1_o the_o substance_n of_o their_o call_n consist_v not_o in_o this_o lay_n on_o of_o hand_n but_o in_o some_o thing_n else_o and_o what_o shall_v that_o be_v but_o their_o election_n by_o the_o people_n 2._o if_o it_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o sign_n of_o pray_v over_o then_o then_o why_o be_v a_o consummatory_n rite_n and_o a_o benedictory_n sign_n gainsay_v and_o oppose_v for_o what_o great_a difference_n be_v there_o between_o a_o sign_n of_o prayer_n and_o a_o benedictory_n sign_n and_o how_o shall_v he_o be_v reconcile_v with_o himself_o that_o say_v it_o be_v nothing_o but_o such_o a_o sign_n of_o pray_v and_o yet_o will_v not_o yield_v that_o it_o be_v only_o a_o benedictory_n sign_n and_o for_o the_o other_o particular_a where_o he_o say_v this_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n be_v enjoy_v to_o timothy_n as_o a_o ministerial_a act_n if_o by_o ministerial_a act_n he_o mean_v a_o act_n that_o can_v be_v lawful_o perform_v by_o none_o but_o only_o by_o a_o minister_n then_o i_o desire_v some_o proof_n that_o this_o be_v so_o enjoin_v to_o timothy_n that_o it_o be_v enjoin_v to_o he_o i_o grant_v but_o that_o it_o be_v so_o enjoin_v needs_o some_o better_a proof_n than_o a_o bare_a and_o naked_a affirmation_n special_o since_o many_o thing_n be_v enjoin_v to_o timothy_n in_o those_o example_n which_o be_v and_o be_v just_o applyable_a to_o all_o christian_n furthermore_o suppose_v it_o be_v true_a that_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v enjoin_v to_o timothy_n as_o a_o ministerial_a act_n how_o do_v this_o reach_n to_o make_v good_a the_o thing_n in_o question_n what_o shall_v hinder_v but_o the_o people_n election_n may_v contain_v the_o substance_n of_o a_o minister_n call_v notwithstanding_o or_o how_o do_v it_o therefore_o follow_v that_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v not_o a_o consummatory_n rite_n or_o benedictory_n sign_n but_o something_o more_o be_v there_o any_o such_o necessary_a consequence_n here_o that_o the_o one_o of_o these_o must_v needs_o follow_v upon_o the_o other_o for_o my_o part_n i_o see_v it_o not_o nor_o see_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o contrary_a but_o if_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v such_o a_o ministerial_a act_n as_o he_o say_v it_o be_v yet_o it_o may_v still_o be_v mere_o a_o consummatory_n rite_n or_o benedictory_n sign_n and_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o call_n consist_v still_o in_o the_o people_n election_n himself_o do_v say_v as_o we_o hear_v even_o now_o that_o imposition_n of_o hand_n act._n 6._o though_o here_o he_o call_v it_o a_o ministerial_a act_n be_v nothing_o but_o a_o sign_n of_o pray_v over_o the_o deacon_n and_o therefore_o these_o two_o to_o be_v a_o ministerial_a act_n and_o yet_o to_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o sign_n of_o prayer_n or_o benedictory_n sign_n which_o to_o i_o be_v the_o same_o be_v not_o so_o inconsistent_a by_o his_o own_o doctrine_n but_o that_o they_o may_v well_o stand_v together_o and_o himself_o do_v also_o hold_v that_o the_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n mention_v numb_a 8._o 10._o be_v a_o ministerial_a act_n and_o that_o they_o who_o do_v it_o perform_v the_o same_o as_o ecclesiastical_a elder_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v he_o will_v not_o deny_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o levite_n call_v be_v in_o the_o immediate_a designment_n and_o appointment_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o not_o in_o the_o performance_n of_o this_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n and_o therefore_o it_o follow_v that_o if_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n be_v grant_v to_o be_v a_o ministerial_a act_n yet_o still_o it_o may_v be_v mere_o a_o benedictory_n sign_n and_o the_o substance_n or_o essence_n of_o the_o minister_n call_v not_o consist_v in_o it_o but_o in_o some_o thing_n else_o a_o ministerial_a call_n stand_v in_o a_o authoritative_a send_n rom._n 10._o 15._o and_o i_o see_v not_o well_o how_o the_o people_n do_v send_v a_o minister_n to_o themselves_o answ_n but_o it_o be_v not_o easy_a to_o see_v how_o they_o choose_v a_o man_n for_o a_o minister_n to_o themselves_o be_v send_v unto_o they_o by_o god_n and_o if_o god_n do_v furnish_v a_o man_n with_o gift_n and_o a_o holy_a propensity_n of_o mind_n to_o the_o work_n in_o general_a and_o to_o such_o or_o such_o a_o people_n in_o particular_a and_o make_v way_n by_o his_o providence_n thereto_o than_o who_o can_v deny_v but_o such_o a_o man_n be_v send_v of_o god_n unto_o that_o people_n and_o then_o if_o that_o people_n observe_v god_n send_v of_o he_o in_o this_o sâ—â—t_n do_v hereupon_o elect_v and_o choose_v he_o and_o promise_v to_o be_v obedient_a to_o he_o in_o the_o lord_n what_o be_v there_o now_o want_v to_o the_o substance_n and_o offence_n of_o such_o a_o man_n calling_n to_o such_o a_o people_n and_o yet_o the_o man_n be_v not_o send_v by_o they_o to_o themselves_o but_o send_v by_o god_n and_o receive_v and_o choose_v by_o they_o parcus_n understand_v this_o send_n rom._n 10._o of_o god_n send_v and_o so_o do_v piscator_fw-la and_o who_o not_o and_o to_o understand_v it_o otherwise_o will_v be_v to_o condemn_v the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n who_o be_v not_o send_v by_o man_n at_o all_o and_o yet_o do_v true_o answer_v this_o scripture_n in_o that_o they_o be_v send_v of_o god_n true_a it_o be_v ordinary_a minister_n be_v not_o send_v of_o god_n in_o such_o a_o extraordinary_a way_n as_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n be_v but_o in_o a_o ordinary_a way_n and_o by_o ordinary_a mean_n which_o way_n and_o mean_n if_o they_o do_v observe_v they_o also_o may_v be_v true_o say_v to_o be_v send_v of_o god_n unto_o the_o people_n but_o peradventure_o our_o brother_n mean_v that_o the_o people_n may_v not_o lawful_o choose_v a_o man_n for_o minister_v unto_o themselves_o except_o he_o be_v first_o send_v unto_o they_o in_o a_o authoritative_a way_n by_o some_o other_o man_n and_o that_o otherwise_o he_o be_v not_o send_v unto_o they_o of_o god_n which_o if_o it_o be_v true_a than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n as_o i_o say_v be_v not_o send_v of_o god_n for_o plain_a it_o be_v that_o man_n send_v they_o not_o it_o will_v also_o hereupon_o be_v requisite_a to_o be_v clear_v that_o some_o man_n beside_o the_o church_n have_v authority_n to_o send_v minister_n to_o the_o church_n and_o who_o these_o man_n be_v that_o have_v such_o authority_n have_v need_v to_o be_v clear_v also_o which_o i_o for_o my_o part_n think_v will_v not_o be_v do_v in_o haste_n and_o till_o this_o be_v do_v i_o know_v no_o reason_n but_o i_o may_v still_o retain_v this_o apprehension_n that_o man_n who_o be_v qualify_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n and_o due_o elect_v and_o choose_v to_o some_o office_n of_o the_o ministry_n by_o god_n people_n be_v true_o send_v of_o god_n unto_o that_o people_n the_o people_n have_v not_o either_o formal_o or_o by_o grant_n of_o christ_n virtual_o the_o key_n commit_v to_o they_o how_o then_o can_v they_o give_v the_o key_n to_o pastor_n answ_n yet_o in_o p._n 7._o he_o tell_v we_o that_o he_o deny_v not_o but_o there_o be_v a_o power_n virtual_a not_o formal_a in_o the_o church_n of_o believer_n to_o supply_v the_o want_n of_o ordination_n of_o pastor_n or_o some_o other_o act_n of_o the_o key_n simple_o necessary_a hic_fw-la &_o nunc_fw-la and_o this_o power_n say_v he_o be_v virtual_a not_o formal_a now_o to_o say_v they_o have_v this_o power_n neither_o formal_o nor_o virtual_o and_o yet_o to_o say_v they_o have_v this_o power_n virtual_o though_o not_o formal_o what_o be_v it_o but_o a_o apparent_a contradiction_n but_o suppose_v it_o be_v true_a that_o the_o people_n have_v not_o this_o power_n either_o formal_o or_o virtual_o yet_o mr._n ball_n and_o mr._n baiâ—s_v afore_o he_o do_v tell_v we_o that_o ministerial_o they_o may_v give_v what_o they_o never_o have_v viz._n as_o minister_a to_o he_o who_o have_v power_n and_o virtue_n of_o derive_v it_o as_o a_o man_n not_o 〈◊〉_d a_o penny_n of_o his_o own_o may_v give_v a_o 100_o l._n if_o the_o king_n make_v he_o his_o almoner_n thus_o the_o church_n derive_v aâ—_n take_v the_o person_n who_o christ_n describe_v and_o out_o of_o power_n will_v â—ave_n place_v in_o this_o or_o that_o office_n in_o his_o church_n the_o power_n of_o the_o imperial_a dignity_n be_v not_o in_o the_o elector_n of_o the_o emperor_n nor_o the_o power_n of_o that_o office_n and_o authority_n whereunto_o a_o minister_n be_v elect_v in_o the_o church_n who_o choose_v he_o to_o that_o office_n ball_n trial_n of_o separate_a pag._n 239_o 240._o pag._n 494_o 495._o people_n may_v as_o the_o sheep_n of_o christ_n discern_v his_o voice_n joh._n 10._o and_o so_o have_v a_o power_n of_o election_n of_o their_o own_o pastor_n nor_o do_v this_o
against_o the_o answer_n it_o in_o his_o pag._n 410._o where_o he_o propose_v a_o object_n to_o this_o effect_n to_o wit_n paul_n exercise_v the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n upon_o barbarian_n and_o may_v have_v preach_v to_o indian_n and_o do_v to_o scoff_a athenian_n yea_o paul_n by_o this_o power_n dogmatic_a rebuke_v the_o athenian_n act._n 17._o 22._o yet_o paul_n have_v no_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v the_o athenian_n and_o then_o he_o subjoin_v my_o name_n and_o cite_v in_o the_o margin_n the_o 43_o and_o 44_o page_n of_o the_o answer_n answ_n this_o objection_n be_v take_v from_o paul_n rebuke_v the_o athenian_n our_o brother_n have_v no_o reason_n to_o propose_v it_o under_o mr._n tompsons_n 〈◊〉_d and_o i_o for_o as_o much_o as_o in_o all_o that_o discourse_n of_o we_o the_o athenian_n to_o my_o remembrance_n be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o once_o mention_v sure_o in_o the_o page_n by_o he_o allege_v there_o be_v no_o mention_n of_o the_o athenian_n at_o all_o and_o therefore_o why_o this_o objection_n shall_v be_v propose_v and_o report_v by_o he_o as_o we_o we_o do_v not_o know_v which_o i_o do_v not_o say_v 〈◊〉_d though_o i_o think_v the_o objection_n so_o weak_a as_o though_o the_o author_n of_o it_o may_v not_o well_o own_v it_o for_o from_o whosoever_o the_o objection_n come_v for_o aught_o that_o i_o yet_o perceive_v there_o be_v good_a weight_n therein_o for_o which_o cause_n and_o because_o in_o one_o of_o those_o page_n we_o have_v deliver_v something_o concern_v a_o minister_n power_n to_o preach_v to_o pagan_n in_o general_a though_o nothing_o concern_v the_o athenians_n in_o particular_a as_o he_o report_v therefore_o i_o be_o willing_a to_o consider_v what_o mr._n rutherforâ—_n say_v for_o the_o satisfy_n of_o the_o objection_n propose_v as_o not_o willing_a to_o pass_v by_o any_o thing_n without_o consideration_n wherein_o ourselves_o may_v seem_v to_o be_v concern_v or_o aim_v at_o i_o deny_v not_o say_v he_o but_o there_o be_v a_o great_a odds_n betwixt_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v by_o way_n of_o preach_v which_o may_v be_v and_o be_v always_o perform_v by_o one_o and_o a_o juridical_a rebuke_v by_o a_o power_n jurididicall_a of_o the_o key_n which_o be_v perform_v only_o by_o a_o church_n society_n answ_n if_o all_o this_o be_v grant_v you_o the_o objection_n be_v not_o satisfy_v nor_o his_o purpose_n gain_v thereby_o for_o the_o clear_n whereof_o it_o be_v good_a to_o consider_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o how_o this_o objection_n come_v in_o and_o whereto_o it_o tend_v and_o then_o we_o may_v better_o discern_v how_o the_o objection_n be_v remove_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n answer_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n be_v whether_o a_o synod_n have_v power_n of_o jurisidiction_n and_o excommunication_n mr._n rutherford_n his_o scope_n in_o that_o place_n be_v to_o prove_v the_o affirmative_a and_o therefore_o for_o a_o dozen_o or_o 14_o page_n together_o he_o have_v these_o word_n in_o the_o top_n of_o every_o lease_n the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o his_o medium_n to_o prove_v this_o tenent_n be_v this_o because_o a_o synod_n have_v power_n to_o rebuke_v whereupon_o ensue_v the_o objection_n that_o paul_n may_v rebuke_v the_o athenian_n and_o yet_o may_v not_o excommunicate_v they_o and_o therefore_o enough_o a_o synod_n may_v rebuke_v it_o follow_v not_o that_o they_o may_v excommunicate_v this_o be_v the_o order_n of_o the_o dispute_n as_o be_v plain_o to_o be_v seem_v by_o pâ—â—â—sing_v the_o place_n and_o now_o come_v in_o the_o answer_n which_o mr._n rutherford_n give_v to_o the_o objection_n to_o wit_n that_o there_o be_v a_o great_a odds_o betwixt_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v and_o a_o juridical_a the_o one_o be_v perform_v by_o one_o and_o the_o other_o by_o many_o which_o answer_v i_o conceive_v be_v not_o sufficient_a because_o this_o difference_n may_v he_o grant_v and_o many_o more_o may_v be_v add_v if_o he_o please_v and_o yet_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n not_o gain_v nor_o the_o objection_n remove_v at_o all_o for_o what_o though_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v be_v perform_v by_o one_o and_o a_o juridical_a by_o many_o yet_o still_o it_o remain_v clear_a that_o there_o may_v be_v rebuke_v where_o there_o be_v no_o jurisdiction_n and_o therefore_o though_o a_o synod_n may_v rebuke_v it_o follow_v not_o that_o they_o may_v excommunicate_v nor_o have_v power_n of_o jurisdiction_n if_o our_o brother_n will_v have_v satisfy_v the_o objection_n he_o shall_v not_o have_v satisfy_v himself_o with_o allege_v the_o difference_n mention_v between_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v and_o a_o juridical_a or_o synodical_a but_o shall_v have_v prove_v that_o there_o can_v be_v any_o concionall_a rebuke_v at_o all_o at_o least_o wise_a not_o any_o rebuke_v of_o athenian_n who_o be_v not_o subject_a to_o excommunication_n and_o if_o this_o have_v be_v prove_v the_o objection_n have_v be_v full_o remove_v but_o this_o he_o have_v not_o prove_v at_o all_o nor_o once_o attempt_v to_o prove_v it_o but_o plain_o yield_v the_o contrary_a and_o therefore_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v the_o objection_n remain_v in_o its_o strength_n and_o so_o the_o strength_n of_o his_o argument_n remove_v thereby_o who_o will_v prove_v the_o synod_n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n from_o their_o power_n of_o rebuke_v but_o let_v as_o hear_v what_o he_o answer_v in_o the_o word_n ensue_v it_o can_v be_v deny_v say_v he_o but_o the_o rebuke_v of_o man_n because_o they_o subvert_v soul_n verse_n 24._o be_v not_o a_o mere_a concionall_a rebuke_v which_o may_v be_v perform_v by_o one_o first_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v verse_n 24._o second_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o many_o by_o a_o whole_a synod_n 6._o 22._o three_o it_o be_v perform_v by_o a_o political_a society_n answ_n and_o what_o of_o all_o this_o may_v it_o not_o nevertheless_o be_v deny_v that_o this_o rebuke_v be_v any_o other_o then_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n be_v it_o grant_v that_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v and_o a_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o many_o and_o if_o be_v grant_v by_o a_o political_a society_n too_o must_v it_o need_v follow_v that_o therefore_o it_o be_v juridical_a or_o in_o way_n of_o jurisdiction_n i_o see_v no_o necessity_n of_o such_o consequence_n nay_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o do_v confess_v as_o we_o hear_v afore_o in_o his_o page_n 393._o that_o the_o specification_n of_o this_o rebuke_n must_v not_o be_v fetch_v from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n because_o one_o apostle_n might_n himself_o alone_o have_v rebuke_v these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n if_o therefore_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o many_o person_n a_o whole_a synod_n a_o political_a society_n or_o what_o ever_o else_o he_o will_v call_v they_o be_v the_o efficient_a cause_n of_o this_o rebuke_n yet_o all_o this_o be_v too_o little_a to_o prove_v that_o the_o rebuke_n be_v juridical_a unless_o the_o specification_n of_o it_o must_v be_v fetch_v from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n which_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o disclayme_v moreover_o i_o will_v put_v this_o case_n suppose_v a_o pagan_a or_o a_o christian_a of_o another_o nation_n and_o kingdom_n shall_v come_v into_o a_o church_n assembly_n whether_o the_o assembly_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n or_o a_o synod_n and_o in_o the_o assembly_n shall_v open_o and_o scandalous_o misbehave_v himself_o in_o one_o kind_n or_o other_o to_o the_o dishonour_n of_o god_n and_o grieve_v of_o the_o godly_a and_o the_o danger_n of_o corrupt_v other_o that_o shall_v behold_v such_o bad_a example_n i_o will_v glad_o know_v whether_o this_o assembly_n be_v it_o synod_n or_o other_o may_v not_o lawful_o rebuke_v this_o scandalous_a practice_n and_o behaviour_n and_o if_o they_o may_v whether_o it_o will_v follow_v thereupon_o that_o they_o may_v also_o lawful_o excommunicate_v the_o man_n if_o his_o sin_n and_o impenitency_n shall_v deserve_v the_o same_o if_o it_o be_v say_v they_o may_v i_o will_v know_v quo_fw-la jure_fw-la and_o who_o give_v they_o such_o authority_n to_o excommunicate_a pagan_n or_o man_n of_o another_o nation_n be_v only_o there_o present_a at_o that_o time_n occasional_o and_o if_o they_o may_v not_o so_o proceed_v against_o such_o a_o person_n than_o the_o answer_n to_o master_n rutherford_n alledgement_n in_o the_o case_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n be_v ready_a and_o plain_a for_o as_o he_o allege_v first_o here_o be_v a_o rebuke_v second_o a_o rebuke_v of_o many_o even_o a_o whole_a synod_n three_o of_o a_o political_a society_n and_o body_n even_o so_o the_o same_o may_v be_v say_v in_o this_o case_n in_o all_o the_o particular_n for_o first_o here_o be_v a_o rebuke_v second_o rebuke_v of_o many_o three_o by_o a_o political_a society_n and_o body_n and_o yet_o all_o this_o be_v too_o little_a to_o prove_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o
of_o nice_a the_o first_o general_a council_n of_o constantinople_n with_o other_o counsel_n and_o author_n witness_v the_o same_o pag._n 201_o 202._o and_o in_o a_o three_o place_n he_o grant_v that_o all_o matter_n in_o the_o church_n must_v be_v do_v with_o the_o people_n consent_n consentiente_fw-la plebe_fw-la allege_v a_o matter_n of_o 18._o or_o 19_o author_n for_o the_o same_o tenet_n peaceable_a plea_n p._n 49._o and_o in_o another_o place_n he_o allege_v and_o approve_v the_o judgement_n of_o mr._n calderwood_n and_o mr._n cartwright_n affirm_v that_o this_o liberty_n be_v purchase_v by_o the_o blood_n of_o christ_n due_a right_n second_o pag._n 464._o all_o which_o do_v plain_o show_v that_o in_o his_o judgement_n the_o people_n have_v some_o 〈◊〉_d or_o privilege_n or_o right_a in_o church_n matter_n yea_o as_o himself_o say_v in_o this_o they_o have_v divinum_fw-la jus_o god_n right_a and_o yet_o for_o all_o this_o the_o apostle_n word_n do_v plain_o forbid_v woman_n to_o speak_v in_o the_o church_n 1_o cor._n 14._o 34._o 1_o tim._n 2._o 12._o which_o very_o prohibition_n to_o woman_n do_v also_o secret_o imply_v that_o man_n may_v have_v liberty_n to_o practice_v though_o woman_n may_v not_o now_o then_o if_o the_o people_n have_v liberty_n privilege_n right_o to_o consent_v and_o act_n in_o church_n matter_n yea_o to_o speak_v in_o the_o church_n and_o yet_o woman_n may_v not_o speak_v therein_o how_o can_v this_o stand_v which_o here_o m._n rutherford_n write_v that_o if_o the_o people_n have_v any_o liberty_n this_o liberty_n must_v also_o be_v due_a to_o woman_n if_o the_o apostle_n word_n and_o our_o brother_n own_o doctrine_n in_o the_o place_n cite_v do_v stand_v his_o say_n in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v now_o in_o hand_n can_v stand_v they_o be_v so_o contrary_a one_o to_o another_o three_o say_v he_o what_o privilege_n the_o people_n have_v in_o ordination_n to_o confer_v a_o ministry_n which_o they_o neither_o have_v formal_o nor_o virtual_o i_o know_v not_o answ_n neither_o formal_o nor_o virtual_o then_o hear_v your_o own_o word_n pag._n 7._o i_o deny_v not_o but_o there_o be_v a_o power_n virtual_a not_o formal_a in_o the_o church_n of_o believer_n to_o supply_v the_o want_n of_o ordination_n of_o pastor_n hic_fw-la &_o nunc_fw-la this_o power_n be_v virtual_a not_o formal_a etc._n etc._n whereas_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n the_o virtual_a power_n as_o well_o as_o the_o formal_a be_v deny_v which_o thing_n be_v not_o free_a from_o interfer_v or_o strong_a appearance_n thereof_o our_o word_n be_v not_o just_a the_o same_o which_o m._n rutherford_n set_v down_o a_o privilege_n in_o ordination_n to_o confer_v a_o ministry_n but_o these_o be_v our_o word_n a_o liberty_n exercise_v about_o ordination_n etc._n etc._n and_o who_o know_v not_o but_o there_o may_v be_v a_o liberty_n exercise_v about_o ordination_n or_o any_o other_o ordinance_n by_o way_n of_o consent_n thereto_o or_o desire_v thereof_o etc._n etc._n without_o any_o authoritative_a act_n therein_o and_o if_o this_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n be_v such_o a_o fault_n then_o how_o shall_v he_o be_v justify_v who_o do_v give_v to_o the_o people_n a_o great_a matter_n than_o this_o liberty_n do_v amount_v unto_o even_o a_o power_n to_o do_v that_o which_o shall_v stand_v for_o ordination_n itself_o which_o to_o do_v i_o conceive_v be_v more_o than_o to_o exercise_v some_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n and_o when_o the_o reader_n shall_v have_v consider_v these_o ensue_a word_n of_o m_o rutherford_n then_o let_v he_o be_v judge_n whether_o m._n rutherford_n do_v not_o give_v this_o power_n unto_o the_o people_n in_o some_o case_n as_o a_o rose_n say_v he_o cause_v to_o grow_v in_o winter_n by_o art_n be_v of_o that_o same_o nature_n with_o a_o rise_v produce_v in_o summer_n by_o nature_n though_o the_o manner_n of_o production_n be_v different_a so_o be_v they_o both_o true_a pastor_n those_o who_o have_v no_o call_n but_o the_o people_n election_n and_o those_o who_o have_v ordination_n by_o pastor_n p._n 186._o and_o in_o the_o page_n follow_v he_o give_v two_o reason_n to_o prove_v that_o in_o some_o case_n election_n by_o the_o people_n only_o may_v stand_v for_o ordination_n 1._o because_o god_n be_v not_o necessary_o tie_v to_o succession_n of_o pastor_n 2._o because_o where_o man_n be_v gift_v for_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n and_o there_o be_v no_o pastor_n to_o be_v have_v the_o give_v of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o a_o call_n of_o god_n who_o be_v not_o want_v to_o his_o own_o gracious_a intention_n though_o ordinary_a mean_n fail_v now_o if_o the_o people_n without_o pastor_n may_v do_v that_o which_o shall_v stand_v for_o ordination_n and_o if_o their_o election_n do_v make_v a_o minister_n in_o some_o case_n this_o seem_v to_o be_v more_o then_o only_o to_o exercise_v some_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n for_o as_o much_o as_o they_o may_v do_v this_o latter_a and_o possible_o no_o minister_n be_v make_v thereby_o whereas_o in_o the_o other_o case_n a_o man_n be_v make_v a_o true_a pastor_n and_o minister_n as_o well_o as_o by_o ordination_n itself_o marvel_v it_o be_v therefore_o that_o the_o great_a be_v allow_v as_o lawful_a and_o not_o the_o lesser_a that_o some_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n may_v not_o be_v allow_v and_o yet_o that_o can_v be_v allow_v which_o may_v stand_v for_o ordination_n itself_o and_o which_o make_v a_o ministerâ—_n as_o true_o as_o ordination_n do_v chap._n xviii_o of_o mr._n rutherford_n report_n of_o synodical_a proposition_n in_o new-england_n next_o after_o this_o our_o reverend_a author_n fall_v to_o scan_v as_o he_o say_v pag._n 476._o some_o synodical_a proposition_n of_o the_o church_n of_o new_a england_n as_o he_o call_v they_o together_o with_o a_o table_n of_o church_n power_n which_o he_o call_v the_o table_n of_o new_a england_n but_o with_o favour_n of_o soworthy_a a_o man_n he_o do_v great_o mistake_v the_o matter_n for_o neither_o be_v there_o any_o such_o synod_n nor_o synodical_a proposition_n as_o he_o speak_v of_o nor_o any_o such_o table_n of_o new_a england_n as_o he_o mention_v there_o be_v indeed_o at_o cambridge_n in_o the_o year_n 1643._o a_o print_a conference_n of_o some_o of_o the_o elder_n of_o that_o country_n where_o sundry_a point_n of_o church_n judgement_n be_v private_o discourse_v of_o and_o this_o be_v all_o but_o as_o the_o meeting_n be_v not_o any_o synod_n as_o synod_n be_v usual_o understand_v so_o neither_o be_v there_o any_o synodical_a proposition_n there_o agree_v upon_o nor_o any_o table_n of_o proposition_n agree_v upon_o to_o be_v give_v forth_o as_o the_o doctrine_n of_o new_a england_n this_o i_o be_o able_a to_o testify_v have_v be_v present_a at_o that_o meeting_n from_o the_o begin_n thereof_o unto_o the_o end_n and_o sundry_a other_o of_o the_o elder_n of_o these_o church_n can_v testify_v the_o same_o upon_o the_o same_o ground_n and_o know_v full_a well_o the_o truth_n of_o what_o i_o hear_v relate_v i_o will_v not_o spend_v time_n in_o reply_v to_o what_o he_o have_v write_v upon_o so_o manifest_a misinformation_n and_o mistake_v what_o information_n he_o go_v upon_o i_o know_v not_o per_fw-mi adventure_v some_o note_n may_v have_v come_v to_o his_o view_n which_o one_o or_o other_o may_v gather_v at_o that_o conference_n for_o his_o own_o private_a use_n peradventure_o some_o in_o their_o simplicity_n mean_v no_o hurt_n many_o have_v call_v that_o private_a conference_n by_o the_o name_n and_o term_v of_o a_o synoâ—_n and_o m._n rutherford_n may_v thereupon_o adventure_v to_o publish_v in_o print_n as_o here_o we_o see_v but_o however_o they_o mistake_v a_o rose_n sure_o i_o be_o synodical_a proposition_n there_o be_v none_o 〈◊〉_d any_o synod_n at_o all_o not_o new_a england_n table_n and_o therefore_o i_o think_v himself_o and_o other_o may_v do_v well_o and_o wise_o hereafter_o to_o be_v inform_v by_o good_a and_o sufficient_a intelligence_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o they_o publish_v to_o the_o world_n concerâ—ing_v the_o church_n in_o new_a england_n or_o else_o not_o to_o believe_v the_o same_o much_o less_o to_o divulge_v the_o same_o in_o print_n for_o what_o comfort_n can_v it_o be_v to_o any_o christian_n to_o receive_v and_o publish_v to_o the_o world_n against_o a_o man_n neighbour_n special_o against_o whole_a church_n of_o christ_n such_o report_v as_o for_o the_o matter_n contain_v in_o they_o do_v not_o agree_v with_o truth_n chap._n xix_o of_o the_o appeal_v of_o luther_n and_o cranmer_n and_o of_o the_o power_n and_o jurisdiction_n in_o general_a counsel_n deny_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n whether_o therein_o he_o do_v not_o contradict_v himself_o and_o also_o overthrow_v the_o jurisdiction_n of_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_n assembly_n in_o
understand_v this_o church_n remedy_n as_o that_o for_o all_o this_o the_o national_a church_n must_v not_o partake_v thereof_o so_o as_o to_o be_v censure_v and_o excommunicate_v by_o any_o church_n above_o it_o why_o may_v not_o other_o understand_v it_o so_o as_o that_o synod_n and_o class_n yea_o and_o congregation_n too_o be_v exempt_v from_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o church_n for_o my_o part_n i_o know_v no_o reason_n but_o if_o the_o congregation_n be_v liable_a to_o the_o censure_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n by_o this_o scripture_n because_o our_o saviour_n remedy_n be_v a_o church_n remedy_n by_o the_o same_o reason_n the_o class_n and_o synod_n must_v be_v liable_a to_o censure_v also_o yea_o and_o the_o national_a church_n likewise_o because_o this_o reason_n be_v applyable_a to_o all_o these_o as_o well_o as_o to_o the_o congregation_n so_o that_o this_o notion_n of_o a_o church_n remedy_n do_v not_o help_v his_o cause_n at_o all_o nor_o hurt_v we_o any_o more_o than_o it_o hurt_v himself_o if_o this_o reason_n be_v good_a it_o be_v a_o church_n remedy_n therefore_o the_o congregationall_a church_n must_v be_v liable_a to_o censure_v for_o their_o offence_n than_o this_o reason_n be_v as_o good_a it_o be_v a_o church_n remedy_n therefore_o the_o class_n synod_n yea_o and_o the_o national_a church_n must_v be_v liable_a to_o censure_v for_o their_o offence_n but_o this_o latter_a at_o least_o for_o the_o national_a church_n our_o brother_n speak_v against_o and_o therefore_o he_o may_v not_o press_v nor_o urge_v the_o former_a if_o he_o or_o other_o shall_v say_v that_o this_o scripture_n contain_v a_o remedy_n even_o for_o a_o national_a church_n than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o a_o national_a church_n be_v not_o independent_a but_o depend_v upon_o the_o ecumenical_a but_o this_o our_o brother_n can_v say_v unless_o he_o will_v gainsay_v himself_o because_o he_o have_v already_o say_v the_o contrary_a and_o serious_o protest_v it_o wâ—â—h_v a_o very_o that_o very_o be_v can_v see_v what_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n can_v be_v in_o a_o general_a council_n only_o a_o mere_a doctrinal_a power_n in_o all_o the_o power_n that_o he_o can_v see_v in_o such_o a_o council_n pag._n 482._o so_o that_o let_v he_o hold_v to_o what_o he_o have_v thus_o serious_o protest_v and_o this_o rule_n of_o christ_n afford_v no_o remedy_n by_o way_n of_o censure_n for_o the_o scandal_n of_o a_o national_a church_n beside_o if_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o a_o general_a council_n be_v establish_v by_o our_o saviour_n in_o this_o or_o other_o scripture_n than_o it_o will_v not_o only_o follow_v that_o the_o independent_a jurisdiction_n of_o national_a church_n yea_o and_o much_o more_o of_o class_n and_o synod_n be_v overthrow_v which_o i_o suppose_v our_o brethren_n will_v not_o grant_v but_o moreover_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o christ_n have_v not_o sufficient_o provide_v church_n remedy_n for_o redress_v scandalis_n of_o church_n member_n the_o reason_n of_o the_o consequence_n be_v because_o all_o other_o jurisdiction_n be_v subordinate_a one_o to_o anâ—ther_n and_o all_o of_o they_o under_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o the_o general_a council_n which_o alone_o be_v supreme_a there_o may_v therefore_o in_o all_o of_o they_o be_v appeal_n from_o the_o inferior_a to_o the_o high_a judicatory_n till_o at_o the_o last_o â—atters_n and_o cause_n be_v transmit_v from_o they_o all_o to_o the_o general_a council_n and_o so_o by_o this_o mean_n matter_n shall_v or_o may_v never_o be_v end_v nor_o scandal_n remedy_v till_o a_o general_a council_n shall_v effect_v the_o same_o which_o general_a counsel_n all_o know_v be_v rare_a and_o difficult_a to_o be_v attainâ—_n 〈◊〉_d and_o therefore_o there_o be_v small_a sufficiency_n in_o our_o saviour_n remedy_n if_o matter_n may_v or_o must_v depend_v till_o general_a counsel_n shall_v be_v assemble_v for_o the_o hear_n and_o determine_v thereof_o and_o may_v not_o be_v end_v sconer_n therefore_o we_o can_v see_v that_o this_o rule_n nor_o any_o other_o establish_v the_o jurisdiction_n of_o general_a couâ—cels_n and_o then_o national_a church_n can_v have_v no_o benefit_n of_o our_o saviour_n remedy_n of_o tell_v the_o church_n no_o more_o than_o the_o church_n which_o be_v congregationall_a and_o so_o whether_o be_v the_o say_n universal_o true_a that_o where_o there_o may_v be_v offence_n commit_v there_o our_o saviour_n remedy_n of_o tell_v the_o church_n may_v be_v apply_v for_o the_o redress_n thereof_o nor_o do_v this_o say_n hold_v be_v narrow_v according_a to_o mr._n rutherford_n mind_n who_o will_v have_v it_o understand_v only_o of_o a_o church_n remedy_n for_o the_o offence_n of_o church_n member_n for_o we_o see_v there_o may_v be_v offence_n in_o church_n according_a to_o our_o brethren_n judgement_n which_o can_v be_v redress_v by_o the_o help_n and_o remedy_n of_o this_o rule_n chap._n xxii_o when_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n be_v a_o profess_a cure_v to_o religion_n whether_o then_o it_o be_v likely_a and_o usual_a that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o people_n be_v sincere_o religious_a and_o whether_o when_o the_o great_a part_n be_v enemy_n with_o their_o magistrate_n it_o be_v then_o the_o duty_n of_o a_o few_o that_o be_v sincere_a to_o assemble_v in_o a_o national_a synod_n and_o there_o to_o enter_v into_o a_o national_a covenant_n and_o also_o to_o enjoin_v the_o same_o unto_o that_o great_a part_n pag_n 483._o we_o say_v that_o if_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n to_o religion_n may_v not_o the_o church_n without_o he_o conveen_v and_o renew_v a_o covenant_n with_o god_n mr._n mather_n and_o mr._n tompsons_n answer_n p._n 29._o that_n if_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n to_o religion_n it_o be_v not_o like_a but_o most_o or_o many_o of_o the_o people_n will_v be_v of_o the_o same_o mind_n regis_fw-la ad_fw-la exemplum_fw-la totus_fw-la and_o then_o the_o 〈◊〉_d in_o the_o land_n with_o not_o be_v able_a to_o bear_v the_o name_n of_o the_o land_n or_o nation_n but_o of_o a_o small_a part_n thereof_o not_o can_v it_o be_v well_o contain_v how_o they_o shall_v assemble_v in_o a_o national_a synod_n for_o that_o or_o any_o other_o purpose_n when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o profess_a enemy_n nor_o do_v god_n require_v it_o at_o their_o hand_n answ_n the_o question_n between_o mr._n hefle_n and_o we_o as_o it_o be_v speak_v to_o by_o we_o in_o this_o passage_n be_v still_o about_o the_o meaning_n of_o our_o saviour_n word_n tell_v the_o church_n which_o will_v plain_o appear_v to_o he_o that_o shall_v look_v upon_o mr._n herles_a treatise_n and_o our_o answer_n and_o compare_v they_o together_o and_o though_o we_o speak_v something_o of_o the_o church_n renew_v a_o a_o covenant_n with_o god_n when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n to_o religion_n yet_o the_o question_n lie_v not_o mere_o so_o and_o no_o further_o but_o first_o this_o church_n be_v call_v the_o land_n or_o the_o whole_a church_n therein_o or_o the_o whole_a number_n of_o believer_n second_o the_o thing_n inquire_v into_o concern_v this_o church_n be_v whether_o they_o have_v not_o power_n to_o enjoin_v a_o solemn_a renewall_n of_o the_o covenant_n in_o answer_v whereto_o we_o first_o of_o all_o say_v that_o in_o case_n the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n to_o religion_n the_o believer_n in_o the_o land_n be_v not_o like_a to_o be_v so_o many_o as_o that_o they_o shall_v bear_v the_o name_n of_o the_o land_n or_o nation_n but_o of_o a_o small_a part_n therein_o second_o that_o in_o such_o case_n it_o be_v not_o like_a they_o can_v have_v such_o liberty_n as_o safe_o to_o meet_v in_o such_o great_a assembly_n as_o national_a synod_n and_o hereupon_o we_o conclude_v that_o renew_n of_o covenant_n and_o enjoin_v the_o same_o in_o national_a synod_n be_v not_o in_o the_o power_n of_o some_o few_o believer_n in_o a_o land_n be_v not_o then_o require_v at_o their_o hand_n this_o be_v say_v for_o clear_v the_o scope_n and_o sum_n of_o that_o passage_n in_o the_o answer_n let_v we_o now_o hear_v what_o mr._n rutherford_n say_v thereto_o this_o say_v he_o be_v a_o weak_a answer_n answ_n sit_v magistrabiter_n will_v it_o not_o do_v well_o first_o to_o disprove_v and_o confute_v and_o then_o to_o censure_v rather_o than_o to_o censure_v first_o but_o if_o it_o be_v so_o weak_a it_o will_v be_v more_o easy_a to_o overthrow_v it_o let_v we_o hear_v therefore_o why_o it_o be_v so_o weak_a the_o christian_n under_o nero_n be_v not_o like_o their_o prince_n and_o it_o be_v not_o like_a but_o sincere_a christian_n will_v be_v sincere_a christian_n and_o profess_v truth_n even_o when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n answ_n and_o what_o of_o this_o do_v this_o strong_o overthrow_v that_o say_n which_o be_v censure_v
for_o so_o weak_a if_o sincere_a christian_n be_v sincere_a christian_n when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n suppose_v as_o bad_a as_o nero_n do_v it_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o in_o such_o time_n the_o sincere_a christian_n will_v be_v so_o many_o in_o number_n as_o to_o bear_v the_o name_n of_o the_o land_n or_o nation_n where_o they_o be_v for_o there_o lie_v the_o question_n and_o that_o it_o be_v not_o like_a to_o be_v otherwise_o i_o suppose_v no_o man_n can_v just_o affirm_v it_o for_o be_v they_o so_o many_o in_o england_n in_o the_o day_n of_o queen_n mary_n be_v they_o so_o many_o in_o scotland_n in_o the_o day_n of_o popish_a prince_n afore_o the_o reformation_n be_v they_o so_o many_o in_o spain_n in_o italy_n in_o turkey_n at_o this_o day_n do_v not_o the_o scripture_n say_v that_o when_o rehoboam_n forsake_v the_o lord_n all_o israel_n do_v the_o same_o with_o he_o 2_o chron._n 12._o 1._o and_o that_o jeroboam_fw-la do_v not_o only_a sin_n but_o make_v israel_n to_o sin_n and_o that_o when_o a_o ruler_n hearken_v to_o lie_n all_o his_o servant_n be_v wicked_a prov._n 29._o vers_fw-la 12._o which_o saying_n and_o many_o more_o that_o may_v be_v allege_v beside_o common_a experience_n do_v abundant_o witness_v that_o when_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n to_o religion_n often_o time_n if_o not_o always_o sincere_a believer_n in_o those_o day_n be_v the_o small_a part_n of_o that_o land_n if_o m._n rutherford_n can_v prove_v this_o apprehension_n weak_a he_o must_v then_o prove_v the_o contradictory_n to_o be_v true_a viz._n that_o when_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n to_o religion_n it_o be_v not_o like_a that_o many_o of_o the_o people_n will_v be_v of_o the_o magistrate_n mind_n but_o contrary_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o land_n will_v be_v sincere_a believer_n though_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n and_o when_o he_o have_v confirm_v this_o position_n which_o strong_a and_o convince_a proof_n he_o may_v then_o more_o free_o take_v his_o liberty_n to_o condemn_v the_o other_o for_o weak_a in_o the_o mean_a time_n i_o think_v it_o be_v weakness_n in_o we_o to_o depart_v from_o this_o apprehension_n without_o some_o better_a ground_n than_o yet_o be_v give_v to_o discover_v the_o weakness_n of_o it_o 2._o say_v he_o if_o your_o meaning_n be_v it_o can_v be_v conceive_v how_o they_o shall_v assemble_v in_o a_o national_a assembly_n when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n because_o it_o be_v not_o safe_a for_o fear_v of_o persecution_n than_o you_o say_v nothing_o to_o the_o argument_n because_o the_o argument_n be_v draw_v from_o a_o duty_n answ_n be_v those_o thing_n duty_n which_o be_v in_o nature_n impossible_a if_o not_o how_o be_v it_o a_o duty_n of_o a_o few_o believer_n in_o a_o land_n for_o when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o profess_a enemy_n i_o do_v still_o conceive_v the_o believer_n in_o that_o land_n to_o be_v but_o few_o a_o small_a part_n of_o the_o land_n how_o be_v it_o a_o duty_n i_o say_v for_o these_o few_o believer_n in_o a_o land_n to_o assemble_v in_o a_o national_a synod_n and_o there_o to_o enjoin_v a_o national_a covenant_n to_o be_v enter_v into_o not_o only_o by_o themselves_o which_o be_v but_o a_o few_o in_o comparison_n but_o also_o by_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o land_n which_o be_v far_o the_o great_a number_n if_o this_o be_v a_o duty_n it_o be_v more_o than_o i_o yet_o understand_v suppose_v it_o be_v their_o duty_n to_o enter_v into_o covenant_n with_o god_n for_o their_o own_o part_n suppose_v also_o it_o be_v the_o duty_n of_o other_o to_o do_v the_o like_a yet_o when_o the_o great_a part_n will_v not_o so_o do_v but_o be_v enemy_n to_o the_o truth_n of_o god_n like_o their_o magistrate_n be_v it_o nevertheless_o a_o duty_n of_o this_o small_a number_n to_o assemble_v in_o a_o national_a synod_n and_o there_o to_o enjoin_v a_o solemn_a covenant_n to_o be_v take_v by_o the_o land_n i_o mean_v not_o only_o by_o themselves_o but_o also_o by_o other_o who_o be_v far_o more_o in_o number_n than_o they_o do_v they_o fall_v short_a of_o their_o duty_n if_o they_o do_v not_o thus_o assemble_v and_o impose_v the_o covenant_n in_o the_o day_n of_o jeroboam_fw-la when_o the_o generality_n of_o the_o land_n walk_v after_o his_o wicked_a commandment_n hos_fw-la 5._o 11._o who_o make_v israel_n to_o sin_n yet_o then_o there_o be_v some_o in_o israel_n who_o retain_v their_o integrity_n and_o set_v their_o heart_n to_o seek_v the_o lord_n who_o also_o for_o that_o end_n come_v to_o jerusalem_n to_o sacrifice_v to_o the_o lord_n god_n of_o their_o father_n 2_o chron._n 11._o v_o 16._o but_o i_o do_v not_o remember_v that_o these_o few_o that_o be_v sincere_a in_o worship_n do_v ever_o come_v together_o in_o a_o national_a assembly_n in_o israel_n to_o renew_v the_o covenant_n with_o god_n and_o to_o enjoin_v the_o same_o to_o that_o great_a multitude_n of_o the_o backslide_a israelite_n nor_o that_o such_o a_o duty_n be_v require_v of_o they_o nor_o that_o they_o be_v blame_v by_o 〈◊〉_d lord_n nor_o any_o of_o his_o prophet_n for_o the_o neglect_n thereof_o and_o the_o case_n we_o have_v in_o stand_n be_v the_o same_o if_o you_o mean_v that_o because_o the_o prince_n power_n be_v against_o the_o synodical_a meeting_n this_o be_v nothing_o against_o the_o power_n of_o the_o synod_n that_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o his_o church_n answ_n we_o mean_v as_o we_o have_v say_v that_o those_o few_o believer_n in_o a_o land_n be_v overpower_v with_o the_o prince_n and_o people_n that_o be_v enemy_n therefore_o this_o assemble_v of_o those_o few_o in_o a_o national_a synod_n and_o there_o enjoin_v a_o national_a covenant_n be_v now_o not_o in_o their_o power_n and_o so_o not_o require_v at_o their_o hand_n if_o your_o meaning_n be_v that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o they_o to_o conveen_n in_o a_o national_a synod_n to_o renew_v a_o covenant_n with_o god_n against_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n will_v i_o hope_v you_o mind_n no_o such_o thing_n answ_n if_o it_o be_v our_o meaning_n how_o can_v it_o be_v hope_v that_o we_o do_v not_o mind_v it_o can_v our_o â—â—â—â—ing_n be_v one_o thing_n and_o our_o mind_n another_o but_o for_o his_o satisfaction_n and_o resolution_n 〈◊〉_d plain_a answer_n be_v this_o that_o we_o neither_o have_v mind_n nor_o meaning_n to_o meddle_v at_o all_o with_o that_o question_n whether_o church_n may_v assemble_v in_o national_a synod_n against_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n will_n for_o we_o do_v not_o think_v that_o mr._n herles_a treatise_n do_v lead_v we_o thereunto_o 〈…〉_z such_o a_o matter_n nor_o be_o i_o willing_a at_o this_o time_n to_o turn_v aside_o to_o the_o same_o but_o to_o keep_v close_o to_o my_o scope_n and_o aim_n which_o be_v to_o consider_v of_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o exception_n against_o the_o answer_n and_o therefore_o for_o his_o discourse_n which_o here_o he_o fall_v upon_o maintain_v at_o large_a against_o malignant_n and_o namely_o against_o tho_n fuller_n that_o the_o reformation_n begin_v in_o scotland_n and_o prosecute_v in_o england_n against_o the_o king_n will_v be_v lawful_a and_o warrantable_a by_o the_o wordâ—_n this_o discourse_n i_o say_v be_v altogether_o concern_v other_o and_o not_o we_o i_o will_v therefore_o pass_v it_o over_o and_o come_v to_o that_o wherein_o ourselves_o be_v concern_v chap._n xxiii_o whether_o the_o word_n church_n be_v not_o give_v to_o a_o single_a congregation_n and_o whether_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o company_n or_o church_n meet_v only_o for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n and_o not_o for_o any_o other_o spiritual_a duty_n and_o whether_o the_o divers_a duty_n 1._o of_o word_n and_o sacrament_n 2._o of_o discipline_n etc._n etc._n must_v needs_o argue_v divers_a church_n pag_n 489._o the_o name_n church_n 1_o cor._n 14._o 4_o 5_o 35._o 27_o 28._o be_v plain_o give_v to_o that_o company_n that_o do_v assemble_v and_o come_v together_o for_o performance_n of_o spiritual_a duty_n and_o for_o the_o exercise_n of_o spiritual_a gift_n as_o act._n 14._o 27._o and_o 11._o 26._o and_o 15._o 4._o 22._o 30._o and_o 1_o cor._n 11._o 18_o 20_o 22_o 23_o 3_o john_n 6._o which_o place_n do_v abundant_o show_v that_o a_o company_n gather_v together_o in_o one_o place_n be_v call_v by_o the_o name_n of_o a_o church_n as_o centhera_n rom._n 16._o 1._o which_o can_v not_o contain_v many_o congregation_n be_v but_o the_o part_n of_o corinth_n and_o for_o this_o passage_n he_o allege_v the_o answer_n pag._n 32._o answ_n mr._n herle_n have_v say_v that_o the_o scripture_n never_o use_v the_o word_n church_n for_o a_o single_a congregation_n unless_o happy_o 1_o cor._n 14._o and_o that_o many_o congregation_n in_o one_o province_n or_o city_n be_v
to_o end_v their_o maâ—â—ers_n if_o they_o be_v able_a extempt_v they_o from_o be_v under_o the_o command_n of_o other_o hoshoulder_n have_v right_a to_o govern_v and_o order_v their_o family_n if_o so_o be_v that_o they_o be_v able_a do_v it_o follow_v therefore_o that_o superior_n in_o church_n or_o civil_a state_n have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v householder_n to_o do_v their_o duty_n herein_o but_o only_o to_o give_v counsel_n and_o advise_v or_o if_o housholdere_fw-la have_v such_o right_n do_v it_o follow_v that_o therefore_o they_o be_v under_o no_o command_n in_o church_n and_o commonwealth_n i_o suppose_v it_o will_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o or_o shall_v we_o say_v that_o class_n and_o provincial_n synod_n have_v no_o right_a to_o end_v their_o own_o matter_n within_o themselves_o if_o a_o national_n synod_n have_v power_n to_o command_v they_o or_o if_o they_o have_v such_o right_n shall_v we_o therefore_o say_v they_o be_v not_o under_o the_o command_n of_o the_o national_n synod_n and_o that_o the_o national_n synod_n have_v no_o power_n over_o they_o but_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v we_o suppose_v master_n rutherford_n will_v not_o say_v so_o and_o yet_o he_o may_v as_o well_o say_v it_o as_o say_v as_o he_o he_o do_v that_o because_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o â—nd_v she_o own_o matter_n if_o they_o be_v able_a therefore_o a_o synod_n have_v no_o power_n but_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v and_o though_o the_o synod_n be_v to_o give_v counsel_n and_o advise_v which_o be_v the_o other_o ground_n whereon_o the_o conclusy_a afore_v mention_v seem_v to_o be_v build_v yet_o neither_o will_v master_n rutherford_n his_o conclusâ—on_n that_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v follow_v from_o thence_o at_o all_o for_o who_o know_v not_o that_o counsel_n and_o advise_v may_v be_v administer_v and_o give_v by_o they_o who_o have_v also_o power_n to_o command_v not_o every_o one_o indeed_o as_o may_v advise_v and_o counsel_n may_v forth_o with_o command_n and_o enjoin_v nevertheless_o counsel_n and_o command_n be_v not_o so_o repugnant_a but_o that_o they_o who_o may_v command_v may_v also_o advise_v paul_n have_v power_n to_o command_v and_o enjoin_v phylâ—mon_a to_o do_v what_o be_v convenient_a and_o yet_o for_o love_n sake_n will_v rather_o beseech_v he_o philem_n 8._o 9_o the_o lord_n jesus_n to_o doubt_n have_v absolute_a authority_n to_o command_v and_o yet_o we_o find_v he_o sometime_o speak_v to_o the_o son_n of_o man_n by_o way_n of_o counsel_n or_o advise_v revel_v 3._o â—8_o i_o counsel_v thou_o to_o buy_v of_o i_o gold_n that_o thou_o may_v he_o rich_a etc._n etc._n shall_v we_o now_o infer_v from_o hence_o that_o the_o power_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v and_o that_o his_o power_n can_v amount_v to_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o command_n i_o suppose_v we_o will_v be_v afraid_a and_o abhor_v to_o deduce_v such_o a_o consequence_n and_o therefore_o though_o a_o synod_n may_v advise_v yet_o their_o power_n to_o command_v which_o be_v more_o than_o mere_a counsel_n and_o advise_v be_v not_o from_o thence_o conclude_v to_o be_v null_a and_o so_o much_o for_o master_n rutherford_n his_o second_o place_n wherein_o he_o deal_v against_o the_o answer_n chap._n iii_o of_o the_o assembly_n act._n 15._o whether_o they_o do_v exercise_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n against_o the_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n and_o whether_o their_o rebuke_v of_o they_o do_v argue_v the_o affirmative_a in_o his_o page_n 388._o he_o lay_v down_o this_o as_o a_o 2d._o object_n viz._n that_o there_o be_v no_o censure_v of_o person_n for_o scandal_n and_o that_o meeting_n act_n 15._o because_o there_o be_v nothing_o there_o but_o a_o doctrinal_a declaration_n of_o the_o falsehood_n of_o their_o opinion_n who_o teach_v the_o necessity_n of_o circumcision_n and_o that_o all_o be_v do_v by_o way_n of_o doctrine_n and_o by_o power_n of_o the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n not_o of_o jurisdiction_n be_v clear_a from_o the_o end_n of_o the_o meeting_n which_o be_v verse_n 2_o &_o 6._o to_o consider_v of_o that_o question_n consideration_n of_o question_n be_v the_o end_n of_o the_o synod_n be_v a_o thing_n belong_v to_o doctrinal_a power_n mere_o and_o then_o he_o subjoin_v my_o name_n and_o in_o the_o margin_n allege_v the_o answer_n chap._n 1._o page_n 8._o ans_fw-fr whereto_o i_o first_o of_o all_o return_n this_o answer_n first_o that_o the_o thing_n here_o in_o question_n be_v about_o the_o power_n of_o that_o meeting_n act_v 15._o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o place_n allege_v by_o master_n rutherford_n that_o can_v warrant_v he_o to_o frame_v such_o a_o objection_n under_o master_n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o as_o proceed_v from_o we_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o that_o meeting_n act_v 15_o be_v not_o mention_v at_o all_o in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v neither_o for_o that_o purpose_n which_o he_o set_v down_o nor_o for_o any_o other_o much_o loss_n be_v the_o objection_n we_o in_o terminis_fw-la now_o to_o frame_v a_o objection_n and_o to_o allege_v chapter_n and_o page_n for_o proof_n that_o the_o objection_n be_v we_o when_o as_o neither_o page_n nor_o chapter_n aleadge_v do_v speak_v any_o thing_n at_o all_o of_o that_o matter_n what_o reason_n can_v be_v give_v for_o this_o i_o know_v not_o nevertheless_o because_o the_o matter_n contain_v in_o the_o objection_n do_v not_o much_o differ_v from_o my_o apprehension_n and_o judgement_n and_o something_o in_o the_o answer_n elsewhere_o may_v possible_o intimate_v such_o a_o thing_n though_o but_o brief_o touch_v i_o will_v therefore_o consider_v of_o what_o he_o say_v for_o remove_v the_o objection_n as_o himself_o have_v propound_v the_o same_o it_o be_v false_a say_v he_o that_o there_o be_v no_o censure_v of_o person_n here_o for_o it_o be_v more_o than_o evident_a that_o the_o public_a synodical_a censure_n of_o rebuke_n be_v put_v upon_o those_o who_o hold_v and_o urge_v the_o necessity_n of_o circumcision_n and_o why_o not_o excommunication_n also_o in_o case_n of_o obstinacy_n for_o the_o synodical_a censure_n of_o a_o public_a synodical_a rebuke_n be_v only_o gradual_o different_a not_o specifical_o from_o excommunication_n &_o both_o must_v proceed_v from_o ouâ—_n &_o the_o same_o power_n so_o then_o the_o sum_n be_v the_o synod_n have_v power_n of_o rebuke_v and_o therefore_o of_o excommunication_n also_o answ_n the_o consequence_n be_v not_o clear_a for_o who_o know_v not_o that_o there_o may_v be_v power_n to_o rebuke_v where_o there_o be_v no_o power_n of_o excommunication_n be_v it_o not_o the_o express_a law_n of_o god_n that_o every_o man_n shall_v plain_o rebuke_v his_o neighbour_n and_o not_o suffer_v sin_n upon_o he_o levit._n 19_o 17_o and_o be_v not_o our_o 〈◊〉_d word_n as_o plain_a if_o thy_o brother_n trespasle_n against_o thou_o rebuke_v he_o and_o if_o he_o repent_v forgive_v he_o luke_n 17._o 3_o whereby_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o one_o particular_a person_n have_v power_n by_o the_o law_n of_o god_n and_o christ_n to_o put_v a_o rebuke_n upon_o another_o if_o there_o be_v occasion_n for_o it_o but_o will_v it_o follow_v hereupon_o that_o one_o particular_a christian_a have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v another_o in_o case_n of_o obstinacy_n i_o suppose_v master_n rutherford_n will_v not_o say_v so_o and_o yet_o unless_o this_o be_v say_v i_o know_v not_o how_o his_o consequence_n can_v be_v make_v good_a that_o if_o a_o synod_n may_v rebuke_v they_o may_v excommunicate_v also_o i_o know_v indeed_o he_o say_v the_o synodical_a rebuke_n be_v only_o gradual_o different_a from_o excommunication_n and_o not_o specifical_o and_o that_o both_o must_v proceed_v from_o one_o and_o the_o same_o power_n but_o this_o will_v require_v some_o proof_n and_o shall_v not_o naked_o be_v affirm_v without_o any_o proof_n at_o all_o for_o of_o itself_o it_o be_v not_o evident_a that_o where_o â—ver_o there_o be_v power_n to_o rebuke_v there_o be_v power_n of_o excommunication_n also_o the_o contrary_n i_o suppose_v be_v evident_a from_o that_o which_o have_v already_o be_v say_v from_o levit._n 19_o 17._o and_o luke_n 17._o 3._o and_o from_o many_o other_o scripture_n and_o reason_n which_o show_v that_o one_o man_n alone_o have_v power_n to_o rebuke_v who_o can_v for_o that_o be_v conclude_v to_o have_v any_o power_n of_o excommunication_n i_o know_v the_o learned_a mâ—n_z be_v copious_a in_o prove_v from_o the_o word_n of_o verse_n 24._o certain_a man_n go_v from_o we_o and_o have_v trouble_v you_o with_o word_n subvert_v your_o soul_n etc._n etc._n that_o this_o assembly_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n confute_v the_o false_a opinion_n and_o doctrine_n of_o these_o teacher_n of_o
mr._n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o and_o chap._n 1._o page_n 9_o of_o the_o answer_n he_o say_v we_o there_o teach_v that_o there_o be_v a_o power_n of_o clear_n truth_n dogmatical_o &_o that_o ultimate_o where_o the_o controversy_n be_v end_v but_o he_o say_v we_o will_v have_v this_o vltimate_a power_n not_o in_o a_o synod_n only_o but_o also_o in_o a_o congregation_n and_o then_o no_o answer_v three_o thing_n which_o there_o ensue_v answ_n our_o word_n be_v these_o by_o power_n of_o decree_n we_o understand_v power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n dogmatical_o for_o the_o word_n translate_v decree_n be_v dogmata_fw-la in_o the_o original_a act._n 16._o 4._o and_o this_o power_n we_o confess_v be_v in_o a_o synod_n though_o not_o all_o in_o a_o synod_n alone_o but_o also_o in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n now_o these_o bring_v our_o word_n if_o therefore_o this_o reverend_a brother_n will_v overthrow_v our_o tenent_n in_o this_o particular_a he_o shall_v have_v prove_v that_o there_o be_v not_o any_o power_n as_o all_o in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n dogmatical_o this_o indeed_o have_v be_v direct_o contrary_a to_o what_o we_o teach_v but_o this_o be_v neither_o prove_v nor_o once_o attempt_v to_o prove_v and_o therefore_o our_o tenent_n herein_o do_v yet_o stand_v good_a for_o any_o thing_n he_o have_v say_v to_o the_o contrary_n and_o no_o marvel_n siâ—h_v the_o express_a word_n of_o the_o text_n do_v witness_v that_o every_o bishop_n have_v power_n and_o be_v boand_v by_o his_o office_n and_o duty_n by_o sound_a doctrine_n both_o to_o exhort_v and_o convince_v gainsayet_n tit._n 1._o 9_o and_o according_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n do_v labour_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o controversy_n about_o circumcision_n and_o have_v much_o disputation_n about_o it_o among_o themselves_o afore_o there_o be_v any_o speech_n of_o send_v to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_v act._n 15._o 2._o which_o show_v that_o they_o have_v power_n or_o right_a to_o have_v clear_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n have_v serve_v or_o else_o this_o endeavour_n have_v be_v sinful_a as_o be_v a_o attempt_v to_o do_v that_o whereto_o they_o have_v no_o right_n so_o that_o for_o aught_o we_o yet_o so_o the_o power_n that_o we_o speak_v of_o and_o which_o we_o hold_v to_o be_v in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o congregation_n be_v there_o indeed_o by_o the_o appointment_n of_o the_o lord_n but_o let_v we_o hear_v master_n rutherford_n answer_v first_o say_v he_o they_o seem_v to_o make_v this_o dogmatic_a power_n a_o church_n power_n and_o the_o exercise_n thereof_o formal_o a_o act_n of_o church_n government_n and_o so_o it_o must_v be_v church_n power_n and_o church_n government_n in_o the_o synod_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o congregation_n answ_n whence_o do_v it_o seem_v that_o we_o do_v so_o make_v it_o be_v there_o any_o such_o word_n as_o here_o he_o set_v down_o or_o any_o word_n equivalent_a thereto_o or_o do_v the_o place_n make_v any_o mention_n of_o church-power_n and_o church_n government_n at_o all_o or_o be_v there_o so_o much_o as_o one_o word_n that_o look_v that_o way_n if_o there_o be_v let_v our_o brother_n say_v that_o we_o seem_v to_o â—each_v as_o he_o do_v report_n but_o if_o there_o be_v not_o we_o be_v sorry_a he_o shall_v report_v we_o to_o teach_v oâ—_n seem_v to_o teach_v that_o which_o to_o our_o remembrance_n we_o never_o say_v nor_o think_v and_o sure_o it_o be_v we_o have_v express_o say_v the_o direct_a contrary_n in_o page_n 7_o the_o page_n next_o save_v one_o afore_o this_o which_o here_o he_o be_v deal_v against_o where_o we_o have_v these_o word_n it_o seem_v to_o we_o say_v we_o that_o this_o power_n viz._n by_o disquisition_n and_o disputation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n and_o then_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o be_v not_o proper_o a_o power_n and_o exercise_v of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n but_o a_o power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o so_o a_o synod_n be_v rather_o a_o teach_n then_o a_o govern_v church_n these_o be_v our_o word_n in_o the_o page_n afore_o allege_a wherein_o we_o plain_o express_v what_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n seem_v unto_o we_o to_o be_v even_o the_o direct_a contrary_a to_o that_o which_o he_o say_v we_o seem_v to_o make_v it_o we_o on_o the_o one_o side_n affirm_v and_o express_v that_o it_o seem_v to_o we_o the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n be_v no_o power_n of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n but_o a_o power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o he_o on_o the_o other_o side_n report_v that_o we_o seem_v to_o make_v the_o exercise_n of_o dogmatic_a power_n to_o be_v formal_o a_o act_n of_o church-government_n and_o so_o to_o place_v church-government_n in_o the_o synod_n in_o which_o report_n we_o must_v needs_o say_v we_o be_v plain_o misreported_n his_o second_o answer_n be_v this_o the_o last_o period_n and_o conclusion_n of_o the_o controversy_n can_v be_v both_o in_o the_o congregation_n by_o right_a only_o and_o in_o the_o synod_n by_o right_a only_o for_o two_o last_o power_n can_v be_v proper_o in_o two_o subordinate_a judicature_n answ_n this_o be_v very_o true_a but_o it_o touch_v not_o we_o at_o all_o for_o we_o never_o say_v the_o last_o period_n of_o the_o controversy_n be_v both_o in_o the_o congregation_n only_o and_o in_o the_o synod_n only_o if_o we_o have_v so_o say_v let_v the_o place_n be_v produce_v where_o we_o have_v say_v it_o for_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v do_v afford_v we_o no_o such_o thing_n nor_o any_o place_n else_o that_o we_o know_v of_o all_o that_o the_o place_n afford_v concern_v this_o point_n be_v only_o this_o that_o there_o be_v a_o power_n of_o clear_n the_o truth_n dogmatical_o in_o a_o synod_n though_o not_o in_o a_o synod_n only_o but_o also_o in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n and_o this_o doctrine_n i_o hope_v our_o brother_n will_v not_o deny_v but_o whether_o this_o power_n be_v last_o in_o the_o synod_n or_o in_o the_o congregationall_a presbytery_n of_o this_o we_o do_v not_o speak_v at_o all_o much_o less_o do_v we_o say_v as_o he_o do_v apprehend_v and_o report_v that_o this_o power_n be_v both_o last_o in_o the_o synod_n and_o last_o in_o the_o congregation_n too_o wherefore_o our_o defence_n in_o this_o particular_a must_v needs_o be_v this_o that_o what_o here_o he_o confute_v to_o be_v out_v be_v such_o a_o thing_n as_o never_o fall_v from_o our_o mouth_n or_o pen_n nor_o for_o aught_o we_o know_v do_v never_o enter_v into_o our_o thought_n three_o he_o say_v if_o a_o controversy_n concern_v many_o congregation_n as_o this_o do_v act._n 15._o i_o see_v not_o how_o a_o congregation_n except_o they_o transgress_v their_o line_n can_v final_o determine_v it_o answ_n neither_o do_v this_o touch_v we_o except_o we_o have_v say_v that_o a_o congregation_n may_v final_o determine_v controversy_n which_o concern_v many_o church_n which_o yet_o we_o have_v not_o say_v as_o for_o that_o controversy_n act._n 15._o it_o be_v plain_a from_o verse_n 2_o that_o antioch_n do_v endeavour_v to_o have_v end_v it_o among_o themselves_o so_o far_o as_o they_o be_v trouble_v therewith_o for_o some_o teach_n that_o corrupt_a doctrine_n among_o they_o they_o have_v much_o disputation_n about_o the_o point_n afore_o they_o determine_v to_o send_v out_o for_o help_v elsewhere_o now_o to_o what_o end_n be_v thus_o much_o disputation_n if_o they_o have_v no_o right_a to_o determine_v the_o matter_n may_v they_o not_o better_o have_v spare_v their_o pain_n or_o do_v they_o not_o transgress_v their_o line_n in_o attempt_v what_o they_o do_v attempt_v sure_o it_o seem_v they_o do_v if_o they_o have_v not_o right_a to_o determine_v the_o matter_n but_o for_o our_o part_n since_o we_o do_v not_o find_v they_o in_o the_o least_o reprove_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n for_o this_o attempt_n therefore_o we_o can_v but_o think_v they_o do_v well_o therein_o and_o thereupon_o it_o follow_v that_o if_o antioch_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n as_o it_o seem_v to_o we_o it_o be_v from_o act._n 14._o 27._o either_o this_o controversy_n do_v trouble_v no_o church_n but_o antioch_n only_o or_o else_o when_o a_o controversy_n or_o corrupt_a opinion_n do_v trouble_v many_o church_n one_o of_o they_o may_v lawful_o determine_v and_o end_v it_o so_o far_o at_o it_o concern_v themselves_o chap._n v._n again_o of_o that_o assembly_n act._n 15._o whether_o their_o rebuke_v the_o false_a teacher_n do_v prove_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o excommunication_n in_o synod_n and_o whether_o preach_v do_v prove_v the_o assembly_n where_o it_o be_v to_o be_v a_o church_n the_o new_a place_n where_o i_o find_v he_o except_v
of_o the_o great_a necessity_n of_o discipline_n then_o of_o sacrament_n his_o word_n be_v these_o there_o be_v no_o such_o moral_a necessity_n of_o sacrament_n as_o there_o be_v of_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o word_n and_o consequent_o of_o the_o use_n of_o the_o key_n where_o a_o scandalous_a person_n may_v infect_v the_o lord_n flock_n for_o where_o vision_n cease_v the_o people_n perish_v but_o it_o be_v never_o say_v where_o baptism_n cease_v the_o people_n perish_v pag._n 455._o answ_n how_o shall_v we_o be_v sure_a that_o by_o vision_n prov._n 26._o 18._o be_v mean_v discipline_n yea_o discipline_n not_o in_o a_o large_a sense_n as_o comprehend_v general_o all_o order_n and_o behaviour_n concern_v a_o church_n and_o outward_a duty_n therein_o but_o discipline_n strict_o take_v for_o administration_n of_o censure_n for_o of_o this_o be_v one_o question_n how_o i_o say_v shall_v we_o be_v sure_a that_o by_o vision_n be_v mean_v this_o discipline_n the_o usual_a expositor_n tremeliâ—â—_n and_o junius_n 〈…〉_z and_o other_o do_v expound_v the_o same_o of_o the_o preach_a and_o dispense_n of_o the_o word_n make_v no_o mention_n at_o all_o of_o discipline_n as_o mean_v thereby_o and_o the_o 〈◊〉_d branch_n of_o the_o verse_n he_o â—hat_n keep_v the_o law_n be_v bless_v do_v â—hew_v that_o by_o vision_n in_o the_o former_a branch_n be_v mean_v the_o law_n or_o doctrine_n or_o word_n of_o god_n and_o if_o the_o scripture_n do_v not_o sâ—y_v where_o baptism_n cease_v the_o people_n perish_v yet_o neither_o do_v it_o say_v where_o administration_n of_o censure_n cease_v the_o people_n perish_v and_o therefore_o no_o necessity_n of_o censure_n above_o sacrament_n can_v be_v conclude_v hence_o uncalled_a minister_n in_o case_n of_o necessity_n without_o ordination_n or_o call_n from_o a_o presbytery_n may_v preach_v and_o take_v on_o they_o the_o holy_a ministry_n and_o exercise_n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n because_o of_o the_o necessity_n of_o the_o soul_n of_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o remote_a island_n require_v so_o answ_n if_o they_o may_v do_v these_o thing_n without_o ordination_n as_o for_o my_o part_n i_o deny_v it_o not_o so_o that_o the_o election_n or_o consent_n of_o the_o congregation_n be_v not_o wanâ—ing_v for_o that_o i_o suppose_v may_v be_v a_o good_a part_n of_o a_o outward_a calling_n than_o i_o demand_v whether_o one_o minister_n alone_o may_v not_o thus_o do_v i_o mean_v whether_o one_o alone_o may_v not_o in_o the_o case_n propose_v take_v on_o he_o the_o holy_a ministry_n and_o preach_v the_o word_n as_o a_o minister_n if_o many_o may_v do_v it_o than_o i_o suppose_v there_o be_v no_o question_n but_o one_o may_v do_v it_o much_o rather_o and_o if_o so_o than_o i_o demand_v further_o whether_o such_o a_o single_a minister_n may_v not_o also_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n to_o such_o a_o congregation_n i_o suppose_v it_o can_v be_v deny_v for_o if_o he_o lawful_o take_v on_o he_o the_o ministry_n and_o preach_v as_o a_o minister_n what_o shall_v hinder_v but_o he_o may_v also_o baptise_v and_o minister_v the_o lord_n supper_n and_o if_o he_o may_v thus_o do_v than_o i_o demand_v last_o whether_o this_o single_a minister_n may_v also_o administer_v discipline_n and_o censure_n in_o that_o congregation_n if_o he_o may_v then_o either_o the_o power_n of_o those_o censure_n must_v be_v in_o himself_o alone_o or_o in_o the_o congregation_n also_o in_o himself_o alone_a it_o can_v be_v because_o censure_n must_v be_v dispense_v by_o a_o church_n and_o one_o man_n alone_o can_v be_v a_o church_n if_o it_o be_v in_o the_o congregation_n also_o then_o here_o be_v a_o power_n of_o excommunication_n or_o other_o censure_n even_o in_o the_o people_n which_o be_v against_o our_o brother_n judgement_n if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o this_o single_a minister_n as_o long_o as_o he_o wanâ—s_v other_o minister_n join_v with_o he_o may_v not_o administer_v censure_n or_o discipline_n than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o power_n of_o censure_n be_v not_o always_o annex_v to_o the_o ministry_n as_o a_o inseparable_a adjunct_n thereof_o nor_o be_v censure_n to_o be_v prefer_v before_o sacrament_n as_o more_o necessary_a as_o our_o brother_n will_v have_v it_o for_o as_o much_o as_o here_o be_v a_o ministry_n and_o the_o administer_a of_o sacrament_n the_o necessity_n of_o the_o soul_n of_o the_o congregation_n require_v so_o and_o yet_o for_o all_o this_o not_o any_o power_n of_o censure_n at_o all_o our_o brother_n therefore_o may_v make_v his_o choice_n whether_o he_o will_v grant_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n of_o discipline_n to_o be_v in_o the_o people_n or_o whether_o he_o will_v say_v the_o necessity_n of_o the_o soul_n in_o a_o congregation_n do_v require_v sacrament_n more_o than_o discipline_n for_o though_o these_o be_v both_o against_o himself_o yet_o upon_o the_o ground_n which_o himself_o do_v here_o lay_v the_o one_o of_o the_o two_o be_v unavoidable_a but_o i_o hope_v no_o necessity_n in_o any_o of_o the_o most_o extraordinary_a case_n require_v that_o a_o midwife_n may_v baptise_v or_o that_o a_o private_a man_n remain_v a_o private_a man_n may_v celebrate_v the_o lord_n supper_n to_o the_o church_n without_o any_o call_n from_o the_o church_n answ_n concern_v the_o midwife_n i_o think_v the_o same_o that_o he_o do_v and_o concern_v the_o private_a man_n i_o also_o therein_o â—â—curre_v that_o without_o call_v from_o the_o church_n he_o may_v not_o perform_v what_o here_o be_v speak_v of_o but_o here_o i_o will_v make_v this_o quare_fw-la whether_o 〈◊〉_d man_n that_o never_o be_v a_o minister_n may_v not_o as_o well_o in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n perform_v 〈◊〉_d act_n of_o administer_a of_o baptism_n or_o the_o lord_n supper_n without_o any_o call_n from_o the_o 〈◊〉_d bytery_n or_o the_o church_n unto_o who_o the_o office_n of_o ministry_n as_o take_v on_o he_o without_o any_o such_o call_n the_o whole_a ministry_n and_o so_o preach_v and_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n as_o a_o minister_n for_o as_o for_o the_o one_o of_o these_o our_o brother_n express_o grant_v a_o man_n mâ—y_o lawful_o take_v it_o on_o he_o without_o any_o such_o calling_n the_o necessity_n of_o the_o soul_n of_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o island_n require_v so_o and_o if_o this_o necessity_n will_v warrant_v the_o one_o which_o be_v the_o whole_a and_o so_o the_o great_a why_o will_v it_o not_o warrant_v the_o other_o which_o be_v but_o one_o act_n and_o so_o the_o lesser_a one_o will_v think_v one_o act_n of_o dispense_n baptism_n or_o the_o supper_n be_v a_o lesser_a matter_n than_o the_o whole_a ministry_n and_o all_o the_o action_n thereof_o and_o marvel_v it_o be_v that_o the_o necessity_n of_o the_o soul_n of_o a_o congregation_n shall_v warrant_v this_o which_o be_v the_o great_a and_o yet_o the_o same_o necessity_n shall_v not_o be_v sufficient_a warrant_n for_o the_o lesser_a a_o man_n calling_n be_v otherwise_o alike_o unto_o both_o that_o be_v have_v a_o outward_a call_n to_o neither_o himself_o do_v sometime_o reason_n thus_o if_o we_o give_v to_o believer_n that_o be_v not_o in_o office_n one_o pastoral_a act_n we_o may_v with_o the_o like_a weight_n of_o reason_n give_v they_o all_o peaceable_a plea_n page_n 272._o now_o if_o this_o reason_n be_v good_a from_o one_o act_n to_o all_o why_o be_v no_o this_o as_o good_a from_o all_o to_o any_o one_o or_o to_o some_o one_o and_o why_o may_v we_o not_o in_o like_a manner_n argue_v thus_o if_o person_n uncalled_a may_v without_o ordination_n or_o call_n take_v on_o they_o the_o whole_a ministry_n why_o may_v not_o person_n uncalled_a without_o ordination_n or_o call_n take_v on_o they_o to_o baptise_v or_o minister_v the_o supper_n not_o that_o i_o think_v such_o a_o practice_n to_o be_v lawful_a but_o only_o i_o intend_v to_o make_v quaere_fw-la about_o the_o validity_n of_o our_o brother_n kind_n of_o argue_v yea_o it_o be_v elsewhere_o his_o argue_v that_o it_o person_n not_o in_o office_n of_o ministry_n may_v execute_v censure_n and_o discipline_n they_o may_v then_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n for_o say_v he_o what_o hinder_v by_o this_o reason_n but_o they_o may_v also_o without_o minister_n preach_v and_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n peaceable_a plea_n page_n 196._o yea_o say_v he_o i_o sâ—e_v not_o but_o with_o a_o like_a warrant_n private_a man_n may_v administer_v the_o sacrament_n vbi_fw-la supra_fw-la page_n 196._o this_o we_o see_v be_v his_o argue_v elsewhere_o and_o yet_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n he_o grant_v that_o person_n uncalled_a may_v in_o case_n of_o necessity_n without_o ordination_n or_o call_n take_v on_o they_o the_o ministry_n in_o general_a and_o in_o particular_a may_v exercise_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o yet_o for_o all_o this_o he_o say_v that_o no_o