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A30904 Truth cleared of calumnies wherein a book intituled, A dialogue betwixt a Quaker and a stable Christian (printed at Aberdeen, and upon good ground judged to be writ by William Mitchell ...) is examined, and the disingenuity of the author, in his representing the Quakers is discovered : here is also their case truly stated, cleared, demonstrated, and the objections of their opposers answered according to truth, Scripture, and right reason / by Robert Barclay. Barclay, Robert, 1648-1690. 1670 (1670) Wing B738; ESTC R22049 63,242 72

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For notwithstanding the words of the Quaker are of thy owne framing and that they lye patent before thee yet thou hast not had so much honesty in thy answer as to subsume them aright The Quaker sayes I use not flattering titles and give thee not heathenish salutations and bowings least I should sin and be found an Idolater in answer to which thou beginnest with a false subsumption saying thou wonderest that he should call salutations and bowings heathenish and Idolatrous Indeed it is no strange thing that thou and others misrepresent us and belye us in repeating our words at a distance when in this manner of writing thou canst not truly repeat those words which thou placest for ours when they be just written before thee Is it not one thing to say that Salutations that are heathenish or heathenish salutations cannot be used without sin and idolatrie and another thing to say that salutations and bowings are heathenish and idolatrous Who is so blind as not to see here a vast difference As to the first who dares deny it to be a truth that vvill offer to call himselfe a Christian to vvit that salutations and bovvings that are heathenish cannot be used vvithout idolatrie and sin But as to the other that Salutations and bovvings are heathenish and idolatrous being taken in generall vvas never said nor judged by the Quakers and therefore to charge them vvith it is utterly false and a lye for such salutations as Christ commands and the Apostles practised the Quakers dearly ovvne and frequently use and find in them great refreshment becaus there through the life flovves and is communicated from one vessell to another but such salutations thou art ignorant of and of the life that is there through communicated vvhich bears testimonie against all that is heathenish and idolatrous and leads out of it and therefore in thy dark mind vvouldst from thence plead for the customary salutations of the heathen as appears by the proofs thou bringest vvherein thy folly is very much manifested Christ sayest thou commanded his disciples vvhen they entred into a house to salute it hee did so and what more And if the house be vvorthy their peace shall be upon it to vvit the peace through the salutation intimated or offered becaus they brought to that house the tender of the Gospell and glad tydings vvhich vvas a good salutation but vvhat vvouldst thou inferr from that that vve ought to doe of our hats one to another a thing vvhich they never did by vvhose example thou vvouldst presse us to doe it and it is knowne that it is a thing unusuall in that part of the world to this day That other proof alledged from Paul saluting the Churches makes as litle if not far lesse to the purpose Paul in his Epistles who was at a great distance vvisheth grace and peace to the Churches from God the Father and the Lord Iesus Christ Ergo wee ought to take of our hats Can there be any thing more ridiculous is this the great esteeme yee put upon the scriptures to take the salutations of the blessed Apostle Paul signified by the motions of the Holy Spirit vvhich vvas the very blessing of Paul to the Churches or rather of the Spirit through him for to prove your doing off hats one of the corrupt customs of this vvorld Is not this to make a mock of the Scripturs and a stretching them to plead for that against vvhich is the naturall tendencie of their testimonie Next thou givest us Abrahams practise but every practise of Abraham is not a rule to us nor to you either the like may be said of that of Moses Though Moses did obeisance to his father in law that makes nothing against us far lesse his kissing of him and asking him of his vvelfare both vvhich things the Quakers deny not Thou acknovv ledgest that religious vvorship given to the Creature is idolatrie What is Religious Worship but that vvhich is given to God and is not the bovving of the body and uncovering of the head the signification of your Worship to God And if yee give the same to the Creature also where is the difference for in the external signification it is not distinguished unles it be said to be the intention which if it be wee shall have the Papists pleading the same for their adoration of images and the relicts of the saints And truly your being found in these things gives them advantage in that matter That courtesie and Christianity are not repugnant vvee deny not and therefore for Christians to be Courteous one to another is very fit vvhich indeed that the Apostle commands wee acknowledge But that Courtesie consists in taking off hats and bovving to one another that rests for thee to prove In the next place to prove the indifference of using the plurall number instead of the singular to one person thou sayest thou art very confident the Kingdome of God consists not in vvords so am I too yet I strange thou shouldst say so considering thy principles for vvhat is all your preaching but words yea vvhat is the Scripture it selfe I meane that vvhich yee have of it to vvit the letter but words And seing the very Gospell according to you is but a company of words being a declaration of vvhat past many hundred years agoe hovv has thy zeale here to oppose the Quakers made thee forget thy selfe in this matter Thou sayest that to vvhich the singular number is agreeable the plurall may be applyed to without making a lye The proofs alleged for that be Matth. 23. 37. Luk. 22. 31. 3 Epistle of Iohn vers 13 evince nothing in this matter for the Contexts being rightly considered vvill clearly make out that the vvords are not applyed to one single person only exclusively of others and that of Luke is to a flock comprehending the disciples to vvhom hee vvas speaking just before but there is no confounding of the number vvhere one single person is only spoken to and that vvithout understanding of any more And though indeed it vvere good that the difference vvere not greater yet the differences in these things evidence that there be differences in greater matters And in respect that yee are estranged from the principle that leads out of corruption in all things therefor yee cannot see the vveight that is in these things vvhich is more then yee are avvare of Pag. 3. Thou seem●t to take great advantage of these words Heretofore I walked according to my light and the same I doe still and while in the integritie of my heart I walked in the way thou art now in I dare not say but God countenanced me in it Here thou makest a great stirr as if thou hadst brought the Quaker to a great Dilemma But to passe by thy examining of the weak objection which thou makest in the Quakers behalfe which I beleive was never alledged by any of them unto thee as that wherwith they either only or cheifly defend