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scripture_n which_o be_v give_v by_o the_o same_o inspiration_n to_o the_o same_o man_n if_o we_o may_v imagine_v it_o sure_o we_o can_v believe_v it_o and_o if_o it_o be_v a_o institution_n of_o the_o apostle_n inspire_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n why_o must_v it_o be_v distinguish_v from_o the_o express_a law_n of_o god_n do_v he_o make_v it_o but_o a_o evangelical_a counsel_n not_o require_v it_o as_o necessary_a to_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n sure_o this_o be_v some_o opinion_n of_o a_o new_a cut_n for_o the_o last_o defendant_n of_o episcopacy_n before_o this_o remonstrant_a say_v thus_o 91._o the_o power_n of_o ordination_n have_v be_v ever_o hold_v so_o intrinsical_v to_o episcopacy_n that_o i_o will_v fain_o see_v where_o it_o can_v be_v show_v that_o any_o extremity_n of_o necessity_n be_v ever_o acknowledge_v a_o warrant_n sufficient_a for_o other_o to_o ordain_v so_o that_o in_o his_o judgement_n where_o there_o be_v no_o bishop_n there_o can_v be_v no_o lawful_a 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that_o the_o apostle_n john_n sit_v many_o year_n b._n of_o ephesus_n and_o be_v the_o metropolitan_a of_o all_o asia_n in_o which_o we_o suppose_v the_o remonstrant_a will_v allow_v his_o reader_n a_o liberty_n of_o believe_v he_o and_o allow_v we_o a_o liberty_n to_o tell_v he_o that_o d_o whitaker_n say_v patres_fw-la cum_fw-la jacobum_fw-la episcopum_fw-la vocant_fw-la aut_fw-la etiam_fw-la petrum_fw-la non_fw-la propriè_fw-la sumunt_fw-la episcopi_fw-la nomen_fw-la 15._o sed_fw-la vocant_fw-la eos_fw-la episcopos_fw-la illarum_fw-la ecclesiarum_fw-la in_o quibus_fw-la aliquamdin_fw-mi commorati_fw-la sunt_fw-la and_o in_o the_o same_o place_n et_fw-la si_fw-la propriè_fw-la de_fw-fr episcopo_fw-la loquatur_fw-la absurdum_fw-la est_fw-la apostolos_fw-la suisse_fw-la episcopos_fw-la nam_fw-la qui_fw-la propriè_fw-la episcopus_fw-la est_fw-la be_v apostolous_a non_fw-la potest_fw-la esse_fw-la quia_fw-la episcopus_fw-la est_fw-la unius_fw-la tantum_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la at_o apostoli_fw-la plurium_fw-la ecclesiarum_fw-la fundatores_fw-la &_o inspectores_fw-la erant_fw-la and_o again_o hoc_fw-la enim_fw-la non_fw-la mulâ—um_fw-la distat_fw-la ab_fw-la insaniâ_fw-la dicere_fw-la petrum_fw-la fuisse_fw-la propriè_fw-la episcopum_fw-la out_o reliquos_fw-la apostolos_fw-la now_o we_o return_v to_o our_o remonstrant_n our_o answer_n to_o his_o objection_n from_o the_o angel_n be_v that_o the_o word_n angel_n be_v to_o be_v take_v collective_o not_o individual_o which_o he_o call_v pro_fw-la more_fw-it svo_fw-la a_o shift_n and_o a_o conceit_n which_o no_o wise_a man_n can_v ever_o believe_v 104._o and_o yet_o he_o can_v not_o but_o take_v notice_n that_o we_o allege_v austin_n gregory_n fulke_n perkins_n fox_n brightman_n mede_n and_o divers_a other_o for_o this_o interpretation_n which_o will_v make_v the_o world_n to_o accuse_v he_o for_o want_n of_o wisdom_n for_o call_v the_o wisdom_n of_o such_o man_n into_o question_n before_o he_o address_v himself_o to_o answer_v our_o reason_n he_o propound_v two_o queres_fw-la 1._o if_o the_o interest_n be_v common_a and_o equal_o appertain_v to_o all_o why_o shall_v one_o be_v single_v out_o above_o the_o rest_n 104._o a_o very_a dull_a question_n which_o be_v indeed_o a_o very_a beg_n of_o the_o cause_n for_o the_o question_n in_o agitation_n be_v whether_o when_o christ_n write_v to_o the_o 7._o angel_n he_o mean_v to_o single_a out_o 7._o individual_a person_n above_o the_o rest_n or_o else_o write_v to_o the_o 7._o angel_n collective_o mean_v all_o the_o angel_n that_o be_v in_o all_o the_o church_n the_o second_o question_n be_v as_o dull_a as_o the_o first_o if_o you_o will_v yield_v the_o person_n to_o be_v such_o as_o have_v more_o than_o other_o a_o right_a in_o the_o administration_n of_o all_o it_o be_v that_o weseeke_v for_o but_o he_o know_v we_o will_v not_o yield_v it_o and_o therefore_o we_o may_v just_o use_v his_o own_o word_n that_o those_o question_n be_v tedious_a and_o may_v well_o have_v be_v spare_v and_o so_o also_o the_o instance_n of_o a_o letter_n endorse_v from_o the_o lord_n of_o the_o council_n to_o the_o bishop_n of_o durham_n concern_v some_o affair_n of_o the_o whole_a clergy_n of_o his_o diocese_n no_o man_n will_v deny_v but_o that_o the_o bishop_n of_o durham_n be_v a_o individual_a bishop_n this_o example_n suppose_v the_o angel_n about_o who_o we_o dispute_v to_o be_v mean_v individual_o which_o you_o know_v be_v the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d between_o you_o and_o we_o quid_fw-la haec_fw-la ad_fw-la rhombum_fw-la we_o will_v give_v you_o instance_n more_o suitable_a to_o the_o purpose_n suppose_v one_o in_o christ_n time_n or_o his_o apostle_n have_v endorse_v a_o letter_n to_o the_o chiefe-priest_n concern_v the_o affair_n of_o the_o sanhedrim_n and_o another_o letter_n to_o the_o chief_a ruler_n of_o the_o synagogue_n concern_v the_o affair_n of_o the_o synagogue_n and_o another_o letter_n to_o the_o captain_n of_o the_o temple_n concern_v the_o business_n of_o the_o temple_n can_v any_o man_n imagine_v but_o that_o these_o indorsment_n must_v necessary_o be_v understand_v collective_o consider_v there_o be_v more_o chiefe-priest_n than_o one_o in_o jerusalem_n luke_n 22._o 4._o and_o more_o chief_a ruler_n of_o the_o synagogue_n than_o one_o math._n 19_o 18._o compare_v with_o act_n 18._o 8._o 17._o and_o more_o captain_n of_o the_o temple_n than_o one_o act_v 4_o 1._o compare_v with_o luke_n the_o â—2_n 4._o and_o so_o also_o semblable_o more_o angel_n and_o minister_n in_o the_o seven_o church_n then_o seven_o but_o stay_v sir_n we_o hope_v you_o be_v not_o of_o opinion_n that_o any_o of_o your_o asian_a bishop_n have_v as_o much_o spiritual_a and_o temporal_a power_n as_o the_o lord_n bishop_n of_o salisbury_n and_o the_o lord_n bishop_n and_o palatine_n of_o durham_n cave_fw-la dixeris_fw-la at_o last_o you_o come_v to_o our_o proof_n which_o you_o scoff_o call_v invincible_a you_o shall_v have_v do_v better_a to_o have_v call_v they_o irrefragable_a like_o your_o good_a friend_n irrefragable_a proposition_n our_o first_o argument_n be_v draw_v from_o the_o epistle_n to_o thyatira_n revel_v 2._o 24._o but_o i_o say_v unto_o you_o in_o the_o plural_a number_n not_o unto_o thou_o in_o the_o singular_a and_o unto_o the_o rest_n in_o thyatira_n here_o be_v a_o plain_a distinction_n between_o the_o governor_n and_o the_o govern_v and_o the_o governor_n in_o the_o plural_a number_n which_o apparent_o prove_v that_o the_o angel_n be_v collective_a the_o remonstrant_a have_v no_o way_n to_o put_v this_o off_o 105._o but_o by_o a_o pitiful_a shift_n to_o use_v his_o own_o word_n he_o tell_v we_o he_o have_v find_v a_o better_a copy_n which_o be_v a_o very_a unhappy_a and_o unbecoming_a expression_n apt_a to_o make_v ignorant_a people_n doubt_v of_o the_o original_a text_n and_o so_o in_o time_n rather_o to_o deny_v the_o divinity_n of_o the_o scripture_n then_o of_o episcopacy_n but_o this_o better_a copy_n be_v but_o late_o search_v into_o for_o we_o find_v that_o bishop_n hall_n in_o his_o episcopacy_n by_o divine_a right_n reads_z it_o as_o we_o do_v but_o i_o say_v unto_o you_o and_o the_o rest_n in_o thyatira_n but_o what_o be_v this_o better_a copy_n it_o be_v a_o manuscript_n write_v by_o the_o hand_n of_o teela_n which_o if_o it_o be_v no_o true_a than_o itinerarium_fw-la pauli_n &_o teclae_n it_o will_v have_v little_a credit_n among_o the_o learned_a but_o that_o which_o make_v you_o to_o magnify_v it_o the_o more_o be_v that_o doughty_a argument_n which_o it_o help_v you_o to_o against_o we_o concern_v the_o same_o church_n of_o â—hyatira_fw-la in_o which_o the_o angel_n be_v charge_v for_o suffer_v that_o woman_n jezabel_n and_o now_o you_o say_v in_o that_o memorable_a copy_n of_o tecla_n it_o be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o you_o interpret_v thy_o wife_n iczebel_n and_o just_o as_o archimedes_n you_o come_v with_o a_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o call_v upon_o we_o to_o blush_v for_o shame_n what_o say_v you_o in_o a_o different_a character_n shall_v we_o think_v she_o be_v wife_n to_o the_o whole_a company_n or_o to_o one_o bishop_n alone_o 106._o but_o for_o our_o part_n we_o do_v think_v you_o have_v more_o cause_n to_o blush_v for_o make_v such_o a_o translation_n copy_n and_o rather_o than_o you_o will_v not_o prove_v the_o angel_n of_o thyatira_n to_o be_v a_o individual_a bishop_n you_o will_v un-angell_n he_o and_o make_v he_o a_o other_o ahab_n to_o marry_v a_o curse_a jezebel_n we_o wonder_v that_o never_o any_o protestant_n writer_n have_v the_o wit_n to_o bring_v this_o text_n against_o the_o papist_n to_o prove_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o priest_n marriage_n no_o not_o doctor_n hall_n himself_o in_o his_o defence_n of_o the_o marry_a clergy_n give_v we_o leave_v here_o to_o use_v your_o own_o word_n page_n 108._o forbear_v reader_n if_o you_o can_v to_o smile_v at_o this_o curious_a subtlety_n what_o cabalism_n have_v we_o here_o judge_v reader_n what_o to_o expect_v of_o so_o deep_a speculation_n and_o also_o to_o repeat_v what_o you_o say_v page_z 110._o if_o you_o please_v yourself_o with_o this_o new_a subtlety_n it_o be_v well_o from_o we_o you_o have_v no_o cause_n to_o expect_v a_o answer_n it_o can_v neither_o draw_v our_o assent_n nor_o merit_v our_o confutation_n we_o believe_v it_o to_o be_v as_o true_a that_o jezebel_n be_v the_o wife_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o thyatira_n as_o that_o tecla_n be_v the_o wife_n of_o paul_n but_o to_o return_v to_o the_o former_a text_n let_v any_o judicious_a reader_n survey_v the_o latter_a part_n of_o the_o 23._o verse_n which_o be_v the_o verse_n before_o that_o out_o of_o which_o we_o bring_v our_o reason_n there_o he_o shall_v find_v christ_n speak_v to_o the_o church_n of_o thyatira_n say_v and_o i_o will_v give_v to_o every_o one_o of_o you_o in_o the_o plural_a number_n and_o then_o follow_v but_o i_o say_v unto_o you_o and_o the_o rest_n in_o
lest_o you_o shall_v think_v we_o flout_v your_o modesty_n with_o a_o unbeseeming_a frump_n which_o whither_o our_o answer_n be_v guilty_a of_o as_o you_o here_o charge_v we_o let_v the_o reader_n compare_v the_o 28_o and_o 29_o page_n of_o your_o remonstrance_n and_o our_o answer_n to_o those_o page_n and_o determine_v the_o second_o objection_n be_v from_o that_o imputation_n which_o this_o truth_n cast_v upon_o all_o reform_a church_n which_o want_v this_o government_n this_o the_o remonstrant_a must_v needs_o endeavour_v to_o satisfy_v that_o he_o may_v decline_v the_o envy_n that_o attend_v this_o opinion_n but_o what_o need_v the_o remonstrant_a fear_n this_o envy_n alas_o the_o reform_a church_n be_v but_o a_o poor_a handful_n rumpantur_fw-la ilia_fw-la need_v the_o remonstrant_a care_n yet_o be_v it_o neither_o his_o large_a protestation_n of_o his_o honourable_a esteem_n of_o those_o sister_n church_n nor_o his_o solicitous_a clear_n himself_o from_o the_o scandalous_a censure_n and_o disgraceful_a term_n cast_v upon_o they_o by_o other_o under_o who_o colour_n he_o now_o militares_fw-la that_o will_v divert_v this_o envy_n unless_o he_o either_o desert_n his_o opinion_n or_o make_v a_o more_o just_a defence_n than_o he_o have_v yet_o do_v 132._o the_o defence_n be_v that_o from_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o di._n right_a of_o episc._n no_o such_o consequence_n can_v be_v draw_v as_o that_o those_o church_n that_o want_v bishop_n be_v no_o church_n episcopacy_n though_o reckon_v among_o matter_n essential_a to_o the_o church_n yet_o be_v not_o of_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o this_o be_v no_o contradiction_n neither_o if_o you_o will_v have_v avoid_v the_o contradiction_n you_o shall_v have_v express_v yourself_o more_o distinct_o know_v that_o thing_n essential_a be_v of_o two_o sort_n either_o such_o as_o be_v essential_a constitutiuè_n or_o such_o as_o be_v essential_a consecutiuè_fw-fr you_o have_v do_v well_o here_o have_v you_o declare_v whether_o you_o count_v episcopacy_n essential_a to_o a_o church_n constitutive_a or_o consecutiué_fw-fr if_o constitutiuè_fw-la than_o it_o be_v necessary_a to_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n and_o it_o must_v follow_v where_o there_o be_v no_o bishop_n there_o can_v be_v no_o church_n if_o essential_a only_a consecutiuè_n we_o will_v be_v glad_a to_o learn_v how_o those_o officer_n which_o by_o divine_a institution_n have_v demandate_v to_o they_o peculiar_o a_o power_n of_o ordain_v all_o other_o officer_n in_o the_o church_n without_o which_o the_o church_n itself_o can_v be_v constitute_v and_o such_o a_o power_n as_o that_o those_o officer_n can_v be_v ordain_v without_o their_o hand_n shall_v not_o be_v essential_a to_o the_o constitution_n of_o a_o church_n or_o tend_v only_o to_o the_o well_o be_v not_o to_o the_o be_v of_o it_o either_o you_o must_v disclaim_v your_o own_o proposition_n or_o own_o this_o inference_n and_o not_o think_v to_o put_v it_o off_o with_o tell_v your_o reader_n it_o be_v enough_o for_o our_o friend_n to_o hold_v discipline_n of_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n 133._o you_o dare_v not_o be_v so_o zealous_a if_o heat_n in_o a_o episcopal_a cause_n may_v be_v call_v zeal_n you_o dare_v be_v as_o zealous_a as_o any_o man_n we_o know_v your_o friend_n we_o be_v sure_o be_v as_o zealous_a in_o the_o cause_n of_o their_o episcopacy_n as_o any_o of_o we_o have_v be_v in_o the_o defence_n of_o discipline_n do_v ever_o any_o of_o our_o friend_n in_o their_o zeal_n rise_v high_a than_o to_o frame_v a_o oath_n whereby_o to_o bind_v all_o man_n to_o maintain_v their_o discipline_n you_o know_v some_o of_o you_o have_v do_v as_o much_o but_o they_o we_o know_v you_o will_v leave_v to_o their_o own_o defence_n as_o you_o do_v your_o learned_a bishop_n of_o norwich_n 134._o now_o he_o be_v dead_a it_o be_v work_n enough_o for_o you_o to_o defend_v yourself_o and_o give_v satisfaction_n to_o the_o question_n propound_v first_o we_o demand_v the_o reason_n why_o popish_a priest_n convert_v to_o our_o religion_n be_v admit_v without_o new_a ordination_n when_o some_o of_o our_o brethren_n fly_v in_o queen_n mary_n time_n and_o have_v receive_v ordination_n in_o the_o reform_a church_n be_v urge_v at_o their_o return_n to_o receive_v it_o again_o from_o our_o bishop_n this_o shameless_a and_o partial_a practice_n of_o our_o prelate_n he_o can_v not_o deny_v but_o frame_v two_o such_o answer_n of_o which_o the_o second_o confute_v the_o first_o and_o neither_o second_o nor_o first_o justify_v their_o practice_n in_o the_o first_o he_o deny_v a_o capability_n of_o admittance_n by_o our_o law_n and_o yet_o in_o his_o second_o he_o confess_v many_o to_o be_v admit_v without_o any_o legal_a exception_n which_o how_o well_o they_o consist_v let_v the_o reader_n judge_n the_o second_o question_n be_v whether_o that_o office_n which_o by_o divine_a right_n have_v sole_a power_n of_o ordination_n and_o rule_v of_o all_o other_o officer_n in_o the_o church_n belong_v not_o to_o the_o be_v but_o only_o to_o the_o glory_n and_o perfection_n of_o a_o church_n the_o remonstrant_a be_v so_o angry_a at_o this_o question_n that_o before_o he_o can_v find_v leisure_n to_o answer_v it_o he_o must_v needs_o give_v a_o little_a vent_n to_o his_o choler_n can_v we_o tell_v what_o these_o man_n will_v have_v say_v he_o have_v they_o a_o mind_n to_o go_v beyond_o we_o in_o assert_v that_o necessity_n and_o essential_a use_n of_o episcopacy_n which_o we_o dare_v not_o avow_v what_o be_v that_o which_o you_o dare_v not_o avow_v be_v it_o that_o episcopacy_n have_v sole_a power_n of_o ordain_v and_o rule_v all_o other_o officer_n in_o the_o church_n but_o this_o we_o be_v sure_a you_o will_v avow_v that_o imposition_n of_o hand_n in_o ordination_n and_o confirmation_n have_v ever_o be_v hold_v so_o intrinsical_v to_o episcopacy_n that_o i_o will_v fain_o see_v where_o it_o can_v be_v show_v that_o any_o extremity_n of_o necessity_n be_v by_o the_o catholic_a church_n of_o christ_n ever_o yet_o acknowledge_v for_o a_o warrant_v sufficient_a to_o diffuse_v they_o into_o other_o hand_n 91._o be_v not_o this_o to_o say_v that_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o ordain_v officer_n be_v in_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o bishop_n and_o dare_v not_o we_o avow_v this_o now_o bless_a be_v they_o that_o have_v take_v down_o your_o confidence_n and_o where_o you_o be_v witty_a by_o the_o way_n 135._o you_o tell_v we_o we_o still_o talk_v of_o sole_a ordination_n and_o sole_a jurisdiction_n we_o may_v if_o we_o please_v keep_v that_o pair_n of_o sole_n for_o our_o next_o shoe_n good_a sir_n we_o thank_v you_o for_o your_o liberality_n but_o we_o doubt_v you_o either_o part_n with_o they_o out_o of_o fear_n you_o shall_v no_o long_o keep_v they_o or_o they_o will_v prove_v no_o long_o worth_n the_o keep_n but_o consider_v one_o thing_n we_o beseech_v you_o if_o you_o make_v this_o donation_n not_o only_o in_o your_o own_o name_n but_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o whole_a episcopal_a order_n you_o and_o they_o may_v turn_v fratres_n mendicantes_fw-la and_o go_v bare_a foot_n if_o you_o part_v with_o these_o pair_n of_o sole_n and_o what_o will_v become_v of_o your_o quid_fw-la facit_fw-la episcopus_fw-la quod_fw-la non_fw-la facit_fw-la presbyter_n exceptâ_fw-la ordinatione_fw-la you_o do_v not_o contend_v say_v you_o for_o such_o a_o height_n of_o propriety_n etc._n etc._n that_o in_o what_o case_n soever_o of_o extremity_n and_o irresistible_a necessity_n this_o shall_v be_v do_v only_o by_o episcopal_a hand_n you_o do_v not_o it_o be_v well_o you_o do_v not_o but_o do_v you_o never_o mean_v to_o affirm_v it_o none_o of_o you_o consider_v we_o beseech_v that_o forecited_a place_n episcopacy_n divine_a right_n part_n 2._o pag._n 91._o weigh_v the_o word_n and_o then_o speak_v and_o tell_v the_o author_n your_o judgement_n our_o three_o question_n be_v there_o be_v in_o this_o man_n thought_n the_o same_o jus_o divinum_fw-la for_o bishop_n that_o there_o be_v for_o pastor_n and_o elder_n whether_o if_o those_o reform_a church_n want_v pastor_n &_o elder_n too_o they_o shall_v want_v nothing_o of_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n but_o only_o of_o the_o glory_n and_o perfection_n of_o it_o the_o answer_n say_v he_o be_v ready_a which_o be_v indeed_o no_o answer_n it_o be_v in_o sum_n but_o this_o that_o it_o will_v be_v better_o with_o they_o if_o they_o have_v bishop_n too_o but_o how_o it_o will_v be_v if_o they_o want_v bishop_n and_o pastor_n and_o elder_n too_o of_o that_o he_o say_v nothing_o the_o remonstrant_a have_v presume_v to_o know_v so_o much_o of_o the_o mind_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n as_o to_o aver_v that_o if_o they_o may_v have_v their_o option_n they_o will_v glad_o embrace_v episcopal_a government_n 136._o a_o foul_a imputation_n say_v the_o remonstrant_a
may_v be_v settle_v in_o the_o same_o these_o dissension_n be_v not_o about_o seat_n or_o rate_n but_o a_o contention_n between_o silvanus_n the_o bishop_n and_o nundinarius_n the_o deacon_n in_o a_o matter_n of_o a_o high_a nature_n too_o high_a for_o our_o church_n warden_n faelicis_fw-la or_o vestryman_n to_o meddle_v in_o the_o bishop_n be_v accuse_v that_o he_o be_v traditor_n &_o fur_n rerum_fw-la pauperum_fw-la do_v ever_o churchwarden_n or_o vestry_n man_n among_o we_o hear_v inquire_v judge_n compose_v such_o difference_n as_o these_o be_v what_o shall_v john_n a_o nokes_n and_o john_n a_o style_n senior_n and_o smug_n the_o smith_n meddle_v with_o a_o business_n of_o bishop_n say_v episcopacy_n by_o divine_a right_n part_n 3._o pag._n 32._o but_o how_o do_v he_o prove_v they_o be_v but_o as_o our_o churchwarden_n or_o vestryman_n first_o because_o deacon_n be_v name_v before_o these_o senior_n where_o ever_o they_o be_v mention_v second_o because_o optatus_n reckon_v up_o quatuor_fw-la genera_fw-la capitum_fw-la mention_n not_o elder_n 147._o for_o the_o first_o though_o the_o order_n of_o reckon_v they_o be_v not_o so_o much_o to_o be_v insist_v upon_o yet_o we_o can_v tell_v you_o if_o here_o your_o confidence_n have_v not_o be_v great_a than_o your_o consideration_n that_o you_o may_v have_v observe_v that_o in_o some_o place_n they_o be_v mention_v not_o only_o before_o deacon_n but_o the_o whole_a clergy_n for_o so_o gregory_n letter_n cite_v by_o we_o tabellarium_fw-la cum_fw-la consensu_fw-la seniorum_fw-la &_o cleri_fw-la memineris_fw-la ordinandum_fw-la be_v not_o senior_n here_o mention_v before_o the_o clergy_n his_o second_o proof_n that_o these_o elder_n be_v no_o better_o then_o mere_a churchmarden_n and_o vestry_n man_n be_v because_o optatus_n mention_v four_o sort_n of_o man_n in_o the_o church_n mention_n not_o these_o elder_n but_o be_v this_o the_o man_n that_o have_v with_o such_o height_n of_o scorn_n vilify_v poor_a negative_a argument_n though_o draw_v from_o sacred_a scripture_n and_o will_v he_o now_o lie_v such_o weight_n upon_o a_o negative_a argument_n sure_o if_o all_o the_o truth_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a time_n be_v bind_v up_o in_o one_o optatus_n as_o all_o divine_a truth_n be_v lodge_v in_o the_o sacred_a volume_n of_o the_o scripture_n the_o remonstrant_a may_v have_v make_v much_o of_o his_o negative_a argument_n yet_o he_o scorn_v to_o hear_v we_o reason_v that_o because_o we_o do_v not_o read_v that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n do_v by_o the_o apostle_n appoint_v bishop_n in_o remedium_fw-la schismatis_fw-la therefore_o we_o can_v believe_v bishop_n be_v of_o divine_a or_o apostolical_a institution_n but_o of_o humane_a away_o say_v he_o with_o this_o poor_a negative_a argument_n and_o because_o the_o apostle_n ephesian_n the_o four_o reckon_v the_o officer_n who_o christ_n have_v give_v and_o gift_v for_o the_o edification_n of_o his_o church_n reckon_v up_o only_a apostle_n prophet_n evangelist_n pastor_n &_o teacher_n if_o we_o shall_v conclude_v ergo_fw-la there_o be_v no_o bishop_n the_o remonstrant_a will_v cry_v out_o again_o away_o with_o these_o negative_a argument_n yet_o such_o a_o argument_n from_o scripture_n may_v be_v valid_a though_o from_o no_o other_o authority_n as_o for_o optatus_n first_o though_o in_o these_o place_n he_o mention_n not_o elder_n yet_o that_o other_o place_n which_o we_o bring_v out_o of_o the_o same_o author_n do_v which_o the_o learned_a antiquary_n albaspinaeus_n though_o a_o papist_n with_o we_o acknowledge_v second_o these_o place_n produce_v by_o the_o remonstrant_a cross_a one_o another_o as_o much_o as_o they_o cross_v we_o for_o ministri_fw-la be_v leave_v out_o in_o one_o as_o well_o as_o seniores_fw-la in_o both_o three_o these_o seniores_fw-la be_v include_v in_o turba_fw-la fidelium_fw-la as_o the_o apostle_n rom._n 10._o 14._o comprehend_v all_o the_o church_n under_o these_o two_o hearer_n and_o teacher_n and_o so_o again_o heb._n 13._o 24._o ruler_n and_o saint_n yet_o the_o remonstrant_a be_v resolve_v to_o hold_v the_o conclusion_n elder_n in_o a_o rank_n above_o deacon_n in_o a_o settle_a power_n of_o government_n with_o the_o pastor_n 147._o shall_v be_v damn_v by_o he_o for_o a_o new_a and_o unjustifiable_a opinion_n yet_o this_o be_v the_o man_n that_o will_v by_o no_o mean_n be_v think_v to_o condemn_v the_o reform_a church_n though_o he_o fall_v as_o unhappy_o near_o the_o very_a word_n of_o their_o profess_a enemy_n the_o netherlands_n remonstants_n as_o ever_o we_o do_v the_o word_n of_o aerius_n quod_fw-la attinet_fw-la praxin_n antiquitatis_fw-la ex_fw-la â—â_fw-la videlicet_fw-la id_fw-la demonstrari_fw-la posse_fw-la idoneis_fw-la argumentis_fw-la ut_fw-la censor_n asserit_fw-la audaciae_fw-la &_o temeritatis_fw-la est_fw-la and_o again_o tota_n antiquitatis_fw-la praxis_fw-la ei_fw-la repugnat_fw-la but_o oh_o that_o our_o remonstrant_n will_v once_o learn_v to_o take_v the_o counsel_n he_o give_v and_o he_o that_o advise_v we_o to_o give_v glory_n to_o god_n in_o yield_v to_o undoubted_a and_o clear_a truth_n will_v do_v so_o himself_o for_o if_o it_o be_v not_o more_o clear_a that_o there_o be_v elder_n ancient_o in_o the_o church_n then_o that_o there_o be_v none_o and_o that_o these_o elder_n be_v not_o civil_a alderman_n but_o ecclesiastical_a officer_n not_o mere_a churchwarden_n and_o vestry_n man_n busy_v about_o inferior_a thing_n of_o seat_n and_o rate_n but_o employ_v in_o matter_n of_o high_a nature_n let_v the_o remonstrant_fw-la never_o renounce_v episcopacy_n but_o if_o it_o be_v let_v he_o take_v heed_n he_o do_v not_o renounce_v his_o word_n which_o he_o utter_v pag._n 147._o i_o do_v here_o solemn_o profess_v that_o if_o any_o one_o such_o instance_n can_v be_v bring_v i_o will_v renounce_v episcopacy_n for_o ever_o sect_n xvi_o xvii_o xviii_o the_o rest_n of_o our_o answer_n you_o say_v be_v but_o a_o mere_a declamation_n and_o good_a sir_n 148._o what_o be_v your_o whole_a remonstrance_n but_o a_o declamation_n and_o what_o be_v your_o defence_n but_o a_o satire_n but_o we_o be_v worthy_a of_o no_o other_o answer_n than_o contempt_n and_o silence_n you_o be_v very_o dextrous_a and_o happy_a in_o those_o kind_n of_o answer_n your_o whole_a defence_n be_v full_a of_o they_o it_o be_v true_a you_o say_v the_o religious_a bishop_n of_o all_o time_n have_v strong_o uphold_v the_o truth_n of_o god_n against_o satan_n and_o against_o his_o antichrist_n and_o it_o be_v as_o true_a that_o we_o tell_v you_o that_o other_o have_v uphold_v the_o truth_n as_o strong_o as_o bishop_n ever_o do_v yea_o &_o at_o sometime_o when_o there_o be_v never_o a_o bishop_n in_o the_o world_n to_o appear_v for_o the_o truth_n and_o therefore_o never_o impropriate_a all_o the_o glory_n to_o episcopacy_n it_o be_v also_o true_a that_o we_o tell_v you_o that_o some_o irreligious_a bishop_n have_v uphold_v satan_n and_o his_o antichrist_n against_o the_o truth_n of_o god_n and_o what_o can_v you_o say_v to_o this_o what_o be_v this_o to_o their_o call_n sir_n their_o uphold_v antichrist_n make_v as_o much_o against_o their_o call_n as_o their_o uphold_v the_o truth_n make_v for_o their_o call_n if_o you_o fetch_v a_o argument_n from_o the_o one_o for_o their_o call_n we_o may_v as_o logical_o fetch_v a_o argument_n from_o the_o other_o against_o their_o call_n with_o as_o much_o conclude_a strength_n but_o you_o can_v tell_v we_o of_o presbyter_n wicked_a and_o irreligious_a shall_v the_o function_n itself_o therefore_o suffer_v like_a enough_o and_o we_o can_v tell_v you_o that_o they_o find_v more_o countenance_n from_o bishop_n then_o the_o painfull_a minister_n but_o if_o presbyter_n shall_v be_v as_o general_o corrupt_v as_o bishop_n now_o be_v have_v as_o much_o strength_n to_o suppress_v the_o gospel_n and_o promote_v popery_n as_o the_o bishop_n by_o their_o supreme_a power_n have_v if_o they_o can_v bring_v no_o more_o evidence_n of_o divine_a institution_n than_o bishop_n can_v and_o be_v of_o no_o more_o necessity_n to_o the_o church_n than_o bishop_n be_v let_v the_o function_n suffer_v we_o tell_v you_o what_o a_o unpreach_a bishop_n say_v of_o a_o preach_a bishop_n this_o say_v you_o be_v our_o slander_n not_o their_o just_a epithet_n and_o challenge_v we_o to_o show_v any_o unpreach_a bishop_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n this_o day_n sir_n pardon_v we_o if_o we_o tell_v you_o that_o you_o put_v we_o in_o mind_n of_o a_o poor_a sir_n john_n that_o because_o he_o have_v make_v one_o sermon_n in_o 40._o year_n will_v needs_o be_v count_v a_o preach_a minister_n if_o you_o speak_v of_o preach_v after_o that_o rate_n than_o indeed_o you_o may_v call_v all_o the_o bishop_n in_o england_n preach_v bishop_n but_o the_o people_n of_o england_n can_v so_o well_o tell_v who_o deserve_v the_o name_n of_o a_o preach_a bishop_n that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o preach_n of_o a_o
which_o the_o remonstrant_a direct_o do_v not_o deny_v only_o bid_v we_o lay_v our_o hand_n upon_o our_o heart_n 151._o and_o consider_v whether_o our_o foment_v of_o so_o unjust_a and_o deep_a dislike_n of_o lawful_a government_n have_v not_o be_v too_o much_o guilty_a of_o those_o woeful_a breach_n sir_n we_o have_v consider_v it_o and_o can_v before_o the_o great_a heart-searching_a god_n plead_v not_o guilty_a the_o dislike_n of_o present_a church_n government_n which_o be_v own_o exorbitancy_n have_v cause_v we_o have_v not_o foment_v but_o have_v smother_v our_o thought_n and_o grief_n even_o until_o this_o present_a wherein_o the_o gracious_a hand_n of_o god_n have_v incline_v the_o heart_n of_o our_o gracious_a sovereign_n to_o call_v a_o parliament_n that_o he_o and_o they_o may_v together_o consult_v of_o the_o pressure_n and_o grievance_n of_o his_o people_n and_o conclude_v their_o removal_n and_o now_o we_o can_v we_o dare_v not_o hold_v our_o peace_n but_o declare_v our_o judgement_n that_o if_o it_o shall_v seem_v good_a to_o our_o dread_a sovereign_n and_o this_o honourable_a parliament_n upon_o the_o many_o complaint_n bring_v in_o against_o bishop_n and_o their_o hierarchicall_a government_n to_o remove_v the_o hierarchy_n this_o act_n of_o state_n may_v appear_v to_o all_o to_o be_v far_o from_o sin_n this_o not_o be_v a_o government_n appoint_v by_o christ_n nor_o stamp_v with_o a_o ius_n divinum_fw-la though_o some_o will_v make_v that_o their_o protection_n as_o one_o that_o love_v the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n 152._o which_o we_o you_o say_v be_v willing_a to_o trouble_v you_o ask_v after_o the_o bounder_n etc._n etc._n be_v you_o one_o that_o love_v the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n we_o pray_v of_o what_o church_n sure_o that_o church_n that_o be_v call_v prelatical_a and_o no_o other_o where_o of_o we_o give_v you_o the_o boundary_n and_o character_n which_o it_o seem_v please_v you_o not_o the_o bounder_n we_o show_v from_o your_o late_a canon_n which_o say_v you_o be_v too_o narrow_a let_v they_o see_v to_o that_o that_o first_o make_v they_o it_o be_v apparent_a that_o the_o canon_n make_v by_o archbishop_n bishop_n dean_n and_o archdeacon_n in_o their_o convocation_n be_v never_o consent_v to_o much_o less_o confirm_v by_o parliament_n and_o yet_o those_o be_v call_v the_o canon_n and_o constitution_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o therefore_o sure_a though_o we_o do_v not_o exclude_v bishop_n dean_n etc._n etc._n from_o be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n yet_o they_o have_v exclude_v all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o nation_n for_o distinction_n we_o bring_v bow_v to_o the_o east_n to_o altar_n etc._n etc._n now_o these_o say_v you_o be_v not_o fit_a distinction_n whereon_o to_o ground_v different_a church_n yes_o sir_n if_o it_o be_v true_a that_o some_o have_v hold_v 153._o that_o the_o outward_a form_n of_o worship_n and_o ceremony_n attend_v it_o be_v the_o character_n whereby_o one_o church_n be_v difference_v from_o another_o but_o especial_o when_o such_o as_o will_v not_o practice_v these_o shall_v be_v disclaim_v by_o such_o as_o do_v they_o as_o none_o of_o the_o son_n of_o the_o church_n when_o man_n shall_v be_v force_v to_o subscribe_v to_o the_o practice_n of_o these_o thing_n or_o else_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v admit_v either_o into_o live_n or_o cure_n as_o in_o the_o instance_a particular_n we_o have_v know_v it_o than_o they_o make_v a_o difference_n of_o church_n and_o who_o be_v the_o author_n of_o such_o difference_n but_o such_o as_o thus_o urge_v they_o next_o we_o bring_v their_o creed_n and_o instance_a in_o episcopacy_n by_o divine_a right_n he_o reply_v do_v ever_o man_n make_v this_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n judge_v you_o by_o what_o bishop_n hall_n say_v in_o his_o episcopacy_n by_o divine_a right_a part_n 2._o pag._n 47._o i_o be_o so_o confident_a of_o the_o divine_a institution_n of_o the_o majority_n of_o bishop_n above_o presbyter_n that_o i_o dare_v bold_o say_v there_o be_v weighty_a point_n of_o faith_n that_o have_v not_o so_o strong_a ground_n in_o scripture_n be_v this_o to_o make_v it_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n or_o no_o and_o if_o not_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n yet_o we_o be_v sure_a it_o be_v make_v a_o article_n of_o the_o church_n for_o whereas_o by_o the_o order_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n a_o man_n upon_o the_o admission_n to_o his_o ministry_n be_v to_o be_v examine_v upon_o no_o other_o article_n than_o the_o article_n of_o religion_n establish_v in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n we_o have_v know_v more_o than_o one_o who_o first_o question_n have_v be_v what_o do_v you_o think_v of_o episcopaice_n we_o add_v absolute_a &_o blind_a obedience_n to_o all_o command_n of_o the_o bishop_n &_o ordinary_n you_o bid_v we_o blush_v but_o alas_o sir_n we_o be_v not_o such_o stranger_n in_o england_n nor_o yourself_o neither_o we_o believe_v as_o not_o to_o know_v but_o that_o this_o have_v be_v the_o common_a doctrine_n and_o almost_o the_o sole_a doctrine_n preach_v by_o prelatical_a man_n these_o many_o year_n together_o and_o the_o blind_a the_o better_o this_o we_o have_v hear_v nor_o be_v it_o your_o limitation_n of_o the_o oath_n of_o canonical_a obedience_n in_o omnibus_fw-la licitis_fw-la &_o honestis_fw-la will_v help_v you_o when_o some_o in_o stead_n of_o that_o have_v put_v in_o in_o omnibus_fw-la editis_fw-la &_o edendis_fw-la we_o add_v election_n upon_o faith_n foresee_v the_o remonstrant_a cry_n what_o nothing_o but_o gross_a untruth_n 153._o be_v this_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o england_n have_v they_o not_o strong_o confute_v it_o yes_o sure_a some_o few_o have_v we_o know_v it_o and_o do_v not_o the_o remonstrant_n know_v that_o these_o few_o have_v be_v have_v in_o suspicion_n as_o no_o true_a friend_n of_o the_o church_n much_o less_o son_n of_o the_o church_n more_o puritanical_a than_o prelatical_a and_o we_o will_v none_o of_o they_o have_v 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