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order_n accept_v according_a account_v 16 3 7.7772 4 false
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A69535 The grand debate between the most reverend bishops and the Presbyterian divines appointed by His Sacred Majesty as commissioners for the review and alteration of the Book of common prayer, &c. : being an exact account of their whole proceedings : the most perfect copy. Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691.; Commission for the Review and Alteration of the Book of Common Prayer. 1661 (1661) Wing B1278A; Wing E3841; ESTC R7198 132,164 165

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the_o contrary_a than_o you_o have_v here_o give_v we_o for_o what_o you_o thus_o affirm_v we_o may_v set_v epiphanius_n against_o augustine_n and_o all_o the_o greek_a church_n till_o in_o the_o midst_n of_o chrysostom_n time_n when_o they_o change_v their_o opinion_n and_o in_o our_o time_n the_o judgement_n of_o the_o famous_a chronologer_n scaliger_n beroaldus_n broughton_n capellus_n clopenburgius_n with_o many_o other_o be_v not_o contemptible_a as_o set_v against_o such_o a_o unproved_a assertion_n as_o this_o sect._n 8._o that_o our_o sinful_a body_n etc._n etc._n it_o can_v no_o more_o be_v say_v those_o word_n do_v give_v great_a efficacy_n to_o the_o blood_n then_o to_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n then_o when_o our_o lord_n say_v this_o be_v my_o blood_n which_o be_v shed_v for_o you_o and_o for_o many_o for_o the_o remission_n of_o sin_n etc._n etc._n and_o say_v not_o so_o explicit_o of_o the_o body_n reply_n sure_a christ_n there_o intimate_v no_o such_o distinction_n as_o 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etc._n etc._n we_o reply_v 1._o profaneness_n may_v be_v oppose_v nevertheless_o for_o our_o instruct_v the_o people_n against_o idolatry_n 2._o the_o abound_v of_o papist_n who_o in_o this_o point_n seem_v to_o we_o idolatrous_a show_v that_o there_o be_v danger_n of_o it_o 3._o the_o commonness_n of_o idolatry_n through_o the_o world_n and_o the_o case_n of_o the_o israelite_n of_o old_a show_v that_o man_n nature_n be_v prone_a to_o it_o 4._o profaneness_n and_o idolatry_n befriend_v each_o other_o as_o god_n be_v jealous_a against_o idolatry_n so_o shall_v all_o faithful_a pastor_n of_o the_o church_n be_v and_o not_o refuse_v such_o a_o caution_n to_o the_o people_n and_o say_v there_o be_v no_o great_a need_n of_o it_o public_a baptism_n until_o they_o have_v make_v due_a profession_n of_o repentance_n etc._n etc._n we_o think_v this_o desire_n to_o be_v very_o hard_a and_o uncharitable_a punish_v the_o poor_a infant_n for_o the_o parent_n sake_n and_o give_v also_o too_o great_a 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turkey_n tartary_n or_o america_n and_o secret_o baptize_v they_o in_o a_o habit_n that_o shall_v not_o make_v we_o know_v but_o there_o be_v more_o of_o fancy_n then_o charity_n in_o this_o and_o christ_n never_o invite_v any_o to_o he_o but_o the_o child_n of_o the_o promise_n to_o be_v thus_o present_v and_o baptize_v sect._n 3_o p._n 23._o and_n than_o the_o godfather_n etc._n etc._n it_o be_v a_o erroneous_a doctrine_n and_o the_o ground_n of_o many_o other_o and_o of_o many_o of_o your_o exception_n that_o child_n have_v no_o other_o right_n to_o baptism_n then_o in_o their_o parent_n right_a the_o church_n primitive_a practice_n 23._o forbid_v it_o to_o be_v leave_v to_o the_o pleasure_n of_o parent_n whether_o there_o shall_v be_v other_o sarety_n or_o no_o it_o be_v fit_a we_o shall_v observe_v careful_o the_o practice_n of_o venerable_a antiquity_n as_o they_o desire_v prop._n 18._o reply_n we_o conjecture_v the_o word_n that_o conclude_v your_o former_a subject_n be_v 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leave_v they_o to_o be_v guide_v as_o we_o have_v say_v so_o that_o it_o be_v no_o impeachment_n of_o his_o law_n as_o insufficient_a to_o make_v law_n for_o determine_v those_o particular_n of_o decency_n which_o himself_o do_v not_o as_o be_v plain_a by_o his_o precept_n intend_v to_o determine_v but_o leave_v we_o governor_n for_o that_o purpose_n to_o who_o he_o say_v as_o my_o father_n send_v i_o even_o so_o send_v i_o you_o and_o let_v all_o thing_n be_v do_v decent_o and_o in_o order_n of_o who_o he_o have_v say_v to_o we_o obey_v those_o that_o have_v the_o over_o sight_n over_o you_o and_o tell_v we_o that_o if_o we_o will_v not_o hear_v his_o church_n we_o must_v not_o be_v account_v as_o christian_n but_o heathen_n and_o publican_n and_o yet_o nevertheless_o they_o will_v not_o hear_v it_o and_o obey_v it_o in_o so_o small_a a_o matter_n as_o a_o circumstance_n of_o time_n place_n habit_n or_o the_o like_a which_o she_o think_v decent_a and_o fit_a and_o yet_o will_v be_v account_v for_o the_o best_a christian_n and_o tell_v we_o that_o it_o be_v the_o very_a awe_n of_o god_n law_n deut._n 12._o 32._o that_o keep_v they_o from_o obedience_n to_o the_o church_n in_o these_o command_n not_o well_o consider_v that_o it_o can_v be_v any_o add_v to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n to_o command_v thing_n for_o order_n and_o decency_n which_o the_o word_n of_o god_n command_v to_o be_v do_v so_o as_o they_o be_v not_o command_v as_o god_n immediate_a word_n but_o as_o the_o law_n of_o man_n but_o that_o it_o be_v undeniable_o add_v to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n to_o say_v that_o superior_n may_v not_o command_v such_o thing_n which_o god_n have_v no_o where_o forbid_v and_o take_v from_o the_o word_n of_o god_n to_o deny_v that_o power_n to_o man_n which_o god_n word_n have_v forgive_v they_o repl._n to_o make_v law_n to_o determine_v of_o undetermined_a circumstance_n necessary_a in_o genere_fw-la to_o be_v some_o way_n determine_v and_o leave_v to_o magistrate_n or_o minister_n de_fw-mi specie_fw-la and_o to_o do_v this_o according_a to_o the_o general_a rule_n of_o scripture_n and_o in_o order_n to_o the_o main_a end_n and_o not_o against_o it_o and_o be_v not_o against_o the_o royalty_n or_o will_n of_o christ_n but_o to_o make_v new_a dedicate_a covenant_a symbol_n to_o signify_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n and_o solemn_o engage_v we_o unto_o god_n and_o place_v those_o in_o the_o public_a worship_n which_o be_v not_o meet_v circumstance_n but_o substantial_a institution_n not_o necessary_a in_o genere_fw-la that_o there_o shall_v be_v any_o such_o at_o all_o beside_o god_n sacrament_n we_o fear_v this_o be_v a_o violation_n of_o the_o royalty_n of_o christ_n and_o a_o reflection_n on_o his_o law_n as_o insufficient_a for_o first_o if_o it_o belong_v to_o the_o power_n proper_a to_o christ_n than_o it_o be_v a_o violation_n of_o his_o royalty_n for_o any_o man_n to_o exercise_v it_o but_o it_o belong_v to_o the_o power_n proper_a to_o christ_n ergo_fw-la etc._n etc._n the_o minor_a be_v prove_v thus_o if_o it_o belong_v to_o the_o universal_a head_n or_o ruler_n of_o the_o church_n as_o such_o than_o it_o belong_v to_o the_o power_n proper_a to_o christ_n for_o we_o be_v ready_a to_o prove_v there_o be_v none_o under_o he_o no_o universal_a head_n or_o ruler_n personal_o or_o collective_o and_o civil_o one_o but_o &c._n &c._n if_o in_o the_o reason_n of_o it_o it_o shall_v be_v the_o matter_n of_o a_o universal_a law_n if_o of_o any_o than_o it_o shall_v be_v the_o work_n of_o the_o universal_a lawgiver_n if_o any_o but_o etc._n etc._n if_o in_o the_o reason_n of_o it_o it_o be_v equal_o useful_a to_o the_o church_n universal_a as_o to_o any_o particular_a church_n or_o age_n than_o it_o shall_v according_a to_o the_o reason_n of_o it_o be_v the_o matter_n of_o a_o universal_a law_n if_o of_o any_o but_o etc._n etc._n it_o have_v the_o same_o aptitude_n to_o engage_v we_o to_o a_o duty_n of_o universal_a necessity_n and_o have_v no_o reason_n proper_a to_o this_o age_n or_o place_n for_o it_o but_o common_a to_o all_o moreover_o it_o be_v no_o where_o commit_v to_o the_o power_n or_o care_n of_o man_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v proper_a to_o the_o care_n and_o power_n of_o christ_n no_o text_n be_v show_v that_o give_v man_n power_n in_o such_o thing_n to_o do_v all_o thing_n decent_o and_o orderly_o and_o to_o edification_n be_v no_o give_v of_o power_n on_o that_o pretence_n to_o make_v new_a covenant_v dedicate_a sign_n to_o do_v god_n work_v decent_o etc._n etc._n be_v not_o to_o make_v more_o such_o of_o our_o own_o head_n it_o be_v but_o the_o right_a modify_n of_o the_o work_n already_o set_v we_o and_o to_o do_v all_o decent_o orderly_o and_o to_o edification_n be_v a_o duty_n in_o moses_n time_n when_o yet_o such_o thing_n as_o these_o in_o question_n may_v not_o be_v add_v by_o any_o but_o god_n when_o we_o say_v by_o god_n we_o mean_v by_o his_o inspire_a instrument_n and_o when_o we_o say_v by_o christ_n we_o mean_v by_o his_o inspire_a instrument_n if_o we_o shall_v make_v law_n that_o every_o one_o be_v public_o to_o taste_v vinegar_n and_o gall_n as_o a_o sign_n that_o we_o be_v not_o ashamed_a of_o but_o resolve_v through_o all_o flesh_n displease_v difficulty_n to_o follow_v christ_n that_o die_v so_o and_o thus_o to_o engage_v and_o dedicate_v ourselves_o to_o he_o this_o be_v to_o do_v more_o then_o to_o do_v all_o thing_n decent_o and_o orderly_o which_o he_o appoint_v if_o milk_n be_v to_o be_v public_o suck_v or_o drink_v by_o all_o in_o profession_n that_o we_o will_v feed_v on_o the_o sincere_a milk_n of_o his_o word_n and_o so_o dedicate_v we_o to_o he_o by_o covenant_n or_o if_o we_o be_v to_o put_v on_o a_o helmet_n &_o other_o armour_n in_o token_n that_o we_o will_v be_v his_o soldier_n to_o the_o death_n and_o manful_o fight_v under_o etc._n etc._n these_o engagement_n by_o such_o public_a sign_n be_v sacrament_n in_o the_o sense_n as_o the_o word_n be_v use_v of_o old_a when_o it_o signify_v a_o soldier_n solemn_a ly_v or_o covenant_v with_o his_o commander_n thus_o by_o distinguish_v decent_a and_o orderly_a mode_n and_o circumstance_n necessary_a in_o genere_fw-la from_o new_a ordinance_n even_o solemn_a dedicate_a covenant_v or_o such_o like_a mystical_a sign_n we_o have_v show_v you_o what_o we_o grant_v and_o where_o you_o fail_v and_o what_o be_v indeed_o a_o wrong_n to_o christ_n and_o a_o accusation_n of_o his_o law_n and_o what_o not_o and_o how_o unjust_a your_o follow_a accusation_n of_o we_o be_v who_o never_o yet_o tell_v you_o we_o will_v be_v account_v the_o best_a christian_n but_o to_o desire_v to_o please_v christ_n as_o near_o as_o we_o can_v be_v not_o blame_v worthy_a abundance_n of_o thing_n of_o lesser_a moment_n than_o these_o be_v command_v by_o god_n in_o the_o law_n to_o which_o he_o add_v that_o sanction_n deut_n 12._o 32._o what_o ever_o thing_n i_o command_v thou_o etc._n etc._n and_o we_o conceive_v that_o the_o word_n as_o my_o father_n send_v i_o so_o etc._n etc._n have_v some_o what_o proper_a to_o the_o extraordinary_a mission_n and_o if_o he_o hear_v not_o the_o church_n etc._n etc._n be_v neither_o speak_v of_o a_o church_n universal_a nor_o of_o magistrate_n make_v law_n for_o such_o ceremony_n or_o sign_n but_o if_o he_o hear_v not_o the_o church_n with_o which_o he_o be_v in_o communion_n and_o which_o admonish_v he_o for_o his_o sin_n let_v the_o church_n reject_v he_o from_o their_o communion_n the_o command_n for_o decent_a ceremony_n may_v still_o continue_v in_o the_o 3._o church_n notwithstanding_o the_o 12._o of_o deut._n and_o so_o it_o may_v too_o for_o all_o the_o exception_n take_v against_o they_o by_o sundry_a learned_a pious_a and_o orthodox_n person_n who_o have_v judge_v they_o they_o say_v unwarrantable_a and_o if_o law_n may_v be_v abrogate_a assoon_o as_o those_o that_o list_v not_o to_o obey_v will_v except_v against_o they_o the_o world_n must_v run_v into_o confusion_n but_o those_o that_o except_o be_v weak_a brethren_n who_o by_o christ_n precept_n and_o example_n we_o must_v not_o offend_v if_o by_o weak_a we_o understand_v ignorant_a they_o will_v take_v it_o ill_o to_o be_v so_o account_v and_o it_o be_v their_o own_o fault_n if_o they_o be_v there_o have_v be_v much_o write_v as_o may_v satisfy_v any_o that_o have_v a_o mind_n to_o be_v satisfy_v and_o as_o king_n james_n of_o bless_a memory_n say_v at_o hampton-court_n if_o after_o so_o many_o year_n preach_v of_o the_o gospel_n there_o be_v any_o yet_o unsatisfied_a i_o doubt_v it_o proceed_v rather_o out_o of_o stubborness_n of_o opinion_n than_o out_o of_o tenderness_n