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A30189 An answer to two treatises of Mr. Iohn Can, the leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam the former called, A necessitie of separation from the Church of England, proved by the Nonconformists principles : the other, A stay against straying : wherein in opposition to M. Iohn Robinson, he undertakes to prove the unlawfulnesse of hearing the ministers of the Church of England ... / by the late learned, laborious and faithfull servant of Jesus Christ, John Ball. Ball, John, 1585-1640.; Ashe, Simeon, d. 1662. 1642 (1642) Wing B558; ESTC R3127 281,779 264

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to_o say_v out_o of_o the_o nonconformist_n against_o our_o ministry_n in_o respect_n of_o their_o order_n and_o degree_n section_n 6._o can._n necess_n of_o separation_n pag._n 37._o if_o the_o call_n and_o office_n of_o their_o bishop_n be_v as_o the_o nonconformist_n say_v it_o be_v of_o the_o earth_n false_a devilish_a antichristian_a etc._n etc._n than_o it_o follow_v that_o the_o call_n and_o office_n of_o the_o whole_a ministry_n must_v necessary_o be_v of_o the_o same_o nature_n quality_n and_o condition_n to_o wit_n of_o the_o earth_n false_a devilish_a and_o antichristian_a etc._n etc._n which_o be_v whole_o derive_v from_o it_o which_o receive_v i_o say_v and_o take_v it_o life_n and_o be_v of_o it_o only_o and_o no_o where_o else_o for_o if_o their_o bishop_n have_v not_o a_o right_a power_n in_o themselves_o then_o can_v they_o not_o transfer_v it_o to_o another_o as_o the_o law_n say_v nemo_fw-la potest_fw-la plus_fw-la juris_fw-la transfer_v in_o ahum_o 79._o regul_n juris_fw-la 79._o quam_fw-la sibi_fw-la competere_fw-la dignoscatur_fw-la no_o man_n can_v give_v more_o to_o another_o than_o he_o have_v himself_o if_o corah_n dathan_n and_o abitam_fw-la when_o they_o usurp_v the_o priesthood_n and_o government_n of_o the_o church_n shall_v by_o that_o false_a power_n which_o they_o assume_v have_v ordain_v some_o of_o the_o people_n unto_o the_o priest_n office_n no_o doubt_n all_o the_o israelite_n which_o fear_v god_n will_v have_v judge_v their_o place_n and_o stand_v unlawful_a because_o they_o which_o make_v they_o have_v no_o commission_n from_o god_n so_o to_o do_v the_o case_n of_o their_o ministry_n be_v just_a so_o answer_n if_o some_o thing_n of_o man_n be_v mix_v with_o that_o which_o be_v of_o god_n as_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n with_o humane_a rite_n and_o humane_a pomp_n and_o glory_n with_o the_o ministry_n that_o be_v from_o above_o a_o prudent_a christian_a must_v separate_v one_o from_o another_o and_o not_o cast_v away_o what_o 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a_fw-la malo_fw-la est_fw-la facimus_fw-la nihilt_n calvinus_n autem_fw-la eo_fw-la in_o lo●o_fw-la agit_fw-fr de_fw-fr rutibus_fw-la adventitiis_fw-la solum_fw-la non_fw-la de_fw-la ordinatione_fw-la tota_fw-la simpliciter_fw-la imposition_n of_o hand_n whereby_o the_o extraordinary_a gift_n of_o the_o spirit_n be_v give_v unto_o believer_n be_v peculiar_a to_o the_o apostle_n act._n 8.14_o 15.19.6_o &_o vide_fw-la beza_n annot_fw-mi major_a in_o act._n 19_o synop_n purior_fw-la theol._n disput_fw-la 24._o §._o 32.33_o jus_fw-la pastor_n legend_n est_fw-la penes_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la ac_fw-la ●o●inde_fw-la p●bi_fw-la convenit_fw-la cum_fw-la presbyteris_fw-la ius_n eos_fw-la ordinandi_fw-la solis_fw-la presbyteris_fw-la est_fw-la propri●_n can._n neces_fw-la of_o sep_v c._n 1._o p._n 8._o jun._n animad_fw-la in_o bell._n cont_n 5._o l._n 1._o ca._n 3._o not_o 9_o 10._o bell._n de_fw-fr cler._n l._n 1._o ca._n 3._o §._o accedat_fw-la if_o a_o unmeet_a minister_n be_v set_v in_o 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and_o a_o true_a ministry_n be_v essential_a to_o the_o true_a church_n consist_v of_o all_o it_o part_n and_o partaker_n of_o the_o ordinance_n of_o grace_n something_o of_o the_o se_fw-mi remain_v in_o every_o complete_a society_n 16.17_o platima_n in_o vita_fw-la benedict_n 2._o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n the_o people_n which_o be_v layman_n choose_v their_o pastor_n and_o for_o a_o long_a time_n the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n themselves_o be_v not_o choose_v without_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o prince_n etc._n etc._n and_o the_o emperor_n be_v possess_v of_o it_o as_o their_o right_n ever_o since_o the_o day_n of_o ch●rles_n bilson_n christ_n subject_a part_n 3._o pag._n 168._o sol._n jarchi_n 2_o mac._n 4.7_o 8_o 26_o 27._o joseph_n antiq_fw-la lib._n 20._o cap._n 18._o &_o l._n 18._o cap._n 4._o ctrnel_n bertram_n de_fw-fr pol._n judaic._n cap._n 18._o council_n laed_z c._n cap._n 13._o non_fw-fr est_fw-fr permittendum_fw-la turbis_fw-la etc._n etc._n jun._n animadv_o in_o bl●_n contr_n 5._o lib._n 1._o ca_fw-mi 7_o not_o 16.17_o which_o have_v any_o thing_n of_o the_o church_n and_o for_o
substance_n and_o essence_n they_o be_v true_a in_o every_o true_a and_o lawful_a complete_a society_n but_o as_o the_o profession_n of_o the_o truth_n may_v be_v find_v in_o all_o fundamental_a point_n though_o mix_v with_o many_o error_n so_o for_o truth_n and_o existence_n the_o ministry_n may_v be_v lawful_a though_o in_o many_o particular_n delinquent_a and_o deficient_a in_o the_o true_a church_n then_o there_o be_v a_o true_a ministry_n but_o the_o true_a church_n have_v continue_v there_o by_o the_o blessing_n of_o god_n where_o the_o election_n of_o minister_n have_v be_v give_v away_o by_o the_o people_n or_o take_v from_o they_o in_o late_a time_n the_o high_a priesthood_n be_v buy_v and_o sell_v for_o money_n and_o sometime_o it_o be_v make_v annual_a that_o every_o year_n new_a priest_n be_v create_v as_o those_o governor_n who_o king_n change_v every_o year_n that_o as_o every_o man_n will_v lay_v out_o more_o or_o less_o money_n he_o shall_v obtain_v or_o lose_v the_o priesthood_n which_o may_v be_v see_v in_o the_o example_n of_o jason_n and_o menelaus_n nevertheless_o so_o long_o as_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n continue_v the_o church_n of_o god_n the_o priesthood_n continue_v also_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n when_o the_o people_n have_v a_o voice_n in_o the_o choice_n of_o their_o teacher_n oftentimes_o there_o be_v faction_n in_o the_o church_n the_o people_n stand_v against_o their_o guide_n and_o the_o guide_n against_o their_o people_n and_o the_o people_n be_v divide_v one_o against_o another_o and_o sometime_o either_o through_o sloth_n or_o for_o peace_n the_o pastor_n leave_v the_o election_n of_o officer_n to_o the_o people_n 135._o ruffin_n lib._n 11._o c._n 10.11_o theod._n hist_o lib._n 4._o ca._n 6._o august_n epist_n 110._o &_o 225._o socrat._v hist_o lib._n 7._o ca._n 34_o 35._o 39_o council_n antioch_n cap._n 18._o sozom._n hist_o l._n 2._o ca._n 18_o 19_o naziatrz_n in_o epit._n patris_fw-la euagr._fw-la l._n 2._o cap._n 5.8_o theodor._n l._n 5._o ca._n 23._o gratian._n do_v 63._o ca._n 11_o 12._o cypr._n l._n 3._o epist_n 14._o &_o 10._o w.b._n the_o church_n plea._n §._o 8._o pag._n 90._o t.c._n repl_a 2._o par_fw-fr 1._o p._n 212._o cypr._n l._n 2._o epist_n 5._o &_o l._n 4._o epist_n 5._o &_o l._n 3._o epist_n 22._o and_o the_o like_a he_o do_v for_o optatus_n satuus_fw-la caesernius_fw-la &_o numidicus_n calv._n inst_z l_o 4._o c._n 4._o §._o 10._o august_n epist_n 223._o theod._n l._n 1._o ca._n 23._o socrat._v hist._n l._n 2._o ca._n 19_o sozom._n l._n 3._o c._n 20._o socrat._v hist._n lib._n 7._o ca._n 28._o w.b._n the_o church_n plea._n §_o 8._o pag._n 80._o centur._n 1._o ca._n 4._o centur._n 6_o 7._o col_fw-fr 591._o centur._n 2._o c._n 7._o p._n 134._o 135._o and_o the_o people_n challenge_v it_o unto_o themselves_o and_o sometime_o again_o they_o take_v it_o from_o their_o people_n and_o challenge_v it_o to_o themselves_o but_o in_o the_o mid_n of_o these_o broil_n he_o be_v account_v a_o true_a minister_n who_o be_v elect_v whether_o by_o the_o guide_n or_o by_o the_o people_n or_o by_o the_o emperor_n so_o he_o teach_v the_o doctrine_n of_o salvation_n true_o and_o if_o this_o be_v not_o admit_v what_o shall_v be_v do_v when_o the_o people_n and_o their_o elder_n be_v divide_v in_o the_o choice_n of_o a_o fit_a officer_n or_o guide_n if_o the_o people_n prevail_v against_o their_o elder_n he_o who_o they_o choose_v be_v no_o minister_n to_o they_o because_o not_o choose_v by_o their_o suffrage_n if_o the_o elder_n against_o the_o people_n he_o who_o they_o approve_v be_v no_o minister_n because_o he_o want_v the_o people_n voice_n and_o if_o the_o people_n dissent_n they_o must_v separate_v and_o excommunicate_a one_o another_o because_o to_o the_o one_o part_n he_o be_v no_o minister_n who_o the_o other_o approve_v though_o cyprian_n teach_v that_o minister_n shall_v be_v choose_v by_o the_o people_n yet_o this_o form_n of_o election_n be_v not_o in_o some_o church_n in_o cyprian_n time_n who_o be_v esteem_v true_a church_n and_o true_a minister_n and_o cyprian_n himself_o appoint_v aurelius_n a_o reader_n without_o advice_n of_o the_o church_n by_o the_o authority_n of_o his_o fellow-minister_n then_o present_a pinianus_n be_v ordain_v of_o the_o people_n elder_a of_o the_o church_n against_o augustine_n mind_n and_o will_n athanasius_n make_v frumentius_n bishop_n and_o send_v he_o to_o the_o indies_n he_o create_v presbyter_n in_o other_o church_n and_o when_o he_o come_v into_o egypt_n as_o many_o as_o he_o know_v addict_v to_o the_o arian_n heresy_n he_o put_v they_o out_o of_o their_o place_n and_o who_o faith_n he_o try_v and_o approve_v to_o they_o he_o commit_v the_o church_n the_o church_n of_o cyzicena_n give_v this_o honour_n to_o atticus_n that_o without_o his_o consent_n it_o can_v not_o choose_v a_o bishop_n you_o will_v not_o deny_v but_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o church_n for_o the_o first_o second_o and_o three_o and_o four_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n be_v true_a and_o may_v be_v join_v withal_o for_o thus_o write_v a_o friend_n of_o you_o and_o as_o it_o be_v suppose_v by_o your_o aid_n it_o be_v affirm_v by_o the_o century_n of_o magdenburg_n that_o from_o christ_n ascension_n unto_o trajan's_n time_n which_o be_v about_o a_o hundred_o year_n every_o particular_a church_n be_v govern_v by_o the_o bishop_n elder_n and_o deacon_n and_o describe_v the_o state_n of_o christian_a church_n from_o trajan's_n reign_n unto_o severus_n that_o be_v from_o the_o year_n of_o christ_n 100_o to_o 195_o thus_o they_o write_v the_o order_n of_o government_n be_v popular_a for_o all_o church_n have_v equal_a power_n of_o teach_v pure_o the_o word_n of_o god_n administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n excommunication_n of_o heretic_n and_o wicked_a person_n lose_v the_o penitent_a the_o election_n and_o ordination_n of_o minister_n and_o the_o deposition_n of_o they_o again_o for_o just_a cause_n and_o even_o unto_o constantine_n time_n the_o primitive_a purity_n of_o church_n government_n be_v not_o yet_o deflower_v with_o the_o dregs_n of_o man_n invention_n 506._o ●ig●em_fw-la in_o apoc._n 12._o pag._n 505._o 506._o neither_o have_v satan_n bring_v in_o prelatical_a pride_n into_o the_o sheepfold_a of_o the_o lord_n but_o pastor_n look_v every_o one_o to_o the_o health_n of_o his_o own_o flock_n and_o a_o little_a after_o he_o cit_v epiphanius_n 90._o ●_o ●_o ibid._n pag._n 90._o hierome_n ambrose_n cyrill_n hilary_n and_o gregory_n nazianzene_n as_o make_v for_o he_o in_o the_o matter_n of_o choose_v minister_n but_o most_o certain_a it_o be_v within_o this_o space_n of_o time_n many_o thing_n be_v do_v in_o the_o election_n and_o ordination_n of_o minister_n which_o be_v direct_o cross_v to_o that_o which_o you_o require_v as_o essential_a in_o his_o call_n 8._o see_v jun._n eccl_n l._n 3._o cap._n 1._o see_v s●crat_n l._n 4._o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 21._o gr●e_v 16_o 17._o etc._n etc._n 35._o gr._n lat_fw-la 29._o &_o ca._n 36._o gr._n ca._n 30._o lat_fw-la sozom._n l._n 6._o ca._n 18.20_o evagr._fw-la p._n 2._o c._n 8._o socr._n hist_o 13._o l._n 4._o c._n 10.33_o &_o theo._n l._n 4._o c._n 6._o ambr._n offic_n l._n 1._o bill_n christian_n sub._n part_n 2._o pag._n 28_o 2._o sozom._n l._n 7._o cap._n 8._o socrat._v h●st_a l._n 5._o ca._n 8._o just_o in_o novel_a inst_z 223._o cap._n 28.9_o council_n to●●●an_n ca._n 2d_o greg._n epist_n l●b_n 40._o ca._n 78._o to_o constantia_n the_o empress_n the_o bishop_n of_o salona_n be_v order_v neither_o ●_o nor_o any_o responsarie_a wit_n thereof_o which_o thing_n be_v never_o attempt_v under_o any_o of_o the_o prince_n your_o predecessor_n etc._n etc._n yet_o i_o obey_v their_o grace_n precept_n do_v from_o my_o heart_n remit_v unto_o the_o say_v maximus_n this_o his_o presumption_n as_o free_o as_o if_o he_o have_v be_v order_v by_o myself_o etc._n etc._n council_n tom_fw-mi 2._o council_n parisien_n can_v 8._o if_o at_o any_o time_n you_o can_v prove_v that_o all_o thing_n be_v observe_v which_o i_o do_v not_o believe_v ambrose_n himself_o be_v choose_v bishop_n when_o he_o be_v only_o catechumenus_fw-la before_o he_o be_v baptize_v so_o that_o he_o be_v constrain_v to_o teach_v that_o which_o himself_o have_v not_o learned_a yesterday_o catechise_v to_o day_n a_o bishop_n the_o election_n in_o all_o thing_n not_o to_o be_v approve_v as_o consonant_a to_o the_o rule_n for_o the_o canon_n be_v strong_a against_o it_o and_o saint_n paul_n seem_v not_o willing_a that_o a_o novice_n shall_v be_v a_o bishop_n but_o never_o think_v or_o esteem_v to_o be_v none_o at_o all_o of_o the_o election_n of_o nectarius_n see_v sozomene_n and_o socrates_n justinian_n ordain_v if_o any_o man_n build_v a_o church_n or_o house_n of_o prayer_n and_o will_v have_v clerk_n
of_o god_n 2._o their_o qualification_n for_o this_o office_n their_o care_n in_o execution_n and_o other_o accessory_n which_o may_v be_v add_v of_o man_n if_o for_o substance_n of_o office_n their_o calling_n be_v of_o god_n we_o be_v bind_v to_o hold_v communion_n with_o they_o though_o in_o the_o qualification_n execution_n and_o other_o adhere_v circumstance_n some_o thing_n be_v amiss_o which_o it_o be_v not_o in_o our_o power_n to_o redress_v this_o our_o saviour_n christ_n have_v express_o teach_v and_o make_v know_v unto_o u●_n both_o by_o his_o doctrine_n and_o example_n as_o have_v be_v show_v already_o hereunto_o this_o one_o thing_n may_v be_v add_v that_o many_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v call_v qualify_v and_o do_v carry_v themselves_o in_o their_o charge_n and_o place_n according_a to_o the_o direction_n of_o jesus_n christ_n the_o chief_a shepherd_n of_o his_o sheep_n and_o other_o for_o substance_n of_o ministry_n be_v pastor_n and_o teacher_n can_n stay_v sect._n 6._o pag_n 79._o if_o to_o hear_v antichristian_a minister_n be_v to_o serve_v god_n in_o and_o by_o a_o ordinance_n 77._o if_o in_o preach_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o gospel_n in_o a_o false_a church_n no_o idolatry_n be_v do_v then_o may_v a_o man_n worship_n god_n in_o a_o way_n of_o his_o own_o devise_v blameless_a id._n §._o 5._o page_n 77._o way_n or_o institution_n devise_v by_o idolater_n and_o with_o idolater_n than_o it_o be_v unlawful_a but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a therefore_o the_o second_o the_o proposition_n be_v undeniable_a by_o the_o treatiser_n own_o confession_n you_o shall_v have_v say_v the_o assumption_n for_o if_o the_o treatiser_n word_n prove_v aught_o they_o must_v be_v apply_v thereunto_o as_o for_o the_o proposition_n they_o speak_v not_o to_o it_o at_o all_o but_o forwardness_n here_o and_o in_o many_o other_o place_n have_v make_v you_o forget_v your_o term_n of_o art_n he_o that_o hear_v the_o minister_n of_o the_o bishop_n send_v and_o of_o the_o parish_n send_v to_o he_o hear_v in_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o scripture_n false_a prophet_n 84._o id_fw-la page_n 81._o such_o as_o hearken_v to_o antichrist_n minister_n do_v therein_o approve_v of_o antichrist_n unlawful_a power_n over_o the_o false_a church_n and_o the_o devil_n donation_n or_o his_o put_n of_o that_o power_n into_o his_o elder_a son●_n h●nd_n id._n §._o 6._o p._n 84._o but_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o hear_v false_a prophet_n the_o major_n be_v prove_v clear_o in_o defence_n of_o our_o twelve_o objection_n the_o minor_a be_v certain_a by_o these_o reason_n 1._o the_o hear_n of_o false_a prophet_n be_v forbid_v in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n etc._n etc._n answer_n you_o busy_a yourself_o to_o weave_v the_o spider_n web_n which_o be_v good_a for_o little_a long_o in_o weave_v but_o soon_o sweep_v down_o our_o minister_n be_v not_o antichristian_a minister_n nor_o false_a prophet_n in_o the_o scripture_n sense_n because_o they_o preach_v the_o whole_a counsel_n of_o god_n in_o all_o point_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o right_o dispense_v the_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n by_o authority_n derive_v from_o jesus_n christ_n the_o lord_n and_o king_n o●_n his_o church_n the_o great_a shepherd_n of_o his_o sheep_n at_o least_o they_o be_v set_v apart_o to_o this_o office_n which_o be_v never_o deem_v antichristian_a in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n but_o if_o we_o take_v these_o word_n antichristian_a minister_n and_o false_a prophet_n in_o your_o sense_n for_o you_o use_v they_o in_o a_o peculiar_a dialect_n than_o it_o be_v not_o only_o lawful_a but_o necessary_a to_o hear_v such_o as_o you_o call_v antichristian_a minister_n for_o it_o be_v command_v in_o the_o word_n and_o acceptable_a service_n unto_o god_n the_o mean_n to_o build_v up_o the_o church_n it_o be_v to_o hold_v communion_n with_o god_n to_o reverence_v his_o name_n to_o lay_v hold_n upon_o christ_n and_o lodge_v he_o in_o our_o bosom_n it_o show_v that_o a_o man_n be_v one_o of_o christ_n sheep_n because_o he_o hear_v his_o voice_n and_o a_o member_n of_o his_o sheepfold_n the_o servant_n of_o the_o most_o high_a god_n it_o manife_v love_n and_o zeal_n to_o god_n and_o be_v ordinary_o bless_v to_o the_o soul_n and_o conscience_n of_o the_o dutiful_a hearer_n and_o in_o that_o which_o you_o allege_v to_o the_o contrary_a you_o misalledge_v scripture_n speak_v evil_a of_o the_o truth_n revile_v the_o heritage_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o grievous_o wound_v your_o own_o conscience_n the_o religion_n profess_v and_o worship_v perform_v in_o our_o assembly_n be_v true_a not_o only_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o object_n but_o of_o nature_n use_n and_o end_n and_o whatsoever_o circumstance_n be_v necessary_o require_v to_o lawful_a worship_n and_o the_o false_a prophet_n mention_v in_o scripture_n be_v of_o one_o sort_n you_o of_o a_o other_o even_o the_o true_a minister_n of_o jesus_n christ_n but_o let_v we_o turn_v over_o to_o the_o twelfth_n objection_n to_o hear_v the_o clear_a proof_n of_o that_o which_o here_o you_o affirm_v for_o thither_o you_o send_v we_o 117._o can_n stay_v §._o 12._o p._n 116_o 117._o the_o treatiser_n as_o you_o call_v he_o propound_v this_o objection_n of_o you_o that_o the_o scripture_n of_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n warn_v god_n people_n of_o false_a prophet_n which_o the_o minister_n of_o that_o church_n be_v have_v a_o unlawful_a call_n make_v answer_v 1_o by_o deny_v that_o the_o scripture_n warn_v man_n simple_o not_o to_o hear_v false_a prophet_n i.e._n any_o false_a prophet_n whatsoever_o and_o then_o propound_v a_o distinction_n of_o false_a prophet_n that_o some_o false_a prophet_n be_v in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o these_o may_v be_v hear_v as_o they_o have_v place_n in_o the_o church_n till_o they_o be_v orderly_o repress_v or_o at_o least_o discover_v other_o be_v not_o in_o the_o church_n but_o simple_o without_o and_o these_o be_v not_o to_o be_v hear_v this_o be_v the_o plain_a and_o direct_a answer_n of_o the_o treatiser_n as_o every_o man_n may_v perceive_v that_o be_v not_o gross_o ignorant_a or_o wilful_o blind_a but_o see_v how_o you_o jest_n and_o dally_v with_o it_o unconscionable_o when_o you_o have_v nothing_o to_o answer_v 1._o you_o say_v he_o peremptory_o deny_v the_o whole_a objection_n and_o so_o consequent_o affirm_v that_o all_o false_a prophet_n may_v be_v hear_v but_o what_o new_a logic_n be_v this_o whereby_o we_o may_v learn_v to_o draw_v such_o consequence_n in_o former_a time_n it_o have_v be_v think_v reasonable_a to_o deny_v a_o universal_a negative_a or_o affirmative_a proposition_n when_o they_o hold_v not_o true_a in_o all_o individual_n no_o false_a prophet_n be_v to_o be_v hear_v this_o proposition_n may_v just_o be_v beny_v if_o any_o false_a prophet_n may_v be_v hear_v though_o all_o may_v not_o 2_o you_o add_v present_o and_o with_o the_o same_o breath_n he_o unsaith_o what_o he_o say_v before_o but_o this_o be_v a_o palpable_a and_o gross_a calumny_n for_o he_o say_v not_o that_o all_o false_a prophet_n may_v be_v hear_v by_o all_o nor_o deny_v what_o he_o grant_v at_o the_o first_o that_o some_o may_v be_v hear_v but_o plain_o impli_v a_o distinction_n of_o false_a prophet_n which_o i_o can_v hardly_o think_v you_o do_v not_o perceive_v though_o you_o be_v please_v so_o to_o pervert_v his_o word_n if_o there_o appear_v any_o deep_a and_o inextricable_a riddle_n in_o the_o word_n you_o may_v fit_o apply_v to_o yourself_o what_o in_o this_o very_a place_n you_o report_n of_o marcus_n antonius_n soldier_n who_o unaware_o fall_v upon_o a_o herb_n that_o great_o distemper_v their_o head_n you_o tell_v we_o 116._o id_fw-la pag._n 116._o the_o treatiser_n since_o he_o light_v upon_o his_o gourd_n he_o be_v not_o like_o himself_o in_o his_o other_o writing_n and_o i_o can_v easy_o believe_v it_o for_o in_o his_o other_o writing_n for_o separation_n he_o be_v insolent_a censorious_a scornful_a and_o slighty_a in_o this_o mild_a christian_n and_o for_o the_o most_o part_n more_o substantial_a as_o you_o deal_v with_o your_o treatiser_n to_o scorn_v what_o you_o can_v answer_v so_o you_o do_v with_o other_o in_o this_o very_a argument_n and_o that_o much_o more_o absurdlie_o master_n br._n in_o maintenance_n of_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n 7._o the_o unreasonab_n of_o separation_n p._n 2_o 3_o 4_o 7._o as_o it_o be_v establish_v by_o law_n distinguish_v between_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o ministry_n and_o the_o execution_n thereof_o the_o essential_a part_n of_o the_o ministry_n and_o some_o accidental_a circumstance_n adhere_v unto_o they_o by_o man_n for_o substance_n say_v he_o the_o present_a ministry_n of_o our_o church_n assembly_n be_v the_o very_a ministry_n which_o christ_n have_v set_v in_o
certain_o depend_v upon_o the_o bishop_n call_v whole_o and_o no_o man●_n else_o and_o if_o any_o in_o the_o land_n stand_v otherwise_o he_o can_v proper_o be_v say_v to_o be_v a_o minister_n of_o that_o church_n but_o rather_o be_v a_o schismatic_n from_o it_o 57_o id._n p._n 57_o according_a to_o the_o formal_a constitution_n of_o it_o etc._n etc._n the_o most_o free_a parish_n have_v but_o only_o a_o liberty_n to_o admit_v of_o a_o minister_n before_o make_v by_o the_o bishop_n so_o that_o the_o people_n give_v he_o not_o any_o part_n much_o less_o the_o substance_n of_o his_o call_n 61._o id._n p._n 61._o but_o a_o bare_a permission_n only_o to_o exercise_v by_o virtue_n of_o that_o call_n but_o none_o may_v hear_v or_o have_v spiritual_a communion_n with_o such_o a_o ministry_n 213._o id._n p._n 213._o who_o calling_n do_v essential_o depend_v upon_o the_o bishop_n calling_n if_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o prelate_n belong_v not_o to_o any_o ordinary_a assembly_n then_o be_v the_o same_o antichristian_a and_o so_o consequent_o be_v that_o which_o be_v derive_v from_o it_o and_o so_o much_o from_o their_o own_o principle_n we_o have_v former_o prove_v 213._o id._n p._n 213._o the_o ministry_n beget_v by_o the_o prelatesis_n illegitimate_a and_o false_a i_o say_v those_o which_o take_v their_o office_n and_o calling_n from_o they_o be_v bastardly_a minister_n the_o ordination_n of_o priest_n and_o deacon_n by_o the_o prelate_n be_v unlawful_a and_o antichristian_a and_o the_o ministry_n be_v false_a so_o long_o as_o they_o do_v retain_v that_o false_a call_n which_o they_o take_v first_o of_o the_o bishop_n 45._o id._n p._n 45._o they_o of_o the_o pope_n and_o he_o from_o the_o devil_n whosoever_o he_o be_v that_o deal_v with_o the_o holy_a thing_n of_o god_n and_o work_v upon_o the_o conscience_n of_o man_n 78.79_o see_v can_n stay_n §._o 6._o p._n 78.79_o by_o virtue_n of_o a_o antichristian_a power_n office_n and_o calling_n him_z the_o people_n of_o god_n ought_v not_o to_o receive_v or_o join_v themselves_o unto_o but_o all_o the_o parson_n vicar_n parish_n priest_n stipendary_n etc._n etc._n that_o stand_v over_o the_o church_n assembly_n in_o england_n deal_v with_o the_o holy_a thing_n of_o god_n and_o work_v upon_o man_n conscience_n by_o virtue_n of_o a_o antichristian_a power_n office_n and_o calling_n answer_n upon_o this_o one_o prop_n lie_v all_o the_o weight_n of_o your_o building_n whe●em_v you_o strange_o triumph_n as_o if_o you_o have_v stop_v the_o mouth_n of_o the_o nonconformist_n for_o ever_o that_o either_o they_o must_v go_v back_o from_o what_o they_o have_v write_v against_o the_o abuse_n of_o the_o ministry_n or_o confess_v they_o have_v say_v and_o unsay_v as_o occasion_n have_v change_v now_o maintain_v that_o as_o right_n which_o even_o now_o they_o condemn_v as_o false_a and_o antichristian_a and_o this_o you_o press_v over_o and_o over_o with_o great_a confidence_n and_o insolency_n but_o this_o stay_n i_o have_v pluck_v out_o of_o your_o hand_n already_o and_o show_v that_o this_o exception_n have_v no_o weight_n or_o soundness_n either_o from_o truth_n or_o nonconformist_n principle_n in_o answer_n to_o this_o renew_a blast_n of_o word_n i_o will_v brief_o repeat_v what_o have_v be_v prove_v more_o at_o large_a etc._n bilson_n christian_n subject_n part_v 2._o page_n 296._o bishop_n have_v their_o authority_n to_o preach_v and_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n not_o from_o the_o prince_n but_o from_o christ_n himself_o go_v teach_v all_o nation_n etc._n etc._n only_a the_o prince_n give_v he_o publiked_a liberty_n without_o let_v o●_n disturbance_n to_o do_v that_o which_o christ_n command_v id._n p._n 309._o the_o charge_n which_o the_o preacher_n and_o bishop_n of_o england_n have_v over_o their_o flock_n proceed_v neither_o from_o prince_n nor_o pope_n never_o depend_v on_o the_o will_n or_o word_n of_o any_o earthly_a creature_n chaloner_n credo_fw-la second_o par●_n §._o 2._o he_o which_o confer_v baptism_n and_o order_n as_o the_o principal_a donor_n be_v christ_n the_o bishop_n or_o pastor_n confer_v they_o only_o as_o his_o instrument_n august_n contr_n crescon_n l._n 4._o c_o 6._o per_fw-la ministros_fw-la d●spares_v dei_fw-la mi●us_fw-la aequal_a est_fw-la quit●n_fw-la ●●illorum_fw-la sed_fw-la ejus_fw-la est_fw-la can._n stay_n §._o 3._o p._n 60._o august_n in_o psalm_n 10._o christ_n send_v he_o that_o betray_v he_o bilson_n christ_n subject_n part_n 2._o p._n 860._o the_o ghostly_a work_n be_v god_n the_o bodily_a service_n be_v the_o priest_n wherein_o judas_n the_o thief_n simon_n the_o sorcerer_n etc._n etc._n may_v challenge_v as_o james_n etc._n etc._n first_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o gospel_n derive_v not_o their_o authority_n or_o office_n from_o the_o bishop_n patron_n presbytery_n or_o people_n but_o immediate_o from_o jesus_n christ_n who_o servant_n they_o be_v who_o word_n they_o preach_v who_o sacrament_n they_o administer_v who_o flock_n they_o feed_v by_o who_o they_o be_v protect_v and_o to_o who_o they_o must_v give_v account_n if_o he_o be_v a_o antichristian_a minister_n who_o derive_v his_o authority_n from_o the_o classis_fw-la or_o bishop_n he_o be_v antichristian_a likewise_o who_o derive_v it_o from_o the_o community_n of_o the_o faithful_a for_o neither_o the_o one_o nor_o the_o other_o can_v just_o challenge_v that_o authority_n to_o themselves_o the_o bishop_n college_n ecclesiastical_a or_o church_n can_v make_v a_o minister_n formal_o or_o virtual_o but_o only_o as_o steward_n they_o put_v he_o in_o office_n who_o christ_n the_o king_n of_o saint_n and_o head_n of_o the_o church_n have_v design_v wherein_o if_o pastor_n or_o people_n shall_v walk_v disorderly_a challenge_v more_o than_o of_o right_n belong_v unto_o they_o or_o give_v up_o their_o right_n through_o sloth_n negligence_n ignorance_n or_o security_n or_o not_o attend_v unto_o the_o direction_n of_o the_o great_a shepherd_n of_o the_o flock_n shall_v choose_v a_o man_n unfit_a or_o not_o well_o qualify_v or_o shall_v proceed_v rash_o tumultuous_o upon_o misguide_a affection_n in_o that_o weighty_a business_n though_o they_o incur_v just_a blame_n and_o reprehension_n yet_o that_o make_v not_o a_o nullity_n of_o the_o ministry_n or_o of_o the_o ordinance_n dispense_v upon_o that_o election_n and_o ordination_n yourself_o tell_v we_o and_o that_o from_o the_o example_n of_o the_o scribe_n and_o pharisee_n that_o man_n be_v lawful_o call_v to_o the_o ministry_n be_v to_o be_v hear_v howsoever_o in_o some_o qualification_n defective_a and_o if_o disorderly_a proceed_n in_o election_n or_o want_v of_o just_a and_o fit_a qualification_n in_o the_o person_n elect_v do_v not_o make_v the_o election_n void_a how_o shall_v the_o mere_a want_n of_o consent_n in_o the_o people_n cause_n a_o nullity_n in_o the_o ministration_n if_o the_o careless_a or_o wilful_a neglect_n of_o administration_n and_o execution_n of_o his_o office_n cause_v not_o a_o nullity_n of_o the_o choice_n 33._o vnreasonablenesse_n of_o separ_fw-la p._n 56._o they_o may_v acknowledge_v a_o further_a calling_n than_o that_o of_o the_o prelate_n &_o yet_o not_o therein_o renounce_v the_o call_v receive_v from_o they_o for_o the_o prelate_n be_v learned_a divine_n and_o have_v approve_v their_o gift_n and_o by_o word_n and_o letter_n te_fw-la stimoniall_a give_v liberty_n to_o execute_v the_o ministry_n of_o the_o gospel_n they_o do_v not_o thereby_o thrust_v they_o into_o a_o ministry_n but_o leave_v they_o &c_n &c_n a_o examine_v of_o d._n ●_o cen._n p._n 33._o why_o shall_v the_o lack_n of_o the_o people_n suffrage_n which_o they_o voluntary_o have_v give_v away_o or_o otherwise_o lose_v make_v the_o ordinance_n dispense_v by_o he_o that_o be_v choose_v to_o be_v of_o none_o effect_v 2._o the_o consent_n of_o the_o people_n be_v not_o require_v to_o make_v a_o man_n simple_o a_o minister_n neither_o do_v episcopal_a ordination_n make_v a_o man_n the_o minister_n of_o this_o or_o that_o people_n therefore_o it_o do_v not_o hinder_v but_o a_o man_n may_v be_v make_v minister_n by_o the_o bishop_n according_a to_o the_o constitution_n of_o the_o church_n and_o a_o minister_n of_o this_o or_o that_o people_n by_o the_o free_a choice_n approbation_n and_o consent_n of_o the_o faithful_a so_o in_o the_o four_o age_n of_o the_o church_n sometime_o the_o people_n will_v choose_v a_o minister_n who_o they_o think_v meet_v and_o afterward_o bring_v he_o to_o the_o bishop_n to_o be_v admit_v by_o he_o as_o appeareth_z in_o the_o work_n of_o chrysostome_n de_fw-fr sacer_n of_o the_o choose_n of_o basil_n when_o john_n chrysostome_n himself_o give_v he_o the_o slip_n sometime_o the_o bishop_n will_v espy_v a_o meet_a man_n himself_o and_o require_v the_o consent_n of_o the_o people_n to_o choose_v ●s_v it_o appear_v by_o augustine_n in_o the_o election_n of_o eradius_fw-la to_o be_v his_o successor_n 3._o the_o
13.2_o &_o 15.2_o col._n 4.11_o james_n 5.14_o epiphan_n haeres_fw-la 27._o ignat._n ad_fw-la tralleus_n sozom._n li._n 4._o ca._n 14._o euseb_n hist_o lib._n 6._o cap._n 10_o 11._o gr._n ca._n 9_o lat_fw-la gratian._n decret_a part_n 2._o cap_n 7._o qu._n 1._o can_v 12._o and_o it_o be_v to_o be_v remember_v that_o in_o rome_n corinth_n ephesus_n philippi_n colosse_n thessalonica_n and_o such_o other_o city_n inhabit_v by_o christian_n there_o be_v more_o pastor_n than_o one_o which_o do_v in_o common_a govern_v all_o the_o church_n within_o that_o city_n and_o there_o be_v not_o any_o one_o pastor_n who_o by_o himself_o govern_v a_o certain_a part_n of_o the_o city_n peculiar_o assign_v to_o his_o charge_n thus_o also_o the_o ancient_n write_v that_o peter_n and_o paul_n be_v the_o first_o bishop_n and_o apostle_n at_o rome_n paul_n have_v linus_n and_o timothy_n peter_n clemens_n and_o anacletus_fw-la liberius_n and_o felix_n both_o govern_v the_o apostolical_a seat_n valerius_n and_o augustine_n narcissus_n and_o alexander_n in_o the_o church_n of_o hippo._n it_o be_v apparent_a the_o apostle_n ordain_v many_o overseer_n in_o one_o society_n and_o it_o be_v not_o repugnant_a either_o to_o scripture_n or_o reason_n to_o think_v there_o may_v be_v many_o pastor_n of_o one_o flock_n and_o the_o flock_n may_v be_v one_o under_o the_o joint_a care_n of_o many_o shepherd_n 34._o bilson_n perpet_n gover_n ca._n 10._o pa._n 155._o every_o church_n with_o they_o have_v many_o prophet_n pastor_n and_o teacher_n the_o number_n and_o need_v of_o the_o people_n and_o time_n so_o require_v t._n c._n repl_n l._n pa._n 34._o though_o they_o do_v not_o ordinary_o meet_v together_o in_o one_o place_n for_o to_o assemble_v together_o in_o one_o place_n be_v mere_o accidental_a to_o the_o unity_n of_o a_o society_n certain_a it_o be_v in_o time_n of_o persecution_n they_o can_v so_o meet_v and_o it_o be_v most_o probable_a in_o the_o apostle_n time_n many_o church_n be_v too_o populous_a in_o that_o manner_n to_o assemble_v together_o those_o that_o know_v the_o state_n of_o france_n in_o time_n of_o persecution_n do_v well_o understand_v that_o every_o church_n almost_o be_v gather_v of_o town_n whereof_o some_o be_v six_o mile_n some_o seven_o some_o more_o from_o the_o place_n of_o meeting_n and_o keep_v their_o congregation_n and_o therefore_o can_v not_o meet_v so_o often_o nor_o know_v one_o another_o so_o well_o as_o we_o by_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n may_v do_v four_o no_o one_o pastor_n or_o teacher_n have_v the_o power_n of_o the_o censure_n belong_v unto_o he_o and_o whether_o the_o power_n of_o dispense_n the_o seal_n belong_v to_o every_o minister_n of_o the_o gospel_n i_o leave_v it_o to_o your_o consideration_n for_o i_o know_v not_o what_o you_o will_v resolve_v but_o the_o actual_a dispensation_n of_o the_o seal_n may_v be_v forbear_v by_o some_o to_o who_o the_o right_a of_o dispence_v do_v appertain_v special_o when_o there_o be_v other_o at_o hand_n to_o do_v that_o office_n the_o apostle_n have_v power_n to_o baptize_v 236._o 1_o cor._n 1.14_o 15_o 16._o can._n neces_fw-la of_o separate_a pag._n 236._o but_o we_o may_v well_o think_v they_o do_v not_o ordinary_o baptize_v themselves_o it_o be_v possible_a you_o say_v a_o man_n may_v be_v a_o true_a ecclesiastical_a officer_n and_o yet_o never_o do_v the_o service_n thereof_o five_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o gospel_n be_v not_o make_v absolute_o a_o minister_n by_o the_o choice_n or_o election_n of_o this_o or_o that_o people_n but_o only_o their_o minister_n for_o the_o time_n of_o his_o abode_n and_o continuance_n with_o they_o lay_v these_o thing_n together_o and_o then_o your_o exception_n against_o the_o office_n of_o lecturer_n will_v vanish_v for_o if_o they_o have_v not_o the_o chief_a charge_n or_o cure_v of_o soul_n they_o be_v not_o sole_a pastor_n or_o teacher_n of_o the_o flock_n but_o join_v in_o care_n or_o charge_n with_o other_o as_o helper_n or_o assistant_n or_o choose_v by_o the_o people_n to_o supply_v the_o want_n of_o such_o as_o shall_v but_o do_v not_o feed_v the_o flock_n if_o they_o dispense_v not_o the_o seal_n neither_o be_v that_o necessary_a in_o respect_n of_o their_o stand_n for_o right_a and_o power_n from_o christ_n they_o have_v to_o dispense_v they_o but_o in_o the_o execution_n of_o that_o power_n they_o may_v be_v hinder_v or_o forbear_v it_o for_o a_o time_n if_o they_o leave_v their_o place_n be_v lawful_o call_v to_o another_o flock_n it_o may_v be_v with_o consent_n of_o the_o society_n and_o of_o the_o church_n and_o what_o then_o do_v make_v it_o unlawful_a or_o if_o the_o charge_n shall_v be_v unlawful_a it_o do_v not_o make_v the_o ministry_n strange_a or_o new_a which_o be_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n sect_n ii_o that_o ministry_n which_o be_v institute_v and_o set_v up_o beside_o those_o which_o god_n have_v appoint_v in_o his_o word_n 52._o neces_fw-la of_o separate_a pag._n 51_o 52._o be_v unlawful_a and_o false_a but_o the_o ministry_n of_o lecturer_n in_o england_n be_v institute_v and_o set_v beside_o these_o which_o god_n have_v appoint_v in_o his_o word_n therefore_o that_o ministry_n be_v unlawful_a and_o false_a the_o proposition_n be_v plain_a and_o undeniable_a and_o we_o have_v their_o own_o word_n to_o confirm_v it_o for_o thus_o they_o say_v all_z the_o ministry_n be_v by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o not_o leave_v to_o the_o will_n of_o man_n to_o devise_v at_o their_o pleasure_n as_o appear_v by_o that_o which_o be_v note_v of_o john_n where_o the_o pharisee_n come_v to_o he_o after_o that_o he_o have_v deny_v to_o be_v either_o christ_n or_o elias_n or_o another_o prophet_n conclude_v if_o he_o be_v neither_o christ_n nor_o elias_n nor_o of_o the_o prophet_n why_o baptize_v thou_o which_o have_v be_v no_o good_a argument_n if_o john_n may_v have_v be_v of_o other_o function_n than_o of_o those_o which_o be_v ordinary_a in_o the_o church_n 63._o t._n c._n 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