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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
power_n	bishop_n	call_v	presbyter_n	3,415	5	10.3134	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A93642	Groanes for liberty· Presented from the Presbyterian (formerly non-conforming) brethren, reputed the ablest and most learned among them, in some treatises called Smectymnuus, to the high and Honorable Court of Parliament in the yeare 1641, by reason of the prelates tyranny. Now awakened and presented to themselves in the behalf of their now non-conforming brethren. With a beam of light, discovering a way to peace. Also some quæres for the better understanding of Mr Edwards last book called Gangræna. With a parallel betweene the prelacy and presbytery. / By Iohn Saltmarsh preacher of the Gospel.	Saltmarsh, John, d. 1647.; Smectymnuus.	1646 (1646)	Wing S489; Thomason E327_20; ESTC R200661	20,628	47

of forefathers condemned by their children yet afterwards taken up the fathers eate sowre grapes and the childrens teeth are set on edge 8. Things that even offend Anabaptists are to be removed It is under carefull hands and hearts more mercifull viz. the Parliament then this Remonstrant is to remit troubled consciences to no better cure then Mr. Fishers book who we hope will do by those as the Helvetians did by some things that were stumbled at amongst them though there were none but Anabaptists that stumbled at them yet the State did by Authority remove them and Zuinglius their professed adversary gives them thanks for occasioning the removall Quaere 1. Why may not the Brethren look for better cure to their troubled consciences from the State now then from some of their brethren because the hands and hearts of the State have appeared more carefull more mercifull then some of them the Priests and Levites walke by while the good Samaritans comfort the wounded 2. If the State of the Helvetians would not offend the very Anabaptists but remove the scandall why should any State now be set on and inflamed not only to offend but persecute them nor onely Anabaptists as they are called but all other their Brethren that dissent If States are commended then for being so tender why are they preached now into severity wrath revenge and tender troubled consciences made the onely trouble 9. Rigour makes Separatists But we thinke nay we know that some few Prelates by their over-rigorous pressing have made more Separatists then all the Preachers dis-affected to Ceremonies in England Quaere 1. If it hath appeared formerly that rigorous imposings have occasioned Separation why doe they now cry out of so many Separatists and not look up to themselves Why do they beat their fellow-servants out of doors and then cry out of their running away 2. Why is not persecution and imposing more forborn by the Brethren now when they have found it the cause of their own Separation formerly 3. Why do they cry out of Separatists when they see Separatists have not so much made themselves so as they have been made so by others and they have been rather driven away then they have drawn away themselves why do they cry out of of Separation when they force them into corners first if they would have the communion of their Brethren more why make they not their persecution lesse and their offences in worship and government lesse 10. Burthens to Churches to be removed In the mean we blesse God who hath put into the hearts of others into whose hands he hath concredited the work to judge more wisely and consider more mercifully and to professe in the hearing of some of us they would willingly part with that which was indifferent to themselves if they were but truly informed it was offensive to others according to that of Gregory those customes which are known to bring any burthens upon the Churches it becomes us to consider of the remooving of them Quaere Why may not the State to be petitioned by their people now of tender Consciences to the same temper of tendernesle and mercy to them that the Brethren then desired for themselves whether are those good neighbours that would have it raine onely in their owne Gardens and the Sun to shine only on their owne blossomes and have peace only in their own dwellings and their neighbour Townes running with blood 2. Were the times of non-conformists then times only for removing burdens from Churches and the times of non-conformists now times of burdening Churches 11 Mens devices ought not to hinder preaching This is just as our Bishops were wont to doe who give a full power to a Presbyter at his Ordination to preach the Gospel with a charge to do it yet will not suffer him to preach no not in his owne cure without a License Quaere 1. When any then was gifted and called to preach the Gospel and Licences were complained on to hinder why are there any other wayes devised against the liberty of the Gospel now as uniformity c. 2. Were Licenses chaines and fetters to the glorious and free spirit and are Interrogatories and Questions at times of Ordination and admission about Anti-Paedo-Baptisme Antinomianism now no restraints nor devices to the same purpose is this to rejoyce that Christ is preached howsoever nay is not this to forbid him because he followes not with us 12. Mens inventions to set up jus Divinum to advance government They that have studied to advance the Babel of Episcopacy have endeavoured to underpin it with some Texts of Scripture that they might plead a jus divinum for it Quaere 1 Was it unlawfull and politick in some to underpinne Episcopacy with some Texts of Scriptures and so to get up a jus divinum for it and is it not as unlawfull to set up another Form that is not purely of God underpinned with Texts of Scripture for a jus divinum or divine right as some would have had it 13 Oath ex Officio an unlawfull engine We desire to see further how abominable this Oath is how cryed downe by learned men how contrary to the word of God the law of nature to the Civill and Canon lawes and to the Statutes of our Kingdome he may finde in Mr Parker Quaere Was it so contrary to the word of God to all Civill and Common Lawes and the Law of our own Kingdom to extort from men Conscience secrets then of what kinde are all Formes of poseing examining interrogating to finde out the opinions of those who are to preach in any Congregation 14 When Presbyters grow as tyrannous as Bishops they are to suffer But if the Presbyters should be as generally corrupted as Bishops now are have as much strength to suppresse the Gospel and promote Popery as the Bishops by their supreame power have and if they can bring no more evidence of divine institution then Bishops can and are of no more necessity to the Church then Bishops are let the Function suffer Quaere May not that very thing be more justly feared and presumed by us now from some late experiments of them viz. that the Presbyters may grow strong to suppresse the Gospell and tyrannous c. and may be corrupted as Bishops formerly as well as they might prophesy this of themselves Caiaphas thought as little of Christ when hee said one should die for the people as some Presbyters thought of suppressing the Gospell themselves and suffering for it when they wrote thus against Bishops and Presbyters 15 Change of words in Religion an ill signe We finde that the late Innovators which have so much disturbed the peace and purity of our Church did first begin with alteration of words and the Apostle exhorts us to hold fast the forme of sound words 2 Tim. 1. 13. and to avoyd profane novelties of words Quaere If the change of words be so dangerous and

conveyed over from one of them to the other Did not the Pope whip the Protestant with fines imprisonments and the Prelate take the rod our of his hand and whip the Non-conformist and the Non-conformist or Presbyter take the same rod out of the Prelates hand and scourge those that are Non-conformists to him Consid. 7. Let it be well considered whether the design of the Nationall Ministery ever since the first working of it upon the Magi●●rates hath not a design for strengthening their owne interest by the Magistracy of the Kingdomes and how have Kingdomes been embroiled for the serving of this designe and whether is not this guilded with the glorious name of Reformation Consid. 8. Let it be considered from the severall wayes and formes of proceeding in which the beleevers of severall opinions have gone in these times to support themselves which stands most on a pure Gospel spirituall bottome supported by its owne innate congeniall and proper strength clasping about no stones no pillars of the world or humane strength Consid. 9. Let it be considered whether the whole cry of the Divines of the other party as in the late booke is not all to the Magistrate Help us Parliament help us City or we are undone the Heresies and Sects will undoe us What said Ezra I was ashamed saith he to require of the King an army and horsemen to help us against the enemy in the way because we had said the hand of our God is upon all them that seek him Consid. 10. Let it be considered whether they whom he calls Hereticks and Schismaticks make it one of their choicest Principles to desire the Magistrate to help their opinions with their prisons fines pillories but rather that they would let them alone to stand and fall by the power or weaknesse of their Gospell principles and that they may have liberty to pray for them pay to them and possesse the Gospell Each Opinion stated briefly respectively to Toleration Let it be considered to what each pretended Heresie will amount to Independency INdependents beleive that since the Parishes are so generally corrupted the Churches ought to consist of those of them onely that professe more purely as they finde Scripture Rule and Practice and as the Presbyteriant themselves many of them practice in some Ordinances as that of Baptisme●nd the Supper giving them onely to the purest Beleivers They also beleive that they ought not by a few Ministers and Elders of the Churches to bring all the Churches and Congregations under their power and dominion but rather under their advice and consultation Quaere Becaus● then they practice to meet more purely and to rule lesse one over another whether is this enough that they should be fined imprisoned banished The Anabaptists THe Anabaptists so called they hold that Beleivers ought only to be baptized and that Baptisme ought to be so for the manner as may set forth Christs death buriall and resurrection by water as the Greek word and Apostles practice seems to imply and some of the ablest Divines both of England and the great Adversaries the Papists themselves deny not and for children they reade of none the Apostles Baptized and they see not any Scripture cleare enough to warrant and they therefore forbeare Quaere Because they will not practice then what is not cleare in command and confessed by all to be but in hidden consequence because they baptize as they finde the clearest rule and practice and as none can deny but it was the Apostles generall practice to baptize Believers therefore whither is this enough that they should be Fined Imprisoned Banished The Seekers SEekers some of them Question only the way of Church and Ordinances as of Baptisme c. because they finde that the power was at first given to the Apostles with gifts and from them to others and they dare not take it from Antichrist and the Bishops as the Reformed Kingdomes generally take it nor from the Churches because they finde no such power begun from the Churches but only of choyce or consent not of power nor Churches begun before Apostles or Disciples with gifts Quaere Whither then is this enough because they conceive they dare not take Ordinances but from such and in such a manner as was given at first to fine Imprison or Banish them A Modell or Short Draught of the whole difference betwixt the Divines for the Presbytery and them of the other way respectively to the Magistrate or State drawn from the late Books and Practice of both parties in a Petitionary way They of the Presbytery to the Magistrates or State WE humbly Petition ye that Hereticks and Schismaticks wee believing all that differ from us to be so may have your power inflicted upon them whither to fines imprisonment or Banishment and upon this condition ye shall have what we can doe or preach c. The Independents to the Magistrates or State VVEe humbly Petition that ye will not hazard nor endanger your civill power of the State to help our opinions against our Brethren for we are not Infallible nor Apostolicall we see but in part and that ye will not punish any of our Brethren Presbyterials or others for what they believe or differ from us in things of outward order in the Gospel and that we may have leave to pray for ye to pay tribute to ye to fight for ye and to worship the Lord among our selves peaceably as we believe and to punish us when we disturbe ye by Tumults or trouble your peace in our way of worshiping SOME QUAERES FOR The better understanding OF Mr EDWARDS last BOOK Called in Latine Gangrena But in English a Book of Scandals AGAINST The Honourable Houses of Parliament the Army the Saints and Churches of Christ that differ from him Quaere 1. VVHether this be not a new way and work of Providence to bring forth some Gospel light to the world by presenting some truth under the name and notion of errours and heresies which can scarce obtain from the Presse and Pulpit any other way of appearing abroad and if this be not to take the wise in their own craftiness and to make Mr Cranford the Licenser and Mr Edwards the Publisher of some such Truths which the world had else never known so publikely but under the form of heresie and from their two pens but under this disguise 2. Whether that Story which Mr Edwards tels of Brasteed in Kent where he sayes a woman preaches which is known to my selfe and all in that place to be a meere untruth be not a way to judge of most of his Stories Letters Relations 3. Whether this late Book called Gangrena where there are so many Letters writ to the Reverend Mr Edwards to the Worthy Mr Edwards to the Good Mr Edwards to the Father Mr Edwards to the Worthy Reverend good Mr Edwards with divers other insinuations of his own worth be not a way of seeking glory and praise from men

be a friend be such an enemy to the State as to cut off like Nero the Tyrants wish so many thousand of their faithfull servants at a blow in such a juncture of time when they need so many Ought ye to work off so many choyce ones from this Cause till you have as many more of your way for their places and till as many Battels yeares experiments prove them as gloriously faithfull as these are is this faire dealing with the State You have brought forth before Israel and the Sunne many pretended sinnes and crimes of your Brethren Suppose they should write by your copy and bring forth the Assembly sins the crimes of all those of your way of all the Divines and others that you take in and rake back into the ashes of their unregenerate condition keep Almanacks for the yeares and dayes of their faylings watch their haltings in all things they say or do tell all the Stories of them they heare what would the next generation think of their Book and yours At this rate of writing they would not read one honest man of all their forefathers yet this is your course and method I have done for this time and I hope all that are not enchanted with the Gorgons head of Hereticks and Schismaticks and Church of England as your own Smectymnians say will read and judge I had said more to ye had you printed us more Reason and lesse Reviling and something more then Stories and Winter Tales And for our Licenser whom you so rayl at he is so much a friend to all the world of Beleevers as to give them the Scripture liberty of proving and trying all things and not to silence the Presse as some would and as the Prelates did silence the Pulpit And now let any age weighing all the differences excepting the Blasphemies c. and the nature of them nakedly without aggravations and fallacy of words bring forth a Book printed in such Letters of Blood as this Gangrena binde up all the Oxford Aulicusses the Mountagues the Pocklingtons and see if this Gangrena do not exceed them all this is Persecution and Prelacy sublimate And yet for all this I would not have the Civill power drawn against you if we had all the Magistrates on our side but rather that you may in the flowings of a more hevenly spirit with your head of waters and your eyes a fountain of teares write against your own Book and let the world see that Men in these times are not Infallible as you all conclude but may mistake their Brethren for Enemies some Truths for Errours and Zeal for Persecution as the very Iewes did when they crucified Christ as they thought for Blasphemy And some shall kill ye sayth Christ and think they do God good service A Parallel between the Prelacy and the Presbytery Quaere VVHether if we should reply to Mr Edwards in his own words and as Solomon saith answer him according to his c. we might not compare things as followeth and trace up their proceedings into the very mystery of Prelacy 1. The Prelates were ordained Ministers by the Bishops Quere Whether may it not be said the Divines that sit now are Ordained by the same power of Bishops to be Ministers and so by that power ordaine others 2. The Prelates when they had made Canons procured the power of the State to impose them upon all the Kingdome Quaere Whether may it not said the Divines now get the same power to what they decree and accordingly impose them upon the Kingdom 3. The Prelates composed one great Service-Book for direction to uniformity of worship according as they had ordered under penalties yet without the least word of Scripture to prove the truth of any thing in it Quaere Whether may it not be said Divines have composed one great book accordingly now for the like uniformity viz. the Directory to be observed under fines and penalties and yet without the least word or title of Scripture to prove the truth of any thing in it 4. The Prelates ordered that from that Book Prayers should be read to the people Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now have not east the Prayers of the Spirit into such Formes and Methods that a little invention will make them as stinted currant and legible Formes as before and accordingly read in divers places 5. The Prelates counted all that would not conforme to them Schismaticall and Hereticall Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now count not all so that will not be uniforme with them 6. The Prelates forbade all to Preach and Print that did not Preach and Print for their way of worship and Government Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now would not have all hindred from Pulpit and Presse that will not be of way of Worship and Government with them 7. The Prelates possessed themselves of the States power and favour Quere Whether may it not be said the Divines now wholly labour after the same interest both in Parliament and other Counsels 8. The Prelates had their Licensers to stop all that write against their power and pompe Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now labour to engrosse the power of licensing only to themselves 9. The Prelates had for part of their Government Fines Pillories Whips Imprisonment Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now have those very things for part of theirs 10. The Prelates had Parishes for their Churches and Tythes for their maintenance Quere Whether may it not be said the Divines now have the same Parishes now for Churches the same Tithes for maintenance 11. The Prelates called all other meetings but their Parish-meetings Conventicles Quere Whether may it not be said the Divines now call the Churches and people that meet now together apart from them Conventicles as formerly 12. The Prelates called the Non-conformists factious troublers of the State Quere Whether may it not be said the Divines now do accordingly call any that write or oppose their Presbytery factious and State-troublers 13. The Prelates ever accused their Non-conforming Brethren to the King and Councell Quere Whether may it not be said the Divines now accordingly accuse their Non-conforming Brethren to the Parliament and other Councels 14. The Prelates had a designe to send all their Non-conforming brethren to strange Kingdomes as New England Quere Whether may it not be said the Divines now endeavour to send their Non-conforming Brethren to other places out of the Kingdome 15. The Prelates ingrossed all the Preaching and preferring Divines to all places of honour and popularity in the Kingdom to themselves Quere Whether may it not be said the Divines now do accordingly preferre to all places of publique trust honour and employment as Vniversities Navy Armies Garrison-Towns Counties Cities c 16. The Prelates would not suffer men whom they called Lay-men to speak of the Scriptures Quere Whether may it not be