Selected quad for the lemma: order_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
order_n	bishop_n	degree_n	presbyter_n	3,055	5	10.4044	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A49890	Plain dealing, or, Nevves from New-England a short view of New-Englands present government, both ecclesiasticall and civil, compared with the anciently-received and established government of England in some materiall points : fit for the gravest consideratin in these times / by Thomas Lechford ...; Plain dealing	Lechford, Thomas, ca. 1590-1644?	1642 (1642)	Wing L810; ESTC R12846	46,269	88

to whom I wrote kindly returned me a wise answer wherein is this passage TO speak in briefe I think now that New-England is a perfect model and sampler of the state of us here at this time for all is out of joynt both in Church and Common-wealth and when it will be better God knoweth To him we must pray for the amendment of it and that he will not lay on us the merits of our nationall and particular sinnes the true cause of all these evils Dated out of Somerset-shire Aprilis 27. 1641. To another thus IN a word or two we heare of great disturbances in our deare native Countrey I am heartily sorry c. I beseech you take my briefe opinion We here are quite out of the way of right government both in Church and Common-wealth as I verily think and as far as I can judge upon better consideration and some pains taken in searching after the bottome of some things Some electorie wayes tend to the overthrow of Kingdomes No such way for government of Englishmen as a Monarchie of Christians as by Diocesan Bishops in their line Better yeeld to many pressures in a Monarchie then for subjects to destroy and spoile one another If I were worthy to advise a word I should desire you to have a care and so all your friends you prejudice not your estate or posterity by too much opposing the Regall power For I verily beleeve the Kings Majesty hath in generall a good cause touching Episcopacie My reasons I could better deliver in presence if haply God give opportunity to see you or if you require it hereafter I will be ready to present my thoughts unto you All this as I shall answer before the Lord without any by-respects If you were here I presume you would see more then I can but I think you would be much of my mind From Boston in N. E. Septemb. 4. 1640. To another of no meane rank COmplaining of my sufferings and shewing the reasons desiring him to send for me that I might declare them to his person more effectually From Boston in N. E. March 1640. To another YOu knew my condition and employment and how ill it went with me in England by reason of the trouble of our friends and my own danger therby For my outward subsistence here at this time God knowes it is but meane some say it is my owne fault and that I stand in my owne light and you and others may so conceive but the God of heaven is my witnesse I have endeavoured in all things to keep a good conscience though sometimes I have failed I have endeavoured laying all by-respects aside to joyne with the Church here but cannot yet be satisfyed in divers particulars whereby I am kept from all place of employment or preferment as I have had overtures made unto me of if I would or could yeeld but hitherto I have not dared to doe it for good reasons best knowne to our heavenly Witnesse I must give you a taste They hold their Covenant constitutes their Church and that implyes we that come to joyne with them were not members of any true Church whence we came and that I dare not professe Againe here is required such confessions and professions both in private and publique both by men and women before they be admitted that three parts of the people of the Country remaine out of the Church so that in short time most of the people will remaine unbaptized if this course hold and is we feare of dangerous consequence a thing not tending to the propagation of the Gospel in peace Which though it have a colour of sanctimony and strictnesse whereby many well-affected or affectionate people but weak in sound experience and judgement are the rather drawn thereunto and they are in a manner necessitated to it to maintaine their election of Magistrates and Ministers in their owne way of popular or Aristocraticall government I dare not for my part yeeld unto neither in my own conscience nor for the credit of those persons with whom I have been educated and in whose causes I have been seen A Monarchy is the best government for Englishmen better to suffer some pressures under that kind of government then to spoile one another with popular elections Againe I cannot yeeld to Lay-Elders nor that Lay-men should impose hands upon any to the Ministerie nor that any Minister should renounce his calling to the Ministerie which he received in England as Antichristian It is a grosse error and palpable schisme then our Baptisme is not right and so there will be no end of separations Also I beleeve there cannot be a Church without a true Minister nor can any gather themselves together into a Church without a true Minister nor can they ordain their own Ministers ordinarily I meane what may be done in an extraorninary case pro prima vice is another question I hold there ought to be an Apostolicall Bishop by succession from Christ and his Apostles superiour in order or degree to his brethren which Bishop ought to ordain and rule with other Presbyters or alone but Presbyters cannot without him And if so be any thing in word or act passed from mee to the contrary hereof I do professe it was in my ignorance Their calling is of Divine authority or nearest thereunto else the Church of God could not have subsisted in any tolerable way of peace through all this by-past time of 1600. yeeres I feare they know not what they say that say the contrary let them come here they will quickly change their minde if they study the point and follow it home for besides the keeping of peace and unity and a pure and able learned Ministery how can the Gospell be propagated without some speciall Ministers having the power Apostolicall to goe forth to convert Indians or Pagans If a Pastor or Minister or Christian of any Church shall doe so what hath he to doe with Infidels as hee is a Pastor he is no Pastor to them Therefore if any are sent to convert and establish Churches among Infidels such as are sent are Apostolick messengers Bishops or Ministers to them and ought to be sent with fasting and Prayer and by imposition of hands of the Presbytery and having converted Infidels may plant Churches and ordain Ministers among them and afterwards visit them and is not this Episcopacie and their line wherein they have gone their Diocesse These things naturally flow from and are grounded in the Word or equity thereof and meere necessity Now if all Ministers should ordinarily have this authority to go forth to these works without mission what quarelling there would be for division of Lines or Dioceses let the experience of former ages tell yea of the Apostolique times wherein were not wanting those that quarelled with Saint Paul himselfe about his Line or rule 2 Cor. 10. Now unto this confusion tends the opinion that saith a Bishop and Presbyter is all one and equall

advise stil doe the same alway with subordination to the Evangelisticall leaders and fit Christian and Nationall Synods 21. If the Parson should not rule alone ordinarily why should the principall leaders rule ordinarily alone without the advise and assistance of a competent number of their Presbyters who may afford them counsell Did not the holy Apostles advise with the Elders a sometimes is it safe for them or the whole 22. But were there any Bishops superintendent over other Bishops or Presbyters in the first hundred years after Christs birth Did not Saint Iames write his Generall Epistle to the twelve Tribes which were then scattered abroad no doubt in many places and therein mention for Rulers onely b Elders and S. Peter write his generall Epistle and therein direct or command the c Elders not to over-rule the flock the Lords inheritance where was the Order of Bishops had not the Elders the rule might they not else have returned answer that the command concerned not them but a certaine Order of men called Bishops above us 23. Were not the Apostles and Euangelists then living d Bishops and superintendent overseers had they not the e care of all the Churches in their lines did not these holy Apostles S. Iames and S. Peter mention their owne names in their Epistles is it not plain that Peter had over-sight upon those to whom he wrote to see that they did not over-rule and take account of them if they did And did the Lord ordaine there should be such a superintendencie onely for an 80. years and not some equall correspondent superspection also in after-ages when those extraordinary men should cease If some had then the care of all the Churches should there not be some in after-times to have the care of some to a competent number of Churches in their fitting lines and as they are f able And though this Divine right be broken through the many grosse corruptions of successions and the like yet is it not equall to observe the first Institution as neere as may be as we say the equity of some Lawes and Statutes among us is sometimes to be observed though not in the Letter And why may not a chiefe Pastor be called a Bishop as well as an Elder or any other officer heretofore superior 24. If g Psalms and Hymnes and spirituall songs are to be sung in the Church and to sing melodiously and with good harmony is the gift of God and uncomely singing a kind of sin in the holy Assemblies why should not the chiefe leaders and rulers of the Church appoint some in their stead to take care of the singings of the Church and may not some be fitter to lead in singing then others and lest they may fall out of their tunes to jarring why may they not use the help of some musicall instruments and lest they should want able men this way why should they not take care that some children be trained up in Musique 25. Whether or no Christ did not allow of a h form of Prayer and a short one too will not the i strong allow the weak helps in Prayer are not the best Christians often distracted in long Prayers is it not easier for the strong to pray then for as strong men to hear Prayer well should those that are strong Proficients in grace not be satisfied without all their weak brethren come to the same pitch of high sanctification with themselves should they not rather k condescend to the weaker And although it be rare to tell of any actually converted by formes of Prayer and Scriptures read yet who can justly deny but that much good hath been is and may for ever be done by such things that way Sicut ultimus ictus quercum non caedit extrema arena clepsydram non exhaurit as the last stroak fells not the oake nor the last sand exhausts the houre-glasse 26. Whether may not a man l and his household a woman and her houshold a whole m City or Countrey a King and his people a whole Nation be baptized after they are competently instructed in the Religion of God 17. Is it certain that all that were baptized in n Cornelius his house in the o Gaolers house in Lydia's in p Samaria in q Corinth were such true beleevers as now good men require all those that joyne with them to be before they will receive them to the Communion of their Church Were not r hypocrites admitted baptized in the Primitive Church by the Apostles and Evangelists themselves being deceived by them Were not children circumcised in the old Testament and baptized all along in the times of the New so received into the bosome of the Church 28. Could or can ever any Nation probably be brought into the obedience of the Gospel poll by poll in such manner as is imagined by the leaders of separations 29. If it be possible let them make experience and try whether the Indians or any other Heathen people can be so converted before the Greek Kalends 30. Whether there be any direct Scripture for the peoples choice of their chiefe Pastour Can there ordinarily be a better election then when the supreame Magistrate who hath at most times the power of all the people and sometimes their counsell in a regular way joynes with a select and competent number and company of Presbyters in the same 31. Whether any that have not skill grace and learning to judge of the parties to be ordained whether they be fit and able to what they are to be ordained may s ordaine them 32. Whether or no to maintain a desired purity or perfection in the Magistracie by election of the people these good men of New-England are not forced to be too strict in receiving the brethren and to run a course tending to heathenisme 33. Whether have not popular elections of chiefe Magistrates beene and are they not very dangerous to States and Kingdomes Are there not some great mysteries of State and government Is it possible convenient or necessary for all men to attain to the knowledge of those mysteries or to have the like measure of knowledge faith mercifulnesse wisdome courage magnanimity patience Whence are Kings denominated but from their skill and knowledge to rule whereto they are even born and educated and by long experience and faithfull Counsellors enabled and the grace and blessing of God upon all Doe not the wise good ancient and renowned Laws of England attribute much yea very much trust and confidence to the King as to the head and supreame Governour though much be also in the rest of the great body heart and hands and feete to counsell maintain and preserve the whole but especially the Head 34. Hence what government for an Englishman but an hereditary successive King v the son of Nobles well counselled and assisted 35. Whether we the posterity of the Church and