or_o else_o 3._o this_o great_a inconvenience_n will_v follow_v that_o christ_n have_v entrust_v this_o great_a power_n in_o such_o hand_n as_o be_v unable_a of_o themselves_o to_o manage_v it_o and_o thus_o i_o have_v dispatch_v the_o first_o branch_n and_o show_v that_o the_o people_n be_v not_o able_a to_o judge_v the_o second_o branch_n be_v this_o the_o people_n be_v not_o necessary_o require_v to_o be_v able_a to_o judge_v of_o a_o minister_n ability_n as_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v if_o it_o do_v belong_v to_o they_o to_o give_v the_o essence_n of_o the_o ministerial_a call_n i_o say_v if_o it_o do_v belong_v to_o every_o church-member_n as_o such_o as_o his_o privilege_n to_o have_v a_o joint_a power_n to_o give_v the_o essence_n of_o the_o ministerial_a call_n than_o it_o belong_v to_o every_o church-member_n as_o his_o duty_n and_o he_o ought_v by_o divine_a appointment_n to_o be_v fit_a to_o judge_v of_o a_o minister_n ability_n and_o this_o will_v be_v a_o necessary_a qualification_n in_o every_o church-member_n not_o only_o that_o he_o be_v pious_a but_o also_o judicious_a and_o prudent_a etc._n etc._n and_o in_o all_o respect_v able_a to_o judge_v of_o a_o man_n fitness_n for_o the_o ministry_n so_o that_o if_o a_o man_n be_v never_o so_o godly_a and_o desirous_a of_o church-membership_a etc._n etc._n if_o he_o be_v apparent_o unfit_a to_o judge_v of_o a_o minister_n ability_n as_o many_o hundred_o of_o godly_a people_n unquestionable_o be_v he_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v admit_v a_o church-member_n because_o he_o want_v one_o necessary_a qualification_n for_o that_o relation_n which_o because_o it_o be_v a_o gross_a and_o manifest_a absurdity_n therefore_o it_o be_v not_o necessary_o require_v that_o church-member_n shall_v
speak_v proper_o their_o master_n joy_n enter_v into_o they_o and_o a_o man_n be_v say_v to_o be_v in_o drink_n though_o drink_v be_v in_o he_o so_o it_o can_v seem_v strange_a if_o a_o office_n be_v say_v to_o be_v in_o a_o man_n though_o in_o propriety_n of_o speech_n he_o be_v in_o his_o office_n for_o the_o three_o branch_n 1._o a_o extraordinary_a office_n may_v be_v convey_v in_o this_o case_n by_o ordinary_a officer_n for_o 1._o it_o be_v common_o think_v that_o paul_n do_v concur_v in_o this_o ordination_n with_o that_o presbytery_n 2._o they_o ordain_v he_o by_o divine_a direction_n and_o as_o it_o be_v no_o dishonour_n to_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n that_o they_o be_v ordain_v to_o that_o work_n act_v 13._o 1_o 2._o by_o person_n inferior_a to_o they_o see_v those_o person_n do_v it_o by_o the_o immediate_a appointment_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n so_o neither_o be_v it_o any_o prejudice_n to_o the_o extraordinarinesse_n of_o timothy_n office_n that_o it_o be_v confer_v by_o ordinary_a officer_n see_v they_o confer_v it_o by_o the_o conduct_n of_o prophetical_a designation_n 3._o what_o more_o ordinary_a both_o in_o state_n and_o church_n then_o for_o a_o person_n to_o have_v a_o office_n convey_v to_o he_o viz._n ministerial_o by_o such_o as_o be_v inferior_a to_o he_o as_o the_o king_n by_o some_o of_o his_o subject_n the_o archbishop_n by_o bishop_n the_o officer_n of_o a_o church_n in_o our_o brethren_n way_n by_o the_o people_n who_o i_o hope_v they_o will_v allow_v to_o be_v inferior_a to_o their_o officer_n at_o lest_o they_o profess_v that_o they_o do_v so_o for_o the_o last_o clause_n i_o say_v two_o thing_n 1._o that_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v use_v for_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o other_o place_n beside_o this_o act_v 13._o 7._o god_n bring_v israel_n out_o of_o egypt_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d with_o i._n e._n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d by_o a_o high_a hand_n as_o it_o be_v elsewhere_o phrased_a so_o act_v 19_o 27._o they_o tell_v what_o thing_n god_n have_v do_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d with_o they_o i._n e._n by_o they_o especial_o see_v the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d here_o be_v expound_v by_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o the_o other_o place_n which_o our_o brethren_n suppose_v to_o be_v parallel_n that_o put_v it_o out_o of_o doubt_n and_o the_o reason_n wherefore_o the_o apostle_n rather_o use_v the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d then_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v only_o for_o better_a sound_a sake_n which_o the_o apostle_n be_v not_o neglective_a of_o it_o have_v be_v unhandsome_a to_o have_v say_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o therefore_o he_o elegant_o vary_v the_o word_n and_o put_v in_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o stead_n of_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d but_o if_o you_o will_v needs_o have_v the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d to_o be_v take_v in_o another_o sense_n then_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d viz._n for_o with_o and_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d to_o be_v understand_v of_o a_o gift_n then_o why_o may_v we_o not_o acquiesce_v in_o this_o sense_n which_o will_v both_o full_o take_v off_o all_o your_o objection_n and_o yet_o no_o way_n praejudice_v our_o cause_n neglect_v not_o the_o gift_n etc._n etc._n with_o the_o lay_n on_o of_o hand_n i_o e._n neglect_v not_o the_o gift_n etc._n etc._n nor_o the_o lay_n on_o of_o hand_n use_v in_o ordination_n whereby_o thou_o be_v solemn_o set_v apart_o for_o and_o oblige_v to_o the_o discharge_n of_o thy_o ministerial_a gift_n and_o office_n do_v not_o slight_a forget_v disregard_n that_o injunction_n etc._n etc._n and_o this_o sense_n i_o be_o sure_a the_o greek_a will_v bear_v very_o well_o and_o the_o english_a do_v not_o exclude_v it_o again_o if_o this_o satisfy_v not_o it_o may_v be_v further_o add_v that_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d may_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o gift_n in_o 2_o tim._n 1._o 6._o forasmuch_o as_o the_o power_n of_o confer_v such_o gift_n be_v the_o privilege_n of_o apostle_n and_o extraordinary_a officer_n and_o the_o same_o word_n 1_o tim._n 4._o 14._o may_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o office_n the_o conveyance_n of_o which_o do_v fall_v within_o the_o verge_n of_o the_o ordinary_a presbyter_n and_o if_o you_o take_v it_o thus_o than_o you_o may_v ground_o suppose_v that_o the_o lay_v on_o of_o paul_n hand_n be_v not_o do_v at_o the_o same_o time_n nor_o to_o the_o same_o end_n with_o the_o lay_n on_o of_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o presbytery_n but_o that_o this_o latter_a do_v convey_v the_o office_n at_o one_o time_n which_o be_v say_v most_o proper_o to_o be_v neglect_v 1_o tim._n 4._o 14._o and_o the_o former_a do_v convey_v a_o gift_n at_o another_o time_n which_o he_o be_v call_v upon_o to_o stir_v up_o 2_o tim._n 1._o 6._o and_o this_o full_o take_v off_o all_o the_o difficulty_n nor_o can_v any_o wonder_n at_o the_o different_a sense_n of_o the_o same_o word_n and_o same_o phrase_n for_o that_o be_v so_o common_a a_o thing_n not_o only_o in_o divers_a epistle_n but_o in_o the_o same_o epistle_n yea_o the_o same_o chapter_n yea_o the_o same_o verse_n sometime_o that_o one_o and_o the_o same_o word_n or_o phrase_n be_v different_o to_o be_v understand_v that_o none_o can_v just_o stumble_v at_o it_o here_o but_o last_o it_o must_v be_v remember_v that_o if_o this_o place_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v in_o their_o sense_n and_o do_v not_o contribute_v any_o thing_n to_o our_o cause_n the_o truth_n we_o assert_v do_v not_o so_o depend_v upon_o this_o place_n that_o it_o must_v needs_o fall_v if_o this_o place_n do_v not_o uphold_v it_o forasmuch_o as_o it_o be_v found_v upon_o divers_a other_o important_a place_n as_o have_v be_v show_v the_o assembly_n argue_v further_o the_o person_n ordain_v be_v apostle_n prophet_n evangelist_n and_o presbyter_n who_o it_o be_v not_o likely_a that_o christ_n will_v appoint_v to_o convey_v only_o the_o adjunct_n of_o the_o ministerial_a call_n and_o leave_v the_o great_a work_n of_o convey_v the_o office-power_n to_o the_o people_n to_o this_o they_o say_v two_o thing_n 1._o in_o stead_n of_o give_v a_o answer_n they_o offer_v a_o argument_n that_o because_o one_o relate_v give_v be_v to_o another_o therefore_o the_o people_n must_v needs_o give_v be_v to_o the_o minister_n reply_n this_o be_v a_o mere_a fallacy_n relata_fw-la be_v considerable_a two_o way_n as_o i_o may_v say_v in_o esse_fw-la constituendo_fw-la &_o in_o esse_fw-la constitute_v either_o as_o they_o be_v to_o be_v constitute_v or_o as_o they_o be_v complete_o constitute_v it_o be_v true_a relata_fw-la consider_v in_o esse_fw-la constitute_v do_v give_v be_v one_o to_o another_o the_o father_n be_v not_o a_o father_n unless_o he_o have_v a_o son_n but_o then_o consider_v relation_n in_o esse_fw-la constituendo_fw-la as_o they_o be_v to_o be_v constitute_v and_o so_o somewhat_o else_o give_v be_v to_o they_o when_o they_o be_v relata_fw-la the_o one_o give_v be_v to_o the_o other_o but_o there_o must_v be_v some_o other_o person_n or_o thing_n which_o put_v they_o into_o that_o relation_n and_o it_o be_v that_o which_o we_o speak_v off_o for_o instance_n the_o husband_n give_v be_v to_o the_o wife_n and_o the_o wife_n to_o the_o husband_n but_o there_o be_v something_o else_o which_o legal_o constitute_v they_o in_o that_o relation_n to_o wit_v the_o act_n of_o the_o justice_n or_o the_o minister_n a_o vice_n chancellor_n be_v the_o correlate_n of_o the_o university_n yet_o the_o chancellor_n act_n do_v constitute_v he_o in_o the_o relation_n and_o give_v he_o the_o essence_n of_o his_o call_n 2._o they_o say_v though_o ordination_n be_v but_o a_o adjunct_n yet_o it_o consist_v chief_o if_o not_o only_o in_o prayer_n christ_n may_v employ_v the_o elder_n in_o add_v such_o a_o adjunct_n reply_n but_o what_o sober_a man_n can_v imagine_v that_o if_o this_o be_v all_o the_o apostle_n shall_v take_v so_o many_o journey_n about_o ordination_n and_o shall_v leave_v titus_n who_o can_v ill_o be_v spare_v in_o crete_n to_o ordain_v elder_n what_o will_v he_o leave_v he_o only_o to_o pray_v for_o a_o blessing_n upon_o person_n to_o be_v constitute_v by_o other_o it_o be_v strange_a he_o shall_v leave_v he_o to_o a_o work_n no_o way_n peculiar_a to_o his_o office_n and_o a_o work_n which_o a_o brother_n may_v perform_v as_o effectual_o as_o a_o officer_n and_o this_o shall_v suffice_v for_o the_o second_o question_n chap._n xv._n the_o three_o and_o last_o question_n be_v this_o whether_o ordination_n may_v be_v do_v by_o the_o people_n wherein_o i_o shall_v need_v to_o say_v little_a because_o indeed_o