Selected quad for the lemma: order_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
order_n	deny_v	direct_v	great_a	16	3	2.1187	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A93884	The second part of the duply to M.S. alias Two brethren. Wherein are maintained the Kings, Parliaments, and all civil magistrates authority about the Church. Subordination of ecclesiasticall judicatories. Refuted the independency of particular congregations. Licentiousnesse of wicked conscience, and toleration of all sorts of most detestable schismes, heresies and religions; as, idolatry, paganisme, turcisme, Judaisme, Arrianisme, Brownisme, anabaptisme, &c. which M.S. maintain in their book. With a brief epitome and refutation of all the whole independent-government. Most humbly submitted to the Kings most excellent Majestie. To the most Honorable Houses of Parliament. The most Reverend and learned Divines of the Assembly. And all the Protestant churches in this island and abroad. By Adam Steuart. Octob. 3. 1644. Imprimatur Ja: Cranford.; Duply to M.S. alias Two brethren. Part 2.	Steuart, Adam.	1644 (1644)	Wing S5491; Thomason E20_7; ESTC R2880	197,557	205

good_a of_o the_o church_n which_o he_o will_v have_v to_o belong_v to_o the_o parliament_n and_o all_o other_o 2._o a_o authoritative_a power_n to_o conclude_v say_v and_o set_v down_o what_o shall_v must_v or_o aught_o to_o be_v do_v against_o all_o contradiction_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o this_o he_o grant_v to_o god_n alone_o and_o add_v if_o the_o presbyterian_o demand_v such_o a_o directive_n power_n let_v they_o ask_v the_o crown_n throne_n and_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n also_o to_o this_o a._n s._n say_v that_o all_o man_n may_v grant_v it_o to_o be_v true_a if_o they_o claim_v any_o sovereign_a royal_a authoritative_a power_n but_o if_o they_o claim_v only_o a_o ministerial_a power_n it_o be_v as_o great_a a_o sacrilege_n to_o deny_v they_o it_o as_o blasphemy_n in_o they_o to_o arrogate_v the_o other_o since_o they_o be_v god_n minister_n and_o ambassador_n for_o christ_n 3._o a_o prudentiall_a faculty_n or_o ability_n to_o direct_v order_n or_o prescribe_v whether_o to_o a_o man_n self_n or_o to_o other_o what_o in_o a_o way_n of_o reason_n humane_a conjecture_n or_o probability_n be_v best_a and_o fit_a to_o be_v do_v follow_v or_o embrace_v in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o this_o he_o grant_v to_o the_o parliament_n to_o many_o private_a member_n of_o particular_a church_n and_o to_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n also_o howsoever_o with_o a_o restriction_n but_o in_o all_o these_o his_o conjecture_n he_o have_v no_o way_n guess_v at_o my_o mind_n for_o by_o a_o directive_n power_n however_o i_o mean_v a_o prudentiall_a prudence_n yet_o mean_v i_o not_o a_o private_a prudentiall_a prudence_n which_o may_v be_v find_v in_o midwife_n maidservant_n and_o watermen_n for_o in_o grant_v such_o a_o power_n to_o the_o parliament_n and_o ecclesiastical_a senate_n he_o grant_v they_o no_o more_o then_o to_o the_o mean_a of_o the_o people_n but_o i_o mean_v a_o authoritative_a public_a and_o ecclesiastical_a prudentiall_a power_n not_o sovereign_a imperial_a royal_a or_o despoticall_a or_o magisterial_a but_o ministerial_a such_o as_o may_v belong_v to_o minister_n and_o ambassador_n of_o christ_n and_o as_o i_o have_v say_v it_o be_v not_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d whereof_o aristotle_n speak_v in_o the_o category_n of_o quality_n but_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d no_o natural_a power_n no_o natural_a or_o supernatural_a habitude_n but_o potestas_fw-la or_o moral_a power_n depend_v upon_o will_n and_o not_o upon_o nature_n or_o that_o be_v the_o work_n of_o will_n and_o not_o of_o nature_n chap._n vii_o wherein_o be_v dissolve_v his_o 6_o 7_o 8_o 9_o 10_o 11_o 12._o reason_n borrow_a from_o the_o parliament_n ordinance_n ob._n 6._o after_o all_o his_o guess_v so_o little_a to_o purpose_n p._n 35._o §_o 6._o he_o endeavour_v to_o prove_v by_o the_o ordinance_n of_o the_o parliament_n for_o the_o call_n of_o the_o assembly_n that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n do_v claim_v yea_o and_o exercise_v act_n and_o make_v use_n of_o such_o a_o authority_n from_o day_n to_o day_n as_o occasion_n require_v because_o the_o parliament_n publish_v their_o ordinance_n for_o call_v the_o assembly_n a._n s._n answ_o i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n for_o that_o contrivance_n and_o publish_n of_o their_o ordinance_n be_v not_o a_o directive_n power_n intrinsical_v to_o the_o church_n whereof_o we_o speak_v for_o neither_o direct_v it_o they_o intrinsical_o in_o doctrine_n discipline_n or_o manner_n but_o extrinsecal_o 1._o because_o the_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n may_v be_v and_o have_v sundry_a time_n be_v convocate_v without_o it_o as_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n 2._o because_o it_o be_v before_o ever_o the_o synod_n begin_v and_o without_o any_o ecclesiastical_a act_n now_o what_o be_v before_o a_o synod_n begin_v and_o without_o any_o ecclesiastical_a act_n can_v be_v intrinsical_n to_o the_o synod_n or_o to_o the_o church_n 3._o because_o the_o directive_n power_n whereof_o i_o speak_v be_v in_o judge_v of_o controversy_n of_o religion_n etc._n etc._n but_o the_o publish_n of_o a_o ordinance_n for_o call_v the_o assembly_n be_v no_o such_o thing_n ergo_fw-la 4._o because_o that_o call_v of_o the_o assembly_n by_o civil_a authority_n alone_o be_v extraordinary_a howbeit_o very_o just_a and_o conform_v unto_o god_n word_n neither_o can_v this_o be_v a_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n unless_o it_o be_v virtual_o call_v by_o the_o church_n officer_n in_o virtue_n of_o their_o subsequent_a consent_n thereunto_o and_o all_o these_o answer_n must_v be_v take_v conjunct_o and_o not_o several_o 5._o because_o this_o assembly_n be_v not_o ecclesiastical_a in_o virtue_n of_o the_o ordinance_n of_o the_o parliament_n but_o of_o the_o virtual_a consent_n of_o the_o church_n the_o virtual_a indiction_n of_o it_o by_o church_n authority_n contribute_v to_o make_v it_o intrinsical_o ecclesiastical_a but_o the_o ordinance_n of_o the_o parliament_n be_v extrinsecall_v unto_o it_o in_o so_o far_o forth_o as_o ecclesiastical_a howsoever_o it_o be_v very_o just_a and_o necessary_a but_o it_o be_v intrinsical_v to_o it_o accidental_o and_o in_o so_o far_o as_o be_v to_o be_v receive_v in_o the_o state_n which_o absolute_o be_v extrinsecall_v to_o the_o church_n ob._n m._n s._n in_o limit_v those_o that_o be_v to_o be_v of_o the_o assembly_n to_o the_o subject_n or_o argument_n on_o which_o it_o be_v permit_v they_o to_o debate_v they_o do_v no_o less_o i._n e._n they_o exercise_v a_o directive_n power_n a._n s._n answ_n 1._o but_o this_o be_v no_o intrinsical_a directive_n power_n whereof_o i_o speak_v viz._n in_o teach_v preach_a judgeing_a of_o controversy_n of_o religion_n etc._n etc._n 2._o this_o be_v no_o ecclesiastical_a but_o a_o civil_a power_n 3._o in_o so_o do_v the_o parliament_n judge_v not_o what_o be_v to_o be_v believe_v or_o practise_v in_o the_o church_n but_o ordain_v they_o to_o judge_v which_o be_v the_o true_a intrinsical_n directive_n power_n 4._o and_o this_o be_v extraordinary_a in_o respect_n of_o god_n particular_a howbeit_o not_o in_o respect_n of_o his_o general_a providence_n in_o the_o government_n of_o his_o church_n m._n s._n ob._n 8._o in_o appoint_v and_o order_v they_o not_o to_o determine_v or_o conclude_v of_o thing_n as_o they_o please_v by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n but_o to_o deliver_v their_o opinion_n and_o advice_n as_o shall_v be_v most_o agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n another_o proviso_n in_o the_o ordinance_n they_o do_v the_o same_o a.s._n 1_o m.s._n will_v here_o seem_v to_o give_v some_o great_a power_n unto_o the_o parliament_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n &_o yet_o it_o be_v nothing_o else_o but_o that_o which_o he_o grant_v to_o too_o many_o private_a member_n of_o particular_a church_n so_o that_o if_o the_o king_n and_o parliament_n will_v become_v member_n of_o this_o m._n s._n his_o church_n and_o he_o please_v to_o admit_v they_o it_o may_v be_v that_o he_o will_v grant_v they_o as_o much_o power_n as_o to_o other_o private_a member_n thereof_o 2._o note_v that_o he_o say_v not_o that_o it_o belong_v unto_o they_o but_z that_o they_o claim_v it_o exercise_n act_n and_o make_v use_n of_o it_o but_o quo_fw-la jure_fw-la quave_fw-la injuriâ_fw-la he_o tell_v not_o 3._o in_o all_o this_o there_o appear_v no_o intrinsical_n or_o ecclesiastical_a power_n they_o do_v it_o not_o by_o a_o spiritual_a but_o by_o a_o secular_a power_n 4._o and_o if_o the_o church_n have_v not_o a_o spiritual_a and_o ecclesiastical_a power_n to_o determine_v and_o to_o conclude_v what_o need_v the_o parliament_n to_o forbid_v it_o the_o synod_n rather_o than_o ordinary_a tradesman_n who_o have_v no_o such_o power_n to_o determine_v such_o matter_n 5._o neither_o by_o this_o command_n be_v it_o the_o parliament_n mind_n as_o i_o believe_v to_o take_v away_o from_o the_o church_n the_o directive_n and_o intrinsical_v power_n that_o god_n have_v grant_v she_o but_o only_o to_o desire_v she_o to_o put_v off_o her_o determination_n till_o it_o see_v how_o far_o it_o can_v prevail_v by_o fair_a mean_n to_o gain_v pertinacious_a man_n who_o may_v oppo●e_v it_o and_o happy_o also_o till_o it_o receive_v full_a satisfaction_n itself_o before_o it_o confirm_v such_o determination_n by_o a_o act_n of_o parliament_n and_o so_o make_v they_o to_o be_v receive_v by_o their_o authority_n in_o the_o state_n for_o the_o parliament_n have_v no_o less_o civil_a and_o secular_a authority_n to_o receive_v or_o not_o receive_v it_o by_o a_o civil_a law_n into_o the_o state_n than_o any_o synod_n have_v spiritual_a authority_n to_o establish_v or_o not_o establish_v it_o by_o a_o ecclesiastical_a law_n in_o the_o church_n wherefore_o in_o this_o the_o parliament_n intend_v not_o to_o cross_v the_o church_n government_n nor_o to_o be_v cross_v in_o their_o civil_a government_n by_o the_o church_n as_o in_o former_a time_n

procure_v her_o peace_n and_o to_o put_v all_o the_o church_n of_o god_n in_o confusion_n rather_o than_o in_o order_n 21._o be_v it_o credible_a that_o god_n shall_v have_v give_v his_o son_n to_o death_n to_o purchase_v we_o a_o order_n whereby_o all_o church_n may_v live_v in_o peace_n and_o unity_n and_o yet_o make_v they_o to_o quit_v all_o sacramental_a communion_n one_o with_o another_o have_v no_o common_a confession_n of_o faith_n nor_o any_o common_a platform_n of_o ecclesiastical_a government_n among_o they_o whether_o in_o the_o militant_a visible_a church_n there_o shall_v be_v a_o jndependency_n of_o church_n chap._n i._n the_o question_n state_v as_o m._n s._n of_o the_o first_o question_n make_v two_o so_o do_v he_o here_o of_o the_o second_o other_o two_o viz._n his_o three_o question_n for_o presbyterial_a government_n whereof_o he_o treat_v in_o the_o former_a chap._n and_o his_o 4._o question_v of_o independency_n whereof_o he_o treat_v in_o this_o his_o 4._o chap._n but_o they_o be_v not_o two_o question_n but_o two_o divers_a opinion_n about_o one_o and_o the_o same_o question_n so_o have_v commit_v this_o fault_n he_o commit_v again_o another_o much_o worse_o for_o he_o go_v on_o very_a confuse_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o his_o dispute_n and_o without_o ever_o state_v the_o question_n or_o declare_v what_o he_o mean_v by_o independency_n he_o go_v about_o to_o justify_v his_o independent_a government_n in_o a_o cataskevastique_a or_o assertive_a way_n wherefore_o to_o the_o end_n that_o the_o reader_n may_v the_o better_a judge_n both_o of_o his_o cataskevastique_n and_o of_o my_o anaskevastique_a way_n i_o will_v state_n the_o question_n and_o show_v what_o he_o have_v to_o prove_v and_o i_o to_o refute_v 1._o note_v therefore_o i_o pray_v thou_o courteous_a reader_n that_o independency_n be_v a_o sort_n of_o ecclesiastical_a government_n whereby_o every_o particular_a church_n be_v rule_v by_o its_o minister_n its_o doctor_n some_o rule_v elder_n and_o all_o those_o who_o be_v admit_v to_o be_v member_n thereof_o who_o how_o heterodox_n and_o haereticall_a soever_o they_o be_v in_o doctrine_n and_o how_o wicked_a and_o damnable_a soever_o they_o be_v in_o their_o life_n will_v not_o yet_o submit_v to_o any_o ecclesiastical_a power_n whatsoever_o yea_o not_o to_o that_o of_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o world_n be_v they_o never_o so_o orthodox_n and_o holy_a in_o their_o life_n 2._o note_v that_o the_o reason_n wherefore_o they_o will_v not_o submit_v to_o any_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n according_a to_o their_o opinion_n be_v not_o out_o of_o any_o disobedience_n in_o themselves_o as_o they_o pretend_v but_o for_o want_v of_o authority_n in_o the_o church_n for_o they_o believe_v that_o howbeit_o any_o particular_a church_n or_o any_o of_o her_o member_n shall_v fall_v into_o never_o so_o damnable_a heresy_n or_o wickedness_n that_o yet_o god_n have_v not_o ordain_v any_o authoritative_a power_n to_o judge_v she_o but_o that_o her_o power_n be_v as_o great_a as_o that_o of_o all_o the_o church_n in_o the_o world_n and_o that_o all_o that_o they_o can_v do_v in_o such_o a_o case_n be_v no_o more_o but_o only_o to_o counsel_n she_o as_o she_o may_v do_v they_o and_o in_o case_n she_o will_v not_o follow_v their_o counsel_n that_o they_o ought_v to_o do_v nothing_o else_o but_o only_o declare_v that_o they_o will_v have_v no_o more_o communion_n with_o she_o as_o she_o may_v likewise_o do_v to_o they_o in_o the_o like_a case_n viz._n if_o they_o will_v not_o follow_v her_o advice_n when_o she_o be_v offend_v with_o their_o doctrine_n government_n life_n or_o proceed_n the_o question_n then_o betwixt_o we_o and_o they_o be_v whether_o god_n have_v establish_v any_o such_o independent_a government_n in_o his_o church_n or_o not_o we_o deny_v it_o m._n s._n affirm_v it_o and_o argue_v as_o follow_v m._n s._n page_n 75._o of_o his_o book_n who_o then_o can_v lay_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o charge_n of_o this_o government_n that_o can_v i_o quoth_v a._n s._n in_o effect_n page_n 38_o 39_o etc._n etc._n i_o have_v 10._o reason_n or_o objection_n against_o it_o a._n s._n i_o confess_v that_o m._n s._n brag_v of_o this_o his_o independent_a government_n as_o his_o word_n express_v but_o it_o be_v a_o manifest_a untruth_n that_o ever_o i_o brag_v of_o 16._o reason_n as_o m._n s._n most_o foolish_o represent_v i_o here_o it_o be_v a._n s._n his_o custom_n to_o bring_v reason_n and_o not_o to_o boast_v of_o they_o as_o it_o be_v m._n s._n his_o manner_n to_o boast_v and_o brag_v with_o high_a word_n without_o any_o reason_n at_o all_o and_o for_o answer_v to_o this_o i_o say_v there_o be_v no_o one_o such_o word_n or_o expression_n in_o all_o my_o book_n it_o be_v but_o m._n s._n his_o word_n and_o fiction_n m._n s._n i_o shall_v not_o spend_v time_n in_o transcribe_v these_o your_o reason_n but_o shall_v desire_v the_o reader_n though_o it_o may_v be_v some_o discourtesy_n unto_o you_o to_o take_v your_o book_n into_o his_o hand_n a._n s._n i_o be_o bind_v to_o your_o courtesy_n good_a sir_n that_o will_v not_o let_v my_o weak_a reason_n appear_v in_o front_n against_o your_o strong_a answer_n but_o since_o it_o be_v not_o m._n s._n his_o pleasure_n that_o they_o appear_v in_o his_o most_o worthy_a book_n i_o hope_v that_o the_o courteous_a reader_n shall_v not_o be_v offend_v if_o i_o make_v they_o together_o with_o his_o answer_n and_o a._n s._n his_o duplye_n appear_v here_o in_o i_o my_o argument_n then_o be_v such_o as_o follow_v chap._n ii_o reason_n against_o the_o independency_n of_o particular_a congregation_n 1._o the_o independent_a church_n have_v no_o sufficient_a remedy_n for_o miscarriage_n though_o never_o so_o gross_a no_o relief_n for_o wrongful_a sentence_n or_o person_n injure_v by_o they_o no_o powerful_a or_o effectual_a mean_n to_o reduce_v a_o church_n or_o church_n that_o fall_v into_o heresy_n or_o schism_n etc._n etc._n all_o that_o they_o can_v do_v be_v only_o to_o pronounce_v a_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o delinquent_n church_n as_o on_o the_o other_o side_n delinquent_n church_n may_v do_v against_o they_o 2._o this_o remedy_n be_v new_a neither_o be_v it_o know_v to_o the_o independent_a congregation_n before_o that_o emergent_a case_n in_o holland_n relate_v in_o the_o apologetical_a narration_n for_o if_o that_o church_n offend_v have_v know_v so_o much_o it_o be_v not_o credible_a that_o she_o will_v against_o all_o charity_n and_o the_o common_a order_n of_o all_o church_n have_v commit_v so_o great_a a_o scandal_n 3._o this_o remedy_n be_v not_o sufficient_a nor_o satisfactory_a because_o all_o church_n according_a to_o your_o tenet_n be_v equal_a in_o authority_n independent_a one_o of_o another_o and_o par_n in_o parem_fw-la non_fw-la habet_fw-la imperium_fw-la none_o have_v power_n or_o authority_n over_o his_o equal_a how_o then_o can_v any_o church_n bind_v another_o to_o any_o such_o account_n but_o out_o of_o its_o free_a will_n as_o a_o party_n may_v do_v to_o its_o party_n 4._o because_o the_o church_n that_o be_v or_o that_o pretend_v to_o be_v offend_v by_o a_o delinquent_n church_n can_v judge_v she_o for_o than_o they_o become_v both_o judge_n and_o party_n in_o one_o cause_n which_o can_v be_v grant_v to_o those_o who_o have_v no_o authoritative_a power_n one_o over_o another_o as_o when_o a_o private_a man_n offend_v the_o state_n and_o we_o our_o god_n 5._o what_o if_o many_o church_n yea_o all_o the_o church_n shall_v offend_v one_o shall_v that_o one_o church_n gather_v all_o the_o rest_n together_o judge_v they_o all_o and_o in_o case_n of_o not_o submit_v themselves_o to_o her_o judgement_n separate_v herself_o from_o they_o all_o if_o so_o we_o shall_v have_v separation_n and_o schism_n enough_o which_o shall_v be_v continue_v to_o all_o posterity_n to_o come_v 6._o what_o if_o church_n be_v so_o remote_a one_o from_o another_o that_o they_o can_v not_o so_o easy_o meet_v together_o upon_o every_o occasion_n then_o there_o shall_v be_v no_o remedy_n at_o least_o not_o easy_a remedy_n 7._o what_o if_o the_o offence_n be_v small_a shall_v so_o many_o church_n for_o every_o trifle_n gather_v together_o and_o put_v themselves_o to_o so_o great_a cost_n and_o trouble_v 8._o what_o if_o the_o church_n shall_v differ_v in_o their_o judgement_n one_o from_o another_o in_o such_o a_o case_n shall_v they_o all_o by_o schism_n separate_v themselves_o one_o from_o another_o 9_o this_o sort_n of_o government_n give_v no_o more_o power_n or_o authority_n to_o a_o thousand_o church_n over_o one_o then_o to_o a_o tinker_n yea_o to_o a_o hangman_n over_o a_o thousand_o for_o he_o may_v desire_v they_o all_o out_o of_o charity_n to_o give_v a_o account_n of_o their_o judgement_n in_o case_n he_o be_v offend_v

executive_a power_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n here_o he_o employ_v near_o upon_o four_o page_n in_o quarto_fw-la in_o a_o very_a small_a print_n about_o thing_n that_o be_v nothing_o at_o all_o to_o the_o purpose_n 1._o in_o threaten_v the_o parliament_n with_o god_n most_o heavy_a judgement_n in_o case_n they_o meddle_v themselves_o with_o any_o executive_a or_o coercive_a power_n against_o his_o new_a canonize_a independent_a saint_n he_o suppose_v they_o 1._o to_o be_v saint_n 2._o those_o little_a one_o matth._n 18.6_o he_o tell_v they_o be_v be_v better_a a_o millstone_n be_v hang_v about_o their_o neck_n then_o to_o meddle_v with_o one_o of_o these_o little_a one_o and_o that_o because_o the_o holy_a ghost_n prophesi_v of_o the_o put_n down_o of_o all_o rule_n and_o all_o authority_n and_o power_n by_o christ_n for_o he_o must_v reign_v till_o he_o have_v put_v all_o his_o enemy_n under_o his_o foot_n 1_o cor._n 15.24_o 25._o this_o argumentation_n will_v hold_v if_o you_o suppose_v the_o independent_o to_o be_v christ_n little_a saint_n and_o the_o king_n and_o parliament_n to_o be_v his_o enemy_n in_o case_n they_o meddle_v with_o they_o in_o hinder_v they_o to_o set_v up_o their_o sect_n but_o to_o the_o contrary_n god_n saint_n as_o themselves_o in_o case_n they_o suffer_v not_o presbyterian_o or_o any_o other_o no_o more_o than_o the_o independent_o do_v in_o new_a england_n so_o the_o independent_o shall_v reign_v over_o we_o all_o 2._o in_o guess_v what_o i_o mean_v by_o the_o word_n church_n whether_o a_o church_n in_o folio_n or_o in_o decimo_fw-la sexto_fw-la i_o have_v full_o expound_v it_o howbeit_o not_o in_o so_o choose_v new_a divinity_n term_n in_o folio_n and_o decimo_fw-la sexto_fw-la so_o i_o come_v to_o the_o rest_n of_o his_o reason_n chap._n viii_o wherein_o be_v answer_v m._n s._n his_o objection_n 25_o 26_o 27._o ob._n 25._o m.s._n when_o party_n pretend_v to_o be_v offend_v with_o the_o church_n or_o the_o church_n judge_v any_o thing_n amiss_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n may_v command_v the_o church_n to_o re-examine_a its_o judgement_n etc._n etc._n what_o reason_n then_o have_v he_o to_o be_v so_o invective_n against_o the_o apologist_n p._n 49._o &_o 50._o for_o hold_v that_o king_n or_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v above_o the_o church_n a.s._n answ_n 1._o the_o question_n be_v not_o whether_o the_o king_n and_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v above_o the_o church_n or_o not_o we_o grant_v that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v above_o the_o church_n as_o have_v a_o supreme_a political_a or_o civil_a power_n imperial_a regal_a aristocratical_a or_o democraticall_a yea_o altogether_o independent_a upon_o all_o the_o power_n of_o this_o world_n and_o only_o dependent_a upon_o god_n according_a to_o the_o law_n of_o the_o state_n wherein_o he_o rule_v yet_o not_o spiritual_a ecclesiastical_a or_o intrinsical_v to_o the_o church_n but_o secular_a and_o extrinsecall_v in_o his_o office_n he_o be_v not_o subordinate_a or_o vicegerent_n unto_o christ_n as_o christ_n but_o as_o god_n not_o in_o his_o royal_a or_o divine_a office_n whereby_o he_o rule_v his_o church_n but_o in_o his_o divine_a nature_n or_o power_n whereby_o he_o rule_v the_o world_n not_o in_o his_o particular_a providence_n about_o his_o saint_n but_o in_o his_o general_n about_o all_o man_n and_o state_n not_o according_a to_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n if_o he_o be_v consider_v only_o as_o a_o magistrate_n for_o then_o only_o they_o who_o be_v in_o this_o covenant_n shall_v be_v magistrate_n but_o of_o nature_n for_o if_o adam_n have_v continue_v in_o the_o state_n of_o innocence_n we_o shall_v have_v have_v magistrate_n without_o any_o mediator_n or_o covenant_n of_o grace_n a._n s._n will_v easy_o grant_v you_o that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v above_o the_o church_n only_o he_o deny_v that_o he_o be_v above_o the_o church_n by_o any_o spiritual_a or_o ecclesiastical_a power_n as_o independent_o hold_v but_o by_o his_o civil_a and_o secular_a authority_n which_o be_v not_o subordinate_a to_o christ_n as_o mediator_n as_o king_n or_o head_n of_o his_o church_n his_o power_n over_o the_o church_n be_v not_o intrinsical_v as_o you_o hold_v but_o extrinsecall_v as_o we_o confess_v 2._o it_o be_v also_o false_a that_o i_o inveigh_v against_o the_o apologist_n p._n 49._o 50._o unless_o reason_n be_v invective_n i_o pray_v the_o reader_n to_o look_v the_o place_n to_o the_o end_n he_o may_v see_v how_o little_a conscience_n these_o man_n make_v of_o untruth_n and_o if_o there_o be_v any_o invective_n there_o i_o be_o ready_a to_o suffer_v 3._o this_o argument_n be_v put_v in_o form_n will_v be_v thus_o they_o who_o may_v command_v the_o church_n be_v above_o the_o church_n the_o civil_a magistrate_n may_v command_v the_o church_n ergo_fw-la the_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v above_o the_o church_n answ_n if_o the_o word_n command_n and_o to_o be_v above_o be_v take_v for_o to_o command_v and_o to_o be_v above_o external_o and_o political_o i_o grant_v you_o all_o the_o argument_n viz._n that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v above_o the_o church_n extrinsecal_o and_o political_o but_o if_o you_o take_v both_o the_o word_n viz._n command_n for_o a_o a_o internal_a and_o ecclesiastical_a command_n that_o be_v within_o the_o church_n and_o the_o word_n above_o for_o above_o internal_o and_o ecclesiastical_o in_o a_o churchway_n i_o deny_v your_o minor_n if_o you_o take_v the_o one_o word_n one_o way_n and_o the_o other_o another_o way_n i_o deny_v your_o first_o proposition_n m.s._n ob._n 26._o p._n 44._o §_o 7._o if_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v power_n to_o command_v the_o church_n to_o revise_v her_o judgement_n when_o she_o judge_v any_o thing_n amiss_o sure_o he_o have_v power_n to_o examine_v and_o judge_v of_o her_o proceed_n and_o consequent_o have_v a_o directive_n power_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n but_o the_o first_o be_v grant_v by_o a.s._n his_o concession_n ergo_fw-la so_o must_v the_o second_o a.s._n answ_n 1._o i_o answer_v to_o your_o proposition_n that_o in_o the_o same_o way_n the_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v power_n to_o judge_v or_o a_o directive_n power_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n he_o have_v power_n to_o command_v now_o his_o power_n to_o command_v as_o i_o have_v say_v be_v only_o political_a civil_a and_o extrinsecall_v ergo_fw-la such_o also_o must_v be_v his_o power_n to_o judge_v or_o directive_n power_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n viz._n civil_a political_a and_o extrinsecall_v to_o the_o church_n howsoever_o intrinsical_v to_o the_o state_n for_o as_o he_o have_v a_o civil_a royal_a imperial_a or_o aristocratical_a power_n to_o command_v so_o have_v he_o a_o civil_a royal_a imperial_a or_o aristocratical_a power_n etc._n etc._n to_o judge_n and_o to_o direct_v he_o in_o his_o command_n unless_o he_o command_v without_o judgement_n but_o i_o deny_v that_o this_o conclude_v that_o he_o have_v any_o ecclesiastical_a or_o spiritual_a power_n that_o be_v intrinsical_v to_o the_o church_n or_o church-officer_n who_o govern_v the_o church_n 2._o this_o argument_n conclude_v not_o a_o executive_a power_n which_o be_v the_o title_n of_o the_o chapter_n and_o that_o which_o he_o intend_v to_o prove_v this_o be_v like_a to_o montagnes_n discourse_n who_o sundry_a time_n have_v one_o thing_n in_o the_o title_n and_o another_o in_o the_o chapter_n m._n s._n obj._n 27._o p._n 44._o sect_n 7._o §_o 3._o be_v put_v in_o form_n will_v be_v thus_o they_o who_o may_v determine_v and_o judge_v amiss_o shall_v not_o compel_v or_o make_v the_o people_n under_o their_o government_n to_o swear_v obedience_n or_o subjection_n unto_o their_o order_n which_o yet_o by_o your_o own_o confession_n they_o do_v but_o your_o presbyterial_a assembly_n may_v determine_v and_o judge_v amiss_o ergo._n a.s._n answ_n 1._o the_o proposition_n be_v false_a 2._o or_o if_o it_o be_v true_a i_o subsume_v but_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n both_o in_o ecclesiastical_a and_o state_n matter_n may_v judge_v amiss_o ergo_fw-la the_o civil_a magistrate_n shall_v not_o compel_v the_o people_n under_o his_o obedience_n unto_o his_o order_n ergo_fw-la the_o parliament_n shall_v not_o compel_v or_o make_v any_o man_n to_o swear_v the_o covenant_n ergo_fw-la the_o independent_o shall_v not_o have_v take_v the_o covenant_n because_o that_o the_o parliament_n may_v determine_v and_o judge_v amiss_o 3._o by_o this_o reason_n a_o man_n must_v be_v tolerate_v in_o reject_v all_o confession_n or_o faith_n because_o they_o who_o contrive_v they_o may_v err_v 4._o in_o new-england_n since_o they_o may_v err_v they_o can_v compel_v no_o man_n to_o your_o religion_n but_o must_v tolerate_v they_o which_o you_o will_v never_o grant_v 5._o i_o deny_v the_o assumption_n 1._o for_o our_o church_n compel_v not_o the_o people_n to_o swear_v obedience_n or_o

subjection_n unto_o their_o order_n for_o compulsion_n be_v a_o principio_fw-la externo_fw-la contra_fw-la inclinationem_fw-la agentis_fw-la it_o proceed_v from_o a_o externall_n principle_n against_o the_o natural_a inclination_n of_o the_o agent_n viz._n that_o be_v compel_v to_o produce_v the_o action_n and_o so_o be_v exercise_v only_o against_o the_o body_n over_o which_o the_o church_n take_v no_o authority_n but_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n alone_o 2._o neither_o say_v i_o to_o my_o knowledge_n any_o such_o thing_n 3._o neither_o cite_v you_o the_o place_n 4._o only_o i_o remember_v that_o in_o my_o observation_n and_o annotation_n upon_o the_o apology_n p._n 39_o §_o 4_o i_o say_v that_o the_o combine_a eldership_n have_v a_o authoritative_a power_n all_o man_n and_o church_n thereof_o be_v bind_v by_o law_n and_o covenant_n to_o submit_v themselves_o thereunto_o viz._n in_o a_o spiritual_a manner_n since_o the_o power_n be_v spiritual_a never_o a_o word_n here_o of_o compulsion_n or_o violence_n our_o church_n neither_o compel_v man_n body_n nor_o have_v they_o any_o prison_n or_o any_o pecuniary_a mulct_n but_o if_o any_o man_n will_v trouble_v the_o church_n and_o be_v disobedient_a it_o be_v the_o duty_n of_o the_o christian_a civil_a magistrate_n to_o use_v his_o power_n to_o hinder_v such_o a_o disorder_n if_o we_o have_v not_o a_o christian_a and_o a_o orthodox_n magistrate_n in_o some_o place_n as_o in_o france_n and_o in_o some_o part_n of_o germany_n or_o if_o the_o christian_a magistrate_n will_v not_o do_v his_o duty_n he_o who_o will_v not_o submit_v unto_o our_o church-government_n be_v cast_v out_o and_o punish_v spiritual_o by_o simple_a censure_n suspension_n or_o excommunication_n according_a to_o the_o quality_n of_o his_o sin_n 5._o learn_v also_o i_o pray_v you_o m.s._n that_o it_o be_v not_o fallibility_n but_o actual_a fail_n or_o ignorance_n that_o may_v excuse_v he_o who_o be_v subject_a unto_o any_o government_n or_o authority_n from_o obedience_n nor_o yet_o all_o fail_v in_o judgement_n or_o error_n but_o only_o that_o which_o be_v antecedent_n to_o all_o the_o act_n of_o our_o will_n which_o moral_o we_o can_v shun_v and_o be_v invincible_a 6._o neither_o be_v it_o evermore_o expedient_a that_o subject_n know_v certain_o whether_o their_o governors_n judge_n or_o do_v right_a in_o what_o they_o do_v for_o subject_n in_o some_o case_n must_v obey_v in_o virtue_n of_o a_o probable_a knowledge_n or_o conjecture_v that_o their_o governor_n command_v just_o and_o especial_o when_o they_o be_v not_o compel_v to_o be_v actor_n in_o that_o which_o they_o believe_v to_o be_v unlawful_a for_o they_o to_o do_v for_o i_o put_v the_o case_n that_o the_o king_n and_o parliament_n take_v a_o resolution_n to_o make_v war_n against_o any_o foreign_a prince_n and_o press_v some_o man_n to_o serve_v in_o such_o a_o war_n it_o be_v not_o for_o every_o press_a man_n to_o call_v the_o king_n and_o parliament_n to_o a_o account_n about_o the_o equity_n of_o the_o war_n neither_o be_v they_o bind_v to_o discover_v to_o every_o soldier_n all_o the_o secret_n and_o particularity_n of_o state_n thereupon_o m.s._n ob._n 28._o why_o be_v you_o not_o satisfy_v with_o that_o subjection_n to_o your_o presbyterial_a decision_n that_o plead_v no_o exemption_n but_o only_o in_o case_n of_o non-satisfaction_n about_o the_o lawfulness_n or_o truth_n of_o they_o a.s._n ans_fw-fr 1._o we_o be_v content_a with_o it_o 2._o and_o in_o case_n of_o non-satisfaction_n our_o church_n give_v they_o sufficient_a satisfaction_n 3._o but_o if_o they_o will_v not_o be_v satisfy_v when_o many_o thousand_o be_v satisfy_v we_o maintain_v that_o it_o be_v not_o equitable_a that_o when_o 20000._o or_o 30000._o be_v satisfy_v two_o or_o three_o under_o pretext_n of_o non-satisfaction_n or_o twenty_o or_o thirty_o pertinacious_a fellow_n shall_v have_v liberty_n to_o trouble_v all_o the_o church_n of_o god_n in_o the_o world_n 4._o we_o say_v moreover_o that_o the_o church_n in_o dispute_v and_o confer_v with_o they_o and_o afterward_o in_o judge_v that_o she_o have_v give_v they_o sufficient_a satisfaction_n have_v give_v they_o sufficient_a satisfaction_n moral_o and_o that_o wise_a man_n shall_v judge_v it_o sufficient_a in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la and_o thereupon_o that_o they_o be_v to_o be_v condemn_v by_o the_o church_n in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la for_o there_o be_v no_o other_o way_n to_o proceed_v to_o sentence_n either_o in_o foro_fw-la civili_fw-la or_o ecclesiastico_fw-la 5._o if_o this_o will_v not_o satisfy_v they_o yet_o if_o they_o will_v be_v quiet_a and_o not_o trouble_v the_o church_n of_o god_n with_o their_o conventicle_n we_o can_v in_o christian_a charity_n tolerate_v they_o in_o their_o weakness_n yea_o in_o their_o malice_n if_o there_o be_v any_o till_o god_n impart_v unto_o they_o more_o grace_n but_o this_o serve_v nothing_o for_o independent_o who_o be_v come_v over_o the_o sea_n to_o beg_v a_o quarrel_n of_o we_o and_o to_o erect_v church_n in_o despite_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n against_o all_o law_n yea_o against_o their_o own_o tenet_n if_o they_o write_v as_o they_o believe_v for_o they_o pretend_v that_o church_n can_v be_v erect_v without_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n consent_v 6._o if_o all_o this_o content_v they_o not_o and_o their_o conscience_n will_v not_o permit_v they_o to_o do_v otherwise_o the_o port_n be_v free_a for_o they_o they_o may_v be_v go_v and_o live_v in_o all_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n in_o new_a england_n and_o trouble_v no_o more_o the_o country_n here_o than_o the_o country_n shall_v trouble_v they_o there_o 7._o or_o if_o this_o will_v not_o content_v they_o wherefore_o will_v they_o have_v more_o liberty_n here_o than_o they_o will_v grant_v we_o in_o new-england_n m.s._n ob._n 29._o if_o party_n may_v have_v cause_n to_o be_v offend_v with_o the_o church_n then_o have_v they_o power_n to_o judge_v of_o their_o action_n as_o well_o as_o they_o of_o they_o but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a ergo_fw-la the_o second_o also_o a.s._n i_o distinguish_v the_o consequent_a of_o the_o proposition_n they_o may_v judge_v by_o a_o public_a judgement_n it_o be_v false_a for_o every_o particular_a or_o private_a man_n have_v not_o a_o public_a power_n to_o judge_v nor_o consequent_o a_o public_a judgement_n they_o may_v judge_v by_o a_o private_a power_n which_o proper_o be_v not_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d potestas_fw-la authoritas_fw-la or_o authoritative_a power_n or_o judgement_n but_o a_o judgement_n of_o discretion_n so_o it_o be_v true_a but_o such_o a_o judgement_n be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o exempt_v he_o from_o obedience_n i_o mean_v not_o a_o active_a but_o a_o passive_a or_o rather_o a_o permissive_a obedience_n for_o howsoever_o his_o erroneous_a judgement_n may_v excuse_v and_o dispense_v he_o from_o a_o act_n wherein_o he_o be_v actor_n against_o his_o conscience_n yet_o can_v it_o not_o excuse_v he_o from_o suffer_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n for_o if_o he_o will_v not_o do_v what_o they_o will_v according_a to_o god_n word_n they_o may_v do_v and_o he_o must_v suffer_v and_o permit_v they_o to_o do_v what_o he_o will_v not_o and_o what_o they_o will_v according_a to_o god_n word_n whereof_o he_o have_v no_o public_a power_n to_o judge_v he_o must_v no_o way_n oppose_v actiuè_fw-fr the_o public_a judgement_n and_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n since_o he_o have_v no_o public_a power_n he_o must_v not_o set_v up_o a_o new_a church_n but_o deal_v with_o the_o church_n according_a to_o his_o vocation_n and_o if_o he_o can_v prevail_v in_o confer_v with_o the_o church_n he_o may_v appeal_v from_o a_o parish_n presbytery_n to_o a_o class_n if_o there_o he_o be_v likewise_o oppress_v he_o may_v appeal_v to_o a_o provincial_n synod_n if_o there_o again_o he_o be_v wrong_v by_o their_o judgement_n he_o may_v appeal_v unto_o a_o nationall_n synod_n if_o there_o he_o be_v oppress_v which_o probable_o will_v not_o ordinary_o fall_v out_o in_o all_o these_o judicatories_n rather_o than_o in_o first_o and_o last_o instance_n in_o a_o independent_a church_n compound_v peradventure_o of_o seven_o or_o eight_o idle_a fellow_n or_o pretend_v to_o be_v offend_v he_o must_v sit_v down_o patient_o and_o if_o he_o have_v any_o scruple_n of_o conscience_n he_o may_v consult_v foreign_a divine_n and_o if_o those_o satisfy_v he_o not_o in_o this_o singularity_n of_o his_o opinion_n i_o then_o propound_v my_o question_n whether_o it_o be_v more_o equitable_a that_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o world_n submit_v to_o this_o particular_a man_n opinion_n or_o he_o to_o they_o object_n but_o what_o if_o they_o err_v all_o and_o he_o be_v right_a answ_n when_o god_n have_v not_o give_v you_o any_o ordinary_a remedy_n you_o must_v have_v patience_n there_o must_v be_v offence_n yea_o heresy_n but_o woe_n unto_o he_o that_o be_v the_o cause_n