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A65389 A further discovery of that generation of men called Qvakers by way of reply to an answer of James Nayler to The perfect Pharisee : wherein is more fully layd open their blasphemies, notorious equivocations, lyings, wrestings of the Scripture, raylings and other detestable principles and practices ... / published for the building up of the perseverance of the saints till they come to the end of their faith, even the salvation of their soules. Weld, Thomas, 1590?-1662. 1654 (1654) Wing W1268; ESTC R27879 78,750 103

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Scriptures not the Word of God but a Declaration of the conditions of them that spoke them This he denyeth not we proved it by five testimonies He answers by one Scripture grossely perverted and two others ignorantly applyed but gives no answer to many Scripture arguments against it 14 Spirits not to be tryed by Scripture This we proved by three testimonies none of which nor the Position is denyed but goes about to prove it and falls a rayling 15. No sence meaning or exposition to be given or studying of Scripture This we proved in foure testimonies he confesseth goes about to prove it but answers not a word to fourteen evident Scriptures but falls a rayling grossely 16. They cry downe Baptisme and the Lords Supper as types and shadowes For this we gave foure proofes which he denyed not and we further prove it He shuffles from Baptisme in generall to the businesse of Infant Baptisme and falls a rayling 17. No mediate cull to the Ministry Denies not the Proof but falls miserably a rayling as if he would powr out his gall upon us As for the rest of his Reply to what we charged upon them as their Principles and Practises there is such palpable shufflings such miserable weakenesse and such horrible rayling as that we should not have medled with it at all but that we beleeve it is the designe of God to lay more and more open the spirits of these men THis Booke pretending to Answer us is thus subscribed By one whom the World calls Iames Nayler About man being called by names given them by their Parents We are ●ot a little jealous that there lyes a mystery of iniquity in that very stile and expression For first God himselfe whom to thinke to follow any sinfull expression or custome were no lesse then blasphemous calls men by their Names of distinction given by Men. Gen. 22.11 God said unto him Abraham Hannah called her sonne Samuel 1 Sam. 1.20 She called his name Samuel c. and afterwards when the Lord appeared to him to call him out to the worke of the Priest-hood chap. 3.4 and 6. and 8. verses The Lord called Samuel and called him againe so the second and third time here its evident that God himselfe calls him by the Name that his Mother gave him Acts 9.4 there Iesus Christ from Heaven calls him Saul Saul a Name given him before his conversion Christ when upon Earth calls his Disciples by the Names given them at their Circumcision as Philip Iohn Simon sonne of Ionas c. The Apostles doe so constantly as Festus Agrippa Gaius Aristarchus c. and this without such a mysterious preamble as one wh●● the World calls Festus Agrippa c. You see how these pretend●r to Scripture depart from Scripture as if they would include God and Christ under the carnall observations of the World or else teach them to speake 2. It is apparant That these very men doe constantly call themselves by these Names as Iames Nayler doth in an Epistle at the end of Farneworths Booke George Fox in a Pamphlet lately Printed and the very men of their Generation call them so without any such preamble The mystery of ●●e 〈…〉 ●riting t●emselve such w●o the World c●ll so and so 3. But shall we tell you where the mystery lyes We are satisfied that this expression is meerly to cloake their pretence to an equality with God Our reason is evident For in this very Answer of Naylers pag 4. where he relates Fo●es his evad●ng of the charge against him that he said He was equall with God Nayler thus hints that Fox being asked whether he spake this of George Fox as he was a creature To this he answered I deny George Fox he is dust and must be dust but I and my Father are one Is not this as plaine as the Sunne that he therefore denyes George Fox that he may deny his being a creature one that must returne to dust that so he may set up and assert his onenesse with God Compare but this with that usuall expression of theirs in their Books Whose name in the flesh is James Nayler Whose name in the flesh is Iohn Audland c. and it will be more apparent But more of this you have in our Answer to their Reply to the first Article In the Epistle in the said Answer Written by A. P. he calls us About the word Priest the Priests of the North a word on purpose given us to our reproach Surely their pretended meeknesse should have taught them other expressions though truely we finde and the Reader may even in this their answer finde more cursed rayling then we receive from the worst of men yet our suffering in that kinde from them also is not small But A. P. might know that every Priest was to offer both gifts and sacrifices for sinne and that we waite not upon any such worke and that the Gospel knowes no Chiefe Priest but the Lord Iesus who is a Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek not any Priests at all properly but the Saints metaphorically ●●lled a Royall Priest-hood and shall the stile of the Lord Ies●● and his Saints be a reproach in the mouthes of Quakers He goes on and tells the world That we 〈◊〉 all strangers to that sort of people called Quakers except one A. P. who is none of the least of that sort of people cannot but know that he is too well knowne to all of us Secondly Three of these five also have had cause to know many more of them as M. Taylour Iohn Audland Stubbs Holmes Atkinson Hedgshon Ayry c. and others from whom we suffered disturbance in our publique Ministry and some of these also are pretenders to be eminently sent forth Thirdly Though all of us were strangers to their persons yet are we not strangers to them in their writings and so if it be possible to know them by their Papers which they industriously scatter up and downe we know them fully But whither tends this aspersion that they are strangers to all of us save one but to make the world beleeve that we have taken up these things against them by report But we hope the Reader by this time understands the nakednesse of the slander and the subtilty of A. P. W. C. As for that evidence which one of us gives concerning their principles and practises which A. P. under the name of Reports would insinuate into the people as if they were lyes the Reader shall observe that the most of these evidences are not at all contradicted by Nayler in his Answer but passed over which we take as confessed by him others onely evaded which yet shall appeare to the Reader in the ensuing answer to be either such things as he was an eye or eare witnesse of or shall be fully confirmed by undeniable testimony A. P. goes on and tells the Reader that in this answer What is truth is owned and what is false is