Lawe Hereupon hee addeth To all these poyntes that they are true I do subscribe with mine hande and name this 7. of October Anno Dom. 1585. Here I obserue that he testifieth it to be orderly done to come to our owne parish Churches which is more then his writings can well beare howsoeuer he thinke to shift it Also in that he sayth he refuseth not to communicate in the Sacraments perhaps he stoppeth the crye of his conscience which telleth him he communicateth not in the Sacraments with our congregation by this foolish and deceitfull perswasion namely that he satisfieth his promise by communicating in the Sacraments though but in his owne conuenticles But his argument of fact that he giueth to bring credite withall vnto the same assertion as in these wordes For I haue one childe thas is already baptized according to order and Lawe c. this I say stoppeth vp that starting hole against him And then it woulde bee shewed in what congregation of ours hee hath communicated in the Sacraments since the day of his running ouer sea Nay if his behauiour bee truely obserued when hee commeth into our congregations I doe not thinke it can bee proued that hee hath since that day so much as ioyned with them in their prayers To this last place of the matter of Brownes subscription I haue reserued one thing which is good for al to know and some to prouide for and that is this Answering to my Admonition for that point of his subscription which I had obiected against him as a proofe of a vile conscience he graunteth that he had subscribed but he denieth that he had so subscribed as that he should be prooued against himselfe thereby in anie thing Thereupon he setteth me downe though vntruly as you haue heard certaine fourmes of the pointes whereunto hee did subscribe and there withall telleth mee what handsome interpretations of his owne wordes he can make whereby giuing one hand to the satisfying of the authoritie that then dealt with him with the other hee stroketh the eyes of his foolish followers that they might sleepe still in the opinion of his good meaning As though the dealings of Rob. Browne had not otherwise bene vile ynough except he had by this means shewed that he hath not one haire of an honest man about him Read beloued and then testifie The first article of his subscription he reporteth thus The bishops ciuill authoritie Browne did acknowledge lawfull in his subscription and their magistracie to bee obeyed Well how doe you thinke he maketh this agree with his bookes euen thus hee telles you that hee doeth by those wordes neither iustifie those for brethren which doe persecute nor allow an idle and Lordly ministerie in the Church as a part of the brotherhoode How the reader can conceyue this that he denieth vpon his subscription I knowe not but thus much I am sure this his explication certifieth that the BB. being by the Queene and her lawes allowed the titles of Lordes are accounted of Browne not to bee members of the Church And by this answere it appeareth he coggeth this imagination into his disciples that hee allowed the BB. ciuill authoritie but therewithall denied them their ecclesiasticall ministerie Howbeit in plaine wordes he subscribed to their authoritie To couer himselfe in the 2. article hee is faine to hide the trueth as I haue before discouered For the third though he vse the same craft yet in that hee cannot but confesse that hee subscribed that his childe was baptized according to order of lawe to salue his credite with his companions in this hee saith But yet it was done without his consent and contrary to an order he had taken and appointed for it was baptised in England he being beyonde the sea If it were contrarie to his purpose howe coulde it argue his not refusing to communicate in the Sacrament On the other side if hee tell his disciples true of his meaning herein that hee had taken other order for his childs baptizing but that his being beyond sea crossed his purpose how agreeth that with his neglecting of the same order taking for his later childes baptizing which euen at the time of his subscription he alledged by way of coniecture as if God had giuen his wife safe deliuerance to be baptized also according to lawe He was nowe in Englande when hee might haue taken better order if the first were such an errour But because he had no such colourable excuse for this he tooke a shorter way though no lesse shamefull in stepping ouer that part of the article as though there had beene no such thing Also for his alleaging his seruants comming to Church according to lawe whereby he perswaded vnto the BB. his owne conformitie that way he excuseth this to his companions to be for that he was not to force his seruants agaynst their conscience and custome being newly come to him Adding this beside that he neuer came to the same Church with them the parson beeing a common drunkard and infamous by sundrie faults Againe confessing he promised the BB. on the one side that he would come to Church according to order of lawe On the other side hee perswadeth his disciples that hee might well ynough doe so for that there was no lawe to force him to take such a parson for his lawfull minister neither to ioyne with him in the prayers and Sacraments Thus hath hee first manifestly mocked authoritie so as that place of Iude which hee had wrongfully writhen towardes mee returneth nowe againe with full force vppon his owne heade And secondly hee apparantly sheweth that hee continueth his olde course of seducing the seelie sheepe euen as heretofore In summe if all that is here sayde touching his subscription bee melted together as in one lumpe where shall wee find a more perfect image of a pestilent schismaticke and one more voide of all conscience than is this Browne though Rome it selfe be raked through to find him Howe well doe these notes which were long agoe obserued to be the verie properties of all heretikes agree with this mans maners namely to shrinke from their doctrines as ashamed when they are pressed with them and neuerthelesse still vnderhande to glorie in teaching such things Againe as an other testifieth It is not ynough to bee heretikes vnlesse they bee also hypocrites These are they that come in sheepes clothing Sheepe they are in shew foxes for craft but wolues in act and crueltie Neither is it in price with them to followe vertue but to colour vices as with a certaine painting of vertue To the 108. 14 No part of Church Discipline can bee wanting but the Church doeth straight way goe to ruine thereby Againe there may be a true Church of GOD without the Presbiterie These two axiomes will not well agree as the Admonition supposeth Browne sent me glewe which he sayde was strong ynough to holde them together I haue tryed it and it will
beseech you by the mercies of God to haue a due consideration A seconde Answere or Reioynder to Brownes replie for the doubts and obiections of his Disciple WHat desire I haue W. F. to withdrawe you from errour and to bring you to the trueth as the Lorde who searcheth the heart knoweth at full so no man that seeeth these my willing labours taken in the behalfe thereof can with any charitie doubt of it And though I haue nowe lesse hope than I had seeing you without all iudgement to discerne the spirit of error and arrogancie which is so nakedly seene in the framer of your replie yet as by the testimonie of two or three witnesses so shal my loue of your saluation be made manifest by this my comming againe vnto you So much therefore at the least through the goodnesse of God I shall gaine if there come more I shall receyue it as aduantage praise his most holy name for all Beare with mee if I followe not your teachers humour in aunswering for if there were nothing else my time is more precious vnto me 1 Vpon my grant that in our Churches we cannot redresse faults so fully as is to be wished he gathereth six heresies for errours soundeth not full inough in his lauish mouth but because they are without all demonstration no man is bound to beleeue him 2 Whereas you saide The lawe compelleth all to communicate that are aboue sixtene yeeres olde I answered The lawe intendeth a worthines yelded this reason because it prouideth censures for the vnworthie Your leader saith I falsifie the question the lawes For the question let that be iudged by others And in that he chargeth the lawes to enforce a confuse mingling with what face can he do it If hee remember the 2.3.4 pages of that brainlesse answere to master Cartwrights letter where amongest others of like nature are these wordes Wee knowe that the lawes doe punish all outward grosse wickednesse or suffer it to be punished as namely idolatrie c. and if there bee any vice vnpunishable by the law yet the lawes doe suffer either the Church or euerie householder or gouernour to correct so it be not against lawe such as are vnder their charge Againe Also for the discipline in gathering the worthie from the vnworthie the lawe appointeth it and giueth leaue to make exception both in publique iudgement and in Churches against vnworthie persons as against drunkennesse fightings murther adulteries stealth slanders c. and yet also doe giue libertie to the Church to vse their owne discipline Let him nowe looke who is his aduersarie in this Whereas I bid you informe vs of inordinate walkers that we may remoue them he sayth We must first haue an order of discipline established If hee meane by an order of discipline some kinde of order of discipline to debarre the vnworthie then it cannot be denied but we haue an order for it as the answerer to maister Cartwright in the wordes afore rehearsed in behalfe of the lawes acknowledgeth if he would not bee so shortly taken but haue his wordes vnderstood of that onely ordering of discipline which the worde of God setteth out then as I reuerence that for the onely and vnchangeable ordinance of the almightie so finde I none a greater aduersarie thereunto than he nay than you all if you all be of that iudgement hee is that wrote your replye For besides other thinges that I will not nowe enter into whereas I acknowledge that in our Church though wee haue some abilitie to withstand open prophanations yet that the gouerning by an Eldership is far to be preferred for the expectation of a happie successe he openeth his mouth as an enemie but with much falshoode and folly First hee sayth I make an Eldershippe a part of your seconde point leauing out discipline I sayde before wee haue vse of the discipline to remooue the inordinate onely this I graunted withall that if you should obiect that wee haue not so good vse of it as if it were ordered by an Eldershippe my selfe woulde ioyne with you in that poynt Nowe if hee had but so good vse of his vnderstanding as wee haue of this discipline he would haue discerned that I added this only to preuent such an obiection from you and not that I thrust it into your second poynt as to make it a part thereof Secondly hee sayth by Elders we meane Aldermen as that we seeke no other but by ciuill power and authoritie to force the vnruly Whereunto if I shoulde answere hee was madde I should fauour him much in mouing pitie for him and if it be not taken so both friends and enemies must needes set a harder sentence vppon him Againe he taketh it not necessary but superstitious to stand vppon the choosing of Elders as the state of our Church nowe standeth and in stead thereof hee supplyeth that the forward of euery Parish put forth themselues by visiting counsailing withdrawing comforting c. to performe the busines Wherin he gratifieth the enemies of discipline with this that the fourme of Church gouernement is changeable Besides let the wise consider whither that bee not apparantly a confused course wherein euery one that lusteth may gouerne Hee supposeth considering the times that an agreement were better than a choise As though there can bee obedience and so agreement where those that gouerne are not chosen His consideration of the times warranteth no man to runne before hee bee called Hee giueth another reason that rather God may haue the praise in prouoking and calling them then man in choosing them This I perceiue is Brownes Anarchie and thus I ouerthrowe it Whatsoeuer course of obedience tendeth more or rather to the praise of God then another that same is alwayes to bee preferred before the other But hee saith that for men to put forth themselues to execute discipline tendeth rather to the praise of God then if they be chosen Therefore we must conclude if hee say true that to offer our selues is alwaies to bee preferred in this case before choosing and so it shall follow by consequence that the order of ordayning set downe by the spirit of God is not the best course of all others Also when as it is hereby intended that the forwarde professors vppon their owne inward motions and feelings shall thus take vpon them to bee Elders and the others must so acknowledge them it followeth thereuppon connexiuely that these inward motions and feelings must be holden warrant inough both for them-selues to take vppon them Church-callings as also to bind other mens consciences to obey them For if this testimonie of their feeling bee not an authenticall warrant to the conscience how shall either parties walke in faith So then if this bee not to leade vs into the lake of Anabaptisticall reuelations I knowe not what can bee But hee proceedeth saying As for the names of Elders and other ceremonies in ordeyning seeing they
But I say vnto you marke it well as it lyeth you vppon for in your standing vppon this poynt that particular members of a Church may depart or refraine from the Lordes table if vnworthy ones remaine there vnseparated it doeth necessarily fall out thereupon that eyther you holde that particular members may forsake a Church of God which now I perceiue your leader renoūceth or else that the couenant of a Church is broken before God by the failing of any necessary poynt in practise Which implying the couenant to bee helde by woorkes is the high way to Popery This thing haue I noted once or twise before And here nowe also the thirde time the reader may see that I am not ouer hastie to take him at such aduantage But withal I trust there appeareth good hope of victory to this side when as the aduersary after much labour to keepe the aduantage thereof hath nowe flatly forsaken one of his holdes and that which remaineth for him to flee vnto is able to kill him with the stench thereof though no man should pursue him any further 24 He foloweth the comparisō of mēbers of a natural body with the members of a Church And first hee saith that as euery particular mēber of a body may shake of the rotten and yet not forsake the bodie so may euerie particular member of a Church This is plaine beggerie for no particular member of a bodie can doe that of it selfe and if it could his conclusion therby should make but for sole excommunication His seconde comparison is thus propounded applied As the members of a natural bodie refuse to vse the seruice of the rotten ones so ought the members of a spirituall bodie refuse to communicate in the sacraments with such Euery man that considereth what I haue said seeth that he fighteth here with his shadow and not with me for I imploy no such members in any seruice But to cleare his eyes it may bee God shall make this a medicine when he shal giue him to meditate that it is quite contrarie to his ordinance in the naturall bodie for the whole members to forsake their places or to refuse to nourish themselues in the vnitie of their bodie because of some rotten ones that doe indaunger them Neither haue his other comparings any more worthie thing against me though too much to bewray his owne vnlearnednesse For whereas he esteemeth that euerie member of a natural bodie withholdeth and keepeth away blood and nourishment from the rotten it is manifest that hee is as ignorant in naturall things as in diuine For blood commeth plentifully inough to rotten members so long as they are vnseparated onely it nourisheth them not as of olde but is peruerted by them to the increase of their rottennesse Let him follow this veine no longer if hee haue any wit in his head 25 After this he beareth you in hand that hee fully satisfieth a question which I should be readie to make in these or such like wordes VVhat if the Church or the rest of the bodie will not withdrawe themselues from that dead and rotten member neither will cast it off what shall one member doe To this he answereth First That if one member doe cast it off the rest will not be angrie Which is the same begging he vsed euen now Secondly that it is a token the rest of the members are not so liuely c. which is a verie colde answer If he had saide it is a token the rest of the members are dead with it so as you may safely depart from them hee had satisfied the question This he would haue you to vnderstand but he durst not vtter it For it is the fashion of an heretique to keepe more poison in his heart than he vttereth with his mouth 26 The first part of his next point is beggerly That a member cannot forsake one congregation of Christ goe to another without guilt of schisme and forsaking the bodie of Christ I prooued in my first answere which yet remayneth vntouched by him His obiection that one Congregation is not the whole Church of Christ c. is an vnlearned cauill For euery particular Church touching the knitting together of the members partaking with Christ the head through that same bodily vnitie is in the same sort to bee considered as the whole Church and we can no more forsake a particular Church and yet bee of the whole than can a finger forsake his hand and yet be of the bodie Take heede therefore vnto your selfe braunches broken off doe shortly wither and after that become fit for nothing but for the fire 27 His obiection of forsaking the Popish Church I haue answered before The next is a pretie dialogue of woordes which because hee made it for his owne recreation I will not hinder him His oppositions are but his owne vnprooued and vnsauerie suppositions How truly he chargeth me therein with diuerse iniquities let the godlie consider my writing and so iudge Whereas he soweth the seedes of newe questions to drawe in other discourses I am not one for his toothe to nourishe them 28 He would make you beleeue that hee prooueth our Church a monstrous and false bodie so that you may hold it safe to forsake vs and this he will do out of mine own words because forsooth I confesse it may haue vnsound corrupt members vnseparated yea which we are not able to separate By which reason if you haue a fellō on your finger which causeth mortification therein if either you wil not or cannot get it cut off you are therby a monstrous false body But here ought to be no question of deformitie but of the being of a church Then he chargeth me to say that it may be a church of God though it haue the discipline and gouernement of Antichrist in stead of Christs and that I confesse we haue offices rites orders c. after the popish institution I know what I haue said he is readie to snatch before any thing fal to the ground But nowe vpon good cause of the question this I answere freely It may be a true Church of God though therein diuerse rites be corruptly instituted and the censures and offices popishly caried and ordered If you doubt that I will prooue it thus VVhatsoeuer hath the essentiall partes of a Church of God the same must needes be confessed to be a Church of God But a Church of such gouernement and orders may haue the essentiall parts of a Church of God Therefore a Church of such gouernement and orders may be a true Church of God The first part no man that hath vnderstanding can doubt of The seconde is also manifest thus that whereas there are but two essentiall partes of any thing to witte matter and fourme the matter of a Church is Christ the heade-corner stone and a people who are as liuing stones to bee layde vpon him the fourme is the comming vnto