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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A97108	Tolleration iustified, and persecution condemn'd. In an answer or examination, of the London-ministers letter whereof, many of them are of the synod, and yet framed this letter at Sion-Colledge; to be sent among others, to themselves at the Assembly: in behalf of reformation and church-government, 2 Corinth. II. vers. 14. 15. And no marvail, for Sathan himself is transformed into an angell of light. Therefore it is no great thing, though his ministers transform themselves, as though they were ministers of righteousnesse; whose end shall be according to their works.	Walwyn, William, 1600-1681.	1646 (1646)	Wing W692A; Thomason E319_15; ESTC R200561	14,731	18

THE LETTER OF THE LONDON MINISTERS TO THE Assembly of DIVINES at VVestminster against TOLERATION mildly examined AND The mistakes thereof friendly discovered As vvell for the sakes of the Independent and Separation as for the good of the COMMON-WEALTH WHen I call to minde the generall oppression before the Parliament exercised upon good people conscientious in the practice of their religion and that the Presbyters did not onely suffer as much as any therein but exclaim'd and labour'd as much as any there-against It is a wonder to me that now that yoke is removed and a blest opportnnity offered by Almighty God to the people and their Parliament to make every honest heart glad by allowing a just and contentfull Freedome to serve God without hypocrisie and according to the perswasion of conscience That one Sect amongst us that is the Presbyters that have been yoke-fellowes with us should not rest satisfied with being free as their Brethren but become restlesse in their contrivances and endeavours till they become Lords over us The wonder is the same as it would have been had the Israelites after the Aegyptian bondage become Task-masters in the Land of Canaan one to another but that is more in them who have been instructed by our Saviour in that blessed rule of doing unto others what they would have others doe unto themselves To discover the severall policies the Presbiters have used to get into the chayre they have justled the Bishops out of whose example they have followed in many particulars as especially in the politick and graduall obtaining the Ordinance for Licencing upon a pretence of stopping the Kings writings but intentionably obtained and violently made use of against the Independents Separation and Common-wealths-men who either sees more or something contrary to the designes of the Licencer To signifie to the People how the Presbiters have laboured to twist their interest with the Parliaments as the Bishops did theirs with the King how daily and burdensomly importunate they are with the Parliament to establish their Government which they are pleased to call Christs and back it with authority and a compulsive power which by that very perticular appeares not to be his To lay open their private juncto's and councels their framing Petitions for the easie and ignorant people their urging them upon the Common Councell and obtruding them upou the chusers of Common Councell men at the Wardmote Elections even after the Parliament had signified their dislike thereof to sum up their bitter invectives in Pulpits and strange liberty they take as well there as in their writings to make the separation and Independents odious by scandals and untrue reports of them in confidence of having the presse in their own hands by which meanes no man without hazard shall answer them to lay open the manner and depth of these proceedings is not the intention of this worke I only thought good to mention these particulars that the Presbiters may see they walke in a net no 't is no cloud that covers them and that they may fear that in time they may be discern'd as well by the whole People as they are already by a very great part thereof The London Ministers Letter contriu'd in the conclave of Sion Colledge is one of the numerous projects of the Clergy not made for the information of the Sinod but the misinformation of the People to prevent which is my businesse at this time I will only take so much of it as is to the point in hand to wit Tolleration Letter It is true by reason of different lights and different sights among Brethren there may be dissenting in opinion yet why should there be any seperating from Church Communion Why because the differences in opinion is in matters that concerne Church Communion you may as well put the question why men play not the Hypocrites as they must needs do if they should communicate in that Church Society their minde cannot approve of The question had been well put if you had said by reason of different lights and different sights there may be dissenting in opinion yet why should our hearts be divided one from another why should our love from hence and our affections grow cold and dead one towards another why should we not peaceably beare one with another till our sights grow better and our light increase These would have been questions I thinke that would have pusled a truly conscientious man to have found an answer for That which next followes to wit the Churches coat may be of divers colours yet why should there be any rent in it is but an old jing of the Bishops spoken by them formerly in reference to the Presbiters and now mentioned to make that which went before which has no weight in it selfe to sound the better Letter Have we not a Touchstone of truth the good word of God and when all things are examined by the word then that which is best may be held fast but first they must be knowne and then examined afterward I shall easily concur with them thus farr that the Word of God is the Touchstone that all opinions are to be examined by that and that the best is to be held fast But now who shall be the examiners must needs be the question If the Presbiter examine the Independant and seperation they are like to find the same censure the Presbiters have already found being examined by the Bishops and the Bishops found from the Pope Adversaries certainly are not competent Judges aga ine in matters disputable and controverted every man must examine for himselfe and so every man does or else he must be conscious to himselfe that he sees with other mens eyes and has taken up an opinion not because it consents with his understanding but for that it is the safest and least troublesome as the world goes or because such a man is of that opinion whom he reverences and veri●y believes would not have been so had it not been truth I may be helpt in my examination by other men but no man o● sort of men are to examine for me insomuch that before an opinion can properly be said to be mine it must concord with my understanding Now here is the fallacy and you shall find it in all Papists Bishops Presbiters or whatsoever other sort of men have or would have in their hands the power of persecuting that they alwayes suppose themselves to be competent examiners and Judges of other men differing in judgement from them a●d upon this weake supposition by no meanes to be allowed most of the reasons and arguments of the men forementioned are supported They proceed to charge much upon the Indepe●dents for not producing their modell of Church-government for answer hereunto I refer the Reader to the Reasons printed by the Independents and given into the House in their own justification which the Ministers might have taken notice of I proceed to the supposed Reasons urged by the Ministers against

the Tolleration of Independency in the Church Letter 1. Is because the Desires and endeavours of Independents for a Toleration are at this time extreamly unseasonable and pre properous For 1. The reformation of Religion is not yet perfected and setled amongst us according to our Covenant And why may not the Reformation be raised up at last to such purity and perfection that truly tender consciences may receive abundant satisfaction for ought that yet appeares I would to God the people their own friends especially would but take notice of the fallacy of the Reason They would have reformation perfected according to the Covenant before the Independents move to be tollerated now Reformation is not perfected according to the Covenant till Schisme and Heresie is extirpated which in the sequel of this Letter they judge Independency tobe that their charity thinks it then most seasonable to move that Independency should be tolerated after it is extirpated their reason and affection in this are alike sound to the Independants Their drift in this indeede is but too evident they would have the Independents silent till they get power in their hands and then let them talke if they dare certainly the most seasonable time to move for tolleration is while the Parliament are in debate about Church Government since if stay bee made till a Church Government bee setled all motions that may but seeme to derogate from that how just soever in themselves how good soever for the Common-wealth must needs be hardly obtained And whereas they say Why may not Reformation be raised up at last to such prity and perfection that truly tender consciences may receive abundant satisfaction for ought that yet appeares Observe 1. That these very Ministers in the sequel of their Letter impute it as Levity in the Independents that they are not at a stay but in expectation of new lights and reserves as they say so that a man would thinkf they themselves were at a certainty But t is no new thing for one sort of men to object that as a crime against others which they are guilty o themselves though indeed but that the Presbiters use any weapons against the Independant's t is no crime at all yea 't is excellency in any man or woman not to be pertinacio●s or obstinate in any opinion but to have an open eare for reason and argument against whatsoever he holds and to imbrace or reject whatsoever upon further search he finds to be agreeable to or dissonant from Gods holy Word It doth appeare from the practises of the Presbiters and from this Letter and other Petitions expresly against Toleration that unlesse the Independants and seperation will submit their Judgements to theirs they shall never be tollerated if they can hinder it Their 2. Reason is that it is not yet knowne what the Government of the Independent is neither would they ever let the world know what they hold in that point ●hough some of their party have bin too forward to challenge the London Petitioners as led with blind obedience and pinning their soules upon their Preists sleeve for desiring an establishment of the Government of Christ before there was any modell of it extant Their 3d. Reason is much to the same purpose I answer 1. That the Ministers know that the Independent Government for the Generall is resolved upon by the Independents though they have not yet modelized every perticular which is a worke of time as the framing of the Pres●●terian Government was The Independents however have divers reasons for dissenting from the Presbyterian way which they have given in already And though they have not concluded every perticular of their owne but are still upon the search and enquiry yet it is seasonable however to move for toleration for that the ground of moving is not because they are Independents but because every man ought to be free in the worship and service of God compulsion being the way to increase not the number of Converts but of Hypocrites whereas it is another case for People to move for establishing of a Government they understand not having never seene it as the London Petitioners did that is most evidently a giving up of the understanding to other men sure the Presbiters themselves cannot thinke it otherwise nor yet the People upon the least consideration of it Besides the London Petitioners did not only desire as here the Ministers cunningly say an establishment of the Government of Christ but an establishment of the Government of Christ a modell whereof the reverend Assembly of Divines have fram'd which they never saw so that herein the People were abused by the Divines by being put upon a Petition wherein they suppose that Government which they never saw to be Christs Government If this be not sufficient to discover to our Presbyterian Lay-Brethren the Divines confidence of their abilitity to worke them by the smoothnesse of phrase and Language to what they please and of their own easinesse and flexibility to be so led I know not what is 2. The Ministers urge that the desires and endeavours of the Independ●nts for Toleration are unreasonable and unequall in divers regards 1. Partly because no such toleration hath heitherto been establisht sofar as we know in any Christian State by the Civill Magistrate But that the Ministers have been used to speake what they please for ● Reason in their Pulpits without contradiction they would never sure have let so slight a one as this have past from them It seems by this reason that if in any Christian State a Toleration by the Magistrate had been allowed it would not have been unreasonable for our State to allow it The practice of States being here supposed to be the rule of what 's reasonable whereas I had thought that the practice of Christian States is to be judg'd by the rule of reason and Gods Word and not reason by them That which is just and reasonable is constant and perpetually so the practice of States though Christian is variable we see different one from another and changing according to the prevalency of particular partees and therefore a most uncertain rule of what is reasonable Besides the State of Holland doth tollerate and therefore the Ministers Argument even in that part where it seems to be most strong for them makes against them Again if the practice of a Christian state be a sufficien● Argument of the reasonablenesse of a Tolleration our State may justly tollerate because Christian and because they are free to do what ever any other State might formerly have done But I stay too long upon so weak an Argument 2. Partly Because some of them have solemnly profest that they cannot suffer Presbitary and answerable hereunto is their practice in those places where Independency prevailes 'T is unreasonable it seems to tollerate Independents because Independents would not if they had the power suffer Presbyters A very Christianly argument and taken out of the 5. of

Matthew 44. Love your Enemies blesse them that curse you do good to them that hate you and pray for them which hurte you and persecute you What were all our London Ministers forgetfull of t●eir Saviours instructions Does their fury so farre blinde their understanding and exceed their piety Which seems to be but pretended now since in their practice they would become Jews and cry out an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth Whosoever meddles with them it seems shall have as good as they bting Was ever so strange a reason urg'd by a Sect of men that say they are Ministers Christs Ministers Reformers too that would make the world believe they are about to reduce all matters Christian to the originall and primitive excellency of Christ and the Apostles and yet to speak and publish to the world a spleenish reason so expressely contrary to the precepts to the practice of Christ and his followers To Christ I say that bids us love our enemies that we may be the children of our Father which is in heaven who makes the Sun to shine on the evill and the good and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust The Ministers should be like the Master what a dispro●ortion is here As if the title were taken up for some other end we know the Apostle speaks of Ministers that could transform themselves ●s though they were the Ministers of Righteousnesse I pray God our Ministers do not so I would willingly suppresse those fears and suspitions which doe what I can arise in me from their words and practice Sure they had approved themselves better christia●s if upon the discovery of so bad a spirit in any of the Independents as to persecute had they power though I beleive there are not any such I say it had been more Christ-like in our Ministers to have disswaded them from s●unmanly so much more unchristianly a vice then to have it made an argument for practice in themselves They might by the same rule be Jewes to the Jew or Turke to the Turke Oppressours to the Oppressour or doe any evill to others that others would doe to them if other mens doing of i● be an argument of the reasonablenesse thereof But I hope our Ministers will be so ingenious as when they see their weaknesses forsake them it will be both more comfortable to all other sorts of men and in the end more happy for themselves 2. Again I suppose your suggestion to be very false namely that the Independents if they had power would persecute the Presbyters though let me tell you of all s●cts of men those deserve least countenance of a State that would be Persecutors not because of their consciences in the practice and exercise of their Religion wherein the ground of Freedome consists but because a persecuting spirit is the greatest enemy to humane society the dissolver of love and brotherly affection the cause of envyings heart-burnings divisions yea and of warres it selfe Whosoever shall cast an impartiall eye upon times past and examine the true cause and reason of the subversion and devastation of States and countries will I am confident attribute it to no other then the Tyranny of Princes and Persecution of Priests So that all States minding their true interests namely the good and welfare of the people ought by all meanes to suppresse in every sect or degree of men whether Papists Episcopalls Presbyters Independents Anabaptists c. the spirit of Domination and Persecution the disquieter and disturber of mankind the offspring of Satan God being all Love and having so communicated himselfe unto us and gave us commands to be like him mercifull as he our heavenly Father is mercifull to bear with one anothers infirmities neither does reason and true wisdome dictate any other to us then that we should do unto others as we would be done unto our selves that spirit therefore which is contrary to God to reason to the well-being of States as the spirit of Persecution evidently is is most especially to be watcht and warily to be circumscribed and tied up by the wisdome of the supream power in Common-wealths I speak not this to the disgrace of Presbyters as Presbyters for as such Isuppose they are not Persecutors forasmuch as I know some and I hope there are many more of them that are zealous and conscientious for that form of Government and vet enemies to a compulsive power in matters of Religion But for this end only namely to beget a just and christian dislike in all sorts of men as well Presbyters as others of forc●ng all to one way of worship though disagreeable to their minds which cannot be done without the assistance of this fury and 〈…〉 3. And partly to grant to them and not to other Sectaries who are free born ●s well as they and have done as good service as they to the publick as they use to plead will be count●d injustice and great partiality but to grant it to all will scarce be cleared from impiety To the former part of this argument I gladly consent that Sectaries have as good claimes to Freedome as any sorts of men whatsoever because free-born because well-affected and very assistant to their country in its necessities The latter part of the argument is only an affirmation without proof the Ministers think sure it will be taken for truth because they said it for such a presumption it seems they are arrived to In the mean time what must they suppose the people to be that do imagine their bare affirmations ground for the peoples belief I would the people would learn from hence to be their own men and make use of their own understandings in the search and beleif of things let their Ministers be never so seemingly learned or judicious God hath not given them understandings for nothing the submission of the mind is th most ignoble slavery which being in our own powers to keep free the Subjection thereof argues in us the greater basenesse but to the Assertion that it will be impiety to grant it to all Sectaries I answer First that the word Sectary is communicable both to Presbyters and Independents whether it be taken in the good sense for the followers of Christ for such all Presbyters Independents Brownists Anabaptists and all else suppose and professe themsel●es to be or in the common sense for followers of some fewmen more eminent in their parts and abilities then other And hereof the Independents and Presbyters are as guilty as the Separation and so are as well Sectaries Now all Sectaries whether Presbyters Independents Brownists Antinomians Anabaptists c. have a like title and right to Freedome or a Toleration the title thereof being not any particular of the Opinion but the Equity of every mans being Free in the State he lives in and is obedient to matters of opinion being not properly to be taken into cognisance any farther then they break out into some disturbance or disquiet

advan●age of speaking ●n h●●re together without interruption that they cannot keep those Auditors th●y h●ve but that they sh●ll bee withdrawn from them by men of ●eaner 〈◊〉 in their esteeme by the illiterate and under-valued lay Preachers that ●r● as the Ministers suppose under the cloud of error and false doctrine Surely they suspect their own Tene●ss or their abilities to maintain them that esteem it a discouragement to bee opposed and feare they shall be despised if dispu●●d withall 5. They say The life and power of godlinesse will be eaten out by frivolous disputes and vain janglings Answ. Frivolous disputes and vain janglings are as unjustifiable in the people as in the Ministery but milde and gentle Reasonings which authority are onely to countenance make much to the finding out of truth which doth most advance the life and power of godlinesse Besides a Toleration being allowed and every Sect labouring to make it appear that they are in the truth whereof a good life or the power of godlinesse being the best badge or symptome hence will necessarily follow a noble contestation in all sorts of men to exceed in godlinesse to the great improvement of vertue and piety amongst us From whence it will be concluded too that that Sect will be supposed to have least truth in them that are least vertuous and godlike in their lives and conversations 6. They urge That the whole course of religion in private families will be interrupted and undermined Answ. As if the Independents and Separation were not as religious in their private families as the Presbyters 7. Reciprocall duties between persons of nearest and dearest relations will be extreamly violated Answ. A needlesse fear grounded upon a supposition that difference in judgement must needs occasion coldnesse of affection which indeed proceeds from the different countenance and protection which States have hitherto afforded to men of different judgements Hence was it that in the most persecuting times when it was almost as bad in the vulgar esteem to be an Anabaptist as a murtherer it occasioned dis-inheritings and many effects of want of affection in people of nearest relations but since the common odium and vilification is in great measure taken off by the wise and just permission of all sects of men by the Parliament man and wife father and son friend and friend though of different opinions can agree well together and love one another which shews that such difference in affection is not properly the effect of difference in judgement but of Persecution and the distinct respect and different countenance that Authority has formerly shewn towards men not conforming 8. They say That the whole work of R●formation especially in discipline a●d Government will be retarded disturbed and in danger of b●ing utterly frustrate and void It matters not since they mean in the Presbyterian discipline and Government accompanied with Persecution Nay it will be abundantly happy for the people and exceedingly conducing to a lasting Peace to which Persecution is the greatest enemy if such a government so qualified be never setled The Presbyters I hope will fall short in their ayms ● 'T is not certain that the Parliament mean to settle the Presbyterian Government since they have not declared that Government to be agreeable to Gods Word although the Presbyters are pleas'd in their expressions frequently to call their Government Christ● Government Howsoever their determination which may well be suppos'd to be buil● upon their interest is not binding They are call'd to advise withall not to controul 2. In case the Parliament should approve of that Government in the main yet the Prelaticall and persecuting power of it we may well presume since they themselves may smart under it as well as the rest of the people they will never establish 9. All other Sects and Heresies in the Kingdome will be encouraged to endeavour the like tolleration Sects and Heresies We must take leave to tell them that those are ●ermes impos'd ad placitum and may be retorted with the like confidence upon themselves How prove they Separation to be Sects and Heresies because they differ and separate from t●em That 's no Argument unlesse they can first prove themselves to be in the truth A matter with much presumption suppos'd but never yet made good and yet upon this groundlesse presumption the whole fabrick of their function their claim to the Churches their preheminence in determining matters of Religion their eager persuit after a power to persecute is mainly supported If the Separation are Sects and Heresies because the Presbyters supposing themselves to have the countenance of Authority and some esteem with the people judge them so The Presbyters by the same rule were so because the Bishops once in authority and in greater countenance with the People did so judge them to be And whereas they say That Sects and Heresies will be encouraged to endeavo●r the like tolleration with the Independents I answer that 't is their right their due as justly as their cloths or food and if they indeavour not for their Liberty they are in a measure guilty of their owne bo●dage How monstrous a matter the Ministers would make it to be for men to labour to be free from persecution They thinke they are in the ●addle already but will never I hope have the reines in their hands Their 10th feare is the same 2. They say the whole Church of England they meane their whole Church of England in sh●rt time will be ●wallowed up with di●traction and confusion These things are but laid not proved were it not that the Divines blew the coales of dissention and exasperated one mans spirit against another I am confidently perswaded we might differ in opinion and yet love one another very well ●s for any distraction or confusion that might intrench upon that civill peace the Laws migh● provide against it which is the earnest desires both of the Independen●● and Seperation 2. They say Tolleration will bring divers mischiefes upon the Common-wealth For 1. All these mischeifes in the Church will have their proportionable influence upon the Common-wealth This is but a slight supposition and mentions no evill that is like to befall the Common-wealth 2. They urge that the Kingdome will be wofully weakned by scandalls and Divisions so that the Enemies both domesticall and forraigne will be encouraged to plot and practise against it I answer that the contrary hereunto is much more likely for two Reasons 1. There is like to be a concurrence and joynt assistance in the protection of the Common-wealth which affords a joynt protection and encouragement to the People 2. There can be no greater argument to the People to venture their estates and lives in defence of their Country and that government under which they enjoy not only a liberty of Estate and Person but a freedome likewise of serving God according to their consciences which Religious men account the greatest blessing upon earth I might