Eldership over them and not severall Elderships for the severall companies and not being tied any of them to come to any one place more then another it doth no more argue they were many congregations or hinder their being one though inconvenient to be governed by reason of its vastnesse then it doth in Holland where the case is so or then in some great parishes in and about London where though they meet in one place yet cannot meet all together by reason of the multitude being above 10000. in some parishes unlesse at severall times if it were so that they had been Presbyteriall in a city yet it is far different from that government that makes many towns cities one Church and drawes them to subjection to one common Presbytery and that in ordinary against which many Reasons might be given though the other were admitted Thirdly If the Churches of those times had not so judged that the Way the Apostles left Churches in was to be their pattern as it had been easie for them to order it as afterward their posterity did into Episcopacie so had it been more advantage and ease to them to have united many Churches together into one body and to set one Councell and President over it for the suppressing of Heresies Schismes c. which yet they did not till times grew more corrupt and which at this day is the state of the Papacie Fourthly Though this might suffice yet I shall now shew you how it might come to passe that this received truth might be lost and no notice left of any contending for it First greater truths then this of government have been stolen from the Church without any great reluctancy As far as appears as the reading of the Scriptures by the people transubstantiation of the bread in the Sacrament adoration of the Host the Masse it self taking the cup from the people c. which the subtilty of men taking advantage by the negligence and cowardise of the people brought in without much opposition till long after Secondly the monuments of antiquity in this kinde are very defective first by the notable carelesnesse of Writers in those times of which Ludovicus apud Illyricum in Refutat Brin pag. 15. an Author of no mean credit complains It is a singular grief to me saith he when I call to minde how diligently the actions of Alexander Scipio Annibal Pompey Cesar Socrates Plato Aristotle and other Captains and Philosophers have been noted that there is no perill of their perishing but the doings of the Apostles except such as are set down in sacred Scripture Martyrs and Saints of our Religion yea and of the Church it self whether growing up or at full age are covered in deep silence for these things which are written excepting a few only are corrupted with feigned inventions c. thus hee a man by profession a Papist Secondly because of the prevalencie of the Romish faction whereby all monuments almost that seemed to oppose the intended usurpation as the ancient government of the Churches especially did were either spupressed or some way violated as amongst many others Dr. James hath discovered at large in his book entituled The Corruption of Fathers c. But Lastly to give you a more direct answer there have not been wanting defendents of the liberties of the Churches in this particular for seeing it is evident by the first second and third particular in this answer that both in the Apostles times and next ages after the Churches were governed each by themselves as in respect of authority out of their own body if there were any that resisted those that invaded that liberty those are the examples of suffering or at least contesting for this government but the Bishops were the first that usurped the power of many Churches in ordinary and these were often resisted by word writing and fact as appeares not only by Aerius who was counted an Heretique for his labour but also by Jerom who saith that Bishops were brought in to prevent Heresies and Schismes but that the Churches were anciently governed by the joynt counsell of the Elders Now this was either by the Elders of the same Church or if with others it was a conjunction by way of Christian fellowship and society not by jurisdiction authority and necessity as wee saw before I adde that the sufferings of so many in opposition to Papall government even in the ancient times is an argument in a negative sense that there hath been sufferings for Church-government because they would not submit to a false government To conclude this argument I shall endeavour at better leisure to give you some particular instances out of the story which maymore fully satisfie this Querie Insigniores Ecclesiae c. They which were more eminent Churches say they were in some honour because of the Apostles that taught in them and because of their Ministers that were more excellent for learning and constancy and likewise of the benefits that those Churches did afford to other neighbour Churches but they had no other power over other Churches then by mutuall offices in things belonging to the edification of the whole Church to afford them their help and then instances in particular Churches 2. The Churches in the next age after the Apostles Cent. 2. cap. 7. titul de consociatione Ecclesiarum Caeterum si quis probatos autores c. If say they any man look into the approved Authors of this age hee shall find that the form of government was almost like a popular government for every Church had equall power to preach the Word of God purely to administer the Sacraments to absolve and excommunicate heretiques and wicked men to elect call and ordain Ministers and upon sufficient grounds to depose them to call assemblies and Synods in doubtfull things and that were controversall to require the opinions of others to judge and determine them Further the neighbour Churches for charity and edification sake not for any superiour jurisdiction but for the command of Christ concerning mutuall love in their necessity craved the help of their neighbour Churches and also afforded theirs to them in more weighty questions all the Churches or Elders of that Province or else the most of the Teachers came together and determined by common advice what was to be done for the faithfull in Asia saith Eusebius quoted by them in that place came often from many places together and examined the new doctrines and pronounced them wicked and rejecting the heresie they cast and excommunicated it out of the Church The Churches that were farther off in other Provinces consult with other Churches by letters which they did generally or by common consent subscribe this new prophesie saith Serapin in Euseb cited by the Cent. is refuted and rejected by all the brotherhood which is in all the world Tit. de Synodis privat each Church that things might be better ordered had their Synod or assemblies or Church-meetings in which the Rector or
sure we are some have been imprisoned some banished that pleaded Religion and meere conscience and were no otherwise disturbers of the civill peace then the Congregationall Way is like to be here So that if our Magistrates and Presbyters must be ruled by Gamaliels advice and suffer all opinions till God disclaim and fight against them from heaven why is not his advice sent over to them lest they should fight against any Way that calls God father If Old-England be said to persecute for suppressing Sects and Opinions because threatning the truth and civill peace why may not the same name be put upon New-England who are found in the same work and Way and if both he guilty 't were wisdome and piety for our Congregationall Divines to east the first stone at themselves I mean their Congregationall Brethren to convince and perswade them to suffer all Opinions amongst them this would be an argument that they walk in all simplicity and sincerity of spirit preferring Gods will and the naked truth above any ends of their own whereof some suspect them how justly God the searcher of hearts knowes and next their arguments and perswasions would be more easily received at home REPLY THis is an Argument or rather an Insinuation to the accusing of our Brethren then to the finding out the truth but to this I answer First in relation to our Brethrens practice in New-England I answer you in this case as the father of the blind man answered the Pharisees about the manner of procuring his sons sight Job 9.21 He is of age ask him so say I they are able to answer for themselves if not they stand or fall to their own Master But Secondly I suppose it is easier to affirm then to prove that any were imprisoned or banished meerely for their consciences wee have a common Proverb That untruths lose nothing by distance of place and by often reporting some affirm it hath been so as you say others deny the same for my part because I have more reason to believe the one then the other because the Magistrates themselves deny any persecution meerly for a mans private conscience in the case of M rs Hutchison See the book the rise and end of Antinomianisme in New-England p. 46. of the first Edition I had rather looke unto these things that do concern us at home then to go so far to accuse our brethren abroad Thirdly I humbly suppose it is out of your certain knowledge that the Congregationall Divines have not at all written unto their Brethren of New-England about this business and have not received satisfaction herein I suppose likewise I have as much reason if not more to affirm that they have as you that they have not But Fourthly suppose they have not written this will prove but the remisnesse of their duty at the most and will not facilitate and ease the businesse in the least doubtlesse the Presbyterian party in other parts of the world not all things according to the minde of God even in the judgements of the Brethren-Presbyterians of this Nation and if so may not the same thing be retorted upon them which you do here upon these Fifthly As for those jealousies which you say are in some about the Congregationall Brethrens simplicity and sincerity of spirit in preferring Gods Will and the naked Truth above any ends of their own as Gods royall Prerogative in searching all hearts should stifle such misprisions and quit all such unworthy surmisings till better proofe appeare so any mans reasons not mastered with prejudice and discontent should fully discharge all such vain unworthy and uncharitable imaginations concerning their Brethren for except mens ends and aims should be sorrow trouble reproach and contempt perplexity and misery penury and want what other ends can they have Are not some of these for the present and all of them for the future the threatened issues products and consequences of their wayes and practices Surely men should make a better use of their own personall weaknesses viz. their own sinfull ends and aims and by-respects in their own hearts then to make them the measure and rule to judge of their Brethrens hearts by every man should think better of his brother then of himself surely the men of their jealousies are not usually steer'd up and down from one place to another by the golden lure of an hundred or two or three hundred a yeer as many of their censorious Judges are but it is worthy our observation the Saints of our most high God many times are chiefly charged for those things whereof they are least guilty and where they are most innocent and therefore most able to beare the same Thus Joseph for incontinency Elisha for the troubler of Israel though indeed the horsemen and chariots of Israel thus David for seeking Sauls life whose heart smote him for but cutting off one of the skirts of his garment thus Jesus Christ for a deceiver who was the truth it self and for a familiar with the Prince of the Devils who was indeed the great enemy to him and his works and as it was from the beginning so it is now the humble the meek the simple-hearted the peaceable the most forward for reformation yea when their zeale therein cast them into imprisonments sorrows troubles c. these men I say are under jealousies nay evident and expresse censures of being proud perverse deceitfull disturbers of the peace of the State hinderers of Reformation with many such like and unworthy reproaches but the faithfull Witnesse and Judge of all hearts will one day bring forth their innocency as the light and in the mean while support their spirits under all those hard speeches thoughts and calumnies of this world ARGUM. IV. TItus 1.10 11. There are many unruly talkers and deceivers who subvert whole houses teaching things which they ought not whose mouths must be stopped But Church-censure or sentence of non-communion will not stop their mouths for as t is in the Apologeticall Narration they being of another way and judgement it binds not their conscience and so dare pish at the sentence of Non-communion of Excommunication let the Presbyterians pronounce a sentence against Congregationall Churches or let Congregationall Churches pronounce any sentence against Presbyterians Antinomians Anabaptists who will teach things as they thinke which they ought not and see when this sentence stops their mouths But Paul sayes Their mouths must be stopped Church-censure does it not therefore if they must be stopped the civill Magistrate must strike in to stop them else they will ever be open to subvert whole houses In the Apostles times what Church-censure could not reach to was left to the power and providence of God to subdue and master and supply the office of a Magistrate but now when God has blest a Christian Commonwealth with a Christian Magistrate if Church-censure will not stop deceivers mouths but still they will subvert mens precious soules the Magistrate must exercise
his power for they must be stopped REPLY FIrst whereas the Apostle tels Titus that such unruly talkers and deceivers mouths must be stopt it is cleer that it is Titus that must stop them for otherwayes the Apostle writes unto him to no purpose and hee directs him likewise which way hee should stop their mouths viz. vers 13. Rebuke them sharply that they may be sound in the faith and in the first verse of the next Chapter but speak thou the things which become sound doctrine and verse the 8th he saith of sound speech that it cannot be condemned Surely in that sense that Titus may be said to hinder them from condemning sound speech he may be said to stop their mouths you know in Scripture language a mans mouth is said to be stopt when he is not able to gain-say the power of reason and arguments that are opposed unto him So Luke 21.15 Christ promiseth his Disciples to give them a mouth and wisdome which all their adversaries should not be able to gain-say nor resist that is which shall stop their mouths viz. argumentatively So Acts 6.10 Stephen so spake that the Cyrenians and Alexandrians were not able to resist the wisdome and spirit by which hee spake So Matth. 22.34 Christ is said to put the Sadduces to silence that is to stop their mouths and vers 46. the Pharisees likewise were not able to answer him a word and to name no more places 1 Pet. 2.5 the will of God is that by well doing wee should put to silence the ignorance of foolish men You know there is nothing doth more open their mouths then the well doing of the Saints but they open not their mouths like men so here their mouths must be stopt viz. by Titus his sound words this I humbly conceive is as cleer as the day and to make it so you have the same phrase Rom. 3.19 that every mouth must be stopped Secondly whereas you say that that which Church-censure could not do was left to the power and providence of God to subdue and master and supply the office of a Magistrate I answer that though it was left to the power and providence of God to subdue and master yet that this was to supply the office of a Magistrate is but petitio principii and therefore your inference that now when God hath blest a Christian Commonwealth with Christian Magistrates hee must stop their mouths is likewise taken before given Thirdly if by stopping their mouths you mean directly according to the literall sense of the words the Magistrate neither can stop their mouths except he will cut out their tongues or sow up their lips c. for they will be speaking where ever they are ARGUM. V. GAlat 5.11 12. There were some that preached circumcision and Christ together this hotch potch-doctrine much prevailed exceedingly troubled the Churches and Paul sighs and gromes out this wish I would they were cut off that trouble you The question is what kinde of cutting off hee means is it by Church-censure then hee might soone have eased himself and the Churches of them himself might have excommunicated them as he did Hymeneus and Alexander 1 Time 1.20 or commanded the Churches when they had been gathered together and his spirit with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ to have delivered such up unto Satan 1 Cor. 5.4 5. but this hee did not on if hee did it would not serve his and the Churches turn he and they still groan under the misery of false Teachers therefore it must be meant of a cutting off by some speciall extraordinary providence of God their destruction by the divine hand of justice Whence I think this note may genuinely be collected The Church of God may be pestered with false Teachers which no Church-censure will so cut off as that they can be freed of them and therefore the civill Magistrate by his power God having left off extraordinary manifostations of justice against his and his Churches enemies must cut them off and not suffer the Churches to be troubled and sowred with the leaven of their doctrine REPLY I Answer by cutting off there you suppose not to be meant Church-censure and you give reasons for it but you think it was some speciall extraordinary providence of God in bringing to passe their destruction and I think so too though it may be meant also of Church-censure which the Apostle could have wished might have been done but the state of those Churches could not beare it but for that you infer that because now Church-censure cannot reach them therefore the civill Magistrate by his power God having left off extraordinary manifestations of justice against his and his Churches enemies must cut them off and not suffer the Churches to be leavened and sowred with such leaven of their doctrine But Sir I humbly deny your inference for if Magistrates have a lawfull power to supply the extraordinary instances of justice which God hathgiven in the punishment of sin if I say Magistrates have a power thus to do in your sense why then the Magistrate should kill and destroy liers because God by an extraordinary stroke of justice did kill Ananias and Saphira Acts 5. for telling a lie the Magistrate should destroy men for sleeping at hearing the Word because Eutychus by an extraordinary hand of divine justice fell down dead from an upper loft where hee was sleeping when hee should be hearing the Word of God Acts 20. Nay which is more absurd Magistrates should then omit the execution of justice upon more notorious sinners and destroy the lesse guilty sinners yea and should be at an uncertainty herein because Gods justice hath reached some and spared others guilty of the same sins yea much greater which I presume you will judge absurd for the Magistrate is to execute justice according to a known just law and not according to the example of God who may destroy for an idle thought if hee pleaseth ARGUM. VI. REv. 2. God has something to say against the Church in Pergamos because shee had those that taught the doctrine of Balaam and these also that held the doctrine of the Nicolaitans i. they had them still their mouths open teaching these doctrines not suppressed not taken out of the way And something he had against the Churches in Thyatira because they suffered that woman Jezabel to teach and seduce his servants either those that actually were his servants or those that possibly for ought they knew might have been his servants her they should not have suffered to have taught and spread her infectious errors though doubtlesse shee being a Prophetesse was able to have said much for her Way and would have pleaded conscience too yet 't is a charge drawn up against them that she is suffered and to mee it seemes by the Antithesis to run thus vers 22. Behold as if hee had said though you have failed in the execution of justice upon her yet behold I will cast her
into great tribulation and will kill her and her children with death I will not suffer her I will not faile in doing justice upon her and her children as you sinfully have done Church-censure only would not have bindered her from teaching but shee was not to have been suffered to teach therefore a further power ought to have come in for the suppression of her and her followers REPLY FIrst I humbly conceive that Church-censures if duly and timely performed would have prevented this reproofe both to the one Church and the other and the neglect hereof or which is worse the not suppressing these false doctrines by a powerfull preaching against the same was the ground of these sharp and bitter reproofs and my Reason is this it is evident they had not the help of the Magistrate therein for in respect of the politicall state it is said of the Church of Pergamus that shee dwelt where Satan had his seat or throne and where Antipas Gods faithfull servant suffered martyrdome so that they had no help in that respect from the Magistrate and if so I suppose you will not say the Church could imprison banish c. so that I presume their neglect must be of something which was in the power of the Church And Secondly whereas you say Church-censures would not have hindered these proceedings in the Church I humbly conceive the contrary because if the Church officers and members had examined these doctrines as they ought and upon the finding of them erronious had proceeded to censure them in case they would not forbeare the promulgation thereof from that time the Church was not to permit them to preach any more amongst them neither should they give them any more hearing Thirdly If a means sanctified by God to an end do not alwayes effect it wee may not therefore devise another Magistracy doth not suppresse all vice ARGUMENT VII MOst evident it is that the civill Magistrate in the Commonwealth of Israel was supreme in things Ecclesiastic ill 1 Chro. 15. David assembles all Israel to Jerusalem gives the Priests and Levites their charge orders the things of the Ark of God vers 1. to 18. 2 Chron. 15. It s said King Asa took courage and put away the abominable Idols and renewed the Altar of the Lord and made a Covenant and whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death whether great or small man or woman Now let it be showne where God took this power from the civill Magistrate under the new Testament why the Magistrate has not as much power or the same power in matters Ecclesiasticall as then hee had 'T is true the Apostles were very silent and close in giving the civill Magistrate his just power in things spirituall but I conceive this closeness of theirs was their prudence and that in these two respects 1. There was no Magistrate then but Heathonish or Jewish and so understood not Gods will in his worship and so had any thing been commanded it had been but a oarnall commandement humane which Christians must have refused and therefore 't was not their wisdome to speak or write much to this point lest it had proved a snare 2. Had they spoken much of a Christian Magistrate that should have power in things civill and Ecclesiasticall and be able to defend Christianity against all it's enemies this would have bred jealousies in the Roman State and Christian Churches would have been looked upon as a conspiring trayterous generation and persecutions would have soon been raised up against them It was the Apostles wisdome to keep Cesars head free from jealousies that so the Churches might enjoy Christ and their consciences the better therefore they spake so little of the Christian Magistrate in things civill and Ecclesiasticall well knowing that after-ages would not be at a losse or stand in this point but might look upon the examples of the godly Kings of Israel for their imitation never being repealed and in David Josiah Asa might see what was their right and just power in matters both of Church and State REPLY FIrst it is not to be denyed but that the civill Magistrates in the Commonwealth of Israel were supreme in things Ecclesiasticall but upon such grounds and reasons as were peculiar unto them and therefore not presidentiall for Christian Magistrates under the Gospel except upon the same or the like grounds For First the godly Kings of Israel and Judah were types of Christ thus David whom you instance it is said of him Psal 75.3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved I beare up the pillars therof which is true only of Jesus Christ the antitype who laid the foundations of the earth Heb. 1.10 and upholdeth all things by the word of his power vers 3. Now when the antitype is come into the world Jesus Christ in the room of his father David the law henceforth is to proceed from his lips and the government is to be upon his shoulders and of his Kingdome there shall be no end Isa 9.6 7. So Moses was a chief magistrate unto Israel unto whom they were to hearken untill Christ whom he did typifie was come and of him he saith himself Deuter. 18.15 A Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you like unto me him shall you heare in all things whatsoever hee shall say unto you And it shall come to passe that whosoever shall not heare that Prophet that soul shall be destroyed from among the people Acts 3.22 23. The Kings of Israel and Judah whom you mention are types of Christs kingly office Christ therefore being come the types are gone for though kings of Commonwealths may be of a morall consideration and so perpetuall yet kings as the head of the Church in things Ecelesiasticall were types and therefore abolished and by the same argument as you will maintain the power of Christian kings over the Churches of God in things meerly Ecclesiasticall from the examples of the kings of Israel and Judah who were types of Christ by the same arguments may the Pope maintain a chief Priesthood under the Gospel after the example of Aaron and the rest of that order successively Secondly the godly kings of Israel and Judah were directed by the infallible mouth of God and guidance of his Spirit even in these Ecclesiasticall businesses and thus David whom you in stance to give the Priests and Levites their charge 1 Chron. 15. if you look into 1 Chron. 28.12 he had his direction from the Spirit of God and vers 19. David professeth that the Lord made him understand all the work of this pattern When you can prove such an infallible guidance and direction by the Spirit of God in matters of Church-government to be the portion of Christian kings under the Gospel there may be some colour in this argument Thirdly The kings of Israel were Elders of one ministeriall congregation for the whole Church and State were so as is
evident and what they did unlesse upon expresse either Text or revelation was done with the consent of the congregation 1 Chron. 13.2 c. Fourthly I do not remember that ever they did banish or otherwayes punish all strangers from among them that were not of their own Religion or had such a commission so to do and that these severe lawes about Church-government did belong unto any but their own nation and people or those that joyned themselves to them all that acknowledged the seven precepts of Noah they tolerated Ainsworth on Gen. 17.12 Fifthly Most evident it is that they did suffer severall Sects and differing Opinions among them and that of a more dangerous consequence then is the difference that is the difference that is between the Presbyterian and Independent as the Sadduces the Pharisees the Herodians Alexandrians c. And therefore you may after their example plead for the like toleration or rather for the toleration of those that are of lesse danger Sixthly But if any thing must be added for conclusion we say as the Christians of old leaving the dispute of the Magistrates power in generall we say this Way being of God at least in great probability the Magistrate hath no power to suppresse it which I desire you to take as a full answer those kings of Israel commanded nothing but the expresse will of God and that without infringing the liberties of the Congregation whose consent they had which two things if our Magistrates shall do all that wee shall say will be Go on and prosper Seventhly Whereas you say Let it be shewne where God took this power from the civill Magistrate under the new Testament c. I answer where wee finde types and ceremonies taken away there wee finde this power in matters of Church-government taken away which though it be not exprest in so many plain words as many other cermonies granted on all hands to be taken away are not yet this with others is to be understood as I humbly conceive in that generall expression of the Apostle Gal. 3.24 25. The law was a Schoolmaster to bring us to Christ c. but after that faith is come we are no longer under a Schoolmaster these things being shadows of good things to come but the body is Christ Col. 2.17 And untill it can be proved that the civill government of the Jewes had nothing typicall as well as the Church and that the kings of Israel and Judah were not typicall in this particular I humbly conceive it a sufficient answer to that part of your Argument Eighthly As for the Reasons which you give of the Apostles closenesse for so your word is in declaring the power of Christian Magistrates at that time they are but conjecturall not Scripturall and therefore may as well be denied by me as affirmed by you and that upon as probable grounds Your first Reason is There was no Magistrate then but Heathonish or Jewish and so understood not Gods will in his worship and so had any thing been commanded it had been but a carnall commandement humane which Christians must have refused and therefore it was not their wisdome to speak or write much to that point lest it had proved a snare I answer that mens not understanding Gods will in his worship whether Jewish or Heathonish Magistrate or not Magistrate could be no just ground why the Apostles should not teach them their work being to teach such things which were not before understood and if any thing had been commanded by them though Heathonish or Jewish according to the will of God their commanding the same had not made the commandement carnall for I suppose it is not the person commanding but the nature of the thing commanded that renders it carnall For if a Heathen commands that which is the will of God and a Christian Magistrate that that is net the will of God it is the Heathens command that must be obeyed and the Christian Magistrates command that must be disobeyed because it must be the will of God and not the authority of man that must be the grouud of warranted obedience and they might have taught it without perill by shewing that though he had power in Church-affaires yet not against their profession as being of God which was the only argument they defended it by Your second Reason is Had the Apostles spoken much of a Christian Magistrates power in things civill and Ecclesiasticall and be able to defend Christianity against all its enemies what you mean by this last clause I know not this would have bred jealousies in the Romane State and Christian Churches would have been looked upon as a conspiring trayterous generation and persecutions would soon have been raised up against them it was the Apostles wisdome to keep Cesars head from jealousies that so the Churches might enjoy Christ and their consciences the better c. I humbly answer though it be true the Saints should be as wise as Serpents yet as innocent as Doves and herein the Apostles snewed their innocency in that they kept back nothing of the will of God that was profitable Acts 20.20 I suppose this could not be unprofitable and although every truth must be preached seasonably yet at one time or another your asserting the Apostles supposition of the Saints sufficient understanding the will of God about Christian Magistrates from Gods will revealed therein by the example of the Kings of Israel being only your own conjecture as I said before and not Scripture doth not at all ease this businesse for that must first be proved before we can grant it you and moreover it is evident the Apostles did not balk or forbeare to preach such truths as were every whit as exasperating the Roman Magistrate as this particular you speak of as that Jesus was both Lord and Christ Acts 2.36 and that he should put down all rule and all authority and power yea and that he should reign untill hee hath put down all his enemies under his feet 1 Cor. 15.24 yea and the more they were forbidden to preach the more they went about preaching not regarding the command of the Magistrate when it was beyond the line of his just authority and many other Scriptures of this nature may be given and these things I conceive may be sufficient answers unto your 7th Argument ARGUM. VIII I Desire to know if Gamaliel had given the Councell this advice of refraining and letting alone concerning Theudas or Judas of Galilee I say whether the Councell being able to have demonstrated them and their wayes erroneous they ought to have consented to him or no for this is the true state of the Question and not whether the Ministers and truths of Christ may be suppressed wee all know this would be fighting against God to run a hazard no lesse then death but whether a Councell finding a generation of Teachers erring from the truth and wilfull in their errours must then let them alone and expect
Pastor the Elders the Deacons and also the people did deliberate and determine of things belonging to the government of the Church 3. The Churches in the third hundred yeer Cen. 3. cap. 7. Tit. de Synodis privatis in principio Now that the jurisdiction of the great Churches over the lesse was established and the authority of metropolitanes determined by the Nicene Councel yet if any businesse happened which could not be perfected without the rest both Ministers people then they came together and dispatched them with common advice without the calling of the Churches of the same Province So Cyprian cited by them Epist l. 3. cap. 10. From the beginning of my being Bishop or Pastor I determined to do nothing without your counsell hee speaks to the Elders and Deacons nor without the consent of the people by my own private opinion In these assemblies in other Churches there were few orders made by the Bishops or Pastors and afterwards approved by the Church unlesse it was in Rome according to the efficacy of the mysterie of Iniquity they are the Authors words some Bishops made decrees as Damasus Galixtus c. By all which it appeares that the Churches most Primitive were ignorant of any necessity or law lying on them to be governed by one Church or more or of associating with any but as they saw cause and by the law of charity neither understood there was any Provinciall much lesse Nationall or universall and ministeriall and governing Church which must by way of authority dispose of all the affaires of the particular Churches Object But they excommunicated in their Assemblies of many Churches Answ 1. So did they in each particular Church as of their own right and consulted not with others unlesse the cause was difficult 2. The excommunication was rather of the opinion by damning and condemning of it then of persons 3. If there were such excommunication of persons yet it was done by the willing consent of the Churches or else for themselves those Churches that met not for others unlesse by consequent that he who is excommunicated out of one Church if it be duly performed is excommunicated out of all ARGUMENT II. WHy hath not the civill Magistrate a power to set up and establish by a law such a worship as an Assembly of godly Divines shal present to them to be according to the Word of God as well as they had a power to pull down false worship Popery Episcopacie Arminianisme and such grosse errors and innovations as had justled out the true servants and service of God and this they did with the approbations and acclamations of all those that professed the power of godlinesse of what Way or Sect soever they were I never heard of any such that accused them for stretching beyond their line therein If the subject matter of Politicall administration be meerly humane matters why did not Congregationall Divines inform them as much but were silent while they had their hands thrust deep into Church-affaires and things spirituall Why did not their jealousie over the Parliament break out when they saw them begin to dash the foot against that stone but gave thanks to God for them their doing but now when they have come to set up and it proves aworship against their judgement and conscience they are reproved and have no power at all in things Ecclesiasticall but every man must enjoy his conscience worship and way If they once had a power to pull down why have they not now power to pull down in the like case with the like proportioned approbation and if in things Ecclesiasticall they have a power to pull down why not to set up too That the civill Magistrate shall have a power in things spirituall and yet no power is a mysterie unto mee REPLY 1. THe government the Magistrate hath pulled down was erected as a Law of the kingdome and by that power was inabled to the persecution of the Saints and disturbance of the State which was the defection of the Magistracie of these times Now when the Magistrates shall not only withdraw their power but also prohibit the further exercise thereof in the persecution of the Saints and disturbance of the State we suppose it is no more then according to their just power and therefore do rejoyce therein 2. The Magistrates just doing any thing according to the joynt consent desire approbation and congratulatory acclamations of all the Saints is no good argument to prove a lawfull power in the Magistrate to do things contrary to the joynt consent desires c. of all the Saints Herod and Pilate Felix and Agrippa had a just power to release Christ and Paul c. but that doth not argue that their power was just in delivering them up unto whipping imprisonment death c. it was indeed potentia but not potestas might but not right and it is the latter I suppose that you mean 3. We did never deny the Magistrate a lawfull power to intermeddle with that kinde of Church-government or doctrine opinion or practice which shall most dangerously intermeddle with the State it self and thereby prove evidently hurtfull and apparently destructive thereunto and so did the government whereof you speak which was the ground of that act of abolishing the same When Congregationall or Presbyteriall government or the professors thereof be found in their principles and generall practices underminers of the peace and welfare of the kingdome raising up wars and trouble to maintain the same it is high time for the Magistrate who is mainly to minde salutem populi to pull them down and no longer to tolerate the same and such is the instance which you speak of 4. Those Christian or unchristian Magistrates may have a lawfull power and authority to destroy Antichrist which may have no lawfull authority to appoint lawes and rules for the government of the Churches of Jesus Christ and to enforce the same contrary to their judgements and consciences Cyrus may have a just warrant from God for the ruining of Babylon but not for the compulsion of Sion to worship God according to his thoughts of the will of God therein all Magistrates may and ought to assist and preserve the Churches of Jesus Christ from those that wonld ruine and destroy them but that any magistrate hath power to compell the Saints of God what to believe in matters of faith and what to practice in matters of immediate worship especially in things that are of an intricate and deep cognizance and controversall among the godly learned which is the main businesse in hand between the Presbyterian and Independent party is beyond any ground that I can yet perceive from the Scriptures but we shall meet with this again in another of your Arguments ARGUM. III. VVHy do not our Congregationall Divines write to the Brethren of New-England and convince them of their errour who give as some say the civill Magistrate a power to question doctrines censure errours