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power_n authority_n bishop_n presbyter_n 4,112 5 10.2023 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A91473 Independency accused by nine severall arguments: written by a godly learned minister, to a member of Mr. John Goodwins congregation, and acquitted by severall replyes to the said arguments by a member of the same church. In both which, sweetnesse of spirit, and soundnesse of arguments have been endeavoured. Published according to order. I. P. 1645 (1645) Wing P53A; Thomason E296_16; ESTC R200209 27,998 39

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say_v before_o and_o not_o scripture_n do_v not_o at_o all_o ease_n this_o business_n for_o that_o must_v first_o be_v prove_v before_o we_o can_v grant_v it_o you_o and_o moreover_o it_o be_v evident_a the_o apostle_n do_v not_o balk_v or_o forbear_v to_o preach_v such_o truth_n as_o be_v every_o whit_n as_o exasperate_a the_o roman_a magistrate_n as_o this_o particular_a you_o speak_v of_o as_o that_o jesus_n be_v both_o lord_n and_o christ_n act_v 2.36_o and_o that_o he_o shall_v put_v down_o all_o rule_n and_o all_o authority_n and_o power_n yea_o and_o that_o he_o shall_v reign_v until_o he_o have_v put_v down_o all_o his_o enemy_n under_o his_o foot_n 1_o cor._n 15.24_o yea_o and_o the_o more_o they_o be_v forbid_v to_o preach_v the_o more_o they_o go_v about_o preach_v not_o regard_v the_o command_n of_o the_o magistrate_n when_o it_o be_v beyond_o the_o line_n of_o his_o just_a authority_n and_o many_o other_o scripture_n of_o this_o nature_n may_v be_v give_v and_o these_o thing_n i_o conceive_v may_v be_v sufficient_a answer_n unto_o your_o 7_o argument_n argum._n viii_o i_o desire_v to_o know_v if_o gamaliel_n have_v give_v the_o council_n this_o advice_n of_o refrain_v and_o let_v alone_o concern_v theudas_n or_o judas_n of_o galilee_n i_o say_v whether_o the_o council_n be_v able_a to_o have_v demonstrate_v they_o and_o their_o way_n erroneous_a they_o ought_v to_o have_v consent_v to_o he_o or_o no_o for_o this_o be_v the_o true_a state_n of_o the_o question_n and_o not_o whether_o the_o minister_n and_o truth_n of_o christ_n may_v be_v suppress_v we_o all_o know_v this_o will_v be_v fight_v against_o god_n to_o run_v a_o hazard_n no_o less_o than_o death_n but_o whether_o a_o council_n find_v a_o generation_n of_o teacher_n err_v from_o the_o truth_n and_o wilful_a in_o their_o error_n must_v then_o let_v they_o alone_o and_o expect_v
pastor_n the_o elder_n the_o deacon_n and_o also_o the_o people_n do_v deliberate_a and_o determine_v of_o thing_n belong_v to_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n 3._o the_o church_n in_o the_o three_o hundred_o year_n cen._n 3._o cap._n 7._o tit._n de_fw-fr synodis_fw-la privatis_fw-la in_o principio_fw-la now_o that_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o the_o great_a church_n over_o the_o less_o be_v establish_v and_o the_o authority_n of_o metropolitane_n determine_v by_o the_o nicene_n council_n yet_o if_o any_o business_n happen_v which_o can_v not_o be_v perfect_v without_o the_o rest_n both_o minister_n &_o people_n than_o they_o come_v together_o and_o dispatch_v they_o with_o common_a advice_n without_o the_o call_n of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o same_o province_n so_o cyprian_n cite_v by_o they_o epist_n l._n 3._o cap._n 10._o from_o the_o beginning_n of_o my_o be_v bishop_n or_o pastor_n i_o determine_v to_o do_v nothing_o without_o your_o counsel_n he_o speak_v to_o the_o elder_n and_o deacon_n nor_o without_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o people_n by_o my_o own_o private_a opinion_n in_o these_o assembly_n in_o other_o church_n there_o be_v few_o order_n make_v by_o the_o bishop_n or_o pastor_n and_o afterward_o approve_v by_o the_o church_n unless_o it_o be_v in_o rome_n according_a to_o the_o efficacy_n of_o the_o mystery_n of_o iniquity_n they_o be_v the_o author_n word_n some_o bishop_n make_v decree_n as_o damasus_n galixtus_fw-la etc._n etc._n by_o all_o which_o it_o appear_v that_o the_o church_n most_o primitive_a be_v ignorant_a of_o any_o necessity_n or_o law_n lie_v on_o they_o to_o be_v govern_v by_o one_o church_n or_o more_o or_o of_o associate_a with_o any_o but_o as_o they_o see_v cause_n and_o by_o the_o law_n of_o charity_n neither_o understand_v there_o be_v any_o provincial_n much_o less_o nationall_n or_o universal_a and_o ministerial_a and_o govern_v church_n which_o must_v by_o way_n of_o authority_n dispose_v of_o all_o the_o affair_n of_o the_o particular_a church_n object_n but_o they_o excommunicate_v in_o their_o assembly_n of_o many_o church_n answ_n 1._o so_o do_v they_o in_o each_o particular_a church_n as_o of_o their_o own_o right_n and_o consult_v not_o with_o other_o unless_o the_o cause_n be_v difficult_a 2._o the_o excommunication_n be_v rather_o of_o the_o opinion_n by_o damn_v and_o condemn_v of_o it_o then_o of_o person_n 3._o if_o there_o be_v such_o excommunication_n of_o person_n yet_o it_o be_v do_v by_o the_o willing_a consent_n of_o the_o church_n or_o else_o for_o themselves_o those_o church_n that_o meet_v not_o for_o other_o unless_o by_o consequent_a that_o he_o who_o be_v excommunicate_v out_o of_o one_o church_n if_o it_o be_v due_o perform_v be_v excommunicate_v out_o of_o all_o argument_n ii_o why_o have_v not_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n a_o power_n to_o set_v up_o and_o establish_v by_o a_o law_n such_o a_o worship_n as_o a_o assembly_n of_o godly_a divine_n shall_v present_v to_o they_o to_o be_v according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n as_o well_o as_o they_o have_v a_o power_n to_o pull_v down_o false_a worship_n popery_n episcopacy_n arminianism_n and_o such_o gross_a error_n and_o innovation_n as_o have_v justle_v out_o the_o true_a servant_n and_o service_n of_o god_n and_o this_o they_o do_v with_o the_o approbation_n and_o acclamation_n of_o all_o those_o that_o profess_v the_o power_n of_o godliness_n of_o what_o way_n or_o sect_n soever_o they_o be_v i_o never_o hear_v of_o any_o such_o that_o accuse_v they_o for_o stretch_v beyond_o their_o line_n therein_o if_o the_o subject_a matter_n of_o political_a administration_n be_v mere_o humane_a matter_n why_o do_v not_o congregationall_a divine_n inform_v they_o as_o much_o but_o be_v silent_a while_o they_o have_v their_o hand_n thrust_v deep_a into_o church-affaire_n and_o thing_n spiritual_a why_o do_v not_o their_o jealousy_n over_o the_o parliament_n break_v out_o when_o they_o see_v they_o begin_v to_o dash_v the_o foot_n against_o that_o stone_n but_o give_v thanks_o to_o god_n for_o they_o &_o their_o do_v but_o now_o when_o they_o have_v come_v to_o set_v up_o and_o it_o prove_v aworship_n against_o their_o judgement_n and_o conscience_n they_o be_v reprove_v and_o have_v no_o power_n at_o all_o in_o thing_n ecclesiastical_a but_o every_o man_n must_v enjoy_v his_o conscience_n worship_n and_o way_n if_o they_o once_o have_v a_o power_n to_o pull_v down_o why_o have_v they_o not_o now_o power_n to_o pull_v down_o in_o the_o like_a case_n with_o the_o like_a proportion_a approbation_n and_o if_o in_o thing_n ecclesiastical_a they_o have_v a_o power_n to_o pull_v down_o why_o not_o to_o set_v up_o too_o that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n shall_v have_v a_o power_n in_o thing_n spiritual_a and_o yet_o no_o power_n be_v a_o mystery_n unto_o i_o reply_n 1._o the_o government_n the_o magistrate_n have_v pull_v down_o be_v erect_v as_o a_o law_n of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o by_o that_o power_n be_v enable_v to_o the_o persecution_n of_o the_o saint_n and_o disturbance_n of_o the_o state_n which_o be_v the_o defection_n of_o the_o magistracy_n of_o these_o time_n now_o when_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v not_o only_o withdraw_v their_o power_n but_o also_o prohibit_v the_o further_a exercise_n thereof_o in_o the_o persecution_n of_o the_o saint_n and_o disturbance_n of_o the_o state_n we_o suppose_v it_o be_v no_o more_o than_o according_a to_o their_o just_a power_n and_o therefore_o do_v rejoice_v therein_o 2._o the_o magistrate_n just_a do_v any_o thing_n according_a to_o the_o joint_a consent_n desire_v approbation_n and_o congratulatory_a acclamation_n of_o all_o the_o saint_n be_v no_o good_a argument_n to_o prove_v a_o lawful_a power_n in_o the_o magistrate_n to_o do_v thing_n contrary_a to_o the_o joint_a consent_n desire_n etc._n etc._n of_o all_o the_o saint_n herod_n and_o pilate_n felix_n and_o agrippa_n have_v a_o just_a power_n to_o release_n christ_n and_o paul_n etc._n etc._n but_o that_o do_v not_o argue_v that_o their_o power_n be_v just_a in_o deliver_v they_o up_o unto_o whip_v imprisonment_n death_n etc._n etc._n it_o be_v indeed_o potentia_fw-la but_o not_o potestas_fw-la might_n but_o not_o right_o and_o it_o be_v the_o latter_a i_o suppose_v that_o you_o mean_v 3._o we_o do_v never_o deny_v the_o magistrate_n a_o lawful_a power_n to_o intermeddle_v with_o that_o kind_n of_o church-government_n or_o doctrine_n opinion_n or_o practice_n which_o shall_v most_o dangerous_o intermeddle_v with_o the_o state_n itself_o and_o thereby_o prove_v evident_o hurtful_a and_o apparent_o destructive_a thereunto_o and_o so_o do_v the_o government_n whereof_o you_o speak_v which_o be_v the_o ground_n of_o that_o act_n of_o abolish_n the_o same_o when_o congregationall_a or_o presbyterial_a government_n or_o the_o professor_n thereof_o be_v find_v in_o their_o principle_n and_o general_a practice_n underminer_n of_o the_o peace_n and_o welfare_n of_o the_o kingdom_n raise_v up_o war_n and_o trouble_n to_o maintain_v the_o same_o it_o be_v high_a time_n for_o the_o magistrate_n who_o be_v main_o to_o mind_n salutem_fw-la populi_fw-la to_o pull_v they_o down_o and_o no_o long_o to_o tolerate_v the_o same_o and_o such_o be_v the_o instance_n which_o you_o speak_v of_o 4._o those_o christian_a or_o unchristian_a magistrate_n may_v have_v a_o lawful_a power_n and_o authority_n to_o destroy_v antichrist_n which_o may_v have_v no_o lawful_a authority_n to_o appoint_v law_n and_o rule_n for_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n of_o jesus_n christ_n and_o to_o enforce_v the_o same_o contrary_n to_o their_o judgement_n and_o conscience_n cyrus_n may_v have_v a_o just_a warrant_n from_o god_n for_o the_o ruine_n of_o babylon_n but_o not_o for_o the_o compulsion_n of_o zion_n to_o worship_n god_n according_a to_o his_o thought_n of_o the_o will_n of_o god_n therein_o all_o magistrate_n may_v and_o aught_o to_o assist_v and_o preserve_v the_o church_n of_o jesus_n christ_n from_o those_o that_o will_v ruin_v and_o destroy_v they_o but_o that_o any_o magistrate_n have_v power_n to_o compel_v the_o saint_n of_o god_n what_o to_o believe_v in_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o what_o to_o practise_v in_o matter_n of_o immediate_a worship_n especial_o in_o thing_n that_o be_v of_o a_o intricate_a and_o deep_a cognizance_n and_o controversall_a among_o the_o godly_a learned_a which_o be_v the_o main_a business_n in_o hand_n between_o the_o presbyterian_a and_o independent_a party_n be_v beyond_o any_o ground_n that_o i_o can_v yet_o perceive_v from_o the_o scripture_n but_o we_o shall_v meet_v with_o this_o again_o in_o another_o of_o your_o argument_n argum._n iii_o why_o do_v not_o our_o congregationall_a divine_n write_v to_o the_o brethren_n of_o new-england_n and_o convince_v they_o of_o their_o error_n who_o give_v as_o some_o say_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n a_o power_n to_o question_v doctrine_n censure_v error_n
sure_o we_o be_v some_o have_v be_v imprison_v some_o banish_v that_o plead_v religion_n and_o mere_a conscience_n and_o be_v not_o otherwise_o disturber_n of_o the_o civil_a peace_n than_o the_o congregationall_a way_n be_v like_a to_o be_v here_o so_o that_o if_o our_o magistrate_n and_o presbyter_n must_v be_v rule_v by_o gamaliels_n advice_n and_o suffer_v all_o opinion_n till_o god_n disclaim_v and_o fight_v against_o they_o from_o heaven_n why_o be_v not_o his_o advice_n send_v over_o to_o they_o lest_o they_o shall_v fight_v against_o any_o way_n that_o call_v god_n father_n if_o old-england_n be_v say_v to_o persecute_v for_o suppress_v sect_n and_o opinion_n because_o threaten_v the_o truth_n and_o civil_a peace_n why_o may_v not_o the_o same_o name_n be_v put_v upon_o new-england_n who_o be_v find_v in_o the_o same_o work_n and_o way_n and_o if_o both_o he_o guilty_a it_o be_v wisdom_n and_o piety_n for_o our_o congregationall_a divine_n to_o east_n the_o first_o stone_n at_o themselves_o i_o mean_v their_o congregationall_a brethren_n to_o convince_v and_o persuade_v they_o to_o suffer_v all_o opinion_n among_o they_o this_o will_v be_v a_o argument_n that_o they_o walk_v in_o all_o simplicity_n and_o sincerity_n of_o spirit_n prefer_v god_n will_v and_o the_o naked_a truth_n above_o any_o end_n of_o their_o own_o whereof_o some_o suspect_v they_o how_o just_o god_n the_o searcher_n of_o heart_n know_v and_o next_o their_o argument_n and_o persuasion_n will_v be_v more_o easy_o receive_v at_o home_n reply_n this_o be_v a_o argument_n or_o rather_o a_o insinuation_n to_o the_o accuse_v of_o our_o brethren_n then_o to_o the_o find_v out_o the_o truth_n but_o to_o this_o i_o answer_v first_o in_o relation_n to_o our_o brethren_n practice_n in_o new-england_n i_o answer_v you_o in_o this_o case_n as_o the_o father_n of_o the_o blind_a man_n answer_v the_o pharisee_n about_o the_o manner_n of_o procure_v his_o son_n sight_n job_n 9.21_o he_o be_v of_o age_n ask_v he_o so_o say_v i_o they_o be_v able_a to_o answer_v for_o themselves_o if_o not_o they_o stand_v or_o fall_v to_o their_o own_o master_n but_o second_o i_o suppose_v it_o be_v easy_a to_o affirm_v then_o to_o prove_v that_o any_o be_v imprison_v or_o banish_v mere_o for_o their_o conscience_n we_o have_v a_o common_a proverb_n that_o untruth_n lose_v nothing_o by_o distance_n of_o place_n and_o by_o often_o report_v some_o affirm_v it_o have_v be_v so_o as_o you_o say_v other_o deny_v the_o same_o for_o my_o part_n because_o i_o have_v more_o reason_n to_o believe_v the_o one_o than_o the_o other_o because_o the_o magistrate_n themselves_o deny_v any_o persecution_n mere_o for_o a_o man_n private_a conscience_n in_o the_o case_n of_o m_o rs_fw-fr hutchison_n see_v the_o book_n the_o rise_n and_o end_n of_o antinomianism_n in_o new-england_n p._n 46._o of_o the_o first_o edition_n i_o have_v rather_o look_v unto_o these_o thing_n that_o do_v concern_v we_o at_o home_n then_o to_o go_v so_o far_o to_o accuse_v our_o brethren_n abroad_o three_o i_o humble_o suppose_v it_o be_v out_o of_o your_o certain_a knowledge_n that_o the_o congregationall_a divine_n have_v not_o at_o all_o write_v unto_o their_o brethren_n of_o new-england_n about_o this_o business_n and_o have_v not_o receive_v satisfaction_n herein_o i_o suppose_v likewise_o i_o have_v as_o much_o reason_n if_o not_o more_o to_o affirm_v that_o they_o have_v as_o you_o that_o they_o have_v not_o but_o four_o suppose_v they_o have_v not_o write_v this_o will_v prove_v but_o the_o remissness_n of_o their_o duty_n at_o the_o most_o and_o will_v not_o facilitate_v and_o ease_v the_o business_n in_o the_o least_o doubtless_o the_o presbyterian_a party_n in_o other_o part_n of_o the_o world_n not_o all_o thing_n according_a to_o the_o mind_n of_o god_n even_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o brethren-presbyterians_a of_o this_o nation_n and_o if_o so_o may_v not_o the_o same_o thing_n be_v retort_v upon_o they_o which_o you_o do_v here_o upon_o these_o five_o as_o for_o those_o jealousy_n which_o you_o say_v be_v in_o some_o about_o the_o congregationall_a brethren_n simplicity_n and_o sincerity_n of_o spirit_n in_o prefer_v god_n will_v and_o the_o naked_a truth_n above_o any_o end_n of_o their_o own_o as_o god_n royal_a prerogative_n in_o search_v all_o heart_n shall_v stifle_v such_o misprision_n and_o quit_v all_o such_o unworthy_a surmising_n till_o better_a proof_n appear_v so_o any_o man_n reason_n not_o master_v with_o prejudice_n and_o discontent_n shall_v full_o discharge_v all_o such_o vain_a unworthy_a and_o uncharitable_a imagination_n concern_v their_o brethren_n for_o except_v man_n end_n and_o aim_n shall_v be_v sorrow_n trouble_n reproach_n and_o contempt_n perplexity_n and_o misery_n penury_n and_o want_n what_o other_o end_n can_v they_o have_v be_v not_o some_o of_o these_o for_o the_o present_a and_o all_o of_o they_o for_o the_o future_a the_o threaten_a issue_n product_n and_o consequence_n of_o their_o way_n and_o practice_n sure_o man_n shall_v make_v a_o better_a use_n of_o their_o own_o personal_a weakness_n viz._n their_o own_o sinful_a end_n and_o aim_n and_o by-respect_n in_o their_o own_o heart_n then_o to_o make_v they_o the_o measure_n and_o rule_v to_o judge_v of_o their_o brethren_n heart_n by_o every_o man_n shall_v think_v better_o of_o his_o brother_n then_o of_o himself_o sure_o the_o man_n of_o their_o jealousy_n be_v not_o usual_o steer_v up_o and_o down_o from_o one_o place_n to_o another_o by_o the_o golden_a lure_n of_o a_o hundred_o or_o two_o or_o three_o hundred_o a_o year_n as_o many_o of_o their_o censorious_a judge_n be_v but_o it_o be_v worthy_a our_o observation_n the_o saint_n of_o our_o most_o high_a god_n many_o time_n be_v chief_o charge_v for_o those_o thing_n whereof_o they_o be_v least_o guilty_a and_o where_o they_o be_v most_o innocent_a and_o therefore_o most_o able_a to_o bear_v the_o same_o thus_o joseph_n for_o incontinency_n elisha_n for_o the_o troubler_n of_o israel_n though_o indeed_o the_o horseman_n and_o chariot_n of_o israel_n thus_o david_n for_o seek_v saul_n life_n who_o heart_n smite_v he_o for_o but_o cut_v off_o one_o of_o the_o skirt_n of_o his_o garment_n thus_o jesus_n christ_n for_o a_o deceiver_n who_o be_v the_o truth_n itself_o and_o for_o a_o familiar_a with_o the_o prince_n of_o the_o devil_n who_o be_v indeed_o the_o great_a enemy_n to_o he_o and_o his_o work_n and_o as_o it_o be_v from_o the_o beginning_n so_o it_o be_v now_o the_o humble_a the_o meek_a the_o simplehearted_n the_o peaceable_a the_o most_o forward_o for_o reformation_n yea_o when_o their_o zeal_n therein_o cast_v they_o into_o imprisonment_n sorrow_n trouble_n etc._n etc._n these_o man_n i_o say_v be_v under_o jealousy_n nay_o evident_a and_o express_a censure_n of_o be_v proud_a perverse_a deceitful_a disturber_n of_o the_o peace_n of_o the_o state_n hinderer_n of_o reformation_n with_o many_o such_o like_a and_o unworthy_a reproach_n but_o the_o faithful_a witness_n and_o judge_n of_o all_o heart_n will_v one_o day_n bring_v forth_o their_o innocency_n as_o the_o light_n and_o in_o the_o mean_a while_n support_v their_o spirit_n under_o all_o those_o hard_a speech_n thought_n and_o calumny_n of_o this_o world_n argum._n iu._n titus_n 1.10_o 11._o there_o be_v many_o unruly_a talker_n and_o deceiver_n who_o subvert_v whole_a house_n teach_v thing_n which_o they_o ought_v not_o who_o mouth_n must_v be_v stop_v but_o church-censure_n or_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n will_v not_o stop_v their_o mouth_n for_o as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o apologetical_a narration_n they_o be_v of_o another_o way_n and_o judgement_n it_o bind_v not_o their_o conscience_n and_o so_o dare_v pish_o at_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n of_o excommunication_n let_v the_o presbyterian_o pronounce_v a_o sentence_n against_o congregationall_a church_n or_o let_v congregationall_a church_n pronounce_v any_o sentence_n against_o presbyterian_o antinomian_o anabaptist_n who_o will_v teach_v thing_n as_o they_o think_v which_o they_o ought_v not_o and_o see_v when_o this_o sentence_n stop_v their_o mouth_n but_o paul_n say_v their_o mouth_n must_v be_v stop_v church-censure_n do_v it_o not_o therefore_o if_o they_o must_v be_v stop_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n must_v strike_v in_o to_o stop_v they_o else_o they_o will_v ever_o be_v open_a to_o subvert_v whole_a house_n in_o the_o apostle_n time_n what_o church-censure_n can_v not_o reach_v to_o be_v leave_v to_o the_o power_n and_o providence_n of_o god_n to_o subdue_v and_o master_n and_o supply_v the_o office_n of_o a_o magistrate_n but_o now_o when_o god_n have_v blessed_v a_o christian_a commonwealth_n with_o a_o christian_a magistrate_n if_o church-censure_n will_v not_o stop_v deceiver_n mouth_n but_o still_o they_o will_v subvert_v man_n precious_a soul_n the_o magistrate_n must_v exercise_v