Selected quad for the lemma: order_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
order_n	apostle_n	bishop_n	presbyter_n	5,396	5	10.5715	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A30359	The infallibility of the Church of Rome examined and confuted in a letter to a Roman priest / by Gilbert Burnet.	Burnet, Gilbert, 1643-1715.	1680 (1680)	Wing B5805; ESTC R15581	20,586	38

must adore his person and submit to his Decrees And if there be not some strange charm in his Chair I cannot force on my self a belief of his being inspired How then I must be directed to find this infallible Umpire of all differences If you send me to a Succession you give me a hard task to labour in and when I have found it it is no more but what all must allow to be in the Greek Church And I cannot see any thing in the Scriptures of the Bishops of Rome so I am at a loss for want of some good directions and clear characters of this Infallible Iudge 4. My fourth question is In what person or persons of the Roman Church this Infallibility doth rest If you tell me in a Council then I must ask you Where this Council is to be found for all your arguments perswade the necessity of a living speaking Judg therefore I would gladly be satisfied in what City or corner of the World this Council sits for if you send me to the Decrees of the Councils this overthrows all your own grounds from which you plead against the Authority of the Scriptures and if I go to any Writings why not to the Scriptures rather than the Decrees of Councils for every one that has compared them will find a plain simplicity in the one and much of the subtlety of Metaphysicks and the nicety of School terms in the other 5. My fifth Question is What grounds there are for believing this supposed Infallibility tied to the collective Body of the Church and that it is not rather spread over the whole diffusive Body of the Christian World For if the Church be only infallible when gathered in a Council then as there was no Infallibility in the Church for three Ages so it was afterwards subject to the pleasure of the Emperors who called Councils when they would and is now wholly in the Popes hands And as it was in the power of the Emperor so it is now in the Popes to suppress this infallible Authority which is thus subject to outward accidents and must live or die at the pleasure of the Popes and Emperors And indeed the Popes have taken up such jealousies of general Councils that the World is not like to be troubled with more of them 6. If this Infallibility be spread among all Christians I am not a whit nearer the resolution I desire for when they differ in so many opinions how shall I know which of them are in the right must I travel all the Christian World over to examine of which side the greatest number is This is our endless labour therefore I must have a shorter way to work 7. Who of all the Societies of Christians must have the interest to meet and give vote in a Council must all the Lays be excluded and only the Clergy be admitted I must tell you I see no reason for throwing out the Laity You know the Epistles wherein St. Paul gives the Rules for the Order and Government of the Churches are directed to all the Saints and faithful in the Churches by which it seems they were to have an interest in the Government as well as their Pastors We are sure among the Jews the Sanhedrim that judged in all things Civil and Ecclesiastical was not only made up of Priests and that the High-Priest himself was no Member of it by his Office unless he were chosen to be of the number nor can I find any thing in the New Testament that excludes the Laity On the contrary the Promises of the Holy Ghost are made to all that believe without exception and all Christians are called a Royal Priesthood and in the first Council at Ierusalem the Brethren concur'd in the Decision and Synodal Epistle with the Apostles and Elders 8. Supposing none but these in Orders be admitted to a General Council then what interest must they have there shall all be alike or must the Bishops only have a Suffrage You must give good authority for this before all must submit to it It is not determined in Scriptures in the Council of Ierusalem the Presbyters had a Suffrage so it continued in the first Ages of the Church We find the Presbyters subscribing in many Provincial and National Councils Why must they be allowed there and excluded in a General Council it being only an Assembly of all National Councils But if Bishops only must vote in Councils by what warrant do Cardinals as such vote in your General Councils since as Cardinals they are only the Presbyters and Deacons of Rome Abbots also though but Priests get a Vote in the Western Councils for as Abbots they cannot pretend to a Divine Character or institution and if as Priests they vote in your Councils why are not all Priests allowed the same privilege 9. How shall I be assured a Council thus constituted is infallible especially if I see or be told by the Historians of both sides that all things are managed in this Council by factious Parties and intrigues each Party studying to wait opportunities when they may carry a Vote and bringing all of their faction to the Council This was plainly the case at Trent as even Pallavicini represents it And you will hardly prevail on any who has considered a little what the direction of the Holy Ghost is to make him believe that in a packt Meeting where all is full of cunning and design the Holy Ghost must be ever ready to direct them when they go to the Vote and that this shall only be when the Bishops are in their Formalities at a Session and not in a Congregation which is the Council resolved in a Grand Committee I know Sir our House of Commons understands this distinction but what grounds have you to pretend to it where all are acted by an infallible direction 10. Whether must the whole Council agree in a Decision or the major part determine I know you choose the latter but it is not easie to make any body hope that the greater part of any Assembly must be the better and wiser part since we see it is most commonly otherwise I know this must be the rule in a Court that determines any thing by equal Suffrages but if a Jury must all agree in the disposal of my life it were but reason that all should also agree in the determining my faith which upon the matter is the disposal of my soul. And I know no reason to believe the Holy Ghost will certainly assist the major part more than that he will assist every person that is allowed a Suffrage in the Council 11. How shall I know what is a General Council what not for I find great numbers of Bishops have run together and flatly contradicted one another The Nicene Council decreed the Son was of the same substance with the Father this was rejected by many other Councils some decreeing he was of a like substance with the Father others that he was of a

there is no absolute necessity of a ratification and if it was fallible the Authority of the Decree must be resolved simply into the Popes insallibility For the ratification that is subsequent to the Councils Vote puts no more authority in the Council than it had when it passed the Vote It is true in matters of Policy I know there be such Constitutions which is the case of the Votes of our two Houses of Parliament that have no force without the Le Roy le veut but if the Council be infallibly directed then it is not in the Popes power to reject their Decisions And if the Council be fallible then the Infallibility rests in the Pope alone and who shall expect I can think the Council of Constance infallible in taking the Chalice from the Laity and fallible in subjecting the Pope to the Council Certainly the Authority was the same in both but because the Pope was a party in the one particular he was sure not to ratifie it 18. Who must be the Infallible Expounder of the Decrees of Councils If you will leave this to every private person then all these inconveniences will follow that you object against private persons expounding Scripture For they may be drawn to several meanings and opinions And we know that at Trent when the Divines differed in many Points of Religion the great business was to find a temper and to contrive the Decree in such general terms as might displease neither Party And thence it was that two of the Divines that were in the Council and disputed in the Points defined but differed in their Opinions after the Council had passed the Decree did publish Treatises for their Opinions both of them pretending the Council decreed of his side And though this was done before the dissolution of the Council yet the Council took no notice of it By which it seems they designed their Decrees should be Oracles as well for their misterious Ambiguity as for their Authority Where then shall we find a Judge of Controversies concerning the true meaning of the Decrees of Councils If you put this in the Popes hands you give all up to him and so the Decrees of the Council shall signifie no more than he is pleased to allow them 19. When new Controversies arise among Christians to whom must they go for decision Must they rest on the Popes definition Then all the power is in his Person Or must they stay for a decision from the Council If this last be setled on then I am afraid you Romanists are in as great a hazard as we are to have your Controversies endless For ever since the Council of Constance the Popes have such mortal jealousies of Councils that the World is not like to see more of them We have seen none now above a hundred years and the very thoughts of one are laid to sleep and yet this is not for want of reason to call a Council For there be great Controversies that do very much divide you but in these you must not expect a decision As whether the Infallibility rest in the diffusive Church or in the Council or in the Pope which is a great thing to be resolved in and hot Contests have been about it It is also of great concern whether Grace be efficacious of it self or only when the Will chuses to make good use of it and about this there have been sharp disputes Great complaints are also made by men of much learning and worth in your Church against a corruption of Morals and all Political Government which approved Doctors and Casuists in your Church have publickly taught and printed with licence which deserves to be condemned by publick authority as well as confuted by private Doctors and Censured by some Civil Judicatories But for all these reasons we are not like to see another general Council in this Age. Suffer me therefore to ask you in this long interval of Councils whether there be any Infallible Judge of Controversies or not If not then all your high pretences vanish if there be one he can be no other than the Pope and if you make the Popes Infallible in the interval of Councils as there is no necessity of them since we have already an Infallible Judge so it were an inexcusable folly in the Popes to call a Council if the world acknowledge them Infallible 20. I must ask one Question more about this general Council you tell me None but Bishops have a decissive Vote in it How then shall I know when there is a general Council For the Intention of the Priest is by your Doctrines necessary to the Sacrament how then shall I know if the pretended Bishops were baptized by one that intended to do it or not And how shall I know that they received Orders from one that gave them with a right Intention And yet all this is necessary before I can acknowledge them Bishops Nor must this be known only in this one Instance though even that depending on the sacred thoughts of the Priest which are known to God alone is a thing wherein I can never hope to arrive at any certainty but I must drive up the same question through the whole succession to the very days of the Apostles for if one Link of the Chain fails the whole falls asunder Since any one that was either baptized or had orders from any who did not intend it is neither a Christian nor a Bishop by your Doctrines And all who are either baptized or ordained by one who is neither Christian nor Bishop are neither Christians nor Clergy men Here is a difficulty in my way that were all the other removed I cannot see how it can possibly be cleared 21. Having now tried your patience with some troublesome questions about your Church in general I came to be satisfied in some particulars that stick with me concerning the Pope to whom I see you must either yield an absolute Authority or be without an Infallible Judge of Controversies And let me first apply my last Question to the Pope and ask how you know that all your Popes have been Christians Priests and Bishops Since this depends on the Intention So that for ought appears to me you may acknowledge for the head of your Church one who is neither a Christian nor in Orders If then my Faith must be resolved into the Popes Authority I am sure it rests on a sandy foundation since I cannot be assured he is truly Pope And let me ask you Do you think that with any colour of reason it can be doubted that there was never an Atheistical Priest or Bishop in the Christian Church whose Intention went not along with the Sacrament I am told that in Spain many pretended Priests are discovered to be Jews and sure these when they baptise will be far from joyning their Intention with that Sacrament So here I stick in the first step and must do so still except you can help me forward