Selected quad for the lemma: order_n
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A51738
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The considerations which oblig'd Peter Manby dean of London-dery, to embrace the Roman Catholic religion humbly dedicated to His Grace the Lord Primate of Ireland.
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Manby, Peter, d. 1697.
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1687
(1687)
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Wing M384; ESTC R7924
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16,848
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24
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Indignation to see so much Stripping and Plundering of God's House under pretence of Resorming it Tu abominaris Idola Sacrilegium facis Rom. 1. 22. FAREWEL May it please your Grace I Humbly beg leave to send Your Grace this short Account of my Reconcilement to the Roman Catholick Church God be praised it was not any consideration of Temporal Interest that inclin'd me to it as all that have known me these several years past can witness But having often reflected on the uncertainty and variety of the Protestant Spirit and perused the Books of Catholicks without prejudice especially the Mass it self I found my self deceiv'd by the Reports which I had entertain'd of Catholick Religion THere are three Points chiefly wherein I could never satisfy my self since I began to Study the Controversy between both Churches One is the Authority or Mission of the first Reformers The second is the want of Confession in the Church of England The Third is the Answer given by Protestants to that Question in His late Majesties Papers Where is that one Holy Catholick and Apostolick Church which we do profess to believe in the two Creeds As to the first I have seen Dr. Bramhall's and Mr. Mason's Vindications of the Church of England but could never find any satisfactory Answer to this Question Who Authoriz'd the first Reformers to Preach their Protestant Doctrine and Administer their Protestant Sacraments Their Priestly or Episcopal Character whether valid or no I meddle not with to prevent Disputes Although I think it no easy matter to find out who Ordain'd the first Protestant Bishops there being none to do it except Roman Catholick Prelates who never use to Consecrate any Protestants This Testimony I lately met with in the Records annexed to Dr. Burnet's second Volume of his History of the Resormation In the Month of March anno 1553. Queen Mary sent this amongst other Articles to the Bishop of London viz. Touching such persons as were heretofore meaning the days of Edward the VI. promoted to any Orders after the new sort and fashion of Orders considering they were not order'd in very deed the Bishop of the Diocess finding otherwise sufficiency and ability in those men may supply that thing which wanted in them before and then according to his discretion admit them to Minister c. This Royal Testimony with the Honest Protestant Reader will not be despisable I shall not insist upon it but only observe at present that Cranmer Archbishop of Canterbury and Latimer Bishop of Worcester at the time of their Confecration were profess'd Roman Catholicks in all points except perhaps the Pope's Supremacy But afterwards turning Protestants and pronouncing the Church of Rome Idolatrous I would fain know by whose Authority The truth is they were first Ordain'd Catholick Bishops according to the Roman Pontifical and afterwards made themselves Protestant Bishops But I understand not how a Man can forsake the Church of England and Preach Presbyterian Doctrine by virtue of his Protestant Orders nor how any man can justify his Protestant Doctrine by Authority of his Popish Mission This was Cranmer and Latimer's case who at the time of their Consecration which was in the days of Henry the VIII professed Seven Sacraments whether they believ'd so many is a Question Afterwards anno 1536. retrenched them to Three that is to say Baptism Penance and the Lord's Supper Then to Two anno 1548 By whose Authority or Mission I cannot tell So that Protestancy seem to me to have been born into the World not like Honestly begotte Children whose Parents are known but rather like a By-blow whose Father is doubtful I have known some Pre byrerians when question'd about their Mission pretend they did receive it from the Church of England Prelates But being further interrogated Did that Church Authorize you to Preach against her Sacraments or Liturgy There was no Answer to be had I know it will be said that the Protestant Religion is Authoriz'd by Act of Parliament and so is not Presbytery A Parliamentary Mission then our first Reformers had and no other that I can find But whether the Parliament being a Civil Authority has Power to send Missioners to Preach the Gospel and Administer Sacraments I do not well understand If they have I suppose every Member of Parliament may Preach and Administer Sacraments if he pleases because no man can give that Authority unto others which he hath not himself And if English Parliaments may Preach and Administer Sacraments I doubt not but the French Spanish Scotch and Irish may do the same and then what Unity of Spirit or agreement in Faith Christians are like to have I could never understand To this two Answers are wont to be given which I will not conceal from the Reader One is that Cranmer and his Associates were sent and ordered by the Roman Pontifical to instruct the people according to the Scriptures This is the Answer of Dr. Burnet The Church saith he was over-run with Errours and Corruptions this Cranmer saw and was obliged to undeceive the people Very good But I intreat the Reader to inspect the Records aforesaid published by the Doctor himself and annexed to the first and second Volume of his History where he shall find Cranmer and one or two Bishops more pretending Errours and Corruptions and driving on a Reformation against the Major Vote of the English Bishops He shall find the same Cranmer at the time of his Consecration owning and professing those very Doctrines which afterwards he called Errours and Corruptions so that still I must ask the old Question by whose Authority did he condemn that Church from whom he receiv'd his Mission and Holy Orders I desire to know whether an honest Man can Preach against the Liturgy Sacraments or Constitution of any Church by virtue of any Commission he received from it And whether such Preacher be not liable to the Censures of that Church Did ever any Church Authorize her Priests or Bishops to go and Preach the Gospel according to their own private Sense and Conscience in contradiction to her declared Doctrine and Worship Does the Church of England give any such Power at this day No by no means Read the Form appointed by her for the Ordination of a Priest where the Bishop is to interrogate the Party thus viz. Do you think in your heart that you be truly called according to the Order of this Church of England to the Order and Ministry of Priesthood The Answer is I think so Will you then saith the Protestant Bishop give your diligence always to Minister the Doctrine and Sacraments as this Church and Realm hath received the same according to the Commandments of God The Answer is I will do so by the help of God. So that as no honest Man can turn Presbyterian or Independant Preacher by virture of his Protestant Mission so neither can he Preach Protestant Doctrine by pretence of a Commission he received from the Church of
THE CONSIDERATIONS WHICH OBLIG'D PETER MANBY DEAN Of LONDON-DERY TO EMBRACE THE Roman Catholic RELIGION Humbly Dedicated to His GRACE the Lord Primate of IRELAND PSALM XLII Judica me Deus discerne causam meam de Gente non sancta Emitte lucem tuam veritatem tuam Ipsa me deduxerunt adduxerunt in Montem Sanctum tuum in Tabernacula tua Dublin Castle the 11th of March 1686 / 7. This following Discourse is Allow'd to be Printed Tho. Sheridan Secr. LONDON Re-printed for NATH THOMPSON at the Entrance into the Old Spring Garden near Charing Cross 1687. TO THE READER VVHen a Protestant rehearses this Article of his Creed I believe one Holy Catholique and Apostolique Church I would fain understand what Church he means Whether the Church of England alone as establish'd by Law or the Church of England in Communion with other Churches If the former then his meaning is I believe one Holy Protestant Church as settled in England by Act of Parliament If the latter I desire to know with what other Church under the Heavens does the Church of England Communicate in Sacraments and Liturgy Whether with Lutherans Calvinists Waldenses or Greek Church If with none of all these why does he pretend to believe One Holy Catholique Church This Church Establish'd by Law being Catholique neither as to Time nor Place because not Visible any where for many Ages before Edward VI. Good Reader if we believe our selves Catholiques let us not fancy to our selves a Church divided from all the rest of the World. And therefore I crave leave to ask St. Paul 's Question What came the Word of God out from you the establish'd Church or came it unto you alone 1 Cor. 14.36 Hath the Divine Goodness left all the World in Darkness except our Island And Vs too for so many Ages until Henry VIII took a fancy to Ann Bolen Is the Catholique Church dwindled away to the Church of England Perhaps you will Answer me that by One Holy Catholique Church you understand all the variety of Protestants as Church of England-men Presbyterians Lutherans Independants Anabaptists Fifth-Monarchy-men Quakers c. But all these wanting that first and Essential Mark of the Catholique Church call'd Unity cannot be That one Holy Society intended by our Creed And moreover this makes Protestancy so wandring and uncertain a thing that I for my part do not well understand it Can you say that Lutherans and the Church of England-men are the same in all Material points the Lutherans holding a Corporal Presence in the Sacrament and the Church of England denying it Or that Calvinists and good Protestants are the same in all necessary matters the former having no Orders of Priests and Bishops consequently no true Sacraments nor Power of Binding and Absolving Sinners Besides the Catholique Church can never fail But as for those Sects of Protestants Who ever saw or heard of them for many Ages before Henry VIII Well but you will insist upon it that God hath his People amongst all sorts of Protestants which Answer I have sometimes heard out of the Mouths of Protestants And it calls to my mind those excellent words of the late King's second Paper viz. The Protestants are not of the Church of England as 't is the true Church from whence there can be no Appeal but because the Discipline of that Church is conformable at that present to their Fancies which as soon as it shall contradict or vary from they are ready to embrace or joyn with the next Congregation of People whose Discipline or Worship agrees with their own Opinion at that time c. And further it brings into my remembrance these words of a certain Person once of my Acquaintance he was a Presbyterian and gave his Son leave to go for New-England to seek his Fortune Why said a Friend of his they are all Independants there and your Son will be in danger of losing his Principles I care not what he be reply'd the other so he be not a Papist In a word dear Reader it concerns thee to understand aright that Article of thy Creed I believe one Holy Catholique and Apostolique Church Because the only way to be at rest in this World and happy in the World to come is to find out that Church upon whose Authority thou mayst relie Noah 's Dove found no rest for the sole of her Foot until she return'd into the Ark. No more wilt Thou but shalt be tossed too and fro upon the unstable Waters of Schism until thou return into the Ark of one Holy Catholique Church I pray recollect what St. Paul admonishes concerning Schism I beseech you Brethren by the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ that ye all speak the same thing and that there be no Schisms among you 1 Cor. 1.15 But that ye glorifie God with one Mind and one Mouth That is that ye serve God not only saying the same things but the same Words especially about your Sacraments and Liturgy For by one Spirit We meaning all Christians are Baptiz'd into one Body Therefore he exhorts them to take heed of such Teachers as have no Mission or Authority for what they say but only good Words and fair Speeches to deceive the hearts of the simple In the following Discourse I hope the Reader shall find it briefly and yet fully made out to him that the first Reformers had no Mission for what they did nor any pretence to justifie their Seperation and breach of Unity but only the Scripture as interpreted by themselves not only without but against the Authority of the present Catholique Church Out of which a man may have all things except Salvation said St. Augustin And further he shall find me pressing for an Answer to such Questions as these viz. What Priesthood or Holy Orders had the first Reformers but what they received from the Hands of Roman Catholick Bishops Whether a Presbyterian Minister having received Orders from a Protestant Bishop can by virtue of such Orders pronounce the Church of England a corrupt Church Whether Cranmer and his Associates could condemn the Church of Rome by pretence of the Mission they received from her Bishops Whether an Act of Parliament in France Spain or Germany be not as good an Authority for Popery there as in England for Protestancy And in case there be no Judge to determine who have the true sense of Scripture Roman Catholicks or Protestants Whether the Catholick sense be not as good as the Protestants Finally I intreat the Protestant Reader to peruse Dr. Heylin 's History of the Reformation a Book that speaks bitterly enough against Popery yet as to matter of Fact so Honestly written that notwithstanding all Dr. Burnet 's industry to diminish its credit it hath opened the Eyes of many good Protestants See Dr. Burnet 's character of it in his Preface to his first Volume where he censures it not for telling untruths in matter of History but rather for speaking too much