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or_o else_o it_o be_v as_o well_o sacrilege_n or_o stealth_n take_v it_o from_o the_o right_a owner_n if_o the_o lord_n have_v not_o give_v they_o this_o honour_n as_o it_o be_v to_o deny_v it_o or_o take_v it_o from_o they_o if_o the_o lord_n have_v give_v it_o to_o they_o last_o and_o so_o you_o will_v have_v do_v with_o i_o you_o conclude_v it_o be_v not_o every_o place_n or_o order_n in_o the_o church_n that_o give_v power_n to_o receive_v the_o ordinance_n much_o less_o power_n themselves_o to_o to_o dispense_v ordinance_n as_o child_n and_o woman_n etc._n etc._n this_o be_v very_o true_a yet_o you_o assert_v before_o every_o member_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n have_v a_o calling_n to_o put_v forth_o some_o act_n of_o power_n in_o his_o own_o church_n etc._n etc._n then_o say_v i_o woman_n and_o child_n for_o they_o be_v member_n too_o yea_o we_o think_v except_o but_o that_o of_o speak_v in_o the_o church_n 1_o cor._n 14.34_o 1_o tim._n 2.11_o 12._o express_o forbid_v and_o 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loss_n of_o time_n and_o labour_n to_o argue_v this_o question_n with_o i_o do_v you_o mean_v your_o answer_n will_v be_v so_o unsatisfy_v as_o the_o former_a now_o will_v appear_v to_o be_v as_o that_o the_o time_n and_o labour_n will_v be_v ill_o spend_v your_o reader_n will_v think_v so_o if_o you_o answer_v no_o better_o to_o that_o remain_a then_o to_o what_o be_v go_v before_o and_o why_o do_v you_o say_v this_o question_n as_o if_o there_o be_v no_o more_o betwixt_o we_o then_o this_o but_o i_o most_o of_o all_o admire_v why_o you_o shall_v say_v my_o exception_n be_v but_o collection_n out_o of_o the_o writing_n of_o other_o i_o believe_v the_o reader_n will_v find_v my_o exception_n be_v collection_n of_o contradiction_n out_o of_o your_o own_o writing_n more_o than_o out_o
of_o other_o and_o i_o can_v sincere_o profess_v i_o consult_v with_o none_o or_o very_o few_o book_n of_o this_o controversy_n but_o compare_v your_o book_n one_o with_o another_o my_o own_o reason_n and_o judgement_n suggest_v to_o i_o those_o contradiction_n in_o they_o that_o leave_v i_o altogether_o unsatisfy_a in_o your_o way_n and_o at_o this_o day_n i_o be_o leave_v so_o still_o if_o not_o more_o confirm_v that_o the_o independent_a way_n be_v not_o the_o way_n of_o god_n that_o be_v so_o inconsistent_a with_o the_o scripture_n and_o with_o itself_o that_o other_o have_v more_o elaborate_o dispute_v this_o cause_n i_o shall_v easy_o yield_v but_o i_o think_v i_o may_v true_o say_v without_o vanity_n none_o have_v more_o distinct_o discover_v the_o weakness_n of_o your_o proof_n and_o your_o contradiction_n to_o yourselves_o in_o hold_v out_o your_o way_n than_o i_o have_v do_v nor_o be_o i_o at_o all_o trouble_a that_o you_o choose_v rather_o to_o consider_v what_o have_v be_v write_v by_o learned_a and_o reverend_a m._n rutherford_n and_o m._n baily_n though_o you_o sere_a m._n baily_n as_o you_o do_v i_o never_o name_v he_o more_o in_o all_o your_o follow_a discourse_n have_v you_o but_o make_v good_a your_o promise_n to_o consider_v also_o what_o i_o have_v say_v to_o vindicate_v yourself_o from_o your_o contradiction_n and_o to_o clear_v the_o truth_n in_o question_n but_o see_v you_o be_v please_v so_o to_o neglect_v i_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o be_v trouble_v if_o i_o conceive_v it_o loss_n of_o time_n and_o labour_n to_o follow_v you_o any_o further_o and_o consider_v what_o learned_a and_o reverend_a m._n hooker_n have_v elaborate_o write_v in_o this_o controversy_n only_o give_v i_o leave_v to_o present_v you_o with_o a_o scheme_n of_o your_o remain_a contradiction_n or_o contrariety_n at_o least_o note_v in_o vind._n clau._n out_o of_o your_o own_o book_n and_o then_o leave_v you_o to_o your_o choice_n whether_o you_o will_v reconcile_v they_o or_o confess_v they_o a_o scheme_n of_o contradiction_n and_o contrariety_n in_o the_o independent_a way_n 1._o the_o key_n be_v give_v to_o peter_n as_o a_o apostle_n as_o a_o elder_a and_o as_o a_o believer_n so_o the_o sense_n most_o fill_v the_o key_n pag._n 4._o it_o appear_v that_o christ_n give_v the_o key_n to_o the_o fraternity_n with_o the_o presbytery_n ib._n see_v also_o the_o way_n clear_v par_fw-fr 2._o pag._n 22._o 1._o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n be_v give_v to_o peter_n not_o as_o a_o apostle_n nor_o as_o as_o elder_n but_o as_o a_o profess_a believer_n the_o way_n pag._n 27._o 1._o peter_n receive_v noâ—_n the_o key_n mere_o as_o a_o believer_n but_o as_o a_o believe_v public_o profess_v hiâ—_n faith_n etc._n etc._n the_o way_n clear_v par_fw-fr 2._o f._n 39_o not_o believer_n as_o believer_n but_o as_o believer_n covenant_v and_o fit_o capable_a according_a to_o christ_n appointment_n m._n hooker_n suru._n par_fw-fr 1._o p._n 203._o 2._o the_o key_n be_v give_v to_o the_o church_n of_o believer_n the_o way_n p._n 1._o that_o be_v a_o combination_n of_o faithful_a man_n as_o m._n hooker_n 2._o the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n belong_v to_o all_o the_o faithful_a whether_o join_v to_o any_o particular_a church_n or_o no._n the_o key_n pag._n 11._o 2._o the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n be_v give_v not_o only_o to_o the_o church_n but_o to_o some_o before_o they_o enteâ—_n into_o the_o church_n thâ—_n key_n p._n 11._o 3._o the_o key_n of_o order_n be_v common_a to_o all_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n keys_n p._n 8._o then_o say_v we_o to_o woman_n and_o child_n 3._o it_o be_v not_o every_o place_n or_o order_n in_o the_o church_n that_o give_v power_n to_o receive_v ordinance_n much_o less_o to_o dispense_v they_o as_o child_n and_o woman_n way_n clear_v par_fw-fr 2._o pag._n 19_o  _fw-fr 4._o ordination_n be_v a_o work_n of_o rule_n the_o way_n p._n 49._o ordination_n and_o jurisdiction_n both_o act_n of_o rule_n pertain_v indifferent_o to_o all_o the_o presbyser_n ib._n 49._o 4._o as_o for_o election_n and_o ordination_n of_o officer_n etc._n etc._n these_o thing_n they_o the_o brethren_n may_v do_v if_o need_v be_v without_o officer_n the_o way_n p._n 45._o 101._o 4._o ordination_n be_v not_o a_o act_n of_o supreme_a jurisdidiction_n but_o of_o order_n rather_o in_o h._n survey_v part_n 2.75_o 5._o the_o key_n of_o authority_n or_o rule_n be_v commit_v to_o the_o elder_n of_o the_o church_n and_o so_o the_o act_n of_o rule_n be_v the_o proper_a act_n of_o their_o office_n the_o key_n p._n 20._o the_o people_n discern_v and_o approve_v the_o justice_n of_o the_o censure_n give_v consent_n and_o obedience_n to_o the_o will_n and_o rule_n of_o christ_n the_o key_n pag._n 15._o 37._o 41._o the_o brethren_n stand_v in_o a_o order_n even_o a_o orderly_a subjection_n according_a to_o the_o order_n of_o the_o gospel_n p._n 11._o 5._o in_o case_n the_o officer_n do_v err_v and_o commit_v offence_n they_o shall_v be_v govern_v by_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o the_o brethren_n the_o way_n pag._n 100_o the_o church_n exercise_v several_a act_n of_o authority_n over_o the_o elder_n the_o way_n p._n 101._o the_o people_n have_v some_o stock_n of_o power_n and_o authority_n in_o government_n of_o the_o church_n the_o key_n pag._n 36._o they_o rule_v the_o church_n by_o appoint_v their_o own_o officer_n ib._n p._n 16._o  _fw-fr 6._o excommunication_n be_v one_o of_o the_o high_a act_n of_o rule_n and_o therefore_o can_v be_v perform_v but_o by_o some_o ruler_n the_o key_n p._n 16._o the_o church_n can_v excommunicate_v the_o whole_a presbytery_n because_o they_o have_v not_o receive_v from_o christ_n a_o office_n of_o rule_n without_o their_o officer_n ibid._n no_o act_n of_o the_o people_n power_n do_v proper_o bind_v unless_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o presbytery_n join_v with_o it_o ibid._n 36._o 6._o if_o all_o their_o officer_n be_v sound_a culpable_a either_o in_o heretical_a doctrine_n or_o scandalous_a crime_n the_o church_n have_v lawful_a authority_n to_o proceed_v to_o censure_v of_o they_o all_o the_o way_n p._n 45._o in_o case_n of_o offence_n give_v by_o a_o elder_a or_o whole_a eldership_n together_o the_o church_n have_v authority_n to_o require_v satisfaction_n and_o if_o they_o give_v it_o not_o to_o proceed_v to_o censure_v ibid._n p._n 101._o 6._o excommunication_n be_v not_o a_o act_n of_o power_n of_o office_n but_o of_o judgement_n nor_o a_o act_n of_o high_a rule_n but_o of_o supreme_a judgement_n seat_v in_o the_o fraternity_n survey_v par_fw-fr 3._o p._n 45._o as_o a_o church_n of_o brethren_n can_v proceed_v to_o any_o public_a censure_n without_o elder_n so_o nor_o the_o elder_n without_o concurrence_n of_o the_o people_n etc._n etc._n pref._n to_o the_o key_n pag._n 4._o 7._o it_o be_v a_o sacrilegious_a breach_n of_o order_n that_o commissary_n and_o chancellor_n want_v the_o key_n of_o order_n no_o minister_n have_v be_v invest_v with_o jurisdiction_n yea_o and_o more_o than_o ministerial_a authority_n above_o those_o elder_n who_o labour_n in_o the_o word_n and_o doctrine_n the_o key_n p_o 6._o 7._o there_o be_v a_o key_n of_o power_n give_v to_o the_o church_n with_o the_o elder_n as_o to_o open_v a_o door_n of_o entrance_n to_o the_o minister_n call_v so_o to_o shut_v the_o door_n of_o entrance_n against_o they_o in_o some_o case_n etc._n etc._n the_o key_n pag._n 9_o yea_o to_o censure_v all_o their_o elder_n without_o elder_n the_o way_n p._n 45._o etc._n etc._n as_o afore_o  _fw-fr 8._o we_o be_v far_o from_o allow_v that_o sacrilegious_a usurpation_n of_o the_o minister_n office_n practise_v in_o some_o place_n that_o private_a christian_n ordinary_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o preach_v the_o gospel_n public_o the_o key_n pag._n 6._o 8._o this_o be_v ordinary_o practise_v in_o old_a england_n and_o allow_v by_o the_o independent_a brethren_n yea_o they_o be_v but_o in_o the_o notion_n of_o gift_a brethren_n no_o minister_n to_o other_o congregation_n do_v it_o ordinary_o themselves_o  _fw-fr 9_o a_o particular_a church_n of_o saint_n profess_v the_o faith_n that_o be_v member_n without_o officer_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o all_o the_o church_n office_n with_o all_o their_o spiritual_a gift_n and_o power_n the_o key_n p._n 31._o 9_o as_o the_o key_n of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n be_v divers_a so_o be_v the_o subject_n to_o who_o they_o be_v commit_v divers_a the_o key_n p._n 11._o the_o apostle_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o apostolical_a power_n ib._n p._n 32._o a_o synod_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o that_o power_n whereby_o error_n be_v convince_v and_o condemn_v etc._n etc._n ib._n p._n 47._o 9_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n belong_v first_o to_o a_o congregation_n of_o covenant_a believer_n suru._n
have_v any_o virtual_a power_n to_o this_o or_o that_o act_n but_o he_o have_v also_o a_o formal_a power_n to_o do_v such_o a_o act_n in_o that_o case_n of_o necessity_n but_o i_o assume_v the_o brethren_n in_o a_o case_n of_o necessity_n say_v you_o have_v a_o virtual_a power_n to_o ordain_v their_o officer_n who_o can_v do_v those_o act_n administer_v sacrament_n etc._n etc._n therefore_o in_o that_o necessity_n when_o they_o have_v no_o officer_n they_o have_v a_o formal_a power_n to_o administer_v sacrament_n nor_o can_v i_o see_v any_o reason_n why_o those_o that_o may_v ordain_v officer_n and_o administer_v censure_n without_o officer_n may_v not_o also_o administer_v sacrament_n for_o to_o administer_v sacrament_n be_v one_o of_o the_o low_a act_n of_o a_o minister_n certain_o less_o than_o preach_v christ_n send_v i_o not_o to_o baptize_v but_o to_o preach_v the_o gospel_n 81._o par._n â—_o pag._n 81._o q._n d._n that_o be_v the_o chief_a part_n of_o his_o errand_n say_v m._n hooker_n and_o excommunication_n and_o so_o admission_n of_o officer_n by_o election_n be_v one_o of_o the_o high_a act_n of_o rule_n say_v you_o but_o you_o allow_v your_o brethren_n to_o preach_v and_o to_o elect_v and_o cast_v out_o officer_n therefore_o they_o may_v as_o well_o if_o not_o better_o be_v allow_v to_o administer_v sacrament_n which_o yet_o you_o do_v deny_v how_o independent_a indeed_o be_v your_o way_n how_o inconsistent_a your_o doctrine_n i_o wish_v you_o will_v at_o last_o consider_v it_o obj._n 5_o i_o say_v in_o the_o five_o place_n the_o church_n to_o which_o the_o key_n be_v give_v be_v say_v by_o you_o to_o be_v such_o as_o do_v all_o of_o they_o meet_v in_o one_o place_n for_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n but_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n be_v not_o to_o be_v find_v much_o less_o administer_v in_o a_o church_n of_o believer_n without_o officer_n therefore_o to_o this_o you_o answer_v thus_o the_o truth_n be_v though_o the_o ordinance_n may_v not_o all_o of_o they_o be_v administer_v in_o a_o church_n of_o believer_n without_o officer_n as_o authoritative_a dispense_n of_o the_o word_n and_o censure_n and_o ministration_n of_o sacrament_n yet_o some_o ordinance_n may_v be_v find_v and_o administer_v there_o but_o sir_n 1._o do_v not_o you_o intend_v it_o of_o all_o ordinance_n that_o they_o may_v and_o must_v be_v administer_v in_o a_o church_n of_o believer_n do_v you_o not_o define_v a_o church_n to_o be_v a_o company_n of_o believer_n meet_v together_o to_o enjoy_v all_o ordinance_n 2._o i_o say_v all_z the_o ordinance_n be_v not_o to_o be_v find_v in_o a_o church_n of_o believer_n without_o officer_n you_o first_o take_v no_o notice_n of_o that_o but_o say_v though_o all_o may_v not_o be_v administer_v there_o and_o then_o confess_v some_o of_o they_o can_v be_v find_v and_o administer_v there_o sure_o those_o that_o can_v be_v find_v there_o as_o some_o can_v can_v be_v administer_v there_o but_o say_v i_o in_o that_o church_n to_o which_o the_o key_n be_v give_v all_o ordinance_n which_o be_v the_o key_n may_v be_v find_v and_o administer_v therefore_o that_o church_n and_o you_o be_v not_o the_o same_o 3._o what_o be_v those_o some_o ordinance_n which_o may_v be_v find_v there_o 1._o two_o or_o three_o to_o meet_v together_o and_o pray_v and_o admonish_v one_o another_o etc._n etc._n but_o be_v two_o or_o three_o a_o church_n you_o say_v somewhere_o 7._o be_v the_o least_o number_n and_o may_v not_o any_o two_o or_o three_o believer_n not_o in_o your_o church-order_n no_o member_n of_o any_o particular_a church_n meet_v and_o pray_v &_o c_o have_v they_o then_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n be_v not_o read_v of_o the_o word_n also_o a_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n and_o sing_v of_o psalm_n etc._n etc._n be_v these_o also_o part_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n 2._o it_o be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n to_o elect_v officer_n for_o this_o be_v the_o power_n and_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n of_o brethren_n let_v i_o use_v your_o own_o word_n to_o i_o in_o this_o paragraph_n this_o latter_a proposition_n be_v leave_v naked_a and_o unguarded_a without_o proof_n and_o be_v but_o a_o ipse_fw-la dixit_fw-la etc._n etc._n for_o you_o know_v we_o deny_v it_o and_o suppose_v those_o be_v ordinance_n and_o part_n of_o tho_o power_n of_o the_o key_n yet_o they_o be_v not_o the_o ordinance_n that_o i_o intend_v viz._n administration_n of_o sacrament_n and_o censure_n these_o you_o have_v confess_v though_o you_o again_o deny_v it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v find_v or_o administer_v in_o a_o church_n without_o officer_n there_o they_o be_v not_o capable_a of_o administration_n oâ—_n s_o crament_n without_o offi_n p_o 20_o there_o the_o truth_n be_v your_o own_o word_n the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n may_v not_o all_o of_o they_o be_v administer_v in_o a_o church_n without_o officer_n as_o authoritative_a dispense_n of_o the_o word_n and_o censure_n and_o ministration_n of_o sacrament_n what_o need_v i_o prove_v my_o latter_a proposition_n when_o you_o confess_v it_o but_o you_o have_v a_o help_n for_o this_o if_o a_o church_n of_o believer_n may_v supply_v themselves_o with_o officer_n when_o they_o want_v they_o which_o you_o know_v we_o deny_v unless_o you_o mean_v they_o may_v procure_v they_o elsewhere_o and_o if_o officer_n and_o brethren_n have_v all_o ordinary_a church-power_n which_o we_o also_o deny_v to_o the_o brethren_n and_o so_o all_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v ordinary_o administer_v find_v there_o than_o what_o hinder_v but_o that_o a_o church_n of_o believer_n have_v in_o it_o as_o some_o ordinance_n formal_o so_o all_o radical_o and_o virtual_o and_o the_o same_o administer_v and_o administrable_a among_o they_o this_o discourse_n be_v a_o mere_a beg_n of_o the_o question_n first_o and_o then_o a_o vary_a of_o it_o a_o beg_n in_o that_o you_o take_v for_o grant_v that_o the_o brethren_n have_v a_o power_n in_o the_o key_n either_o formal_o or_o radical_o and_o that_o because_o they_o have_v a_o power_n to_o elect_v their_o own_o officer_n if_o by_o election_n you_o mean_v the_o creation_n or_o make_v of_o officer_n we_o deny_v then_o any_o such_o power_n if_o you_o mean_v a_o designation_n or_o choice_n of_o a_o fit_a person_n to_o be_v ordain_v by_o other_o officer_n that_o be_v no_o power_n of_o the_o key_n which_o yourself_o say_v be_v the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n 2._o the_o key_n p._n 2._o as_o the_o preach_n of_o the_o word_n and_o administer_a of_o the_o seal_n and_o censure_n you_o also_o vary_v the_o question_n by_o put_v in_o two_o word_n first_o ordinary_o administer_v whenas_o i_o speak_v of_o all_o ordinance_n ordinary_a as_o those_o mention_v or_o extraordinary_a as_o synod_n which_o yourself_o acknowledge_v a_o ordinance_n of_o god_n and_o i_o think_v will_v not_o say_v it_o may_v be_v administer_v in_o a_o particular_a church_n of_o believer_n without_o or_o with_o officer_n second_o you_o shuffle_v in_o another_o word_n administrable_a among_o they_o whereas_o the_o question_n be_v of_o ordinance_n administer_v they_o be_v not_o all_o to_o be_v find_v much_o less_o administer_v in_o such_o a_o church_n but_o all_o ordinance_n ordinary_a and_o extraordinary_a be_v both_o administrable_a and_o administer_v in_o the_o church_n to_o which_o the_o key_n be_v give_v therefore_o that_o and_o you_o be_v not_o the_o same_o and_o that_o and_o not_o you_o be_v understand_v in_o that_o text._n i_o say_v further_o if_o the_o key_n be_v commit_v to_o the_o church_n obj._n 6_o the_o particular_a congregation_n you_o must_v mean_v it_o either_o objectiuè_n for_o the_o use_n of_o the_o church_n but_o that_o be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n or_o subjectiué_fw-fr and_o then_o you_o fall_v into_o the_o extreme_a of_o brownist_n etc._n etc._n to_o this_o you_o answer_v i_o mean_v it_o indeed_o subjectiuè_a though_o not_o exclude_v objectiuè_n the_o particular_a church_n receive_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n both_o subjectiuè_n to_o itself_o and_o objectiuè_fw-la for_o itself_o but_o i_o reply_v and_o ask_v what_o you_o mean_v by_o subjectiuè_n to_o itself_o and_o of_o what_o church_n you_o intend_v it_o whether_o entitive_a as_o you_o speak_v consist_v only_o of_o believer_n without_o officer_n or_o political_a with_o officer_n if_o you_o mean_v that_o the_o church_n entitive_a of_o believer_n without_o officer_n be_v the_o subject_n of_o the_o key_n than_o they_o have_v not_o only_o virtual_o but_o also_o formal_o receive_v the_o key_n and_o may_v administer_v all_o ordinance_n without_o officer_n which_o yet_o you_o deny_v for_o peter_n here_o receive_v they_o all_o formal_o and_o you_o say_v as_o a_o believer_n then_o say_v i_o believer_n not_o only_o in_o a_o church_n joint_o but_o even_o single_o
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be_v demonstrate_v in_o my_o vind._o clau._n in_o answer_n to_o that_o preface_n and_o in_o the_o tract_n itself_o but_o you_o take_v no_o notice_n of_o it_o next_o let_v your_o own_o book_n speak_v wherein_o you_o often_o give_v the_o brethren_n without_o officer_n power_n to_o ordain_v officer_n and_o to_o censure_v they_o all_o without_o officer_n which_o if_o they_o be_v not_o the_o high_a act_n of_o rule_n and_o so_o the_o brethren_n have_v the_o great_a share_n in_o the_o government_n i_o shall_v still_o profess_v my_o ignorance_n in_o this_o controversy_n and_o upon_o my_o observation_n you_o deny_v they_o power_n in_o nothing_o but_o administration_n of_o sacrament_n you_o allow_v they_o power_n in_o jurisdiction_n by_o give_v they_o power_n in_o admission_n and_o ejection_n of_o member_n and_o officer_n you_o allow_v they_o liberty_n in_o preach_v the_o word_n only_o not_o ordinary_o nor_o so_o authoritative_o as_o to_o pastor_n or_o teacher_n what_o can_v you_o give_v they_o 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