discreet and humble use of Ministers gifts even in publick the better to fit excite their own and the peoples affections to the present occasions But that any mens private single Abilities should quite justle out the publick forms of prayer composed by the joynt Abilities and gifts of Godly learned Governours of the Church this is that we cannot allow of Neither do we conceive the spirit of prayer to consist so much in utterance of words which is but a gift of edification as in stirring up the Graces of faith and humility and other gifts of sanctification wherein the very life and soul of prayer consisteth And certianly he that saith that short comprehensive prayer justly called The Lords prayer because he framed it for his Disciples with an understanding devout and faithfull heart prayes very spiritually very acceptably and powerfully Concerning this prayer I censure it as too yieldingly spoken which is said in the first Letter as if the words might be laid aside and omitted the sense being kept When as in my opinion it is an honour to our Saviour and a good mark of his humble and faithful followers to keep not the sense onely but the very form of words which he hath commended Nor can I see any reason why so many in these times do omit the form as if that omission were now become a distinctive character whereby the most godly preachers and most Reformed Christians might be known But enough of this 3. As to the Ordination and power of Ministers that Text Tit. 1. 5. insisted on in the Dispute adde Acts 14. 23. plainly shews the Apostolical practice of Ordaining Elders in every Church and in succeeding Ages a succession of Christs Ministers was preserved by the like Ordination as Ecclesiastical Records do abundantly witness That Churches parochial should be filled with those that set up a new or no form of worship and minister holy things before they have received holy Orders this I think was never heard of in our land before these our times and what the consequence will be we have great cause to fear even the overthrow of all Religion and the introducing of Atheism and prophaness among our people Those words in the late Mournfull Complaint presented to some Parliament men are to the purpose You have placed in many of our Churches and given the Tithes and other profits belonging to the cure of souls to men that refuse to take any such charge upon them and who are so far from having the affections or performing the duties of faithful Pastors to us that they do professedly disown any such relation and consequently all the duties thereunto belonging Thence they neither Baptise nor Catechise our children nor do they administer the Lords Supper in our Congregations our sick and feeble persons they visite not nor own it as a duty incumbent on them to take care for our souls These Ministers I conceive being not Ordained believe their ministerial power to reach onely to those select persons that are in Covenant with them and submit to their Church-way as if the said power were received from the persons that consent thereunto Thus have we Ministers that are Preachers to thousands and Ministers as themselves say to some few gathered out of the multitude the rest of the multitude in the mean time remaining according to their opinion almost in the quality of meer Heathens and Infidels and if they be not such this seemeth a way â—o make them so For being not owned as Brethren by the gathered Church and having good reasons not to come into their communion they are in many places destitute of divine ordinances without publick Prayers Sermons Sacraments and in a ready way to loose Religion altogether But why do they not come into the Preachers placed among them by Authority Because they believe those Preachers however settled by the civil power have not received the sacred Office by lawful Ordination For we may easily distinguish between the Office and the place wherein the Office is exercised Preachers and Ministers are placed and confirmed in their places by the Magistrate or Civil power but they receive their ministerial Office or spiritual function by lawful Ordination and laying on of the hands of the Presbytery This is called the Power of Order derived not from the Magistrate or Prince not from the people they cannâ—t give what they have not but from Bishops and Presbyters who also have received it from their Predecessors The Ministers Servants Officers and Embassadors of Christ must have their Authority and Commission from Christ either immediately as the Apostles had or mediately by the hands of Elder Ministers as the lawful Ministers of our time have nor may any take this honour unto himself but he that is thus called of God The people indeed may be said to Call that is to invite and intreate Ministers to come unto them but their Calling or Function is from God The Lord of the harvest sends in the laborers the great Shepheard setteth Pastors over his flock the Master of the Family appointeth Stewards for his houshould to dispence unto them the Mysteries of God 4. For the administration of the holy Sacrament that such as have not received the power before mentioned by lawful Ordination do not administer the Sacrament to all we will not blame them because we conceive they have not power of ministring to any one but that they condemn the lawful Ministers for ministring unto the people of their Parishes the sacred things which cannot rightly be denied them this we may complain of In the above cited Mournful Complaint among many other sad passages we finde these words You permit us not to celebrate the memory of our dying Saviour in the Sacrament of his lost Supper and so deprive our souls of that heavenly food that our dear Lord hath with so much cost provided for us We would after many sad violations renew our Covenant with Christ and engage our souls more firmly to him but you will not permit us You complain of the loosenesse of our spirits whilest you withhold the bonds that should knit us faster unto Christ you complain of our weaknesse in resisting corruptions whilest you withhold the food whereby we should be strengthened you complain of seism strife and division whilest by you the sacred pledge of Vnion is detained from us Surely I had râ—ther the Church-gatherers should blame the Minister for his indulgence to the people than that the people should have cause in this manner to complain of his severity but the golden mean is to be inquired for And this is discovered in the ensuing Papers where the Author endeavours on the one side to avoid the preciseness of some that admit to the holy Table onely some few persons chosen out of many hundreds and the loosnesse of some on the other side who admit hundreds and exclude not some few namely such as are ignorant and scandalous such he would have noted kept back and
Scripture shew us any such office bring forth your proofe of it B. 'T is my part to answer your proofs Now you put on the Respondent the part of an Opponent Let them that have been bred in the Schools judge whether you do like a fair Disputant H. Our dispute is not an University Dispute but for the clearing of the truth to some Godly People B. Do you think the University Disputations which are the best in the world are not for the clearing of the Truth But what saith Mr. Tr. shall I propose my Argument to prove Diocesan Bishops by the Scripture Tr. You have liberty to propose your Argument and shew in what part of Scripture you can find the Office of any Diocesan Bishop B. I allege principally the Epistles of S. Paul to Timothy and Titus and particularly Tit. 1. 5. For this cause left I thee in Creet that thou shouldst set in order the things that are wanting and ordaine Elders in every City as I have appointed thee Out of which Text I will prove that Titus was a Bishop and Creet his Diocese and therefore here we have found the Diocesian Bishop But before I proceed let me aske you Gentlemen do you not put me upon this to ensnare me Do you mean no harm to me Tr. No I assure you wherefore in Gods Name speak freely B. I humbly thank you but first let me openly declare before all this Assembly that I have no mind to oppose any act of State nor will I meddle at all with the Lands and Lordships of Bishops only I plead for the Order and Function of Bishops I plead for the primitive Apostolicall Bishop and no other And that this Text is for me thus I prove He that hath a power to ordaine Elders and set things in order in the Church is a Bishop But Titus hath a power to ordaine Elders and to set things in order in a Church Therefore Titus is a Bishop H. But you must prove him to be a Diocesan Bishop B. So I do Creet was his Diocese the whole Iland was committed to his Goverment Diocese my friends is a Greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to order and administer the affaires of Gods House signifying the territory or circuit of a Bishop So Creet may be well called the Diocese of Bishop Titus having under his inspection as t is plaine the Elders of the Cities there W. The Cities were not under Titus his Goverment he was not a Ruler of the Iland B. He was Ruler of all the Christians I mean onely them through all the Cities and Country Tr. But Titus was an Evangelist Therefore no Bishop B. I deny the Consequence He was an Evangelist while he went about Preaching and Planting the Gospell And he was the Bishop of Creet when he was fixed there by Paul to Ordaine Elders and put in order the things that were wanting H. We find Titus in other places beside Creet and Bishops of those times were not non-residents Therefore he was not Bishop of Creet B. Bishops may lawfully be and were antiently non-resident for some time to wit while they attend the business of Religion abroad and procured the greater good of the Church In which time of their absence their places are supplyed at home by their Deputies Tr. But Sir I pray consider Titus was an extraordinary Governor and therefore no Diocesan Bishop And you dispute fallaciously unless you put in the word Ordinary B. I say he was a Diocesan Bishop or if you will rather an Archbishop For I conceive the Elders of every City to have been Bishops and Overseers of severall Ministers and Congregations therefore he was an ordinary Governour Thus I argue He that ordaines Elders and orders the things in the Churches is an Ordinary But Titus ordaines Elders and orders things in the Churches Therefore Titus is an Ordinary Tr. But I mean he was called to that office in an extraordinary manner B. No neither He was called in the same manner as Timothy and others by Imposition of the Presbytery Therefore He was called in an Ordinary manner Col. A. Timothy was called saith Paul in another place by the laying on of his hands B. Noble Sir you say very true and the places are easily reconciled thus Divers Elders laid hands on Timothy among whom S. Paul probably was chief H. And was Paul too a Diocesan Bishop B. The Apostles common Diocese was the whole world which by agreement they divided among them and S. Paul was especially the Apostle of the Gentiles But in the Apostles I grant some things are extraordinary Tr. Pray make it out cleerely that Titus his case is not extraordinary otherwise you dispute fallaciously B. Truth needs no sophistry Thus I make it out The office that is to continue in the Church and to be succeeded in through following ages is no extraordinary office But this office of Titus is such Therefore c. H. What is it to continue to the worlds end B. Yes to the worlds end For it is Christs Promise I am with you alway even to the end of the world Mat. ult ult What say you to my argument Ordination and Jurisdiction are Offices or Powers needfull to the Church in all Ages This Office of Power or Titus was Ordination and Jurisdiction Therefore this Office of Titus is needfull to the Church in all Ages and therefore no extraordinary Office And my Brethren I would have you to know we are able to shew out of the best Records and Monuments of the Antient Church that there was a succession to the Apostolicall Bishops in these parts of their Office And the Catalogues of succeeding Bishops in severall Apostolicall Sees are yet extant And the Fathers and Councills and Ecclesiasticall Histories come in here with undeniable evidence that Diocesan Bishops are successors of the Apostles in the Government of Churches H. See godly Brethren the subtilty of this man He will not contain himself within the Holy Scripture but tells us of Fathers and Ecclesiasticall Stories and human Authorities B. Who succeeded in the government of Churches after the Apostles we must learn out of the writings of the next Ages And I tell you not only Fathers and Church-story but all other good learning is requisite in a compleat Divine Mark this you bold unlearned new-speakers and expounders of Scripture Mark it and remember it well And for the question of Church-government especially it is impossible to find a better way to understand the Scripture than by the practice of the primitive times of the Christian Church H. Expound Scripture by the practice of the primitive Church Do ye heare him brethren as if Scripture needed the help of the Church We thought we should finde him enclining to Popery B. I detest all Popery charge me not so ignorantly Upon my life I will make it good by the judgment of the most learned and sound Protestants that the practice of the primitive Church is a great light to
you conceive by the Church B. I am very inclinable to Saint Chrysostome's interpretation who by the Church understandands the Elders and Rulers of the Church H. The word Church is no where so taken in all the Scripture and therefore it cannot be so taken here shew us any place B. It doth not follow for some word may possibly signify that in one place which it signifies no where else and again there may be other places though I cannot readily shew them I will consider of it H. No I doe assure you t is never so used and therefore I hope you will yeeld to the Word that we may go on with one consent in the work of God B. God grant it if it be the Work of God but you have not cleered it yet I cannot yield to your sense for this Reason That sense of Scripture concerning Church-government which was never received by the Doctors of the Antient Church is not the true sense of Scripture But your sense of the place was never received c. H. Still still he declines Scripture and would lead us to human Ordinances B. As for human Ordinances I can embrace them so far as they are not opposite to Scripture but now we are upon the Interpretation of Scripture I must profess I have been ever bred in the Church that requires all her Ministers to receive the Scripture as interpreted by the Antient Fathers and to propose nothing to the people contrary to what was derived out of the Scripture by them I am not ashamed of my Mother the Church of England nor by Gods grace ever shall I. And I doe heartily warn all that hear me to take heed as they tender their Soules of departing rashly from the Communion of of the said Church W. I thought where we should have you B. You have me where I have ever been and where I mean to abide till I am convinced I am not unwilling to learn of any one And pray Mr. W. tell me whether you hold not a Synod of chosen men gathered out of your Churches to have authority over them all W. No authority at all such a Synod may be of use for advice and counsell not for goverment or for the exercise of any jurisdiction B. Then as I conceive your modell is very imperfect and me thinks your Ministers in their severall Congregations look like so many little Popes For the Pope is the Great Independent and will allow of no Appeal from him no more will you H. Pray Mr. B. quiet the People B. I beseech you good people I beseech you attend with silence and patience Tr. Where presently followes Execution there can be no appeal But after the sentence of the Congregation presently followes execution If he hear not the Church let him c. Therefore from the sentence of the Congregation can be no appeal B. Well argued I repeat Where presently c. I answer first to the major or first proposition There may be an appeal after execution of the sentence of the Congregation In your own way may not the wronged person appeal from you to your selves In the Presbyterian you know there lyes an appeal to the Classis but that I take not on me to maintain I know no power to excommunicate but Episcopall Tr. Then it seems by you the Bishop is the Church and the sole judge of the Congregations B. Not so neither Hear my Answer I pray and do not you ignorant fellowes laugh at that you do not understand The Bishop is considered either Sole or alone or as he sits in Cathedra crowned with Presbyters In this later sense I humbly conceive the Bishop is or ought to be Governour of the Congregations within his Diocese And such Bishops we can shew innumerable in the ancient Records of the Catholique Church I am very sorry these Gentlemen are so ill read in good Books of our own English Divines as to deny a truth shining so bright upon them Mr. Tr. have you not seen the learned Thorndike of the primitive Government c Tr. We cleave to the Scripture and call you to the foresaid text Can you shew one place where Church is taken for the Bishop and his Presbyters B. What if I cannot The Authority of the antient Fathers is sufficient for the present to commend my interpretation to such as reverence Antiquity But because I would gladly please you I will offer another sense of the words in question which will come neer to you but is not fully yours That is after the first admonition by one and the second before two or three it is the mind of Christ that a greater number should be made acquainted with the business tell it to the Many for the shaming of the offendor as the Apostle somewhere speaks the words may the more probably be taken in this sense because as yet the Disciples were not setled under a Church-government and so there remaining no more to be done after this shaming of the offendor before a good number of Fellow-Christians i. e. the Church he was to be henceforth till his amendment accounted as a heathen and might be prosecuted for any offence before the heathen Tribunalls Which prosecution was not lawfull against those that would hear the Church See 1 Cor. 6. But this will do you no pleasure unless that which followes in the next verse belong unto the Congregation too but that cannot be if Christ spake the words to his Apostles and gave the Keys and Power of Binding and Loosing to them and their successors as I believe he did Consider of it See the learned Dr. Hammond of binding and loosing To. Give me leave to add somewhat here in confirmation of what was last said Scripture you know gives light to Scripture Christ elswhere saith to Peter that he would give the Keys to him Matth. 16. 19. And John 20. 21 21 23. he speaketh to his Disciples and thus enstateth them in that power Then said Jesus to them again Peace be unto you as my Father hath sent me even so send I you And when he had said this he breathed on them and said unto them Receive yee the holy Ghost whosoever sins yee remit they are remitted unto them and whosoever sins ye retain they are retained these are the solemn words of Ordination W. The words are spoken to Peter and to the Disciples as they were Christian professors and so they do belong to our people not as they were appointed by Christ to be Governours of his Church To. The words signify a power committed to them which they used as Governours 't is plain and which they left to the Bishops their Successours Tr. The Apostles had no successors being gifted with a miraculous power B. The Apostles are to be considered in two respects either as planters of the Churches and to that purpose endued with a miraculous power to make way for and to give confirmation to the Gospel or else as Governours of the Churches
invested with the ordinary lasting power of ordaining Elders of binding and loosing and of setting things in order herein who were their Successors you may see if you will inform your selves in the book of binding and loosing and in the Latin dissertations against Blondellus Pray take it not ill that we often assert this it is of such concernence that with this truth the Ministers of England must either stand or fall We speak not for Bishops to be Lords of Lands but Fathers of the Church You must all mark that Tr. The differonce 'twixt us appears plainly you are for Bishops which you call the Primitive Apostolical Bishops and in them you place the power which Christ hath left to his Church We are for the Bodies of Congregations which we say are under no superiors neither Bishops nor Presbyters but absolute and independent in respect of man and immediatly under Jesus Christ Col. A. Bishops and Presbyters are all one in the New Testament namely Acts 20. 17. Paul sent to Ephesus and called the Elders of the Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and v. 28. the holy Ghost hath made you overseers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Therefore Presbyters and Bishops are all one P. Noble Sir I answer Bishops in the new Testament are also called Presbyters but they are more than those we now call Presbyters who are to be ordained and governed by the Bishops Any Presbyter may be called Bishop or Overseer of his own Parish but those we eminently stile Bishops now who are Bishops or Overseers and Rulers of those Parish Bishops or Presbyters The Presbyters St. Paul sent for from Ephesus were properly Bishops Tr. No Hear my Argument The Church of Ephesus was but one Congregation I prove it out of Eph. 2. the two last verses In whom Jesus Christ all the building fitly framed together c. A building fitly framed together is but one Congregation But the Church of Ephesus was a building fitly framed together Therefore c. B. To the Major Not only one single Congregation but many united under one Bishop may be so called And that Ephesus was not a single Independent Congregation but a Metropolitical Church you may learn of the most Reverend Primate Dr. Usher a man I think of great Authority among you also as among all Scholars most justly I refer you to his Geographical Tract of the Asian Diocese Tr. Return to the Text Mat. 18. v. 19. I shall prove it undeniably that a single Church hath an independent power But first will you grant me that two or three may be taken for a small Congregation B. Yes I desire to grant you all I can without injury to the Truth Tr. Then thus I argue Where is the Duty and the Blessing there is the Power But in a small Congregation where two or three c. is both the duty and the Blessing Therefore there is also the Power namely of Excommunication B. Where is the duty c. You leave out a very necessary word Independent For supposing that a power of Excommunication were in a particular Congregation I cannot grant it is there independently but there may be an Appeal But did you ever hear of an Indepent Church of two or three Tr. Yes there may be a Church of so few and that independent B. A private Church I grant not a publick enabled with power of Excommunication a power supreme Lo you here is Popery in a little volume an independent absolute supreme Church made up of two or three H. Did you not grant to Mr. Tr. that two or three may be taken for any small number now you recall your words You know if there be twenty in a company we sometimes say there be two or three B. No indeed that 's too far wide Let the people judge of this whether any will say there be two or three if there be twenty persons met in a room Two or three that is twenty silence I pray But Sir the words of Christ are verified if there be but barely two And therefore I may justly think it too small a number to make the Church mentioned v 17. It cannot be for this reason The Church in the 17. v. is of more authority and more in number than the two or three mentioned in the second admonition v. 16. But two or three v. 19 20. are not of more authority nor more in number than the two or three mentioned v. 16. Therefore the two or three v. 19 20. are not the Church mentioned v. 17. Answer this and you shall hold your Supremacy to the worlds end for me H. You hold an Appeal from the Church to the Civil Power which is plain Erastianism B. Erastianisme I shall make it appear to be Christianisme But what was Erastus pray H. I came not here to be Catechized by you B. Erastus was one that denied the power of Excommunication in the Church which I do not but desire it may come into practice upon true Rules If you would know Erastus see the Book of Binding and loosing at large And noble Sir you that are a Civil Magistrate let me call you to witness that I stand here an Advocate truly to plead for the Supreme authority of this Land and I undertake to shew that the Highest powers in the Commonwealth have also the Highest Rule of the Church and may receive Appeals from any Christians that complain of wrong in any Congregation whatsoever Col. A. The Highest Powers haply doubt of that Authority and forbear to execute any such till they be more fully satisfied B. Were I worthy I would request them to know their power and use it for the restitution of Primitive Episcopacy They doubt you say but Sir these men flatly deny that authority of the Civil Magistrate in matters of Religion H. And how I pray do you prove it B. Let every soul be subject to the Higher Powers Every man saith St. Chrysostome whether Lay or Clergy Col. A. There is no such distinction of Lay and Clergy in the Scripture All the Lords people are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 his Portion B. Sir you say most true that All the Lords people are his Portion that is as selected and called out of the World but his Ministers are more peculiarly his as called from among his People and admitted nearer to him being separated for the Ministration of Holy things But however all sorts of men I say whether Ministers or others must be subject to the Highest powers Tr. Yea in Civil things they must be subject not in Ecclesiastical The Powers are distinct B. They are distinct in their Objects or Matters about which they are exercised they are united in the same Subjects or Persons that are supreme in all causes both Eccleclesiasticall and Civill W. You were wont to pray for the King in that stile B. Yes when the King was and now they that have the Kingly power may withall assume the same title if they please W. By no means