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brethren_n alas_o alas_o too_o hardly_o attain_v may_v sincere_o
appoint_v fofeiture_n in_o case_n of_o profanation_n of_o the_o lord_n day_n by_o carrier_n etc._n etc._n that_o travel_n on_o the_o lord_n day_n or_o by_o butcher_n that_o sell_v or_o kill_v victuass_n on_o that_o day_n by_o all_o which_o you_o may_v plain_o see_v if_o you_o will_v not_o shut_v your_o eye_n that_o it_o be_v not_o against_o law_n that_o a_o man_n may_v come_v to_o be_v punish_v twice_o for_o one_o offence_n nay_o what_o have_v be_v heretofore_o more_o ordinary_a than_o the_o high-commissioner_n imprison_v fine_v and_o excommunicate_v for_o one_o and_o the_o same_o offence_n but_o yet_o you_o will_v have_v the_o latter_a act_n and_o ordinance_n against_o drunkenness_n swear_v profanation_n of_o the_o sabbath_n etc._n etc._n enjoin_v punishment_n by_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n only_o though_o they_o do_v not_o speak_v one_o word_n that_o tend_v to_o the_o repeal_n of_o the_o ordinance_n for_o church_n government_n to_o have_v utter_o take_v off_o all_o power_n of_o excommunication_n but_o this_o we_o must_v not_o so_o easy_o grant_v and_o yet_o we_o shall_v not_o be_v unready_a as_o there_o may_v be_v occasion_n to_o complain_v to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n of_o any_o lawless_a person_n that_o be_v just_o censurable_a with_o the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n the_o conjunction_n of_o the_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a sword_n be_v sharp_a and_o long_o then_o either_o of_o they_o alone_o the_o gentleman_n paper_n sect._n viii_o and_o you_o further_o proceed_v to_o make_v answer_n to_o our_o several_a ensue_a query_n but_o how_o full_o and_o satisfactory_o all_o may_v judge_v that_o have_v peruse_v what_o have_v former_o be_v say_v touch_v the_o civil_a sanction_n of_o your_o government_n our_o first_o quaerie_n be_v why_o government_n in_o singulari_fw-la your_o answer_n be_v because_o it_o be_v the_o only_a government_n that_o be_v establish_v in_o this_o church_n by_o civil_a authority_n this_o answer_n have_v be_v confute_v before_o we_o shall_v say_v no_o more_o here_o to_o that_o but_o we_o be_v unsatisfied_a what_o you_o mean_v by_o this_o church_n whether_o you_o mean_v this_o church_n at_o manehester_n where_o your_o classis_fw-la be_v or_o you_o mean_v the_o church_n of_o england_n if_o you_o mean_v this_o church_n of_o manchester_n of_o your_o association_n it_o be_v establish_v not_o so_o much_o by_o ordinance_n of_o lord_n and_o commons_o in_o parliament_n as_o by_o late_a act_n graut_a the_o free_a exercise_n of_o religion_n in_o doctrine_n and_o worship_n to_o all_o church_n and_o congregation_n in_o their_o own_o way_n to_o all_o and_o all_o alike_o but_o such_o as_o be_v particular_o caution_v against_o and_o so_o you_o in_o your_o presbytery_n in_o your_o church_n at_o manchester_n be_v protect_v because_o you_o have_v possess_v yourselves_o of_o that_o church_n but_o than_o other_o in_o other_o church_n and_o congregation_n to_o wit_n prestwich_n bury_v middleton_n and_o the_o like_a may_v say_v of_o their_o way_n of_o worship_n it_o be_v the_o only_a government_n which_o be_v establish_v in_o this_o church_n but_o if_o your_o meaning_n be_v of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o so_o we_o conceive_v by_o the_o subsequent_a word_n viz._n that_o there_o be_v no_o other_o government_n but_o you_o own_v as_o the_o church_n government_n throughout_o the_o whole_a nation_n you_o be_v certain_o mistake_v and_o dare_v not_o maintain_v it_o that_o his_o highness_n or_o his_o council_n own_v presbytery_n and_o none_o but_o that_o government_n but_o leave_v the_o civil_a sanction_n you_o come_v to_o the_o divine_a right_n of_o presbytery_n and_o prove_v it_o to_o be_v the_o only_a government_n in_o singulari_fw-la because_o it_o be_v that_o only_a government_n which_o christ_n have_v prescribe_v in_o his_o word_n and_o what_o christ_n have_v thus_o prescribe_v must_v needs_o be_v de_fw-la jure_fw-la one_o and_o the_o same_o in_o every_o church_n and_o calvin_n judgement_n you_o say_v in_o this_o particular_a be_v so_o manifest_a by_o his_o work_n to_o the_o whole_a world_n that_o it_o need_v no_o proof_n we_o have_v tell_v you_o before_o of_o the_o form_n and_o order_n of_o church_n government_n appoint_v by_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a by_o patriarch_n archbishop_n bishop_n etc._n etc._n how_o this_o government_n which_o we_o suppose_v you_o will_v not_o say_v be_v presbyterian_a be_v in_o calvin_n judgement_n not_o differ_v from_o that_o which_o christ_n have_v prescribe_v in_o his_o word_n and_o in_o his_o first_o section_n of_o this_o chapter_n he_o tell_v we_o of_o bishop_n not_o one_o word_n of_o elder_n choose_v out_o of_o the_o people_n who_o shall_v rule_v in_o the_o church_n but_o bishop_n that_o do_v all_o viz._n make_v and_o publish_v canon_n a_o note_n certain_o of_o rule_n and_o jurisdiction_n in_o the_o church_n in_o which_o say_v he_o they_o so_o order_v all_o thing_n after_o the_o rule_n of_o god_n word_n that_o a_o man_n may_v see_v they_o have_v in_o a_o manner_n nothing_o differ_v from_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o this_o form_n of_o government_n do_v represent_v a_o certain_a image_n of_o divine_a institution_n can_v calvin_n say_v more_o for_o your_o presbytery_n nay_o can_v he_o say_v so_o much_o then_o how_o manifest_a be_v his_o judgement_n for_o the_o jus_o divinum_fw-la of_o your_o presbytery_n that_o it_o be_v that_o government_n in_o particular_a which_o christ_n have_v prescribe_v in_o his_o word_n thus_o have_v we_o take_v off_o your_o calvin_n and_o beza_n as_o above_o your_o modern_a doctor_n for_o father_n you_o have_v none_o and_o now_o you_o descend_v to_o the_o assembly_n of_o divine_n the_o jus_o divinum_fw-la by_o london_n minister_n the_o provincial_a synod_n at_o london_n rutherford_n gyllaspie_n to_o prove_v your_o divine_a right_n of_o presbytery_n modern_a author_n of_o yesterday_o with_o who_o you_o paint_v your_o margin_n in_o abundance_n and_o may_v serve_v your_o turn_n among_o the_o ignorant_a and_o vulgar_a sort_n who_o measure_n all_o by_o tale_n and_o not_o by_o weight_n when_o other_o that_o know_v what_o and_o who_o many_o of_o they_o be_v will_v conclude_v you_o draw_v very_o near_o the_o dregs_o as_o for_o such_o as_o be_v lawless_a person_n and_o who_o those_o be_v whether_o drunkard_n swearer_n unclean_a person_n prophaner_n of_o the_o sabbath_n such_o as_o will_v not_o subject_v themselves_o to_o the_o present_a government_n etc._n etc._n all_o together_o or_o a_o part_n conjunctim_fw-la seu_fw-la divisim_fw-la whether_o you_o will_v they_o be_v only_o punishable_a by_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n you_o can_v exclude_v they_o the_o church_n by_o any_o of_o your_o censure_n as_o we_o have_v say_v before_o the_o animadversion_n of_o the_o class_n upon_o it_o 1._o we_o do_v indeed_o proceed_v to_o make_v answer_n to_o your_o several_a query_n and_o desire_v the_o reader_n to_o peruse_v the_o query_n you_o propound_v to_o we_o in_o your_o first_o paper_n and_o the_o answer_n we_o give_v unto_o they_o and_o then_o to_o judge_v how_o satisfactory_o we_o do_v it_o after_o he_o have_v full_o weigh_v our_o answer_n and_o what_o you_o have_v say_v to_o take_v off_o the_o establish_n of_o our_o government_n by_o the_o civil_a sanction_n but_o whereas_o your_o first_o query_n be_v why_o government_n in_o singulari_fw-la and_o our_o answer_n give_v thereunto_o be_v because_o it_o be_v the_o only_a government_n that_o be_v establish_v in_o this_o church_n by_o civil_a authority_n you_o say_v this_o answer_n have_v be_v confute_v before_o but_o how_o strong_o we_o shall_v leave_v it_o to_o the_o reader_n for_o to_o judge_v but_o it_o seem_v this_o answer_n have_v raise_v another_o scruple_n in_o your_o mind_n for_o you_o be_v unsatisfied_a what_o we_o mean_v by_o this_o church_n although_o in_o our_o answer_n we_o have_v sufficient_o explain_v it_o it_o be_v that_o church_n wherein_o the_o prelatical_a government_n former_o have_v be_v set_v up_o and_o wherein_o that_o be_v put_v down_o the_o presbyterian_a be_v set_v up_o in_o its_o stead_n as_o the_o only_a government_n that_o be_v own_v as_o the_o church_n government_n for_o the_o whole_a nation_n as_o we_o have_v tell_v you_o and_o which_o word_n do_v sufficient_o declare_v that_o by_o this_o church_n we_o mean_v the_o church_n of_o england_n this_o you_o confess_v be_v that_o which_o you_o conceive_v to_o be_v our_o meaning_n yet_o you_o quarrel_n at_o the_o word_n that_o so_o upon_o supposal_n that_o the_o church_n of_o manchester_n of_o our_o association_n and_o where_o our_o classis_fw-la meet_v may_v thereby_o be_v understand_v you_o may_v take_v the_o liberty_n to_o tell_v we_o that_o our_o church_n government_n be_v not_o so_o much_o establish_v by_o the_o ordinance_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o commons_o in_o parliament_n as_o by_o late_a act_n grant_v as_o you_o say_v the_o free_a exercise_n of_o religion_n in_o doctrine_n and_o worship_n to_o
receive_v in_o the_o ancient_a church_n there_o be_v proposal_n of_o assembly_n of_o pastor_n within_o certain_a limit_a bound_n which_o save_v that_o they_o be_v some_o of_o they_o somewhat_o large_a than_o we_o which_o be_v but_o a_o circumstantial_a difference_n do_v hold_v proportion_n with_o the_o classical_a provincial_a and_o national_a assembly_n mention_v in_o the_o form_n of_o our_o church_n government_n as_o also_o the_o time_n propound_v there_o for_o their_o meeting_n the_o power_n of_o these_o assembly_n and_o what_o they_o be_v to_o have_v cognizance_n of_o and_o the_o subordination_n of_o the_o lesser_a to_o the_o great_a with_o liberty_n of_o appeal_n if_o need_n shall_v require_v and_o be_v the_o same_o in_o substance_n as_o with_o we_o and_o all_o these_o be_v propound_v as_o the_o way_n of_o government_n in_o the_o ancient_a church_n and_o in_o the_o year_n 1641._o after_o the_o trouble_n that_o have_v rise_v in_o scotland_n about_o episcopacy_n and_o the_o ceremony_n and_o before_o the_o set_n up_o of_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n in_o this_o land_n have_v so_o much_o as_o fall_v under_o debate_n in_o the_o parliament_n so_o far_o as_o ever_o we_o hear_v of_o as_o a_o expedient_a to_o prevent_v the_o trouble_n that_o do_v after_o arise_v in_o this_o land_n about_o the_o matter_n of_o church_n government_n be_v for_o the_o moderate_n of_o episcopacy_n that_o at_o that_o time_n be_v grow_v to_o that_o height_n that_o it_o have_v quite_o take_v away_o from_o the_o pastor_n that_o rule_v that_o of_o right_n do_v belong_v unto_o they_o and_o for_o the_o reduction_n of_o it_o to_o the_o ancient_a form_n of_o synodical_a government_n and_o therefore_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o this_o learned_a and_o reverend_a antiquary_n our_o provincial_a assembly_n at_o preston_n where_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n be_v member_n as_o he_o acknowledge_v of_o right_n they_o ought_v to_o be_v in_o such_o assembly_n will_v not_o have_v be_v account_v a_o new_a term_v provincial_a assembly_n sect_n iv._o but_o you_o go_v on_o and_o tell_v we_o that_o other_o part_n of_o our_o paper_n be_v full_a of_o darkness_n to_o which_o you_o say_v you_o can_v so_o full_o assent_v till_o further_o explicate_v and_o unfold_v by_o we_o we_o can_v apprehend_v any_o such_o darkness_n in_o our_o paper_n as_o you_o speak_v of_o but_o yet_o because_o in_o you_o you_o question_v what_o authority_n we_o have_v from_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n for_o what_o we_o do_v and_o likewise_o the_o extent_n of_o it_o and_o your_o mistake_n of_o our_o meaning_n may_v perhaps_o some_o of_o they_o arise_v from_o your_o unacquaintednesse_n with_o the_o rule_n we_o walk_v by_o although_o we_o be_v not_o to_o be_v blame_v for_o any_o mistake_n that_o may_v arise_v ab_fw-la ignorantia_fw-la juris_fw-la whether_o simple_a or_o affect_v that_o we_o determine_v not_o but_o leave_v you_o to_o examine_v before_o we_o come_v to_o make_v answer_n more_o particular_o to_o what_o follow_v we_o be_v willing_a to_o be_v at_o some_o pain_n to_o give_v you_o some_o further_a account_n of_o the_o power_n we_o be_v awarrant_v by_o the_o civil_a authority_n for_o to_o exercise_v to_o what_o person_n within_o our_o bound_n it_o extend_v itself_o and_o what_o some_o of_o those_o rule_n be_v that_o be_v prescribe_v unto_o we_o by_o civil_a authority_n to_o walk_v by_o in_o the_o exercise_n of_o that_o power_n we_o be_v betrust_v with_o it_o be_v a_o general_a and_o common_a mistake_n among_o many_o that_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n be_v establish_v by_o the_o parliament_n but_o for_o three_o year_n and_o that_o therefore_o it_o be_v now_o expire_v and_o our_o of_o date_n but_o if_o you_o peruse_v all_o that_o pass_v in_o parliament_n touch_v it_o no_o such_o matter_n will_v appear_v the_o direction_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o commons_o assemble_v in_o parliament_n after_o advice_n have_v with_o the_o assembly_n of_o divine_n for_o the_o elect_n and_o choose_v rule_v elder_n in_o all_o the_o congregation_n and_o in_o the_o classical_a assembly_n for_o the_o city_n of_o london_n and_o westminster_n and_o the_o several_a county_n of_o the_o kingdom_n for_o the_o speedy_a settle_n of_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n bear_v date_n august_n 19_o 1645._o their_o ordinance_n together_o with_o rule_n and_o direction_n concern_v suspension_n from_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n in_o case_n of_o ignorance_n and_o scandal_n date_v octob._n 20._o 1645_o the_o vote_n also_o of_o the_o say_a house_n for_o the_o choice_n of_o elder_n throughout_o the_o kingdom_n of_o england_n and_o dominion_n of_o wales_n in_o the_o respective_a parish_n church_n and_o chapel_n according_a to_o the_o direction_n before_o mention_v and_o touch_v the_o power_n grant_v to_o the_o tryer_n of_o election_n of_o elder_n of_o the_o date_n of_o febr._n 20._o 1645._o and_o febr._n 26._o 1645_o their_o ordinance_n for_o keep_v scandalous_a person_n from_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n the_o enable_v of_o congregation_n for_o the_o choice_n of_o elder_n and_o supply_v of_o defect_n in_o former_a ordinance_n and_o direction_n of_o parliament_n concern_v church_n government_n bear_v date_n march_v 14._o 1645_o the_o remedy_n prescribe_v by_o they_o for_o remove_v some_o obstruction_n in_o church_n government_n date_v april_n 22._o 1647_o and_o their_o ordinance_n for_o the_o speedy_a divide_v and_o settle_v the_o several_a county_n of_o this_o kingdom_n into_o distinct_a classical_a presbytery_n and_o congregationall_a eldership_n date_v jan._n 29._o 1647_o we_o say_v all_o these_o be_v pass_v absolute_o without_o any_o proviso_n at_o all_o limit_v the_o time_n of_o their_o continuance_n that_o be_v express_v in_o any_o of_o they_o indeed_o in_o the_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n give_v power_n to_o all_o the_o classical_a presbytery_n within_o their_o respective_a bound_n to_o examine_v approve_v and_o ordain_v minister_n for_o several_a congregation_n date_v nou._n 10._o 1645_o it_o be_v provide_v in_o the_o close_a of_o it_o that_o it_o shall_v stand_v in_o force_n for_o twelve_o month_n and_o no_o long_o as_o it_o be_v provide_v in_o another_o ordinance_n for_o the_o ordination_n of_o minister_n by_o the_o classical_a presbyter_n within_o their_o respective_a bound_n for_o the_o several_a congregation_n in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o england_n bear_v date_n august_n 28._o 1646_o that_o it_o shall_v stand_v in_o force_n for_o three_o year_n and_o no_o long_o which_o latter_a may_v give_v to_o some_o that_o take_v but_o the_o matter_n upon_o report_n a_o occasion_n to_o conceive_v that_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n be_v settle_v but_o for_o three_o year_n although_o that_o be_v but_o ill_o apply_v to_o all_o the_o several_a ordinance_n that_o have_v pass_v before_o which_o belong_v only_o to_o one_o but_o the_o ordinance_n especial_o from_o which_o chief_o as_o we_o conceive_v the_o mistake_n arise_v about_o settle_v the_o presbyterian_a government_n for_o three_o year_n only_o be_v the_o ordinance_n that_o pass_v june_n 5._o 1646_o the_o title_n whereof_o be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o commons_o assemble_v in_o parliament_n for_o the_o present_a settle_n without_o further_a delay_n of_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n in_o the_o close_a whereof_o it_o be_v ordain_v that_o this_o ordinance_n shall_v continue_v for_o the_o space_n of_o three_o year_n and_o no_o long_o unless_o both_o house_n think_v fit_a to_o continue_v it_o but_o if_o the_o matter_n of_o this_o ordinance_n be_v consult_v it_o be_v manifest_v it_o be_v but_o touch_v a_o committee_n of_o lord_n and_o commons_o to_o adjudge_v and_o determine_v scandalous_a offence_n not_o former_o enumerate_v appoint_v by_o that_o ordinance_n in_o stead_n and_o place_n of_o commissioner_n mention_v in_o the_o ordinance_n of_o march_n 14._o 1645_o and_o also_o show_v how_o the_o eldership_n be_v to_o proceed_v in_o the_o examination_n of_o such_o scandalous_a offence_n and_o touch_v what_o power_n be_v grant_v to_o the_o say_a committee_n and_o in_o what_o sort_n they_o be_v to_o proceed_v as_o be_v clear_a to_o any_o that_o shall_v but_o take_v the_o pain_n to_o peruse_v that_o ordinance_n the_o ground_n whereof_o in_o the_o preface_n to_o it_o be_v make_v to_o be_v this_o the_o lord_n and_o commons_o in_o parliament_n hold_v their_o former_a resolution_n that_o all_o notorious_a and_o scandalous_a offender_n shall_v be_v keep_v from_o the_o sacrament_n have_v think_v fit_a to_o make_v a_o further_a addition_n to_o the_o scandalous_a offence_n former_o enumerate_v for_o which_o man_n shall_v be_v keep_v back_o from_o the_o sacrament_n and_o lest_o the_o stay_n of_o the_o enumeration_n and_o the_o not_o name_v of_o commissioner_n to_o judge_v of_o case_n not_o enumerate_v shall_v hinder_v the_o put_n in_o execution_n the_o presbyterian_a government_n already_o establish_v they_o have_v
and_o the_o reform_a church_n abroad_o that_o we_o know_v not_o what_o can_v be_v add_v more_o gillaspie_n and_o yet_o we_o do_v not_o say_v that_o there_o be_v no_o present_a government_n in_o any_o church_n or_o assembly_n of_o saint_n but_o where_o our_o discipline_n and_o government_n be_v erect_v entire_o in_o all_o the_o part_n of_o it_o no_o more_o than_o we_o shall_v deny_v he_o to_o be_v a_o man_n in_o who_o there_o be_v a_o defect_n of_o some_o integral_a part_n or_o in_o who_o there_o be_v some_o superfluous_a member_n but_o as_o when_o antichristianisme_n so_o overspead_n the_o face_n of_o the_o church_n in_o those_o dark_a time_n before_o the_o reformation_n god_n preserve_v a_o church_n ministry_n and_o ordinance_n though_o not_o without_o the_o mixture_n of_o many_o corruption_n in_o doctrine_n and_o worship_n even_o among_o the_o papist_n themselves_o so_o there_o be_v some_o of_o christ_n government_n and_o discipline_n in_o the_o worst_a time_n though_o not_o entire_o nor_o without_o the_o mixture_n of_o much_o corruption_n in_o that_o discipline_n and_o government_n and_o yet_o if_o you_o consult_v antiquity_n you_o will_v not_o find_v that_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n have_v lyen_fw-we hide_v so_o long_o as_o that_o for_o the_o space_n of_o 1500_o year_n it_o can_v never_o be_v find_v till_o this_o present_a you_o have_v hear_v what_o rule_n do_v ancient_o belong_v to_o presbyter_n notwithstanding_o that_o through_o the_o corruption_n that_o creep_v into_o the_o church_n in_o after_o time_n the_o exercise_n of_o that_o power_n be_v long_o disuse_v and_o the_o like_a may_v be_v say_v of_o rule_v elder_n and_o as_o have_v be_v show_v by_o other_o but_o it_o be_v what_o de_fw-fr jure_fw-la ought_v to_o be_v and_o not_o what_o the_o facto_fw-la be_v or_o have_v be_v which_o be_v that_o which_o you_o and_o we_o be_v chief_o to_o attend_v and_o concern_v which_o the_o scripture_n must_v be_v the_o only_a judge_n as_o we_o have_v say_v before_o 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galatia_n such_o as_o mix_v work_n with_o faith_n in_o the_o point_n of_o justification_n and_o of_o which_o the_o apostle_n paul_n will_v have_v those_o church_n to_o take_v notice_n even_o to_o the_o censure_v of_o they_o they_o be_v spot_n to_o those_o assembly_n and_o however_o saint_n by_o profession_n and_o in_o regard_n of_o outward_a call_n be_v in_o covenant_n with_o god_n and_o have_v be_v baptize_v yet_o answer_v not_o their_o profession_n by_o suitable_a conversation_n and_o therefore_o however_o there_o be_v sundry_a of_o the_o like_a stamp_n in_o our_o assembly_n we_o do_v not_o therefore_o unchurch_n they_o or_o make_v our_o assembly_n not_o the_o assembly_n of_o the_o saint_n because_o of_o the_o corruption_n of_o such_o member_n and_o see_v our_o principle_n and_o practice_n be_v manifest_o know_v to_o be_v utter_o against_o the_o opinion_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o donatist_n of_o old_a and_o those_o that_o have_v of_o late_o rend_v themselves_o from_o our_o 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hold_v sundry_a gross_a error_n that_o subvert_v the_o faith_n so_o in_o regard_n of_o those_o and_o other_o their_o practice_n that_o in_o their_o own_o nature_n do_v manifest_o subvert_v the_o order_n unity_n and_o peace_n that_o christ_n have_v establish_v in_o his_o church_n do_v just_o fall_v under_o church_n censure_n according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o our_o government_n above_o mention_v and_o that_o therefore_o we_o be_v not_o altogether_o silent_a concern_v either_o the_o sin_n or_o punishment_n of_o such_o as_o do_v err_v gross_o in_o doctrinal_n or_o in_o discipline_n so_o as_o to_o make_v such_o dangerous_a rent_n from_o the_o church_n as_o the_o forenamed_a sectary_n do_v contrary_a to_o what_o you_o say_v of_o we_o in_o your_o paper_n and_o further_o by_o such_o as_o forsake_v the_o public_a assembly_n of_o the_o saint_n of_o who_o we_o say_v notice_n shall_v be_v take_v you_o may_v have_v gather_v our_o meaning_n be_v that_o such_o of_o which_o sort_n there_o be_v but_o too_o many_o among_o we_o who_o out_o of_o a_o principle_n of_o carelessness_n sloth_n worldliness_n or_o manifest_a profaneness_n do_v on_o the_o lord_n day_n either_o idle_a out_o the_o time_n or_o else_o be_v worse_o employ_v when_o they_o shall_v resort_v to_o the_o public_a assembly_n and_o who_o as_o they_o be_v no_o friend_n to_o any_o private_a meeting_n for_o the_o good_a of_o their_o soul_n in_o the_o use_n of_o any_o private_a mean_n of_o conference_n or_o prayer_n for_o that_o end_n so_o they_o do_v also_o atheistical_o turn_v their_o back_n on_o all_o the_o public_a ordinance_n forsake_v they_o and_o the_o assembly_n where_o these_o be_v dispense_v shall_v be_v take_v notice_n of_o in_o order_n to_o censure_v if_o there_o be_v not_o reformation_n and_o to_o neither_o of_o which_o sort_n of_o person_n any_o indulgence_n be_v grant_v by_o any_o law_n of_o the_o land_n that_o we_o
yet_o prove_v or_o can_v make_v good_a but_o we_o have_v not_o leisure_n at_o present_a to_o follow_v you_o further_o than_o our_o way_n lie_v and_o therefore_o come_v to_o the_o matter_n in_o hand_n the_o animadversion_n of_o the_o first_o class_n within_o the_o province_n of_o lancaster_n on_o this_o paper_n 1._o first_o there_o be_v no_o reason_n why_o though_o our_o answer_n be_v large_a which_o you_o complain_v of_o see_v it_o be_v in_o order_n to_o and_o necessary_a for_o your_o satisfaction_n that_o shall_v hinder_v your_o acknowledgement_n of_o our_o civility_n towards_o you_o especial_o consider_v those_o sharp_a reflection_n on_o we_o and_o on_o our_o government_n in_o your_o first_o paper_n which_o in_o your_o second_o you_o do_v not_o deny_v and_o which_o minister_v unto_o we_o occasion_n of_o provocation_n but_o we_o be_v resolve_v not_o to_o answer_v you_o in_o your_o own_o kind_n as_o through_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n we_o hope_v though_o we_o must_v deal_v faithful_o with_o you_o we_o shall_v keep_v ourselves_o still_o from_o return_v rail_v for_o rail_v notwithstanding_o in_o this_o paper_n you_o deal_v far_o more_o uncivil_o and_o unchristian_o with_o we_o as_o the_o reader_n will_v perceive_v second_o but_o whereas_o you_o acknowledge_v our_o civility_n only_o so_o far_o as_o it_o relate_v unto_o you_o we_o can_v see_v any_o reason_n for_o this_o restriction_n we_o have_v not_o deal_v uncivil_o with_o any_o that_o we_o have_v occasion_n to_o mention_v or_o quote_v in_o our_o answer_n three_o neither_o do_v we_o give_v any_o occasion_n by_o the_o answer_n we_o give_v you_o to_o your_o second_o paper_n to_o conceive_v that_o we_o intend_v not_o a_o amicable_a union_n and_o composure_n of_o difference_n according_a to_o our_o profession_n of_o our_o cordial_a and_o hearty_a desire_n although_o we_o must_v needs_o confess_v whatever_o your_o hope_n be_v we_o do_v not_o apprehend_v any_o great_a likelihood_n of_o a_o closure_n with_o you_o or_o that_o you_o have_v reason_n so_o to_o conceive_v upon_o the_o term_n you_o propound_v in_o your_o second_o paper_n as_o we_o have_v say_v already_o in_o our_o answer_n to_o it_o except_o you_o think_v we_o may_v be_v court_v out_o of_o our_o principle_n upon_o your_o earnest_a entreaty_n without_o any_o ground_n and_o reason_n at_o all_o four_o we_o can_v but_o wonder_v that_o you_o shall_v say_v with_o any_o qualification_n that_o you_o condescend_v to_o come_v to_o our_o term_n except_o it_o be_v as_o it_o be_v to_o come_v to_o our_o term_n to_o propound_v in_o order_n unto_o peace_n what_o in_o that_o very_a place_n where_o we_o profess_v ourselves_o so_o willing_a and_o desirous_a of_o union_n we_o have_v express_o caution_v against_o as_o be_v thing_n we_o can_v not_o in_o conscience_n yield_v unto_o but_o when_o you_o speak_v of_o your_o condescension_n we_o can_v but_o thereby_o conceive_v your_o meaning_n to_o be_v this_o that_o if_o you_o grant_v preach_v presbyter_n any_o power_n in_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n and_o to_o have_v decisive_a vote_n in_o synod_n where_o the_o bishop_n be_v to_o be_v the_o superintendent_o and_o perpetual_a moderatour_n according_a to_o the_o proposal_n of_o dr._n usher_n you_o think_v you_o condescend_v very_o far_o and_o upon_o this_o and_o other_o ground_n we_o have_v cause_n to_o fear_v if_o the_o roll_a elder_n be_v remove_v and_o you_o shall_v come_v to_o be_v censure_v by_o the_o preach_a presbyter_n your_o exception_n then_o will_v be_v as_o much_o against_o they_o in_o such_o a_o case_n as_o against_o the_o roll_a elder_n now_o and_o that_o then_o you_o will_v cry_v up_o the_o bishop_n as_o have_v the_o solitary_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o that_o it_o belong_v not_o to_o other_o minister_n to_o meddle_v therein_o at_o all_o five_o when_o mention_v our_o profession_n cordial_o to_o desire_v peace_n which_o you_o will_v have_v to_o be_v but_o a_o pretend_v to_o it_o only_o you_o say_v oh_o that_o there_o have_v be_v such_o a_o heart_n in_o we_o we_o must_v needs_o tell_v you_o that_o we_o can_v approve_v our_o heart_n to_o he_o that_o be_v the_o searcher_n of_o they_o that_o there_o be_v then_o and_o be_v still_o a_o cordial_a desire_n of_o peace_n and_o union_n with_o all_o that_o be_v true_o godly_a and_o orthodox_n throughout_o the_o land_n however_o differ_v from_o we_o in_o some_o point_n touch_v discipline_n and_o government_n and_o do_v hearty_o wish_v that_o you_o close_v with_o we_o in_o those_o desire_n as_o cordial_o and_o hearty_o as_o we_o do_v but_o we_o hereby_o perceive_v that_o except_o we_o have_v a_o heart_n for_o episcopacy_n condescend_v by_o you_o for_o the_o present_a to_o be_v moderate_v and_o to_o throw_v out_o the_o roll_a elder_n even_o to_o the_o force_n of_o our_o conscience_n against_o the_o scripture_n we_o urge_v in_o our_o answer_n for_o the_o divine_a right_n of_o their_o office_n and_o against_o the_o scriptural_a argument_n thence_o urge_v to_o which_o we_o refer_v you_o though_o by_o you_o slight_v and_o against_o the_o reason_n also_o we_o urge_v in_o our_o answer_n where_o we_o caution_v against_o moderate_a episcopacy_n never_o so_o much_o as_o attempt_v to_o be_v answer_v by_o you_o you_o judge_v we_o to_o have_v no_o heart_n for_o peace_n six_o whereas_o you_o say_v our_o discourse_n concern_v the_o civil_a sanction_n of_o our_o presbyterian_a government_n which_o produce_v the_o authority_n that_o awarrant_v all_o that_o be_v in_o that_o paper_n we_o publish_v in_o our_o several_a congregation_n and_o whatever_o we_o have_v act_v in_o the_o exercise_n of_o that_o government_n from_o the_o first_o to_o the_o last_o since_o it_o be_v set_v up_o be_v needless_a we_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o reader_n to_o judge_v of_o when_o he_o shall_v consider_v that_o in_o your_o first_o paper_n you_o tell_v we_o of_o our_o make_a law_n and_o edict_n and_o publish_v they_o open_o in_o the_o church_n for_o all_o to_o obey_v upon_o pain_n of_o excommunication_n contrary_a to_o the_o law_n in_o force_n and_o that_o it_o concern_v we_o to_o look_v unto_o it_o whether_o we_o have_v not_o run_v ourselves_o into_o a_o praemunire_n seven_o but_o it_o seem_v you_o count_v that_o discourse_n also_o tedious_a though_o it_o be_v necessary_a both_o for_o our_o own_o vindincation_n and_o to_o give_v you_o full_a and_o particular_a satisfaction_n touch_v the_o rule_n prescribe_v unto_o we_o in_o the_o form_n of_o church-government_n to_o walk_v by_o beside_o that_o this_o fair_a manner_n of_o deal_n with_o you_o in_o bring_v to_o your_o hand_n what_o we_o judge_v you_o may_v never_o have_v inquire_v after_o give_v you_o the_o opportunity_n to_o have_v except_v against_o we_o for_o transgress_v our_o rule_n if_o you_o have_v any_o thing_n to_o have_v allege_v against_o we_o in_o that_o respect_n but_o perhaps_o the_o mention_v of_o any_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n and_o rule_v therein_o express_v for_o the_o presbyterian_a 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province_n and_o appoint_v this_o class_n to_o be_v the_o first_o be_v all_o do_v by_o authority_n of_o parliament_n this_o be_v the_o inference_n that_o we_o make_v from_o our_o recital_n close_a of_o the_o order_n and_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n that_o be_v mention_v in_o our_o answer_n and_o which_o be_v occasion_v by_o yourselves_o who_o have_v entitle_v we_o in_o your_o first_o paper_n the_o first_o class_n at_o manchester_n within_o the_o province_n of_o lancaster_n then_o present_o add_v give_v we_o leave_v to_o salute_v you_o in_o your_o own_o term_n we_o judge_v you_o may_v be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o particular_a order_n and_o ordinance_n touch_v what_o concern_v this_o province_n of_o lancaster_n and_o this_o class_n in_o particular_a in_o the_o particular_n abovementioned_a though_o you_o may_v have_v see_v some_o ordinance_n in_o the_o general_n for_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n and_o which_o
submission_n to_o synod_n and_o council_n be_v any_o sound_a then_o as_o we_o understand_v you_o to_o have_v mean_v those_o word_n and_o which_o we_o doubt_v not_o but_o he_o will_v discern_v from_o what_o have_v be_v say_v concern_v it_o in_o the_o animadversion_n go_v before_o 5._o but_o by_o this_o explication_n of_o yourselves_o you_o have_v create_v to_o we_o a_o further_a scruple_n for_o it_o aâ—peats_v to_o we_o from_o thence_o see_v you_o join_v the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o constant_a practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n together_o as_o that_o which_o must_v make_v those_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o article_n of_o religion_n so_o plain_a to_o you_o that_o you_o thereupon_o will_v refuse_v to_o submit_v such_o matter_n so_o make_v plain_a and_o your_o apprehension_n concern_v they_o to_o a_o general_a council_n that_o except_o the_o plain_a matter_n of_o faith_n and_o article_n of_o religion_n from_o god_n word_n be_v also_o make_v plain_a to_o have_v be_v the_o constant_a practice_n rather_o judgement_n as_o we_o think_v you_o shall_v have_v express_v it_o of_o the_o catholic_a church_n they_o be_v not_o so_o plain_a to_o you_o as_o not_o to_o submit_v your_o apprehension_n concern_v they_o to_o a_o general_a council_n and_o so_o the_o word_n of_o god_n alone_o even_o in_o the_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o article_n of_o religion_n that_o be_v therein_o most_o plain_o contain_v shall_v not_o be_v a_o sufficient_a foundation_n to_o bottom_v your_o faith_n upon_o except_o it_o be_v also_o evident_a what_o be_v the_o constant_a and_o universal_a practice_n rather_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n in_o those_o point_n and_o so_o your_o faith_n even_o in_o the_o plain_a article_n of_o religion_n must_v be_v resolve_v into_o the_o constant_a practice_n or_o rather_o declare_v judgement_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n and_o which_o make_v it_o a_o mere_a humane_a not_o a_o divine_a faith_n but_o touch_v this_o as_o the_o rule_n in_o any_o case_n of_o matter_n of_o religion_n we_o shall_v have_v further_a occasion_n to_o speak_v in_o our_o animadversion_n on_o the_o six_o section_n of_o this_o paper_n 6._o as_o touch_v ourselves_o we_o have_v declare_v that_o we_o do_v not_o submit_v to_o synod_n and_o council_n so_o as_o to_o build_v our_o faith_n on_o their_o dictate_v or_o resolve_v it_o into_o their_o determination_n and_o in_o this_o we_o will_v be_v understand_v touch_v all_o matter_n of_o faith_n whatsoever_o not_o only_o those_o that_o be_v most_o plain_o contain_v in_o god_n word_n but_o also_o such_o as_o about_o which_o there_o may_v be_v some_o doubt_n and_o difficulty_n although_o we_o reverence_v synod_n as_o a_o ordinance_n of_o god_n and_o in_o way_n of_o mean_n judge_v it_o more_o likely_a in_o doubtful_a case_n that_o what_o be_v god_n mind_n shall_v be_v bolt_v forth_o to_o our_o satisfaction_n by_o the_o learned_a debate_n of_o learned_a judicious_a and_o godly_a divine_n in_o such_o assembly_n then_o by_o the_o discussion_n of_o one_o bishop_n or_o some_o few_o minister_n but_o as_o touch_v the_o juridical_a power_n of_o synod_n we_o profess_v ourselves_o to_o be_v ready_a to_o submit_v to_o their_o judgement_n and_o do_v so_o submit_v our_o paper_n whole_o to_o the_o judgement_n of_o our_o provincial_n which_o be_v a_o synod_n actual_o in_o be_v and_o to_o who_o we_o know_v ourselves_o to_o be_v accountable_a and_o judge_v we_o ought_v so_o to_o be_v think_v it_o not_o meet_v to_o publish_v the_o paper_n that_o be_v read_v in_o our_o several_a congregation_n except_o it_o have_v first_o be_v approve_v of_o by_o they_o now_o how_o far_o we_o do_v in_o this_o declaration_n of_o our_o judgement_n touch_v our_o submission_n to_o synod_n and_o council_n concur_v with_o what_o here_o you_o declare_v to_o be_v you_o we_o leave_v it_o to_o yourselves_o and_o the_o reader_n to_o judge_n of_o but_o we_o be_v sure_o there_o be_v herein_o a_o great_a distance_n betwixt_o your_o declare_a judgement_n and_o we_o though_o you_o shall_v not_o find_v afterward_o that_o we_o do_v hardly_o grant_v that_o to_o a_o general_a council_n right_o constitute_v and_o regular_o call_v which_o we_o either_o in_o truth_n or_o any_o show_n do_v grant_v to_o our_o provincial_n the_o gentleman_n paper_n sect._n iii_o have_v do_v with_o our_o preface_n you_o come_v to_o the_o matter_n and_o as_o we_o say_v now_o so_o we_o find_v we_o much_o dissent_v not_o only_o in_o the_o three_o and_o last_o concern_v the_o heresy_n and_o schism_n of_o those_o who_o err_v so_o gross_o whether_o in_o doctrinal_n or_o point_n of_o discipline_n you_o give_v we_o the_o reason_n wherefore_o you_o do_v not_o so_o express_o mention_v they_o their_o sin_n and_o punishment_n as_o the_o gross_o ignorant_a and_o scandalous_a which_o be_v because_o they_o be_v very_o inconsiderable_a in_o comparison_n of_o the_o other_o and_o in_o sundry_a of_o your_o congregation_n if_o not_o in_o most_o not_o any_o at_o all_o that_o you_o know_v of_o but_o if_o you_o will_v serious_o consider_v the_o number_n of_o those_o that_o have_v rend_v themselves_o from_o a_o true_a constitute_v church_n and_o of_o those_o who_o have_v sever_v themselves_o from_o those_o bishop_n unto_o who_o they_o have_v swear_v canonical_a obedience_n and_o therefore_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o that_o learned_a and_o rever_n end_n bishop_n usher_n and_o other_o cop_z can_v possible_o be_v excuse_v from_o be_v schismatical_a we_o say_v if_o you_o consider_v this_o you_o will_v find_v a_o considerable_a number_n even_o within_o the_o verge_n of_o your_o own_o association_n association_n what_o we_o say_v touch_v the_o way_n of_o catechise_n for_o information_n of_o the_o ignorant_a we_o be_v glad_a to_o hear_v you_o so_o hearty_o wish_v for_o a_o more_o general_a practice_n thereof_o in_o your_o church_n at_o home_n at_o you_o say_v it_o be_v practise_v abroad_o it_o be_v enjoin_v and_o practise_v in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n before_o your_o separation_n and_o if_o you_o by_o your_o pretend_a reformation_n have_v destroy_v that_o practice_n the_o fault_n lie_v at_o your_o own_o door_n you_o understand_v we_o aright_o in_o this_o that_o we_o hold_v it_o not_o fit_v that_o person_n gross_o ignotant_n shall_v be_v admit_v so_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n but_o your_o conclusion_n thence_o be_v not_o good_a viz._n that_o we_o can_v therefore_o in_o reason_n deny_v that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v a_o examination_n and_o trial_n of_o all_o person_n de_fw-la novo_fw-la before_o they_o be_v admit_v &c_n &c_n especial_o by_o your_o eldership_n to_o who_o you_o say_v the_o power_n of_o judgement_n and_o examination_n be_v commit_v and_o not_o to_o any_o one_o minister_n before_o who_o all_o must_v come_v for_o re-examination_n whatsoever_o their_o trial_n and_o examination_n heretofore_o have_v be_v those_o person_n who_o have_v ancient_o be_v catechize_v and_o have_v be_v a_o long_a time_n commoner_n at_o the_o lord_n table_n and_o witness_v a_o good_a confession_n for_o part_n and_o piety_n must_v these_o again_o yield_v themselves_o to_o the_o examination_n of_o a_o eldership_n before_o they_o can_v be_v admit_v pardon_v we_o if_o herein_o we_o pronounce_v a_o dissent_n from_o you_o concern_v the_o scandalous_a and_o wicked_a in_o their_o life_n you_o say_v we_o full_o come_v up_o to_o you_o and_o be_v glad_a there_o be_v a_o agreement_n in_o judgement_n betwixt_o we_o thus_o far_o viz._n that_o the_o church_n lawful_a pastor_n have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v such_o upon_o which_o you_o say_v you_o can_v see_v how_o we_o in_o reason_n can_v find_v fault_n with_o your_o proceed_n in_o such_o a_o way_n against_o such_o person_n though_o your_o roll_a elder_n which_o in_o our_o judgement_n aâ—e_v but_o mere_a lay-man_n do_v join_v in_o the_o government_n with_o you_o there_o be_v another_o non_fw-la sequitur_fw-la a_o conclusion_n as_o bad_a as_o the_o former_a and_o the_o reason_n of_o that_o conclusion_n as_o weak_a as_o the_o rest_n because_o high-commissioner_n chancellor_n and_o commissary_n in_o the_o time_n of_o episcopacy_n to_o which_o government_n we_o submit_v that_o be_v as_o much_o layman_n as_o your_o roll_a elder_n have_v so_o great_a a_o share_n as_o to_o suspend_v minister_n etc._n etc._n and_o so_o far_o as_o to_o decree_v the_o sentence_n of_o excommunication_n against_o they_o and_o other_o as_o there_o be_v occasion_n for_o it_o for_o when_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o these_o chancellor_n commissary_n etc._n etc._n do_v not_o officiate_v by_o deputation_n from_o and_o under_o a_o lawful_a pastor_n but_o in_o equal_a right_n with_o he_o and_o jure_fw-la divino_fw-la as_o your_o roll_a elder_n do_v then_o your_o comparison_n of_o they_o and_o your_o roll_a elder_n may_v hold_v good_a till_o than_o it_o be_v weak_a and_o frivolous_a now_o whereas_o you_o desire_v to_o
apostle_n in_o the_o synod_n at_o jerusalem_n and_o the_o father_n of_o the_o nicene_n council_n and_o other_o we_o instance_a in_o to_o endeavour_v their_o conviction_n in_o the_o due_a use_n of_o all_o good_a mean_n before_o there_o be_v a_o process_n to_o excommunication_n we_o remember_v also_o how_o quick_a the_o prelate_n be_v in_o thunder_v out_o their_o excommunication_n against_o such_o as_o though_o godly_a and_o religious_a be_v in_o those_o time_n account_v by_o they_o to_o be_v schismatical_a and_o we_o think_v it_o requisite_a to_o bear_v witness_n against_o those_o manner_n of_o proceed_n but_o of_o this_o you_o take_v no_o notice_n and_o we_o do_v not_o much_o wonder_n for_o we_o see_v you_o count_v all_o those_o that_o sever_v themselves_o from_o the_o bishop_n schismatical_a and_o may_v be_v if_o they_o have_v power_n again_o in_o their_o hand_n you_o do_v not_o much_o matter_n though_o you_o be_v willing_a the_o scandalous_a shall_v be_v admonish_v before_o if_o all_o these_o for_o their_o great_a schism_n in_o your_o esteem_n be_v forthwith_o excommunicate_v three_o as_o touch_v public_a catechise_v we_o say_v we_o hearty_o wish_v it_o have_v be_v more_o general_o practise_v in_o our_o own_o church_n at_o home_n as_o it_o be_v practise_v by_o the_o reform_a church_n abroad_o but_o by_o our_o own_o church_n we_o mean_v the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o it_o be_v a_o national_a church_n and_o in_o which_o though_o catechise_v be_v enjoin_v in_o former_a time_n yet_o it_o be_v neither_o so_o general_o and_o constant_o practise_v as_o it_o shall_v have_v be_v else_o we_o shall_v not_o have_v have_v so_o much_o cause_n to_o have_v complain_v of_o the_o gross_a ignorance_n of_o so_o many_o age_a person_n in_o our_o congregation_n who_o be_v nor_o train_v up_o under_o the_o presbyterian_a but_o prelatical_a government_n as_o now_o we_o have_v and_o here_o we_o observe_v that_o when_o you_o profess_v you_o be_v glad_a to_o hear_v we_o so_o hearty_o 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it_o so_o we_o profess_v to_o be_v for_o private_a too_o that_o so_o such_o as_o be_v not_o like_a in_o regard_n of_o age_n or_o timorousness_n to_o be_v bring_v to_o instruction_n by_o the_o public_a may_v yet_o by_o the_o private_a gain_n some_o knowledge_n in_o the_o paper_n also_o that_o be_v publish_v in_o the_o congregation_n there_o be_v some_o order_n appoint_v for_o the_o better_a and_o more_o convenient_a practice_n of_o it_o and_o doubtless_o by_o how_o much_o we_o be_v willing_a to_o be_v at_o the_o more_o pain_n for_o the_o information_n of_o the_o ignorant_a the_o great_a fault_n will_v lie_v at_o your_o door_n and_o be_v charge_v upon_o you_o if_o you_o repent_v not_o of_o it_o that_o by_o your_o opposition_n you_o have_v not_o only_o labour_v to_o obstruct_v the_o good_a course_n by_o we_o propound_v for_o the_o help_n of_o poor_a ignorant_a soul_n but_o accuse_v we_o also_o that_o by_o our_o pretend_a reformation_n we_o have_v destroy_v catechise_v here_o also_o we_o take_v notice_n that_o however_o in_o your_o first_o paper_n you_o have_v a_o proviso_n touch_v catechise_v that_o it_o be_v public_a and_o that_o we_o thereupon_o give_v you_o some_o reason_n though_o brief_o for_o private_a catechise_v yet_o this_o you_o whole_o pass_v over_o in_o silence_n and_o say_v nothing_o to_o it_o thus_o you_o pretend_v to_o make_v a_o reply_n to_o our_o answer_n and_o yet_o but_o speak_v to_o what_o of_o it_o you_o please_v but_o if_o you_o have_v manifest_v any_o dissatisfaction_n touch_v private_a catechise_v we_o shall_v here_o have_v proceed_v to_o have_v give_v further_a reason_n for_o it_o although_o this_o work_n be_v so_o full_o do_v to_o our_o hand_n by_o mr._n baxter_n in_o his_o gildas_n salvianus_n that_o it_o will_v have_v be_v needless_a unto_o those_o that_o have_v read_v that_o book_n and_o whereunto_o for_o his_o further_a satisfaction_n we_o refer_v the_o reader_n if_o he_o desire_v it_o four_o if_o we_o understand_v you_o aright_o in_o this_o that_o you_o hold_v it_o not_o fit_v that_o person_n gross_o ignorant_a shall_v be_v admit_v to_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n the_o conclusion_n that_o we_o infer_v hence_o stand_v good_a against_o any_o thing_n bring_v by_o you_o to_o invalidate_v it_o but_o here_o we_o observe_v you_o stretch_v it_o beyond_o its_o scope_n and_o that_o in_o two_o particular_n 1._o in_o that_o you_o will_v have_v it_o refer_v to_o examination_n before_o the_o eldership_n which_o be_v not_o that_o which_o we_o speak_v of_o we_o only_o say_v there_o ought_v to_o be_v examination_n and_o trial_n of_o all_o person_n before_o they_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o lord_n supper_n not_o determine_v here_o touch_v the_o person_n by_o who_o this_o examination_n be_v to_o be_v make_v but_o only_o infer_v that_o then_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v this_o examination_n that_o so_o the_o gross_o ignorant_a may_v not_o be_v admit_v as_o they_o may_v be_v if_o all_o promiscucus_o be_v to_o be_v admit_v without_o any_o trial_n at_o all_o and_o which_o be_v the_o reason_n that_o we_o allege_v in_o our_o answer_n for_o the_o inference_n we_o make_v and_o which_o still_o stand_v good_a you_o urge_v nothing_o at_o all_o to_o take_v away_o the_o strength_n of_o it_o it_o be_v true_a that_o the_o examination_n and_o judgement_n of_o all_o such_o as_o shall_v for_o their_o ignorance_n not_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n be_v to_o be_v in_o the_o power_n of_o the_o eldership_n of_o every_o congregation_n and_o not_o in_o the_o power_n of_o one_o minister_n only_o by_o the_o rule_n of_o our_o government_n 30._o but_o this_o be_v not_o the_o thing_n we_o there_o speak_v of_o we_o only_o conclude_v that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v a_o examination_n and_o hope_v that_o we_o have_v gain_v from_o your_o own_o concession_n this_o one_o further_a step_n towards_o a_o agreement_n betwixt_o you_o and_o we_o that_o all_o such_o person_n as_o shall_v be_v admit_v to_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n must_v be_v examine_v by_o some_o or_o other_o not_o determine_v by_o who_o there_o be_v no_o way_n to_o discover_v the_o ignorant_a but_o by_o trial_n and_o as_o touch_v our_o practice_n it_o be_v well_o know_v that_o when_o the_o eldership_n be_v satisfy_v touch_v the_o knowledge_n of_o such_o as_o offer_v themselves_o to_o that_o sacrament_n upon_o the_o examination_n of_o a_o minister_n and_o one_o elder_a or_o upon_o the_o examination_n of_o two_o minister_n however_o none_o be_v to_o bâ—_n debar_v for_o their_o ignorance_n but_o by_o the_o juridical_a act_n of_o the_o eldership_n and_o which_o be_v for_o the_o better_a secure_n of_o the_o church-priveledges_a to_o the_o member_n then_o to_o have_v leave_v the_o power_n to_o the_o minister_n alone_o such_o be_v not_o require_v to_o be_v examine_v before_o the_o eldership_n but_o be_v upon_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o examiner_n there_o be_v nothing_o to_o be_v object_v just_o against_o they_o admit_v by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o eldership_n 2._o there_o be_v also_o another_o thing_n wherein_o you_o will_v make_v our_o inference_n to_o be_v that_o which_o indeed_o it_o be_v not_o for_o neither_o do_v we_o speak_v concern_v any_o examination_n de_fw-fr novo_fw-la of_o such_o person_n as_o have_v be_v former_o admit_v our_o word_n recite_v even_o now_o and_o to_o be_v see_v in_o our_o answer_n do_v plain_o speak_v concern_v a_o examination_n before_o admission_n to_o the_o lord_n supper_n not_o concern_v a_o examination_n de_fw-fr novo_fw-la indeed_o we_o shall_v neither_o be_v ashamed_a of_o nor_o deny_v what_o be_v our_o practice_n which_o be_v to_o take_v a_o trial_n of_o all_o the_o communicant_n de_fw-fr novo_fw-la before_o admission_n of_o they_o to_o the_o lord_n supper_n we_o
the_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n government_n office_n and_o ordinance_n be_v first_o give_v to_o the_o universal_a visible_a church_n before_o they_o be_v give_v to_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a church_n although_o it_o be_v true_a also_o that_o he_o who_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n must_v also_o be_v a_o member_n of_o some_o particular_a church_n under_o the_o discipline_n and_o government_n thereof_o but_o we_o do_v not_o argue_v from_o what_o make_v you_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n to_o prove_v you_o to_o be_v member_n of_o some_o one_o or_o other_o of_o our_o particular_a church_n and_o so_o to_o be_v under_o the_o government_n of_o this_o class_n this_o we_o prove_v from_o individuate_a circumstance_n because_o within_o the_o bound_n of_o our_o association_n appoint_v by_o authority_n of_o parliament_n and_o other_o circumstance_n and_o so_o we_o do_v not_o say_v that_o except_o man_n renounce_v christianity_n and_o their_o baptism_n they_o be_v subject_a to_o our_o government_n but_o we_o say_v we_o look_v upon_o all_o those_o within_o the_o bound_n of_o our_o association_n who_o have_v not_o renounce_v christianity_n and_o their_o baptism_n of_o which_o sort_n we_o know_v not_o any_o among_o we_o as_o person_n we_o have_v a_o inspection_n over_o and_o appoint_v by_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n to_o be_v subject_a to_o our_o government_n which_o yet_o we_o exercise_v towards_o all_o according_a to_o those_o rule_n and_o that_o moderation_n that_o be_v prescribe_v in_o the_o form_n of_o church_n government_n and_o thus_o we_o have_v answer_v all_o that_o you_o have_v here_o present_v to_o take_v off_o our_o government_n from_o its_o establishment_n by_o the_o civil_a sanction_n for_o it_o be_v not_o your_o come_n over_o again_o with_o the_o act_n of_o 1650._o already_o answer_v and_o bid_v we_o to_o read_v it_o nor_o your_o bid_v we_o to_o read_v the_o close_a of_o the_o eleven_o section_n of_o the_o humble_a advice_n and_o not_o prove_v any_o thing_n in_o the_o form_n of_o church_n government_n to_o be_v contrary_a to_o it_o that_o will_v prove_v either_o a_o express_a or_o implicit_a repeal_n though_o press_v with_o never_o so_o much_o vehemency_n of_o expression_n that_o only_o proclaim_v your_o heat_n and_o earnest_a desire_n to_o have_v it_o so_o and_o how_o glad_o you_o will_v be_v believe_v upon_o your_o word_n and_o confidence_n in_o this_o matter_n when_o you_o want_v further_a argument_n to_o make_v out_o what_o you_o say_v the_o gentleman_n paper_n sect._n v._n and_o thus_o have_v prove_v your_o presbyterian_a government_n to_o have_v the_o civil_a sanction_n just_a thus_o and_o no_o otherwise_o you_o come_v now_o to_o answer_v more_o particular_o to_o that_o which_o follow_v and_o first_o you_o explicate_v what_o be_v before_o dark_a unto_o we_o who_o be_v mean_v by_o the_o many_o person_n of_o all_o sort_n that_o be_v member_n of_o congregation_n etc._n etc._n and_o you_o tell_v we_o all_o person_n be_v within_o your_o verge_n none_o without_o except_o they_o will_v renounce_v christianity_n and_o their_o baptism_n but_o be_v within_o the_o verge_n of_o your_o presbyterian_a government_n their_o not_o associate_a with_o you_o in_o regard_n of_o government_n do_v not_o exempt_v they_o from_o censure_n by_o it_o etc._n etc._n independent_o anabaptist_n and_o other_o all_o be_v subject_a and_o censure_v by_o your_o government_n if_o they_o shall_v censurable_a be_v such_o offender_n as_o by_o the_o rule_n thereof_o be_v just_o censurable_a it_o be_v not_o a_o matter_n arbitrary_a for_o private_a person_n at_o their_o own_o will_n and_o pleasure_n to_o exempt_v themselves_o from_o under_o that_o ecclesiastical_a government_n that_o be_v settle_v by_o authority_n here_o gentleman_n you_o may_v do_v well_o to_o consider_v whether_o you_o do_v not_o subject_v yourselves_o to_o the_o contempt_n and_o scorn_n of_o all_o other_o party_n who_o conceit_n they_o have_v as_o full_a power_n by_o etc._n their_o rule_n of_o church_n discipline_n to_o censure_v you_o as_o you_o have_v they_o jam_fw-la sumus_fw-la ergo_fw-la pares_fw-la yet_o they_o dare_v not_o censure_n or_o punish_v any_o out_o of_o their_o church_n membership_n contrary_a to_o the_o several_a act_n make_v for_o toleration_n to_o the_o act_n of_o the_o 27._o september_n 1650._o and_o to_o the_o express_a article_n in_o the_o humble_a advice_n above_o mention_v if_o you_o be_v so_o bold_a we_o have_v tell_v you_o before_o and_o tell_v you_o again_o a_o ordinance_n of_o lord_n and_o commons_o for_o settle_v of_o your_o fresbyterian_a government_n will_v be_v no_o sufficient_a plea_n for_o your_o act_n contrary_a to_o the_o know_a law_n since_o make_v but_o will_v prove_v you_o contemner_n of_o all_o civil_a power_n and_o may_v run_v you_o upon_o a_o praemunire_n but_o here_o you_o seem_v offend_v at_o we_o for_o call_v presbytery_n a_o common_a fold_n what_o presbytery_n a_o know_a scripture_n expression_n 1_o tim._n 4._o and_o interpret_v by_o object_n sundry_a of_o the_o father_n as_o we_o do_v as_o have_v be_v before_o declare_v to_o be_v term_v a_o common_a fold_n you_o may_v have_v use_v a_o more_o civil_a expression_n what_o presbytery_n interpret_v by_o sundry_a of_o the_o father_n as_o you_o do_v how_o be_v that_o we_o shall_v tell_v you_o the_o father_n be_v different_a in_o the_o sense_n and_o interpretation_n answ_n of_o this_o word_n presbytery_n in_o the_o scripture_n expression_n 1_o tim._n 4._o the_o latin_a father_n general_o as_o hierome_n ambrose_n primasius_n anselm_n and_o other_o take_v this_o word_n presbytery_n for_o the_o function_n which_o timothy_n receive_v when_o he_o be_v make_v bishop_n or_o priest_n and_o thus_o calvin_n take_v it_o in_o his_o institutes_n quod_fw-la de_fw-la impositione_n manuum_fw-la presbyterii_fw-la dicitur_fw-la â—non_fw-la ità _fw-la accipio_fw-la quasi_fw-la paulus_n de_fw-la seniorum_fw-la fine_a collegio_fw-la loquatur_fw-la sedhoc_fw-la nomine_fw-la ordinationem_fw-la ipsam_fw-la intelligo_fw-la the_o greek_a father_n as_o ignatius_n chrysostome_n theodoret_n theophilact_fw-mi oecumenius_n and_o other_o and_o some_o few_o of_o the_o latin_n also_o take_v it_o for_o the_o company_n of_o presbyter_n i._n e._n bishop_n who_o lay_v hand_n on_o the_o new_a make_v bishop_n or_o priest_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n likewise_o in_o his_o comment_n upon_o this_o place_n it_o be_v interpret_v by_o calvin_n say_v presbyterium_fw-la qui_fw-la hic_fw-la collectivum_fw-la nomen_fw-la esse_fw-la putant_fw-la pro_fw-la collegio_fw-la presbyterorum_fw-la positum_fw-la rectè_fw-la sâ—nâ—iunt_fw-la meo_fw-la judicio_fw-la although_o he_o be_v here_o as_o flat_a opposite_a to_o his_o former_a judgement_n as_o high_a noon_n be_v to_o midnight_n and_o we_o fear_v wander_v we_o shall_v find_v you_o as_o waver_a and_o unsettle_a in_o you_o when_o it_o come_v to_o scan_v for_o divers_a of_o the_o father_n you_o say_v interpret_v this_o word_n as_o you_o do_v and_o as_o you_o have_v before_o declare_v now_o how_o you_o interpret_v it_o and_o where_o to_o find_v this_o place_n where_o it_o be_v before_o declare_v that_o your_o interpretation_n agree_v with_o sundry_a of_o the_o father_n we_o have_v not_o yet_o discover_v indeed_o we_o find_v you_o quote_v dr_n usher_n that_o learned_a and_o reverend_a antiquary_n to_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n of_o synod_n and_o assembly_n and_o thereby_o you_o think_v he_o vindicate_v your_o assembly_n in_o our_o thought_n from_o all_o suspicion_n of_o novelty_n we_o find_v also_o by_o you_o out_o of_o he_o there_o quote_v certain_a father_n as_o first_o ignatius_n who_o by_o presbytery_n mention_v by_o paul_n 1_o tim._n 4._o 14._o do_v understand_v the_o community_n of_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o presbyter_n or_o elder_n and_o for_o further_a proof_n tertullian_n be_v allege_v in_o his_o general_a apology_n for_o christian_n that_o old-beaten_a say_n by_o you_o and_o your_o party_n president_n probati_fw-la quique_fw-la seniores_fw-la etc._n etc._n now_o do_v these_o interpret_v as_o you_o do_v be_v presbytery_n such_o as_o you_o pretend_v to_o be_v establish_v by_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n and_o such_o as_o you_o stand_v for_o in_o your_o sense_n be_v it_o we_o say_v so_o understand_v by_o dr_n usher_n and_o do_v he_o bring_v in_o these_o father_n speak_v in_o this_o sense_n if_o we_o press_v you_o to_o stand_v to_o their_o opinion_n and_o sense_n you_o will_v run_v back_o how_o may_v you_o then_o for_o shame_n assert_v that_o their_o interpretation_n be_v the_o same_o with_o you_o dr_n usher_n judgement_n of_o assembly_n agree_v with_o you_o and_o his_o proposal_n of_o assembly_n be_v the_o same_o in_o substance_n with_o you_o who_o you_o quote_v you_o say_v as_o more_o likely_a to_o sway_v with_o we_o in_o case_n we_o do_v differ_v from_o you_o in_o this_o point_n and_o here_o these_o father_n be_v bring_v in_o give_v the_o same_o interpretation_n as_o you_o do_v will_v you_o thus_o confident_o assert_v
the_o work_n and_o it_o be_v only_o in_o one_o way_n which_o be_v brief_o this_o sc_n what_o exposition_n the_o father_n unanimous_o give_v of_o any_o text_n of_o scripture_n that_o must_v be_v receive_v and_o what_o exposiition_n can_v be_v back_v with_o their_o concurrent_a testimony_n that_o be_v to_o be_v reject_v and_o this_o aught_o to_o satisfy_v but_o unto_o this_o one_o answer_n do_v serve_v the_o turn_n sc_n that_o your_o principle_n be_v unsound_a and_o very_a corrupt_a and_o which_o have_v be_v already_o in_o our_o answer_n to_o this_o section_n so_o full_o evidence_v that_o it_o be_v needless_a here_o to_o add_v any_o more_o and_o this_o for_o answer_v to_o what_o you_o present_v in_o this_o section_n may_v be_v sufficient_a the_o gentleman_n paper_n sect._n vii_o but_o now_o as_o to_o you_o and_o what_o follow_v say_v you_o and_o so_o go_v on_o mintain_v your_o power_n of_o excommunication_n and_o the_o extent_n of_o it_o be_v as_o you_o pretend_v back_v by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n which_o authority_n be_v take_v off_o by_o several_a subsequent_a act_n of_o parliament_n and_o so_o your_o church-government_n and_o church-censure_n be_v of_o no_o force_n upon_o any_o but_o such_o as_o be_v willing_o and_o no_o long_o than_o they_o be_v willing_o subject_v thereto_o as_o we_o have_v show_v before_o the_o civil_a sword_n do_v and_o can_v reach_v other_o your_o ecclesiastical_a can_v the_o act_n inflict_v a_o civil_a punishment_n whether_o corporal_a or_o pecuniary_a upon_o all_o lawless_a person_n whether_o such_o as_o contemn_v god_n law_n or_o man_n and_o not_o a_o spiritual_a and_o therefore_o not_o censurable_a by_o you_o and_o this_o be_v a_o mistake_n of_o you_o to_o think_v that_o notwithstanding_o the_o punishment_n inflict_v upon_o the_o offender_n by_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n you_o may_v for_o the_o same_o offence_n proceed_v to_o execute_v church-censure_n also_o so_o a_o man_n may_v come_v to_o be_v punish_v 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against_o drunkenness_n swear_v profanation_n of_o the_o sabbath_n etc._n etc._n enjoin_v punishment_n by_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n only_o have_v utter_o take_v off_o all_o power_n of_o excommunication_n and_o therefore_o our_o advice_n to_o you_o to_o complain_v to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n of_o such_o lawless_a person_n be_v not_o amiss_o because_o that_o sword_n be_v sharp_a and_o long_o than_o any_o you_o have_v or_o can_v pretend_v to_o the_o animadversion_n of_o the_o class_n upon_o it_o 1._o if_o we_o go_v on_o to_o maintain_v our_o power_n of_o censure_v the_o scandalous_a according_a to_o what_o as_o we_o tell_v you_o both_o god_n and_o the_o civil_a authority_n have_v entrust_v we_o with_o it_o concern_v you_o the_o more_o to_o have_v make_v good_a what_o you_o undertake_v but_o herein_o you_o have_v fall_v short_a as_o we_o have_v sufficient_o prove_v by_o what_o we_o have_v say_v in_o answer_n to_o the_o four_o section_n of_o this_o paper_n whereby_o also_o we_o doubt_v not_o but_o it_o will_v appear_v that_o we_o be_v back_v by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o that_o this_o authority_n be_v not_o take_v off_o by_o any_o subsequent_a act_n of_o parliament_n that_o you_o have_v instance_a in_o and_o that_o therefore_o our_o church_n government_n and_o censure_n be_v still_o of_o force_n and_o that_o it_o do_v not_o depend_v on_o the_o voluntariness_n of_o the_o member_n of_o our_o several_a congregation_n be_v subject_n thereunto_o but_o upon_o the_o parliament_n appoint_v they_o to_o this_o subjection_n that_o any_o person_n within_o the_o bound_n of_o this_o association_n be_v subject_a to_o this_o government_n 2._o we_o do_v ready_o grant_v the_o civil_a sword_n do_v and_o can_v reach_v as_o those_o offender_n against_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n that_o submit_v to_o the_o church_n censure_n so_o also_o those_o that_o be_v unwilling_a to_o be_v subject_a thereunto_o but_o your_o argument_n be_v very_o inconsequent_a when_o you_o will_v infer_v that_o the_o act_n or_o act_n of_o parliament_n inflict_v a_o civil_a punishment_n whether_o corporal_a or_o pecuniary_a upon_o all_o lawless_a person_n whether_o such_o as_o contemn_v god_n law_n or_o man_n and_o not_o a_o spiritual_a therefore_o such_o offender_n be_v not_o censurable_a by_o we_o for_o except_v there_o have_v be_v some_o late_a act_n that_o have_v repeal_v the_o ordinance_n of_o 1648_o for_o church_n government_n that_o appoint_v the_o inflict_a of_o spiritual_a censure_n such_o offender_n as_o be_v just_o censurable_a by_o that_o ordinance_n be_v still_o censurable_a by_o we_o neither_o do_v we_o yet_o see_v how_o it_o be_v our_o mistake_n to_o think_v that_o notwithstanding_o the_o punishment_n inflict_v upon_o the_o offendor_n by_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n we_o may_v for_o the_o same_o offence_n proceed_v to_o execute_v church_n censure_n also_o or_o that_o it_o be_v either_o sound_a divinity_n or_o good_a law_n that_o a_o man_n may_v not_o be_v punish_v twice_o for_o one_o offence_n which_o yet_o be_v the_o argument_n whereby_o you_o will_v prove_v we_o therein_o for_o to_o mistake_v indeed_o we_o hold_v it_o not_o just_a that_o one_o and_o the_o same_o person_n shall_v be_v punish_v twice_o for_o one_o and_o the_o same_o offence_n with_o one_o and_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o punishment_n but_o that_o such_o offender_n as_o be_v punishable_a by_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n with_o civil_a punishment_n may_v be_v proceed_v against_o by_o the_o church_n with_o church_n censure_n be_v manifest_a 1._o from_o your_o censure_n own_o concession_n you_o have_v grant_v in_o your_o first_o paper_n that_o such_o as_o be_v scandalous_a and_o wicked_a in_o their_o life_n be_v to_o be_v admonish_v both_o public_o and_o private_o and_o that_o if_o notwithstanding_o they_o continue_v still_o in_o their_o scandalous_a course_n and_o will_v not_o reform_v the_o church_n lawful_a pastor_n have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v such_o and_o in_o your_o second_o paper_n it_o be_v one_o of_o the_o argument_n you_o urge_v to_o bring_v we_o to_o a_o compliance_n with_o your_o proposal_n there_o that_o by_o that_o mean_v the_o life_n and_o manner_n of_o dissolute_a person_n may_v with_o brotherly_a admonition_n and_o exhortation_n be_v reclaim_v or_o by_o due_a censure_n be_v correct_v and_o amend_v but_o now_o you_o eat_v your_o own_o word_n and_o flat_o contradict_v what_o there_o you_o have_v grant_v for_o now_o you_o say_v such_o offender_n as_o be_v punishable_a by_o the_o civil_a magisttate_n according_a to_o the_o act_n that_o inflict_v civil_a punishment_n be_v not_o censurable_a at_o all_o by_o the_o church_n lawful_a pastor_n nor_o by_o we_o since_o we_o have_v refuse_v to_o comply_v with_o your_o proposal_n for_o then_o a_o man_n may_v come_v to_o be_v punish_v twice_o for_o one_o offence_n 2._o from_o the_o justice_n and_o equity_n that_o be_v in_o so_o do_v consider_v the_o different_a nature_n of_o civil_a punishment_n and_o ecclesiastical_a censure_n the_o one_o be_v only_o corporal_a or_o respect_v the_o outward_a man_n the_o other_o be_v spiritual_a and_o respect_v the_o soul_n and_o therefore_o see_v man_n consist_v not_o only_o of_o body_n but_o have_v soul_n also_o such_o as_o be_v offender_n against_o the_o law_n both_o of_o god_n and_o man_n may_v and_o aught_o to_o be_v punish_v as_o with_o civil_a punishment_n appoint_v by_o the_o ciul_a magistrate_n to_o be_v inflict_v on_o the_o outward_a man_n so_o also_o with_o ecclesiastical_a censure_n appoint_v by_o jesus_n christ_n to_o be_v inflict_v on_o the_o soul_n in_o case_n of_o impenitency_n 3._o this_o also_o further_o appear_v by_o the_o necessity_n and_o usefullness_n that_o there_o may_v be_v of_o this_o double_a punishment_n the_o magistrate_n may_v have_v punish_v the_o offendor_n in_o his_o purse_n or_o body_n and_o yet_o he_o continue_v in_o a_o insensible_a and_o impenitent_a state_n in_o which_o respect_n
be_v thus_o refer_v but_o you_o have_v only_o oppose_v our_o rule_n by_o lay_v down_o a_o contrary_a assertion_n without_o any_o reason_n do_v now_o make_v your_o inference_n that_o then_o your_o note_n of_o attention_n as_o you_o say_v we_o call_v it_o stand_v good_a mark_v man_n of_o contempt_n knowledge_n and_o blameless_a life_n must_v be_v warn_v before_o all_o to_o reform_v but_o all_o candid_a reader_n by_o what_o have_v be_v say_v will_v see_v this_o be_v a_o force_a and_o uncharitable_a construction_n put_v upon_o we_o by_o yourselves_o only_o to_o render_v we_o odious_a and_o yet_o still_o after_o we_o have_v in_o our_o answer_n declare_v ourselves_o to_o the_o contrary_a by_o you_o impute_v to_o we_o without_o and_o against_o reason_n and_o of_o which_o however_o you_o may_v judge_v yourselves_o we_o think_v other_o will_v count_v it_o to_o proceed_v from_o too_o much_o will_n and_o pertinacy_n but_o here_o you_o have_v a_o profound_a ground_n of_o quarrel_v with_o we_o for_o that_o we_o distinguish_v not_o betwixt_o mark_v and_o hark_v hark_v as_o you_o say_v be_v a_o note_n of_o attention_n proper_o mark_v rather_o a_o note_n of_o observation_n as_o if_o the_o attention_n and_o observation_n of_o the_o mind_n be_v two_o different_a thing_n or_o as_o if_o schoolboy_n who_o be_v never_o blame_v by_o their_o learned_a master_n for_o calling_n en_fw-fr &_o ecce_fw-la note_n of_o attention_n will_v not_o be_v ready_a hereupon_o to_o tell_v you_o that_o according_a to_o your_o learned_a distinction_n betwixt_o mareke_v and_o hark_v these_o must_v not_o be_v note_n of_o attention_n but_o observation_n proper_o because_o they_o be_v render_v behold_v but_o you_o till_o we_o this_o be_v but_o by_o the_o way_n though_o all_o serious_a person_n will_v see_v you_o be_v here_o out_o of_o the_o way_n in_o be_v so_o light_a in_o a_o serious_a business_n and_o now_o you_o return_v to_o the_o relative_n they_n and_o to_o who_o it_o refer_v in_o our_o construction_n that_o be_v to_o those_o that_o forsake_v the_o public_a assembly_n of_o saint_n and_o turn_v their_o back_n on_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n in_o the_o second_o order_n mention_v and_o to_o the_o scandalous_a person_n mention_v in_o the_o three_o to_o these_o and_o none_o but_o these_o our_o censure_n extend_v and_o this_o we_o say_v still_o neither_o have_v you_o urge_v any_o thing_n that_o can_v have_v any_o colour_n of_o make_v good_a against_o we_o to_o the_o contrary_a you_o have_v hitherto_o not_o argue_v but_o only_o without_o reason_n lay_v down_o your_o opposite_a assertion_n the_o groundlessness_n whereof_o have_v be_v sufficient_o discover_v by_o what_o have_v be_v say_v 2._o but_o perhaps_o you_o will_v be_v think_v to_o perform_v this_o in_o the_o next_o when_o you_o further_o represent_v we_o to_o say_v that_o such_o as_o the_o minister_n find_v know_v and_o blameless_a in_o life_n shall_v not_o be_v debar_v the_o sacrament_n though_o they_o present_v not_o themselves_o to_o the_o eldership_n and_o that_o this_o we_o say_v because_o shame_n will_v not_o suffer_v we_o to_o affirm_v the_o contrary_a and_o then_o do_v ask_v we_o but_o where_o be_v our_o practice_n all_o the_o while_n or_o how_o observe_v we_o the_o rule_n we_o walk_v by_o lay_v down_o as_o we_o have_v tell_v you_o in_o the_o form_n of_o church_n government_n but_o for_o answer_v here_o we_o say_v 1._o that_o you_o have_v lose_v your_o question_n which_o be_v not_o whether_o such_o as_o the_o minister_n find_v know_v and_o blameless_a in_o life_n shall_v be_v debar_v of_o the_o sacrament_n though_o they_o present_v not_o themselves_o to_o the_o eldership_n but_o whether_o the_o relative_n they_n in_o the_o five_o order_n refer_v not_o to_o these_o and_o which_o be_v the_o question_n yourselves_o have_v propound_v to_o be_v discuss_v and_o so_o therefore_o whether_o those_o who_o the_o minister_n have_v catechize_v and_o exhort_v to_o present_v themselves_o to_o the_o eldership_n ought_v not_o to_o have_v their_o name_n publish_v and_o they_o warn_v before_o all_o to_o reform_v if_o they_o hearken_v not_o to_o the_o exhortation_n where_o we_o must_v deny_v that_o ever_o any_o such_o a_o thing_n be_v hold_v forth_o by_o we_o in_o any_o of_o the_o order_n we_o publish_v however_o it_o be_v that_o which_o be_v by_o you_o impute_v to_o we_o but_o have_v not_o prove_v though_o to_o make_v the_o matter_n somewhat_o more_o colourable_a you_o alter_v the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n nor_o can_v any_o such_o a_o thing_n be_v make_v out_o against_o we_o either_o from_o our_o practice_n or_o the_o rule_n we_o walk_v by_o and_o further_o we_o say_v that_o if_o ever_o we_o have_v practise_v any_o such_o a_o thing_n or_o have_v profess_v to_o walk_v by_o any_o such_o a_o rule_n there_o have_v be_v reason_n why_o we_o shall_v have_v be_v ashamed_a 2._o but_o we_o must_v further_o add_v what_o we_o have_v former_o assert_v that_o we_o do_v not_o refuse_v to_o admit_v any_o to_o the_o sacrament_n mere_o upon_o this_o ground_n because_o they_o present_v not_o themselves_o to_o the_o eldership_n if_o they_o be_v such_o as_o be_v of_o competent_a knowledge_n and_o blameless_a life_n the_o eldership_n condescend_v as_o have_v be_v say_v to_o admit_v upon_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o minister_n and_o one_o elder_a or_o of_o two_o minister_n such_o as_o have_v be_v by_o they_o examine_v and_o approve_v neither_o be_v this_o practice_n repugnant_a to_o any_o rule_n lay_v down_o in_o the_o form_n of_o church_n government_n for_o however_o it_o give_v a_o power_n to_o the_o eldership_n to_o inquire_v into_o the_o spiritual_a estate_n of_o any_o member_n as_o they_o shall_v see_v occasion_n yet_o it_o do_v not_o strict_o oblige_v they_o to_o debar_v or_o reject_v every_o one_o that_o present_v not_o themselves_o before_o they_o although_o if_o it_o be_v out_o of_o mere_a obstinacy_n of_o spirit_n that_o they_o refuse_v and_o a_o desire_n to_o overturn_v the_o government_n by_o their_o opposition_n there_o be_v the_o great_a reason_n why_o minister_n and_o elder_n be_v in_o such_o case_n to_o beware_v as_o it_o be_v requisite_a for_o the_o secure_n of_o the_o elderships_n just_a power_n and_o to_o prevent_v the_o danger_n and_o irregularity_n of_o the_o exercise_n of_o solitary_a jurisdiction_n that_o none_o be_v admit_v but_o by_o the_o juridical_a act_n of_o the_o eldership_n and_o which_o as_o it_o be_v that_o which_o we_o practice_n so_o it_o be_v that_o power_n which_o be_v grant_v to_o the_o eldership_n by_o the_o ordinance_n appoint_v the_o form_n of_o church_n government_n the_o examination_n and_o judgement_n of_o such_o person_n as_o shall_v for_o their_o ignorance_n not_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n be_v by_o that_o ordinance_n to_o be_v in_o the_o power_n not_o of_o any_o one_o minister_n but_o of_o the_o eldership_n of_o every_o congregation_n and_o which_o as_o it_o justify_v as_o we_o tell_v you_o what_o be_v in_o that_o kind_n practise_v by_o the_o several_a eldership_n so_o it_o also_o show_v what_o ground_n we_o have_v for_o that_o which_o be_v mention_v in_o our_o paper_n touch_v both_o what_o be_v therein_o appoint_v to_o the_o minister_n about_o catechise_n family_n and_o also_o concern_v the_o minister_n exhort_v such_o as_o in_o the_o several_a family_n he_o shall_v find_v to_o be_v of_o competent_a knowledge_n and_o know_v to_o be_v of_o blameless_a life_n that_o they_o shall_v present_v themselves_o to_o the_o eldership_n and_o therefore_o that_o we_o may_v answer_v to_o what_o you_o here_o urge_v we_o with_o out_o of_o the_o ordinance_n we_o say_v it_o be_v one_o thing_n not_o to_o admit_v any_o to_o the_o sacrament_n but_o by_o the_o juridical_a act_n of_o the_o eldership_n and_o another_o thing_n to_o say_v that_o none_o be_v to_o be_v admit_v except_o they_o present_v themselves_o before_o the_o eldership_n the_o power_n mention_v in_o the_o former_a be_v grant_v by_o the_o ordinance_n unto_o the_o eldership_n and_o be_v that_o which_o by_o we_o be_v constant_o practise_v in_o the_o latter_a there_o be_v a_o liberty_n to_o do_v as_o the_o eldership_n shall_v see_v occasion_n and_o which_o be_v in_o several_a case_n with_o we_o dispense_v with_o where_o the_o eldership_n be_v otherwise_o satisfy_v touch_v the_o fitness_n of_o the_o person_n that_o be_v to_o be_v by_o they_o admit_v and_o yet_o notwithstanding_o this_o it_o be_v not_o the_o question_n as_o we_o have_v already_o say_v that_o be_v now_o discuss_v betwixt_o you_o and_o we_o whether_o the_o know_a and_o blameless_a be_v to_o be_v keep_v off_o from_o the_o sacrament_n by_o any_o order_n of_o we_o except_o they_o shall_v present_v themselves_o to_o the_o eldership_n and_o hereupon_o your_o urge_v we_o with_o the_o ordinance_n for_o