can be imagined justly to binder us from a ready complyance to this method of Service appointed by them and so live in unity Reply Prayer and Humility are indeed the necessarie means of Peace But if you will let us pray for peace in no words but what are in the Common-Prayer-book their brevitie and unaptness and the customariness that will take off the edge of fervour with humane nature will not give leave or help sufficient to our souls to work towards God upon this Subject with that enlargedness copiousness and freedom as is necessary to due fervour A brief transient touch and away is not enough to warm the heart arigne and cold Prayers are like to have a cold return and therefore even for Peace sake let us pray more copiously and heartily than the Common-Prayer-book will help us to do And whether this be that cause or whether it be that the Common-Prayer-book hath never a Prayer for it self we find that its Prayers prevail not to reconcile many sober serious persons to it that live in faithfull fervent Prayer 2. And for Humility we humbly conceive it would most effectually heal us and by causing the Pastors of the Church to know that they are not to rule the flocks as Lords but as ensamples not by constraint but willingly 1 Pet. 5. 2 3. and it would cause them not to think so highly of themselves and so meanly of their Brethren as to judge no words fit to be used to God in the publick Worship but what they prescribe and put into our mouths and that other men are generally unable to speak sensibly or suitably unless they tell us what to say or that all others are unfit to be trusted with the expressing of their own desires Humilitie would perswade the Pastors of the Church at least to undertake no more than the Apostles did and no more to obtrude or impose their own words upon all others in the publick Worship If they found any unfit to be trusted with the expression of their mindes in publick Prayer they would do what they could to get meeter men in their places and till then they would restrain and help such as need it and not upon that pretence as much restrain all the ablest Ministers as if the whole Church were to be nominated measured or used according to the quality of the most unworthy And it is also true that humility in private persons and inferiors would do much to our peace by keeping them in due submission and obedience and keeping them from all contentions and divisions which proceed from self-conceitedness and pride But yet 1. The humblest surest Subjects may stumble upon the scruple whether Bishops differ not from Presbyters only in degree and not in order or office it being a Controversie and no resolved point of faith even amongst the Papists whose faith is too extensive and favour too Ecclesiastical ambition too great and consequently they may doubt whether men in the same order do by divine appointment owe obedience unto those that gradually go before them 2. And they may scruple whether such making themselves the Governours of their Brethren make not themselves indeed of a different order or office and so incroach not on the authority of Christ who only maketh Officers purely Ecclesiastical and whether it be no disloyalty to Christ to own such Officers 3. And among those Divines that are for a threefold Episcopacy besides that of Presbyters who are Episcopi Gregis viz. General unfixed Bishops like the Evangelists or Apostles in their measure and the fixed Bishops of Parochial Churches that have Presbyters to assist them to whom they do preside and also the Presidents of larger Synods yet is it a matter of very great doubt whether a fixed Diocesan being the Pastor of many hundred Churches having none under him that hath the power of Jurisdiction or Ordination be indeed a Governour of Christs appointment or approbation and whether Christ will give us any more thanks for owning them as such than the King will give us for owning an Usurper Humility alone will not seem to subject these men to such a Government 4. And though their coercive Magistratical power be easily submitted to as being from the King how unfit Subjects soever Church men are of such a power yet he that knoweth his Superiours best doth honour God more and supposeth God more infallible than man and will feel himself most indispensibly bound by Gods commands and bound not to obey man against the Lord. And whereas there is much sayd against the peoples taking on them to judge of the lawfulness of things commanded them by Superiors we add 5. That humble men may believe that their Superiors are fallible that it is no impossibility to command things that God forbids that in such Cases if we have sufficient means to discern the sinfulness of such Commands we must make use of them and must obey God rather than men that when the Apostles acted according to such a Resolution Acts 4. 19. and Daniel and the three Witnesses Dan. 6. and 3. they all exercised a judgement of Discerning upon the matter of their Superiors commands that not to do so at all is to make Subjects Bruits and so no Subjects because not rational free Agents or to make all Governors to be gods And lastly That it will not save us from Hell nor justifie us at Judgement for sinning against God to say that Superiors commanded us nor will it prove all the Martyrs to be sinners and condemned because they judged of their Superiors commands and disobeyed them All which we say to shew the insufficiency of the Remedy hereby you propounded the humility of Inferiors unless you will also add your help without obedience there is no order or lasting concord to be expected And by abasing the eternal God so far as to set him and his Laws below a Creature under pretence of obedience to the Creature no good can be expected because no peace with Heaven without which peace with men is but a Confederacy hastning each party to Destruction And therefore absolute obedience must be given only to God the absolute Sovereign In all this we suppose that we are all agreed And therefore 6. and lastly We must say that the way to make us think the Bishops to be so wise and careful Guides and Fathers to us is not for them to seem wiser than the Apostles and make those things of standing necessity to the Churches unity which the Apostles never made so nor to forbid all to preach the Gospel or to hold Communion with the Church that dare not conform to things unnecessary Love and tenderness are not used to express themselves by hurting and destroying men for nothing And to silence and reject from Church Communion for a Ceremony and in the mean time to perswade men that they love them is but to stab or famish all the sick persons in the Hospital or Family whose stomachs cannot take
THE GRAND DEBATE BETWEEN The most Reverend the BISHOPS AND The PRESBYTERIAN Divines Appointed by His Sacred MAJESTY AS COMMISSIONERS FOR The Review and Alteration OF THE BOOK OF COMMON PRAYER c. BEING An Exact Account of their whole Proceedings The most perfect Copy London Printed 1661. A Copy of His Majesties Commission CHARLES the second by the Grace of God King of England Scotland France Ireland Defender of the Faith c. To our Trusty and wel-beloved the most Reverend Father in God Accepted Arch-bishop of York The right reverend Fathers in God Gilbert Bishop of London John Bishop of Durham John Bishop of Rochester Humphrey Bishop of Sarum George Bishop of Worcester Robert Bishop of Lincoln Benjamin Bishop of Peterborough Brian Bishop of Chester Richard Bishop of Carlile John Bishop of Exeter Edward Bishop of Norwich to our trusty and wel-beloved the Reverend Anthony Tuckney D. D. John Conant D. D. William Spurstow D. D. John Wallis D. D. Thomas Manton D. D. Edmund Calamy B. D. Richard Baxter Clerke Arthur Juckson Tho. Case Samuel Clarke Matthew Newcomen Clerkes and to our trusty and wel-beloved Dr. Earle Dean of Westminster Peter Heylin D. D. Joh. Hacket D. D. Joh. Berwick D. D. Peter Gunning D. D. John Pearson D. D. Tho. Pierce D. D. Anthony Sparrow Herbert Thorndike D. D. Thomas Horton D. D. Thomas Jacomb D. D. William Bate John Rawlinson William Cooper Clerkes D. John Light foot D. John Collings D. Benjamin Woodbridg and VVilliam Drake Clerke Greeting Whereas by our Declaration of the 25 of October last concerning Ecclesiasticall affaires we did amongst other things express our esteem of the Liturgy of the Church of England contained in the Book of Common prayer and yet since we find exceptions made against several things therein we did by our said Declaration declare we would appoint an equal number of learned Divines of both perswasions to review the same we therefore in accomplishment of our said wil and intent and of our continued and constant care and study for the peace and unity of the Churches within our dominions for removal of all exceptions and differences and the occasions of such differences and exceptions from among our good subjects for or concerning the said Book of Common prayer or any thing therein contained doe by these our Letters patents require authorize constitute and appoint you the said c. to advise upon and review the said Book of Common prayer comparing the same with the most ancient Liturgies which have been used in the Church in the primitive and purest times And to that end to assemble and meet together from time to time and at such time within the space of foure Calendar moneths now next ensuing in the Masters lodging in the Savoy in the Strand in the County of Middlesex or in such other place or places as to you shall be thought fit and convenient to take into your serious and grave considerations the several directions and rules forms of prayer and things in the said Book of Common prayer contained and to advise consult upon and about the same and the several objections and exceptions which shall now be raised against the same and if occasion be to make such reasonable and necessary alterations corrections and amendments therein as by and between you the said Arch-bishop Bishops Doctors and Persons hereby required and authorized to meet and advise as aforesaid shall be agreed upon to be needfull and expedient for the giving satisfaction to tender consciences and the restoring and continuance of peace and unity in the Churches under our protection and Government but avoyding as much as may be all unnecessary abreviations of the Forms and Liturgy wherewith the people are altogether acquainted and have so long received in the Church of England And our will and pleasure is that when you the said Arch-bishop Bishops Doctours and persons authorized and appointed by these our Letters patents to meet advise and consult upon and about the premises as aforesaid shall have drawn your consultations to any resolution and determination which you shall agree upon as needfull or expedient to be done for the altering diminishing or inlarging the said Book of Common prayer or any part thereof that then forthwith you certifie and present to us in writing under your severall hands the matters and things whereupon you shall so determine for our approbation and to the end the same or so much thereof as shall be approved by us may be established and for as much as the said Archbishop Bishops have severall great Charges to attend which we would not dispense with or that the same should be neglected upon any great occasion whatsoever and some of them being of great age and infirmities may not be able constantly to attend the execution of the service and authority hereby given and required by us in the meeting and consultation aforesaid We will therefore and hereby require you the said Dr. Earles c. to supply the place and places of such of the Arch-bishop and Bishops other then the said Edward Bishop of Norwich as shall by age sickness infirmity or other occasion be hindred from attending the said meeting or consultation that is to say that one of you the said Dr. Earles c. shall from time to time supply the place of each one of them the said Arch-bishop and Bishops other then the said Edward Bishop of Norwich which shall happen to be hindred or to be absent from the said meetings or consultations and shall and may advise consult and determine and also certifie and execute all and singular the powers and authorities before mentioned in and about the premises as fully and absolutely as such Arch-bishop and Bishops which shal so happen to be absent should or might doe by vertue of these our Letters patents or any thing herein contained in case he or they were personally present And whereas in regard of the distance of some the infirmity of others the multitude of constant imployment and other incidental impediments some of you the said Edward Bishop of Norwich c. may be hindred from the constant attendance in the execution of the service aforesaid We therefore wil and doe hereby require and authorize you the said Thomas Horton c. to supply the place or places of such the Commissioners last before mentioned as shal by the means aforesaid or any other occasion be hindred from the said meeting and consultations that one of you the said Thomas Horton c. shal from time to time supply the places of each one of the said Commissioners last mentioned which shal happen to be hindered or absent from the said meeting and consultations and shal and may advise consult and determine and also certifie and execute all and singular the powers and authorities before mentioned in and about the premises as fully and absolutely as such of the said last mentioned Commissioners which shall so happen to be absent should
we desire no other rule to decide the Controversie by As to your Citation 1 Socrat. there tells us of the alternate singing of the Aruians in the reproach of the Orthodox and that Chrysostome not a Synod compiled Hymnes to be sung in opposition to them in the streets which came in the end to a Tumult and Bloodshed And hereupon he tells us of the original of alternate singing viz. a pretended vision of Ignatius that heard Angels sing in that order And what is all this to alternate reading and praying or to a Divine Institution when here is no mention of reading or praying but of singing Hymnes And that not upon pretence of Apostolical Tradition but a vision of uncertain credit Theodor. also speaketh only of singing Psalmes alternately and not a word of reading or praying so And he fetcheth that way of singing also as Socrat. doth but from the Church at Antioch and not from any pretended doctrine or practise of the Apostles And neither of them speaks a word of the necessitie of it or of forcing any to it so that all these your Citations speaking not a word so much as of the very Subjects in question are marvellously impertinent The words their Worship seem to intimate that singing Psalms is part of our Worship and not of yours we hope you disown it not for our parts we are not ashamed of it your distinction between Hopkin's and David's Psalms as if the Meetre allowed by Authority to be sung in Churches made them to be no more David's Psalms seemeth to us a very hard saying If it be because it is a Translation then the Prose should be none of David's Psalms neither nor any Translation be the Scripture If it be because it is in Meetre then the exactest Translation in Meetre should be none of the Scripture If because it 's done imperfectly then the old Translation of the Bible used by the Common-Prayer-book should not be Scripture As to your reason for the supposed priority 1. Scripture examples telling us that the People had more part in the Psalms than in the Prayers or Readings satisfie us that God and his Church then saw a disparity of Reason 2. Common observation tells us that there is more Order and less hindrance of Edification in the Peoples singing than in their Reading and Praying together vocally It is desired that nothing should be in the Liturgy which so much us seems to countenance the observation of Lent as a religious Fast and this as an expedient to Peace which is in effect to desire that this our Church may be contentious for Peace sake and to divide from the Church Catholick that we may live at unity among our selves For Saint Paul reckons them amongst the lovers of Contention who shall oppose themselves against the Custome of the Churches of God that the religious observation of Lent was a Custome of the Churches of God appeares by the Testimonies following Chrysost Ser. 11. in Heb. 10. Cyrill Catec myst 5. St. August Ep. 119. ut 40. dies ante Pascha observetur Ecclesiae consuetudo roboravit and St. Hierom ad Marcell saies it was secundum traditionem Apostolorum This Demand then tends not to Peace but Dissention The fasting Forty daies may be in imitation of our Saviour for all that is here said to the contrary for though we cannot arrive to his perfection abstaining wholly from meat so long yet we may fast forty daies together either Cornelius his Fast till three of the Clock afternoon or Saint Peter 's fast till noon or at least Daniel 's fast abstaining from Meats and Drinks of delight and thus far imitate our Lord. Reply If we had said that the Church is contentious if it adore God in kneeling on the Lords daies or use not the White Garment Milk and Honey after baptism which had more pretence of Apostolical tradition and were generally used more anciently than Lent would you not have thought we wronged the Church if the purer times of the Church have one Custome and later times a contrary which must we follow or must we necessarily be contentious for not following both or rather may we not by the example of the Church that changeth them be allowed to take such things to be matters of Liberty and not necessity If we must needs conform to the Custome of other Churches in such things or be contentious it is either because God hath so commanded or because he hath given those Churches Authority to command it If the former then what Churches or what Ages must we conforme to If all must concurr to be our patterne it will be hard for us to be acquainted with them so far as to know of such Concurrences And in our Case we know that many do it not If it must be the most we would know where God commandeth us to imitate the greater number though the worse or hath secured us that they shall not be the worst or why we are not tied rather to imitate the purer Ages than the more corrupt If it be said that the Church hath Authority to command us we desire to know what Church that is and where to be found and heard that may command England and all the Churches of his Majesty's Dominions If it be said to be a General Council 1. No General Council can pretend to more Authority than that of Nice whose 20th Canon back'd with Tradition and common pratice now bindes not us and was laid by without any Repeal by following Councils 2. We know of no such things as General Councils at least that have bound us to the religious observation of Lent The Bishops of one Empire could not make a General Council 3. Nor do we know of any such power that they have ever the universal Church there being no visible head of it or Governours to make universal Laws but Christ as Rogers on the 20. Article fore-cited shews our 21. Article saith that General Councils may not be gathered together without the Commandment and Will of Princes and doubtless all the Heathen and Mahomitans and all the contending Christian Princes will never agree together nor never did to let all their Christian Subjects concurre to hold a General Council It saith also and when they be gathered together forasmuch as they be an Assembly of men whereof all be not governed with the Spirit and Word of God they may erre and sometimes have erred even in things pertaining unto God therefore things ordained by them as necessary to Salvation have neither strength nor authority unlesse it may be declared that they be taken out of the Holy Scriptures And if they may erre in things pertaining unto God and ordained by them as necessary to Salvation much more in lesser things And are we contentious if we erre not with them Our 39. Article determineth this Controversie saying It is not necessary that Traditions and Ceremonies be in all places one or utterly like for at all times they have
note of distinction or notice given to the people that they are not Canonical Scripture they being also bound with our Bibles is such a temptation to the vulgar to take them for Gods Word as doth much prevail and is like to do so still And when Papists second it with their confident affirmations that the Apocriphal Bookes are Canonical well refelled by one of you the R. Reverend Bishop of Durham we should not needlesly help on their successe If you cite the Apocripha as you do other humane writings or read them as Homilies when and where there is reason to read such we speak not against it to say that the people are secured by the Churches calling them Apocripha is of no force till experience be proved to be dis-regardable and till you have proved that the Ministers is to tell the people at the reading of every such Chapter that it is but Apocriphal and that the people all understand Greek so well as to know what Apocripha signifieth The more sacred and honourable are these Dictates of the holy Ghost recorded in Scripture the greater is the sin by reading the Apocripha without sufficient distinction to make the people believe that the writings of man are the Revelation and Laws of God And also we speak against the reading of the Apocripha as it excludeth much of the Canonical Scriptures and taketh in such Books in their stead as are commonly reputed fabulous By this much you may see how you lost your Answer by mistaking us and how much you will sin against God and the Church by denying our desire That the Minister should not read the Communion Service at the Communion Table is not reasonable to demand since all the Primitive Church used it and if we do not observe that golden Rule of the venerable Council of Nice Let antient customes prevail till reason plainly requires the contrary We shall give offence to sober Christians by a causelesse departure from Catholick usage and a great advantage to enemies of our Church than our Brethren I hope would willingly grant The Priest standing at the Communion Table seemeth to give us an invitation to the holy Sacrament and minds us of our duty viz. To receive the holy Communion some at least every Sunday and though we neglect our duty it is fit the Church should keep her standing Repl. We doubt not but one place in it self is as lawful as another but when you make such differences as have misleading intimations we desire it may be forborn That all the Primitive Church used when there was no Communion in the Sacrament to say Service at the Communion Table is a crude assertion that must have better proof before we take it for convincing and it is not probable because they had a Communion every Lords day And if this be not your meaning you say nothing to the purpose To prove that they used it when there was none And you your selves devise many things more universally practised than this can at all be fairly pretended to have been The Council of Nice gives no such golden Rule as you mention A Rule is a general applyable to particular Cases the Council only speaks of one particular Let the antient Custom continue in Aegypt Lybia and Pentapolis that the Bishop of Alexandria have the power of them all The Council here confirmeth this particular Custom but doth not determine in general of the Authority of Custom That this should be called a Catholic usage shews us how partially the word Catholick is sometimes taken And that this much cannot be granted as least we advantage the enemies of the Church doth make us wonder whom you take for its enemies and what is that advantage which this will give them But we thank you that here we find our selves called Brethren when before we are not so much as spoken to but your speech is directed to some other we know not whom concerning us your reason is that which is our reason to the contrary you say The Priest standing at the Communion Table seems to give us an Invitation to the holy Communion c. what when there is no Sacrament by himself or us intended no warning of any given no Bread and Wine prepared Be not deceived God is not mocked Therefore we desire that there may be no such service at the Table when no Communion is intended because we would not have such grosse dissimulation used in so holy things as thereby to seem as you say to invite Guests when the Feast is not prepared and if they came we would turn them empty away Indeed if it were to be a private Mass and the Priest were to receive alone for want of Company and it were really desired that the people should come it were another matter Moreover there is no Rubrick requiring this service at the Table It is not reasonable that the word Minister should be only used in the Liturgy for since some parts of the Liturgy may be performed by a Deacon others by none under the Order of a Priest viz. Absolution Consecration it is fit that some such word as Priest should be used for those Offices and not Minister which signifies at large every one that ministers in that holy Office of what Order soever he be The word Curate signifying properly all those who are trusted by the Bishops with Cure of Souls as antiently it signified is a very fit word to be used and can offend no sober person The word Sunday is antient Just Mart. Ap. 2. And therefore not to be left off Repl. The word Minister may well be used in stead of Priest and Curates though the word Deacon for necessary distinction stand yet we doubt not but Priest as it is but the English of Presbyter is lawful But it is from the common danger of mistake and abuse that we argue That all Pastors else are but the Bishops Curates is a Doctrine that declares the heavy charge and account of the Bishops and tends much to the ease of the Presbyters minds if it could be proved If by Curates you mean such as have not directly by divine Obligation the Cure of Souls but only by the Bishops Delegation But if the Office of a Presbyter be not of divine Right and so if they be not the Curates of Christ and Pastors of the Church none are And for the antient use of it we find not that it was so from the beginning And as there 's difference between the antient Bishops of one single Church and a Diocesan that hath many hundred so is there between their Curates But why will you not yield so much as to change the word Sunday into the Lords Day when you know that the latter is the name used by the Holy Ghost in Scripture and commonly by the antient Writers of the Church and more becoming Christians Just Mart. speaking to Infidels tells how they called the Day and not how Christians called it All he saith is