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A19361 A theological dialogue Wherin the Epistle of S. Paul the Apostle to the Romanes is expounded. Gathered and set together out of the readings of Antonie Corranus of Siuille, professor of Diuinitie.; Dialogus theologicus. English Corro, Antonio del, 1527-1591. 1575 (1575) STC 5786; ESTC S116682 133,197 376

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soeuer you yeelde youre selues as seruants to obey his seruāts you are Ioh. 8.34 2 Pe. 1.19 whither you obey sin that leadeth you vnto death or obedience innocency rightuousnesse vvhich lead you vnto lyfe R. If men were cleare of hearing they would receiue imbrace this your most certē strong saying For what is more against resō thā to seke to match ioyne togither things that are most repugnāt as for exāples light darkenes fredome bondage sin grace and that do they surely intēd as oft as they feare not to bynd thēselues to sin vnder pretence of grace liberty Yet must you not thinke all mē to be of this mould For ther are many in this our church of Rome which hauing shaken of the yoke of sin by the benefite of regeneration go forward with all their hart vnto vertue and godlinesse P. And I truely do gyue continuall thankes vnto God and euer shall that wheras you were the bondslaues of sin now you being set free by Gods meere goodnesse and made his children haue hartely obeied the order of his doctrine that is to wit of the Gospel which is deliuered to you to bring you life Now therefore you being set fre from sin do serue the rightuousnes and innocency wherūto god hath called you therfore you must not in any wise yeld to sin R. Certesse a greate number of vs are notably well minded vnto holines such is the singular grace working of Gods spirite in our harts and we hope that he will continually help our infirmityes P. In good sooth to the intent I may haue respect of your frayltie I will deale with you after the maner of men Therfore like as you haue yelded your members the witts of your mynde your powers and your strength as instruments to vnclennesse and levvdnesse to doo levvdly so as you became euery daye woorse than other through the reigning of levvdnesse in you so now yeld you your members if not more lustily yet at leastvvise not more lasyly as instrumentes vnto innocency as instruments to vvorke holinesse and becōme you euery day cleaner frō all vncleanes And thervvithall remēber that at suche tyme as you serued sin you vvere straūgers outlavves to rightuousnes But I besech you vvhat fruite reaped you of the thinges vvhereof you be novv ashamed Surely the ende of them is death R. Euery mans owne fault reproueth himselfe As for myne owne parte you will not beleeue howe ill I am ashamed as oft as my former wretched and lewd lyfe cōmeth to my mind For what shall I tel you how that euen from my verie cradle as sone as I had any wit and discretion according to mine own natural corruptiō naughtines the wylines of the old serpent which called for the lesson that he had once taught Adā by by trusting to the abilitie of mine owne wit I thought my selfe wiser than al the world tooke my selfe almost as a God in all my dooings so as I can not sufficiently maruel that Gods mercifulnesse was so great as to voutsafe to beare with me so patiently when I followed my sinne so long time and so wilfully P. Now then seeing you be both loosed from the bonds of sinne and made the seruaunts of God you shall reape the fruit of your holinesse and euerlasting life abideth for you in the ende For as death is the wages of sinne euen so is euerlasting life I say not a wages or hire for the excellēcie therof is such that we can not compare it yet must we not therefore couet it or care for it the lesse but rather the more inasmuch as it is the more excellent lieth in the power of gods soueraigne bounteousnesse but the free gift of God through Iesus Christ our Lorde and not in any wise for our deserts R. I easily agree with you in this case friend Paule But I do not well vnderstande what you meane by saying that we be loosed from the lawe For in as muche as Gods lawe is holy and righteous and as a certen light whereby to walke in the true way of saluation and was appointed to the Israelites by god for the necessarie vses of the leading a good life so as they mighte beholde the will of the Creator in it as in a cleare glasse how is it possible that the man which is borne anewe shoulde be loosed from that law and that he should thencefoorth liue as without law Or by what meanes can the law seeing it is of god bring foorth euill deedes P. I will make the whole matter playne in as fewe wordes as I can Chap. 7. and in the example of my selfe shew the offices of the law so you cōsider the three states of man namely vnregenerated regenerating and regenerated Nowe that the whole matter might be vnderstoode the better I borowed a similitude from the lawe of wedlocke For these are my words Know ye not brethren I speake of suche as haue skill of the law that the wife is bounde by the lawe of wedlock so long as hir husband liueth Cor. 7.33 For the maried woman is boūd to the man by the Lawe so long as she liueth but if the husbande bee dead shee is loose from the Lawe of the man Therefore I thinke she is to be counted an adultresse if she couple hir selfe with an other man while the husbande is aliue to whom alone she had bound the honest vse of hir body by the law of mariage But if the husbande dye I thinke hir to be lose from the law of mariage so as she is no adultresse thoughe shee couple hirselfe with another R. These things will neuer be denied nother of the Gentiles which are inlightened but by the light of nature nor of the Iewes which haue the law written P. You iudge right Euen after the same maner you hauing obteyned the righteousnesse of Christ are dead in respect of the lawe by the body of Christ on the other side the lawes power of condemning is dead in respect of you so as now you be at libertie to couple your selues to another namely vnto Christ the sacrifice of propiciation for our sinnes who afterwarde was raysed again from the dead Nother haue you now any more to do with the law both bicause you be no more subiect to the curse of it and also most of all bicause that being nowe possessed led by the spirite of god you be not driuen by the comaundements of the law but led by the guiding of the spirite Therefore as nowe wee haue to deale with grace to bring forth the fruites of holy workes vnto God which hath made vs righteous freely through Christ R. The law of wedlock I know very well and what benefite free iustification bringeth I now vnderstande the better by you But yet I do not throughly perceyue what maner of one this mariage of the law with man is P. I wil vtter the meaning of
torments and finally leaue nothing vnattempted to bring vs to destruction Thinke you that suche wicked men are to be borne with patiently Is it not lawful for vs to requite like for like and to be reuenged of our enemies by giuing them their deserued punishment P. My brother these sayings smell of fleshly wisedome and not of Christian meeknesse Which if you will giue your selues vnto you must onely not requite any man euil for euill but also you must procure the things that are honest holy and righteous vnto all men yea euen vnto your deadliest enemies And if it be possible as much as in you is liue ye in peace with all men And if other mēs pispositions be so sauage wayward and churlish that they make warre vpō you when you minde nothing but peace I beseeche you deare brethren auenge not your selues take not vpon you to redresse the wrongs that are done you giue not the bridle lose to your anger but rather restrayne your cholar giue place to gods wrath and vengeance put the iudging and reuenging of your case to gods iustice cal to your remēbrāce that most holy saying of god wherin he sheweth himselfe to be both a iudge a reuēger of our wrongs in that he saith vengeance belongeth to me I wil requite it saith the Lord. Seeing then that to reuēge is gods office not yours let the whole matter be lefte alone to his iudgement and he wil yeeld euery man acording to his desert Therfore if thine enemie hunger giue him meate if he thrist giue him drink for by that means to vse the words of the wisest king that euer was thou shalt heape burning coles vpō his head Prou. 25. de 32.35 For by receiuing of these benefits your enemies mind shal either be ouercome mekned or else burned and svvelted with the recorde of his owne conscience which surely is not a small part of gods vengeance To comprehend this my doctrine in few words brother bere wel in mind this warning of mine Be not ouercome of euill but rather ouercome the other mās naughtines frowardnes with thy goodnes R. I would with all my hart that this profitable necessarie doctrine to purchase quietnes of mind might take place with all men But alas the while the most part of our company begin now adayes not only to seeke to be reuenged of their persecuters but also to be so bold as to take weapon in hande and to withstande the magistrates and iudges that hinder the preaching of the Gospell P. They that thinke the sufferings of the faythfull to be impedimēts to hinder the course of the gospel Chap. 13 are sore deceiued For the bloud of the Martyrs watereth the garden of the Church so as the stocks of it do increace florish the more for it But you that loue godlinesse beare in minde this precept of mine that euery man which professeth Christe be he Israelite 1. Pet. 2.3 Sap. 6.4 or be he one of you must be subiect to the higher powers For to what ende are they placed in higher degree but that the inferiour sorte should be subiect vnto them R. What if euill Princes reigne by degree of succession What if there happen to be cruell Consuls Senators or other officers by election of the people or by fauoure of partaking Thinke you that such are to be obeyed P. What else For they that beare rule are not considered as priuate persons but rather reuerenced bicause they be ordeyned of God For you must assure your selfe that there is no power but of god The powers that are as Magistrates Principalities of kingdoms and as all other Potentates are ordeined of God to our behoofe howsoeuer they reigne For if the feare of God do drawe them to further godlynesse you see how great benefite their good example bringeth For it is a common said saw that the whole world fashioneth it selfe after the exāple of the king But if they doo amisse Gods vengeaunce is to be considered who causeth hipocrits and dissemblers to reigne for the sinnes of the people And this houshold order of Gods bringeth also his cōmodities to the godly R. Then are not you of opinion that it is lawful for vs to make warre against our Princes and Magistrates though they go about to hinder the course of the Gospell and to ridde vs quite cleane out of the would P. No in deed and I adde further to knit vp the matter withall that whosoeuer setteth himselfe against the magistrate resisteth Gods ordinance And they that resiste Gods ordinance procure damnation to themselues shall suffer due punishment For in asmuch as God is the author of that order Let suche as rebell against their magistrates vnderstande that they make warre againste God himselfe and therefore it cannot be but that they purchase exceding great calamity to themselues R. O lamētable state of our age wherin we see so manye ciuill warres insurrections of cōmons treasons of subiects most cruell murtherings of princes and passing barbarous slaughters of subiects committed P. All these things happen perchāce throughe the faulte of booth parties namelye both of the people and of the gouernours For the people forgetting their duety doo peraduenture despise the authoritie of their prince and on the other side the considering not the bound of the kingly office executeth crueltye not lyke a shepeherde of his flock but as a most vnnaturall tyrant For magistrats are not a terror to good works but to euill works and therfore they must strike not into such as do wel but into such as do naughtily for God hath aduaunced thē to that great dignitye to maintaine the good and too brydle the bad by their meanes Then if thou when I speake to you I speake to all men if thou I say wilt not be afraid of the power do well and so shalt thou receiue praise and rewarde of the same and then as for to set thy selfe against it that wilt thou not do R. Surely an excellent meane to beare that yoke which els were an intollerable burthen to beare it I say not onely without vnquietnesse but also with singular frute But fooles will not beware till it be to late as they say Woulde God this doctrin were as throughly grauē in mens harts as it is oftē talkt of in their mouthes For thē would it come to passe that that minds of the faithfull shoulde haue inward peace quietnesse and the common welth inioy greater profit P. Whersoeuer thou becommest put thou forth this saying in season out of season in way of rebuking in way of intreatāce and in way of teaching namelye that the magistrate is Gods chosen minister ordeyned and set vp in the office of gouernment to punishe suche as do amisse to comfort such as do wel Therfore if thou do any euill be afraid for he beareth not the sworde in vaine For God who setteth vp the powers doth also arme them with the
vpper hande and that not by oure ovvne wit nor vppon truste of oure ovvne strength nor puffed vp vvith opinion of our ovvne vertue or deseruings but through him vvho of his ovvne meere goodnesse grace and fauour hath loued vs in his Christ R. These proofes of true faith do so moue my mynde that henceforth I wyll not set a strawe by the threatninges and scaringes of oure Emperours or too speake more ryghtly of oure tyrantes as whose power may shewe crueltie to the body but not plucke the mynde from fayth and the loue of God P. Novv to make an ende of thys treatise of iustification I am fully persvvaded that vve whiche are borne a nevv and greffed into Christe are neuer ouercome nother by death nor by lyfe nor by anye other thing that can happen to vs alyue or deade yea I am fully perswaded that nother Angels nor Principates nor potestates nor things present nor things to come nor highnes nor lowdnesse nor any other of all the things that are in nature is able to plucke vs from the loue of God whiche is in Christ Iesus our Lord and muche lesse that any tormentes of tyrantes be they neuer so cruell can dryue vs avvaye from the professing of Christ R. By thys youre discourse Paule I perceiue well not onely the loue that God beareth vs but also the constancie stedfastnesse and stablenesse thereof in somuch that I am sure it cannot by any meanes be brought too passe that God shoulde not loue vs in Christ Iesus as his members or that we shoulde not alwayes loue him againe How be it as I perceiue by the order which you haue set downe you haue hytherto treated of Christen ryghtuousnesse and you haue shewed playnely that nother the Gentyles can becomme cleere by keepinge of the lawe of nature nor the Iewes by the workes of the law written bycause none of both them performeth the cōmaundements of Gods will to the full which require to be kept to the vttermost tittle And therfore there is offered vs a most present remedy by the preaching of the Gospel namely that we may becomme rightuous by beleeuing in Christ being indued with his spirit giue our selues wholly to the dueties of obedience so as at length we may attaine euerlasting happines with Christ the head of all the faithfull But now remayneth the greatest hardenesse of this Epistle For if men be iustified by fayth and Christ belong but onely to the beleuers vndoubtedly then is the seed of Abraham cast of For as you your self see very few of Abrahams seed receiue Christs doctrine Wherupō it cōmeth to passe that some saye flatly that this Iesus of Nazareth is not the true Messias that was promised to the people of Israell and othersome affirme that he is the true Messias but that God abydeth not by his promises but reiecteth it at his pleasure Now for asmuch as none of both these thinges as I thinke is true I would fayne vnderstande the doubts of this treatise which you intitled of election or of the calling of the Gentyles P. As for the casting of or to speake more ryghtly the vnbeleefe of myne owne countreymen Cha. 9. I cannot speake of it vvithout greefe of mind For I say the truth in Christ vvithout lying and my conscience beareth me witnesse of it by the holy ghost Act. 9.1 1. Co. 15.7 that I am stricken vvith great greefe and continuall sorrovv of mynde to remember and beholde the blindnes and destruction of the Iewes For I coulde fynde in my harte to be a straunger vnto Christ for my brethrens sake vvhich are my kinsfolke as in respect of humane nature So gret so earnest and so vnfained loue doo I beare them For the Israelites come of Gods sholed and chosen people Ro. 2.18 Epi. 2. 12. to whom belong the adoption and couenaunts to whom the lavv seruice of God were giuen to vvhom the promises vvere giuen and finally of whose fathers Christ came as concerning his manhod For in that he is the coeternall and coessentiall sonne of God he is God to be praysed aboue all things for euer Amen He is the true Messias the verie Sauiour the very mediator betwene God and man euē in spyte of the powers of hell Therfore there is no cause why anye man should call it in question whether Iesus of Nazareth be the very same Messias that was promised to the children of Israell And wheras you say there are others that blame God of vnconstancy surely I am sory for it For that errour springeth of the not knowing of Gods determination vvhereby he did once decree in his ovvne mynde that none should be saued but the beleuers And wheras the Iewes surmise the saide promise to belong only to themselues they vtterly mistake their marke as they say Nother can their vnbeleefe blame god of vnconstancy Ro. 2. 16. as though hys woord had falne to the grounde For not all they which are borne of Israel by fleshly descent are true and chosen Israelites nother follovveth it that by cause they be Abrahams ofspring therefore they are all Abrahams true and natural children that is to say faithfull descended of the father of the faithfull But of Isaac sayth God to Abraham shall thy ofspring take their name Ge. 21.12 He. 11.25 whiche is all one as if he should say they shall not be called Abrahams children which shall come of thee by Ismael thy fleshly son But the children whiche are thine in deede and whiche shall be called the children of God are they that shall cōuey their pedegree from Isaac the son of the spirit rather than of the flesh To conclude at a vvoorde they be not the true Israetites vvhich are the children of Abrahams body Gal. 4.28 but they that are his childrē by promise are counted the children of Abraham and of God R. Truly this your saying of gods promise semeth new straūge to the Iewes P. Vndoubtedly their owne blyndnesse is the cause of this errour and not my true interpreting of thē which they diffame with nouelty for the prophesies sermōs of the prophets do cōtinually teach inforce this decre of the euerlasting god But least my coūtrimen may cōplaine of my sayings let vs loke narrowlyer vppon Gods sayinges The vvords of the promises are these Ge. 17.10 I wyll visit thee at this tyme sayth God vnto Abraham and Sara shall by my fauour haue a sonne notwithstanding that she be barren and both of you be stryken in yeares Therefore ye see that vnder this figure of Isaac Ismaell God did shadow and shevv aloofe his free chosing of all beleeuers whether they were Iewes or Gentyles that by that meanes he might make it knowen that he is the God of all men both Ievves and Gentyles Joh. 1.12 Joh. 3.15 and that he gathereth his chosen indifferently out of both peoples not by fleshly generation but by beleeefe of the promise and by acceptation R.