〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do so aduance the sense therof that they become not coÌ„petible to mortal men especially being applied to the ordering gouerning of the churâ—h are not those names offiâ—es being simply taken without this composition seruing to builde the Ch. as S. Paule saith Ephes. 4. euen on the place that our Brethren do allege for pastors and Doctors that they are all giuen to the worke of the Ministery vnto the edifiing or building of the body of Christe c. So that indéed al these offices that Christe ordeyned are but builders of this mysticall temple vntill we all come to the vnity of faithe and of the knowledge of the sonne of God vnto a perfect man vnto the measure of the age of the fulnesse of Christ And who is the principall builder of this Temple but euen hee that saide of the Temple of his owne naturall bodie to the which his mysticall bodie is compared Destroy this Temple and in three dayes I will builde it vppe againe Io. 6.21 Wheruppon saith S. Paule Heb. 9.1 c. holie bretheren pertakers of the heauenly calling consider the Apostle and heade-Priest of our coâ—fession Iesus who is faithfull to him that hath preferred him euen as Moses also in all his house For he was counted worthye of greater glorye than Moses how much greater honor than the house he hath that made it For euerye house is builded of some man but he that created all thinges is God And verilie Moses was faithfull in all his house as a seruaunt in witnesse of those thinges that were to bee spoken But Christe is in his house as a Sonne which house are wee if wee keepe firme and sure the confidence and glorye of hope vnto the ending Héere are these honorable names attributed both vnto Christe vnto Moses that as Christe was the builder of the spirituall house or temple of God so was Moses Christe as the sonne and owner Moses but as a seruaunt in Gods house and yet commeth in S. Paule 1. Cor. 3. v. 9.10 Ye are the building of God according to the grace of God that is giuen to mee I as a wise 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Arch-builder or chiefe builder which we commonly traÌ„slatea Maister builder haue laid the foundation another buildeth vpon it What durst S. Paule say of himself he was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which tearme principally is proper vnto Christ For the worde signifieth such principallitie and chiefe degrée applied by S. Paule vnto himselfe and that in the cheefest worke of Gods Church the building of it the worke that conteyneth all Ecclesiasticall offices and whereto all do tende and that without any derogation to Iesus Christe Although Christe absolutelie simply and aboue all be the onely and proper 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of all this mysticall building And is this honorable name Elder of such honorable Eldershippe and prerogatiue aboue builder or of any such peculiar application to God the Father or to Christe the sonne that it is onely and properlye applyed to him Indéede Christe is called the olde or auncient of dayes not the elder except with addition our Elder Brother otherwise this honorable name is not so proper onelie to Christe to bée called Presbyter as to be called Sacerdos And therefore is lesse iniurious yea no iniury at all to the peculiar or to any other honorable name of our sauiour Iesus Christ to bee called Archipresbyter And yet if Presbyter had beene any name of Christe seeing that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sacerdos Pontifex yet admitted a mortal maÌ„ to be so much his figure euen of his Sacrifice that one aboue all the other sacrificing priestes was called also fummus sacerdos or Pontifex Maximus the highest sacred Minister or sacrificing prieste and chiefest Bishop without anie derogation to Christes honor yea it rather serued to his honor how much more then in this title Presbyter and Archipresbyter being names not so proper to him may a mortall man without anie dishonour to his prerogatiue reuerently be called Archipresbyter If it bee saide the highe-prieste was so called because hee prefigured Christe True it is But sith our Brethren confesse that those offices callings were likewise also for good order of discipline among them although that priesthoode both in him and in all other of that order of Aaron and Leui bee accomplished in Christe and so abolished yet as the degrees of order and differences of Ministers among them by our Brethrens owne confession was the signe also of the differences among vs So why not withall of the differences of degrees and dignities in the same And sithe our brethren alleage héereunto the Synagogues among the Iewes and their order théerein and that they had 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 chiefe gouernours or princes of the Synagogues which order of dignitie was not abolished by Christe and some good christians were suche among the Iewes not dissalowed but commended by S. Luke euen by that name Act. 18. ver 8. And Crispus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Arch-gouernour of the Sinagogue beleeued with all his house And although Paule after warde 1. Cor. 1.14 mencioning this Crispus tearme him not there the Arch-gouernour of the Iewes sinagogue yet as it further appeareth Act. 18. ver 17. by Sosthenes who was long before a faithfull Christian and as diuers alleage out of Eusebius lib. 1. cap. 13. he was also one of the 72 Disciples chosen of Christe So S. Luke calleth him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Arch ruler or principall of the sinagogue continuing well inough the name and office of his dignity with the sinceritie of Christs religion any order then to the contrarie notwithstanding But if our brethren aske vs what we say to the other honorable name Archiepiscopus indéede wee néede saye the lesse to this of Archipresbyter Arch-prieste or Arch elder retayning no such name among vs as wee haue of Arch-deacon and Arch-bishop but because the name of Deacon is a name much lesse proper vnto Christ Arch-deacon may bee afforded with our brethrens lesse suspition of touching Christes glory and prheminence Deacon signifiing but Minister Arch-deac can signifie but a chiefe or principall Minister and therefore may be suffered with lesse enuie and we haue heard Zanchius Bucers allowance of it As for the name of Bi. being a name of dignity and being wel vsed as S. Paule saith deseruing double honor it is not only a name pertayning to Christe which is called the Bish. of our soules but also communicated by his Apostles vnto mortall men And though the name of Archb. signifie a principall ouerseer in his dignity being simply and absolutely vnderstod of Christe aboue all other is in very déede only the true archbishop yet since the Scripture expresseth no where this name either peculiarly or at all vnto him since so many holy fathers of so great antiquity both
those thinges do appertaine onely to him and the generall Councell And here we beséech our Brethren confessing thus much against the pope as it becommeth good subiectes to their prince to aduise theÌ„selues withall of their former vnaduised spéeches pag. 9 10.84.85.117.1â—8.119 in which places besides their hard termes of Christian princes doe they not giue vnder the name of the Church her authoritie the knowing the hearing the examining the determining the iudging and the punishing of all matters and causes pertayning to discipline gouernment of the Church either to their pastors and teachers or to the Seignories of their gouernors And what differeth this from forbidding princes to meddle with reformation of Eccl. matters or to make lawes pertayning to causes of religion aunswering them that those thinges do appertayne only to them and to their consistories and to their particulaâ— Synodes or generall Councell But when he say they meaning the pope coÌ„meth to debate any thing with his Clergie theÌ„ all lawes and knowledge are inclosed in the closet of his breast And is this any more than to say not onely to the Prince but also to their owne consistorie gouernors of whom their Synodes consist as well as of themselues pag. 117. who should be able to knowe what order comlines aedification requireth according to Gods word but they that be teachers preachers of the same vnto all others For it is absurde that they should be taught by such in these small thinges as ought to learne the truth of in all matters This authoritie therfore can not be graunted vnto any ciuill Christian Magistrate that without consent of the learned Pastors and Elders yea against their consent of whom as in some respect he is a feeling member he may lawfully make ceremoniall constitutions whereby the Church must bee gouerned in meere Eccl. matters Sith therfore they turne al this against the Prince is not this as much as when they come to debate any thing with their Clergie Gouernors that theÌ„ all lawes knowledge is inclosed in the closet of their breasts both from the Prince and from their owne Clergie and Eccl. Gouernors Is not this as much as when they holde their generall Counsels or Prouinciall that all the authoritie must come from them For except they doe allow it it is nothing And how farre differs this froÌ„ the Popes conceit that they also are growen so wise that neither with counsell nor without the Councel they can erre or think amisse in Eccl matters Had they a generall Councell of all those that they call the faithfull ministers that composed this Learned discourse of Eccl. gouernment Well yet there is here some good hope that when our Brethr. shall haue better bethought theÌ„ of these things which they mislike in the Pope debarring the right interest of Christian Princes the verie vggly sight thereof will be as a glasse vnto theÌ„ to sée mislike their owne spéeches and doings in taking vpon them though not the verie same yet so like presumption and vsurpation especially so many and so little states as they are farre inferiour to the Pope and at the verie first péeping out of them yea before they are come to that they would haue thus to insult not onely on the Bishops and to come and set out lawes before themselues are called vnto such authoritie but also thus to blemish and deface the Christian Princes authoritie to abase and debarre it to examine and determine yea to encroch vpon the right and interest in these matters of all Christian Princes and of their owne most godly and gracious Soueraigne But since the sight of their own description of the Popes presumptioÌ„ vsurpation doth begin here to make them stoupe somwhat to the Princes supremacy let them now in good time likewise remember their own sayings pag. 77. 78. where speaking also of the Pope whose intollerable presumption say they as we haue long since banished out of this land so wee wish that no steppe of such pride and arrogancie might bee left behinde him namely that no Elder or Minister of the Churche marke these your owne wordes well good Brethren and turne them not so off against our Bishops that ye forget your selues should chalenge vnto himselfe or accept it if it were offered vnto him any other authoritie than that is allowed by the spirit of God but chiefely to beware that he vsurpe no authoritie which is forbidden by the word of God For wherefore do we detest the Pope and his vsurped supremacie but bycause he arrogateth the same vnto himselfe not onely without the warrant of Gods word but also cleane contrarie to the same Now if the same reasons and authorities that haue banished the Pope do serue to condemne all other vsurped authoritie that is practised in the Church why should not all such vsurped authoritie be banished as well as the Pope we can alleage against the Pope and rightly that which S. Iohn Baptist did aunswere to his disciples No man can take vnto himselfe any thing except it be giuen him from heauen Ioh. 3.27 and that saying of the Apostle to the Hebrewes No man can take vpon him any honor in the Church of God but he that is called of God as was Aaron in somuch that Christ himselfe did not giue himselfe to be an high Priest but he that sayd vnto him Thou art my Sonne this day haue I begotten thee He sayth in another place Thou art a Priest for euer after the order of Melchizedech Now seeing these rules are so generall that the Sonne of God himselfe was not exempted from them but shewed foorth the decree wherin he was authorized by what rule can any man reteyne that authoritie in the Church of God that is not called therunto by the word of God All these words haue our Brethren alleaged triumphantly against the Bishops whose authoritie we haue séene to be throughly grounded on the word of God But for their Consistorie Gouernors to whome they giue such great authoritie we haue as yet after all this shuffling coniecturing pulling and haling of the Scripture of the auncient Fathers and of the old Churches practise to found it vpon we could not yet finde vpon better view therof so much as one good and substantiall proofe or authoritie for it or the example but of one such man And as for their Pastors if none be Pastors but such as are ordeyned after the forme by themselues set downe Pag. 125. saying this is the right election and ordeyning of Pastors grounded vpon the word of God when we come to search better in the word of God we finde not one Pastor so elected and ordeyned And as for their selues these faithfull Ministers none of them neyther that I can learne of were so elected and ordeyned and so they haue eyther no right calling nor authoritie at all but are méere intruders yea méere lay men or else that authoritie that they
thee me neither yet betwixt thy heardmen and mine and he addeth this reason For we are brethren Which reason did so mooue the prudent Ioseph that after he had reuealed himselfe vnto his Brethren returning theÌ„ to fetch his father fearing least any expostulations might breede iarres among theÌ„ he gaue them this especial charge See that ye fall not out by the way Thus did these auncient holy Patriarkes esteeme of coÌ„cord among brethren shunned as a thing most vnnatural all Brethrens discord Which the godly propheticall kinges Dauid Salomon well considering the father stirring vs vp to embrace this vertue Beholde sayth he how good and comely a thing it is for Brethren to dwell in one together Liking it to the precious balme that was powred on the head of Aaron and to the sweet dewe of heauen that falleth on the mountaines to make them frutefull The sonne in detestation of the vice contrary when he had set down the 6. things that the L. hateth Hautie eies a lying tong handes that shed innocent bloud an heart imagining wicked enterprises feete that are swift in running to mischiefe and a false witnesse that speaketh lies he concludeth as with a greater vice than all these in the seuenth and complete number with this sinne which he sayth the soule of God abhorreth And him that rayseth vp contentions among his Brethren And therefore when our sauiour Christ had fore-told his Disciples all the persecutions that they should sustaine by their outward enemies against all these that they might haue brotherly loue among them selues Peace sayth hee I leaue with you my peace I giue vnto you And againe These thinges haue I spoken vnto you that my ioy which is the frute of peace might remayne with you and that my ioy might be full This is my commaundement that ye loue one another And so he knits vp his exhortation with this repetition These things haue I spoken to you that ye might haue peace in me Which bond of peace and loue in Iesus Christ one towardes another both the Apostle S. Paule the Doctor of the Gentiles and especially S. Iohn whom the Lord loued and S. Peter that so loued the Lord and S. Iames the iust in their Epistles so often and so earnestly call vpon and so vehemently disswade vs from contentions Empedocles among tâ—e heatheÌ„ Philosophers beholding the sympathie and antipathie that is in naturall creatures and being moued with the admiration therof concluded that all things were doâ—â— and vndone by concord and discord But to haue this order of nature so inuerted that those persons which are not only chained in this naturall Harmonie but also in a moâ—e heauenly concent should dissent be dissolued is farre more wonderfull thaÌ„ the composition of thinges contrary and that which is worse is much more ieopardous For as the Apostle warned the Galathians and by them vs If ye bite and deuour one another take heede least ye be consumed one of an other And since our Sâ—uiour him selfe hath so seuerely denounced that dreadfull sentence and it is a Maximie grounded on good reason Euery kingdome diuided against it selfe shall be brought to naught and euery Citie or house deuided against it selfe shall not stande no meruaâ—le if these contentions should hold on increase though our Brethren and we be moued hereat beholding this our most flourishing kingdome with these diuisions to be thus rent in sunder that almost no Citie or Towne in the same I can not say no house but is either diuided or at least disquieted by these factions Neuerthelesse this among other is our chiefest comfort against all these and other like tentations that hauing both of vs for the ground of our religion Gods euerlasting infallible truth for the which our common aduersaries do maligne and oppugne vs but can neuer expugne and ouercome vs for alwayes as Zorobabell â—ayde The truth is greater and stronger than all Howsoeuer therefore we be exercised with such plunges I meane not of the open enemies for the troubles that we receaue from them doe more corroborate vs in Gods truth but arising by the waywardnesse of our owne deare Brethren in the gospell that yet we should not be too much dismayed but stayed recomforted Sith that albeit these last dayes according to Christes and his Apostles prophecie are more contentious yet in serching the former ages we shall finde that this selfe same tryall of our faith is not now first laide vpon vs alone but that heretofore the Church of God and the most excellent Princes Prelates and people among them haue often times bought this experience very derely and with great molestations euen from their brethren No sooner had God deliuered his peculiar people from the Aegyptians bondage and idolatrie by the conduct of Moses and Aaron and giuen them lawes and orders to be gouerned by but those their guides were more molested and the people more wasted them selues by their owne mutinies than by the hande of any forraine enemies And since the comming of our sauiour Christ so soone as euer Constantine worthily surnamed the Great had extinguished all the tyrantes persecutions and procured publike peace vnto the gospell what a number of contentions straightwayes brake forth besides the conflictes with the pestiferous Heretikes among the true professors of the right faith euen for matters of discipline and orders disquieting the vnitie and concord of the Church and breeding no small griefe and stoppall to that good Princes proceedinges as we feele and lament the like in these our dayes There is great difference I graunt both in matter and manner of these contentions and in the qualities of the persons that breed these vexations euen as much as is between him that would plucke my coaâ—e from off my backe and so spoyle me and him that would pull my skinne ouer mine eares and so destroy me The controuersies between the common aduersaries and vs are pro Aris focis for matters that capitall matters of the substance life of our Christian religion not trifles as some newtrals would beare the people in hande And therefore our aduersaries in matters of religion are incensed against vs with mortall or rather with immortall hatred Whereas the controuersies betwixt vs and our Brethren are matters or rather as they call them but manners and formes of the Churches regiment Howbeit whether by sufferance or by neglect of them growen yet vnto so many heads and so sharply prosecuted not now contending so much for cappe surplesse nor for quarels at the vnlearneder sort of the poore ministers nor inuectiues against the Bishops their titles or their superiour iurisdictions only but withall calling in question all their whole authoritie their very ministery of the worde and Sacramentes and all our forme of publike prayers yea the prescription of any forme at all the alteration of all the Clergie the translation and new limitation of
plainely set foorth by any man Prooue the necessitie of the matter and we will not greatly stick vpon your Methode And would to God that which you say here of yâ— Methode ye would say it or rather obserue it of the plaine truthe it selfe and for the matter of the regiment concerning these offices that except yee can hereafter shewe which is yet not done that we are bounde by any commaundement of Christ or his Apostles vnto this your regiment of all and onely these 4. offices ye would say likewise with vs for the Gouernement established in the Church of Englande that as wee controll not other mens gouernement by ours so we would not that other mens manner of gouerning should be preiudiciall vnto ours But if ye will not haue vs controll your Methode vtter the same also in plaine wordes Our controuersie is all of the gouernement of the Church and you tell vs what Methode ye will obserue in describing the ministerie of the Churche as by which both the distinction and communication of all offices and seruices in the Church might most plainly appeare What doe ye make all offices and seruices in the Church to be of ministers Or al the offices seruices to be of gouernors How the distinction or communication of these may plainely appeare woulde haue béene somewhat more distinctly and plainely spoken As touching the reason of your request why ye would not haue your Methode controlled nor other mens methodes preiudiciall to yours I thinke it reasonable if there were no further difference then in the sorme and order of teaching of diuerse men when in matter of substance they all agree Anâ— yet in such matters as these are and so precisely vrged an vniformitie not onely of matter but also of the Order and Methode in teaching of them might perhaps haue made the matter lesse offensiue Howbeit if they all agree in matter of substance and the matter of substaunce bee true be good be necessarie which they all agree vpon so that they séeke the truthe indéede and plainnesse in their Teaching then is as they say it is but either for lacke of wit or through too much wilfulnesse if any exclaime there is no vnitie and therefore no truthe among them But when in matter and substance they differ not onely one from an-other but from themselues also then blame not men nor impute it to them that either for lacke of wit or that through too much wilfulnesse they say there is not so much vnitie and truthe among them as in matters so earnestly vrged there ought to be But now to the particuler viewe of these 4. offices Let vs then proceede in our purpose The office of Teaching is the chiefe and principall office that is in the Church By that we are taught to knowe God and howe to serue him and what benefits to looke for at his hande without which knowledge there can be no felicitie but only destruction looked for according to the saying of the wise man where prophecying faileth there the people perish Albeit the office of teaching in these respectes as to know God and how to serue him and what benefites to looke for at his handes as the ordinary cause sine qua non without which there is no knowledge and without knowledge there can be no felicity but c. may wel be said to be the chiefe and principall office that is in the Church yet in respecte of the Ecclesiasticall gouernment which is the title of all this Learned discourse vnderstanding the same truly and plainly for the gouernment in of or ouer al Ecclesiastical causes how they should be ordeined directed or disposed I take it that this office of teachers admitting it were such a distinct office by it selfe from the office of Pastors as they woulde haue it is not the chiefe and principall office in the Church In Christe him selfe are the offices of a King of a Prieste and of a Prophete And in that he was a Prophete he was a Teacher also or Doctor Which office was so necessary to reueale the will of his heauenly father that both God the father said from heauen This is my welbeloued sonne in whome I am well pleased heare him Mat 17 And Christ of himselfe Luc. 4. did reade this sentence The spirite of the Lord is vppon mee because he hath anointed mee that I shoulde preach the Gospell to the poore c. So that where no man saw God at any time except the onely begotâ—en Sonne which is in the bosome of the Father had declared him Io 1 As he saith also Io. 17. I haue giueÌ„ vnto theÌ„ the words which thou gauest mee and they haue receaued them and beleeued them c. without the which teaching there can be no felicitie but only destruction looked for as he said before in the same prayer This is life eternall to know thee to be the onelie very God and whome thou hast sent Iesus Christ yet not-with-standing the chiefe and principall office of gouerning the Churche of God was neither this high and necessary office of his teaching nor yet that of his Priesthoode which was as necessary yea and higher in the actions of the office then the other But his royall and kingly office was and is the chiefe and principall office in him And much morâ— is it in the outward regiment of the Church in Ecclesiasticall causes wherein Moses was aboue Aaron Iosue Dauid Solomon c. were aboue the high-priestes them-selues And so remaines it still except ye can shew the order of these offices of the church inuerted Of which the Papistes would be glad and vrge it harde especially from Peter wrestling there-to the thréefold saying of Christ to him Ioan. 21. Feede my Lambâ—s feede my sheepe feede my sheepe Meaning not only his gouerning but his office of Teaching which was his especial feeding of them and they driue it all to gouerning aduauncing them-selues before all Christian Princes And yet we graunt that in the action of their seuerall Ecclesiasticall function or Church ministery they are aboue all Christian Princes representing God vnto them teaching and admonishing them and all other But not aboue them in gouernment of all Ecclesiasticall causes Which is the question in controuersie now betwixt vs on the one parte and the Papists and these our owne Learned discoursing Brethren seuering them-selues from vs and adhering though not to them yet to their errour by a new deuise on the other parte The Ministery is deuided into two functions they that exercise the firste are called Pastors the other are called Doctors or Teachers I pray you my Learned discoursing Maisters for my learning héere againe let me aske this When ye desired not to bee controlled for your methode differing from others did ye include this not to be controlled though ye differ from your selues also and speake yee care not what contradictions both one against an-other and against your
Which if it were perchance many of these our Learned brethen Discoursers theirselues might fail especially in this last point being not able what soeuer they perswade theÌ„selues to defend these their owne desires and to confute vs iheir Brethren whome they take in hande to confute not of any vnholesome Doctrine which they confesse that wee professe so well as they and as for those whome they shoulde rather confute indéede as the papistes the Anabaptistes the Arians the libertines the brethren of Loue and such like mainteining not wholesom doctrine it would not onely appose them but many other yea otherwise good preachers to confute them in such order as the Apostle there requireth In the famous Nicene Counsell were assembled many notable learned Bishops and Elders and yet when it came to disputation one simple ancient father who was no preacher neither did more good in confuting a sophisticall and wrangling Phylosopher euen by the plaine recitall of the onely Creede than al the the eloquent and Learned bishops were able to doe For as the Arian philosopher sayd while they striued with words he had wordes ynough for them all But when vertue came words gaue place to vertue If it be sayde this fact was not of a Pastor but of a lay Confessor as Socrates mentioneth Hist. Tripart lib. 2. cap. 3. Which notwithstanding in Sozomenus seemeth another like fact to bee done by a Preest or Elder being also a Confessor to defend the other preests his fellowes whome another philosopher insulted vpon yet euen in the next Chapter Sozomenus mentioneth a Confutation also not much vnlike betweene a pagane phisosopher and Alexander Bishop of Constantinople For when diâ—tra of the phylosophers desired to dispute before the Emperor with the bishop and he being vnexpert in such exercise of wordes c. Notwithstanding tooke vpon him the conflict by the commandement of the Emperour When all the philosophers would speak he required them to appoint out one whom they would choose and coÌ„manded the other to hold their peace and marke what should bee spoken of them twaine Whervpon one of them vndertaking the dealing of the whole disputation the blessed Alexander saith vnto the philosopher in the name of Iesus Christ I command thee that thou speake not and as soone as he had sayd the word the deed was performed For sodainly so soone as he heard the speech his mouth being closed vp hee became speechelesse This bishop was of great vertue of life and had the gift as it appeared of myracles He could not dispute and confute the gainsayer of wholesome doctrine yet could he stop their mouthes pretily wel But if our brethren had bene there if they durst not speake for feare their mouthes had beene stopt likewise yet they woulde after haue sayde of him that being vnable to confute he was altogether vnmeete for the office of a Pastor or a byshop But those that woulde say so of suche a man were meete ynough to haue their mouthes also if not by myracle yet by authority to bee stopped rather than to open them thus at randon against many good playn and simple pastors who though they haue not the gifte of GOD with any audacitye and grace of vtterance in the pulpit make a plausible sermon to the people yet in priuate admonition in sound knowlege in sincere constant profession of the trueth can teach and perswade with their example and confute more effectually by theire life though otherwise in publike action they can doe little without their booke and yet shall some of these perhaps do more good among the people than some other eloquent and famous Preacher or Disputer or Confuter shal be able to doe I graunt these high and moste excellent gifts are to be honored with duble honor but the other are not so far to be despised as to be called altogether vnmeet for the office of a pastor or bishop Howbeit I confesse if any be altogether ignorant of the knowledge of Gods worde the same is also altogether vnmeet for the office of a pastor or bishop Hereupon our brethren set down their resolution saying Wherefore if wee euer minde such a reformation as God shall thereby be glorified his Church edified we must vtterly remoue al the vnlearned pastors as men by no means to be tollerated to haue any charge ouer the Lordes flocke and also prouide that heereafter none bee receiued into that office but such as are sufficient for their knowledge ability in teaching to take so waighty a charge in hand What a great vnthankfulnesse is this to say If euer we minde sucha reformation as God shal thereby be glorified and his church edified As who shoulde say it was neuer yet hetherto in all this Reformation of the Church eyther endeuored or so much as minded And is all this that hath béene done nothing to the glorifying of God nor to the edifying of his Church or hath it so fallen out that both God hath bene glorified therby and his Church edified and yet was neuer minded with charity to our bretheren beit spoken this their censure is too too vncharitable both of her Maiest her Maiest Brothers and Fathers mindes and reformation with all their godly Counsels endeuours and all their learned bishops and preachers trauels to these especiall purposes that God might bee glorified and his Church edified and too iniurious euen to the Glorye that God hath already gotten and the edification that the Churche namely of England hath enioyed and other Chuhches that haue in part felt no small comfort and edification therby Gods name bée more and more glorified and praysed for it But nowe imagining if wee may so harden our heartes and benumbe our senses as not to féele nor acknowledge these good blessings of God that Gods glory and his Churches edification was neuer yet sette foorth among vs nor so much as minded what is the thing they woulde haue vs doe If euer we minde such a reformation as God shal thereby be glorified and his Church edified we must vtterly forsooth remoue all the vnlearned pastors as men by no meanes to bee tollerated to haue any charge ouer the Lords flocke and also prouide that heereafter none be receiued into that office but such as are sufficient for their knowledge and ability in teaching to take so waighty a charge in hand Concerning the prouision for heereafter it is very good counsell But for those that are in office already only for that they caÌ„not publikly preach and exhorte and confute though otherwise they haue neuer so muche knowledge there is no remedy but that they must euery one be remooued and that vtterly remoued and that by no meanes to be tollerated no not to haue any charge though it be not the pastorall charge no not to be a Deacon nor a Reader nor yet a Dore-keeper ouer the Lordes flock this is a hard censure Indeede nothing so harde as one of them with more eager zeale
incurring greater inconuenience◠than our brethren would shun Then last of al in general for all this must serue the turne Or by any other godly means that may be thought meet to these godly and wise gouernors that by duty ought and by authority may do it This prouision was well reserued to the last cast and when all fayles may well serue to helpe at a pinch in stéede of all other deuises If it will bée no butter make it chéeze If it will not sadge by one meane then trie it by any other meanes Nay say our Brethren not so but by any other godly meanes And what godly meanes is that hath it no name but any other shall we depend we can not tell vpon what Any other godly meanes say they that may bee thought meete to these c. What and shall it be arbitrary that they shall thinke meete and who be they that thus shall thinke meete we cannot tell what Who These godly and wise gouernors These which be these These that by duety ought and by authority may doe it But still I desire that we might knowe by some more playne description of what state or condition these shoulde be For this is still Ignotum per ignotius Ye tell vs of gouernors and these gouernours and godly gouernors wise gouernors that by duty ought and by authority may doe it And we are neuer the wiser who they are nor what office they haue nor of what vocation they bée whether they be gouernors that are so called in this Learned Discourse of Ecclesiastical gouernment or whether ye mean any other ciuill Magistrates For it may bee easily ghessed yee meane not the Bishops Prelates nor ye meane as it should appear by these words the Queenes Maiestie And who then should these godly wise gouernors be that by duty ought and by authority may do it without the licence of their soueraigne I sée no godly no wise gouernor that may or ought or I thinke wil intermeddle in such restorings diuisions or prouisions as here in a generall name of I wot not what godly meanes nor howe nor when nor to whome nor to how many of them it may or it may not be thought meete Is not this a Learned discourse that our brethren haue here deuised for the reforming helping supplying restoring prouiding diuiding of these liuings and thus they conclude this 1. point concerning the liuings of the Pastors Let vs now sée how they deuise to help the other point for the want of learned men The lack of learned preachers must bee so farre foorth supplied as it may presently by encouraging and exhorting so many as are able to take that charge in hande by ouerseeing the readers and schollers in Diuinity in the vniuersities to doe dueties the one in teaching purely the other in learning diligently by thrusting out these vnprofitable heades of Colleges other drone Bees which eyther are vnable or vnwilling to set forwarde the studie of diuinity in their seuerall houses and placing diligent and learned gouernors and studentes in their places and by other good meanes reforming vniuersities by erecting of Doctors and teachers in as many places as may be by compelling the vnlearned Ministers in whome is anie towardnesse to become schollers in Diuinity with some allowance of liuing if they be willing to study or else to send them from whence they came to get their liuinges with sweate of their browes and especially considering the greatnesse of the haruest and fewnesse of the Laborers by praying earnestly the Lorde of the Haruest in this great necessity of ours to thrust foorth Laborers into his Haruest And in the meane time till God shall blesse vs with a sufficient number of Learned pastors to take some extraordinary and temporall order for ouerseeing the Churches that although they can-not bee all sufficientlye instructed and gouerned yet so many shall not bee altogether destitute of all knowledge and spirituall gouernement as there are now in this most corrupt state of the Church in which we haue hitherto continued If the lacke of learned Preachers must so farre forth be supplied as it may presently then must not al the pastors that are not learned Preachers be presentlie displaced Which is flat contrary to that which before so earnestly was vrged that they must no longer be retained But nowe when our brethren come more aduisedly to consider and set downe before themselues their own deuises that they would haue for remedies they begin to find confesse that which before they saw not impugned The first means that is here set down is by encouraging and exhorting so many as are aable to take that charge in hande This is good counsell adding fitnesse to ability for many are able that for diuers respects it were not fit they shold take that charge in hand But since encouragement exhortation is so good means to fit able persons thereunto would to God our brethren thēselues would follow this their own good counsell and not by these vnnecessary disturbāces discourage dehort many not only fit able to take that charge in hand but that haue taken it in hande haue both couragiously them-selues laide hande to this plowe and haue encouraged others and their heartes are nowe so discouraged their handes so weakened and falne downe yea they haue so falne awaye and pulled awaye their handes from the Plough and tylth of Gods field that withall they haue discouraged many other which are eyther become of ecclesiastical méere seculer Demas reliquit nos secutus est presens saeculū or they ar becōe Newtralles in religion yea some are become playne apostataes to the open aduersaries of the Gospell Who onelye are much encouraged hereby exhorting themselues and others to gape for the spoyles of vs both while wee thus contende and striue one with another and all they holde close together against vs. If therefore our Brethren will exhort and encourage other indéede let them first leaue off these innouations and especiallye these eager contentions for them and ioyne together with their Soueraigne Prince with the Magistrates and prelates with the lawes established like good subiectes and with vs their Brethren brotherlike in defence and aduauncing the Ecclesiasticall state of regiment that wee liue vnder and if we finde or think ought to be amisse séeke the reforming of it in such hūble charitable modest maner as beséemeth our calling without such scisme and breach of Gods and the Princes peace therefore and so shall wee discourage and daunt our aduersaries confirme our selues and withal encourage and exhort more effectually so many as shal be able and méet to take that charge in hand The seconde meanes is By ouerseeing the readers and scollers in diuinitye in the vniuersities to doe their duties the one in teaching purely the other in learning diligently This also is a good counsell But who shall be these
doctrine of the Sacraments with such exhortation to repentance and perticular application to the audience or to the coÌ„municants as to the learned Preacher himselfe shall be thought most conuenient then must either the Doctor being a Minister of the word and so of the Sacraments be such a Preacher also which our Brethren denie or else it must néeds fall out the Doctor being a Minister of the word and so of the Sacraments by our Brethrens last confession that he may administer the Sacraments which in the foresayd sense is not onelie not a Preacher but which cannot be a Preacher by their owne positions so long as hee continueth in the distinct office of a Doctor or teacher so that their selues are indéede further off in this matter than we are As for these sentences of our sauiour Christ and of Saint Paul that here to confirme their sayings they alleadge I meruaile not a little of their vnaduisâ—d handling of them For to begin with these two former in Matthew and Marke concerning Baptisme if our Brethren vrge these words so preciselie that they should inforce alwayes preaching at the verie instant of baptizing they should extort more out of the wordes than either they expresse or inferre Our sauiour Christ indéede biddeth them goe and teach all nations and telleth them also what they shall teach And Marke calleth this teaching preaching So that héere was yet no distinction of the teacher from the preacher Their teaching was preaching and their preaching was teaching Though as they had héerein a special gift so had they also a speciall office of teaching or preaching to all nations but that their teaching or preaching were it all one or distinct was alwaies ioyned together with their baptizing and both done at one time aud so commanded to be ioyntlie done how will our Brethren proue it on these sentences The text rather giues that their preaching should goe before in a seuerall action to those that were of vnderstanding and so to continue preaching or teaching til the vnbeleuing people did beleue then after that preaching to adde the other action of baptizing as a seale to confirme theÌ„ in the former And not that these wordes Goe ye forth and teach all Nations bâ—ptising them c. should be done the one while the other is a doing For although our Brethren translate these words thus to the aduantage Hee that shall beleeue and is baptised c. as though hee were baptized euen at the present instant when he beléeueth which is at the preaching yet is not this indéede so well translated but rather He that shall beleeue and shall be baptized The one action following the other yea many times in seueral both times places without anie preiudice either to the validitie of these actions or to the precept of our sauiour Christ to do them Neither followeth it that by these words we must vnderstaÌ„d both these actioÌ„s to be alwaies done by one the self same persoÌ„ S. Paul coÌ„uerted many by his preaching which became beleeuers as appeareth Actes 18.8 But Crispus the prince of the Synagogue beleeued in the Lorde withall his houshoulde and many of the Corinthians heering it beleeued and were baptized And the Lorde comforting Paule sayde hée had much people in the City So hee continued there a yeare and sixe Moneths and taught the Worde of God among them And yet Saint Paule writing afterwarde vnto them sayth 1. Corinth 1.14 c. I thanke God that I baptized none of you but Crispus and Gaius leaste any shoulde say that I baptized into mine owne name I baptized also the house of Stephanas furthermore knowe I not whether I baptized any other for Christe sent sent me not to baptize but to preache the Gospel Whereby it is moste apparant that hée all that while being there and then the onely preacher and so manye beeing conuerted and baptized and so fewe baptized by him and none might baptize but a Minister of the worde there were other Minister of the worde béeing not Preachers which did baptise them And this among other his notes on these wordes of Paule Christ sent me not to baptize but c. dooth Caluine plainlie confesse saying neither therefore doth Paule make this comparison to detract anie thing from it he speaketh of the vertue of Baptism sed quia paucorum esset docere pluribus autem baptiZare datum foret Deinde cum multi simul doceri possent baptismus auteÌ„ non nisi singulis posset conferri c But when it apperained to fewe men to teache or when as fewe men had the gift of teaching and it was giuen vnto many to baptize Moreouer when as many coulde be taught altogether but baptisme coulde not bee conferred but to euery one in order Paule that excelled in the faculty of teaching pursued the worke that was more necessary vnto him to others he left that which they were more commodiously to perfourme Yea if the Readers shall waigh all the circumstaunces more neerely they shall see there is vnder it a priuy frumpe with the which they are pleasantly nipped which of another mans labour vnder pretence of a ceremony doe hunt after a small glory The Labors of Paul in building that Church were incredible After him came these delicate masters which by the sprinkling of the Water drewe Disciples vnto their sect Paule therefore yeelding them to the Title of the honor testifieth that he is content with the burthen Whereby it is euident that although such euil Ministers abused this order to seeke their own glory yet that this order was vsed euen then among the Godly and faithfull ministers that some were preachers did not baptise except seldome and fewe on especiall occasions and some did baptise that were no preachers yet were well allowed so to doe Beside many other who though they were preachers also did often times baptise yet ioyned they not these two alwayes together in one action and often vsed the helpe of others which at the same time did not preach When Peter at one sermon Act. 2. conuerted so many hee counselled them to bée baptized and saith the text ver 41. They that gladly receiued his worde were baptized and the same day there were added to the Church about 3000. soules Is it likely that Peter did baptise euery one of these and al of them him selfe that day or rather that the other Apostles aud Disciples though they all at the same time preached not did help S. Peter to baptise them Neither is it likely that they were baptized at the present action of the sermon nor in that place where the sermon was as it is thought in mount Sion but that they went vnto some other place in or néere the City more conuenient for baptizing such a multitude And although Philip were himselfe Actes 8. both the preacher and the baptizer yet can wée not conceiue howe he alone shoulde baptize such a
freely as then they did All that are present if they list doe communicate and both the kindes are deliuered vnto all It is not sent vnto those that are absent because superstition hath corrupted that custome they sent it then to those that were whole vnto strangers that came not into the assembly at this day onely to those that are readie to dye and that for a certaine lucre and aduantage yea adde this vnto it with a vaine persuasion of a kinde of necessarie passeport A collection is made for the poore and euery one giueth as much as hee will saue that our folkes will giue too too little The action is not mute or dombe but the hystory of the passion is recited Priuate voices or the speeches of priuate persons come not hereunto for because of moderate or comly order They approch he speketh of the order in his countrie at Bernes and it is receaued of them standing for the Paschall Lambe was eaten of them that stoode howbeit neither makes it any matter whether the communicantes stande or sitte nor yet if they knéele as is the order of our Church This briefly sayeth Aretius is our action not vnlike Iustines By which description of Iustine and conference of ours and of the Heluetians order of administring the supper of the Lorde we most plainely perceaue our Brethrens no small errour in this that not content with all these thinges in the supper of the Lorde if a Preacher make not a sermoÌ„ also at the ministration of the same they not onely count it not sufficiently done but they frustrate and euacuate all the action Hereupon our Brethren make this conclusion saying Howe intollerable an abuse then is it of the sacramentes of the Lord to committe the administration of them to those men that are not able to expounde the mysterie of them This conclusion standes all on that worde able which wee haue sufficiently I hope aunswered before saue that here in this conclusion it is more ambigiously referred to expounding than in the premisses For by the abilitie to expounde the mysterie of the sacramentes may be ment eyther the preaching which notwithstanding is to be wished that euerie Minister were able so to expounde the mysterie of them if it pleased God so to graunt it although alwayes they so did not or else their abilitie of discrete setting foorth those expositions of these sacraments that are prescribed in the publike forme of their ministration or other godly expositions of other learned meÌ„ authorized to be read at the same times the ministers themselues being though not able with any commendable gift of publike eloquence to treate at large vpon them and so expounde the mysterie of them yet able well inough to shewe vnto the people or to any that aske them plainely and briefely the summe and principall content of the mystery of them In which sorte I trust the simplest minister of them all is able to expounde the mysterie of them or else no Bishop or ordinarie would permitte him to serue any neuer so small a cure or any other would allowe him any stipende at all thereunto if he be conâ—icted of such inhabilitie So that this intollerable abuse eyther is not in vse at all or at least in any Minister not allowed by any lawe or constitution nowe in force but that such vnable Ministers may be remooued and other more able placed although they cannot expound the mystery of the same by publike preaching But nowe let our Brethren procéede to their further arguments and proues on this matter And seeing the elements of the world of which the outward part of the sacraments is taken be dead beggerly of themselues except they be animated and enriched with the promise and word of God which is the life of the sacrameÌ„ts what can it be better then sacrilege to separate the ministration of preaching of the word from the sacraments If the elements of the world be separated froÌ„ the promise word of God opposed against it these termes dead beggerly might better sitte theÌ„ And so S. Paul called the ceremonies sacraments of the old law elemeÌ„ts of the world not after Christ Coll. 2.8 and so Caluine expouÌ„ds those words saying But what calleth he the elementes of the worlde No dout but ceremonies For straight after in place of exaÌ„ple he bringeth in one kind to wit Circumcision And also Gal. 49. S. Paule calleth the ceremonies of the Iewes weake beggerly elemeÌ„ts The which he doth sayth Caluin because he coÌ„sidereth them without Christ yea rather against Christ. For to the fathers they were not only healthful exercises helps of godlines but also effectuall instrumeÌ„ts of grace But their whole force was in Christ and in the institution of God But the false Apostles neglecting the promises would oppose them against Christ as though Christ alone sufficed not No maruell therefore if Paul repute theÌ„ trifles things of no value Now if the outward signe or element in the sacrament be thus vsed among vs that is to say be destitute of the word of the institution of the promise of the remembrance of Christ yea of Christ himselfe be opposed against Christ then are these spéeches of worldly dead and beggerly elements well alleaged and truly applyed against our sacraments For true it is that Saint Augustine tractatu in Ioh. 80. sayth You are now cleane for the worde that I spake vnto you why sayth he not Ye are cleane for the baptisme with the which yee are washed But sayth for the word which I haue spoken vnto you But that also in the water the worde cleanseth Take away the worde and what is water but water The worde commeth to the element and it is made a sacrament yea as it were euen a visible word For verely he sayd this also when he washed the Disciples feete He that is washed needeth not saue that he wash his feete but is cleane throughout From whence commeth this so great a vertue to the water that it toucheth the bodie and washeth the heart except that the word doe it not because it is spoken but because it is beleeued For in the worde it selfe also the sounde passing is one thing and the vertue remayning is another thing This is the worde of faith the which we preach sayth the Apostle because if thou shalt confesse in thy mouth that Iesus is the Lorde shall beleeue in thy heart that God raysed him vp from the dead thou shalt be safe For with the heart it is beleeued vnto righteousnesse but with the mouth confession is made vnto saluation Whereupon wee reade in the Actes of the Apostles clensing their heartes by faith And the blessed Peter in his Epistle sayeth So hath baptisme also made you safe not the putting off the filth of the flesh but the interrogation of a good conscience This is
vnto vs it is altogether one with vs and wee with him c. Héere againe he maketh another kinde of preaching which he saith is the Lorde him-selfe in steede of a moste effectuall exhortation to witte the communicating of his body vnto vs. And this preaching againe God be praysed we haue in the Ministration of this sacrament Nowe héereupon hée commeth to the thirde kinde of preaching at this sacrament sayth Sect. 36. From hence is best of al confirmed that which otherwher I said that the right administration of the sacrament is contained i◠the word For what profite soeuer commeth into vs out of the supper requireth the word Whether we are to bee confirmed in fayth or to be exercised in Confession or to bee stirred vp to our duty there is need of preaching Nothing therefore can be done more preposterous in the Lordes supper then if it be turned into a mute or dumb action the which thing was done vnder the tyranny of the Pope For they wold haue all the force of the consecration to hang vppon the sacerdotall Priestes intention as though this appertayned nothing to the people to whome this mystery ought moste of all to haue bene layde open And heereupon was this error bred that they marked not those promises where-with the consecration is made not to bee directed to the elementes them-selues but vnto those that doe receiue them truely Christ speaketh not vnto the breade that it shoulde be made his body but he biddeth his Disciples eate and to them hee promiseth the communicating of his body and his bloude Neither doth Paule teache another order then that together with the breade and the Cuppe the promises shoulde bee offered to the faithfull Thus certainely it is Here it becommeth not vs to immagine any magicall incantation that it might bee enough to haue murmured vp the wordes as though they were hearde of the elementes but wee shoulde vnderstande those wordes to bee a liuely preaching that edifieth the herers that pierseth into their minds that is imprinted and sitteth in their heartes that may bring foorth an efficacie in the fulfilling of that that it promiseth By these reasons it is euident that the reseruing or laying vp of the sacrament which some vrge to be extraordinarily distributed to the sicke is vnprofitable For eyther they shall receiue it without reciting of the institution of Christ or els the Minister shall ioyne together with the signe the true explication of the mystery In silence is an abuse and vice If the promises bee rehearsed and the mistery declared so that those that are to receiue shal receiue it with fruit there is no doubt but that this is a true consecration Thus saith Caluine of this third kind of preaching Now if this be as hee saith a true consecration where the wordes are not muttered to the element but spoken to the Communicants the mystery laid forth before them and the promises recited and that wee must vnderstande those wordes of Christe to be such a liuely edifying and effectuall kinde of preaching all which are so clearely set forth whensoeuer this sacrament is of any Minister with vs celebrated can our brethren say that here wanteth the ministration of preaching the word so much as is necessary and sufficient to make a true consecration of the sacrament True it is that when Caluin comes to the ful conclusion of this treatise he reckons vp a fourth kind of preaching sect 70. Concluding thus So farre as pertaineth to the holy supper it mought thus moste decently be administred if that most often and at the leaste euery weeke it were set forth vnto the Church But the beginning should be made with publike prayers after which a sermon should be had than the Minister the bread wine being set forth on the table shoulde reherce the institution of the supper Then should he declare the promises which are left vnto vs in the same And withal he should excommunicate all those that by the Lordes forbidding are put backe Afterwarde prayer should be made that with what benignity the Lorde hath giuen vnto vs this holy nourishment he woulde also enstruct and frame vs with faith thankfulnes of mind to receiue the same And sith that we be not of our selues he wold of his mercy make vs worthy of such a banquet But here either the psalmes should be song or somewhat read and the faithfull shoulde communicate of this holy foode in such order as is seemely the ministers breaking the breade and deliuering it vnto the people The Lordes supper being done an exhortation shoulde be had for sincere faith c. Thus doth Caluin write of al the order that he wold haue obserued in the administration of the Lords supper Nowbeit he prescribeth it not to any Church but onely saith it mought be thus administred moste decently And although hee mention that a sermon should be had before it and an exhortation after it séeming to make some difference betwéene them yet whether such a sermon or exhortation may be had as if a preacher want may be of the Minister red vnto the people of anothers making that he doth not expresse Nor yet whether the preacher or reader of the same must alwayes be the partie that ministreth the sacrament So heere is also nothing set down but that we already haue in vse his wordes being thus vnderstood except the excommunicating of all those that by the Lordes forbidding are put back Neither doe wee thinke it necessary that either excommunication should be then vsed or that all those should be excommunicated that by the Lords forbidding are put back from this supper For so euery one that is not in charity with his neighbors shold forthwith be excommunicate But sith Caluin so modestly in these things onely telleth what he thinketh mought be a most comely manner of the administratiō preiudicating no other reformed churches let Geneua with good leaue of vs follow this order And let vs in Gods name follow our Communion Booke which me thinkes both conteineth the most and chéefest of all these things and in a farre more decent order for our state Yea the booke of the orders of Geneua maketh the Deacons also ministers of the cup and why not aswell of the Breade and of all both partes as well as of one and yet they wil not permit them to be Preachers Musc. in his cōmon places De coena domini vpon this title by whome the Supper of the L. shold be administred with the like modestly that Caluin saith on this wise I know that this is the custome in some churches that the ministers of the word exercise the place of the prophets doctors in the mean time they leaue the administration of the sacraments to the parish preests curates of the people as they tearm them with the deacons Notwithstanding that custome ought not to preiudicate other churches in which the dispensers of the
sacraments are the same that are the dispēsers of the word so that they execute both the parts of the ministery Otherwise it shold be cōuenient that according to the saying of the apostles act 6 they shoulde apply them-selues to praiers administring doctrine leauing the ministery of the tables Seeing that many mo may be had that can dispense the sacraments than those which can rightly cut sound doctrine in the church By which testimony of Musc by the very order prescribed euen in Geneua It plainly appeareth that not only in these reformed Churches many are admitted to minister the Sacr. that are not able to preach but that also this was the vse of the primitiue Church in the apostles times Which ouerthrows al that our breth haue hereon alleaged Neither helpeth it to say that yet stil this taketh not away but that there should be preaching vsed at the administratiō of the sacramēt thogh the minister of the sacramēt be no preacher For our breth said the administration of the sacramentes ought to be committed to none but vnto such as are preachers of the worde c. pag. 60. But for this that they say here also It is no better then sacriledge to seperate the ministratiō of preaching of the worde from the sacramentes so harde a spéeche following Musculus procéeding with the minister of this Sacrament though hée bée no preacher of the worde yet he requireth in him such a competency as hath a triple respect both to the person that he sustaineth and of the matter that he administreth and of the people to whome he communicateth After he hath shewed for the first part howe he shoulde be no lewd person but sober and vertuous comming to the secōd respect in him he saith Furthermore hee ministreth it competently if hee haue a consideration of those thinges which hee dispenseth and doe worthily frame himselfe vnto them Hee dispenseth the communicating of the bodye and bloude of Christe The breade which wee breake saith the Apostle Is it not the communicating of the body of the Lorde And the Cup of the blessing ouer which wee blesse is it not the communicating of the bloude of the Lorde 1. Cor. 10. Thus therefore shall hee competently administer this sacrament that it may be a communicating not that it shoulde be a holy priuate thing He dispenseth the remembrance of the Lorde or as Augustine in a certaine place speaketh the sacrament of memory This shall he do competently if he shall adioin vnto the mysticall communicating the shewing forth of the L. death according to the worde of the Apostle who sayth so often as ye eate this bread and drink of the Cup yee shewe foorth the Lordes death till he come For so did hee ordaine this custome in the Church of the Corinthians It is not fit that it should be a dumb communicating Either let some thing be read before the people or bee sung concerning the historye of the death of the Lorde as it is begun to be done in very many churches in our age Hee dispenseth the Euchariste he Euchariste is a giuing of thankes and a sacrifice of prayse Let him therefore haue a care that this holy communion may be closed vp with publike giuing of thanks He dispenseth the loue feast that is the banquet of brotherly loue It is meete therfore that a cleare exercise of Christian loue and mutuall communicating shoulde bee adhibited Vnto the which hee ought not onely with exhortations in the act it selfe to enstruct and accustome them but also with constitutions of a certaine order These are the principall thinges of which the dispenser of the Lordes table ought cheefely to haue a care and consideration whereby hee may apply him-selfe competently vnto this sacrament The third respect is of the people communicating which the more simple ruder they are so much the simplier must the minister speake of the mystery of the Lordes supper that he may apply him-selfe to their capacity But he must by all meanes take heede of those two vices that entrap the people to witte superstition and contempt Superstition least the people worship and adore that for the thing it selfe that is the signe thereof contempt least they sticke onely in the breade and Wine not discerning the body and bloude of the Lorde and therefore contemne it vnderstanding nothing beyond the iugdement of the eyes because by sight and taste they perceiue it to bee bread and Wine Such a point did Augustine giue warning of in his booke of Catechizing the rude in the ninth chapter where he saith thus Concerning the sacrament that they shall receiue it sufficeth for those that are more prudent to heare what that thing signifieth but with the duller sort it must with more wordes and similitudes be treated vpon least they contemne that which they see These thinges wrot he To conclude hee must take heede that hee swerue not either to the Corinthians or to the papists in this cause of the Lordes Supper And to the entent that the people not onely with the hande and mouth but with faith and heart may receiue that which is giuen let him declare all thinges that are to bee spoken in the vulgare and vsuall tongue not onely the exhortations but also the wordes of the Lordes institution the Prayers also and the thankesgiuing whereby the people may vnderstand all and in their heart assent thereto according to the Apostles admonition 1. Cor. 14. Thus wée sée how although the Minister be no preacher but beeing a discreete and vertuous man in all these foresaide respectes and obserue these exhortations which are both plentifully set out in Homilies and in the Communion Booke it selfe and the other thinges here noted in such order as the communicantes may vnderstande and beléeue the same although there bee no other sermon preached yet is the Sacrament truely and effectually administred Neyther can these thinges with the residue that he setteth downe bee vnderstood for the onelie action of a Preacher confessing and allowing that manie Ministers not Preachers may minister this Sacrament and yet in euery one that ministreth the same al these thinges are requisite For what is plainer than this argument out of Musculus sayinges Musculus thinketh and prooueth that it is not necessarie that euery one which administreth the Sacraments should be a Preacher and preach at the ministration of them But Musculus thinketh and prooueth it necessarie that all thinges ought to bee done by the minister at the Ministration of them which here he reckoneth vp Therefore Musculus thinketh and prooueth that all these thinges might bee done of one that is no preacher and without a sermon then preached of these matters If our Brethren wil denie the maior for the minor I thinke they wil not I referre them to Musculus and his reason out of Actes 6. and to the reformed Churches that hee meaneth It sufficeth for vs to prooue both by him and by
else it is not to that purpose all which things if they be not done then God be with you for any sacraments that may be administred None must be baptized there nor anye neuer so godly disposed and desirous to come to the Lords table shall finde any crome of comfort to refresh his hungry soule there Though also the minister would neuer so faine baptize the poore infantes of the faithfull parents and breake the Lordes breade and deliuer the Lordes cup vnto other hunger-starued and thirstie soules no they must be packing and goe home againe emptie no sacramentes shall there be ministred Per quam regulam What a rule is there here why the poore faithfull people should be thus debarred of these holy sacramentes For-sooth our Brethren haue set downe a rule and a finall conclusion that ouer-ruleth and knitteth vp all this case Ye can haue no sacraments at all And why I pray you It is a plaine case there is no minister to administer them No That there is we haue a minister readie to doe it What Is he a preacher No but he is an honest vertuous sober and painefull man in his function and he is a good scholler too and studious and can reade and so he doth verie faire that all the parish may plainely vnderstande him and hee catechiseth our children diligently and we sitte by and here it to our great comforte and edification and he can and doth giue vs also in priuate as hée séeth cause very good counsell when we come vnto him and hee comes to vs when we are sicke and maketh very good exhortations in priuate and if néede be admonisheth vs in secret yea and openly also of our faults and calleth vpon vs often to come to the diuine seruice and to heare him reade the homilies and other good sermons and to receaue these holy sacramentes that we would now haue Tush a point for all this Is he a preacher No. He hath no gift at all to edifie vs that wayes as you mean preaching Why then we haue a flat rule that he ought to minister no sacraments For where is no preacher of the word there ought to be no minister of the sacramentes Would not this rule make a faire rule if thinges were ouer-ruled on this fashion But how long now shall the people be thus debarred Till we can get preachers for euery seueral congregation But that our Brethren haue examined alreadie and found and confessed that it can not bée done presently and it will not be done in haste to furnish so many places no though we should cleane disfurnish the nurseries of all our preachers Nor euery one is to be allowed a Preacher that hath learning inough vtterance and audacitie except he haue the grace of God inough also to be as S. Paul calleth him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 one that diuideth aright the word of truth So the many should not be admitted to be prechers that in their own opinions in many others among our Brethren are holden for ioly and plausible preachers And how then should all those places doe till preachers were prouided for them Our Brethren told vs before of a helpe pag. 56. when they had willed vs to pray to the Lorde of the haruest to thrust forth labourers into his haruest yet doubting least they should not haue thē by by thrust in they said and in the meane time till God blesse vs with a sufficient nūber of learned Pastors to take some extraordinary tēporall order for ouer-seeing the Churches that although they cannot be al sufficiently instructed gouerned c. And what now Is this one of these extraordinary temporall orders that shall be taken in the meane time that there shal be no sacraments at all administred to the poore people in all those places That were a handsome extraordinary order with all my heart It were pittie such a tēporall order in the mean time till preachers could be gottē to be in euery seuerall congregation should haue any temporall continuance of so long time Yet better is halfe a loase thā no bread Yea we may haue the whole lose wel inough as vnprouided as we be cut aright also though not with so fine a knife as hath a learned preacher But this heauenly bread of the Lordes table he may the casilier breake deliuer being broken before hand to his hand And especially minister the sacramēt of baptisme if he be a minister at all of which sacrament there is somewhat more necessitie though not absolute than of the L. supper But for euery congregation to tary till they haue a preacher of their owne to doe these thinges vnto them besides the iniurie offred not so much to the present ministers as to the people not only for the present state but wee can not tell for howe long time to come so to be debarred would not this goe néere to bring in Anabaptistrie Either by kéeping backe the infants from baptisme till they had a preacher to be their Pastor vnder pretence of no such necessitie as may endaunger their saluation because they haue not a preacher to baptize them so to tary til they can answere for thēselues as the Anabaptistes say they ought to do admit none other yea and perhaps they may so stay frō baptism longer as a thing at al not so necessary or else to hastē all places furniture with this necessitie of preachers more then of baptisme so to shooue in a number of bolde vnlearned mē taking vpon thē to be preachers which may bréede as daungerous a point as the other And when all this is done for such an absolute necessitie of preachers will not this hereticall opiniō of the Papists go néere to créepe in after of opus operatum while we stande so necessarily on opus operantis pressing so hard on this new coyned Canon For where there is no preacher of the word there ought to be no minister of the sacramentes But our Brethren say they are of suche affinitie preaching and the ministration of the sacraments that the accessorie cannot be separated from the principall thereof Which is here the accessorie which the principall For they name it not but thinke that it is so apparant that it must go away without touch of breast that the preaching is the principall and the administration of the sacramentes is the accessorie But by their leaue we must withall consider this that although it may be well sayde when the one of these is compared to the other the office of preaching is the more excellent than the office of ministration of the sacramentes yet when it commeth to the ministration of the sacramentes then is the woorde and promise thereof including the matter promised which is called res sacramenti the thing of the sacrament that is Christe himselfe and his death set foorth and our vniting vnto him the principall and most excellent
to him as yet they haue not hetherto done nor at this present doe And by his grace wée shal not need to feare that they will euer giue any like occasion of such inconuenience for the time to come heereafter But our brethren to terrifie vs with this terrible example as those that are already growne into the danger of the Romish Church abuses do apply their example saying For is not this opinion alreadie growne into a great many mens heades that the Seruice maie not giue place to a Sermon no though the time bee not sufficient for both And are there not manye that had muche rather heere a chaunted Mattens and Euensonge than a godlye and learned Sermon yea they frequent the one refuse the other These things me thinkes are spoken a little too captiously if they will pardon my too playnnesse on the other side in this tearme that the seruice meaning the diuine seruice or publike prayer should giue place vnto a Sermon For the time and occasion of daunger may bee suche that there may be more néede of publike prayer to those that are already grounded in faith which at other times before they hearde out of the worde than of hearing a Sermon at that instant But if there be no such necessitie to imploy the time wholly in Prayer as the Apostles did when Herod had caught Peter and put him in prison Act. 12. ver 5. and when the Israelites in their afflictions did so often cry vpon God to send them helpers I do not think that this opinion is growne into a great many mens heades meaning the Protestants that the Seruice may not giue place to a sermon though the time be not sufficient for both For although they do well zealously to loue the diuine seruice deuoutly to make their publike prayers vnto God religiously to heare his holy word which also at the same time is publikly reade vnto them yet if they may haue withall a godly learned sermon there are no good Protestants but they would wish with all their hartes if the streightnesse of the time as our brethren héere say be not sufficient for both that some part of the seruice shoulde bee lefte off and giue place to the preaching and hearing of the godlye Sermon And there are such prouisoes in the booke of common prayer already prouided for that purpose yea though there were no other Sermon but an Homilie But our brethren not content with this that the diuine seruice should be cut the shorter to the ende that the Sermon might be the longer would haue the diuine seruice to giue place to the sermon that is to say the one comming in the place of the other the diuine Seruice shoulde bee thrust cleane out of place that all the place and all the time might be taken vp of the sermon If they meane not so then will our prouisoes sufficiently serue the turne and the Sermon shall haue place and time inough and welcome whensoeuer it commeth yea the seruice also will giue some place and yet not be turned out of place For howsoeuer it may fall out at some odd times in which also the whole seruice giues the whole place and resignes vp all the time yet ordinarily there is time and place so sufficient for both that the one néede not shoulder out the other And a sober Preacher will modestly tarry his due time and let the publike prayer and diuine seruice procéede on a Gods name till it come to his conuenient opportunity to preach As S. Paule and Barnabas accustomed to do Which appeareth Act. 13. ver 14.15 c VVhen they departed from Perga they came to Antiochia a citie of Pisidia and went into the synagogue on the Saboth day and sat downe And after the lecture of the Lawe and the Prophetes the Rulers of the synagogue sent vntothem saying Ye men brethren if ye haue any word of exhortation for the people say on Then Paule stoode vp and beckened with his hande and said Men of Israell and yee that feare the lord hearken c. By which it appeareth not onely that they had an ordinary forme of the diuine seruice and publike prayer and a reading of the lawe and the Prophetes although ordinarilye they had no sermon and yet were ready to heare one whensoeuer any such fatherly men came among them which appeared vnto them to haue the gifte of God to expounde his word vnto them and to giue them some comfortable exhortation therupon yet as they stinted not this ordinary exercise of the diuine seruice though no such extraordinary Preachers came vnto them so when they admitted them and desired them as glad of them yet they made not their diuine seruice to giue place to them ceased their ordinary publike prayers or the lectures of the Law and the Prophetes But after these things done then they offered them license to preach and requested them to giue them exhortations And euen as they vsed this moderation order in the hearing of the diuine seruice of the Sermons so S. Paule tarieth while their publike prayers and their Lessons out of the law and the Prophets were ended and then he satisfieth their request and so entreth into his sermon And if all our brethren Preachers would marhe and follow this example all good men would like better of their modesty And perhaps the rashnesse vndiscretion of some to cut of all the diuine seruice and ordinary forme of publike prayers and so to bring the same into contempt to haue themselues heard in the Pulpit might bréede such an opinion in many mens heades Although this opinion also mighte bee growne into a great many mens heades on other occasions that the seruice may not giue place to a sermō no though the time be not sufficiēt for both But is their infirmity be it a wrong or right opinion a sufficient reason to take the publike prayers and the diuine seruice cleane away or that there should be no forme therof at all or being rightly vsed with a moderate time y◠time also sometime abridged to giue the more place vnto the sermon may that be truly said to thrust out preaching As for chaunting of the Mattens and Euensong if to chante bee that which in latine is Cantare in English our proper worde is to sing and the Psalmes and Hymnes and other ioyfull or dolefull ditties as our brethren their selues do vse may be sung and Mattens and Euensong are but the vsuall tearmes of the matutine or morning euening ordinary publik diuine seruice thē is it not vnlawful to heare euē a chanted Mattens and Euensong so that the chaunting or singing of them take not away the edifying by them Especially when no other kynde of matter is sung or chaunted but such as our brethren cannot deny if their owne senses be not enchaunted but may be chaunted well inough As for the Lessons they are
read the confessions the collects or briefe publike prayers in the Mattens and Euensong they are said But our brethren demaunde Are there not many that had much rather heere a chaunted mattins and Euensong then a godly and learned Sermon Uerily in my opinion to aunswere vpright I thinke there are not many nor anie meaning godly zealous protestants learned or vnlearned that so had rather I graunt of other sorts there may bee many that so had rather But doth this followe héereupon that although there bee many which had rather heare the one than the other that therefore wée should take the one or the other cleane away may they not rather sithe both of them in their degrées are lawfull and good heare both the one the other too or if they can not come to heare the one should they therfore refuse the other also so heare neither But this is that which they charge them for yea say our brethren they frequent the one and refuse the other If any so frequent the hearing of the diuine seruice that hee refuse to heare a godly and learned sermon when he may come to the hearing of it he is greatly to blame But then let our brethren looke to it on the other side how they their sâ—lues will escape blamelesse which when they may heare both the ordinary diuine seruice of publike prayer a godly learned Sermon too will vnder pretence of hearing the sermon refuse to heare the ordinary diuine seruice of the publike prayer Nowe for proofe héereof that many among vs are faultie in frequenting the diuine seruice and refusing the sermon they say Let Cathedrall Churches c. bee an example where you shall see a great number that tarry while the Seruice is sung but depart as soone as the sermon beginneth To proue these instances alleaged Cathedrall Churches muste bee the example For what place they meane by this c. wee may rather coniecture than they dare vtter And it may bee that some doe so And yet if their so dooing bee so ordinarie that they be noted therof noted thereof they are called into question for the same But howsoeuer it may be in some it is not so I am sure in all Cathedrall Churches but rather the cleane contrary When they come to the Cathedral church not so much to heare the Seruice as the Sermon For they heard the Seruice before in their Parish Churches Which done they come to the Cathedrall church that almoste after the Seruice done there also vnto the Sermon which at the least euery sonday is there preached And this I take to be the order in the most part of Cathedrall and Collegiate or such other principal Ch. or chappels throughout the Realme Where ye shal not sée many at the Seruice soong but towards the ending of the seruice or so soone as the sermoÌ„ begnnieth in flocks they draw thither yea there is order takeÌ„ if they would not that they should And therfore this is quite contrary But our brethr to help their foorth procéede to the Organes While the Organes pipe some are drawne with the swetnesse of musike to come vp but while the preacher cryeth out continue beneath and in laughter or brawling be lowder than he often times If the piping of the Organes drawe them with the sweetnesse of the musick to come vp to heare the diuine seruice then is there yet some good vse thereof except it be better to driue them from it than to draw them to it If they continue beneath while the Preacher cryeth out then in the most cathedrall Churches as likewise generally in Parish Churches the Preacher for the most part comming downe vnto them they may heare him not the worse but the better and hee may crie not the lowder but the lower the most part of the Sermons being preached in the bodye of the Church among the people And if in some fewer places he preach in the Quyre then shall ye not lightly haue many beneath in the body of the Churche especiallie of such as come to the Church to heare diuine Seruice One Church indéede there is that I haue séene and which I take our brethren especially meane where many resorte partly but for a thorough passage and partly to walke vp and downe almost all day long spending the time beneath in talking or bargaining or other worldly matters but these do so as much at the diuine seruice as at any Sermon in the Quéere aboue But commonly there the sermon is preached in the Church-yard and that with a great assembly of other Parishes where they had no Sermon yea though they had a Sermon many of them in their owne or in other Parishes besides And al that while that the Sermon is in that churchyarde none is permitted to walke or to abide in the Cathedrall Churche And if the Sermons that are in the Church were so prouided also I speak but my opinion and vnder correction that they were made in the bodye of the Church and the walkers vp and downe by some good particuler order were prohibited there is no good person that frequenteth the diuine seruice but would as wel like of it as our brethren And good preachers thâ—t are conformable and obedient to the Ecclesiasticall gouernement lawes established of the Church of England and that say their selues the prescribed forme of publike prayers and diuine seruice haue oftentimes called on the reforming of it Which if it were done yet may all this Ecclesiasticall gouernment superiority of Bishops office of Pastors administration of sacraments and prescribed forme of diuine seruice continue notwithstanding as intier and forcible as it doth And yet the body beneath of the Cathedrall Church is so separated from the Quier aboue that the actions and assemblies in the Quire neither at the seruice nor sermons nor Lectures is disturbed by any passengers beneath saue that their vnnecessary and idle walking all that while is offensiue I hope it wil be remedied But in generall for all Cathedrall Churches Collegiat Paroeciall or any other if any in laughter or brawling be lowder or vse any voluntary misdemeanor whatsoeuer in the Church especially to the disturbance of the diuine seruice or of the sermon as they were better away thaÌ„ there so there are lawes penalties already prouided for the chastisment of such disordered persons If they be not executed the fault is in the officers And me thinkes our brethren their selues would become better officers fitter to be made Church-wardens Syde-men or Sextens to look to the execution of the Lawes that in this behalfe are already made than that they can or do set downe any better new lawes to mend this matter in this their Learned discourse of Ecclesiasticall gouernement But now vppon these abuses where any such are thinking vtterly to deface our publike forme of diuine seruice they héere disclose the effect of their meaning in their former examples
No man may take vpon him any honoure in the Churche of God but hee that is called of God as was Aaron Insomuch that Christe him-selfe did not giue himselfe to be an high Priest but he that said vnto him Thou art my sonne this day haue I begotten thee Hee saith in another place Thou art a preest for euer after the order of Melchizedech Nowe seeing these rules are so general that the Sonne of God him-selfe was not exempted from them but shewed foorth the decree wherein he was authorised by what rule can any man retaine that authority in the church of God which is not called thereto by the word of God All this againe being graunted vnto beateth more our Brethren the Learned Discoursers that it doth our Bishops Our Brethren take vpon them more in these their pretended reformations than eyther they haue hetherto done or I think euer wil be able to shew their warrant and calling authorizing them thereunto by the worde of God Likewise we can alleage againe against the supremacy of the Pope to proue that Peter was not superior to the other Apostles that which our sauiour Christe saith to his Apostles Luke 22.26 And Math. 20.25 Marke 10.42 It shall not bee so among you but hee that is greatest amongst you shal be as the yongest and he that ruleth as he that serueth And Mat. 23.8 You haue but one Master which is Christ and all you are all brethren If these places prooue that the Pope ought not to bee aboue other Ministers of the Church why doe they not likewise prooue that the Ministers are equall among them-selues And for the moste part all those arguments and authorities of Scripture that are vsed to confute the vsurped authority of the Pope are of as great force against all other vsurped authorities of one pastor ouer another These sentences of our sauiour Christe hauing béene before alleaged by our Brethren page 28. 29. haue beene already sufficiently aunswered that they neither forbid the titles nor the authority that we acknowledge in our Bishops by the confession of the best writers euen among our Brethren themselues Which sentences as they are rightly alleaged against the supremacy of the Pope to prooue that Peter was not such a superior to the other Apostles as the Papistes doe pretend so are they not rightly alleaged to prooue that he haâ— neuer any kinde of superiority but no such kinde of superiority as the pope falsely claymeth in the name of Peter For not onely all the auncient Fathers and all the best writers acknowledge as we haue séene some superiority in Peter such as contrarieth not these sentences but also S. Paule is moste plaine herein that S. Peter had a kinde of superiority if not to all yet to many of the other Apostles And for these sentences as we haue already at large considered the peyse of them so the first sentence heere cited alloweth in playne words both a Ruler among them and a greatest so that hee bee in humilitie and seruiceablenesse as courteous and diligent as if he were yongest or as hee that serueth The other place here cited You haue but one Master which is Christe and al you are Brethren prooueth clearely that the Pope ought not to claime that mastership which he requireth but it proueth not that were he otherwise a true a true faithfull Bishop hee might haue no Mastership at all for than our Brethren might not be called Masters neither as we and that worthily call M. Caluine M. Beza c. Masters But this sentence is against the Pope not against them because the pope not they woulde intrude him-selfe into that absolute and supreme Mastership and Lordship Which properly and onely belongeth to our Lorde and Master Iesus Christ. But our brethren demaund why doe they not likewise prooue that the Ministers are equall among themselues And so they do in respect of the supreme Mastership of Christe and in respect simply of their Ministery but the reason why they proue not such an equality as our brethren surmise is because they are spoken absolutely against all kinde of superiority and Mastership among them And therefore where they say that for the most part al those arguments and authorities of scripture that are vsed to confute the vsurped authoritie of the pope are of as great force against all other vsurped authorities of one pastor ouer another Although this be but a loose consequent yet we may well graunt this conclusion for vsurped authorities But till our Brethren can prooue some such among vs as are vsurped al these sentences argumeÌ„ts and authorities are but vsurped and wrested against their authority which is lawfull Therefore while we entreate of the authority of the Pastors we must take heede that we open not a Windowe to popish tyranny in steede of Pastorall authority and that wee enlarge not the bounds of authority without the boundes of the scripture We also like well the caueat of this conclusion Woulde God our brethren would in-déede take heede vnto it For if it be not taken heede vnto in time their Pastorall authoriâ—â— wâ—ll so enlarge the boundes thereof that it will not onely tyrannize ouer the authority of the Doctors whom they cleane debarre from all publike exhortation reprehension conselation and application and ouer all their Seniory of newe Gouernors as wee shall God willing see in this Discourse but ouer all the Church And it beginneth pretily well to abbridge the Christian Princes and ciuill Magistrates supreme authority in ecclesiasticall causes as in part wee haue already seene and al without the bounds of the scripture But this their Pastorall authority by that time their gouerning Seniory were euery where setled and established and had enlarged her boundes in euerye Congregation woulde bee méetely well repressed as we haue séene in the forme of prayers printed at Geneua And thus woulde one enlarge it self â—uer another which might open not a windowe but the broad gates to a worse than Popish tyrannie and still all without the boundes of the Scripture Wherefore while we search the scripture the onely rule whereby the Church of God ought to be gouerned we finde that in regiment gouernance of the Church the pastor B. or elder hath none authority by himselfe seperated from other For in the Church there ought to be no Monarchie or sole absolute gouernment but that is referred particularly to our sauiour Christe onely â—2 Tim. 6.7 Iude. 4. Christe sayth search the scriptures for in them ye reckon vnto your selues that ye haue eternall life and they bear witnesse of me Iohn 5.39 In searching the scripture we finde this rule where the Apostle warneth Timothy But abide thou in those thinges which thou haste learned and which are of trust committed vnto thee Knowing of whome thou hast learned them and that thou hast from a childe knowne the holy
abuse and pollution beeing expreslie abolished and onely a good purpose and vse of them decreed the same are as much besides for the goodnesse of the purpose and vse for the verie authoritie of the decree to be for the time as farre foorth receyued as the other meates beeing otherwise lawfull in them-selues yet being for good purposes and vses of them by the authoritie of the decree for the time forbidden were then and for that time to be refused But that was done also say they for the forbearing the weaknes of the Iewes in abstinencie from eating bloud and strangled which was forbiddeÌ„ by God before Moses time to teach that childish age of gods people to absteine from crueltie As in Genes 9.4 Although the time before the comming of Christe bee called of the Apostle Gal. 4. ver 3. a childish age when wee were Children saith he wee were in bondage vnder the rudimentes of the worlde yet when the fulnesse of time was come and Christe reuealed receiued and the Gospell established in calling still that primitiue age a childish age we must take good heede that the Papistes and other Heretikes take not aduantage by these spéeches that say the Church of Christe in the Apostles times was but as weake as a Childe or babie and afterwarde grewe to ripe perfection And albeit I graunt these temporarie degrees were made cheefely in respect of some such persons among them that were but weake and as it were of childish age in the knowledge of Christe and the Christian libertie notwithstanding euen for these weake childrens sake the strongest and all for the time that those decrees were in force were bound to obey them And that priuate person which publikely had broken or controlled these degrees of the Church in these caeremoniall matters which onely for this expediencie were decreed though the matters otherwise in them-selues were such as might lawfully haue beene broken or controlled had greatly offended euen so whatsoeuer these caeremoniall matters that we and our Br. doe nowe striue for are otherwise in their own nature free and indifferent and so might bee receyued or refused or haue otherwise in the vse of them beene abused yet being nowe by the Church of God decreed to be well vsed and that with expresse cautions against all the former abuses of them and that with full freedome of conscience wherein the Christian libertie most consisteth what priuate person soeuer shoulde attempt publikely to breake or controll them shoulde offer manifest iniurie to Gods Church If we be the Church of God as I hope we be that thus haue decreed them They say such caeremoniall Constitutions are but temporall Neyther do we goe about to make them perpetuall And yet heerein wee must note also a difference from those Constitutions that were no longer in force then for a certaine time as the absteining from bloud and strangled and those that may perpetually bee kept if there be perpetuall causes of them And this their selues confesse that they are so long to be retained as the cause continueth sor which they were made And they say true herein But since the cause of the making of our caeremoniall constitutions doth continue howe are they not then to bee still reteined vntill the cause shall cease or that by the same authoritie whereby they were ordeyned they be also aâ—tered or remooued But say they so that if weakenesse cease or be turned to obstinacie they are no longer to be reteyned If the weakenesse say I cease generallie or generally bee turned to obstinacie that were in-deede another matter But if weakenesse cease in some and remayne in other or in some but not generally or in the moste part nor generally be turned to obstinacie but in some then the cause of the Lawe respecting not particulars doth not cease and therefore the caeremoniall constitutions decreed by the lawfull Synode are still as before to be reteined Also for order an comelisse and best aedification the Synode hath to determine what shall be obserued in particular charges as of time place and forme of preaching and praying and administring of the Sacramentes For who shoulde bee able to knowe what order comelinesse and aedification requireth according to Gods worde but they that bee teachers and preachers of the same vnto all others For it is absurde that they should bee taught by such these smaller thinges as ought to learne the trueth of them in all matters Vnderstanding the Synode in his proper sense for the orderlie and lawfull assemblie not of this or that particular Citie Shire or Diocesse but of the whole Prouince Realme or state and withall not preiudicating the supreme autoritie of the Christian Magistrate I grant that the Synode hath to determine for order comelinesse and best aedification what shall bee obserued both in particuler thinges and through out the whole state As not onely of the time place and forme of preaching and praying and administring of the Sacrament but also of Discipline and of Ecclesiasticall Regiment to the ends aforesaid As for the reason héere alleaged For who shoulde be able to know what order comelinesse and aedification requireth according to Gods Worde but they that bee teachers and preachers of the same vnto all others I allowe the same no further than by comparison that they which are the Teachers and Preachers of the same vnto all others haue better cause to knowe in generall what order comelinesse and aedification requireth according to the Worde of God than any other haue But to say simplie as heere our Brethren doe who shoulde be able so much as to knowe it but they that bee Teachers and preachers c. is a greate deale me thinketh vnder their correction too presumptuous a question May not a man bee able by Gods grace to knowe thus much as what order comelinesse and aedification requireth according to Gods Worde except hee bee his selfe a Teacher and Preacher of the same vnto all others Yes verily and to knowe much more euen in the greatest controuersies of Doctrine as God bee praysed there are many godly learned both men and women among vs that are not vnfurnished with such knowlâ—â—ge Yea what were the teachers and Preachers at first them selues Did they take vpon them to teache and preache the same vnto all others before they had the knowledge hereof or did they teache and preach immediatly vpon their getting knowledge or was the knowledge suddenly by inspiration giuen them with their entring into this function as S. Paules wordes to Timothie may be vnderstood Dispise not the gift that is in thee which was giuen thee by prophesy with the laying on of hands of the Eldership 1. Tim. 14. And yet Timothy was able to know these thinges before insomuch that S. Paule sayth to him 2. Tim. 3.15 And that thou haste knowne the holy Scriptures of a childe And some men can excellentlie dâ—clare their knowledge also of
these thinges before The Synode preaching with more eloquence and knoweledge too than many of these our Learned Discourses and yet bee no Preachers of the same vnto all others But what is their reason that they imagine none is able to knowe these thinges but teachers and Preachers of the same vnto all all others For say they it is absurde that they shoulde bee taught by such in these small thinges as ought to learne the trueth of them in all matters To an humble minded man and glad to learne this is no absurditie A godly and learned Preacher may eyther bee as ignoraunt or not so skilfull expert or prouident in some thinges yea nowe and then in some of these small things as some other may be that are no Preachers And if controuersies of them be mooued in the Synode consisting of Pastors it is a signe that all the Preachers haue not such knowledge of them but that they also may be to seeke and learne Yea the smaller things they be the Preachers may perhaps haue lesse imployde themselues in the study or search of of such smal thinges or not remember themselues so well as an other lesse learned which is no preacher may And a lowly spirit will not disdaine to learne great matters of his inferior in learning though he be no Preacher Moses learned of Iethro how to dispose his iudgemeÌ„ts more orderlie both in small matters and in great Neither is there indeede if the Preacher set aside all haughtie conceits of his owne singular doings and deuises any absurditie at all or shame herein but that it may beseeme him wel inough and he were better then he is sometimes to take notice and to bee taught of some godly wise learned and experient men that are no Preachers yea and of some women too now and then not only in some such small things but also in matters of great importance as Iudith taught the Elders and Pastors of Bethulia Although I graunt they againe ought to learn of the Preachers the trueth of Gods word in all matters Neither in these diuers kindes of teaching is any absurditie so long as their manner of teaching is not opposite nor that these laâ— persons be take vpon them as an ordinarie office nor do it of arrogancie and controulment nor do it as publike teachers preachers vnto the publike preachers and teachers of them nor do it to defaceand blemish the estimation or authoritie of their teachers and preachers nor doe it in all things but in these thinges Which heere their selues confesse are but small thinges being done in this order they ought to take no scorne to be reueuerently remembred or to be taught of them were it neuer so true that they which are no teachers and preachers ought to learn the trueth of them that are teachers and preachers in all matters which notwithstanding thus again generallie to auouch is a great ouer ouershot For there are many and those good matters besides religion and Eccl. matters and there is also a truth of them and yet men are not bound to learn the truth of them onely at the mouth of the preacher no nor the preacher is bound to know them or can or if he could ought to teach them And therefore this again is too largely spoken for all matters and seemeth to proceede of too great a reach and too high a liking of them-selues and too much incroching vpon others But what now is their conclusion hereupon This authoritie therefore cannot bee graunted vnto anie ciuill Christian Magistrate that without consent of the Learned Pastors and Elders yea against their consent of whome as in some respect hee is a feeling member hee may lawfully make caeremoniall Constitutions whereby the Church must bee gouerned in meere Ecclesiasticall matters Is there no meane but the drift of this conclusion must needes hee directed against the Ciuill Christian Magistrate howe chaunce our Brethren did not looke a litle neerer among them-selues and then they shoulde haue séene howe they had throughly payde and cleane ouerthrowne their Gouernours that are not teaching Elders whome they make to bee a greate part of the Synode in examining and determining Ecclesiasticall causes and Ecclesiasticall regiment and that the pastors can doe nothing without them But when this question commeth blustring in Who shoulde bee able to knowe what order comelinesse and aedification requireth according to Gods worde but they that bee teachers and Preachers of the same vnto all others Dare these Seniors nowe peepe out their heades and say like Gouernours indéede who shoulde we shoulde You what are you we wit ye well we are the Gouernours of all the Ecclesiasticall Discipline and regimeÌ„t Tush tush are ye teachers preachers of the same vnto al others No indeede that wee be not wee can not preach nor teach but wee can rule the matter with you that be teachers and Preachers No no go seeke your rule and Gouernment in other matters If yee bee no Teachers and preachers ye meddle not heere No wit yee well againe yeâ— are not able and much lesse worthie so much as to know what order comelinesse aedification requireth according to Gods worde and so least of all to examine decide and determine the same What ought not you though yee bee Seniors and gouernours to learne of vâ— that are your teachers and preachers wee tell you plainly and roundly at a worde It is absurde that they that are teachers and preachers shoulde be taught by such in these small thinges and it were much more absurde in greater thinges as ought to heare and learne the trueth of them in all matters Loe Howe these bigge and loftie wordes haue vtterlie blanked and giuen checke mate to these our gouerning Elders that we not teachers and preachers But whust wee pray you no more of this for we meant not this against our gouerning Elders though they be neither Preachers nor teachers but wee direct it altogether against the Ciuill Christian Magistrate Yea forsooth my learned Brethren macte virtuâ—e now ye shewe your selues indeede Yerke at the ciuill Christian Magistrate and euer so far as ye may do it with safetie spare not but still come in with one byous â—ling or another at the prince For this is plauâ—â—ble to the people as thogh ye were no accepters of persons in daring to speake almost any thing against the ciuill Christian Magistrate And doth your teaching and preaching tend to this that for feare the ciuill Christian Magistrate shoulde teach you though hee preach not to you another lesson you woulde haue it thoughâ— absurde that they shoulde teach you that shoulde be taught by you as heere you say in all matters yea that they are not able to know what order comelinesse and ediffcation requireth according to Gods worde except they them-selues were teachers and preachers I looked all this while when yet now at the length our Br. would begin to enter in
that the Apostles desired not such thinges of the kinges of the earth they consider not that then it was another time and that all things are to be done in their times For what Emperour did then beleeue in Christ that might serue him in making lawes for pietie against impietie where as yet that propheticall saying was fulfilled why did the Gentiles frette and the people imagine vaine thinges the kinges of the eartâ— stoode vppe and the Princes came together against the Lorde and against his Christ. But as yet that was not done â—hich in the same Psalme is sayde a little after and now yee kiâ—ges vnderstande bee yee wise that iudge the earth serue the Lorde with feare and reioyce vnto him with trembling Howe then doe kinges serue the Lorde with feare but in forbidding with a religious seueritie and in punishing those thinges that are doone contrarie to the commaundementes of the Lorde For hee serueth otherwise for that he is a man and otherwise for that hee is a king For that he is a man he serueth in liuing faythfully But for that he is also a king he serueth in enacting with a conuenient vigor lawes that commaunde iust thinges and forbid the contrarie Euen as Ezechias serued in destroying the groaues and temples of the Idolles and those high places that were builded contrarie to the commaundements of God Euen as Iosias serued he also dooing the same things Euen as the king of the Niniuits serued in compelling the whole Citie to pacifie God Euen as Darius serued in giuing it vnto Daniel into his power to breake the Idoll and in casting his enemies to the Lyons Euen as Nabuchodonozer serued of whom wee haue alreadi spoken in forbidding by a terrible lawe all that were placed in his kingdome from blaspheming God In this therfore kings do serue the Lord so farre forth as they be kinges when they do those things to serue him that none but kinges can doe Sith kinges therefore did not as yet serue the L. in the Apostles times but as yet did imagine vaine thinges against God and against his Christ that all the foretellings of the Prophets should be fulfilled impieties could not then indeede be forbidden by lawes but rather be exercised For so was the order of the times rowled about that both the Iewes killed the preachers of Christe thinking they did a dutie to God as Christ foretold and the Gentiles fretted against Christ and the Martyrs patience ouercame them all But when thaâ— began to bee fulfilled which was written and all the kinges of the earth shall worship him and all Nations shall serue him what man that is sober in his wit can say to kinges Haue not you care in your kingdome of whom the Church of your Lord is holden or is oppugned It perteineth not in your kingdome vnto you who will bee eyther religious or sacrilegious vnto whom it cannot be sayde it pertayneth not vnto you in your kingdome who will be shamefast who will be vnshamefast For when free choyse is giuen of God vnto a man why shoulde adulteries bee punished by lawes and sacrileges be suffered Is it a lighter matter for the soule not to keepe her fayth to God than for a woman not to keepe her faith to her husbande Thus doth Augustine proue that this authoritie of the Christian Magistrates and Monarkes in making constitutions lawes for Eccl. matters as wel as for temporall though it were not accomplished in the Apostles time yet it was prefigured prophecied and promised that it should be afterward fulfilled and in conuenient time it was performed Therefore it remayneth that it be shewed by them that defend that this absolute authoritie is in the ciuill Magistrate by what spirite or reuelation or scripture if there be any that we knowe not for wee would be glad to learne how this authoritie was translated from the Church in which it was once lawfully vested vnto the ciuill Christian Magistrate I knowe none of vs that defendeth that an absolute authoritie is in the ciuill Magistrate And therefore it remayneth not in vs to shewe any thing for that which we defende not If wee defende it let them name the man and shewe the place and let the partie defende himselfe as he can And I would learne of them also by what spirite or reuelation or scripture if there be any that wee knowe not they can so vntruelie burden their so gratious Soueraigne to take vpon her an absolute authoritie Or to sclaunder vs their Brethren that we defend that this absolute authoritie is in the ciuill Magistrate They say they would be glad to learne how this authoritie was translated from the Church in which it was lawfully vested vnto the ciuill Christian Magistrate And can they proue then that the Church was euer lawfully vested with this absolute authoritie For my part I am of contrarie opinion nor euer yet learned for all the Papists harpe much vpon some what the like string that the Churche of God euer had or tooke vpon her any absolute authoritie in any Eccl. matters whatsoeuer and much lesse do I learne that it was translated from the Church vnto the ciuill Christian Magistrates Howbeit I trust they will giue vs leaue to learne thus much as euen Beza himselfe out of the worde of God shall teach vs to be a lawefull authoritie and a needefull of the ciuill Christian Magistrate ioyned with the Synode in these matters Beza in the 5. Chapter of his christian confession in the 15. article afore cited for the Princes calling the generall councels or synodes for making the Presidents or Gouernors of the same first he alleâ—geth some obiections to the contrarie that the Princes gouernment is different from the Ministers of the word And that it is for many causes a most perilous thing to throwe the councels vnder the authoritie of Princes For that thereby the ambition of them that would gratifie Princes is so kindled and on the contrarie the simplicitie of many terrified with the vnwonted presence of the Princes not to speak of that which would God were not true that there haue alwayes bene but fewe Princes that haue bin indued with so much both learning and godlinesse as is necessarily required for the moderating of such actions or that thinke they ought seriously to consider of these matters When as rather by a certaine calamitie of the world as it were fatall they vse to be intentiue either to euery bodie or to hearken rather to the euill than to the good Notwithstanding all these obiections to the contrarie Beza sayth but it seemeth not verie difficult to aunswere these arguments First I iudge that heede must be taken that wee so discerne not the Princes of this worlde from the ministers of the worde that wee shoulde also separate them as though they were prophane Which was the first stâ—ppe whereby the
partie on whom the hands are laide to be made or consecrate the Pastor or els of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is to confirme or strengthen is there any vnaptnesse why this worde may not bee as well and much better vnderstoode for confirming or ordeyning an Elder in his consecrating by laying the hand vpon him which was the action of the Minister onely than by holding vp the hand to his electing which was the action of the people in such places where they were in so great numbers assembled that their Suffrages could not so well be discerned by the confused noyse of their voyces as by the holding vp of their handes for a token of their liking of the partie But in euery Church where Paule and Barnabas went and ordeyned Elders there were not such great numbers of the faithfull people that they should need so to signifie their election by holding vp their handes as Beza thinketh Neither sufficeth it as we haue seene also that Caluin maketh Paule and Barnabas the chiefe moderators least any tumult should arise among the people I like better of that he sayd before vpon this 23. verse therefore Christ did not only send his Apostles to preach the Gospell but he commaunded also that there should be Pastors appoynted that the preaching of the Gospell might be perpetuall in daylie vse Paule and Barnabas doe marke that this order was set downe by Christ whē as they assigned Pastors to euery Church The assignement therefore of the Pastors was the praerogatiue that Paule and Barnabas here chalenged to themselues I graunt they did it not by any imposing Elders vpon them against the peoples liking and good willes but that the good people gaue their good assent vnto those whom Paule and Barnabas assigned to bée their Pastors And this Caluin himselfe here confesseth that Paule and Barnabas are said to choose the Elders Which if it be truely sayde then the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is spoken onely of Paule and Barnabas and not of the people And so Caluin confutes himselfe in gathering thereon a free election of the people For although we may graunt that Paule and Barnabas did not alone so choose and ordeyne them by their priuate office but that it was the consent of thē all yet was not only the moderating but the choosing the assigning and the imposition of handes which was the action of the ordeining was the prerogatiue that Paule and Barnabas here did chalenge and had euen by Caluins owne confession The other example 1. Tim 4. ver 14. Now Timothie also receiued his charge since our Brethren applye it to the example of Pastors I like it very well and this withall is to be remembred For when we alleadge Timothie as an example of Bishops whom they also doe call Pastors they repell this example saying he was an Euangelist therefore no Pastor and now their selues alleadge him as an example for the choosing of Pastors And this I like also that they say of Timothie receiuing his charge although it were through prophecie yet was it done by the imposition of handes of the Eldership 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Which wordes doe well expound the other worde being of the like matter and action that y◠other were for ordeyning of Elders And was this a lifting vp of handes too or any election by voyces of the people No. But here was such an imposing of the Pastor on the people as had the imposition of hands Yea but say they of the Eldership Not of say I but with the Eldership And this I graunt but doth this debarre Paule that he only might not haue chosen assigned and appoynted him if any other Elders did in the action of ordayning lay their hands also on him with the Apostle Albeit euen by Caluins owne interpretation we haue seene how in this place the name of Presbiterie or Eldership maye be aswell vnderstood for the office of the priesthood or Eldership as for the persons of the Priests or Elders By which exposition of Caluine it is apparant that he might also well be sayde to haue in his ordeyning the imposition of hands with the Eldership although onely S. Paule alone when he ordeined him had laide his handes vpon him But howsoeuer it was done there in Ephesus where there were moe Elders before Timothie was ordeyned by S. Paule to be the chiefe Elder and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Beza calleth him the Prouost or first stander or B. of that Citie and prouince Yet in all the places where Paule Barnabas traueled Act. 14. there is no likelihood that they ordeyned there first other Elders to be their Gouernors that were not Pastors then ioyned those Elders with thē in the Elections of the Elders that were Pastors put as Caluine expressy saith Luke speaketh there of Pastors onely But put the election of Pastors to the peoples elections and not to the Elections in the name of the people to the gouerning Elders and then our brethren straightway crie out this were to breede confusion yea horrible confusion whereof God is not the authour pag. 83.84 These Examples therfore serue not their turne but the oftener they turne them vp to vs they returne vppon themselues with more and more manifest prooues against them Therefore as it hath bin euidently declared before the assemblie of Elders consisting of graue wise and godly men ought to enquire when the Pastors place is voide where they may finde a man meete to supplie his roome and therein to desire ayde of the Synode The man by such godlye aduise so chosen ought to be presented to the congregation of them to be allowed and receaued if no man can shew any reasonable cause to the contrary This is the right Election and ordeyning of Pastors grounded vppon the word of God and practised by the Primitiue Church two hundred yeeres after Christ vntill the mystery of iniquity grewe to worke more openly to the setting vp of the tyrannicall kingdome of Antichrist That the assemblie of Elders should consist of graue wise and godlie men they haue in deede declared before But what are these graue wise and godly men of whom the assembly of Elders should consist Are they Teachers and Preachers or are they not If not then haue they no authoritie to determine any thing in the Synode For as they haue also declared before pag. 117. who should be able to knowe what order comelinesse and aedificatiō requireth according to Gods word but they that be teachers and preachers of the same vnto all others Which rule if it be true in one place is true in all places and so in the particular assemblies of Elders Whereby it followeth that except the assemblies be of so vnwise men that they be not able to knowe what order comelinesse and aedification requireth they must bee teachers and preachers and of consequent Pastors as
wheron to be maintained or else the Bishop that ordeyned him to be bouÌ„d to finde him If this be not executed that is another matter and may be remedied the Eccle. state both for the substance of the bishops and of the ministers dignities and offices standing as it doth And if anye bishop were complained upon and conuicted I thinke he might by order of lawe be compelled to finde his Ministers or be punished for making of them But what is this to our brethrens assertion that a man caÌ„not be counted a minister where he hath no charge and if not so much as counted then not be For if he be a minister then he ought to be counted a minister Our Bretheren sayde before it was an absurditie to ordeyne Pastors and let them prowle where they can for their Benefices But is that such an absurditie as is this Yea this is not onely most absurde and includeth all the former inconueniences but it is cleane contrarie to all their owne positions hereon For if the office of his Ministerie haue his esse as before they called it that is the essence or beeing thereof onely in that place or congregation where the Minister hath a charge then not onely as I sayd before being out of his charge or congregation he is out of his Ministerie and so a lay man and if he preach his preaching is no preaching if he minister the Sacraments they are no Sacraments neither the Lords Supper nor yet Baptisme nor so to bee counted by their owne rules any more than if a woman did minister them For if those actions of his be to be otherwise accounted â—hen is it by reason that he himselfe is to be otherwise accounted that did them And if he be to be accounted otherwise then it is in respect be is a Minister And if in that respect then he is to be couÌ„ted a Minister though out of his charge and how true is then this our brethrens paradore that he is not to be couted a Minister where he hath no charge Al these absurdities and dangerous inconueniences with their traynes and sequelles doe so followe hereupon that many may call into question both their receiuing of the Lords Supper and their childrens and their own baptisme too and so stagger whether they may make full reckoning that they be Christians yea or no sauing in the profession of their faith And yet they may begin to doubt in that also since that S. Paule vseth this gradation Rom. 10. verse 14. But how shall they call on him on whom they haue not beleeued How shall theâ—â—eleeue in him of whom they haue not heard and how shall they heare without a Preacher and how shall they preach except they be sent And how is the Preacher sent if he goe out of his charge And so vpon calling this in doubt nay that is more vpon flatly denying both his sending and the very beeing of his Ministerie how doe we not vndoe agayne all the former parts of this gradation and all because he that preached as for example I imagine it were at Paules Crosse preached where he had no charge If these things be no absurdities nor inconueniences with our Brethren though they and I agree not herein yet how doe they agree to their owne selues When a Synode is called be it either vniuersall nationall prouinciall or particular of any Shire as they woulde haue it there to ordeyne Ministers vnto the particular congregations or to decide a controuersie in doctrine or to determine of discipline or to decree ceremonies for order comelinesse as they would haue these things to bee decided and concluded in Synodes and Synodes at least prouinciall Synodes to bee called often who are they that should bee called thether Are they not the Pastors Teachers and Preachers as pag. 117. they sayd before Who shall be able to know what order comelinesse and aedification requireth according to Gods word but they that be teachers and preachers of the same vnto all others But now when all these Pastors Ministers Teachers and Preachers go to this Synod and are there assembled they are out of their particular congregation which they say is their charge and what followeth but they must forthwith bee counted no Ministers And being no Ministers they can neither preach nor teach they can determine none of these controuersies no they are not able to knowe what perteyneth to order and comelinesse so that for that while they haue lost both their habilitie and their knowledge But no maruell of that when they haue lost their beeing Ministers and so lost themselues and all so long as they bee out of their charges And now where they come to make Ministers being no Ministers their selues how can they make others and in what a pickle be we now But they say and we must beleeue them that they must haue Synods for the doing of all these things but the Synode is not the flocke the Benefice or particular congregation of them and so not their charge and what theÌ„ followeth hereupon but that a man may bee counted a Minister where he hath no charge which is here the cleane contrarie to our Bretherens paradoxe that a man must not bee counted a Minister where hee hath no charge Now consider since they haue auowed both these sayings and both these being cleane contrary cannot both stande true one of them must yeeld and be packing for a manifest falshoode which were best to let goe I thinke our Bretheren when they haue weighed well the peyse of both will rather let go this thâ—n the other and neuer bee ashamed for all the learning of their discourse to say this was but a course ouerslip and that a minister is and must still be counted a Minister where he hath no charge nor flocke But if now to saue all vpright in both they will say he is not out of his charge in the Synod though it bee not his flocke shall they flocke vs so Doe they not by his charge vnderstand his flocke when they say of the Bishops that they giue an office without a charge and what is that For footh to make a Pastor and send him to seeke a flock where he can finde it And did they not expounde this flocke also to be his Benefice in saying to ordeyne Pastors and let them prowle wherâ— they can for their Benefices Doe they not here plainly meane by the charge the flocke and by the flocke the Benefice of the Pastor And will they also make him Pastor there where he hath no flocke And do they not make a disâ—inction also pag. 111. of his double estate saying we haue declared before that there is a double authoritie of the Pastor the one ioyned with the Elders of the Church whereof he is Pastor the other with the Synod or holy assemblie whereof he is a member So that in the Synodes he is not present as a pastor
pleaseth vs also to afforde them so much credite as it pleaseth them to pawne so free a promise but for anye reason to mooue vs héere is none but that they giue as héere three promises togeather that abuses shall not so soone nor so easilye nor so many creepe in as nowe they thrung in at wyde windowes and port gates Indéede considering well of all that pro con hath passed betweene vs in the examining but of this their learned discourse we neede not doubt that abuses would thrung in at wyde windowes and port gates as they say now they doe for when all the walles are beaten downe what infinite abuses and worse than abuses may not most soone come in not only creeping but come tumbling in fayâ—e and easilie if not rather foule and most conâ—usedly howbeit we feare not beating downe the walles or one port gate or but portall or but windowe opened or any hole made by all the batterie of these our learned Bretheren except wee will let them as we doe too much discourse and take their pleasure indeede to dispose and transpose to pull downâ— â—nd set vy all things as they please to frame them Now whether they feare this obiection to be too true or in securitie they will graunt it vs for their further pleasure But if say they as many or moe abuses if moe could be were crept in yet were it better than it is now for we should be sure that God approueth our order though he condemne the abuses because it is grouÌ„ded vpon Gods word whereas now he abhorreth both And can our brethren at length confesse this difference betwixt the order grounded vpon Gods word and the abuses rising vpon mans corruption how chaunce then they haue grounded all their former so bitter inuectiues agaynst the orders of our Ministerie vpon the abuses of the Ministers and all to bleare the peoples eyes to make the orders odious because of the offensiue abuses that they pretend agaynst the persons But it is well that yet they here confesse that their owne orders which they would haue are not free from abuses yea froÌ„ as many or more abuses than are the orders that we haue They doe well to graunt this before hand for if their orders were admitted we should finde it too true afterward that there would be as many or more abuses Neuerthelesse they set a good face thereon that for all there were more abuses Tush what of all that yet should our case be better when it should bee worser than it is now Yea how can that be For we should be sure that God approueth our order And how should we be sure of this Because it is grounded vpon Gods word But can they tell vs in what part of Gods word this ground lyeth they haue oftentimes told vs it is grounded on Gods word but when we come to seeke for the words wée can neuer find theÌ„ nor any necessary consequence that they haue led vs vnto in all the word of God either for any example or commaundement that wee are charged or bounde to followe and therfore this is but their owne confident presupposall When they can proue such a ground in Gods word for them then we will yea wee must yeeld will wée â—ill wée to Gods orders But till then wée craue leisure that remouing the abuses as well as God will giue vs grace we may keepe our orders still in Gods name except wee might bee better assured of better orders and lesse subiect to abuses than these be But of the authoritie that Pastors haue as members of the Synode wee haue spoken hetherto sufficiently By which it is euident how all things haue bene corrupted in Poperie which had at the first any good institution which corruptions we also retayne at this day without desiring of any reformation To that they say they haue spoken hetherto sufficiently of the authoritie that Pastors haue as members of the Synode whether it be also aunswered sufficiently to that they haue spoken therevpon I yeeld it to the indifferencie of the Reader But what is this they say here that Pastors haue as members of the Synode Indeede they vsed that terme before pag. 111. of the Pastors double authoritie the one ioyned with the Elders of the Church whereof he is Pastor the other with the Synode or holy assemblie whereof he is a member But after that they sayde pag. 117. who should bee able to knowe what order comelinesse and edification requireth according to Gods word but they that bee teachers and preachers of the same vnto all others What then meane they by these termes that they haue authoritie as members of the Synode If they meane as all the members and so as the whole that none be members or parts of the Synod but only they then holde they tacke indeede to that their former clayme who should bee able to knowe those things but they But in so doing they not onely quite exclude the Prince but their gouerning Elders also and their Deacons whom if they will not exclude from some authoritie as members also of the Synod then was that not sufficiently spoken or rather they gaue their Pastors more than sufficient authoritie in the Synode The corruptions in Poperie our Bishoppes and such as acknowledged their Episcopall authoritie founde out God bee praysed for it before our Bretheren came and reformed the same and they now vnthankfully reward the reformers of those corruptions to affoord them this good word for their labour that we reteyne those corruptions at this day and that without desiring of any reformation If in saying we they speake of themselues they are their owne Iudges if of the Queenes most excellent Maiestie and of all the Prelates and Pastors and whole state of the Church and Realme of England it is too euident and too foule a sclaunder that wee reteyne at this day all things that haue bene corrupted in Poperie and that without desiring any reformation Neither helpeth it that they say all thinges which at the first had any good institution they haue not yet bene able to proue that by authoritie of any lawe established wee reteyne so much as any one such corrupted thing but either haue reiected it if it could not bâ—â— scoured from the rust and ranker of that corruption or if it could wée haue so clensed and refourmed the same to his good institution that wee may well and safely reteyne it without desiring innouation If any persons reteyne the corruptions still that is contrarie to the reformation of the lawe and punishable vpon the lawfull proofe in the reteyner And sith they doe here confesse that the institutions were good of those things whereof they say wee reteyne the corruptions howsoeuer we reteyne them the institution of them was not nought if good but lawdable And therefore they are not vtterly to be condemned but contrarywise may be well reteyned being reduced to their first
is decreed amongst themselues that must be called the determination of the whole Synode I meruell that our Bretheren shamed nor feared not to stuffe their learned discourse with so many manifest vntrueths It is most euident that nothing is or can bee decreed in the name of the whole Synodes determination without the whole Synode comprehending at least the greatest number for the whole haue decreed and determined the same So that say they no man must bee suffered to speake any thing agaynst it bee it neuer so reasonable or agreable to the worde of God This is another most great and manifest vntrueth sclaunderous to the Bishoppes and reproachfull to the whole Conuocation There is none of the house but that may in any matter that is propounded to bee debated vppon yea any other though not of the house being knowne to be a reuerent godly wise and learned person either of the Ministerie yea in some cases though he were not any Ecclesiasticall person yet might he also bee freely admitted according to the auncient Canons to speake before the house in such sorte and manner as the order of the house requireth for those that bee or should bee learned men to speake their minde in the Latine tongue for feare some young Sir Iohn lacke latine would bee ouer busie and so to reason freely pro contra obseruing alwaies that modestie and reuerence which beseemeth the assemblie of graue and learned men And in this maner many haue propounded and reasoned vpon diuers matters as those that are auncients in the Conuocations heretofore can witnesse Yea saye they whosoeuer will not subscribe to all such thinges as they decree must bee excluded out of the Conuocation as was practised and threatned in the Conuocation at the foresayde Parliament vnto diuers godly and learned Preachers that offered to speake agaynst diuers grosse and palpable errors that had escaped the Bishops Our Bretheren hauing so often broken the squire of trueth in these matters doe here waxe bold to rappe out vntrueths now by huddles What one Preacher hath bene excluded out of the Conuocation for this that he would not subscribe to all such thinges as the Bishoppes among themselues haue decreed Or can they bring any instance but of such one threat made vnto them And albeit a threat differeth from the putting it in practise yet this also is a notorious sclaunder There was no such thing either practised or threatned at any tyme in our Conuocations namely at that tyme they mention which I remember well and so doe many others when some speaking in English began to bee ouer busie and to vse disordered behauiour with vnreuerent termes they were by the Prolocutor as moderator commaunded to silence or els to departe and not to disturbe the house nor alter the lawdable orders thereof except they would and that in seemely modestie speake in Latine which these godly and learned Preachers that our Bretheren commende liked not to doe Neuerthelesse other being indeede godly and learned Preachers did very reuerently and with great learning discusse those matters And so with generall consent either of all or which sufficed of the most and best parte those Articles were condescended vpon and approoued for good and sound doctrine And so I hope will stand for any thing that our Bretheren or any other shall euer bee able to say agaynst them As for any and much lesse diuers grosse and palpable errours that escaped the Bishops I remember none nor can learne of any The Decrees conteyned in the articles aforesayd are published to the open viewe of of euery man if our Bretheren as yet can burthen them with any grosse or palpable errour or with any errour at all though not grosse nor palpable or but with apparance or suspition of errour it were worth the hearing But if there bee no such errour in them who are then worthie the punishing or at least worthie to acknowledge with repentaunce and reuoking this so great a sclaunder For it toucheth not our Bishoppes and the Conuocation onely but béeing established also as is aforesayde by act of Parliament and so the professed doctrine of all the Realme and Church of England how are wee not all hereby defaced to maynteyne grosse and palpable errours and that in no small poynts of doctrine If Papistes had sayd this it had bene lesse meruell which hate our doctrine and count it stuffe full of errours and heresies too But they neuer were nor are nor euer shall bée God willing able to prooue that we mainteyne any one errour in any one article of doctrine but agree in all the substance of Religion with the true and syncere worde of God Yea our Bretheren their selues bearing vs witnesse who in the Preface of this learned discourse confesse that for the substance of Religion it is resolued and now publikly maynteyned for our true and holy faith How could this bee true if those articles namely these which here they note being matter of faith and publikely maynteyned and resolued by all the Church of England to bee true and holie were grosse and palpable errours But to shewe both vnto them and to all the worlde least the Papistes should take holde hereon when they heare of this our owne Bretherens accusation which will bee euen meate and drinke to them béeing glad to feede vppon such sclaunders that as wee are sounde GOD bée blessed for it in all other articles of doctrine so in these wee maynteyne no errour at all but a most sure and syncere trueth let vs come to the viewe of these two Articles that here they mention for example As for the distinction saye they of Canonicall and Apocryphall bookes Although this bee a matter wherein good and godly Fathers haue had some difference yet for our Bishoppes and Conuocations decree thereon I see not how our Bretheren shall bee able to finde that wee holde any error in that matter It is the sixth Article the wordes whereof are these Holy Scripture conteyneth all things necessarie to saluation so that whatsoeuer is not read therein nor may bee proued thereby is not to be required of any man that it should bee beleeued as an article of the faith or bee thought requisite or necessarie to saluation In the name of the holy Scripture wee doe vnderstand those canonicall bookes of the old and newe Testament of whose authoritie was neuer any doubt in the Church Of the names and number of the Canonicall bookes Genesis Exodus Leuiticus Numeri Deuteronomie Iosue Iudges Ruth The first booke of Samuell The 2. booke of Samuell The first booke of Kings The 2. book of Kings The 1. booke of Chroni The 2. booke of Chroni The 1. booke of Esdras The 2. booke of Esdras The booke of Hester The booke of Iob. The Psalmes The Prouerbes Ecclesiast or preacher Cantica or songs of Sal. 4. Prophets the greater 12. Prophets the lesse And the other bookes as Ierome
they renounce they vaunt of long studie in which they could not for shame make any comparison therfore they flie to the example of yong Elihu to the reuelatiō of gods spirite as though their learning and these platformes came by reuelation to thē on a sudden and doe they now vpon the smattering of a little learning or for the small time beit of their earnest studie come in as it were vying withall the B. making exception of none but obiect to them all that they are not all of the best learned nor all of longest studie But what néede long study for greate or best learning among them when their gouerning Elders in euery congregatiō shal go for men learned in diuinity that haue little leasure to studie long or perhaps at all and euery Pastor holden for a learned diuine andfor a learned Preacher although he were but new made a Pastor And as for sound iudgement they measure that after their own iudgement and conceite esteéeming euery mans iudgement albeit he be of neuer so long studie or greate learning to bee no sounde iudgement if it sounde not soundlie in their forestalled Iudgement As also their ouer great preposterous zeale condemneth all the Bishops and all vs their bretheren in the Gospell of Christ to be but Popish and without all zeale if wée yeilde not straight way to them in all the deuises of these newe platformes And no maruell then if the shoue in this among the residue that the Bishops be not all of the best example Would God both they and wee and all our bretheren were if not of best yet of better example than wee be For to say the truth the better of both yea the best of vs all therein may be amended Neuerthelesse though it be an offence vnto the weake and a steyne vnto the authoritie yet not so but that the authoritie it selfe is good and maye stand euen in those persons that are not all of best example no nor all of the greatest zeale nor all of soundest iudgement nor all of longest studie nor all of the best learned neither but if the Bishops were in these thinges inferiour to some other or to them or any of them haue any defecte therein yet ought not out bretheren thus to insult vpon them being their fathers that made them Ministers of the Gospell and hauing authority ouer them in the Church were it but for the reuerence and dignitie of their authoritie except indeede they were open enemies to the Faith or manifest wicked in the example of their conuersation It should better me thinkes beseemeour brethren to followe the shame fastnesse of Sem and Iapheth than the shamelessenesse of Cham in deriding and reuealing his fathers shame But what do I speaking this of those Children that are growne into such disdaine that they will not acknowledge them to be their Fathers If they saye that in these words they do not thus accuse them all in saying they are not all of the best learned nor all of the longest studie nor all of soundest iudgement nor all of greatest zeale nor all of best example What then do they meane by these so intricate speeches bicause they still place this word all so cunningly in the middle that as it may be called in question whether they referred it to these matters as when we saie a thing is not all of the best that is to say it is but meane or base not all of the soundest that is to saye rotten or corrupted not all of the longest that is but short not al of the greatest that is but little or els that they referre the worde all not to the matter but to the persons as they are not all of the best that is to saye some of them are not of the best and so for the residue of these qualities In which later sence if they shall meane it that though they bee not all of thē of the best learned yet some of thē are of the best learned of the lōgest studie of the soundest iudgement of the greatest zeale and of the best example as it is apparant they cannot for very shame denye these things or the most of them in some of our Bishoppes why then doe they not follow those fewer some than thus for some not so good in these things to shake off all And yet it is well knowne also that there are many other God be praysed besides the Bishops that may compare with any of these our Bretheren the learned discoursers in any yea in all these things But their quarrell is here pretended onely or chiefly at the Bishoppes concluding agaynst them vpon these premisses And therefore not meete to be the onely determiners in Ecclesiasticall matters to the preiudice of the whole Synode This conclusion wee may safely admit were the Bishops neuer so excellent It is not meete neither doe they nor can they take this vpon them which were indeede to the preiudice of the whole Synode Nor the Synod receiueth this preiudice by them nor giueth such authoritie to them to be the onely determiners in Ecclesiasticall matters For euery one that is any particular member of the whole Synode hath both his deliberatiue and determinatiue voyce except wee shall speake of such determination as recollecting all their seuerall determinations pronounceth publikely the sententiall and finall determination of the matters in the name and authoritie of them all as Iames did being Bishop of Ierusalem And yet neither so all the Bishops doe it but one and the chiefest among them as the full resolution of the whole Synode But how will our Bretheren cléere themselues of this whereof they accuse our Bishoppes for they pretending to be Pastors and that Pastors and Bishops be but al one they will then be Bishops euery one that pretendeth to be a Pastor Now though these Bishops admit their gouerning Elders to come to the Synode and to be parts also of the Synode with the Pastors saying that the Synode consisteth principally of Pastors Elders Teachers and men of wisedome iudgement and grauitie as it were of necessarie regents pag. 113. And hereto they vrge the assemblie Act. 15. the Apostles and Elders came together to consider vpon this matter c yet when they come to the determination euen where they say pag. 117. the Synode hath to determine what shal be obserued in particular charges as of the tyme place and forme of preaching and praying and administring of the Sacraments they so make themselues to bee the onely determiners in all Ecclesiasticall matters that disoayning any other should so much as knowe them they say For who should bee able to knowe what order comelinesse and edification requireth according to Gods word but they that be teachers and preachers of the same vnto all others for it is absurde that they should bee taught by such in these small things as ought to learne the trueth of them in all matters Doe
they not here make their Ecclesiasticall Gouernours and Elders to be no teachers and yet principall parts whereof the Synod consisteth and necessary regents yet when it commeth to the regencie indeede to be cleane excluded from all regencie and determining of these matters except they should determine that they knowe not What shall we say then whatsoeuer is decreed amongst them that is to say among these Bishops that must be called the determination of the whole Synode So that no man must be suffred to speake any thing agaynst it be it neuer so reasonable or agreeable to the word of God pag. 135. Tush what reason you any longer of reason or of agreeablenesse to the word of God Haue ye not your aunswere alreadie Who should bee able to knowe what order comelinesse and edification requireth according to Gods worde but they that be teachers and preachers of the same vnto all others What and will you take vpon you to bee teachers and preachers because ye are Ecclesiasticall gouernours and because ye are parts whereof the Synode consisteth or are ye so cranke that ye be necessarie regents What of all this we tell you agayne that since ye bee not teachers and preachers and so no Pastors nor Bishoppes It is absurd that they should bee taught by you which ought to learne the trueth of vs the Pastorall Bishops in all matters And therefore whosoeuer of you all will not subscribe to all such things as we the Bishops decree must bee excluded out of the Conuocation If this bee not to practise Lordship though not ouer the faith yet ouer al the Synode and ouer all the Churches in these matters no man being permitted to shewe any reason or scripture that inforceth his conscience to the contrary no not their Gouernors themselues to quitch for feare they should heere be snatched vp for halting but onely to hang vpon the authoritie of these newe vpstart Pastorall Bishops let some other declare what this meaneth and how farre this differeth from tyrannicall dominion from ordering all things at their pleasures as though the Gospell sprang from them or had come to them onely It sauoureth of nothing so much as of Popish tyrannie except of somewhat worse whereas otherwise it is well knowne that they are not all of the best learned but many of them very simple schollers nor all of longest studie but méere children or no students in Diuinity euen the other â—ay nor all of soundest iudgement nor able to iudge of many controuersies nor to iudge of or sound to the depth of these nor al of them sound nor soundly agreeing together in iudgement of them Nor all of the greatest zeale though it bee the greatest thing in them but according to knowledge not so great as testie Nor all of the best example but some good some bad and one with another as all other men and what followeth And therfore not meete how fayne soeuer they would and take it heâ—evpon them to bee the onely determiners in Eccl. matters to the preiudice of the whole Synod and of all the gouerning Elders that are parts of the whole Synode with them So playnly in all these thinges doe our Brethren euen in their owne words with a very little windlasse turning theÌ„ home agayne while they would powre out all these reproches on our Bishops reaching short of them spill them by the way and all to defile and beray them selues therewith As for our bishops as they neither take any such authoritie in the Synod vpon them ouer the Pastors as these Episcopall Pastors take vpon them ouer their gouerning Elders and so our Bishops preiudice not the whole Synod nor any part thereof as they do theirs nor our Synodes finde themselues preiudiced or agreeued with the authoritie of our Bishops but both our Bishops and our whole Synodes finde themselues sclaundered iniured defaced and so much preiudiced by these speeches and deuises of our Bretheren As among other this conclusion following is a great sclaunder of them Wherefore it is greatly say they to be desired that our Synodes also which are so farre out of order may bee reformed according to the Scripture and the example of the Primitiue Church That our Synodes are so farre out of order as our Bretheren pretend except they haue some fresh proues to come they haue not yet proued it This is but an apparant vntrueth and infamie of them The refourming of Synodes according to the Scripture and the example of the Primitiue Church so farre as the Scripture giueth either rule or example of them is alreadie in practise if our Bretheren would bee thankfull to God for it As for the particuler abuses they may much more easily be refourmed than by such Synodes and Councels as are heere deuised That all things say they may bee done with such modestie grauitie and iudgement as they were by the Apostles and Elders Act. 15. Yea forsooth this at length is a good finall conclusion and determination of this matter I am glad our Bretheren yet after all these ruffling stormes end thus caulmelie with this wholesome aduice of modestie grauitie and iudgement Which three poynts if they had all this while set before them at least wise if they had followed them they would neuer thus lauishly haue defaced all our Synodes and Conuocations with all the Bishops the Pastors and other officers in them albeit there had bene some defects or abuses of them which might with modestie grauitie and iudgement bée well reformed the lawes and orders of them already established with the Bishops Pastors and officers authorities reserued remayning intier and still continuing The argument of the 16. Booke IN this last Booke after their profession that they haue now set forth the whole Ecclesiasticall Ministerie with all the dueties and authorities perteyning to these fower tetrarches they here graunt that the place requireth to treate of the Ciuill Magistrates authoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters First of the right vnderstanding the title of the Princes supremacie and how farre forth they will moue no controuersies thereof Of their graunt to the Princes supremacie ouer the Ecclesiasticall persons with their cautions of the Popes supremacie and of Princes casting off the Popes yoke Of the Princes supremacie also in the matters Ecclesiasticall and of the Pastors supremacie therein aboue the Prince and of the Popes presumption in these matters Of the Princes authoritie in making lawes of Ecclesiasticall matters and of their exception for not confounding the Princes and the Pastors offices and of the Pastors consent VVhether the Princes authoritie reach no further than to make ciuill lawes for Ecclesiasticall matters And how farre the Pope also allowed Princes to make such lawes VVhether the Princes authoritie stretch not to their dealing in the making of Ecclesiasticall lawes but onely for the charge to obserue them that by the Clergie are alreadie made and for the bodily punishment of those that violate them whether this bee
ministerie of the preaching of the same shall vnderstand to be prositable for aedifying of the Church of Christe and the aduauncement of the glory of God If any shall offend against the Lawes whether he be a Preacher or hearer besides the Ecclesiasticall censure which hee shoulde not escape he is also to be punished in body by the ciuill Magistrate They haue not yet eyther by these or by ought else before spoken made it appeare howe farre it is lawfull for Princes to intermedle with causes ecclesiasticall And howe their supreme authoritie therein which is farre higher then onely intermedling stretcheth As for the things which heere as a recapitulation they set downe are nothing so much as they graunted before For although they say that it is the cheefest point of their duetie to haue especiall regard that God may bee glorified in their Dominion yet that doth not shewe what especiall authoritie they haue therein and how farre foorth they haue it If they say that they do this in the conclusion following these wordes And therefore they ought to make ciuill Lawes to binde the people vnto the Confession of the true fayth and the right administring and receiuing of the Sacraments and to all Eccl. orders What haue they graunted heere to her Maiestie but the onely making of ciuill Lawes and thus the conclusion when all comes to al is not so much as that they graunted before or at leaste made vs a shewe thereof And yet they made to great daintie in the graunt thereof with so many exceptions which graunt notwithstanding we gladly accepted at their handes and made much of it that it is not onely lawfull but also necessarie for princes if they will doe their duetie to looke to the reformation of religion and to make lawes of Ecclesiasticall matters so that we confounde not the offices of the Prince and the Pastor Heere euerie man that meaneth no subtiltie woulde straight haue thought that as the pastor hath some part of looking to the reformation of religion and of making Lawes of matters Ecclesiasticall pertayning to the office of a pastor distinct from the office of a prince so the prince also hath some parts of looking to the reformation of religion of making lawes of matters Eccl. pertaining to the office of a prince distinct from the office of a pastor And that although the partes of eyther of their offices be distinct yet in the verie looking to that reformation of Religion and to the verie making of those Lawes of matters Ecclesiasticall they both of them dointermeddle which is the terme that their selues euen héere do vse But see nowe what a fayre gift our Brethren haue héere graunted It is lawfull and necessarie for Princes to make Lawes of matters Ecclesiasticall What Lawes Forsooth they ought to make ciuill lawes to bind the people vnto the confession of true faith and the right administring of the Sacraments and to all Ecclesiasticall orders Yea forsooth in this last and third point lieth chiefely the question of making lawes But haue they any stroke in making lawes of any those Eccl. orders No but onely that they being instructed by the word of God through the ministery of the preaching of the same shall vnderstand to be profitable to the edifyeng of the Church and the aduancement of the glorie of God should bynde the people to them What should they make ciuill lawes to bynde the people to them before that they be made lawes and orders Ecclesiasticall or howe can they be made lawes and orders Ecclesiasticall doth the scripture make all the lawes and orders Ecclesiasticall that are made or is the ministerie of the preaching of the same a sufficient instruction for the Prince to take them for Ecclesiasticall lawes bycause they put him to vnderstand that they be profytable for edifying the Church of Christ and aduancement of the glorie of God so that what they shall say as profitable héereunto that is a lawe or he must so take it or else still I demaund who had the authoritie to make those lawes and orders Ecclesiasticall except they shall say they were all made before there were any christian Princes which was theyr former refuge Albeit Moses Iosue Dauid Salomon c. will ouer-reach that shift for they had a stroke euen in the verie making of Ecclesiasticall lawes and orders them selues and not onely in the making of ciuill lawes for Ecclesiasticall lawes and orders to bynde the people vnto them and so had also dyuers Christian Princes since Christes time many of whose lawes are Ecclesiasticall lawes themselues and Canons of the Church in the Canon lawe and not onely ciuill lawes made to binde the people to keepe the Canon lawes or Ecclesiasticall orders and such also are diuers lawes of the auncient Bryttish and English Kings in this Realme and the Epistle of Eleutherius himselfe if it be his giueth Lucius no lesse authoritie But is this all that our Brethren will allow to Christian Princes and no further authoritie than this yes If any shall offend against the lawes whether he be Preacher or hearer beside the Ecclesiastical censure which he should not escape he is also to be punished in body by the ciuill Magistrate And is this againe all that we shall get more than before we got for the supreme authoritie of the Christian Prince in Ecclesiasticall matters and what more is héere graunted to the Prince than the verie Papists yea than the Pope himselfe as proude and iniurious to Princes as he is will graunt vnto them to make ciuill lawes for the defence of the lawes Ecclesiasticall that he and his Cleargy onely do make making the Princes to be the onely punishers and as it were their executioners of iustice vpon them that shall offend against their lawes This they can well allow and like that Princes should haue authority to punish the offender in body besides the Ecclesiasticall censure which the offender shall not escape at their hands and for this cause they call the Emperour the Churches aduocate and the Pope himselfe yéelded this title to King Henry the eyght to be called the defender of the faith and will our Brethren yéeld no better supremacy nor greater authority to christian Princes and so to her Maiesty than the Papists and the very Pope wil offer to yéeld her so that her Maiesty will but make ciuill lawes to bynde the people to their lawes and Ecclesiasticall orders that the Pope and his Cleargie shall make and that if any shall offend in body against his lawes whether he be Preacher or hearer besides the Ecclesiasticall censure which he should not escape he is also to be punished in body by the ciuill Magistrate all this doth the Pope offer to all the Princes in theyr dominions that haue not cast off the yoke of his subiection but liue in greatest seruitude vnder him and yet our new Pastors make all this mincing to graunt but thus
much authoritie at length vnto their Princes But now if they will beare so hard a hand that we shall get no more authoritie for the Prince and so for her Maiestie but bare and hardly this which would make a man to maruell that they which so often talke of her Maiesties supreme gouernment in Ecclesiasticall causes haue now brought it from a supremacie to such an inferioritie that the Pope will offer as much authoritie to Princes to mainteine his errors as these Pastors will offer to mainteine the Gospell yet I maruell the lesse considering all things for they haue great cause to be afrayde to graunt the Prince but thus much For haue the Prince but this authoritie ouer all the persons that if any shall offend against the lawes and orders Ecclesiasticall or against the Princes ciuill lawes made to bind the people to them whether he be Preacher or hearer besides the Ecclesiasticall censure which he should not escape that he is also to be punished in body by the ciuill Magistrate If this be so then it stands our Brethren vpon to take great héede for howsoeuer they shall despise our Prelates Ecclesiasticall censure how will they escape this bodily punishment Yea how do they not pronounce this sentence thereof against themselues do they thinke that they offend not her Maiesties lawes that thus deface them breake them and write against them or do they thinke they be not her Maiesties Lawes but the Churches or the Cleargies Did not her Maiesties approbation of them quicken confirme them to become Lawes and hath she made no other ciuill Lawes also with the whole authoritie of the Realme to establish those Lawes Or do they thinke her Maiesties Lawes to be no Lawes neyther Ecclesiasticall nor yet Ciuill so they may indéede make a wise match and finde that not onely her Maiesties Lawes be Lâ—wes and good and lawfull lawes also but that her punishments be punishments and that iust and seuere punishments too But her Maiestie is most mercifull and I hope they will be more dutifull and bethinke themselues better on these things This we see that all Christian Emperours obserued that when any controuersie arose eyther of doctrine or of order and ceremonies they commaunded the Cleargie to consult and determine thereof according to the Scripture who assembling together in counsell obeyed theyr commaundement theyr conclusion then by the authoritie of the Emperour was commaunded euery where to be obserued and those that impugned it to be punished The same order we reade to be obserued by the Christian Kings of Fraunce and Spayne yea of this our Bryttannie also in gouerning their Ecclesiasticall state by the aduice of the Cleargie of their dominion Her Maiestie taketh not on her nor desireth any more neyther do we acknowledge any lesse authoritie in her then had the auncient Christian Emperours Constantine Theodosius Valentinian Martianus Honorius Arcadius Iustinian c. And we graunt that all Christian Emperours obserued this that when any controuersie arose eyther of doctrine or of order and ceremonies if the importance of that controuersie did so require they commaunded the Cleargie to consult and to determine thereof according to the Scripture this is most true and it was well done of them Howbeit they their selues made many good Ecclesiasticall lawes and sanctions besides those which they confirmed with their supreme authoritie that by occasion of great controuersies were consulted vpon and determined in generall or prouinciall Counsels And yet euen in those Counsels the Emperour did not onely commaund the Cleargie to consult and determine of the controuersies eyther of doctrine or of order and ceremonies and when the Cleargie had consulted vpon and determined the same and had declared theyr determination to the Emperour then he allowed it and commaunded that euery where it should be obserued and those that impugned it to be punished for this indéede were no more then as I sayd before the verie Pope hymselfe saue for the commaunding of him and them could be content the Emperour yet should do so that he would intermedle nothing in the matters themselues that are in controuersie but let him and his Cleargie alone with the consulting and determining of all the controuersies and the Emperour onely to allow of their Decree and to commaund all his subiects whether they be Preachers or hearers to obserue the same and to punish those that do impugne it But that which the Pope can in no wise abide the Emperour went further than all this commeth to for besides that he did all those things in the Counselles which we haue before declared though he had also Presidents whome he appointed according as he thought méete to gouerne the Counsell and all the order and actions thereof yet now and then as the importance of the matter required and other affayres hindered him not he sate himselfe in the Counsell among them debated and consulted on the matters with them and ioyned also with them euen in the determination of the matters themselues And that this is true the Emperour Constantines owne wordes do witnesse of his owne dooings in the most famous Nicene Councell and that both in the chiefest controuersie of our faith and also in that great controuersie of the order and ceremonie of kéeping Easter day after the order that we now kéepe it whereof Constantine writing his Epistle vnto all Churches as appeareth in Socrates historie lib. 1. cap. 6. he sayeth on this wise When as I perceyued by the prosperous and flourishing estate of the common weale how greatly we are beholden to the goodnesse of Almightie God conferred vpon vs I iudged that aboue all things it behoued me of dutie to foresee that in the most holie and sacred assemblyes of the Catholike Church vnder heauen there should one faith sincere loue and charitie vniforme consent and agreement touching the religion and seruice of Almightie God inuiolably be reteyned but sithence that the same could by no other meanes be settled in sure and firme place except all the Byshops or the greatest part of them had assembled together and that euery one had giuen his iudgement of the matters perteyning to the most holie religion when as for the same cause so great an assemblie as possiblie could be made was gathered together I my selfe euen as one of your number was present together with you for neyther did I refuse to ioyne my selfe with you in that ministerie of which doing I conceyue great ioy and so farre were all the matters exquisitely sought out vntill the sentence gratefull and acceptable vnto God for the concord and consent of mens minds was openly pronounced in so much that nothing at all remayneth heereafter that may tend to discord or controuersie of the faith When as at that time it was disputed vpon concerning the feast day of Eeaster it was thought meete by the common sentence of all that all men euery where should celebrate the same
therefore sith they confesse héere and that more truly that this benefite is onely vnder a Christian Prince it followeth that their other saying was not true no nor yet this albeit in part this be the truer of the twaine yet it aunswereth not home to the due commendation setting foorth of a christian Princes authority how far it stretcheth in matters of Religion For although quietnes peaceablenes in these things is no small cōmodity for a man would giue much to buy his peace to liue in quietnes neuertheles since that in these things is not the onely end nor the chiefest end of Christian Princes nor the greatest benefite that we receaue by them but their helpe furtherance supreme authority vnder Christ in setting out godly and honest lawes ordinances decrees with the aduice of their godly learned Clergie in those matters for the establishment maintenance of godly Religion honest life in peace and quietnes therfore our bre do not here sufficiently set foorth all nor the best part of the benefits that we receiue by the authority of a godly Christian Prince nor so much as the auncient examples both in the old testamēt as the allowance of the new Testament or as the foresaid practise of the Emperors Kings in Christendom doth allow nor as we our selues haue both of late felt in the gouernments of that most Heroicall Prince King Henry the 8. and the most vertuous King Edward the 6. or that now especially if we be not to vnthankfull in not recognizing the manifold excéeding benefites that daily we all receiue enioy from the godly raigne of our most gratious soueraigne Queene Elizabeth which now most happily raigneth ouer vs God be highly blessed for her and God vouchsafe still to blesse her and giue vs better grace in all duty thankfulnes to acknowledge it Much better doth Beza euen on this sentence also in his confession cap. 5. article 44. acknowledge these benefites of the Christian Prince saying It remaineth that we treate vppon the Magistrate to wit one of the members of the Church that in his kind placed before the other without any exception As that whose force is architectonicall or building the office therfore of this magistrate is to conserue the publike peace tranquillity But when as that cannot well be done but that in the firste place the true worship of God must flowrish from the which onely all true felicity springeth it followeth that nothing ought of Christian Magistrates to be esteemed higher than that they haue the church ordered according to the prescript of Gods word the authority wherof they ought to defend mainteine against al the froward contemners disturbers therof following the example of Dauid c. This thing say they the Church most hūbly desireth of the Prince for this end the Church continually praieth to God for the Prince in this respect the church most obediently submitteth her selfe vnto the prince as a childe to his nurse that both Prince and people may honor God in this life and after this life raigne with Christ euerlastingly This conclusion is a great deale better than the premisses For in them we had all thinges still driuen to the Princes abasing of themselues vnto the Church Which subiection notwithstanding in the foresaid sense as she is the spouse of Christ the Prince a particular person as she is the mother the Prince her childe so well as any of his subiects we deny it not But here now at length our bre tell vs another tale how the church desireth of the Prince how the Church not onely praieth continually for the Prince but also most obediētly submitteth her selfe vnto the Prince as a child to his nursse In these words is inferred a great authority of the Prince ouer the Church Now if we shal see what the matters are wherin this authority of the Prince ouer the church cōsisteth al this controuersy is forthwith cōcluded And here to the specifying of this point this thing say our bre the church most humbly desireth of the Prince what is this thing For this end the Church continually prayeth to God for the Prince what is this end In this respect the Church most obediently submitteth her selfe vnto the Prince as a childe to his nurse and what also is this respect For we may either refer this thing this end this respect eyther to the words that wēt before or to the words that follow If we shall refer them to the words that follow that both Prince people may honour god in this life and after this life raign with christ euerlastingly our br frō giuing to little may giue too much except they make Princes to be but as meanes instruments herevnto as also be the Eccl. ministers in their callings Both of thē the prince they are the instruments meanes that God hath ordeined to this end in the gouernment of his church by the making of good Eccl. lawes that both Prince and people may honor God in this life of the consequence that God hath vouhsafed to set downe I will honor them that honor me theymay after this life raigne with Christ euerlastingly But if we shall refer this thing this end this respect to the words going before that is a peaceable and a quiet life in all godlines honesty then are we neuer the hearer for the point in question to know how far foorth in procuring a peaceable quiet life in al godlines honesty our br wil graūt the authority of the Prince to stretch whether to make with the aduice of their learned clergy Eccl. lawes cōducing aswel to godlines that is to say to gods true religion worship as to honesty to a peaceable quiet life yea or no. For this is the very pitch of the question in controuersy They say that the Prince with the aduice of the learned clergy maye make ciuill lawes for Eccl. matters And we say that the Prince with the aduice of the learned clergy may make euen Eccl. lawes or lawes not onely for but of Eccl. matters They say that the Pastors onely though for a shew now and then they ioyne with the Pastors those whom they tearm the gouernors must make the decrees lawes Eccl. apperteining to order cōlines aedification of the church yea who but teachers preachers is able to know thē then the prince must make ciuill lawes to bind the people to al eccl orders that they being instructed by the word of god through the ministery of the preaching of the same shall vnderstande to bee profitable for edifying the church of christ to the aduancement of the glory of god And yet somwhat furder If any shal offend against the lawes whether he be preacher or hearer besides the eccl censure which he should not escape he is
persons being Protestants being faithfull Ministers being learned discoursers would God they would better bethinke themselues It is beyond my learning and a great scruple it is in many mens consciences that think our Br. haue set their conscience on the tenters much charged it rather then any whit discharged it do not according to their dutie therein nor that this their doing is any true or good way of reformatioÌ„ but if ought were amisse to make it much worse if not to marre it quite and to giue licence vnto such a way as would or might bring all things to an vtter deformation and confusion And here it followeth prettely at the hard heeles that might set the matter well forward And to mooue them say they that haue authoritie to put it in practise and to seeke by all lawfull and ordinary meanes that it may take place that it may please God to giue it good successe What meane they here by these perilous spéeches And is this also a part of conscience dutie and the true way of reformation to mooue them that haue authoritie to put it in practise Who are these that haue authoritie whom our Br. would by this their writing moue to put in practise this forme of reformation Would they haue any that haue authoritie in the Realme committed vnto them by and vnder the Queenes most excellent maiestie to attempt this without her maiesties authoritie therevnto whom they called before our most gracious soueraigne when they made their last protestation No wee hope there is none that in her maiesties dominions hath any authoritie committed vnto him will be moued by this writing or by any other writing or solliciting of our Bretheren to put this forme in practise without â—e haue her maiesties authoritie so to doe she hauing now God be praysed long continue it the supreme authoritie of these matters Neither should they that haue but inferiour authoritie to her maiestie yea all the Magistrates in the Realmes of her dominions holding all the authoritie that they haue immediatly or mediatly from her Maiestie and her Maiestie immediatly from God seeke any lawfull and ordinary meanes but vnlawfull and beyond extraordinarie if they should practise that this may take place without her authoritie thereunto especially it being with all the direct ouerthrowe of her chiefe authoritie They doe well to say that they would haue them do it by lawfull and ordinarie meanes wherein our Bretheren differ from the Papists that seeke vijs modis by all meanes to put in practise their desperate resolutions Which as God defeateth and our Bretheren detest so what lawfull and ordinary meanes can they imagine to put this their forme in practise agaynst her Maiesties will that may stand with her supreme authoritie And therefore in my opinion this is very ill done and daungerously spoken of our Br. to cast foorth such suspitious words as to moue them that haue authoritie so to abuse it or as though they would or should be mooued to this practise And for my parte I protest that I like all this whole learned discourse the worse that in the ende and conclusion of all it should come to this drift which verely is not pleasing vnto God nor God will euer I dare warrant it giue it good successe if the winde begin once to blow in at that doore which God forbid that euer we should see that tyme. But what is the tyme that here they speake off At this tyme to be imbraced It should seeme to be at the time of the Parliament as may appeare by the last part of their protestation saying We protest before the liuing God c. and the whole assemblie of all estates of this Realme I meruell much at this practise of our Bretheren that they are so eager in their pursuite to haue their platformes put in practise that they see not how they crosse in this doing their owne writings They are still at euery Parliament offering vp their little bookes for I forbeare to call them Libels to auoyde offence of the reformations that they call vpon vnto the high and most honourable Court of Parliament Wherein although if wee should lay together and conferre all their bookes and formes of reformation that they haue offred vp vnto the Parliaments wee should finde great varieties and some contrarieties among them yet let them agree or disagrée in other things how they shall what doe they meane herein by putting them vnto the Parliament Would they haue these controuersies to bee disputed vpon and determined by the Parliament That is cleane contrary to the chiefe materiall poynts of the very bookes themselues that they offer vp vnto the Parliament For except they will make all the Burgesses in the nether house and all the Lords in the higher house to bee Ecclesiasticall persons and either Doctors and Pastors whom also they make all Bishoppes teachers and Preachers of the word and Sacraments at least wise such Presbyters Priestes or Elders not teaching whom they call Gouernours if they shall be present as any parts and members or necessarie regents of the assemblie and not only as spectatores or auditores tantum if they shall remayne still as lay ciuill or politicke persons so that they can not by their owne Canons haue any voyces at least not determine any thing in Eccl. matters especially so great and important matters as they make them And what would they haue the Parliament then to doe in these things Nay whaâ— will they suffer them to doe Yea what would the Parliament doe when they should finde that in the very bookes offred vnto them of these matters they are prohibited to deale in these matters Yea how can they deale in these matters and allow these Pastors to come in and take them vp for their labour saying vnto them yea my Lords and Maisters dare ye take vpon you or are ye able to deale in these matters or so much as to knowe them For who should be able to know what order comelinesse and aedification requireth according to Gods word but they that bee teachers and preachers of the same vnto all others For it is absurd that they should bee taught by such in these small things as ought to learne the trueth of them in all matters pag. 117. and much more absurd that they should be taught by such in greater matters Yea they ought to learne the truth of them in all matters If the Parliament once heare this thunder cracke conticuere omnes intemtique ora tenebunt If some one among them perhaps doe replie and say If they will not suffer vs to haue any thing to doe in debating and determining of these matters why then a Gods name doe they put them vp to vs or what would they haue vs to do in them except they will giue vs some authoritie of them But they are so farre from giuing vs any such authoritie that they
say wee are not able so much as to knowe them No nor yet their owne Consistorie gouernors able to knowe them but onely the teachers and preachers of the same to all others And what will they then allowe to vs If the Parliament heare this man speake thus may they not thinke that man speaketh reasons and that there was little reason in troubling them continually with those matters in the Parliament house whereof they may not according to the libertie of that most honorable assemblie speake their mynds in reuerent maner pro contra freely and no man debarred of his speech or iudgement or els the house would better aduise themselues how they permitted such fellowes to come among them or to bring in such billes or bookes among them of which they must be restrained of their libertie both of speech and iudgement Yea what if now another waxing bolder in the Parliament house would tell these faithfull ministers that the matters conteyned in this learned discourse being Ecclesiasticall matters were to be consulted vpon and determined by those that were the Bishops Pastors of the Realme and Church of England and that they had a Conuocation Synodall assemblie among themselues and that they must go to them and be tryed by theÌ„ and bee as well content to submit themselues to the determination of the Bishops and Pastors lawfully and orderly there assembled as they would to haue it tryed in the ParliameÌ„t if they were all such Eccl. persons as were the other And that if they would flee froÌ„ their owne coate Eccl. company to such as were but ciuill and politick persons saue that they were ChristiaÌ„s as other of the people were they should giue an ill example preiudice their matters and make themselues and their bookes to be more mistrusted as not daring to abide the censure of the chifest professors of those matters Tractent fabrilia fabri Ecclesiasticall matters to be tryed by Ecclesiasticall persons And that this is according to their owne â—ositions For who should be able to knowe at least wise who ought better to knowe what order comelinesse and edification requireth according to Gods worde than they that be teachers and preachers of the same vnto all others For it is absurd that they should be taught by such in these small things and much lesse in greater things as ought to learne the trueth of them in all matters And therfore go to theÌ„ and let theÌ„ determine those controuersies If our Bretheren shall heare this tale and their owne words thus duelie returned on themselues may they not then thinke they haue well helped themselues by putting vp these matters to the Parliament And if the Parliament should aunswer them thus should they not aunswer theÌ„ aright But if now they had rather reuoke some of their positions giue the ParliameÌ„t authority to deale herein than to haue them be determined by the Bishops what on the other side would they haue the Parliament do without the authoritie of the Prince Yea how chaunce they put not vp their bookes writings first to her Maiestie mooue her first for if they accounted her Maiestie indeed the supreme gouernor of all persons in al her dominions in all causes so wel Eccl. as temporall would they haue the Parliament decree those things without her Maiestie Or the Parliament wherof her Maiestie is the supreme gouernor to determine these things without any debating of them Or if they should be debated vpoÌ„ who should rather do it theÌ„ the Clergie And haue not al that haue bin assembled together alreadie both the Bishops the whole Conuocation consulted debated and determined alreadie on the matter And if they would haue her Maiestie the Parliament to deale further therein haue they not done that also Hath not her Maiestie ratefied and authorized al their articles that the Conuocation agreed vpon And hath not the whole Parliament also approued allowed so ratefied and confirmed al the Communion booke besides the acknowledgement of her Maiesties supremacie all the articles agréed and decréed vpon all or the most or chéefest of the lawes and orders Eccl. now standing in force and established amongst vs And would they haue them reuoke cancell all that they haue doone in these matters or what else would they haue the Parliament herein to doo If they offer to dispute of these matters either before the whole Parliament or before anie by the Parliament deputed to heare the disputation betwéene vs of these controuersies doo they hope to dispute better and with more deliberat iudgement of that they shall saie ex tempore than that they haue with aduisement written or can write thereon or that we can dispute woorse or not so well as they persuade themselues they can Or doo they thinke as Aeschines said Quid si ipsam belluam andissetis they shall better persuade and mooue the hearers of them more by their liuelie spéeches than by their learned writings and so win it that waies Verelie wée refuse no waie what it shall please our most gratious souereigne and hir most honorable counsell or the high court of Parliament to appoint if that would serue the turne for anie further triall of renewing neuer so often these matters by disputing and calling them in question againe and againe for God be praised in so good a cause we néed not feare the euent they that could so win the garland let them weare it But we maie easilie sée before the disputation shall begin that all this would not serue their turne in these controuersies which the word of God hath not expreslie decided but in generalitie referred to these thrée heads comlinesse order aedification Who shall iudge and determine of our disputation they haue before hand debarred the prince and all that are not teachers and preachers and both the parties in controuersie are teachers and preachers and they saie it were no reason that we being the parties in controuersie on the one side though we be teachers and preachers should be determiners iudges what is comlinesse order and edifieng in these things and maie not we saie the same to them againe that they being also parties in controuersie on the other side though they be teachers and preachers it is no reason that they should be determiners and iudges what is comlinesse order and aedifieng in these things and when shall then these matters be iudged and determined Except we would yéeld to them or they would yéeld to vs or both to some other as to hir maiesty and the ParliameÌ„t But if they shall so doo they should conuince themselues before hand that the forme is vntrue and false which they haue alredie before hand not onlie auowed to be true but so determined alredie and so before hand peremptorily prescribed both to vs and to the Parliament to the Quéens maiestie also that we must all yéeld of
are disordered But be this and theirs neuer so well ordered mought they not through abuses or corruptions be disordered Or what warrant can they giue vs that this forme which they prescribe should neuer be disordered And would they be content that any shoulde call this their forme a disordered forme onely because of the abuses and corruptions So that admitting this their owne forme had in it selfe no disorder yet this may touch their owne forme so well as ours But they thinke they haue answered that alreadie pag. 132. That although vpon this their forme there crept in as many or mo abuses than now there are yet God though he condemne abuses would approoue their order Because say they it is grounded vpon Gods worde But we could there finde no such ground but only that it is grounded in their méere fancies it is no more grounded on Gods worde nor yet so much grounded by many parts as our forme is grounded And therefore if they may say God approueth our order though he condemne the abuses then may her Maiestie for her supreme authoritie if any vnder her abuse her Maiesties authoritie thē may our Bishops for their supreme dignitie iurisdiction then may our Doctors for their exhorting and applying then may our Pastors for their ministerie ordeyning then may our Deacons for their attendance on the ministerie and preparing themselues to be made Pastors then may our Eccl. Presbyters Priests or Elders which are not altogether debarred from teaching though most employed in gouerning much better say for our forme of the Churches gouernement we shall be sure that God approoueth our order in these thinges though he condemne the abuses in any of these thinges because the order is grounded vpon Gods worde And so farre our forme of Eccl. gouernment is not disordered But they say of our forme of Eccl. gouernment it is that which we haue receaued for the most part of Poperie These spéeches are againe verie sclaunderous vntruthes that wee haue receaued the most part or any part of poperie or that we haue receaued this forme of poperie for the most part thereof We haue receiued indéede we do confesse at the handes of the Papistes diserse thinges which our Brethren can not denie to be good thinges Neither is the receiuing of a thing that is good from a man that is ill preiudiciall to the goodnesse of the thing Yea although the good thing were defiled or abused by the ill mans ill handling of it if when we receiue it we reiect the defilinges and abuses and reduce the thing to his originall vse or proper nature We haue receaued manie excellent thinges from the Iewes yea many notable thinges also from the verie Heathen but farre better if not the best of all from the Papistes For from whom could wee haue gotte them else As for their Poperie that is the Popes and Papistes abuses and corruptions Such rie we haue not receaued from them reteyning the Poperie If we haue taken the good and left the badde that ought not as a fault to be vpbrayded vnto vs but rather deserueth commendation But what meane they here in these wordes that we haue receiued for the most part of Poperie Doe they acquitte vs yet of some part And why then doe they thus condemne all the whole Ecclesiasticall Gouernement Do they it because they say it is the most part And yet when it commeth to the tryall they shall finde it so much the lesse part that indéed it is no part at all which we haue receiued of the Papistes wherein anie corruption was that considering the establishment of them by the lawes nowe in force wee haue not altered and corrected So that if nowe there bee other abuses rysing yet properly it is not to be called Poperie except to Papistes that vse it still in their popish manner and so they will doe euen the Sacramentes also and Gospell of Iesus Christe and yet may not these thinges but that kinde of abusing them bee called poperie But from whence haue our Brethren to proue this forme of their eccl Gouernment gotten all these arguments That the Church of God was perfect in al her regiment or euer there was any Christian Prince pag. 9. That the authoritie which their Pastors claime was graunted to the Church by our Sauiour Christ practized by the Apostles continued by their successors three hundred yeres before there was any Christian Emperors pag. 118. That the Christian Princes authoritie reacheth no further than to make ciuill lawes to binde the people to the confession of true sayth and the right administring and receauing of the Sacramentes and to all Ecclesiasticall orders that they beeing instructed by the worde of God through the ministerie of the preaching of the same shall vnderstande to bee profitable for aedifying of the Church of Christ and for the aduauncement of the glorie of God If anie shall offende against the lawes whether he be preacher or hearer besides the Ecclesiasticall censure which he should not escape he is also to be punished in bodie by the ciuill Magistrate pag. 141. And againe why should it be counted for any dishonour to Princes to bee obedient to the lawes of God their Father and to serue to the commoditie of the Church their mother It is a greater honour to bee the sonne of God and the childe of the Church than to be Monarke of all the earth pag. 143. and hereto are alleaged for the Princes seruice and subiection Esa 49. to thinke no seruice too base for them so that they may profite the Church Ps. 2. and 1. Tim. 2. What haue we here Is this Sanders or Stapleton or Fecknā or Hosius or some other Papist that speaketh in these voyces and hath all these Popish argumentes Or is it not some Pope himselfe that vseth them against the supreme authoritie of Christian Princes If this bee Iacob may we not say with Isaac Come neere my sonne that I may feele thee whether thou be my sonne Esau or not But what neede we feare that We wish all blessing and good to Iacob and that Esau should serue him Yea we acknowledge no sonne nor brother but Iacob Yea but for all that the voice is Iacobs voice but the handes are the handes of Esau What And haue ye then indeede Brethren got Esaus voice also Or but couered your handes with a beastes rough skinne to get the blessing And doe not those rough handes make the blessing worse Ha Brethren Brethren for shame burden not vs herein if we haue receaued some thing concerning but the forme of the Churches gouernment from the Papistes hauing clensed the same from the roughnesse of it and abuse◠and your selues in so great a matter of the Churches supreme gouernment haue gotten all the fiue fingers yea the whole yea the very rough hande it selfe herein of Esau. Of Esau say I Nay of all these Papistes and of the man of sinne himself that childe of perdition that
preach The preaching of a sermon no necessary part of the sacrament The abuses of the Lords supper that S. Paule reproued in the Corinth No probability that S. paul thought preaching at the communion to be so absolutely necessary as our Breth vrge it The vse and practise of the Apostles in the communion Act. 2.42 The Geneua note Caluinus in Act. 2. 1. doctrine 2. the communion or brotherly loue 3. the sacrament 4. prayer Marloratus in Act. 2. Act. 20 â— c 7. 11. The primitiue church The practise of the primitiue Church Iustinus Martyr in defens pro Christ. ad Antoninum Pium. Iustinus Martyr The ministration of the L. supper without a sermon The supper of the Lord ministred with a sermon Iustines words maintaine neither transubstantiation nor consubstantiation Iustinus in dialogo cum Triphone Iudeo impress paris 1565. fol. 42. The occasioÌ„ of mingling water with the wine in the sacram Aretius in probl â—om 2. tit de fract panis The Heluetian order Aretius description of ministring the Lordes supper in the reformed Churches of Heluetia Kneeling at the communion not offensiue The learned disc pag. 60. 61. Bridges Abilitie of expounding Abilitie to expouÌ„d the mysterys of the sacram Vnable ministers not allowed The learned disc pag. 61. Bridges How the elements are dead beggerly Caluinus in Coll. 2. Caluinus in Gal. 4. A generall preaching Aug. tractat in Ioh. 80. The ioining of the word to the elemens Rom. 10. Act. 15. â— Pet. 3. The word preâ—ching at the face comprehendeth the action of all the people The worde abused The wordes that Christ spake in that action were not preaching Oleuianus in Rom. 10.8 * In visua The Papists magicall abuse of the word The worde rightly vsed The sacrameÌ„tall signes hauing the word so vttered by the ministers as it may be vnderstood are not beggerly elementes The life of the sacr liâ—th not in the manner of preching the word Our forms of sacram Baptisme may be ministred with out a sermoÌ„ How clearely the word is set foorth in our form of baptisme How fully the worde all the mystâ—rie of Châ—ists deth and our vnion with him is set foorth in our form of the communion Sacrilege Our Breth intemperate speeches against our formes of minisâ—ting the sacram Caluinus in Epist. 265. No necessitie of preaching at baptisme Caluinus in Gal. 4. â— How the Papistes committed sâ—crilege in the L. supper How sermons are very profitable at the sacrament Caluin in instit cap. 18. sect 34. Four kinds of preaching The diuerse kindes of preaching in the Lords supper The papistes mute actioÌ„s in the Lords supper What is the preaching of the words of Christe Caluines order in the Lordes supper The sacrament ministred according to our forme hath a true consecration The forme that Caluin prescribeth with a fourth kind of preaching Musc. for the M. of the Sacrment that are not preachers The reformed Churches wherin the Minist that are not preachers do minister the sacraments Many can minister the Sacrament that cannot preache Musculus for the pointes requisite in the sacrament VVhat kind of preaching Musculus requireth in the L. Supper The seale the writing ioyned The effect of Musculus argument Ministers forbidden to preach The learned Dis. Pag. 61. Bridges We haue both the seale and the writing ioined in our form of sacrament The learned disc Pag. 61. Bridges What ministers herein wee defend defend not Our brethr accusation lighteth on their own selues Baptizme by Women The force of the sacrament substance therof dependeth not vpoÌ„ the ministers not preaching The learned disc pag. 61. 62. 1. Cor. 13 34 1. Tim. 2.11 Bridges Baptising by women Baptisme in priuate places Womens speaking in the Congregation The Eunuches baptisme Acts. 8. Cornelius Baptisme Acts. 10. The cleare light of the Gospell debarreth not al perticuler necessities of occasion nor diuersityes of circumstances preiudicate the substaÌ„ce or vertue of the sacrament Necessity of baptisme Nâ—cessity of â—â—rcuâ—ncisioÌ„ Necessity of baptism Gellius Snecanus in methodâ— baptis parte 6. The forme baptizing sâ—t down by Snecanus Hellopaeus de sacrameÌ„tis cap. de bapt pag. 120. Cap. 8. pag. 155. Howe farre womens extraordinarie bapâ—â—sme De post facto iâ— iâ—proued CircumstaÌ„ces in baptisme Cap. 8.171 The form of baptizing allowed by Heâ—lopeus Baptism effectuall and formall ynough with out a sermoÌ„ The custom of answering in the childes name The words of consecration What is the word added to the element to make the sacrament in the L. Supper Tâ—e onely words of the Institution doe make consecration Which are woâ—des of the institution Beza for the forme effect of Bapt. Bezaes opinion of holding the infant vnder the water Baptisme true Baptisme witâ—out a â—ermâ—oÌ„ The truth of Bapt. for al the abuses How true lawfull we may better thinke our Bapâ—isme is Bezaes saying confutes our Learned discoursers Our Brethr. more allow of the Papistes ministration of the sacraments than of the Protestants that are not precherâ— Necessitie of Bapt. Baptisme hath more neede to be receaued lesse neede of a sermon to the receiuer of it Whatnecessitie we denie or grant in the sacrament Christes in situation Whâ—t is and is not necessarily conteyned in Christes institution of the sacr The daungerous sequele of our Breth assertion The Popish corruptions Beza in confess Christ. cap. 4. 〈◊〉 35. Our Breth vse the sacr without the pub assemb and times prescribed of the Church Bezaes modestie Bezaes modestie Our Brethr. contradiction Our Breth dangerous positions Our Brethr. absurdities in this assertion The learned Dis. Pag. 62. 63. 1. Cor. 1.17 Bridges Our Brethr. most daungerous conclusion Baptisme banished throughout the most part of Christendome No preacher no sacrament What a state our Breth vnder pretence of making it better would bring vs vnto The duty of a good Curate that is no preacher The inconuenience of our Brethr. rule No preacher no sacrament Our Brethr. extraordinary order till all places caÌ„ be furnished with preachers The daungers flowing from this rule Principall and accessorie Preaching is not the principall thing but accessory to the sacram What is the principall thing in the sacrament Beza in confess cap. 4. art 35. The coÌ„mendation of the sacram Calminus in 1. Cor. 1.17 The separation of the sacr and preaching How the administratioÌ„ of the sacr preaching may be ioyned and separated How our Breth owne positions ouerthâ—owe themselues Act. 16.16 The learned Dis. Pag. 63. 64. Act. 6.4 1. Tim. â— â— 1 Cor. 14.16 1. Cor. 14.40 1. Cor. 14.16 Bridges The Iewes publike prayers A pâ—escribed forme of prayers diuine seruice among the Iewes before Christes coÌ„ming Numb 6.22 c. 1. Chron. 9.33 1. Chron. 16.4 7. The Geneua note 1. Chr. 21.2 The Iewes order in the Apostles time The publike prayers in the Apostles times The Christians order in the Apostles time Col. 4.16 Ephes. 5.19 1. Cor. 14.26 The
of Synods Christes presence The suspicious eueÌ„ts of our Br. Synodes The promise of Christ Mat. 18. Hee descendeth to particular assemblies The learned disc pa. 112. 113. Authority in Synodes Bridges The Pastors authoritie with the Synode The superior authority of calling Councelles The auncieÌ„t Emperors authoritie heerein Determining in Synodes To whomâ— the authoritie â—o determine doth belong The assemblie of the Elders Actes 15. Matter of doctrine of discipline The Elders Act. 15 were Pastorall What the multitude did at the assemblie Who are ment by the multitude The multitudes dealing Acts. 15. Acts. 15.12 Beza in Act. 15.12 Our Br. flat contrarie to Beza The people dealt not iâ— the determining of the controuersy Beza in Act. 15.23 Calu. in Act. 15.22 23. No such Elders gouernors not Teachers as our Br. conceiue Actes 15. The peoples consent and obedience to the Pastors decrees Of whome our Br. make the Synode to consist Foure kind of persons Pastors Elders Teachers men of wisdom c. Necessariâ— Regents Whom they meane here by Elders Deacons mentioned in the Synode Who are meant by the men of Wisedome Iudgement and grauity Necessary Regents in the Synode The order of the Synode Wherefore the Pastors wherefore the whole multitude came together How our Br. confute themselues The â—earing of all mens reasons The disputation Caluine Gods word preuayled Good order obserued The controuersie concluded by Iames his sentence The authoritie of determining How the Synode ioyneth with the Byshop or chiefe Pastor in the determining The bishops prerogatiue and singular authoritie in determining How the Byshop hath his prerogatiue How the prerogatiue was graunted The good order and disorder of Synodes The learned disc pa. 113.114 115. The preeminance of one Bridges Our Brethrens confession of one Pastors preemineÌ„ce aboue the rest VVhat preeminence it was The points conteined in our Brethrens confession of preeminence 1 One ouer the rest 2 In euery assembly 3 It must be so of necessitie 4 To order and to dispose the companie Reason the limitation of the disposing Confusion if it be not thus How contrary this confession is to our Brethrens former assertions The preeminence restrained The consequence of our Brethrens confession Our Brethren beginning to reuoke their former confession What they meane by preeminence of order How there is no preeminence of order in the pastorall ministerie The superioritie of iurisdiction in the authoritie of dignitie Preminence of order How our Brethren denying the lesse conâ—esse the greater The example of Iames. Our BrethreÌ„s prooâ— of a continuing preeminence Iames his continuing preemineÌ„ce At the time when Paule acknowledged Iames his preeminence there was no Synode called Caluinus in Gal. 1. No Synod holden at Ierusalem when Iames notwithstanding continued his preeminence The definition of a Synode Dâ—naeus in Christ. Isagog part 3. lib. 3. cap. 35. The argument following on these examples Continuing preeminence The superioritie of one among the Apostls was not in respect of the Apostleship The prerogatiue of order conteineth a superioritie of dignitie The ordinary assembly in Ierusalem The like standing assemblie at Antiochia The ordinary assembly or companie of many Pastors in some churches The consequence of our BrethreÌ„s graunt The Presidents and Prolocutors The Presidents of the Counsels The Prolocutor calleth not the Counsell The seueral superiorities of Byshops and Archbyshops The superioritie to call the assemblies was before the assemblies were made The supremacy of the Christian Princes ouer Counselles The Princes supremacie Difference of President Prolocutor Howe the Emperors sate in the Councils The Emperors graunt of the Presidentship in the CouÌ„cils Beza in cons. Christ. cap. 5. art 12. The chiefe office of thâ— Christian Magistrate Beza ibid. art 15. The ancient authoritie of the Emperor ouer the CouÌ„cil Bezaes graÌ„t to Chr. Princes more than our Br. 〈◊〉 Archb. superiority Bezaes graÌ„t to Metropolitanes ouer Prouinciall nationall câ—unsels Bezaes allowance of Archbishops and the conditions thereof to be reuoked or retaiâ—ed If Archb. were simply forbid no conditions would help Archb. lawfull by Bezaes confession Bezaes condicions of allowing Archb. Conditions to the Archb. 1 ConditioÌ„ of reparing the Churches ruines How this coÌ„dition is no sufficient debarre against the office of Archb. 2 ConditioÌ„ that no tyrannie be brought into the Church The accepting Archb. with this condition proueth that the office is not tyrannicall The tyrannicall abuse of the Pastors officÄ— The ground of the Metropolitanes is of God Metropolitanes allowed The tyraÌ„nie in Metropolitanes that Beza excepteth against The tying of the holie Ghost to a or person Bezaes 3. coÌ„dition of all things referred to edification This againe prooueth that Metropolitanes edification may be ioyned Our Br. are not the meâ— thaâ— Beza saith he and his are in acknowledging Metâ—opolitanes Danaeus in Christ. Isag 3. part lib. 3. cap. â—8 The calling of Prouincial Councils perteined to Metropolitane B. The cause why the Fr. refoâ—med Churches kept not the olde order The tempering this authoritie How Danaeus alloweth or disalloweth herein ether the ciuill Magistrate or Metropolitane Our Brethr. conclusions The preheminence prerogatiue of order is also of authoâ—itie The tempering of this authoritie The Synods authoritie The incroching of our brethren in â—hese things The danger of this incrocking The learned discourse pa. 115. 116. Bridges The Synods authority in deciding coÌ„trouersies RenocatioÌ„ by inferiors Matters lawfullie decided in councels prouinciall not to be reuoked by inferior persons The determinatioÌ„ by Gods word The obseruations of the ceremoniall lawe were not properlie matters of â—aith doctrine The learned disc pa. 116. 117 Determination of ceremonies Bridges The Synods authority in determining ceremonies Necessarie causes Taking offence and mistaking superstition Bearing with the weake Our Brethr. offence that herein they haue giuen Order comlines and aedification The Synods authoritie Paphnutius his gainsaying the whol councell Particular persons or congregations not to coÌ„trol herein the Synods decreeâ— Our Br. former conclusion Pag. 76 against theÌ„selues The Churches lawfull authoritie not to bee impugned Our Br. owne example Acts. 15. against themselues The Synods commandement for a time The auoiding offences and pollutions The strongers forbearance for the weakers offence 1. Cor. 10. The Pastors knowledge Gal. 4.3 Our Br. calling of the Apostles times the Churches childish age Difference of temporal constitutions The weaknes ceasing or turned to obstinacie The learned disc pa. 117. Bridges The Prouinciall Councels authoritie to determine The knowledge of the teachers and Preachers in order comlinesse and aedification The knowledge of many that are not publike teachers Preachers The reason that makes our Br. think none can knowe these things but teachers preachers The Pastors may bee to seeke in some small thinges How the lâ—ytie may teach the Cleargie The learned disc pa. 117. 118 Bridges All the drift of our Br. conclusion is beere against the Christian Princes authoritie Our Br. words directly ouertâ—row
both the best and best learned of them haue consulted vppon and consented vnto haue agreed vpon and decreed also the same lawes that yet it shall not be lawfull to her Maiestie bycause of the dissent of a few other whome she knoweth not to be her Pastors to make any lawes at all of Ecclesiasticall matters or to looke to the reformation of religion why might not the Papists vse this reason as well as our Brethren to debarre her Maiesties right and authoritie héerein yea did not they vse the selfe-same reason pleading that they were the Pastors of the Realme and so her Maiesties Pastors also and that she could not looke to the reformation of Religion nor make lawes of matters Ecclesiasticall contrarie to their knowledge and consenting for at her Maiesties first entrie into her raigne as she carefully looked before all other things to the reformation of Religion and to make godly lawes of Ecclesiasticall matters so the Popish Pastors which then were most in number and greatest in power and were in dutie her Pastors also if they had perfourmed their dutie dutifully which they did not neyther can we denie but that they or many of them were learned also if they had had grace aunswerable to learning and had submitted their learning to truth and not deteyned others in blindnesse of ignorance to mainteine their errors was it not lawfull therefore vnto her Maiestie to looke to the reformation of religion and to make lawes of matters Ecclesiasticall bycause it was contrarie to their acknowledging and to their consenting yes she perfourmed all this mawger their withstanding and she did well yea most excellent well in her so doing not yet as the Papists cried out and still crie that she did contrarie to the knowledge of her learned Pastors for they accounted none to be learned Pastors nor at all to be Pastors but themselues But her Maiestie did these things with the consent of those that were both Pastors and her Pastors too and her learned Pastors and euen by learning it was tried and by the better learning of her better learned Pastors vicit veritas the truth had the victorie and Poperie was confounded And so her Maiestie made her lawes of Ecclesiasticall matters and reformation of Religion with the consent of her learned Pastors and established them with the approbation and authoritie of all the states of the Realme and Church of England and hath God be praysed happily continued till now of late as though we had not inough to do with the continuall maligning sclaunders and practises of the Popish Pastors and their adherents we fall out vnhappily among our selues and as her Maiesties godly and learned Pastors ioyned then with her Maiestie against the Popish Pastors in displacing them with all their errors and superstitious Ecclesiasticall lawes and reformed religion and made these lawes Ecclesiasticall that are now as yet in force so a new kinde of Pastors begin a new stur and are weary of these Ecclesiasticall lawes and of this reformation and of all these Pastors calling themselues the faithfull Ministers that seeke the reformation of the Church of England and would trie these matters againe by learning and so among other theyr bookes writings thereon haue now at length set forth to all the realme this learned discourse of Ecclesiasticall gouernment and her Maiestie must now reuoke all the reformation and Ecclesiasticall lawes that she hath then and since made with her learned Pastors that then were and begin afresh both to turne out all those Pastors for no right ordeyned Pastors and to make new lawes of Ecclesiasticall matters and a new reformation with their consents that say they be now her learned Pastors and on these conditions they wil admit her title of supremacy and her authority to do these things or else not If her Maiesty now shall heare of this what may she thinke thereon how may she comfort her selfe and warrant her actions in all things that she hath done already for if they were well done they may well continue if they may not well continue but must be vndone it is an argument they were not well done But her Maiesty though this be no small grief vnto her to haue all her doings thus ript vp againe by her owne subiects and professors of the same Gospell that she professeth and though it be no small triumph to the aduersaries of the Gospell and argument for them to descant vpon against her Maiestie and against both our Brethren and vs and all true Protestants yet let not her most excellent Maiesty be disinayed hereat though indéede it be a great corsie but when her Maiesty looketh on the grounds of the matter and not on the vnthankfulnes and mutabilitie of men and lifteth vp her eyes to heauen from whence commeth her saluation how mightely God hath blessed and defended her and prospered these things vnder her hands her Maiesty shall receyue a greater comfort and confirmation against all the treasonable practises of those her deadly aduersaries of the one partie and all the dangerous innouations of these her ouer-zealous subiects on the other party and represse them both in iustice and mercie with safe continuance and good successe God willing of all her Maiesties reformation and lawes that she hath made of Ecclesiasticall matters hetherto with the knowledge and consent of those that then were or yet are her learned Pastors And except these our new Pastors that would be haue any better learning not yet reuealed than is conteyned in this their learned discourse the learned Pastors that are now in place and in Pastorall authoritie will by Gods grace maynteyne and defende by truth and sound learning their authorities and the Ecclesiasticall lawes that her Maiesty hath made with their knowledge consents welynough I warrant them And let our Brethren to begin withall looke to this point better For sith they graunt it is her Maiesties authoritie to make Lawes of Eccl. matters so that she take from the Pastor none of these 3. offices Preaching Ministring the Sacraments nor the Eccl. Gouernment from them the Queenes Maiestie hauing made her Lawes without doing any of these thrée thinges nor hauing taken from the Pastor the thirde any more then the two first Let them looke to it both how they disobey the Lawes she hath made and how they cast foorth such suspitious sclaunders on her Maiestie as though in making her Lawes she did take the Pastors Ecclesiasticall gouernment from him By this it appeareth howe farre it is lawfull for Princes to intermeddle with causes Ecclesiasticall namely that it is the cheefest point of their duty to haue speciall regard that God may be glorified in their dominion and therefore they ought to make ciuill Lawes to binde the people vnto the Confession of the true fayth and the right administring and receiuing of the sacraments and to all Ecclesiasticall orders that they being instructed by the worde of God through the