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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A39566	Christianismus redivivus Christndom both un-christ'ned and new-christ'ned, or, that good old way of dipping and in-churching of men and women after faith and repentance professed, commonly (but not properly) called Anabaptism, vindicated ... : in five or six several systems containing a general answer ... : not onely a publick disputation for infant baptism managed by many ministers before thousands of people against this author ... : but also Mr. Baxters Scripture proofs are proved Scriptureless ... / by Samuel Fisher ...	Fisher, Samuel, 1605-1665.; Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691.	1655 (1655)	Wing F1049; ESTC R40901	968,208	646

them that are saved and in them that perish and as for our great turn of triumphing truly over them who have trodden down the truth we are in serious expectation of that at the Return of our Captain Christ Iesus till then we must be no otherwise triumphant then as I said above but with the whole state of Christs Church militant here on earth Pre. And the unanswerable crime of deserting the truth to be charg'd upon them if they had not stood up to maintain it especially when the not doing of it had startled the strong offended the weak and confirmed those in their error which were fallen before Post. To desert the truth is an unanswerable crime indeed the sense of which I believe may be the reason not onely why some Priests are so loath to answer any thing at all as Dr. Gouge was to Dr. Chamberlain and others that shall here be nameless unto my self but also why both they and their people have so little to answer when they come seriously to be reckon'd with about it for verily as for the people now the Lord comes by the spirit and power of Elijah to restore things in the latter daies to that primitive purity which hath been of old deserted and to expostulate with them for that Baalitish worship which Iezebell the Queen hath stirred up the Kings of the earth to set up among them they are either shiftless and speechless before his messengers so that we may say of them as of that be-Baalited people that stood before the old Elijah viz. the people answered him not a word or else nothing is answered that hath any shew of sense or reason to the purpose and sometimes such a miserable mess and goodly Gallimaufrey of reasons is rendred in defence of that one Babish Babilonish way of sprinkling Infants Infonts to instance in no other the very naming of which to name no more then hath been nam'd in way of Account thereof in my own hearing is evidence enough that some men for some are not so gropably blinded as some though all too grosly that go off from truth are more then half minded because they know not well what to say therefore to say they well know not what viz are we wiser then our forefathers shall we think that so many learned Orthodox divines would practise it if it were not the truth I am sure it was a custome before we were born how shall our children come to have names if they be not Christned how can they be saved if they die unchristned they are not Christ'n creatures till they have their Christ'ndome and such like As for the Priests they have been so rubd up of late that they have been forc't to find more witnesses indeed more then the Scripture affords to stand by them at rheir Bason-Business and how eagerly they agree altogether in one Clashis is shew'd hereafter but the antient standard of all which is at hand to serve every ones turn as a Text in the pulpit and as a Testimony to the truth of their false way at every turn is that which every one hath by Roat and by Root of heart and at fingers ends more then the Root heart Right end and sense of those texts they take it out of viz. They brought little children to Christ by his permission that he should touch them and to such belongs the Kingdom of heaven Ergo Infants in infancy must be baptized the consequence of which as t is no less then this they brought sick folks unto Christ by his permission that he should touch them and to such belongs the Kingdome of heaven Ergo sick folks must be baptized in the time of their sickness so it swayes not me if it be somewhat more then that of the Papists viz. they brought an Ass for Christ to ride on Ergo Asses are blessed creatures that have a cross upon their crests ever since and as for that in special that bore him happy are hundreds of people that can every one get a leg of him And now whereas you say you feared it Oh that you did indeed fear the unanswerable crime of deserting the truth to be charg'd upon you then would you return from whence in the uniuersal deluge you are departed and stand up to maintain that faith Gospel baptism Church Order which was once delivered to the Saints but now you stand up for error and mans invention and though you seem to salve all ore so surely and to answer so handsomely that all men cannot discry you yet doth not he see all your wayes and count all your steps if therefore you are stept aside out of the way and walk in vanity upon fetches and far fecht consequences despising the cause of God when in plainness he contendeth it with you out of the mouth of babes what will you do when he riseth up when he visiteth what will you answer yea when he asks who hath required this at your hands you will be as blank before him about your Baby-sprinkling as they about their Bawble Bell-sprinkling both being but limbs of the Idol Bell that serves the bellies of the Priest-hood your non prohibition excuses one no more then the other Though therefore you still strive to startle men into a joint perseverance with you in that way which you are so disjointed about among your selves yet when Christ speaks to you in his wrath for changing his laws he will silence you yea he will startle the strongest of you who by your superstitions offend his weak little ones and instead of pulling them out as you ought to do in all your preaching places confirm those whole parishes in their errors who were fallen before you came to them Pre. Farewell Post. So you say indeed but your Reader may fare ill enough for ought you have set before him in your ensuing Tractate you feed him with a first second and third course yet all such course fare that his soul may starve that takes no other course then you here put him upon in order to the salvation of it which is no other then under a pious pretence and seeming notion of avoiding Anabaptism Heresie and Schism to keep off from ever owning Christ in his own baptism and to bid Farewel for ever to the onely way of Truth and Peace These few faults that have escaped the Press in this foregoing part the Reader is desired in order to his better understanding of the Authors meaning to correct as followeth PAge 1. line 27. read volumninous p. 15. l. 21. read indeed p. 16. l. 54. r. it p. 17. in the marginal note r. psittaco also r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 also r. conari p. 19. in the marginal note r. you who also term your selves p. 23. l. 27 28. r. not p. 21. l. 45. r. they mightly also l. 30. r. when he had been ANTI-BABISME OR THE BABISH DISPUTATION AT ASHFORD FOR BABY BAPTISM DISPROVED AND now Sirs having dispatcht my Disproof of

also what part of a man lesse or greater yea if it be but the tip of the finger that he instances in as an overt dipping is truly to be dipped must not be dipped so overly as that it is not dipped underly I mean put truly under water for else it is not properly a dipping of that part but I would I could hear some of those Criticks for he mentions not one of them that distinguish him so besides the way of God by their fair false glosses upon the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 making 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 only to signify that we stand for i. e. a total overwhelming and baptizing no more then some dribling kind of darting some part of the subject under water for verily they are but crackt braind Criticks to me if the Lexicons be at all to be heeded for howbeit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth signify the same that we saie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies viz. dipping or being under water and it may be more deeply then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for that is as it were Imum petere to go down to the very bottom yet neither doth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signify any lesse then we say and that primarily also viz. at least to put under and overwhelm with water which is enough for us or else it would never be rendred by obruo ond submergo which words if they do not as truly expresse as total a covering with water as subeo ingredior which are the senses by which 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is rendred then I have as much sense in my heel as my head but if those Criticks think this no right rendition let them do the world that right as to take upon them to correct those Errata's in the Lexicons that are extant and to turn Lexicographers themselves The third exception of Mr. Baxter against what hath been before said in proof of dippping is this viz. The thing signifyed is set forth by the phrase of washing on sprinkling and the sign need not exceed the thing signifyed And in this fashion argue both Mr. Blake and Mr. Cook especially out of whose larger drivings home of this head a man that hath but half an eye may see Mr. Baxter borrowed most of that little he saies in exception against what we say for dipping abridging two or three pages of Mr. Cook viz. page 19 20 21. into these two or three lines of his and coting the same Scriptures and no other and that in the self same order and no other then Mr. Cooke doth viz. the 1 Cor. 6.11 Tit. 3.5 Heb. 10.22 Isa. 4.4.3 Ioel 2.28 Ezek. 36.26 1 Pet. 1.2 Heb. 12.24 To which I say it is true some but not all the things signified nor yet that which is most immediately signified and therefore mainly to be resembled are set forth by the phrase of washing pouring and sprinkling and it is as true that the sign need not exceed the thing signified but the sign need be adaequate to the thing signified and so is not any kind of washing but that of dipping under water nor doth that exceed the thing signified for that which is the main matter the signandum or the radical matter to all the rest is the death burial and resurrection of Christ and ours spiritually with him which things are no way Analogized in sprinkling and pouring but onely by a burial under water and bringing up again which yet are the only things that these three men plead to have left unsignifyed and unrepresented in the sign but we must have them all not only signified but also as much as may be lively pictured out in the sign of baptism this cannot be by infusion or aspersion for they are too narrow to resemble all but they may be and are in submersion and immersion for these are neither too narrow nor too wide but just adaequately resembling the signata there must be a sufficiency in the sign to the end saies Mr. Cook p. 20 namely to represent the spirituall grace though yet p. 17. he knew not any word of God wherein this representation is necessarily either expressed or implied Now the whole spiritual grace being the death burial and resurrection of Christ together with all the benefits thereof viz. the washing of our souls from guilt as to justification from filth as to sanctification as by the blood of Christ sprinkled and his spirit poured respect must be had that as neer as can be all these must be represented and that the Elements and actions be neither so overmuch as may take off the heart from the spiritual to the Corporal thing as we might easily do if we should do more then dipp under and raise up or should hold so long under water as almost to suffocate the subject nor yet so little as Mr. Cook saies well as not clearly to represent the spiritual grace the whole spiritual grace being therfore all these things forenamed care must be had that they be all Analogized as far as it is possible and ●specially the main which is fundamental to all the rest viz. Christs death burial and resurrection for this however ought to be done nor ought the other altogether to be left undone but if sprinkling be the way then the main thing is left undone for there is no representation of Christs death buriall and resurrection Rantist And if Totall Dipping be the way then many things are left undone for there is no representation of the blood of sprinkling and the Spirits powring Baptist. Not so neither with your leave for howbeit in bare infusion and aspersion death burial and resurrection are excluded yet in submersion and emersion both pouring and sprinkling are concluded the greater wettings containing in and under them the lesse but the lesse no way reaching to the other Moreover that remission of sins by the blood of Christ sprinkled is represented sufficiently in emersion as well as in aspersion not so the death burial and resurrection in Aspersion consult a learned Author for this that was for asspersion as well as your selves though I believe he saw submersion to be the better way i. e. Bucan who in page 668. as I have hinted above saies thus viz. Illa in aquam Mersio sive aspersio perspicue denotat Rantismon id est aspersionem sanguinis Christi in peccatorum remissionem justitiae imputationem mora autem c. So that we see he counted submersion though it exceed that one part of the thing signified viz. Christs blood sprinkled yet to signify represent that vertually as well as other things I conclude therefore notwithstanding any exceptions that Either Mr Ba. Mr. Cook or Mr. Blake hath put in hitherto against what hath been said by us in proof that baptism was by dipping in the primitive time that that was the way of baptism then Rantist But Mr. Blake hath many more Arguments then those you have yet spoken to whereby he cleerly evinces

mercifully meets them out of his way that does not exempt them from comming into it but much more oblige them if they had no further need of it as Christ had none of baptism save to fulfill all righteousness even meerly upon that account to meet him the more cheerfully in it for thus it becometh us me thinks as well as it did Christ himself to fulfil all the righteousnes of his law If any say I deny not the dispensation of laying on of hands in its due seaso● even in this age on baptized believers for the spirit but as they were bid to tarry at Ierusalem till they were indued with power from on high Luke 24.50 Act. 1.4 that they might have some men fit to go forth and by laying on of hands give the holy spirit being gifted and fitted by it and filled with it first themselves so we must wait in prayer only for a first giving out of it as Act. 2.1 till power come down on some to make them fit administrators of this dispensation to others and then act in it I say this only in short first their expectation that some men shall and thoughts that of old some men did baptize with the spirit is a grosse mistake for the most they could do was but to pray for it and barely lay on their hands Christ did the one and they the other Secondly if we must wait as they did till the day of Pentecost then we must till that time forbear all baptizing in water and suspend all preaching to the world aswel as laying on of hands but this though the Apostles did so in that juncture and intertime between Christs ascension and the descension of the holy spirit yet our Enquirers among whom some of eminency object as abovesaid do in this time I suppose baptize and increase their number by preaching the Gospel to the world Thus far as to the objections now as to what further obstructive interposal is made in way of question by the Enquirers some of whose queries viz. the second fourth seventh and eighth I have taken notice of above I shall now remove it by saying a little to the residue viz. the first third fifth and sixth The first which with the ground thereof is on this wise is rather a curious querk then a solid question so frivolous as is scarce fit to be answered with any thing but not a word yet a word neverthelesse even unto that First whereas they ground it upon our denial of communion with them we desire them to know that we may more justly put the businesse of our non-communion with them upon their score and lay the deniall of it at their own doors as their doing not ours I say not ours who earnestly desire to have communion even in one body with them and all men in a way of conformity to the word of Christ which gives neither example nor toleration so far as I know for any mix● communion in one Church of persons whereof some own all the principles of the doctrine of Christ and some not only own not but deny either all or any of them if it doth shew us where but theirs who deny a part of that very beginning of the word of Christ or first form of his doctrine all the several parts wherof collectively taken make that very foundation upon the whole of which and not part of it onely every right visible Church is built and constituted and besides which there can be no orderly either Church or communion Secondly whereas t is askt what persons are to say or do at the administration of laying hands that they may be found faithful in that point I say that according to Act. 8.15.17 the administrators are to pray for the baptized believers that they may according to the promise Act. 2.39 receive the holy spirit and after that to lay their hands upon them which is eas●y enough I wot to be understood without expressing what part of the body hands are to be laid on whether the head the place of our imposition which if hands be laid on t is laying on of hands is it not or any other part and as at baptism the believer is without gain-saying it to yield his body to be baptized so at laying on of hands the baptiz●d believer is to say nothing against it but to give way to have i● done accordingly The 3d. question with the ground thereof which runs thus is even as superfluous impertinent vain and frivolous as the former for howbeit neither am I one of those many that have ever yet formally and in terms desired baptized believers to require that hands should be laid on them yet laying on of hands on baptized believers either is Christs mind or it is not if it be not and the Enquirers ever prove it is not we will freely give them leave to require us to let it alone but if it be as t is proved to be above out of Act. 8.16 17.19.1.2.3.6 where t is so plain as to need no deduction then as I shall desire them to have us excused if henceforward we desire baptized believers to require it to be dispenst to them so I give them to understand that it being the mind of Christ though as baptism also is one of his too too dispised dispensations as stout and loath to stoop to it as some baptized believers seem to be t is no disparagement to the best of them that are yet as those Act. 8.16 onely baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus but a behaviour that may well enough beseem them to require it The fifth question is ushered in by an introduction consisting of nothing but division and subdivision of laying on of hands into different kinds according to the difference of the administrators of the persons to whom of the accounts or ends upon which and in order whereunto administred as it followes in their own words thus viz we do or may read of laying on of hands upon severall occasions differing one from the other First in the qualification of the administrator as Luke 21.12 compared with Mark 16 18. the one being wicked the other Godly Secondly differing qualifications in persons on whom hands were laid sometimes before baptized and sometimes after baptism Act. 9.17 and Acts 8.17 Thirdly hands were imposed upon several accounts or ends sometimes to be brought before Rulers as Luke 21.12 sometimes to heal the sick Acts 28. 8. sometimes to cure the blind Act. 9.17 sometimes to set men apart to administer temporall things Acts 6.6 sometimes to set men apart to administer spiritual things Act. 13.3 these were gifted before hands were laid on them Sometimes hands were imposed that men might be gifted 1 Tim 4.14 sometimes hands were laid on by men gifted to give the holy ghost to them that were not set a part to Office as many of themselves say from Acts 8. 17. After which their question with its ground comes

of this present age and nation as denying any obedience to civil Magistracy any propriety in goods as holding plurallity and community of wives divorce for difference in religion as dipping men and women stark naked and such like Yea just the same lying shi●ts and inventions that the Popish Clergy did use to help their Religion by against the Protestants when they began first to protest against them and their abominations do you the Protestant CCClergy i. e. both Prelacy and Presbytery strengthen your cause by against the Anabaptists especially of all sectaries 1. They detain the People from reading the Scripture alledging to them the perills they may incurr through misinterpretation you likewise would not have the Scripture medled with by this Clergy of Laicks Mechanick fantastick Enthusiasts profound watermen Sublime Coachmen Illuminated Tradesmen c. Apron Levites Sectarian Preachers as Dr. Featley and Mr. Baily call them for they say you are dunces and ignorant both of tongues and arts and so must needs run into errors and are insufficient for these things let the smith keep him to his Anvile and the Cobler to his last 2. These bred Antipathy between the Papist and Protestant and debar them all sound of the Protestant Religion as much as may be by prohibiting books of the reformed writers and Traffick with such Hereticall Countries or such places where those contagious sounds and sights as they term them might make them return infected You also forbid your good Protestants all society and commerce as much t is possible with these pitchy persons as those that they can't come neer but they must be defiled with them 3. Those by the severity of their inquisition and so you by your high commission and spiritual alias spiteful Courts while they stood and by complaints to the next Classis Synod c. as in Scotland and threats to have an order taken with such and such as here in England crush as far as you can in your people the very beginnings and smallest suppositions of being this way addicted 4. They teach their people to Believe that the Protestants and so do you that the Anabaptists are basphemers of God and his Saints Those that in England Churches are turned into Stables you that the Anabaptists preach in Tubs that Stables are turned into Temples stalls into Quires Shopboards into Communion-tables Those that the people i. e. Protestants are barbarous and eat young children that Geneva is a professed sanctuary of Roguery c. you that the Anabaptists are filthy and base in their Conventicles and are for Murder Adulteries Butchery Bawdery the veriest villains in the world You tell the world that the Anabaptists would have no rules nor bonds of lawes because of their dissolutenesse which though it be true enough of the Ranter that Peter and Iude speaks of that seperate themselves from their churches sensual presumptuous self-willed despising Government Peter the second Epist. chap. 2. yet is most false of our Churches that seperate from you that we would have no discipline in the Church no learning nor universities No coercive power in the civill Magistrates to restrain us because we walk inordinately whereas though we cannot away with your Canons yet we are the only men in the world for the rule which Christ himself hath set for men to walk by even the word the Scriptures which onely and not Synodicall constitutions nor holy chair we stand to have the standard for truth to be tryed by to the worlds end and are for all lawes in nations save such as obedience to which makes us palpably rebellious against the law of Christ viz. lawes for tithes with trebble dammages for Christ never appointed mens goods to be streined and they sold out of what they have to pay his own Ministers for preaching his own Gospel much lesse to pay the Popes Ministers for preaching a Gospel of their own also laws to come to masse in Latine or Masse in English or any service of mans making under penalty we also stand for a true Church that hath right matter viz. professed believers baptized and right form viz. free not forced fellowship in breaking of bread and prayers we are also for the true discipline i. e. Christs not the Clergies in that Church we hold also that Magistrates though their persons should be wicked men and heathens for the notion of Christian addes nothing to their power as Magistrates are the ordinance of God To maintain all civil justice and righteousnesse between man and man and to restrain abuses such as murder treason adultery drunkennesse theft false witnesse though they have no coercive power to keep men from serving God according to his own will that power we deny yet go not about by violence to withstand it but in quietnesse suffer under it when it is put forth against us we are also for learning for t is a good talent to use for God and too good for the Devill a good servant but a bad master and we wish that there were more of it then there is among you CCClergy if it may be also well improved as it seldome is by those of you that have it for as those of you that are more singular schollars then the rest in humanity and that meer Anthropo-Theology that is among you which you call Divinity are deep dunces for the most part in the school of Christ and most opposite through the wisdome of their flesh which is enmity against God to the follishnesse of the Gospel so no lesse then legions of you are little learned 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 either Yea verily and fiftly howbeit among other things you brand the Anabaptists with the names of an illiterate and sottish sect cut as chips out of Nicolas Stock whom Featly faines to be the father of the Anabaptists and stiles a very blockhead and such as know not how to teach nor dispute for truth because they know not the original and cannot conclude in mod and figure p. 113.164.163 nor make able ministers of the Gospel because they understand not the Scripture in the Original languages and cannot expound without Grammer nor perswade without Rhetorick nor divide without logick nor sound the depth of any controversie without Philosophy and School divinity p. 118 yea Dr. Featley defeats 1000s of his fellow Clergy men utterly in so saying from the name of able Ministers yea as he saies of us in another so may we of them in this case hos suo ingulamus gladio we may wound them with their own dudgeon dagger for if ignorant and unlearned men are not fit to make ministers then not onely their Laity which are millions are unlearned for the most part and so by Dr. Featleys own confession unfit to be teachers of truth but even multitudes of their CCClergy too for it is none of the least brands saies Dr. Featley p. 164. of the Roman Antichrist that he filled the Church with