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A36143 A Disputation proving that it is not convenient to grant unto ministers secular jurisdiction, and to make them lords & statesmen in Parliament 1679 (1679) Wing D1677; ESTC R15032 30,674 38

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are ancient is to say they are more odious and call for the more deep repentance and speedy and sound and through reformation 26. There are in this as in most other cases two extreams which be alike equi-distant from the true and right mean The one is to make no use at all of Divines nor to consult with them in any case This I take to be a dangerous extream contrary to the light of nature the true office and institution of the Ministry and that duty which all Christian Princes and Parliaments and People do owe to the Lord Jesus Christ unto whom they are vowed and sworn to observe his Laws and to be sincerely subject to his government in all things And he doth govern his Church by Pastors Teachers and spiritual Overseers with whom all persons of what degree and rank soever they be are to advise and consult not in every small and little matter but in cases of weight and concernment if they cannot otherwise satisfie themselves as they will do with Lawyers about their Estates and Physicians about their Bodies The Papists do grosly tyrannize over all both Kings and Subjects by binding them to make a particular recitation or confession of their sins to their Priests at certain times frequently thereby making themselves Masters in some sort of mens consciences and unjustly privy to their secrets and abusing the name authority and ordinance of Christ to rigour and tyranny and thereby deceiving and deluding souls into much superstition vassalage and hypocrisie To avoid which Anti-papists have run into a quite contrary extream forgetting of what daily and standing use and concernment Gods Ministers are both to persons and societies The Priests lips are to keep knowledg and the people are to seek the Law at their mouth Mal. 2.7 When the Philistines were to send back the Ark they consulted with their Priests and Diviners 1 Sam. 6.2 Ministers are not only to be heard in publick but to be consulted with in private and to be made use of in all cases and questions Ecclesiastical which concern the general interest of the Church its holiness and its unity and which cannot well and soundly be determined without the assistance advice and direction of impartial wise and holy Divines I am so far from being against this that rather I judge it a common errour and mispractice in Christian States as well as particular persons that they do not make that due and godly use of Ministers and Divines which they ought to do whence it is that they do so often miscarry in their ways and counsels because they do too much lean to their own understandings and either consult not at all with Gods Ministers or if they do they consult with those only which are partial and unfaithful or they do treacherously and hypocritically conceal something of the case from them or do like the Papists which make confession a meer ceremony resting in the work done imitating her in Prov. 7.14 People can send for Ministers to advise with upon their sick-beds they should do it when they are in health There is Parliament humility and self-denial which Jesus Christ doth bind all Christian States and Rulers to Luk. 9.23 The long Parliament had their Assembly of Divines 27. The other extream is of making more and further use of Ministers than need requires and than will stand with the prudence conveniency and quality of their work and calling and in making an undue disparity and inequality among Ministers and Divines appointing some to be Lords and Dominators over the rest advancing them too high in worldly dignities authority and preferment and thereby establishing pride and partiality It is grounded upon a mistake which is that by Gods Law Bishops and Arch-bishops have a majority of power and jurisdiction above the rest of the Pastors though they excel or be equal to the Bishops and Arch-bishops in true wisdom and holiness and Ministerial graces and diligence whereas it is evident from the very nature of the thing it self that a Bishop and Overseer of Souls are but two names for the same thing and that to be an Arch-bishop is to be Episcoporum primus an eminent Presbyter the chief of all the Bishops Presbyters and Pastors not that he hath a greater commission than they The authority and commission of Bishops Pastors and Ministers is but one Matt. 28.19 20 and it consisteth in these three 1. An authority to Christianize Souls and admit Disciples into the Family of Christ which is his Church by Baptism 2. An authority to use them as Disciples and Members of the Family when admitted by seeding them with knowledg and understanding watching over them and doing all necessary and convenient episcopal and pastoral acts and offices to them 3. An authority to discommon and cast out of the Family by penal and juridicial Church-censures contumacious and grosly disorderly livers whom no other remedies will amend 28. This threefold authority every right ordained Presbyter or Parish Minister hath and no Arch-bishop or Bishop hath more for more is not necessary nor is there any place for more And less will not suffice to make a man a compleat Pastor and Christ makes no incompleat Pastors Qui aliquid alicui concedit concedit id sine quo res ipsa nequit concedi He that gives the end doth includedly give the due and regular and subservient means And Qui adimit medium destruit finem We must not for fear of making every Pastor a Pope deny him to be a Pastor Grant him to be a Pastor and thereby you grant unto him pastoral power and then you grant him authority to cast out as well as to take in to have an expulsive as well a a receptive faculty Ministers may abuse their authority so also may Magistrates Parents c. But is that any ground to deny them the authority of Magistrates and Parents If they be not fit to be trusted with the pastoral office let them not be Pastors at all If they be fit to be Pastors let them be compleat pastors An incompleat Pastor is terminus diminuens No Scripture nor sound Reason doth give any warrant for making men but half-Bishops half-Pastors and Presbyters I say again That an Arch-bishop is but an eminent Presbyter as Peter among the Apostles or as the foreman of the jury The rest of the Apostles are compleat Apostles as well as Peter and have equal commission and authority The rest of the Jury are jurors as well as the Foreman and are equal judges of the fact True it is that among Apostles and Pastors who be equal as to Office and Commission there may be much inequality as to gifts and graces and faithful and wise execution of their office As all Parents have alike authority over their Children but all Parents are not alike wise and good and officious in their places unto some God giveth ten talents unto some five unto some two unto all at least one And it is
to be supream Magistrates and Judges under and with the King in the House of Lords and to have jurisdiction and lordship proper to Magistrates and supream coercive Judges and to the Nobility Peers and Princes in Parliament this I hold to be extra episcopal to be a swerving from the simplicity that is in Christ and an undue prelation of Pastors above Pastors and a deformity added to the beauty and lustre of simple Episcopacy and it is a cause of more evil than good and upon a just computation of all both conveniences and inconveniences it will be found a truth that Church and State have been both losers that Bishops and Arch-bishops themselves who have had such external honours preeminences and authorities have been losers in their Souls by them and that it had been better for all sides that they had kept in the station and quality of simple Bishops and Divines 36. The Arch-bishops and Bishops with us have three Ordinations first they are ordained Presbyters then they are ordained Bishops then they are ordained Arch-bishops Now these two last Ordinations are rather nullities and corruptions and do suppose that there is a majority and superiority of power in Bishops over Presbyters and in Arch-bishops over Bishops and the next step must be in the Pope over all For to be a Bishop and Shepherd over all the Souls and Shepherds which be in England is a vice of the very same kind with that of the Popes who says he is Christs Vicar upon Earth and Bishop over all the Bishops and Souls which be in the world which is to claim and usurp the office of Jesus Christ and to attempt the doing of that which is absolutely impossible It is indeed more impossible for one man to be Bishop and Pastor over all the Souls and Bishops which be in the world than it is for one man to be Bishop and Pastor over all the Souls and Pastors which be in England Both be alike simply impossible though the one is more impossible than the other And they do both savour of proud self ignorance and gross affectation and self-seeking as though one man could be in a thousand places at once Baptizing Preaching giving the Lords-supper visiting the sick instructing souls and doing all other the acts and offices of a Scripture-Bishop and Spiritual Overseer of Souls Act. 20.28 To the creating of a Bishop or Arch bishop there needs no more but an election and nomination of him to the place as is done by the House of Commons when they chuse a Speaker His office is no more but to be as the Foreman of the Quest If he have not wisdom holiness and Ministerial worth and usefulness answerable to his name he is but an Arch-bishop in name he is rather a post or cypher than a man 37. Also our Prelates do take upon them to be Ecclesiastical Legislators and Canon-makers to all the Churches and to all other Pastors and they constitute them a Lay-Chancellour and require of all the Clergy an Oath or solemn promise of Canonical obedience to them and their Chancellors They call their Chancellor their Vicar in spirituals and unto him is committed the power of discipline and jurisdiction ecclesiastical over all both Clergy and Laity and the Church-Canons are his Law and Rule which being too crooked for honest men to conform to he spares not to excommunicate them and upon a significavit made by him into the Chancery out comes an Excommunicato capiendo and the party must either go to Prison all his days without Bail or make his composition much to his shame or damage or both And Excommunications and Absolutions in the Bishops Court are bought and sold for money and the worst men are spared and countenanced while the best men are harassed and anathematized and accursed from Christ and his Kingdom 38. Now the Bishops being conscious to themselves that this kind of prelacy and domination and jurisdiction is not good and equal but rather like the Popes supremacy over all and those whom the Holy Ghost brands Nehem. 5.15 who ruled over Gods people by their Servants as now the Bishops do by their Vicars Substitutes and Chancellors but so did not good Nehemiah because of the fear of God They I say being sensible hereof do get to be Princes and Lords and Statesmen in Parliament and thereby insinuate themselves with the Soveraign and with such of the Nobles and Gentry as love to be flatter'd and smoothly dealt with and by this means establish to themselves and to their Chancellors worldly and carnal jurisdiction and dominate over their Brethren and become the Authors of Sects and Factions and hinder the holiness the unity and concord of the Churches and rather than they shall not be Lord-bishop and partial and factious and busie bodies in Parliament Church and State must suffer and the common quiet be indangered They will not endure to be upon equal ground with their Brethren as wise and good as themselves as the Pope will not abide to be touch'd in his supremacy 39. I shall add this one word of caution Though it be not expedient that Bishops be made Magistrates and Pastors trusted with the Sword yet it is fit that Magistrates be Magistrates and not Cyphers and that they do not bear the Sword in vain and that they do back the power and authority of the Ministry and countenance and uphold the sacred Office by being a terror to evil doers and a praise and defence to them that do well There ought to be a due temperament of Magistracy and Ministry that we might lead a peaceable and quiet life in all godliness and honesty Though the Sword is not Go●s Ordinance for the conversion of souls yet it is Gods Ordinance for the punishing of vice and protection of vertue outwardly and for the just encouragement of worthy Pastors and the discouragement of the unworthy Anciently God did lead his people by the hand of Moses and Aaron they both made but one hand And it is a Law of universal equity binding all Christian Commonwealths Judges and magistrates shalt thou make thee in all thy gates which the Lord thy God giveth thee throughout thy tribes and they shall judg thy people with just judgment Deut. 16.18 And as there ought to be a sufficient Ministry in every Parish so also there ought to be a due proportion and contemperament of coercive Judges and revenging Magistrates in Cities Towns and Parishes that the people might have both Law and Gospel means for their Souls and means for their outward peace and safety nigh at hand It was the custom in England anciently for the Bishop and the Sheriff who was then called Earl of the County and was supream Magistrate under the King in the County to go in Circuit all over the County the one to teach the people Religion and the way of good living and to visit all the Churches and the other to decide civil Causes and to chastise and correct
4.1 2. Acts 20.28 31. Col. 1.28 2 Thes 2.11 Gen. 31.40 Act. 15.6 Mat. 18.17 he is personally to instruct and catechise and confer with all of his charge he is to visit the sick he is to admonish reprove comfort counsel warn and charge every one night and day with tears as a Father his Children he is to assist in neighbour-meetings and Church-associations of Pastors and Brethren for concord and communion he is to hear all such Causes as need due and regular discipline And is any one man able to do all this as it should be done to any of those Parishes in City o● Country which abound with multitudes of Souls that would find work for many Minsters to do it faithfully as it should be done Whereas if there be one in a Parish and in some one with a Reader or Curate that is thought enough I confess at that rate that many do the work of the Ministry it is an easie matter for one man to be a Pastour to a Parish of a dozen Miles compass in the Countrey and St. Giles's in the Fields St. Martins Stepney and Cripple-gate in the City of London But to do the work of a Pastour faithfully and entirely to all the Souls within any one of these and such like Parishes would require a whole Colledg and combination of Ministers We see in a Troop of Horse of but some fourty or fifty men there is a Captain and a Lieutenant besides other Officers In a Regiment of Fifteen hundred much more of fifteen thousand what a vast number of Officers are there Captains over thousands Captains over hundreds Captains over fifties and Captains 〈◊〉 tens Deut. 1. 15. Every tenth man was to have a Captain or Officer But there is many a Parish in England that may have Ten thousand Souls in it and but one or two Pastours appointed to look to all these fouls When King Solomon built his Temple He set threescore and ten thousand to be bearers of burdens and fourscore thousand to be hewers in the mountains and three thousand and six hundred to be overseers to set the people a work 2 Chron. 2.18 But in the building of the Lords spiritual Temple there is not one Pastour to a thousand Souls in many Parishes of England I know many will think there are too many Ministers I think there are to many bad ones but I never read or heard of any Kingdom or place or people to this day that had too many faithful Ministers And I shall think it a holy and happy time when such a thing is but I despair to see it in this world Were it not that there are not Ministers enough to do all the pastoral work of each Congregation I should think most of the godly Ministers in England notoriously guilty before God of gross neglect and unfaithfulness for want of personal and private oversight of all their people though I think a great deal more might be done by many than ordinarily is Well then there being so great a want of Ministers and no want of Magistrates would you have Ministers to turn Magistrates too must those few that are be hindered and distracted by calling them off to worldly and secular businesses Is it not enough that Ministers have more work upon their hands than they can do and would you make them more and that too diverting and alien work extra Episcopal and almost if not altogether pragmatical work What is this but to serve Satan in the name of Christ and under pretence of Order to pull down Order and make the Church more low and weak by much than it is The holy Apostles of our Lord were of another mind when they saw they could not both look to the corporal necessities of the poor and the spiritual necessities of Souls too they contrived an expedient for both They appointed a new office of Deacons in the Church to see to the bodily necessities of the poor but say they We will give our selves continually to prayer and to the ministry of Gods word Act. 6.2 4. Far unlike to those that leave the Word of God and Prayer and give themselves to the doing of worldly matters and secular businesses and teach men so and plead for it as their priviledg and a means of advantaging the Church and of promoting holiness and peace Non tali auxilis nec defensoribus istis tempus eget 15. Arg. 8. Those who maintain it to be good to have Clergy-men armed with secular jurisdiction do urge for reason the practise of the ancient Bishops and Churches for the first three hundred years while the Church was without Christian Princes and Magistrates It was usual in those times for the people to refer their dissentions about worldly things to the decision and arbitration of their Bishops who to prevent going to Law before Heathen Magistrates and to prevent and compose differences and strifes and keep peace among their people would give themselves the trouble to hear and arbitrate Causes and Pleas and worldly differences referred to them And hence it is argued that if it was lawful for Clergy-men to be Arbitrators and elected Judges to decide between brethren it is lawful for Clergy-men to be Judges made and constituted by authority and commission from the higer powers 16. As to this I take it to be true as to matter of fact that it was usual for the Bishops of those times to hear and arbitrate civil Causes and Rights And it grew by occasion I was a saying by a misconstruction of the Apostles words 1 Cor. 6.5 I speak to your shame Is it so that there is not a wise man amongst you no not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren Thinking none more wise and consequently more fit to arbitrate and decide their Causes than their Bishops And this continuing to the time of Constantine and he finding them in possession thereof continued it to them and confirmed it in their hands by Law which was the beginning of Clergy-mens lordliness and domination the fruits and consequents whereof have been very calamitous to the Church ever since 17. I have many things to say as to this As 1. That it is very likely the ancient Bishops who took upon them this trouble of hearing and arbitrating the civil Rights and Causes of their people did it with no joy they were not fond of it they thought it a burden and if they might have had their choice would rather have been free from all such trouble So much is intimated in a passage which Davenant in his Determ quest 11. aforenamed quoteth out of Augustine They did not esteem them priviledges or easements but molestias for so are Augustines words as cited molestations and troubles But the Bishops and Clergy of our times seek them contend for them and are tenacious of such things as priviledges 2. Either the Bishops imployed in the hearing and arbitrating those Causes were the same with our Diocesan Bishop or they were