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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A90187	Severall papers of the treatie between His Excellencie Iames Marques of Ormond, Lord Lieutenant Generall of Ireland for the King, on the one part; and Sir Thomas Wharton, Sir Robert King, Sir John Clotworthy, Sir Robert Meredith, knights, and Richard Salwey Esquire, commissioners authorized by the two Houses of Parliament of England; on the other part. VVith the commissioners instructions concerning the Lord of Ormond; the instructions concerning the Protestants of Ireland, & compositions of delinquents: His Excellencies answer; and the Lord Lieutenants reply. With their reply to all his exceptions. And the Kings Maj. directions.	Ireland. Lord Lieutenant (1641-1649 : Ormonde); Ormonde, James Butler, Duke of, 1610-1688.; Wharton, Thomas, Sir.; England and Wales. Sovereign (1625-1649 : Charles I); England and Wales. Parliament.	1646 (1646)	Wing O458A; Thomason E378_4; ESTC R201374	32,080	45

such as the Parliament shall appoint upon these conditions First that they procure his Maj. directions for the doing therof c. which was the first and fundamentall condition of all that was propounded by us upon this Overture which was to be Precedent and without which nothing as unto the delivery up of the Government was to be expected from us Upon consideration of all which and of the Oath taken by us upon our first entrance into this great trust reposed in us the tenour whereof doth ensue in these words viz. You shall swear that you shall faithfully and truly to your power serve our Soveraign Lord the Kings Majestie in the roome and authority of Lord Lieutenant and chiefe Governour of this his Realm of Ireland you shall maintain and defend the Lawes of God and the Christian Faith You shall to your power not only keep his Maj. peace amongst his People but also maintain his Officers and Ministers in the execution and administration of Justice You shall defend his Maj. Castles Garrisons Dominions People Subjects of this Realm and represse his Rebels and Enemies You shall not consent to the damage and disher●zon of his Maj. his Heires nor Successors neither shall you suffer the right of the Crown to be destroyed by any way but shall let it to your power and if you cannot let the same You shal certifie his Maj. cleerly and expresly thereof You shall give your true and faithfull for the Kings Majesties profit and his Highnesse councel You shal conceal and keep All other things for the preservation of his Maj. Realm of Ireland the peace amongst his People and execu●ion of his Justice according to his Maj Lawes Usages and Customes of this his Highnesse Realm you shall performe and do to your power So God you helpe and by the Contents of this Book And for that our Commissioners have by their Letters certified us that they were commanded by the Committee of both houses to forbeare the delivering unto the Scottish Commissioners the duplicate of the Letters which we and the Councel had written to his Maj. and delivered to our Commissioners advertising his Maj. thereby of our addresse to the Parliament with direction to deliver them to the Scottish Commissioners to be sent to the King untill the pleasure of the two houses should bee made known which restraint doth as yet for any thing made known unto us lye still upon them And for that if we should deliver up the Sword in manner as is desired the present Parl. of this Kingdom which is the hope of the remaining Protestants here would be at an end for all which reasons we may not part with the trust committed to our charge in manner as by your papers is desired without his Majesties expresse and positive direction and therefore may not assent thereunto Ormord 19. Novemb. 1646. If your Lordship continue unsatisfied concerning the papers already delivered in or any of them as is implyed by the Exceptions taken thereunto and expressed in your last paper of the 18 of November we are ready to offer such conside●a●ions to your Lordship by way of Answer thereunto as we hope may give your Lordship satisfaction therein and this we desire may be done by conference if your Lordship shall thinke fit for that the shortnesse of time will not give opportunity to commit it to writing Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Jo. Clotworthy Ri. Salwey 19. November 1646. Although the Conference desired by you in your paper of this days date was within half an hour of the expiration o● the time limitted for this treaty A●d although you have positively declared in your 3. paper of the 18. of Novemb. 1646. That you have no power to ●nlarge your selves ●r the tim● beyond what you have expressed yet to manif●st to ●he world h●w desirous we are to receive satisfaction in those necessary exceptions by us taken to your papers given in upon this Treaty which may being the same to a happy conclusion we are ready to entertain the Conference desired by your said first paper of this dayes date ORM●ND 19. Novemb. 1646. Whereas we received a large paper from your Lordship of the 18. of Novemb. wherin you declared you could not assent to deliver up th● sword render all the Garrisons and other Commands to the pleasure of the Pa●l as was desired by us in papers formerly given in ●o your Lordship together with your particular Exceptions to the same And whereas we did immediatly thereupon offer unto your Lorpship such further ●onditions of inlargement to the former as we were instructed unto for your more ample satisfaction in complying wi●h the desires of the Parliament in order to the preservation of the Protestants of the Kingdom of Ireland And whereas your Lordship signified to us that it then being late the paper given in by us of great importance you would return answer thereunto the next morning And whereas wee did this morning deliver to your Lordship a paper declaring That if your Lordship continued unsatisfied concerning the Papers by us given in or any of them as was expressed by the Exceptions taken thereunto we were ready to offer such consideraaions to your Lordship as we hoped might give satisfaction which we desired might be done by conference for that the shortnesse of time would not permit it in writing And having received another paper from your Lordship of the 19. of Novemb. containing your refusall to deliver up the Sword c. upon the Conditions offered in our first and later papers your Lordship did signifie by your second paper of the 19. That you were ready to hear what we coul● further offer by way of Conference as was desired which was by us performed accordingly We do therefore now desire to know if your Lordship do still insist upon your refusall on the grounds expressed in your papers And if so we make known to your Lordship that we shall for our own exoneration commit to writing the summe of what we delivered in Conference and give your Lordship a copy thereof to the end the uprightnesse of our proceedings in the transaction of this Treaty with your Lordship may in all things appear although that happy successe which we desired be not attained thereby Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Jo. Clotworthy Ri. Salwey Novemb. 16. 1646. Forasmuch as what was delivered upon the Conference cannot be made use of by us as binding unto you unlesse it be reduced to writing and signed by you which when you shall have reduced the same to writing and given us a Copy thereof signed by you We shall then declare unto you whether or no we will rest satisfied therewith or shall upon the whole matter insist upon our refusall Ormond Dublin 20. Novemb. 1647. Whereas upon Thursday morning the 14 of Novemb. in our Conference with your Lordship wee did endeavour to offer such considerations as might give satisfaction to your Exceptions taken by our papers given

of Parl. By all Ordinances of Parl. we only intend such Ordinances whether already made or to be made as all others do submit unto who never offended the Parliament And whereas liberty is given to compound for such estates as any of them shall have in England they submitting to all Ordinances of Parl. By all Ordinances of Parl. wee intend only such as all persons now compounding in England do submit unto provided that all those that are thus admitted ●o their composition do effectually prosecute the same within 6 moneths after the publication of this Articles And whereas in the fourth Article of the first paper delivered in to your Lordship offer is made of 5000. l. in money and 2000. l. per annum to bee paid your Lordship in manner as is expressed in the said Article we now hold it fit to declare that if it shall be more to your Lordships satisfaction and content we have power given us and shall accordingly grant what you desired in the 6. Article of your Lordships additionall instructions sent to the Par. according as is in the paper herewith delivered in expressed And we lustly hold it fit to make known unto your Lordship that power is also given to us to agree for allowances to be paid to other persons by constam pension during the Warre of Ireland not exceeding the summe of 2000. l. per annum which pensions are to continue till they can receive the like benefit by their own estates We do now particularly declare to your Lordship and sooner according to our instructions we could not that wee have no power to enlage our elves beyond what we have expressed And do therefore now again intreat our Lordships positive answer upon the whole which we must the rather desire may be expedited for that we are according to our instructions to bring our debates to a conclusion within 4 dayes at the furthest after the beginning of the treaty which will end to morrow at 9 of the clock in the morning and we have no authority to prolong the same Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King Iohn Clotworthy Ric. Salwey A Copy of the Paper mentioned in the former Sixthly in regard that my whole fortune is now in the possession or within the power of the Rebels so as I can make no manner of use of i● As also for that I have not only at my own charge in some sort maintained the honour and dignity of my place since the 21. of Ian. 1643 which was the day whereon I was sworn his Maj. Lieutenant but likewise contributed in a considerable portion to the maintenance of the Army Garrisons now under my Command And lastly for that by meanes thereof I am utterly unable to discharge the debts I have contracted for my own support whilst I imployed my own to feed the Army or to pay the wages due to the Servant which I was necessitated to entertain in respect of the place I held For these reasons I desire it may be humbly offered to the noblenesse honour of the Parl. That to free me from the clamor of Creditors to pay my servants their wages and to transport and maintain my self and my family in some sort befitting the condition of a Gentleman The Parl. will be pleased to disburse the sum of 13000. l. 877. l. 14. s. 9. d. be paid to such as I shall appoint upon Bills of Exchange accepted by sufficient men in France or Holland to wit the one half upon sight and at 6 moneths the oeher halfe thereof which is lesse then the just sum I have disbursed for the maintenance of the Garrisons of Dublin Dundalke Newry Narrow-water Green-Castle and Carlingford not accompting my own expence nor the many other smaller disbursments spent meerly for the good of the said Garrisons And that I may be secured against any molestation by reason of the engagements I have at any time entred info for the publique service since the beginning of this Rebellion 19. Novemb. 1646. Vpon consideration had of your 3. paper of the 18. of Novem. as also of your former papers and the copies of such instructions as you delivered unto us we find no satisfaction given by you in these following particulars First we do not find that you have power to secure any of his Maj. Roman Catholike Subjects in their persons and estates who haue constantly adhered to the Government here since the 22. of October 1641 of whom wee conceive care out to be had in the present treaty Secondly you have declared unto us that you have no instruction concerning the continuation or displacing of the Judges and Ministers of the Civill List in their imployment and your instruction as unto the Martiall List whereof you gave us a Copy is as followeth viz. You or any three of you are to imploy such of the Officers now under the L●of Ormond as you shall think fit and where you displace any you are to place other Officers if they be necessarie or otherwise to see their Commands sufficiently di●charged untill the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland taketh further order which may give more occasion of fear unto the Officers of being displaced then hope of continuance in their respective imployments and there is not as much as mention made of the poore distressed Clergie of the Kingdome in any the papers or instructions delivered to you by us Thirdly the Protesta●ts of the Kingdom who are to be included in the present treatie are as you declare in the last paper delivered by you to us to submit themselves to all Ordinances of Parl. whether already made or to be made Amongst which as we are intormed are some which require the Covenant to be generally taken and others which lay Mu●cts upon those who shall use the Book of Common-prayer which forme of Service and no other is by a Law of force in this Kingdome commanded upon a penaltie to be used And in our instructions sent by our Commissioners we desire that neither the one nor the other might be pressed untill settlement by Parliament And for us to agree upon this treatie to all future ordinances which shal be made by the Parliament before it be known what those ordinances are we conceive may be of dangerous consequence to the whole Kingdom and not agreeable with the rules of prudence in us Fourthly whereas by a speciall instruction signed by us apart we did direct our said Commissioners as followeth viz. If you find the Parl. ready willing forthwith effectually to take into their care and protection his Maj. Protestant Subjects within the quarters under my command and those that have adhered to them from the 22. of October 1641. according to the purport of the instructions signed by me and the Councell and that my continuance in the Government shal be the only let thereunto you are then in such case to let them know that I will surrender my place of Lieutenant and deliver all the Holds in my power to

in And whereas we did at the same time also desire to know whether or no your Lordship had received satisfaction to all or any of your said Exceptions or whether you would still insist upon your refusall whereupon your Lordship by your third Paper of he 19. of Novemb. returned answer That what was delivered upon the Conference cannot be made use of by your Lordship as binding unto us unlesse it be reduced to writing and signed by us and that when we shall have reduced the same to writing and given you a coyy therof signed by us your Lordship will then declare unto us whether or no you will rest satisfied therewith or shall upon the whole matter insist upon your refusall Wee have therefore accordingly exprest in writing the summe of what was delivered in Conference which wee offer to your Lordship as followeth You● Lordships first Exception is Except 1. That none of the Propositions of the first way of Overture which were transmitted by your Lordship to the Parliament are assented unto To which we answer Answ 1. That an Ordinance of Parliament of the 15. of October 1646. ●ontaining the Declaration of both Houses to proceed upon the second way of Overture made by your Lordship was by us delivered to your Lordship 2 That Declaration was made by the Parliament before such time as Sir Francis Willong●by returned from London from whom your Lordship might be informed thereof 3 Your Lordship presuming before your Commissioners came from London that the Parl. might not accept of those Propositions did by Additionall Instructions declare you would not insist thereupon and accordingly gave them liberty to recede from the same and to propound a second way of Overture which the Parliament did proceed upon and appointed a way of Treating with you of which your Commissioners did advertise your Lordship by Direction of the Committee of Parliament appointed to consider of the said Propositions And 4 If your Lordship observe how far that second way of Overture is accepted and granted by the Parliament in the Proposition by us given in you may happily find not onely full and positive satisfaction to the most of what your Lordship asked but in some particulars also more ample offers made then was by your Lordship desired therein which then the world shall consider together with the grounds and principles held forth by your Lordship inviting the Dispatch of Supplies ●o this Place we are confident the Parliament will be abundantly justified therein yet over and above all this we continue to declare that in every particular we will go to the utmost limits of ●ur Instructions and where any thing seemes doubtfull to your Lordship or too short we shall if the Treatie succeed represent it to those that em ploy us in the best manner we can for your Lordships full satisfaction And this wee desire may be applyed to every Exception taken by your Lordship Except 2. That we have no power to secure any of his Majesties Romane Catholike Subjects in their persons and estates who have constantly adhered to the Government here since the 22. of October 1641. Of whom you conceive care ought to be had in the present Treaty Answ 1 Those that by Authority of Parliament gave power to us to treat did not for ought we can perceive take cognizance of any of the Romane Catholikes of Ireland that did adhere to the Government of this Kingdome against the Irish Rebels 2 If any such be it 's probable the number is not considerable and if they have done nothing against the Parliament they need not any speciall security but may expect as much as others that have in like manner demeaned themselves although they be of the Protestant Religion 3 Power is given as by an Instruction delivered in the 16. of Nov. is exprest to protect such as will come under Contribution and to give them safeguard by the countenance of the Forces serving under the Parliament According to which they are to be protected in their persons and estates aswell from the violence of the souldiers under the Parliament as of the Enemy And this to be extended unto all without distinction of Offence or Religion 4 If any thing more can be reasonably offered in the behalfe of such Papists as have adhered to the present Government and not beene in the Irish Rebellion it shall be also recommended back by us to those that imployed us in the best manner we can for your Lordships satisfaction Except 3. That no assurance is given that the Judges and Ministers of the Civill and Martiall List shall be continuod in their places and employments c. Answ 1. Nothing is given us in charge nor hath any thing been expressed by us concerning the removall of the Judges and Ministers of the Civill List nor any of them 2 In cases of like nature it hath not been known that persons so qualified have been continued and established by Treaty nor was it to ●ur knowledge ever heretofore insisted on by any whomsoever 3. If it must be presumed that they have offended the Parliament yet assurance is given and otherwise they can need none for security to their persones with injoyment of there goods and estates in the Kingdom of Ireland as if they had not offended and have liberty to compound for their Estates ●s any of them have in England and such Composition not to exceed two years value Concerning the Officers of the Martiall List We answer Answ 1. We have expressed That we will continue and imploy all such Officers whomsoever as shall be found fit for the Service And as we have not hitherro taken up a resolution if the Treaty sh●o●ld succed to displace any so we doe declare that it must be an extraordinary cause that should induce us to it and we understand the words of our Instruction viz. You are to imploy such of the Officers c. doth so direct us and therefore connot give as your Lordship expresseth more occasion of feare unto the Officers of being displaced then hope of continuance in their respective imployments 2. As we beleeve no president can be show so it is obvious the inconvenience would be very great to article for and establish by Treaty any Officers of the Military List though our resolution be to continue the same 3. The same assurance and benefit as is declared in our third answer to your Lordships objections concerning the Civill List is also to be extended in like manner to the Officers of the Martiall List according to our Instructions In which also the Clergie of this Kingdome mentioned by your Lordship may respectively receive advantage concerning whom we are not instructed Yet We desice it may be rememcred that power is given us to agree for Pensions to such as we shhll thinke fit to the value of two ●●o●stand pounds per annum which we are ready to assertain unto such of the Civill and Martiall List as also of the distressed Clergy as

VVE● have considered the paper wherein you expressed the summe of what was delivered by you in the Conference with us to which we make return Our first exception was Not that none of the Propositions of the first way of Overture which were transmitted by us to the Parliament are assented unto as in that paper is expressed but that none of the Propositions which were transmited whether you look to the first way of Overture as you are pleased to tearm it or the second way of Overure are assented vnto And to the end that this may be the better understood we hold it necessary to declare that some of the Propositions which were transmitted by us from hence were signed by us a part wherein we did undertake the prosecution of the Warre as vigorously against the Rebels as wee should bee thereunto enabled by the Parliament which Propositions are expressed at large in our second paper of November 18. 1646. and these seem onely to have relation to Our selfe There were other Propositions signed by Us and the Councell wherein not onely Our selfe but all others of this Kingdome as well of the Souldiery as others of his Majesties Prote●●●● subjects of this Kingdome and their ad●e●ents are respe●●●●●● concerned the said Propositions importing no ●e●●e then the preservation of them in their persons estates and imployments And there were Instructions signed by us and delivered to our Commissioners authorizing them that if they did finde the Parl. willing and ready to take into their care and protection his Maj. subjects within the quarters now under our Command and those that have adhered to them since the 22 of October 1641. according to the purport of the Instructions signed by us and the Councel and that our continuance in the Government should be the only let thereunto that then our said Commissioners should let them know that we would surrender our place of Lieutenant and deliver up all the Holds in our power to such as the Parl. should appoint upon certain conditions whereof the first and principall is that they should procure his Maj. directions for our so doing which offer made by us is in the Ordinance of parl delivered by you to us and by you in your paper of the 19. of Novem. 1646. called our second way of Overture wherupon you say the parl did proceed which you say Sir Francis Willoughby upon his return from London might have informed us That sir F. Willoughby might have told us we know not wee are sure he did never tell us of the resolution said by you to bee taken by the Parl. for proceeding in that you call the second way of Overture nor did hee bring with him for ought known to vs any copy of the Order of the 15 of Obtob declaring that Resolution nor was it mentioned by our Commissioners in any of their Letters though we received severall as wel by the said Sir Fran. Willoughby as by others of dates subsequent to the said Order But on the contrary Sir Gerrard Lowther and Sir Paul Davies did by their Letter of the 6. of Novemb. after sir Fr. Willoughbies departure from London certifie us that Sir Robert King and the rest were sent hither to treat with us as they heard for surrendring Duhlin and other places under Comand to which they were not called but were altogether strangers to their transactions there concerning that Treaty and that they did not know any thing of their commission authority or instructions or how far they extended But though the Parl. did lay hold of this called our second way of Overture yet the propositions which were signed by us and the Councel wherein all his Mai. Protestant Subjects of this Kingdom as well of the Souldiery as others such as have adhered unto them were a like concerned with us were not to be passed over for whether we did continue in the Government according to the first way of Overture or part with it termed by you the second way of Overture it was our main care and desire that they should be secured in their persons estates and employments which is not yet done to our satisfaction And in that which concerneth our selfe the principal thing which in his Maj. direction and allowance for the rendring up of the Government which was to precede and warrant all that we did propound to be done by us herein is yet wanting which we desire you to represent to those who imployed you in the best manner you may Exception 2. Our second Exception is that you have no power to secure any of his Maj. Romane Catholique Subjects in their persons and estates who have constantly adhered to the Government here since the 22. of Octob. 1541. of whom wee conceive care ought to be had in this present Treaty To this you give these Answers First that those who by authority of Parl. gave power to you to treat did not take cognizance of any of the Romane Catholiques in Ireland that did adhere to the Government of this Kingdom against the Irish Rebels which answer doth not satisfie us but doth enforce the Exception for their not taking cognizance of them is the ground and cause of the Exception Your second answer is That if any such be it is probable the number is not considerable And if they have done nothing against the Pari●● they need not any speciall security but may expect as much as others that have in like manner demeaned themselves although they be of the Protestant Religion which answer doth not satisfie but giveth us more cause to insist upon the exception because you say it is probable that the number of them is not considerable whereas we who have been upon the place know it to be otherwise both in number quality of persons And since his Maj. Protestant Subjects who have served against the Rebels here and done nothing against the Parl. are offered to be secured in their persons and estates they may by the same rule of Justice expect the like assurance the greater regard ought to be of them for that their Religion being made the pretence of the Rebellion they do notwithstanding adhere to his Maj. protestant Subiects against the Rebels who are of that Religion Your third answer viz. Power is given as by an instruction delivered in the 16 of Novemb. is exprest to protect such as will come under contribution to give them safeguard by the countenance of the Forces serving under the Parl. according to which they are to be protected in their persons and estates as well from the violence of the soldiers under the Parliament as of the Enemy and this to be extended unto all without distinction of Offence or Religion which Answer doth not satisfie us for the said instruction looketh rather to the Rebels who are to be brought under contribution then to those who have continued good Subiects and there●n there is no assurance given unto them for their ēstate as is in the same