concluded thence That the Altar was measured as well as the Temple Rev. 11. 1. referring only to the * Jewish not christian Church which hath no * Temple nor Altar Ergo we ought to have an Altar yea one divine set form of Altars in all christian Churches under the Gospel which I hope you dare not aver After these three Independent Arguments he pretends my third Quere contradicts the first because I suppose a church-government may be consonant to Gods Word in the generall which is not particularly prescribed in it A pretty fancy As if nothing could be consonant to Gods Word which is not particularized or verbally enjoyned in it Are not our materiall churches garments temporall Magistrates Majors Corporations Parliaments Courts of justice Laws of all sorts yea Festivals Covenants monthly Fasts c. agreeable to Gods Word because not literally prescribed in it Are your private church-covenants unmixt Communions as you phrase them erections of Independent congregations without the licence of temporall Magistrates not consonant to the Word in your owne opinions though no where extant in it If not then all your divine pretences for them vanish and you yeeld your cause If yea you must then recant this pretence of a contradiction till you are able to prove 〈◊〉 better then yet you have done Having played the Logicians and contradictors part so well he next betakes himself to his Anti-queries to prove a set church-modell which are three 1. If no prescript forme of church-government in the Word why not Episcopacy especially regulated and moderated as well as Presbytery I answere if you meane it of Lordly Episcopacy there are abundant pregnant Texts against it to prove it opposite to Gods Word If of moderated or regulated Episcopacy the same with Presbytery if the Parliament by the Synodâ—… advice unanimously establish it as most consonant to the Scriptures and most agreeable to the civill Government I shall readily submit unto it without opposition and why not you and all others 2. If church-government be suited to States whether Politicians are not more fit to consult about establishing it Why is an Assembly of Divines called to search the Word about it I answer that my position is That every church-government ought to be suitable to Gods Word as likewise to the civill State Therefore Politicians and States-men are fit to be consulted with to suit it best to the civill State and an Assembly of Divines to square it likewise by and to the Word the true reason why in this our Realme and all other Christian States as I can abundantly manifest if need be Ecclesiasticall Laweâ—… and formes of government have ever been setled by Parliaments with the advice of Synods Councells wherein States-men and Church-men have jointly concurred in their deliberations and votes using both the Bible and the Law to settle it and not throwing either of them aside as incompatible as ignorant or lawlesse persons deeme them but joyning both together True civill or ecclesiasticall Policy skill in Government Arts wholsome Lawes boing †Gods gift as well as spirituall graces To his third Anti-quere I answer That it is more reasonable the * State should be subject to Christs rule then Christ to its direction But this Quere is quite besides the Question till you prove infallibly That Christ hath prescribed a set unalterable divine government to which all churches Nations States must necessarily conform and clearly manifest what this Government is in all its particulars Till this be done the sole question is Whether christian Princes Parliaments States Synods under the Gospel have not a lawfull power to prescribe Ecclesiasticall Lawes and forms of Government not repugnant to the Word not to Christ himself as you pretend who is †King of Kings and Lord of Lords above the reach or command of humane power but to all particular Christian churches congregations subjects under their respective jurisdictions and whether the whole representative Church and State of England in Parliament have not sufficient authority by Gods law to over-rule and bind all or any particular members or congregatious of it as well as the major part of an Independent congregation power to * over-vote and rule the lesser part and to order yea bind any of their particular members A truth so clear that no rationall man good Christian or Subject can deny it Your prime argument then wherewith you deceive poore silly people That Kings Parliaments cannot prescribe Lawes and Canons to Christ himselfe the Soveraigne Lord and King of his Church Ergo they cannot prescrib them to their Christian subjects and Churches who by Christs owne ordinance are subject to their lawfull soveraigne authority is pure Independent Non-sence much like this A Master Father cannot prescribe Laws Rules to the King or Parliament who are paramount him Ergo not to his servants children who are subject to him As for the latter part of this Querie That the Saints thinke CHRIST is King alone over his Churches and hath not left them to substitutes and the politicke considerations of men to bee governed by If hee meanes it onely of matters of Faith or of meere internall government over the soules of men it may passe as tolerable but if hee intends it of externall Ecclesiasticall Government Discipline or order in the Church or State as Christian hee must renounce his Oath of Allegeance his late Protestation Nationall Vow and Covenant and make Rom. 13. 1 to 6. 1. Pet. 2. 13 14. Tit. 3. 1. 1 Tim. 2. 1 2 3. to be Apocryphall the Confessions of all Protestant Churches heterodox and deny christian Kings Magistrates highest civill powers to be Christs substitutes Vicars in point of Government to whom Christ hath delegated his * Kingly power as truely as Ministers are his deputies in point of instruction admonition to whom he hath bequeathed his Propheticall office 2. In his answer to my second Quere he first wilfully misrecites it then infers †a blind obedience from it to all superiours commands be they never so unjust or contrary to Gods Word whereas my Question speaks onely of lawfull decrees c. consonant to Gods Word and to the civill Lawes Government and manners of the people to which every Christian in point of conscience is bound to submit without any danger of blinde obedience by the expresse resolution of Rom. 13. 1 to 6. 1 Pet. 2. 14 15. Tit. 3. 1. Ezra 7. 26. Josh. 1. 16 17 18. Heb. 13. 17. If any man deny this verity he must renounce not onely his Christianity but his Allegeance and Humanity too But suppose saith he the whole Parliament and Synode should erre in commanding a Government that is erronious or untrue must we then submit unto it I answer first such an oversight is not to be presumed before it be actually committed and it is neither * christian charitable nor any way of Christ thus to prejudge their resolutions Secondly if the Decrees or Government
themselves upon all occasions when brought before them without demurring to their jurisdictions Therfore Christian Princes Magistrates who were long since predicted to become nursing Fathers to the Church under the Gospel have much more power and jurisdiction in Church-government and affairs within their own Dominions 3 For that it appears to be away that will breed infinite confusions disorders by confounding v the bounds of parishes renting Congregations families and most relations assunder giving way to every sect to chuse Ministers erect Churches of their own without controle in point of position though their practise be quite contrary where they have power they admitting no other kind of government but Independency in New-England and excommunicating or banishing those who will not submit unto it a government inconsistent with Royalty and the civill government and so none of Christs who never erected any Church-gouernment to clash with or controle the civill 4 Whereas he pretends that x persons of one family or parish may be members of severall Churches without any inconvenience schisme or distraction as well as members of severall companies and trades and therefore Independency is no occasion of divisions I answer 1. That y two cannot walke peaceably and lovingly together unlesse they are agreed especially in matters of Religion and those who in point of conscience cannot communicate or agree together in one Church will never questionlesse accord well together in one family bed parish kingdom as experience manifests 2. There is a great difference between severall trades and Halls in one City parish kingdome and severall formes of Church-government in these particulars which occasion unity in the one but schismes in the others 1. All trades societies hold one another lawfull usefull necessary agreeable to the lawes of God and the Realme without dispute so they breed no contrariety of opinions or disaffection but each different Church deems the other unlawful in no way of Christ so as they cannot with safe conscience joyn or communicate together and therupon they sever one from another 2. Every several trade and society even in their very trade is subject to the general Government Laws of the City Realm wherin they are to which they appeale and have recourse upon all occasions of difference none craving an exemption or Independency from the whole Corporation Parliament or supream Magistrate in matters which concern their government but deriving their Corporations Charters Laws and priviledges from them which subordination keeps them all in peace and unity But Independent Churches deny any subordination subjection to the Ecclesiasticall Lawes and Edicts of Parlements of temporall Magistrates or Synods and will be regulated obliged onely by their own peculiar Edicts which must needs occasion infinite Schismes and disorders therefore the cases are far different from one the other Thirdly Christians as Christians are all of one and the self-same society and profession as those of one Trade or Calling are therefore they should have all but one common Church and government as these Trades have To set then the comparison upright we must state it thus If some of one Fraternity in London suppose the Merchant-taylers Sadlers Mercers or the like should fall out among themselves and one would have one forme of government another another and thereupon divide themselves into severall conventicles and petty meetings in corners not at their common hall and one chuse one Government Master or Warden another another and so sever the company and continue independent this no doubt would prove an apparent schisme and seminary of infinite divisions to the distraction destruction of the whole Company and Fraternity This is the true state of your Independency yea Mr Goodwins present case in his own Parish miserably divided disordered by his Independent way which hath induced him to refuse to administer the Lords Supper yea Baptisme to some children of Parishioners for a yeares space or more though they offer to be examined by him esteeming them none of his Flocke preaching but seldome to them though he receive their tithes and instead thereof to gather an Independent congregation to himselfe out of divers Parishes and his owne to whom hee prescribes a Covenant ere they be admitted members of it preaching praying administring the Sacrament to them alone in private conventicles neglecting his Parishioners which hath engendred such discontents and rents in his Parish even among the well-affected and truely religious that he must either desert it or his Independent way What schismes and discords this New way hath raised in other Parishes is so well knowne to the World that I need no other evidence to prove it a schismaticall By-path and so no way of Christ the * Prince of peace who prescribes nought else but precepts of peace and unity to his Churches and is most offended with their schismes Finallie I cannot thinke this way a way of Christ because I finde it a Pioner and underminer of Parliamentary authority devesting Parliaments of all manner of jurisdiction in matters of Religion and church-government witnesse the passage of the Two independent Brethren recited in my Independency examined p. 3. which certainly weares a Maske as yet since she never appeared bare-faced to the world not one of her Patrons hitherto presenting us with her in her native colours or lineaments whose guilt this Author by his explanation to make it good rather aggravates then extenuates He writes That the Brethren in the mentioned period and expressions reflected onely upon the generalitie of the Land who according to the Lawes yea according to the principles of all reason and equitie have the right of nominating persons unto Parliamentarie trust and power but HAVE NO AVTHORITY OR POWER FROM CHRIST â—…O NOMINATE OR APPOINT WHO SHALL BE THE MEN THAT SHALL ORDER THE AFFAIRES OF CHRISTS KINGDOME OR INSTITVTE THE GOVERNMENT OF HIS CHVRCHES These are that secular root out of which the Brethren conceive AN IMPOSSIBILITY that a spirituall extraction should be made that is THAT A LEGITIMATE ECCLESIASTICK POWER SHOVLD ACCORDING TO THE MIND OF CHRIST OR ANY PRECEPT OR PRESIDENT OF SCRIPTVRE BEE BY THEM CONFERRED VPON ANY MAN And this IMPOSSIBILITY conceived by them they onelie illustrate and declare by that parallel expression in Job Who can bring a cleane thing out of an uncleane c. But to hold that the persons so elected as hath been said have a power by vertue of such nomination or election to enact Lawes and Statutes in matters of Religion and to order under mulcts and penalties how men shall worship and serve God as it is a meanes to awaken the eye of jealousie upon them and so is seven times more destructive unto and undermining not onlie of their power but of their honour peace and safetie also then any thing that is found in the way so ill intreated so it is a setling of a power upon the electors of such persons I meane the promiscuous
20. c. 3. 1. 1 Pet. 2. 2. Heb. 5. 12 13 14. 1 Ioh. 2. 11. to 15. Ephes. 4. 15. 16 †1 Tim. 3 6. †Ezek. 16. 13. * Rom. 13. 1 to 7. 1 Tim 2 1 2 3. Tit 3. 1 1 Pet. 1. 2. to 24 c. 3. 1. 1 Cor. 7. 1 to 18. Eph. 5. 22 23. c. 6. 1. to 10. Col. 3. 18 to 25. †See my Catalogue c. The unbishoping of Timothy and Titus A Breviate and Antipathy of the English Lordly Prelacy †See my humble Remonstrance against Ship-money * In his Sermon on Feb. 25 * Deut. 12. 8. Judges 〈◊〉 6. r. 21. 25. †Yea never more dangerous errours refâ—…ted suppressed then in the 4. first general Councels and some Synods since as that of Dort and other Protestant Synods See the Harmony of confessionâ—…s Where therefore they determine rightly you must submit unto them where they confirm apparent dangerous errours there you may vary from them when proved such * These are the true grounds of all sâ—…rations Esa 65. 5. Luk. 18. 10 to 16. lude 18. 19. witnesses the Novatians Dunatists of old The severall orders of Monks Nuns Eremâ—…s Anchorites in the Church of Rome and their new order of Jesuits each of them preâ—…nding more sanctity and strictnesse then another and so severing in their different orders habits Monâ—… rules covenants one from another †Mr Goodwins Theomachia p 24 25. The Reply of two of the Brethren pasâ—… * Epistle to the Reader p g. 11. 33. 44. to 52. b Page 18. 22. 52. and else Gamaliell Himselfe no Apostle nor Christian from whose words you yet take your text is Gospell was not altogether of this opinion 1. * Sec Epiphanius Basil Augustine and all the Bookes of or against any Hereticks and Sectaries * Matth. 4 6. * Mat. 24. 11. 23. to 27. c. 7. 15. 2 Cor. 11 13 14 15. Ephes. 4. 14. 2 Thes. 2. 9. 10 Rev. 13. 2. to â—…8 2 Ioh. 10. 〈◊〉 f Gal. 2. 4. to 18 * Rom. 19. 15 16 26. h See Iustinian Cod. l. 〈◊〉 Tit. 8. 1. Eliz. c. 2. 35. Eliz. c. 1. 2. 2 i Page 21. k See the London Ministers Petition against it 1 l See 1 Cor. 11. 16. c 10. 32. 33. m See p. 30. to 52. 2 n p. 3 4. 11. 12. p Ezra I. 1. to the end c. 4 17. to 24. c. 6. 2. to 17. c. 7. 12. to 28. Neh 2. 1. to 27. 2 Chron. 36. 22 23. Isay 44. 28. Dan. 3. 29. c. 6. 25 26 27. Ionah 3. 5 6 7. r Acts 24 5. 26 27 28. 2 Tim. 4. 10. 17. s 1 Tim. 2. 1 2. 3. Rom. 13. 1. to 7. Tit 3. 1 t Matt. 10. 17 18. 21. c. 26 27. Amos 13. 9. c. 15. Acts 4. 1. to 24. c. 5. 17. to 4. c. 6. 12 13. c. 9. 1 2. 3. c. 11. 2 3 4. c. 16. 10. to 40. c. 18. 12. q Tim. 2. 1 Ier. 29. 7. v Page 38. 10 40. x Pag. 30. 31 y Amos 3. 3. * Esa. 9. 6. See my twelve Questions p. 7 8. Pag. 48 49 50. This he more fully expressed in a Sermon in February last Note Gamaliell your Text never taught you any such Anti-Parliamentary Doctrine Note * The people having power to elect Princes Magistrates Ministers Parliaments Synods have likewise authority â—…o nominate such who by the rule of Gods Word may limit these particulars though not by their owne bare authority without or against the Word †Every Magistrate Parliament and Synod have power to declare and en joâ—…n what is necessary to be beleeved practised by or according to Gods Word not without or contrary to it a See my Appendix to the soveraigne power of Parliaments and Kingdomes p. 122. to 131. Twelve considerable Queries p. 4 5. Independency examined p. 2 11 12. b Page 25 26. c Num. 22. 35 c. 23 24. 1 Sam. 10. Act. 5. 34. to 40. Joh. 11. 49 to 53. d Ioh. 6. 70 71 Mar. 6. 7. to 14. e Matth. 5. 1. c. 13. 1 2. c. 8. 18. c. 9. 36. c. 14 14 19 c. 11. 32 33. c. 21 8 9 10. Luk. 6. 17 19. c. 8. 44 45. Joh. 6. 2 5. Mar. 12. 12 37. Luk. 13 17. c. 18. 43. c. 21. 38. c. 22. 1. Joh. 7 40. 43. c. c. 8. 2. Act. 2. 47. * This he confessed and it appeared by a writing before the Committee of plundered Ministers * Or as well ashimselfe extracts many spirituall Doctrines out of Gamaliels secular speech in these very sermons * Therefore your principall Argument that the seven particular Churches in Asia had no Iurisdiction one over another being under different civil Dominions and not members of the selfe-same Christian Republike â—…rgo the whol Parliament and Church of England have no Iurisdiction over particular parish Churches or Independent Congregations in England is a meere Independency
they establish be not directly against Gods Word nor pernicious to our soules though not altogether such as we could wish yet we ought contentedly to submit unto it without opposition If contrary to the Word we must then 〈◊〉 submit thereto for the present and expect a redresse in Gods due time But if it be such a Government and Discipline under which we may freely enjoy the sincere and powerfull preaching of the Word the due administration of the Sacraments and all other Ordinances of God necessary for our salvation and edification as we may doubtlesse do under a Presbytery and that government our pious Parliament intends to settle we ought cordially and cheerfully to submit thereto yea thankfully to embrace and blesse God for it and can neither waiwardly oppugne nor refuse submission to it without arrogancy contumacy and apparent schisme As for his question concerning my owne and follow-brethrens sufferings which we deeme our Honour not our Shame I answer that none of us suffered for opposing writing or speaking against the Bishops legall authority or any ceremonies established in our Church by Act of Parliament but onely against their pretended divine right to their Episcopall Lordly power diametrally contrary to Scripture Fathers Councels the best Protestant and Popish Authors the * Statutes of our Realm and against their Innovations in doctrine discipline ceremonies canons c. contrary to the Lawes of the land Articles and Homilies of our Church as the Parliament hath resolved them as all our Books demonstrate and Dr Bastwicke in direct termes in the Preface of his Flagellum And therefore it could be neither pride arrogance nor schisme but meer conscience and duty in us to oppose them in these their usurpations and innovations only contrary to the Laws of God and the Realme If he and his would containe themselves within these our bounds our Church should enjoy more peace their persons more honour then now they are likely to gaine by opposing prejudicating both the Parliaments and Synods proceedings though never so pious consciencious religious 3. His pretended contradiction of the third Quere to the first is formerly answered I shall onely adde that things may be consonant to the * generall Rules of Gods Word though not precisely prescribed in it All Independent Ladies Gentlewomen and you I hope will grant that their different fashions habits colours attires are all agreeable to Gods Word if modest and warranted by this generall precept 1 Tim. 2. 9. Let women adorn themselves in modest apparel though not particularized in the Text So may a church-government or Dresse be consonant to Scripture though not precisely delineated or enjoyned by it 4. To the fourth he gives no answer at all but bids me prove it which I have done already in my Independency examined till it be disproved 5. To the fifth he grants that Independency will overthrow all Nationall Churches and Synods and the two Independent Brethren assure us in their Reply to A. S p. 111 that in time it cannot but overthrow all other sorts of Ecclesiasticall governments Is it not then a turbulent dangerous schismaticall unquiet that I say not insufferable Government by your owne confessions which will admit no equall nor corrivall nor yet any Nationall Church Synod Parliament Prince or temporall Magistrate to exercise any Ecclesiasticall Legislative or Magisteriall authority over any of their Conventicles members persons liberties estates much lesse over their consciences as they are Christians Will any Parliament State or Nation think you suffer such a Government to take root among them which will un-King un-Parliament un-church un-Nation them altogether and make each severall congregation an absolute Monarchy Church Republick Nation within it selfe depending on subordinate wholly to it selfe as if it and they were no part or members of the publike The Lord preserve us from such a dividing and overturning Government As for his invectives against the Formality Tyranny and enslaving of mens judgments in the Presbyteriall way as inconsistent with spirituall liberty and State priviledges they are meere groundlesse calumnies to draw an odium on it some of your male-contented party professing they would rather set up Lordly Episcopacy which they have abjured then it whereas these aspersions suit better with your independent modell which is more rigid uncharitable unsociable Papall tyrannicall Anti-monarchicall Anti-synodicall yea Anti-parliamentall as I have elsewhere manifested then any other church-government whatsoever For my pretended bitter expressions they are so suitable to the effects and reall consequences of this New way as you stile it that I could not expresse my self in other language without injury to the truth and if any of my best Friends who stood by me in my sufferings deem themselves injured or reproached by them as you pretend though none of them have yet complained to me it is I hope onely scandalum acceptum non datum and I presume my Friends are so ingenuous as not to be offended with me for * reproving only their errors with ingenuous freedom in which I manifest my self their greatest Friend because I neither spare nor flatter them in their mistakes However though I really honour all my Christian Friends as well Independent as Presbyteriall whom you most scandalously traduce as Episcopall and time-servers heretofore yet I preferre the * truth of God the peace and safety of my Native bleeding dying Church and Countrey now much endangered by our unhappy divisions before all Friends or earthly comforts whatsoever As for your pretended unsubjection of Presbyterian Synods and Churches to the Parliament in setling Ecclesiasticall matters I neither know nor plead for any such and our present Assembly being both appointed directed by and submitting all their determinations wholly to the Parliament as they are obliged both by Orders Protestation Covenant and professe they ought to doe armes me sufficiently against any such improbable untrue surmise 6. To the sixth Quere he returnes no answer but plainly yeelds that there was never any Independent Church in any age or Nation whatsoever totally converted to the christian faith till this present nor any one Author that maintained it till Mr Ainsworth a Separarist from whom the Apologists professe their dissent in some things As for any reverend godly persons who now contend for this new Modell whose piety eminecy make their errors not lesse false but farre more dangerous infectious though I reverence their persons yea judgments too in other things yet I cannot subscrib to them in this new dangerous Bypath wch is not yet so beaten as to deserve the name of Christs Road-way For the new supposed light discovered in these dayes touching church-government if you meane it onely of your Independency which you borrowed from the Brownists or Low-countrey Anabaptists the first inventors of this Government I doubt when brought out to the light and examined by the word of light it will for the most part prove but twilight * if not darknesse If
you meane it of any other light that is truely such we blesse God for it and desire to walke brotherly and unanimously in it In the seventh he grants that the Law of Nature which instructs men to unite themselves into one Nationall State or civill Government doth likewise teach them to joine themselves into subject themselves unto one Nationall Church and to Nationall Synods Parliaments in point of church-government in which every particular man hath his Vote though not in proper person which hee objects is necessarie but I deny since all cannot possibly assemble yet in their deputies Knights Burgesses or selected Commissioners and though it bee tâ—ue that Christ hath not given Magistrates such absolute authority over mens consciences as bodies as you object yet hee hath enjoyned us to bee * subject to the higher powers and to every lawfull ordinance of man not repugnant to his Word EVEN FOR CONSCIENCE SAKE and THE LORDS SAKE too For my passage That there is no example of gathering independent Congregations not of Infidels but of men already converted to and setled in the Christian Faith unlesse derived from the private conventicles of Arrians Novatians Donatists and other Hereticks who yet wâ—re not independent among themselves it is not a bitter speech as you phrase it but a true one and onely bitter to you because undeniable For as it was the * common practice of those seducing Hereticks Sectaries to gather private Conventicles of their own and labour to draw other orthodox Christians from their proper Ministers to incorporate themselves into their private separated congregations as Historians informe us So no such practice of alluring and stealing away other Pastors sheep from their proper Shepheard who first coverted them to and edified them in the faith and grace of Christ can be produced but only in these Hereticks and Sectaries whose practice your Independents imitate As for those private conventicles as he phraseth them for which he saith I may blesse God that I was remembred in them with tears when others durst not name me as I do really blesse God for them and those who remembred me effectually in them so I dare not stile them Conventicles in an ill sense since not †such by Law being only lawfull Assemblies of private Christians to seek unto God by prayer fasting upon extraordinary occasions which all good Christians cannot but approve But all these meetings were farre from being then stiled reputed Independent Churches or having any affinity with them so as they make nothing for his cause 8. To the eighth Quere he gives a negative Answer First in generall next in particular to some instances First he grants that there was a Nationall Church yea Nationall assemblies Parliaments determining church-affaires of the Jewes but these saith he cannot be a pattern for us now because the covenant of the Gospell is not made with any one particular Nation as with the Jewes but to all Nations that embrace the Gospel and beleeve in Christ you have no promise nor prophesie of any Nation to be holy to God but the Jewes Nation when they shall bee called againe To which I reply first That Independents have not the least precept or example for any solemne Covenant made betwixt God and men to walke in the wayes of God c. but onely * in the old Testament and Church of the Israelites and that no private congregationall but publâ—…ke Nationall covenant prescribed by the supreme temporall Magistrate and Assembly not by the Priests or private Synagogues yea the principall precepts presidents for publike or private fasts sanctifying the Sabbath c. you likewise derive from the old Testament and that Church why then should not their Nationall Church be a pattern for us and you to imitate as well as their Nationall covenant fasting sabbath-keeping the Church of God being all one as it is a Church both under the old Teastament and new and the pattern of it under the Law a better pesident for the Church under the Gospel of which it was a type and fore-runner then the pattern of the Tabernacle shewed in the Mount so frequent in your Lips and Books a president for your Independent Modell to which it hath no analogy 2. This reason is most absurd and false the Covenant of the Gospel extending not onely to particular persons but to * all Nations and people whatsoever who are both prophesied and promised to become Christs own inheritance possession people spouse church and to be an HOLY NATION A PECVLIAR PEOPLE c. to the Lord in infinite Texts both of the old and new Testament which I wonder the Respondent should either not see or forget being ten thousand fold more cleare and visible then his Independent platforme which few or none can yet espy in Scripture History or Politiques 2. He addes that I cannot shâ—…w any Nation every member whereof is qualified sufficiently to make up a church which is Christs body unlesse I will take in Drunkards Whore-masters c. to be members of a church whereas the Word saith they must be visible Saints and this cannot be avoided in a Nationall church I answer that I dare not be wiser then my Master Christ who informes me that there will and must be alwayes in the visible church on earth be it Nationall parochiall presbyteriall or congregationall * goats among the sheep chaffe among the wheat which must grow together â—…ill the harvest at the end of the world to wit the day of judgment good fish mixed with the bad in the churches Net 2. I finde a a Judas a Devill among the Apostles many b grosse sinners idolaters and corruptions in the Jewish church many abuses Epicures Drunkards Whâ—…re-masters L bertines uncleanâ—… persons and false Teachers in the churches of Galatla Ephesus Colosse Pergamus Smyrna Thyatira and Laodicea yet the Scripture expresly stiles them c the body and churches of Christ and reputes such members though corrupt ones of those Churches who doe not actually cease to be members when excommunicated or suspended for a season after they are baptized and professe the Christian faith nor did any separate from these churches though they had some corruptions and evill members For you therefore to separate from and unchurch such Nationall or Parochial churches which have some such members in them is to unchurch all churches both in the old the new Testament and world it self yea your own churches too 3. The Scripture is expresse d that many are called but few chosen and saved that all must be compelled to come into the church though they want the wedding-garment There never was nor shall be here on earth any one visible church compacted wholly of reall elected Saints without any mixture of Reprobates such a church we shall meet with onely in heaven I am sure you can gather none such on earth 4. Are there no corrupt or drunken members in your independent churches
producing perverting the Scripture it selfe to justifie them as the * Devill cited and wrested Scripture to tempt Christ yea our Saviour and the Scripture informe us that many false Teachers shall arise and doe great Miracles Signes and Wonders insomuch that they shall deceive many yea the greatest part of the World and if it were possible the very Elect That Satan and his Ministers also transforme themselves into Angels of Light That false Teachers usually come to seduce men in sheeps clothing with all deceiveablenes and craftines whereby they lye in waite to deceive and advise us frequently to beware of such and not admit them into our houses c. And must we therefore not speedly oppose resist avoyd suppresse them or any of them now because they thus pretend they are of and from God Himselfe but stay â—…ll we see their condemnation written with a beam of the sun by the finger of God himselfe and till he hath disclaimed renounced them from Heaven by some visible judgment or destruction If Aâ—…rianisme 〈◊〉 Socinianism Anabaptisme or any anciently exploded Heresies or Schismes should revive and sprout up among us as some have lately done should wee use such indulgence as this towards them because they pretend their origination and descent from heaven and their opinions not disputable only but warranted by the Scripture Alas what confusion what inundation of heresies schismes and monstrous opinions would this presently introduce into our Church to its destruction ruine if such a Paradox were once admitted 2 Secondly Because it is contrary to these expresse precepts and presidents both of the Old and New Testament which you may peruse at leasure Deut. 13. 1. to 18. Levit. 19. 17. Joshua 22. 9. to 24. Psalme 119. 104. 128. 2 Kings 22. 8. to 27. Ier. 4. 30. 31. a pregnant place c. 14. 14. to 18. cap. 23. 13. to 23. cap 27. 15. to 19. c. 29. 8 9. Ezra 13. throughout Matthew 7. 15. cap. 24. 11. 23. 24. 25. 26. Mark 13. 5 6. 22 23 24. Acts 13. 6. to 14. cap 15. 1. to 33. cap. 17. 11. Rom. 16. 17. 18. 2 Cor. 11. 13. 14 15. Galath. 1. 6. 7 8 9 10. c. 2. 4. to 18. a noted place c. 3. 1 2. 3. Ephes. 4. 14 15. Phil. 3. 1. 2. 3. Coloss. 2. 8. 18. to the end 1 Thes. 5. 21. 2 Thes. 2. 1. to 16. c. 3. 6. 7. 1 Tim. 4. 1. to 7. chap. 1. 20. chap 5. 20 21 22. 2 Tim. 2. 16. 17 18. 23 24 25 26. c. 4. 1. to 6. Titus 1. 9. to 15. chapter 3. 9. 10 11. 2 Pet. 2. 1. 2 3. c. 3. 17. 18. 1 Ioh. 4. 2. 3. 2 John 10. 11. Jude 3. 4. c. Revel. 2. 14. 15. 20 21. compared together f Paul would not give way to false Apostles NO NOT FOR AN HOURE that the truth of the Gospell might continue among the Galatians and resisted Peter to his face as soone as ever hee walked disorderly and gave the least countenance to false Teachers though a chiefe Apostle and did not demur upon the matter yea the Churches * of Pergamus and Thyatyra are sharply blamed for suffering some among them to hold the doctrine of Balaam and the Nicolaitans and to suffer Jesabell the Prophetesse to teach and seduce And shall we permit them now without restraint 3 Thirdly Because it is contrary to these received unquestionable Maximes of Divinitie Policie and Morality Principijs obstare Venienti occurrere morbo to withstand the very beginnings of Errors Heresies Mischiefes Schismes to crush these Cockatrices in the shell rather to keep then cast them out Turpius ejicitur quà m non admittitur hostis All wise men hold preventing Physicke best for their bodies states and why not for their souls and Churches since Sero medicina paratur cum mala per longas invaluére moras 4 Fourthly Because contrary to the h Policy practise of most Godly Magistrates Princes Ministers Churches in all Ages Nations which never indulged such liberty to opinions new wayes practises especially to new Church-governments Schismes and Conventicles which he here pleads for set up only by private spirits in opposition to the publick established Church-regelment Indeed in some matters mearly of opinion which are not dangerous or schismaticall some latitude may and must be left to men but matters of Government are such tender things as differences varieties therin cannot be tollerated in one and the selfe same Church and State without infinite inconveniencies and disturbances especially where every Church shall be Independent subject to no other Canons rules but its own peculiar arbitrary Dictates 2 It may be questioned whether the Independent way he there so earnestly pleads for be the way of Christ or not since he neither discovers to us what it is nor produceth any one text to prove it Christs own way nor one example to warrant it in any age but gives us good grounds to suspect it none of his without much scrutiny 1 For first he confesseth i that this way is every where spoken against even by some that would be thought prime men and pillars in the temple of God and insinuates that the Parliament Assembly and generality of the k Ministers and people of the Realm are bent against it Therefore being a new way never yet heard off in the world in any age or Church of Christ and thus generally opposed by our whole Church and State even in these times of Reformation we may l justly suspect it is no way of Christ till we see its approbation written in a beam of the Sun with the finger of God himself and till he hath justified and owned it as his from heaven 2 He tacitly acknowledgeth it a m Government set up by a few private men not only without but against the authority commands of the Parliament and supream temporall Magistrates yea which not only denyes but oppugnes the temporall Magistrates Parliaments Synods directions or coercive power in Ecclesiasticall affairs directly contrary to the Scriptures as I have largely proved by many Texts in my o Independency examined Only I shall adde that not only the Kings and temporall Magistrates of the Israelites but even heathen p Kings and Princes as Cyrus Artaxerxes Darius Nebuchadnezzar the King Nobles of Nineve c. enacted good and wholsom Laws for the worship honor and service of the true God and to further his people in the building of his temple who thereupon were enjoyned to pray for their prosperity as the marginall Scriptures evidence Yea r Paul himselfe even in matters of Religion pleaded his cause before Festus Felix King Agrippa and at last appealed unto Caesar an heathen Emperor herein yea he enjoyns all Christians s to pray even for heathen Kings Magistrates and to submit to all their lawfull commands for conscience sake to whose judicature and tribunals t Christ himself and his Apostels willingly submitted
multitude of the Land yea of a greater power then ever Iesus Christ himselfe had at least then ever he exercised For as dare Râ—…gem argues a greater power then esse Râ—…gem as hee that buildeth an house hath more honour then the house Hebr. 3. 3. so to nominate and appoint who shall have power to umpire in matters of conscience and of God * to determine what shall be preached and what not what shall be beleeved and what not is a branch of a greater root of power then the exercise of the power that is committed to others in this behalfe Now though Iesus Christ had a power and was authorized by God to be a Law-giver himselfe unto his Churches and Saints in their spirituall Republike yet it is hard to prove that he ever he invested any other with such a power His Apostles themselves were no Lords over the faith of the Saints nor had they anie power or authoritie to impose any thing upon men as †necessarie either to be beleeved or practised but what they had in expresse commission and charge from Jesus Christ himselfe to impose upon such termes c. The summe of this large passage is that there is not onelie an improbabilitie but absolute impossibilitie that the Parliament should have any power at all to enact Lawes and Statutes in matters of Religion church-government Gods worship or service because the people who elect them have no such power and so an impossibilitie of deriving any such authoritie to them and to affirme the contrarie is not onely to awake the eyes of jealousie upon them but exceedingly destructive to and undermining of not onely their power but honour peace and safetie also Whether this be not directly to undermine the authority of Parliaments and temporal Magistrates in all church-affairs and matters of Religion contrarie to your late Covenant and Protestation and that in the most transcendent maner that ever any have hitherto attempted in print let all wise men judg I am sory such ill passages should fall from so good a pen But to give a short Answer to this extravagant discourse First this objection might be made against the generall Assemblies Parliament Kings of the Israelites who a were chosen by the people yet they made Lawes and Statutes concerning Religion and Gods worship with his approbation without any such exception as I have elsewhere proved Secondly God himself as I formerly â—…uched used the ministry assistance of Cyrus Artaxerxes Durius with other heathen Princes and Magistrates for the building of his Temple and advancement of his worship for which they made Decrees Statutes notwithstanding this objected reason reflects more upon them and their electors then on such who are Christians by externall profession Thirdly most Christian Kings and Magistrates in the World even those who claime to be hereditary as the yet continued formes of their Coronations and instalments manifest come in by the peoples election as well as such members of Parliament who are eligible yet you cannot without disloialty and absurdity deny them authoritie in matters of Religion and Church-government Fourthly your selfe doe not onely grant but argue b That every private man hath yea ought to have power to elect and constitute his own Minister and no doubt you will grant that private men have power likewise to set up independent Congregations which have authority to prescribe such Covenants Lawes and Rules of Government Discipline Worship as themselves think most agreeable to the Word If then they may derive such an Ecclesiasticall authority to independent Ministers and Churches why not as well to Parliaments and Synods likewise by the self-same reason Fiâ—…hly it is cleare by sundry instances in Scripture and your owne Text that God doth oft times make use of unsanctified persons and the rude multitude whom you so much under-value to advance his glory propagate his Gospel promote his Worship vindicate his Truth and edifie his Church He can poure a spirit of prophesie upon c a Baalam a Saul a Gamaliel a persecuting High-Priest he can make a d Judas an Apostle yea send him to preach and build his Church as well as a Peter Wee read in the Evangelists that none were so forward as the vulgar e multitule to beleeve follow professe Christ and embrace the Gospel though many of them did it out of sinister ends Therefore they may well have power to chuse such persons who shall and may make Lawes to promote the Gospel and Government of the Church of Christ Sixthly those who have no skill at all in Law Physick or Architecture have yet judgment and reason enough to make choice of the best Lawyers Physitians Architects when they need their help Those who are unfit or unable to be members of Parliament themselves as most of the electors are have yet had wisdom enough in all ages and especially at this present to elect the most eminent ablest men for such a service Those who are unmeet to be Kings Magistrates Commanders or Ministers have yet skill enough to chuse able persons for such offices power to delegate to them such Parliamentary Royall Magisteriall Pastorall authority as is necessary for their severall offices which those who elected them never had actually but onely originally or virtually in them not to use but derive them unto others why then may not our free-holders who have voices in electing the members of our Parliaments and the Commonalty of the Land whom you scandalously terme the vilest and most unworthy of men though there be a degree of vulgar people viler and unworthier then they in all respects who have no votes in such elections have sufficient authority in them to elect and nominate such fitte persons who by virtue of such nomination or election shall have right and power to enact Lawes Statutes in matters of Religion Worship and Church-government not dissonant from Gods Word to which themselves and others by Gods owne ordinance must submit If the common people who neither are nor can be Parliaments * Emperors Kings Judges Magistrates Ministers have yet a lawful power to make others such by their bare election to give them such authority and power as themselves never actually were or can be possessors of then why by the self-same reason may they not likewise delegate a lawfull Ecclesiasticall legislative authority in church-affairs to their elected Parliamentary and Synodall Members which was never actually in themselves as well as Mr * Goodwin delegate the power of determining who should be fit persons to receive the Sacrament and to become members of his independent Congregation to eight select substitutes which was never actually vested in himselfe nor transferrible thus to others by any Law of God or man why may not a man bring an ecclesiastical or spiritual extraction out of a secular root contrary to your Paradox as * well as a Râ—…gall Magisteriall Parliamentall Ministeriall extraction out of a