will_v have_v some_o force_n otherways_o it_o have_v none_o at_o all_o m._n s._n 3._o reason_n if_o they_o do_v not_o think_v their_o presbyterial_a church_n more_o holy_a than_o the_o congregationall_a they_o be_v far_o more_o guilty_a of_o schism_n than_o their_o brethren_n i._n e._n then_o independent_o for_o than_o they_o be_v at_o liberty_n in_o point_n of_o conscience_n to_o come_v over_o and_o join_v with_o they_o whereas_o the_o other_o be_v in_o band_n and_o fetter_n of_o conscience_n and_o can_v pass_v unto_o they_o their_o brethren_n will_v come_v to_o they_o but_o can_v they_o can_v come_v over_o unto_o these_o but_o will_v not_o it_o be_v the_o will_n and_o not_o the_o act_n that_o make_v schism_n and_o separation_n a._n s._n 1._o but_o if_o they_o think_v not_o their_o presbyterial_a church_n more_o holy_a all_o your_o argument_n be_v ridiculous_a 2._o and_o i_o must_v confess_v that_o m._n s._n with_o his_o faction_n be_v very_o slight_a who_o can_v make_v very_o few_o 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the_o member_n whereof_o have_v no_o more_o communion_n with_o church_n among_o we_o or_o among_o themselves_o than_o the_o monk_n of_o one_o convent_n with_o those_o of_o another_o convent_n m._n s._n 5._o you_o couple_v yourself_o with_o these_o popish_a convent_v imply_v that_o your_o presbyterian_o have_v their_o sovereign_a judicatory_a as_o they_o a._n s._n we_o have_v no_o supreme_a judicatory_a but_o that_o of_o the_o live_a god_n if_o we_o have_v superior_a and_o inferior_a judicatories_n and_o the_o papist_n also_o neither_o we_o nor_o they_o precise_o be_v to_o be_v blame_v in_o that_o but_o so_o far_o forth_o as_o they_o have_v the_o pope_n one_o man_n for_o supreme_a judge_n and_o head_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v proper_a to_o christ_n in_o that_o they_o prove_v that_o he_o be_v the_o antichrist_n and_o as_o it_o be_v great_a pride_n in_o they_o to_o make_v he_o with_o his_o consistory_n supreme_a judge_n over_o the_o universal_a church_n so_o be_v it_o a_o piece_n 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by_o his_o addition_n and_o confusion_n in_o make_v it_o hypotheticall_a whereas_o it_o be_v mere_o categoricall_a if_o he_o have_v desire_v to_o put_v it_o in_o form_n he_o need_v not_o but_o to_o have_v add_v or_o express_v the_o proposition_n which_o be_v only_o suppress_v in_o this_o manner_n they_o who_o have_v but_o one_o god_n one_o christ_n one_o lord_n and_o one_o spirit_n who_o be_v one_o body_n who_o have_v one_o faith_n and_o one_o baptism_n whereby_o they_o enter_v into_o the_o church_n shall_v have_v one_o communion_n whereby_o to_o be_v spiritual_o feed_v and_o one_o discipline_n to_o be_v rule_v by_o but_o we_o all_o i._n e._n presbyterian_o as_o you_o call_v we_o and_o independent_o we_o have_v but_o one_o god_n one_o christ_n one_o lord_n and_o one_o spirit_n etc._n etc._n ergo_fw-la we_o all_o i._n e._n presbyterian_o and_o independent_o shall_v have_v but_o one_o spiritual_a communion_n whereby_o to_o be_v spiritual_o feed_v and_o one_o discipline_n to_o be_v rule_v by_o and_o from_o this_o he_o infer_v very_o well_o ergo_fw-la the_o independent_o be_v not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v viz._n in_o their_o schism_n separation_n or_o non-communion_n m._n s._n grant_v all_o the_o argument_n and_o afterward_o distinguish_v the_o conclusion_n which_o be_v a_o odd_a manner_n of_o answer_v of_o argument_n and_o proper_a to_o his_o sect_n but_o we_o must_v take_v of_o ill_a paymaster_n what_o we_o may_v he_o say_v then_o 1._o my_o conclusion_n do_v not_o follow_v from_o my_o premise_n a._n s._n but_o the_o argument_n be_v in_o form_n if_o it_o follow_v not_o show_v i_o what_o fault_n there_o be_v in_o the_o form_n of_o it_o m._n s._n 2._o jeer_v the_o term_n of_o my_o argument_n in_o call_v they_o one_o one_o and_o one_o and_o my_o multiply_a unity_n and_o so_o jeer_v the_o holy_a ghost_n himself_o from_o who_o i_o have_v borrow_v they_o eph._n 4._o rom._n 12._o 1_o cor._n 12._o and_o 8._o 1_o tim._n 2.5_o i_o may_v have_v add_v more_o unity_n as_o that_o we_o shall_v with_o one_o mouth_n glorify_v god_n rom._n 5.6_o we_o be_v one_o bread_n 1_o cor._n 10.17_o we_o drink_v in_o one_o spirit_n vers_n 13._o we_o be_v all_o one_o in_o christ_n gal._n 3.28_o one_o lawgiver_n and_o judge_n jam._n 4.12_o christ_n pray_v that_o we_o may_v be_v all_o one_o anomgst_a ourselves_o and_o one_o in_o the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n john_n 17.22_o 23._o m._n s._n his_o first_o solution_n than_o be_v that_o we_o ought_v all_o to_o have_v one_o communion_n and_o discipline_n but_o not_o that_o that_o be_v of_o classic_a inspiration_n no_o more_o than_o that_o of_o papal_a or_o episcopal_a recommendation_n a._n s._n 1._o at_o least_o of_o this_o viz._n we_o shall_v have_v one_o communion_n and_o discipline_n it_o follow_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v no_o schism_n or_o toleration_n grant_v that_o may_v make_v a_o schism_n in_o the_o body_n and_o dissolve_v our_o
as_o a_o nurse_n of_o the_o church_n in_o compel_v they_o by_o the_o civil_a power_n to_o obey_v the_o church_n but_o in_o both_o these_o punishment_n viz._n spiritual_a and_o temporal_a it_o be_v not_o for_o the_o sinner_n to_o judge_v whether_o or_o no_o he_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v since_o he_o be_v a_o party_n can_v be_v judge_n in_o his_o own_o cause_n but_o it_o be_v the_o part_n of_o the_o ecclesiastical_a senate_n to_o judge_v whether_o he_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v in_o foro_fw-la ecclesiastico_fw-la and_o of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n to_o judge_v whether_o he_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v in_o foro_fw-la civili_fw-la in_o that_o whereof_o he_o be_v to_o judge_v to_o your_o 2._o answer_v i_o reply_v that_o by_o brownist_n independent_o anabaptist_n etc._n etc._n i_o mean_v not_o the_o name_n but_o the_o thing_n signify_v by_o such_o name_n a.s._n neither_o have_v the_o church_n of_o goda_n custom_n to_o be_v contentious_a 1_o cor._n 11.16_o this_o i_o bring_v to_o 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say_v that_o he_o have_v reply_v to_o m._n s._n his_o answer_n a.s._n we_o must_v not_o quit_v our_o mutual_a meeting_n as_o other_o do_v and_o as_o must_v be_v do_v in_o a_o public_a toleration_n heb._n 10.25_o m._n s._n we_o understand_v not_o your_o word_n a._n s._n but_o they_o be_v the_o apostle_n word_n 2._o and_o my_o argument_n may_v easy_o be_v form_v by_o any_o logician_n against_o toleration_n it_o will_v be_v thus_o what_o make_v we_o to_o quit_v our_o mutual_a meeting_n as_o other_o do_v be_v not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v but_o schism_n and_o heresy_n make_v we_o to_o quit_v our_o mutual_a meeting_n ergo_fw-la they_o be_v not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v m.s._n we_o do_v not_o know_v what_o quit_v of_o meeting_n there_o be_v like_a to_o be_v more_o under_o a_o public_a toleration_n then_o be_v for_o the_o present_a a.s._n so_o he_o seem_v to_o deny_v the_o minor_a but_o i_o prove_v it_o for_o in_o tolerate_v of_o schism_n we_o see_v that_o man_n be_v deceive_v by_o the_o schismatic_n do_v quit_v the_o meeting_n of_o the_o church_n to_o which_o before_o they_o be_v join_v and_o we_o see_v how_o the_o independent_o frequent_v not_o willing_o our_o church_n and_o will_v not_o all_o join_v with_o we_o in_o our_o meeting_n at_o the_o lord_n table_n neither_o believe_v i_o that_o any_o of_o the_o five_o apologetic_a minister_n have_v ever_o communicate_v in_o our_o assembly_n since_o this_o parliament_n a._n s._n 18._o because_o that_o m.s._n charge_v my_o 18._o reason_n with_o atheism_n i_o will_v put_v it_o in_o form_n that_o which_o per_fw-mi se_fw-mi giveth_z offence_n unto_o papist_n and_o other_o or_o that_o expose_v the_o protestant_a church_n unto_o the_o calumny_n of_o papist_n shall_v not_o be_v grant_v by_o we_o but_o the_o toleration_n of_o many_o sect_n do_v so_o ergo_fw-la it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v grant_v the_o major_n be_v certain_a for_o it_o be_v scandalum_fw-la datum_fw-la which_o all_o divine_n do_v condemn_v the_o minor_a i_o prove_v it_o for_o it_o give_v and_o the_o papist_n thereupon_o take_v too_o just_a a_o cause_n of_o scandal_n or_o offence_n and_o indeed_o it_o can_v but_o be_v a_o just_a subject_n of_o offence_n by_o to_o open_a to_o be_v reproach_v with_o such_o a_o innumerable_a number_n of_o sect_n to_o the_o rent_v of_o christ_n church_n in_o piece_n m._n s._n to_o this_o answer_v not_o but_o propound_v some_o question_n 1._o will_v you_o say_v he_o redeem_v yourself_o out_o of_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o papist_n calumny_n by_o symbolise_v with_o they_o a._n s._n i_o answer_v 1._o that_o it_o be_v no_o symbolise_n with_o papist_n if_o we_o tolerate_v not_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n for_o you_o have_v already_o confess_v that_o in_o your_o particular_a church_n you_o tolerate_v they_o not_o and_o yet_o you_o believe_v that_o your_o church_n symbolize_v no_o more_o with_o they_o then_o we_o 2._o it_o be_v a_o strange_a thing_n if_o my_o argument_n be_v atheological_a if_o it_o prove_v that_o atheist_n and_o such_o as_o deny_v the_o trinity_n and_o the_o incarnation_n of_o the_o son_n of_o god_n be_v not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v if_o such_o a_o argument_n be_v atheological_a in_o your_o judgement_n i_o be_o assure_v that_o all_o theologue_n will_v conceive_v better_o of_o it_o then_o of_o this_o your_o theological_a answer_n neither_o have_v i_o forget_v my_o 11._o reason_n for_o you_o symbolize_v with_o they_o in_o their_o popery_n and_o i_o in_o true_a theology_n viz._n in_o maintain_v the_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n with_o saint_n paul_n as_o you_o symbolize_v with_o sectary_n in_o maintain_v the_o rent_v of_o the_o church_n by_o schism_n if_o you_o have_v show_v any_o contradiction_n in_o my_o word_n i_o have_v either_o answer_v it_o or_o if_o i_o can_v not_o i_o shall_v have_v render_v myself_o to_o the_o truth_n but_o m._n s._n will_v not_o prove_v it_o but_o terrify_v i_o as_o a_o child_n with_o his_o great_a word_n it_o seem_v say_v he_o contradiction_n inconsistencye_n 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and_o demand_n be_v against_o all_o reason_n but_o i_o have_v sundry_a time_n prove_v it_o viz._n because_o by_o such_o a_o toleration_n of_o independency_n all_o sort_n of_o heresy_n will_v creep_v into_o the_o church_n and_o it_o be_v most_o absurd_a that_o there_o shall_v be_v no_o ecclesiastical_a power_n to_o repress_v the_o heresy_n and_o abominable_a sin_n of_o seven_o or_o eight_o wicked_a fellow_n whereof_o a_o particular_a independent_a church_n may_v be_v compoe_v in_o case_n they_o fall_v into_o heresy_n or_o such_o abominable_a sin_n whereas_o m._n s._n say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o like_a that_o so_o very_o learned_a man_n etc._n etc._n such_o as_o be_v the_o 5._o apologist_n shall_v rise_v up_o to_o defend_v a_o opinion_n so_o contrary_a to_o all_o reason_n a._n
ecclesiastical_a person_n can_v preach_v or_o excommunicate_v neither_o can_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n or_o any_o other_o exercise_v such_o act_n or_o extrinsecall_v i._n e._n about_o the_o church_n but_o not_o in_o the_o church_n in_o quality_n of_o a_o church_n as_o when_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n make_v law_n concern_v the_o church_n in_o confirm_v or_o ratify_v her_o law_n in_o make_v they_o to_o be_v receive_v as_o well_o in_o the_o state_n as_o in_o the_o church_n so_o justinian_n declare_v that_o according_a to_o the_o evangelicall_n doctrine_n and_o apostolical_a discipline_n all_o man_n shall_v be_v call_v christian_n otherways_o that_o they_o shall_v be_v declare_v distract_v and_o infamous_a person_n and_o that_o they_o that_o be_v punish_v spiritual_o by_o the_o church_n shall_v afterward_o be_v punish_v civil_o by_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n as_o we_o may_v see_v in_o the_o first_o book_n of_o the_o codex_fw-la do_fw-mi de_fw-fr summa_fw-la trinitate_fw-la do_fw-mi de_fw-fr sacrosanctis_fw-la ecclesiis_fw-la do_fw-mi de_fw-fr episc_n &_o cler._n &_o orphanotroph_n and_o through_o all_o the_o first_o thirteen_o title_n of_o that_o book_n and_o elsewhere_o in_o the_o civil_a law_n but_o this_o power_n to_o judge_v command_n and_o punish_v be_v not_o ecclesiastical_a but_o civil_a chap._n ii_o the_o first_o conclusion_n about_o the_o intrinsical_a power_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n in_o the_o church_n this_o be_v presuppose_v i_o put_v my_o first_o conclusion_n thus_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n qua_fw-la talis_fw-la or_o under_o the_o notion_n of_o a_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v no_o intrinsical_a power_n in_o the_o church_n 1._o because_o the_o scripture_n which_o independent_o acknowledge_v for_o the_o only_a rule_n of_o church-government_n contain_v no_o such_o thing_n 2._o because_o his_o authority_n qua_fw-la talis_fw-la be_v not_o ecclesiastical_a but_o political_a or_o civil_a ergo_fw-la qua_fw-la talis_fw-la it_o be_v not_o intrinsical_v to_o the_o church_n 3._o because_o such_o must_v be_v his_o power_n or_o authority_n in_o the_o church_n as_o the_o act_n thereof_o at_o least_o in_o genere_fw-la morum_fw-la or_o moral_o but_o the_o act_n of_o his_o power_n as_o to_o punish_v refractorie_a person_n in_o a_o civil_a way_n by_o imprisonment_n pecuniary_a mulct_n etc._n etc._n be_v not_o intrinsical_v yea_o no_o way_n ecclesiastical_a ergo_fw-la no_o more_o be_v his_o power_n or_o authority_n 4._o because_o the_o authority_n that_o be_v intrinsical_v unto_o the_o church_n must_v be_v exercise_v by_o ecclesiastical_a person_n but_o so_o be_v not_o that_o of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n the_o minor_a be_v certain_a because_o it_o be_v only_o to_o be_v exercise_v by_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n or_o his_o officer_n and_o not_o by_o elder_n of_o the_o church_n as_o when_o he_o imprison_v any_o man_n for_o his_o disobedience_n unto_o the_o church_n or_o put_v apostate_n or_o some_o abominable_a heretic_n to_o death_n as_o servet_fw-la etc._n etc._n and_o it_o be_v a_o certain_a maxim_n that_o ecclesia_fw-la nescit_fw-la sanguinem_fw-la as_o may_v appear_v by_o sundry_a canon_n of_o the_o canon_n law_n ergo_fw-la the_o major_n be_v indubitable_a because_o the_o power_n and_o the_o exercise_n thereof_o belong_v unto_o the_o same_o sort_n of_o person_n 5._o because_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n himself_o qua_fw-la talis_fw-la be_v no_o ecclesiastical_a person_n or_o intrinsical_v unto_o the_o church_n since_o he_o may_v be_v a_o pagan_a how_o then_o can_v his_o authority_n be_v ecclesiastical_a or_o intrinsical_v unto_o the_o church_n since_o the_o authority_n of_o a_o person_n out_o of_o the_o church_n qua_fw-la talis_fw-la must_v be_v extrinsecall_v or_o out_o of_o the_o church_n 6._o because_o the_o object_n of_o the_o intrinsical_a power_n of_o the_o church_n be_v principal_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d thing_n that_o be_v spiritual_a or_o for_o spiritual_a end_n but_o so_o be_v not_o that_o of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n since_o oftentimes_o he_o know_v he_o not_o as_o when_o he_o be_v a_o turk_n or_o a_o pagan_a 7._o because_o this_o opinion_n confound_v the_o kingdom_n of_o this_o world_n with_o that_o of_o christ_n in_o grant_v unto_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n the_o intrinsical_a power_n of_o the_o church_n which_o christ_n only_o grant_v unto_o the_o minister_n thereof_o viz._n unto_o preacher_n teacher_n and_o rule_v elder_n but_o so_o shall_v it_o not_o be_v for_o christ_n distinguish_v these_o power_n when_o he_o command_v to_o give_v unto_o god_n that_o which_o be_v god_n and_o unto_o caesar_n that_o which_o be_v caesar_n mat._n 22.21_o 8._o because_o the_o immediate_a rule_n of_o the_o intrinsical_a power_n of_o the_o church_n be_v only_a god_n word_n formal_o by_o consequence_n or_o presupposition_n so_o be_v it_o not_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n which_o be_v immediate_o and_o formal_o rule_v by_o the_o law_n of_o the_o state_n ergo_fw-la the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n be_v not_o intrinsical_v unto_o the_o church_n 9_o the_o intrinsical_a power_n of_o the_o church_n be_v only_o ministerial_a no_o way_n despoticall_a imperial_a regal_a majestical_a or_o majesty_n so_o be_v not_o that_o of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n in_o take_v the_o word_n in_o a_o large_a signification_n as_o it_o be_v sometime_o for_o the_o supreme_a and_o subaltern_a magistrate_n for_o the_o power_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n at_o least_o in_o the_o supreme_a or_o prince_n be_v not_o ministerial_a but_o sometime_o despoticall_a or_o lordly_a sometime_o imperial_a sometime_o regal_a sometime_o aristocratical_a sometime_o democraticall_a and_o evermore_o majestical_a ergo_fw-la the_o assumption_n be_v certain_a so_o be_v the_o proposition_n for_o they_o who_o have_v this_o intrinsical_v power_n in_o the_o church_n be_v only_o christ_n minister_n and_o servant_n 10._o because_o as_o we_o say_v heretofore_o not_o only_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n sometime_o be_v not_o a_o member_n of_o the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n but_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o antichristian_a church_n yea_o sometime_o not_o so_o much_o as_o christen_v or_o a_o christian_a by_o name_n as_o the_o tuck_n the_o emperor_n the_o french_a king_n and_o some_o other_o who_o by_o maxim_n of_o state_n have_v make_v some_o edict_n in_o favour_n of_o true_a christian_n for_o the_o exercise_n of_o their_o religion_n but_o how_o shall_v he_o that_o be_v not_o in_o the_o church_n that_o be_v no_o true_a christian_n yea_o that_o be_v a_o antichristian_a christian_a yea_o not_o so_o much_o as_o a_o christian_a by_o name_n but_o a_o open_a enemy_n to_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n as_o herod_n nero_n dioclesian_n julian_n the_o apostate_n that_o be_v external_a unto_o the_o church_n have_v any_o intrinsical_v power_n in_o the_o church_n 11._o because_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v no_o intrinsical_a power_n either_o directive_n or_o executive_a in_o common_a trade_n as_o that_o of_o brewer_n shoemaker_n carter_n waterman_n etc._n etc._n who_o trade_n be_v within_o the_o reach_n of_o nature_n and_o which_o he_o direct_v only_o extrinsecally_a neither_o know_v the_o king_n how_o to_o brew_v how_o to_o make_v shoe_n etc._n etc._n neither_o can_v he_o brew_v or_o make_v shoe_n how_o much_o less_o than_o be_v it_o needful_a that_o he_o have_v any_o intern_a power_n either_o directive_n or_o executive_a in_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n which_o be_v altogether_o spiritual_a and_o supernatural_a above_o the_o reach_n of_o all_o natural_a prudence_n and_o quite_o out_o of_o the_o sphere_n of_o his_o activity_n 12._o by_o the_o same_o reason_n the_o civil_a magistrate_n shall_v have_v a_o internal_a power_n both_o directive_n and_o executive_a over_o all_o economical_a society_n under_o he_o viz._n over_o the_o husband_n and_o the_o wife_n the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n the_o master_n and_o the_o servant_n he_o may_v direct_v they_o in_o their_o duty_n and_o execute_v their_o charge_n intrinsical_o and_o so_o do_v the_o duty_n of_o a_o husband_n of_o a_o father_n and_o master_n in_o all_o thing_n in_o every_o man_n family_n which_o can_v not_o but_o be_v find_v very_o absurd_a impious_a and_o altogether_o intolerable_a heretofore_o the_o independent_o do_v as_o much_o as_o any_o man_n complain_v of_o such_o a_o absolute_a and_o independent_a power_n in_o the_o king_n how_o then_o be_v it_o that_o now_o they_o grant_v it_o 13._o if_o such_o a_o intrinsical_a power_n in_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n be_v a_o part_n of_o all_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n then_o the_o magistrate_n who_o have_v it_o not_o be_v not_o complete_a and_o perfect_a magistrate_n since_o they_o want_v one_o of_o the_o principal_a part_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n viz._n the_o intrinsical_n directive_n and_o executive_a power_n in_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n but_o the_o consequent_a be_v untrue_a yea_o criminal_a and_o traitorous_a for_o many_o pagan_n antichristian_n yea_o in_o concreto_fw-la and_o in_o sensu_fw-la composito_fw-la have_v a_o full_a
and_o perfect_a civil_a power_n over_o their_o subject_n and_o yet_o be_v destitute_a of_o all_o such_o intrinsical_n or_o ecclesiastical_a power_n either_o directive_n or_o executive_a since_o neither_o they_o know_v nor_o will_v know_v the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o be_v the_o only_a directive_n or_o regulative_a principle_n in_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n &_o government_n neither_o ever_o do_v they_o or_o will_v they_o exercise_v any_o of_o these_o power_n yea_o they_o renounce_v they_o both_o now_o moral_o he_o be_v not_o say_v to_o have_v power_n to_o exercise_v a_o act_n who_o never_o exercise_v nor_o will_v exercise_v it_o but_o renounce_v it_o and_o all_o power_n unto_o it_o ergo_fw-la 14._o if_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n in_o quality_n of_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v any_o such_o intrinsical_a power_n or_o authority_n about_o the_o church_n church_n business_n and_o religion_n then_o must_v it_o not_o be_v call_v only_o a_o political_a civil_a or_o secular_a but_o also_o a_o ecclesiastical_a and_o spiritual_a power_n yea_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o his_o power_n must_v as_o well_o be_v define_v by_o spiritual_a and_o ecclesiastical_a action_n of_o direction_n and_o government_n and_o by_o spiritual_a and_o ecclesiastiall_a matter_n as_o by_o civil_a action_n and_o matter_n for_o it_o be_v ordinary_a to_o define_v all_o faculty_n habitude_n and_o all_o natural_a or_o moral_a power_n and_o authority_n by_o their_o act_n and_o object_n whereunto_o they_o have_v any_o intrinsical_v reference_n as_o visum_fw-la per_fw-la visibile_fw-la auditum_fw-la per_fw-la audibile_fw-la logicam_fw-la per_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d phisicam_fw-la per_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d etc._n etc._n but_o so_o be_v it_o not_o of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n for_o neither_o be_v it_o call_v ecclesiastical_a religious_a or_o spiritual_a neither_o be_v it_o the_o custom_n of_o any_o learned_a politician_n who_o ever_o define_v it_o exact_o to_o define_v it_o in_o such_o a_o manner_n ergo_fw-la 15._o if_o it_o be_v so_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n can_v not_o be_v a_o good_a magistrate_n unless_o he_o rule_v the_o church_n well_o for_o in_o omit_v this_o he_o shall_v omit_v the_o principal_a part_n of_o his_o office_n so_o not_o be_v skill_v in_o divinity_n he_o shall_v be_v unworthy_a of_o his_o charge_n and_o worthy_a to_o be_v depose_v which_o i_o believe_v none_o but_o independent_a magistrate_n will_v grant_v 16._o yea_o to_o be_v a_o true_a magistrate_n and_o acquit_v himself_o of_o his_o charge_n he_o must_v be_v a_o independent_a for_o to_o acquit_v himself_o of_o the_o charge_n of_o a_o civil_a magistrate_n he_o must_v rule_v the_o church_n well_o to_o rule_v the_o church_n well_o he_o must_v rule_v it_o in_o the_o independent_a way_n for_o episcopal_a government_n be_v naught_o not_o be_v so_o much_o as_o essential_o ecclesiastical_a government_n and_o presbyterian_a government_n if_o they_o be_v believe_v be_v nothing_o else_o but_o episcopal_a government_n to_o rule_v it_o in_o the_o independent_a way_n he_o must_v be_v a_o independent_a ergo_fw-la a_o primo_fw-la ad_fw-la ultimum_fw-la to_o be_v a_o true_a or_o lawful_a magistrate_n he_o must_v be_v a_o independent_a this_o for_o any_o thing_n i_o can_v see_v fall_v very_o little_a short_a of_o treason_n for_o howsoever_o happy_o they_o intend_v it_o not_o yet_o they_o tend_v as_o fast_o as_o they_o can_v to_o it_o 17._o that_o moral_a power_n whereof_o the_o external_a act_n be_v moral_o impossible_a be_v moral_o impossible_a but_o such_o be_v that_o intrinsical_a power_n in_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n about_o spiritual_a matter_n in_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n ergo_fw-la that_o intrinsical_v power_n etc._n etc._n must_v be_v moral_o impossible_a the_o major_a proposition_n be_v certain_a for_o neither_o god_n nor_o nature_n nor_o man_n in_o their_o right_a wit_n ever_o ordain_v any_o moral_a power_n whereof_o the_o act_n be_v moral_o impossible_a for_o active_a power_n be_v only_o for_o their_o act_n as_o for_o their_o end_n now_o if_o the_o end_n be_v impossible_a so_o must_v that_o which_o be_v for_o that_o end_n be_v impossible_a and_o if_o it_o be_v impossible_a to_o sail_v we_o shall_v never_o build_v ship_n to_o sail_v with_o i_o prove_v the_o minor_a for_o i_o put_v the_o case_n there_o be_v a_o ecumenical_a council_n as_o have_v be_v see_v in_o former_a time_n and_o may_v be_v in_o time_n to_o come_v then_o shall_v it_o not_o be_v possible_a for_o any_o christian_a magistrate_n to_o put_v in_o execution_n any_o such_o power_n over_o a_o oecumenick_n council_n unless_o he_o be_v a_o oecumenick_n magistrate_n to_o who_o authority_n it_o can_v submit_v but_o such_o a_o magistrate_n moral_o be_v not_o like_a to_o be_v find_v e._n 18._o if_o the_o king_n and_o parliament_n or_o any_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v judge_n betwixt_o we_o and_o the_o independent_o then_o must_v the_o independent_o submit_v to_o their_o judgement_n and_o command_n if_o so_o how_o be_v it_o that_o against_o the_o law_n of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o their_o own_o tenet_n they_o erect_v so_o many_o independent_a church_n without_o their_o permission_n and_o consent_n and_o that_o the_o independent_a minister_n of_o the_o synod_n in_o print_a book_n have_v divulge_v their_o judgement_n upon_o the_o matter_n in_o debate_n in_o the_o synod_n and_o bring_v in_o so_o many_o novelty_n in_o religion_n and_o all_o this_o against_o the_o formal_a ordinance_n of_o both_o the_o house_n of_o parliament_n to_o which_o they_o pretend_v so_o much_o submission_n 19_o this_o opinion_n make_v all_o ecclesiastical_a power_n unnecessary_a and_o superfluous_a for_o since_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v a_o intrinsical_a power_n both_o directive_n and_o executive_a to_o govern_v the_o church_n as_o this_o m._n s._n will_v make_v we_o beseeve_v what_o need_n be_v it_o that_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n have_v any_o such_o power_n for_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v power_n enough_o to_o govern_v both_o the_o state_n and_o the_o church_n but_o the_o ecclesiastical_a power_n be_v not_o unnecessary_a or_o superfluous_a since_o god_n have_v ordain_v presbytery_n and_o some_o in_o the_o church_n to_o be_v ruler_n and_o other_o to_o be_v rule_v for_o it_o be_v a_o maxim_n both_o in_o nature_n and_o in_o grace_n that_o deus_fw-la et_fw-la natura_fw-la nihil_fw-la faciunt_fw-la frustra_fw-la ergo_fw-la the_o independent_o opinion_n whereof_o these_o absurdity_n follow_v must_v be_v false_a 20._o because_o the_o evangelist_n prophet_n pastor_n doctor_n and_o other_o christian_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n will_v never_o acknowledge_v any_o such_o authority_n in_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n or_o obey_v they_o as_o we_o see_v throughout_o all_o the_o history_n of_o the_o act_n and_o of_o the_o primitive_a church_n 21._o if_o king_n parliament_n and_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v any_o internal_a directive_n imperative_a or_o executive_a power_n over_o the_o church_n either_o it_o shall_v be_v supreme_a and_o sovereign_a or_o subaltern_n if_o supreme_a or_o sovereign_n than_o we_o have_v king_n in_o the_o church_n yea_o some_o high_a office_n and_o officer_n in_o the_o church_n then_o that_o of_o the_o apostolate_a and_o the_o apostle_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o st._n paul_n 1._o cor._n 12._o rom._n 12._o eph._n 4._o if_o subaltern_a than_o the_o king_n and_o parliament_n and_o all_o magistrate_n be_v subject_a to_o some_o ecclesiastical_a power_n and_o be_v not_o supreme_a judge_n in_o the_o church_n 22._o if_o the_o magistrate_n have_v any_o such_o power_n either_o the_o supreme_a or_o subaltern_n magistrate_n have_v it_o but_o the_o supreme_a have_v it_o not_o as_o we_o have_v see_v nor_o the_o subaltern_n for_o what_o reason_n that_o every_o justice_n of_o peace_n yea_o be_v he_o never_o so_o ignorant_a in_o divinity_n or_o never_o so_o vicious_a in_o his_o life_n shall_v have_v power_n over_o a_o whole_a nationall_n or_o ecumenical_a synod_n it_o be_v not_o possible_a for_o he_o have_v no_o power_n over_o all_o the_o church_n that_o they_o represent_v neither_o do_v ever_o all_o the_o church_n send_v their_o commissioner_n to_o the_o synod_n upon_o any_o such_o term_n neither_o have_v it_o ever_o be_v acknowledge_v by_o any_o synod_n how_o ridiculous_a be_v it_o to_o think_v that_o every_o justice_n of_o peace_n who_o have_v not_o so_o much_o liberty_n as_o to_o enter_v in_o to_o this_o present_a synod_n shall_v notwithstanding_o rule_v it_o or_o domineer_v over_o it_o neither_o do_v you_o grant_v so_o much_o authority_n as_o i_o believe_v to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n in_o your_o synod_n in_o the_o netherlands_o but_o what_o reason_n be_v it_o that_o the_o subaltern_a magistrate_n of_o one_o town_n shall_v rule_v over_o the_o synod_n rather_o than_o the_o magistrate_n of_o the_o town_n from_o whence_o be_v send_v a_o other_o commissioner_n 23._o if_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n or_o any_o
the_o take_v away_o of_o evil_a the_o conservation_n of_o order_n and_o unity_n and_o to_o avoid_v schism_n 2._o neither_o do_v christ_n by_o his_o death_n obtain_v for_o we_o a_o immunity_n from_o all_o obedience_n or_o a_o independent_a licentiousness_n to_o do_v ill_o 3._o and_o this_o be_v the_o holy_a ghost_n reason_n in_o that_o same_o place_n and_o thou_o shall_v put_v away_o the_o evil_a from_o israel_n and_o all_o the_o people_n shall_v hear_v and_o fear_v and_o do_v no_o more_o presumptuous_o ver_fw-la 12.13_o which_o oblige_v we_o as_o well_o unto_o obedience_n under_o the_o new_a testament_n as_o those_o of_o the_o old_a testament_n 25._o so_o we_o have_v a_o example_n of_o corah_n dathan_n abiram_n and_o on_o who_o be_v independent_o and_o for_o their_o independency_n and_o not_o subjection_n unto_o the_o authoritative_a power_n of_o moses_n and_o aaron_n be_v severe_o punish_v by_o moses_n and_o perish_v miserable_o we_o may_v bring_v many_o reason_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n himself_o wherefore_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n must_v punish_v idolater_n false_a prophet_n or_o heretic_n etc._n etc._n 26._o because_o god_n people_n be_v a_o holy_a people_n to_o the_o lord_n 27._o because_o they_o know_v that_o god_n be_v faithful_a and_o keep_v his_o covenant_n deut._n 7._o and_o 13._o neither_o can_v any_o man_n blame_v such_o argument_n but_o those_o who_o will_v blame_v the_o holy_a ghost_n his_o argument_n for_o they_o be_v not_o i_o but_o his._n chap._n vi_o wherein_o be_v answer_v m.s._n his_o reason_n that_o he_o have_v chap._n 1._o and_o first_o the_o first_o six_o now_o i_o will_v propound_v m.s._n his_o objection_n whereof_o many_o conclude_v that_o this_o intrinsical_v power_n not_o only_o do_v belong_v to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n but_o also_o to_o all_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n m.s._n then_o p._n 33._o §_o 2._o argue_v 1._o thus_o by_o such_o a_o umpirage_n and_o decision_n as_o this_o between_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o himself_o viz._n a.s._n with_o his_o fellow_n presbyter_n have_v he_o not_o make_v the_o one_o judex_n and_o the_o other_o carnifex_fw-la the_o one_o i_o e._n the_o civil_a magistrate_n must_v give_v the_o sentence_n the_o other_o must_v do_v execution_n answ_n a.s._n 1_o there_o be_v no_o decision_n at_o all_o between_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o a._n s._n for_o a._n s._n be_v but_o a_o private_a man_n neither_o magistrate_n nor_o church-officer_n 2._o neither_o be_v the_o presbyter_n his_o fellow-presbyter_n since_o he_o be_v no_o presbyter_n these_o then_o in_o the_o beginning_n be_v manifest_a untruth_n 3._o neither_o can_v this_o decision_n in_o grant_v a_o intrinsical_a power_n both_o directive_n and_o executive_a to_o the_o church_n and_o a_o extrinsecall_v to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n viz._n which_o be_v extrinsecall_v in_o respect_n of_o ecclesiastical_a power_n but_o intrinsical_v to_o civil_a power_n make_v the_o church_n or_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n a_o judge_n and_o the_o parliament_n or_o civil_a magistrate_n a_o hangman_n to_o remember_v his_o most_o humble_a respect_n unto_o the_o king_n parliament_z and_o all_o the_o judge_n of_o this_o kingdom_n for_o the_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n as_o it_o be_v the_o common_a opinion_n of_o all_o our_o divine_n can_v judge_v of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n his_o duty_n 2._o neither_o have_v they_o ever_o be_v so_o foolish_a as_o m._n s._n most_o passionate_o and_o impudent_o calumniate_v they_o here_o to_o command_v he_o any_o thing_n 3._o they_o acknowledge_v most_o willing_o that_o the_o church_n be_v material_o a_o part_n of_o the_o state_n be_v subject_a to_o civil_a government_n 4._o that_o the_o church_n which_o be_v the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n have_v no_o civil_a power_n since_o it_o be_v not_o of_o this_o world_n joh._n 18.26_o 5._o that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n command_v and_o compel_v such_o as_o be_v refractory_a and_o disobedient_a to_o the_o church_n must_v not_o see_v with_o the_o church_n eye_n but_o with_o his_o own_o civil_a or_o political_a eye_n 6._o and_o that_o in_o so_o do_v he_o obey_v not_o the_o church_n or_o any_o ecclesiastical_a power_n but_o god_n who_o power_n he_o exercise_v in_o the_o state_n as_o the_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n do_v exercise_n christ_n power_n in_o the_o church_n 7._o yea_o more_o that_o sometime_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n may_v not_o punish_v those_o who_o be_v disobedient_a to_o the_o church_n viz._n if_o thereupon_o may_v follow_v the_o undo_n of_o the_o state_n etc._n etc._n 8._o for_o the_o same_o reason_n it_o be_v most_o untrue_a that_o the_o one_o give_v out_o the_o sentence_n and_o the_o other_o must_v do_v execution_n 9_o and_o moreover_o because_o they_o be_v two_o several_a judicatories_n they_o be_v both_o independent_a one_o upon_o another_o howsoever_o both_o divers_a way_n subject_a one_o to_o another_o for_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v subject_a in_o a_o spiritual_a way_n to_o the_o church_n he_o must_v learn_v god_n will_n by_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n who_o be_v god_n ambassador_n send_v unto_o he_o he_o must_v be_v subject_a unto_o ecclesiastical_a censure_n as_o we_o see_v by_o the_o example_n of_o the_o king_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n and_o theodosius_n the_o emperor_n in_o the_o new_a so_o the_o church_n again_o be_v subject_n not_o in_o a_o spiritual_a but_o in_o a_o civil_a way_n to_o the_o government_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n as_o all_o protestant_n and_o minister_n themselves_o confess_v and_o plead_v for_o it_o against_o the_o roman_a clergy_n in_o favour_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n 10._o the_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v power_n not_o to_o receive_v into_o the_o state_n all_o that_o which_o the_o church_n judge_v fit_v he_o may_v irresistable_o hinder_v it_o if_o he_o will_n 11._o if_o he_o be_v carnifex_n because_o that_o he_o command_v it_o to_o be_v put_v in_o execution_n he_o shall_v be_v carnifex_n when_o ever_o he_o shall_v command_v his_o own_o judgement_n to_o be_v put_v in_o execution_n 12._o so_o shall_v independent_o be_v carnifice_n when_o either_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n or_o the_o church_n command_v they_o to_o do_v their_o duty_n 13._o the_o carnifex_n or_o executioner_n pronounce_v not_o a_o sentence_n as_o the_o magistrate_n m._n s._n obj._n 2._o pag._n 33._o the_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v much_o behold_v to_o the_o presbyter_n for_o give_v he_o a_o consecrate_a sword_n to_o fight_v the_o presbiterian_a battle_n and_o for_o persuade_v of_o he_o to_o pull_v out_o his_o own_o eye_n upon_o this_o presumption_n that_o he_o shall_v see_v better_o with_o he_o a._n s._n as_o able_a as_o this_o man_n be_v in_o jeer_a and_o calumniate_a as_o unable_a be_v he_o in_o argue_v against_o this_o truth_n especial_o if_o he_o have_v no_o better_a argument_n in_o his_o budget_n by_o way_n of_o reserve_n than_o what_o he_o bring_v here_o all_o he_o say_v be_v utter_o false_a 1._o the_o presbyterian_o have_v none_o but_o spiritual_a battle_n to_o fight_v 2_o cor._n 10.3_o 4._o the_o weapon_n of_o their_o warfare_n be_v not_o carnal_a 2._o they_o do_v not_o war_n after_o the_o flesh_n neither_o wrestle_n they_o against_o flesh_n and_o blood_n but_o against_o the_o ruler_n of_o the_o darkness_n of_o this_o world_n against_o spiritual_a wickedness_n in_o high_a place_n their_o sword_n be_v the_o sword_n of_o the_o spirit_n eph._n 6.12_o and_o therefore_o they_o can_v nor_o pretend_v they_o to_o give_v he_o this_o spiritual_a sword_n they_o can_v quit_v it_o much_o less_o can_v they_o give_v he_o the_o material_a sword_n which_o be_v none_o of_o they_o to_o give_v for_o he_o have_v it_o of_o god_n he_o be_v the_o minister_n of_o god_n rom._n 13.4_o avenger_n to_o execute_v wrath_n upon_o he_o that_o do_v evil_a 2._o it_o be_v false_a that_o the_o presbyterian_o persuade_v he_o to_o pull_v out_o his_o own_o eye_n or_o to_o see_v with_o they_o 1._o for_o they_o teach_v he_o to_o learn_v the_o gospel_n by_o read_v the_o word_n and_o hear_v it_o preach_v by_o the_o minister_n thereof_o according_a to_o god_n word_n and_o not_o by_o every_o cobbler_n as_o among_o independent_o in_o exercise_v their_o gift_n 2._o and_o afterward_o to_o see_v and_o judge_v by_o his_o own_o eye_n 3._o they_o say_v and_o preach_v that_o it_o be_v a_o great_a sin_n in_o he_o if_o he_o judge_v with_o any_o other_o than_o his_o own_o eye_n 4._o he_o must_v judge_v according_a to_o the_o law_n of_o the_o state_n otherwise_o he_o do_v not_o the_o part_n of_o a_o judge_n 5._o yea_o if_o his_o judgement_n dissent_v from_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o law_n we_o know_v well_o enough_o he_o ought_v to_o quit_v both_o his_o own_o judgement_n and_o that_o of_o the_o church_n and_o to_o judge_v against_o his_o own_o private_a conscience_n according_a to_o the_o law_n and_o his_o
good_a of_o the_o church_n which_o he_o will_v have_v to_o belong_v to_o the_o parliament_n and_o all_o other_o 2._o a_o authoritative_a power_n to_o conclude_v say_v and_o set_v down_o what_o shall_v must_v or_o aught_o to_o be_v do_v against_o all_o contradiction_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o this_o he_o grant_v to_o god_n alone_o and_o add_v if_o the_o presbyterian_o demand_v such_o a_o directive_n power_n let_v they_o ask_v the_o crown_n throne_n and_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n also_o to_o this_o a._n s._n say_v that_o all_o man_n may_v grant_v it_o to_o be_v true_a if_o they_o claim_v any_o sovereign_a royal_a authoritative_a power_n but_o if_o they_o claim_v only_o a_o ministerial_a power_n it_o be_v as_o great_a a_o sacrilege_n to_o deny_v they_o it_o as_o blasphemy_n in_o they_o to_o arrogate_v the_o other_o since_o they_o be_v god_n minister_n and_o ambassador_n for_o christ_n 3._o a_o prudentiall_a faculty_n or_o ability_n to_o direct_v order_n or_o prescribe_v whether_o to_o a_o man_n self_n or_o to_o other_o what_o in_o a_o way_n of_o reason_n humane_a conjecture_n or_o probability_n be_v best_a and_o fit_a to_o be_v do_v follow_v or_o embrace_v in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o this_o he_o grant_v to_o the_o parliament_n to_o many_o private_a member_n of_o particular_a church_n and_o to_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n also_o howsoever_o with_o a_o restriction_n but_o in_o all_o these_o his_o conjecture_n he_o have_v no_o way_n guess_v at_o my_o mind_n for_o by_o a_o directive_n power_n however_o i_o mean_v a_o prudentiall_a prudence_n yet_o mean_v i_o not_o a_o private_a prudentiall_a prudence_n which_o may_v be_v find_v in_o midwife_n maidservant_n and_o watermen_n for_o in_o grant_v such_o a_o power_n to_o the_o parliament_n and_o ecclesiastical_a senate_n he_o grant_v they_o no_o more_o then_o to_o the_o mean_a of_o the_o people_n but_o i_o mean_v a_o authoritative_a public_a and_o ecclesiastical_a prudentiall_a power_n not_o sovereign_a imperial_a royal_a or_o despoticall_a or_o magisterial_a but_o ministerial_a such_o as_o may_v belong_v to_o minister_n and_o ambassador_n of_o christ_n and_o as_o i_o have_v say_v it_o be_v not_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d whereof_o aristotle_n speak_v in_o the_o category_n of_o quality_n but_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d no_o natural_a power_n no_o natural_a or_o supernatural_a habitude_n but_o potestas_fw-la or_o moral_a power_n depend_v upon_o will_n and_o not_o upon_o nature_n or_o that_o be_v the_o work_n of_o will_n and_o not_o of_o nature_n chap._n vii_o wherein_o be_v dissolve_v his_o 6_o 7_o 8_o 9_o 10_o 11_o 12._o reason_n borrow_a from_o the_o parliament_n ordinance_n ob._n 6._o after_o all_o his_o guess_v so_o little_a to_o purpose_n p._n 35._o §_o 6._o he_o endeavour_v to_o prove_v by_o the_o ordinance_n of_o the_o parliament_n for_o the_o call_n of_o the_o assembly_n that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n do_v claim_v yea_o and_o exercise_v act_n and_o make_v use_n of_o such_o a_o authority_n from_o day_n to_o day_n as_o occasion_n require_v because_o the_o parliament_n publish_v their_o ordinance_n for_o call_v the_o assembly_n a._n s._n answ_o i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n for_o that_o contrivance_n and_o publish_n of_o their_o ordinance_n be_v not_o a_o directive_n power_n intrinsical_v to_o the_o church_n whereof_o we_o speak_v for_o neither_o direct_v it_o they_o intrinsical_o in_o doctrine_n discipline_n or_o manner_n but_o extrinsecal_o 1._o because_o the_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n may_v be_v and_o have_v sundry_a time_n be_v convocate_v without_o it_o as_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n 2._o because_o it_o be_v before_o ever_o the_o synod_n begin_v and_o without_o any_o ecclesiastical_a act_n now_o what_o be_v before_o a_o synod_n begin_v and_o without_o any_o ecclesiastical_a act_n can_v be_v intrinsical_n to_o the_o synod_n or_o to_o the_o church_n 3._o because_o the_o directive_n power_n whereof_o i_o speak_v be_v in_o judge_v of_o controversy_n of_o religion_n etc._n etc._n but_o the_o publish_n of_o a_o ordinance_n for_o call_v the_o assembly_n be_v no_o such_o thing_n ergo_fw-la 4._o because_o that_o call_v of_o the_o assembly_n by_o civil_a authority_n alone_o be_v extraordinary_a howbeit_o very_o just_a and_o conform_v unto_o god_n word_n neither_o can_v this_o be_v a_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n unless_o it_o be_v virtual_o call_v by_o the_o church_n officer_n in_o virtue_n of_o their_o subsequent_a consent_n thereunto_o and_o all_o these_o answer_n must_v be_v take_v conjunct_o and_o not_o several_o 5._o because_o this_o assembly_n be_v not_o ecclesiastical_a in_o virtue_n of_o the_o ordinance_n of_o the_o parliament_n but_o of_o the_o virtual_a consent_n of_o the_o church_n the_o virtual_a indiction_n of_o it_o by_o church_n authority_n contribute_v to_o make_v it_o intrinsical_o ecclesiastical_a but_o the_o ordinance_n of_o the_o parliament_n be_v extrinsecall_v unto_o it_o in_o so_o far_o forth_o as_o ecclesiastical_a howsoever_o it_o be_v very_o just_a and_o necessary_a but_o it_o be_v intrinsical_v to_o it_o accidental_o and_o in_o so_o far_o as_o be_v to_o be_v receive_v in_o the_o state_n which_o absolute_o be_v extrinsecall_v to_o the_o church_n ob._n m._n s._n in_o limit_v those_o that_o be_v to_o be_v of_o the_o assembly_n to_o the_o subject_n or_o argument_n on_o which_o it_o be_v permit_v they_o to_o debate_v they_o do_v no_o less_o i._n e._n they_o exercise_v a_o directive_n power_n a._n s._n answ_n 1._o but_o this_o be_v no_o intrinsical_a directive_n power_n whereof_o i_o speak_v viz._n in_o teach_v preach_a judgeing_a of_o controversy_n of_o religion_n etc._n etc._n 2._o this_o be_v no_o ecclesiastical_a but_o a_o civil_a power_n 3._o in_o so_o do_v the_o parliament_n judge_v not_o what_o be_v to_o be_v believe_v or_o practise_v in_o the_o church_n but_o ordain_v they_o to_o judge_v which_o be_v the_o true_a intrinsical_n directive_n power_n 4._o and_o this_o be_v extraordinary_a in_o respect_n of_o god_n particular_a howbeit_o not_o in_o respect_n of_o his_o general_a providence_n in_o the_o government_n of_o his_o church_n m._n s._n ob._n 8._o in_o appoint_v and_o order_v they_o not_o to_o determine_v or_o conclude_v of_o thing_n as_o they_o please_v by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n but_o to_o deliver_v their_o opinion_n and_o advice_n as_o shall_v be_v most_o agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n another_o proviso_n in_o the_o ordinance_n they_o do_v the_o same_o a.s._n 1_o m.s._n will_v here_o seem_v to_o give_v some_o great_a power_n unto_o the_o parliament_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n &_o yet_o it_o be_v nothing_o else_o but_o that_o which_o he_o grant_v to_o too_o many_o private_a member_n of_o particular_a church_n so_o that_o if_o the_o king_n and_o parliament_n will_v become_v member_n of_o this_o m._n s._n his_o church_n and_o he_o please_v to_o admit_v they_o it_o may_v be_v that_o he_o will_v grant_v they_o as_o much_o power_n as_o to_o other_o private_a member_n thereof_o 2._o note_v that_o he_o say_v not_o that_o it_o belong_v unto_o they_o but_z that_o they_o claim_v it_o exercise_n act_n and_o make_v use_n of_o it_o but_o quo_fw-la jure_fw-la quave_fw-la injuriâ_fw-la he_o tell_v not_o 3._o in_o all_o this_o there_o appear_v no_o intrinsical_n or_o ecclesiastical_a power_n they_o do_v it_o not_o by_o a_o spiritual_a but_o by_o a_o secular_a power_n 4._o and_o if_o the_o church_n have_v not_o a_o spiritual_a and_o ecclesiastical_a power_n to_o determine_v and_o to_o conclude_v what_o need_v the_o parliament_n to_o forbid_v it_o the_o synod_n rather_o than_o ordinary_a tradesman_n who_o have_v no_o such_o power_n to_o determine_v such_o matter_n 5._o neither_o by_o this_o command_n be_v it_o the_o parliament_n mind_n as_o i_o believe_v to_o take_v away_o from_o the_o church_n the_o directive_n and_o intrinsical_v power_n that_o god_n have_v grant_v she_o but_o only_o to_o desire_v she_o to_o put_v off_o her_o determination_n till_o it_o see_v how_o far_o it_o can_v prevail_v by_o fair_a mean_n to_o gain_v pertinacious_a man_n who_o may_v oppoâ—e_v it_o and_o happy_o also_o till_o it_o receive_v full_a satisfaction_n itself_o before_o it_o confirm_v such_o determination_n by_o a_o act_n of_o parliament_n and_o so_o make_v they_o to_o be_v receive_v by_o their_o authority_n in_o the_o state_n for_o the_o parliament_n have_v no_o less_o civil_a and_o secular_a authority_n to_o receive_v or_o not_o receive_v it_o by_o a_o civil_a law_n into_o the_o state_n than_o any_o synod_n have_v spiritual_a authority_n to_o establish_v or_o not_o establish_v it_o by_o a_o ecclesiastical_a law_n in_o the_o church_n wherefore_o in_o this_o the_o parliament_n intend_v not_o to_o cross_v the_o church_n government_n nor_o to_o be_v cross_v in_o their_o civil_a government_n by_o the_o church_n as_o in_o former_a time_n
a.s._n answ_n the_o parliament_n have_v power_n and_o a_o call_n to_o judge_n politicè_fw-la about_o the_o church_n and_o church_n matter_n what_o decision_n and_o constitution_n of_o the_o church_n assembly_n they_o will_v approve_v or_o disapprove_v what_o religion_n doctrine_n and_o discipline_n they_o will_v admit_v or_o tolerate_v in_o the_o state_n but_o they_o have_v no_o call_n or_o directive_n authoritative_a power_n in_o the_o church_n to_o judge_v this_o or_o that_o to_o be_v the_o true_a doctrine_n or_o discipline_n this_o belong_v to_o church-officer_n yet_o they_o have_v a_o private_a judgement_n of_o discretion_n about_o such_o matter_n as_o other_o christian_n and_o a_o public_a political_a authoritative_a judgement_n and_o a_o coactive_a political_a power_n to_o compel_v the_o subject_n to_o admit_v in_o the_o state_n such_o or_o such_o a_o true_a doctrine_n or_o discipline_n of_o the_o church_n howbeit_o not_o to_o believe_v it_o or_o to_o love_n or_o approve_v it_o in_o their_o judgement_n or_o will_n m._n s._n ob._n 14._o ask_v whether_o it_o be_v reasonable_a that_o the_o apologist_n matter_n yet_o remain_v undecided_a and_o unjudge_v between_o they_o and_o their_o brethren_n shall_v suffer_v as_o man_n convict_v only_o because_o their_o adversary_n and_o accuser_n the_o brethren_n you_o know_v of_o be_v more_o in_o number_n than_o they_o and_o will_v needs_o continue_v adversary_n to_o they_o a.s._n answ_n 1._o though_o you_o vaunt_v evermore_o of_o your_o suffering_n we_o have_v never_o see_v they_o 2._o these_o who_o you_o unjust_o call_v your_o adversary_n have_v suffer_v much_o more_o than_o you_o and_o yet_o publish_v it_o not_o unto_o the_o world_n 3._o it_o be_v absolute_o false_a that_o you_o suffer_v 4._o and_o yet_o much_o false_a that_o you_o suffer_v as_o man_n convict_v 5._o and_o yet_o false_a that_o you_o suffer_v because_o your_o adversary_n be_v more_o in_o number_n and_o 6._o false_a of_o all_o that_o only_o you_o suffer_v for_o that_o 7._o man_n that_o suffer_v be_v not_o honour_v as_o you_o be_v neither_o receive_v they_o so_o great_a favour_n present_n and_o benefice_n as_o you_o do_v 8._o it_o be_v a_o great_a sufferance_n to_o the_o church_n of_o god_n to_o be_v calumniate_v and_o upbraid_v by_o so_o contemptible_a a_o number_n of_o minister_n and_o to_o see_v so_o many_o libel_n print_v against_o she_o by_o those_o of_o your_o sect._n 9_o it_o be_v false_a that_o you_o be_v not_o condemn_v for_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o all_o other_o protestant_a church_n in_o approve_v the_o presbyterian_a government_n as_o we_o say_v heretofore_o can_v not_o but_o disprove_v and_o condemn_v you_o all_o who_o condemn_v it_o 10._o neither_o do_v all_o this_o prove_v a_o directive_n ecclesiastical_a power_n belong_v to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n 11._o you_o have_v no_o adversary_n here_o but_o your_o false_a opinion_n 12._o neither_o be_v your_o brethren_n adversary_n to_o you_o but_o to_o your_o erronion_n opinion_n which_o be_v a_o thousand_o time_n more_o your_o adversary_n than_o they_o 13._o and_o both_o you_o and_o any_o of_o we_o must_v legal_o suffer_v according_a to_o our_o demerit_n when_o we_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v and_o condemn_v by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la as_o you_o be_v already_o in_o very_a many_o thing_n for_o this_o be_v the_o way_n of_o all_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n neither_o can_v independent_o change_v it_o 15._o ibid._n m.s._n reason_v thus_o if_o our_o saviour_n testimony_n concern_v himself_o in_o his_o own_o cause_n be_v not_o valid_a how_o much_o less_o the_o testimony_n of_o any_o other_o yea_o of_o a_o thousand_o in_o any_o matter_n that_o concern_v themselves_o and_o consequent_o that_o of_o our_o brethren_n in_o the_o synod_n but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a joh._n 5.31_o if_o i_o bear_v witness_n of_o myself_o my_o witness_n be_v not_o true_a i._n e._n it_o be_v not_o in_o a_o formal_a and_o legal_a interpretation_n true_a but_o you_o may_v reasonable_o wave_v it_o a.s._n ans_fw-fr 1._o either_o christ_n here_o speak_v of_o his_o own_o testimony_n speak_v of_o himself_o according_a to_o his_o divine_a to_o his_o humane_a or_o according_a to_o both_o his_o nature_n item_n 2._o either_o he_o speak_v of_o its_o validity_n in_o itself_o or_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o jew_n to_o who_o he_o do_v speak_v and_o who_o shall_v have_v admit_v of_o it_o item_n 3._o either_o of_o his_o public_a and_o judicial_a or_o of_o his_o private_a testimony_n 1._o if_o in_o the_o first_o proposition_n we_o take_v our_o saviour_n according_a to_o his_o divine_a nature_n or_o according_a to_o both_o viz._n as_o mediator_n the_o assumption_n be_v false_a for_o there_o christ_n speak_v not_o of_o himself_o according_a to_o his_o divine_a nature_n or_o to_o both_o or_o as_o mediator_n for_o under_o that_o notion_n he_o be_v judge_n of_o quick_a and_o dead_a and_o christ_n say_v joh._n 8.14_o that_o if_o he_o testify_v of_o himself_o his_o testimony_n be_v true_a 2._o or_o if_o he_o speak_v of_o himself_o under_o this_o notion_n than_o he_o speak_v not_o of_o his_o testimony_n as_o it_o be_v in_o itself_o but_o as_o it_o be_v in_o respect_n of_o they_o who_o receive_v it_o not_o viz_o the_o jew_n and_o unbeliever_n who_o receive_v it_o not_o as_o the_o testimony_n of_o god_n or_o of_o the_o mediator_n however_o it_o be_v such_o for_o they_o know_v he_o not_o joh._n 8.15.19_o but_o they_o judge_v according_a to_o the_o flesh_n neither_o know_v they_o he_o nor_o his_o father_n and_o if_o they_o have_v know_v the_o king_n of_o glory_n they_o have_v never_o crucify_v he_o and_o then_o the_o proposition_n be_v false_a for_o it_o follow_v not_o that_o if_o christ_n testimony_n who_o be_v god_n be_v not_o acknowledge_v as_o valid_a by_o those_o who_o know_v it_o not_o ergo_fw-la the_o testimony_n of_o a_o presbytery_n or_o synod_n shall_v not_o be_v acknowledge_v by_o such_o as_o be_v subject_a thereunto_o and_o know_v it_o for_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n two_o or_o three_o idle_a fellow_n shall_v not_o believe_v the_o testimony_n of_o your_o presbytery_n or_o assembly_n 3._o i_o retort_v then_o the_o argument_n if_o christ_n testimony_n be_v not_o legal_o valid_a in_o his_o own_o cause_n ergo_fw-la you_o in_o your_o presbytery_n and_o assembly_n be_v not_o legal_o true_a or_o valid_a in_o your_o own_o cause_n when_o you_o judge_v in_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o and_o discipline_n but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a ergo_fw-la the_o second_o also_o 4._o if_o christ_n be_v here_o take_v according_a to_o his_o humane_a nature_n then_o either_o he_o be_v take_v according_a to_o his_o humane_a nature_n as_o it_o be_v in_o itself_o without_o sin_n or_o as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o pharise_n estimation_n if_o in_o the_o first_o way_n the_o assumption_n be_v false_a for_o there_o the_o pharise_n take_v christ_n for_o a_o sinful_a man_n and_o who_o can_v deny_v but_o that_o the_o testimony_n of_o a_o man_n in_o the_o state_n of_o integrity_n be_v valid_a 5._o if_o it_o be_v take_v in_o the_o second_o way_n i_o deny_v the_o first_o proposition_n for_o the_o testimony_n of_o judge_n in_o judge_v according_a to_o law_n in_o thing_n that_o concern_v not_o so_o much_o their_o person_n as_o the_o society_n that_o they_o represent_v in_o judgement_n as_o the_o assembly_n and_o all_o ecclesiastical_a judge_n do_v be_v to_o be_v prefer_v before_o the_o testimony_n of_o any_o particular_a man_n 6._o and_o if_o this_o maxim_n of_o the_o independent_o hold_v the_o judgement_n of_o no_o civil_a magistrate_n yea_o not_o of_o the_o parliament_n itself_o shâ—ll_v hold_v if_o any_o of_o they_o or_o any_o delinquent_n take_v the_o parliament_n to_o party_n in_o any_o business_n the_o parliament_n will_v do_v well_o to_o take_v notice_n of_o such_o independent_a maxim_n 7._o but_o this_o be_v the_o arminian_o way_n at_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n to_o the_o end_n they_o may_v decline_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o synod_n and_o he_o be_v a_o arminian_n who_o propound_v this_o argument_n who_o of_o late_o be_v become_v a_o independent_a i_o â—eare_z they_o mean_v to_o unite_v the_o two_o sect_n in_o one_o 8._o christ_n be_v not_o here_o speak_v of_o himself_o how_o far_o forth_o his_o testimony_n and_o judgement_n may_v hold_v in_o a_o judicial_a way_n whereof_o we_o speak_v here_o but_o in_o a_o private_a way_n for_o this_o action_n be_v not_o judicial_a but_o a_o particular_a discourse_n 9_o neither_o be_v the_o business_n now_o in_o hand_n at_o the_o synod_n of_o particular_a but_o of_o public_a concernment_n viz._n the_o church_n wherein_o the_o church_n that_o be_v judge_n can_v be_v take_v to_o party_n however_o you_o call_v she_o a_o crowd_n wherein_o many_o particular_a person_n be_v concern_v m._n s._n ob._n 16._o p._n 37._o
subjection_n unto_o their_o order_n for_o compulsion_n be_v a_o principio_fw-la externo_fw-la contra_fw-la inclinationem_fw-la agentis_fw-la it_o proceed_v from_o a_o externall_n principle_n against_o the_o natural_a inclination_n of_o the_o agent_n viz._n that_o be_v compel_v to_o produce_v the_o action_n and_o so_o be_v exercise_v only_o against_o the_o body_n over_o which_o the_o church_n take_v no_o authority_n but_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n alone_o 2._o neither_o say_v i_o to_o my_o knowledge_n any_o such_o thing_n 3._o neither_o cite_v you_o the_o place_n 4._o only_o i_o remember_v that_o in_o my_o observation_n and_o annotation_n upon_o the_o apology_n p._n 39_o §_o 4_o i_o say_v that_o the_o combine_a eldership_n have_v a_o authoritative_a power_n all_o man_n and_o church_n thereof_o be_v bind_v by_o law_n and_o covenant_n to_o submit_v themselves_o thereunto_o viz._n in_o a_o spiritual_a manner_n since_o the_o power_n be_v spiritual_a never_o a_o word_n here_o of_o compulsion_n or_o violence_n our_o church_n neither_o compel_v man_n body_n nor_o have_v they_o any_o prison_n or_o any_o pecuniary_a mulct_n but_o if_o any_o man_n will_v trouble_v the_o church_n and_o be_v disobedient_a it_o be_v the_o duty_n of_o the_o christian_a civil_a magistrate_n to_o use_v his_o power_n to_o hinder_v such_o a_o disorder_n if_o we_o have_v not_o a_o christian_a and_o a_o orthodox_n magistrate_n in_o some_o place_n as_o in_o france_n and_o in_o some_o part_n of_o germany_n or_o if_o the_o christian_a magistrate_n will_v not_o do_v his_o duty_n he_o who_o will_v not_o submit_v unto_o our_o church-government_n be_v cast_v out_o and_o punish_v spiritual_o by_o simple_a censure_n suspension_n or_o excommunication_n according_a to_o the_o quality_n of_o his_o sin_n 5._o learn_v also_o i_o pray_v you_o m.s._n that_o it_o be_v not_o fallibility_n but_o actual_a fail_n or_o ignorance_n that_o may_v excuse_v he_o who_o be_v subject_a unto_o any_o government_n or_o authority_n from_o obedience_n nor_o yet_o all_o fail_v in_o judgement_n or_o error_n but_o only_o that_o which_o be_v antecedent_n to_o all_o the_o act_n of_o our_o will_n which_o moral_o we_o can_v shun_v and_o be_v invincible_a 6._o neither_o be_v it_o evermore_o expedient_a that_o subject_n know_v certain_o whether_o their_o governors_n judge_n or_o do_v right_a in_o what_o they_o do_v for_o subject_n in_o some_o case_n must_v obey_v in_o virtue_n of_o a_o probable_a knowledge_n or_o conjecture_v that_o their_o governor_n command_v just_o and_o especial_o when_o they_o be_v not_o compel_v to_o be_v actor_n in_o that_o which_o they_o believe_v to_o be_v unlawful_a for_o they_o to_o do_v for_o i_o put_v the_o case_n that_o the_o king_n and_o parliament_n take_v a_o resolution_n to_o make_v war_n against_o any_o foreign_a prince_n and_o press_v some_o man_n to_o serve_v in_o such_o a_o war_n it_o be_v not_o for_o every_o press_a man_n to_o call_v the_o king_n and_o parliament_n to_o a_o account_n about_o the_o equity_n of_o the_o war_n neither_o be_v they_o bind_v to_o discover_v to_o every_o soldier_n all_o the_o secret_n and_o particularity_n of_o state_n thereupon_o m.s._n ob._n 28._o why_o be_v you_o not_o satisfy_v with_o that_o subjection_n to_o your_o presbyterial_a decision_n that_o plead_v no_o exemption_n but_o only_o in_o case_n of_o non-satisfaction_n about_o the_o lawfulness_n or_o truth_n of_o they_o a.s._n ans_fw-fr 1._o we_o be_v content_a with_o it_o 2._o and_o in_o case_n of_o non-satisfaction_n our_o church_n give_v they_o sufficient_a satisfaction_n 3._o but_o if_o they_o will_v not_o be_v satisfy_v when_o many_o thousand_o be_v satisfy_v we_o maintain_v that_o it_o be_v not_o equitable_a that_o when_o 20000._o or_o 30000._o be_v satisfy_v two_o or_o three_o under_o pretext_n of_o non-satisfaction_n or_o twenty_o or_o thirty_o pertinacious_a fellow_n shall_v have_v liberty_n to_o trouble_v all_o the_o church_n of_o god_n in_o the_o world_n 4._o we_o say_v moreover_o that_o the_o church_n in_o dispute_v and_o confer_v with_o they_o and_o afterward_o in_o judge_v that_o she_o have_v give_v they_o sufficient_a satisfaction_n have_v give_v they_o sufficient_a satisfaction_n moral_o and_o that_o wise_a man_n shall_v judge_v it_o sufficient_a in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la and_o thereupon_o that_o they_o be_v to_o be_v condemn_v by_o the_o church_n in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la for_o there_o be_v no_o other_o way_n to_o proceed_v to_o sentence_n either_o in_o foro_fw-la civili_fw-la or_o ecclesiastico_fw-la 5._o if_o this_o will_v not_o satisfy_v they_o yet_o if_o they_o will_v be_v quiet_a and_o not_o trouble_v the_o church_n of_o god_n with_o their_o conventicle_n we_o can_v in_o christian_a charity_n tolerate_v they_o in_o their_o weakness_n yea_o in_o their_o malice_n if_o there_o be_v any_o till_o god_n impart_v unto_o they_o more_o grace_n but_o this_o serve_v nothing_o for_o independent_o who_o be_v come_v over_o the_o sea_n to_o beg_v a_o quarrel_n of_o we_o and_o to_o erect_v church_n in_o despite_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n against_o all_o law_n yea_o against_o their_o own_o tenet_n if_o they_o write_v as_o they_o believe_v for_o they_o pretend_v that_o church_n can_v be_v erect_v without_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n consent_v 6._o if_o all_o this_o content_v they_o not_o and_o their_o conscience_n will_v not_o permit_v they_o to_o do_v otherwise_o the_o port_n be_v free_a for_o they_o they_o may_v be_v go_v and_o live_v in_o all_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n in_o new_a england_n and_o trouble_v no_o more_o the_o country_n here_o than_o the_o country_n shall_v trouble_v they_o there_o 7._o or_o if_o this_o will_v not_o content_v they_o wherefore_o will_v they_o have_v more_o liberty_n here_o than_o they_o will_v grant_v we_o in_o new-england_n m.s._n ob._n 29._o if_o party_n may_v have_v cause_n to_o be_v offend_v with_o the_o church_n then_o have_v they_o power_n to_o judge_v of_o their_o action_n as_o well_o as_o they_o of_o they_o but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a ergo_fw-la the_o second_o also_o a.s._n i_o distinguish_v the_o consequent_a of_o the_o proposition_n they_o may_v judge_v by_o a_o public_a judgement_n it_o be_v false_a for_o every_o particular_a or_o private_a man_n have_v not_o a_o public_a power_n to_o judge_v nor_o consequent_o a_o public_a judgement_n they_o may_v judge_v by_o a_o private_a power_n which_o proper_o be_v not_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d potestas_fw-la authoritas_fw-la or_o authoritative_a power_n or_o judgement_n but_o a_o judgement_n of_o discretion_n so_o it_o be_v true_a but_o such_o a_o judgement_n be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o exempt_v he_o from_o obedience_n i_o mean_v not_o a_o active_a but_o a_o passive_a or_o rather_o a_o permissive_a obedience_n for_o howsoever_o his_o erroneous_a judgement_n may_v excuse_v and_o dispense_v he_o from_o a_o act_n wherein_o he_o be_v actor_n against_o his_o conscience_n yet_o can_v it_o not_o excuse_v he_o from_o suffer_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n for_o if_o he_o will_v not_o do_v what_o they_o will_v according_a to_o god_n word_n they_o may_v do_v and_o he_o must_v suffer_v and_o permit_v they_o to_o do_v what_o he_o will_v not_o and_o what_o they_o will_v according_a to_o god_n word_n whereof_o he_o have_v no_o public_a power_n to_o judge_v he_o must_v no_o way_n oppose_v actiuè_fw-fr the_o public_a judgement_n and_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n since_o he_o have_v no_o public_a power_n he_o must_v not_o set_v up_o a_o new_a church_n but_o deal_v with_o the_o church_n according_a to_o his_o vocation_n and_o if_o he_o can_v prevail_v in_o confer_v with_o the_o church_n he_o may_v appeal_v from_o a_o parish_n presbytery_n to_o a_o class_n if_o there_o he_o be_v likewise_o oppress_v he_o may_v appeal_v to_o a_o provincial_n synod_n if_o there_o again_o he_o be_v wrong_v by_o their_o judgement_n he_o may_v appeal_v unto_o a_o nationall_n synod_n if_o there_o he_o be_v oppress_v which_o probable_o will_v not_o ordinary_o fall_v out_o in_o all_o these_o judicatories_n rather_o than_o in_o first_o and_o last_o instance_n in_o a_o independent_a church_n compound_v peradventure_o of_o seven_o or_o eight_o idle_a fellow_n or_o pretend_v to_o be_v offend_v he_o must_v sit_v down_o patient_o and_o if_o he_o have_v any_o scruple_n of_o conscience_n he_o may_v consult_v foreign_a divine_n and_o if_o those_o satisfy_v he_o not_o in_o this_o singularity_n of_o his_o opinion_n i_o then_o propound_v my_o question_n whether_o it_o be_v more_o equitable_a that_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o world_n submit_v to_o this_o particular_a man_n opinion_n or_o he_o to_o they_o object_n but_o what_o if_o they_o err_v all_o and_o he_o be_v right_a answ_n when_o god_n have_v not_o give_v you_o any_o ordinary_a remedy_n you_o must_v have_v patience_n there_o must_v be_v offence_n yea_o heresy_n but_o woe_n unto_o he_o that_o be_v the_o cause_n
deut._n 4_o 5_o 6_o 7_o 8_o 9_o 10.13_o 14_o 20.23.33_o 34.37_o deut._n 7.6_o 7_o 8_o 9_o 10._o deut._n 10.12.15.21_o deut._n 26.17_o 18_o 19_o deut._n 28.9_o 10._o deut._n 29.13_o 14_o 15._o and_o deut._n 32._o vers_fw-la 8_o 9_o etc._n etc._n when_o the_o most_o high_o divide_v to_o the_o nation_n their_o inheritance_n when_o he_o separate_v the_o son_n of_o adam_n jacob_n be_v the_o lot_n of_o his_o inheritance_n etc._n etc._n amos_n 3.2_o you_o only_o have_v i_o know_v of_o all_o the_o family_n of_o the_o earth_n deut._n 39.29_o happy_a be_v thou_o o_o israel_n who_o be_v like_a unto_o thou_o o_o people_n save_v by_o the_o lord_n the_o shield_n of_o thy_o help_n and_o who_o be_v the_o sword_n of_o thy_o encellency_n 2._o because_o independent_o define_v a_o congregationall_a church_n a_o number_n of_o man_n covenant_v together_o to_o participate_v of_o god_n ordinance_n viz._n the_o hear_n of_o the_o word_n the_o receive_n of_o the_o sacrament_n etc._n etc._n in_o some_o one_o place_n every_o sabbath_n day_n but_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n can_v not_o meet_v in_o one_o place_n in_o such_o a_o fashion_n as_o every_o man_n will_v easy_o grant_v ergo_fw-la 3._o because_o the_o great_a sanedrim_n at_o jerusalem_n judge_v of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n throughout_o all_o the_o kingdom_n 4._o because_o the_o people_n of_o god_n beside_o their_o assembly_n in_o the_o temple_n which_o be_v a_o holy_a place_n common_a to_o all_o their_o nationall_n church_n have_v their_o particular_a convention_n in_o particular_a synagogue_n and_o however_o man_n may_v doubt_v of_o these_o synagogue_n whether_o they_o be_v exinstituto_fw-la divino_fw-la or_o not_o and_o of_o the_o time_n when_o first_o they_o begin_v yet_o can_v it_o not_o be_v deny_v but_o if_o they_o be_v not_o divinae_fw-la institutionis_fw-la they_o be_v at_o least_o divinae_fw-la approbationis_fw-la 1._o for_o they_o be_v not_o where_o condemn_v in_o scripture_n 2._o but_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n approve_v they_o in_o that_o they_o go_v ordinary_o to_o they_o dispute_v and_o expound_v scripture_n in_o they_o 3._o and_o submit_v themselves_o unto_o the_o order_n and_o discipline_n establish_v therein_o answ_n but_o the_o independent_o will_v say_v that_o the_o nationall_n church_n be_v abrogate_a in_o the_o new_a testament_n just_a 1._o then_o it_o be_v their_o part_n to_o point_v we_o to_o the_o place_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n where_o it_o be_v abrogate_a 2._o it_o can_v be_v abrogate_a in_o the_o new_a testament_n for_o those_o ordinance_n only_o of_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v abrogate_a in_o the_o new_a that_o belong_v unto_o the_o ceremonial_a law_n but_o to_o have_v a_o church_n or_o a_o church_n government_n more_o than_o congregationall_a per_fw-la se_fw-la or_o consider_v in_o itself_o belong_v not_o to_o the_o ceremonial_a law_n ergo_fw-la the_o major_n be_v certain_a i_o prove_v the_o minor_n 1._o for_o it_o may_v have_v be_v even_o in_o the_o state_n of_o integrity_n without_o the_o ceremonial_a law_n 2._o and_o so_o indeed_o it_o be_v after_o the_o fall_n before_o ever_o moses_n his_o ceremonial_a law_n be_v make_v 3._o and_o that_o be_v not_o mere_o ceremonial_a whereof_o we_o may_v evident_o give_v natural_a reason_n or_o that_o which_o be_v evident_o ground_v in_o natural_a reason_n or_o at_o least_o in_o so_o far_o as_o evident_o ground_v in_o natural_a reason_n since_o it_o be_v mere_o positive_a but_o suppose_v that_o there_o be_v a_o church_n of_o god_n to_o have_v a_o church_n or_o a_o church_n government_n more_o than_o congregationall_a and_o independent_a be_v evident_o ground_v in_o natural_a reason_n or_o a_o thing_n where_o evident_o we_o may_v give_v natural_a reason_n etc._n etc._n as_o we_o shall_v see_v hereafter_o ergo_fw-la 3._o only_o those_o thing_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v abrogate_a by_o the_o new_a which_o be_v shadow_n of_o thing_n to_o come_v viz._n of_o christ_n real_a or_o mistycall_a but_o such_o a_o church_n i._n e._n more_o than_o a_o congregationall_a independent_a church_n be_v not_o a_o shadow_n of_o thing_n to_o come_v in_o christ_n etc._n etc._n ergo_fw-la the_o major_n be_v certain_a for_o the_o thing_n command_v or_o approve_v in_o the_o old_a testament_n belong_v either_o to_o the_o moral_a or_o to_o the_o ceremonial_a or_o to_o the_o judicial_a law_n as_o for_o the_o thing_n of_o the_o first_o sort_n they_o be_v juris_fw-la naturalis_fw-la and_o consequent_o perpetual_a which_o be_v not_o abrogate_a and_o of_o themselves_o be_v not_o shadow_n of_o thing_n to_o come_v as_o for_o those_o of_o the_o judicial_a law_n of_o themselves_o they_o be_v not_o shadow_n but_o belong_v unto_o civil_a government_n which_o christ_n abrogate_a not_o since_o his_o kingdom_n be_v not_o of_o this_o world_n and_o if_o the_o jew_n have_v submit_v themselves_o to_o christ_n and_o have_v be_v free_v from_o external_a oppression_n it_o be_v probable_a that_o they_o shall_v have_v enjoy_v their_o own_o government_n according_a to_o the_o judicial_a law_n so_o far_o forth_o as_o judicial_a neither_o be_v it_o his_o aim_n to_o overthrow_v any_o worldly_a state_n policy_n or_o political_a law_n christ_n kingdom_n be_v and_o be_v compatible_a with_o all_o the_o kingdom_n and_o state_n of_o the_o world_n if_o they_o will_v not_o destroy_v it_o and_o he_o will_v let_v they_o reign_v over_o man_n body_n and_o purse_n if_o they_o can_v let_v he_o reign_v over_o their_o soul_n these_o that_o be_v command_v in_o the_o ceremonial_a law_n be_v indeed_o shadow_n but_o such_o be_v not_o a_o church_n more_o than_o congregationall_a to_o all_o these_o reason_n some_o have_v answer_v that_o they_o will_v have_v it_o prove_v by_o scripture_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n just_a 1._o but_o wherefore_o prove_v they_o their_o opinion_n by_o the_o old_a testament_n if_o they_o will_v not_o permit_v we_o the_o same_o liberty_n 2._o our_o former_a reason_n have_v sufficient_o prove_v that_o proof_n take_v from_o the_o old_a testament_n shall_v hold_v in_o all_o that_o which_o be_v not_o abrogate_a in_o the_o new_a 3._o if_o in_o this_o subject_a they_o reject_v the_o scripture_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n as_o the_o jew_n in_o all_o thing_n that_o of_o the_o new_a there_o will_v be_v two_o error_n diametrical_o opposite_a the_o one_o to_o the_o other_o they_o and_o the_o jew_n but_o to_o give_v they_o more_o contentment_n we_o will_v prove_v it_o likewise_o by_o text_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n and_o first_o from_o that_o of_o the_o act_n chapter_n 1_o 2_o 4_o and_o 5._o 2._o a_o church_n compound_v of_o 8120._o be_v more_o than_o a_o parishional_a or_o congregationall_a independent_a church_n but_o the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n act_v 1.15_o act_n 2.41_o act_n 4.4_o be_v a_o church_n compound_v of_o 8120._o yea_o of_o more_o as_o appeareth_z by_o act_n 5.14_o 26._o ergo_fw-la the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n be_v more_o sure_a then_o a_o parishional_a or_o congregationall_a independent_a church_n the_o major_a proposition_n be_v certain_a for_o the_o independent_o define_v their_o church_n which_o christ_n in_o his_o gospel_n have_v institute_v and_o to_o which_o he_o have_v commit_v the_o key_n of_o his_o kingdom_n the_o power_n of_o bind_v and_o lose_v the_o table_n and_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n the_o officer_n and_o censure_n of_o his_o church_n the_o administration_n of_o his_o public_a worship_n and_o ordinance_n caetus_fw-la a_o company_n of_o believer_n meet_v in_o one_o place_n every_o lord_n day_n for_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o holy_a ordinance_n of_o god_n to_o public_a edification_n the_o way_n of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n in_o new_a england_n the_o due_a right_n of_o presbytery_n chap._n 1._o prop._n 1._o from_o hence_o i_o argue_v thus_o the_o church_n whereunto_o can_v be_v apply_v this_o definition_n because_o of_o its_o multitude_n be_v more_o than_o a_o independent_a congregationall_a church_n but_o a_o church_n compound_v of_o 8120_o be_v a_o church_n whereunto_o can_v be_v apply_v this_o definition_n etc._n etc._n ergo._n the_o major_n be_v certain_a the_o minor_a i_o prove_v it_o for_o 8120._o can_v not_o meet_v together_o every_o lord_n day_n in_o one_o house_n etc._n etc._n for_o in_o those_o time_n christian_n have_v not_o yet_o any_o temple_n but_o gather_v together_o in_o particular_a house_n which_o can_v not_o receive_v they_o all_o 1._o because_o they_o be_v not_o ordinary_o spacious_a as_o great_a and_o rich_a man_n house_n for_o as_o the_o apostle_n say_v there_o be_v not_o many_o wise_a man_n after_o the_o flesh_n nor_o many_o mighty_a nor_o many_o noble_a call_v but_o the_o foolish_a weak_a base_a and_o despise_a thing_n of_o the_o world_n 1_o cor._n 1.26_o 27_o 28._o 2._o howbeit_o they_o have_v be_v spacious_a as_o rich_a man_n house_n yet_o can_v they_o not_o have_v receive_v such_o
lesser_a sanedrim_n unto_o that_o of_o the_o great_a one_o as_o have_v be_v prove_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n gillispy_a hearl_n etc._n etc._n art_n 1._o and_o 2._o 3._o the_o representative_a church_n or_o first_o general_n council_n at_o jerusalem_n have_v power_n and_o authority_n over_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o world_n since_o it_o give_v they_o a_o minister_n viz._n mathias_n ergo_fw-la all_o other_o church_n in_o their_o judgement_n and_o power_n of_o create_v such_o a_o minister_n be_v subject_a unto_o it_o object_n if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o it_o be_v a_o extraordinary_a council_n 1._o because_o it_o be_v indict_v and_o convocate_v by_o christ_n 2._o because_o it_o be_v compound_v of_o extraordinary_a person_n 3._o because_o the_o person_n receive_v extraordinary_a gift_n there_o 4._o because_o it_o be_v in_o the_o birth_n and_o beginning_n of_o the_o church_n reply_n the_o scripture_n say_v not_o that_o it_o be_v extraordinary_a as_o for_o the_o the_o proof_n i_o answer_v to_o the_o first_o 1._o that_o howbeit_o it_o be_v indict_v and_o convocate_v by_o christ_n yet_o be_v it_o not_o indict_v and_o convocate_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a way_n 2._o that_o a_o council_n may_v be_v extraordinary_o indict_v and_o convocate_v and_o yet_o be_v ordinary_a in_o its_o proceed_n 3._o that_o the_o indiction_n and_o convocation_n of_o a_o council_n be_v extrinsecall_v and_o antecedent_n to_o a_o council_n because_o that_o it_o be_v before_o that_o the_o council_n be_v and_o therefore_o can_v make_v it_o intrinsical_o extraordinary_a when_o it_o be_v existent_a so_o adam_n be_v make_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a way_n of_o earth_n and_o by_o creation_n and_o eva_n of_o adam_n rib_n and_o yet_o they_o be_v not_o extraordinary_a person_n in_o their_o nature_n existence_n conservation_n or_o accident_n 4._o neither_o read_v we_o that_o it_o be_v convocate_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a way_n 5._o neither_o can_v it_o be_v extraordinary_a because_o it_o be_v convocate_v by_o christ_n for_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n all_o that_o ever_o christ_n do_v to_o man_n shall_v have_v be_v extraordinary_a to_o the_o second_o i_o have_v already_o answer_v to_o the_o three_o i_o answer_v 1._o that_o the_o extraordinary_a gift_n be_v personal_a only_o and_o belong_v unto_o the_o material_a part_n of_o the_o council_n and_o not_o to_o the_o form_n thereof_o and_o therefore_o can_v not_o make_v it_o formal_o extraordinary_a in_o quality_n of_o a_o council_n for_o formal_a denomination_n be_v not_o take_v from_o the_o matter_n but_o from_o the_o form_n so_o if_o there_o be_v six_o or_o seven_o ecclesiastical_a person_n assemble_v to_o dinetogether_o we_o call_v it_o not_o a_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n 2._o i_o answer_v that_o these_o extra_fw-la ordinary_a gift_n be_v subsequent_a unto_o the_o council_n or_o at_o least_o to_o that_o ecclesiastical_a proceed_n in_o the_o election_n of_o mathias_n now_o that_o which_o be_v subsequent_a to_o any_o thing_n can_v denominate_v it_o formal_o or_o at_o least_o in_o the_o time_n precedent_n when_o the_o subject_n precede_v such_o a_o subsequent_a adjunct_n or_o circumstance_n see_v more_o concern_v this_o argument_n heretofore_o to_o the_o four_o i_o answer_v 1._o that_o all_o that_o which_o be_v in_o the_o birth_n and_o infancy_n of_o the_o church_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a for_o by_o that_o reason_n the_o preach_a of_o the_o gospel_n and_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n shall_v have_v be_v extraordinary_a 2._o thing_n that_o be_v ordinary_a must_v have_v a_o beginning_n 3._o and_o howsoever_o at_o their_o beginning_n they_o be_v extraordinary_a in_o respect_n of_o time_n because_o before_o their_o beginning_n they_o be_v not_o ordinary_a but_o out_o of_o the_o precedent_a order_n yet_o they_o be_v ordinary_a in_o respect_n of_o god_n ordinance_n or_o law_n which_o be_v ordinatio_fw-la rationis_fw-la that_o shall_v be_v ordinary_a in_o god_n church_n object_n if_o it_o be_v yet_o say_v that_o mathias_n be_v a_o extraordinary_a minister_n and_o his_o vocation_n extraordinary_a i_o answer_v that_o all_o that_o be_v true_a and_o yet_o in_o this_o extraordinary_a vocation_n there_o be_v something_o ordinary_a viz._n the_o nomination_n and_o election_n or_o admittance_n of_o he_o to_o be_v a_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n according_a to_o the_o independent_o opinion_n otherways_o their_o argument_n shall_v be_v very_o impertinent_a in_o prove_v from_o hence_o the_o power_n of_o the_o people_n in_o choose_v their_o minister_n that_o which_o there_o be_v extraordinary_a be_v not_o do_v by_o the_o council_n and_o therefore_o can_v not_o make_v the_o council_n extraordinary_n as_o much_o may_v be_v say_v of_o that_o council_n that_o create_v seven_o deacon_n for_o many_o church_n 5._o but_o principal_o we_o will_v urge_v that_o business_n of_o antioch_n in_o that_o difference_n betwixt_o st._n paul_n and_o barnabas_n on_o the_o one_o part_n and_o some_o pharisee_n convert_v to_o the_o christian_a faith_n on_o the_o other_o hereupon_o it_o be_v resolve_v that_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n shall_v go_v up_o to_o jernsalem_n unto_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n about_o that_o question_n v._o 2._o they_o be_v send_v by_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n v._o 3._o they_o be_v receive_v by_o the_o church_n and_o by_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n of_o the_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n v._o 4_o the_o assembly_n be_v gather_v at_o jerusalem_n the_o cause_n be_v hear_v v._o 4.5_o consider_v v._o 6._o discuss_v v._o 7._o voice_v v._o 7_o 8_o 9_o 10_o 11_o 12_o 13_o 14_o 15_o 16_o 17_o 18_o 19_o 20_o 21_o judge_v v._o 22._o the_o judgement_n or_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n or_o assembly_n send_v to_o antioch_n from_o the_o 22._o v._o to_o the_o 30._o read_v and_o obey_v by_o the_o church_n at_o antioch_n etc._n etc._n v._n 31._o here_o be_v the_o church_n of_o antioch_n judge_v by_o a_o superior_a church_n at_o jerusalem_n a_o appeal_n form_v or_o interject_v from_o the_o one_o to_o the_o other_o receive_v by_o the_o other_o judge_v and_o obey_v and_o therefore_o it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o there_o be_v some_o subordination_n betwixt_o these_o two_o church_n and_o that_o the_o one_o have_v authority_n over_o the_o other_o to_o this_o argument_n some_o answer_n 1._o that_o if_o it_o prove_v any_o thing_n it_o can_v only_o conclude_v a_o appeal_n from_o one_o parish_n church_n or_o particular_a congregation_n unto_o another_o since_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n and_o of_o jerusalem_n be_v no_o other_o than_o parish_n churches_n rep._n 1._o this_o answer_n can_v hold_v 1._o because_o no_o such_o thing_n can_v probable_o be_v collect_v out_o of_o this_o text_n or_o of_o any_o other_o in_o scripture_n and_o therefore_o it_o may_v be_v as_o easy_o reject_v by_o we_o as_o it_o be_v allege_v by_o they_o 2._o because_o hardly_o can_v it_o be_v prove_v that_o in_o those_o time_n church_n be_v divide_v into_o parish_n 3._o because_o a_o appeal_v 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procure_v her_o peace_n and_o to_o put_v all_o the_o church_n of_o god_n in_o confusion_n rather_o than_o in_o order_n 21._o be_v it_o credible_a that_o god_n shall_v have_v give_v his_o son_n to_o death_n to_o purchase_v we_o a_o order_n whereby_o all_o church_n may_v live_v in_o peace_n and_o unity_n and_o yet_o make_v they_o to_o quit_v all_o sacramental_a communion_n one_o with_o another_o have_v no_o common_a confession_n of_o faith_n nor_o any_o common_a platform_n of_o ecclesiastical_a government_n among_o they_o whether_o in_o the_o militant_a visible_a church_n there_o shall_v be_v a_o jndependency_n of_o church_n chap._n i._n the_o question_n state_v as_o m._n s._n of_o the_o first_o question_n make_v two_o so_o do_v he_o here_o of_o the_o second_o other_o two_o viz._n his_o three_o question_n for_o presbyterial_a government_n whereof_o he_o treat_v in_o the_o former_a chap._n and_o his_o 4._o question_v of_o independency_n whereof_o he_o treat_v in_o this_o his_o 4._o chap._n but_o they_o be_v not_o two_o question_n but_o two_o divers_a opinion_n about_o one_o and_o the_o same_o question_n so_o have_v commit_v this_o fault_n he_o commit_v again_o another_o much_o worse_o for_o he_o go_v on_o very_a confuse_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o his_o dispute_n and_o without_o ever_o state_v the_o question_n or_o declare_v what_o he_o mean_v by_o independency_n he_o go_v about_o to_o justify_v his_o independent_a government_n in_o a_o cataskevastique_a or_o assertive_a way_n wherefore_o to_o the_o end_n that_o the_o reader_n may_v the_o better_a judge_n both_o of_o his_o cataskevastique_n and_o of_o my_o anaskevastique_a way_n i_o will_v state_n the_o question_n and_o show_v what_o he_o have_v to_o prove_v and_o i_o to_o refute_v 1._o note_v therefore_o i_o pray_v thou_o courteous_a reader_n that_o independency_n be_v a_o sort_n of_o ecclesiastical_a government_n whereby_o every_o particular_a church_n be_v rule_v by_o its_o minister_n its_o doctor_n some_o 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charge_n of_o this_o government_n that_o can_v i_o quoth_v a._n s._n in_o effect_n page_n 38_o 39_o etc._n etc._n i_o have_v 10._o reason_n or_o objection_n against_o it_o a._n s._n i_o confess_v that_o m._n s._n brag_v of_o this_o his_o independent_a government_n as_o his_o word_n express_v but_o it_o be_v a_o manifest_a untruth_n that_o ever_o i_o brag_v of_o 16._o reason_n as_o m._n s._n most_o foolish_o represent_v i_o here_o it_o be_v a._n s._n his_o custom_n to_o bring_v reason_n and_o not_o to_o boast_v of_o they_o as_o it_o be_v m._n s._n his_o manner_n to_o boast_v and_o brag_v with_o high_a word_n without_o any_o reason_n at_o all_o and_o for_o answer_v to_o this_o i_o say_v there_o be_v no_o one_o such_o word_n or_o expression_n in_o all_o my_o book_n it_o be_v but_o m._n s._n his_o word_n and_o fiction_n m._n s._n i_o shall_v not_o spend_v time_n in_o transcribe_v these_o your_o reason_n but_o shall_v desire_v the_o reader_n though_o it_o may_v be_v some_o discourtesy_n unto_o you_o to_o take_v your_o book_n into_o his_o hand_n a._n s._n i_o be_o bind_v to_o your_o courtesy_n good_a sir_n that_o will_v not_o let_v my_o weak_a reason_n appear_v in_o front_n against_o your_o strong_a answer_n but_o since_o it_o be_v not_o m._n s._n his_o pleasure_n that_o they_o appear_v in_o his_o most_o worthy_a book_n i_o hope_v that_o the_o courteous_a reader_n shall_v not_o be_v offend_v if_o i_o make_v they_o together_o with_o his_o answer_n and_o a._n s._n his_o duplye_n appear_v here_o in_o i_o my_o argument_n then_o be_v such_o as_o follow_v chap._n ii_o reason_n against_o the_o independency_n of_o particular_a congregation_n 1._o the_o independent_a church_n have_v no_o sufficient_a remedy_n for_o miscarriage_n though_o never_o so_o gross_a no_o relief_n for_o wrongful_a sentence_n or_o person_n injure_v by_o they_o no_o powerful_a or_o effectual_a mean_n to_o reduce_v a_o church_n or_o church_n that_o fall_v into_o heresy_n or_o schism_n etc._n etc._n all_o that_o they_o can_v do_v be_v only_o to_o pronounce_v a_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o delinquent_n church_n as_o on_o the_o other_o side_n delinquent_n church_n may_v do_v against_o they_o 2._o this_o remedy_n be_v new_a neither_o be_v it_o know_v to_o the_o independent_a congregation_n before_o that_o emergent_a case_n in_o holland_n relate_v in_o the_o apologetical_a narration_n for_o if_o that_o church_n offend_v have_v know_v so_o much_o it_o be_v not_o credible_a that_o she_o will_v against_o all_o charity_n and_o the_o common_a order_n of_o all_o church_n have_v commit_v so_o great_a a_o scandal_n 3._o this_o remedy_n be_v not_o sufficient_a nor_o satisfactory_a because_o all_o church_n according_a to_o your_o tenet_n be_v equal_a in_o authority_n independent_a one_o of_o another_o and_o par_n in_o parem_fw-la non_fw-la habet_fw-la imperium_fw-la none_o have_v power_n or_o authority_n over_o his_o equal_a how_o then_o can_v any_o church_n bind_v another_o to_o any_o 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can_v not_o so_o easy_o meet_v together_o upon_o every_o occasion_n then_o there_o shall_v be_v no_o remedy_n at_o least_o not_o easy_a remedy_n 7._o what_o if_o the_o offence_n be_v small_a shall_v so_o many_o church_n for_o every_o trifle_n gather_v together_o and_o put_v themselves_o to_o so_o great_a cost_n and_o trouble_v 8._o what_o if_o the_o church_n shall_v differ_v in_o their_o judgement_n one_o from_o another_o in_o such_o a_o case_n shall_v they_o all_o by_o schism_n separate_v themselves_o one_o from_o another_o 9_o this_o sort_n of_o government_n give_v no_o more_o power_n or_o authority_n to_o a_o thousand_o church_n over_o one_o then_o to_o a_o tinker_n yea_o to_o a_o hangman_n over_o a_o thousand_o for_o he_o may_v desire_v they_o all_o out_o of_o charity_n to_o give_v a_o account_n of_o their_o judgement_n in_o case_n he_o be_v offend_v
by_o they_o neither_o see_v i_o what_o more_o our_o brethren_n grant_v to_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o world_n over_o one_o but_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n be_v subject_a to_o none_o of_o these_o inconvenience_n for_o the_o collective_a or_o combine_a eldership_n have_v a_o authoritative_a power_n all_o man_n and_o church_n thereof_o be_v bind_v by_o law_n and_o covenant_n to_o submit_v themselves_o thereunto_o every_o man_n know_v their_o set_a time_n of_o meeting_n wherein_o sundry_a matter_n be_v dispatch_v and_o all_o thing_n carry_v by_o plurality_n of_o voice_n without_o any_o schism_n or_o separation_n 10._o this_o government_n viz._n jedependency_n be_v a_o power_n wherein_o the_o party_n be_v judge_v if_o he_o will_v and_o so_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o judge_n suspend_v upon_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o party_n judge_v which_o be_v most_o ridiculous_a without_o any_o example_n in_o civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n a_o judgement_n not_o very_o 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same_o punishment_n upon_o they_o all_o 13._o not_o only_o this_o discipline_n can_v be_v easy_o put_v in_o execution_n in_o great_a kingdom_n as_o england_n wherein_o all_o the_o church_n offend_v can_v so_o easy_o meet_v together_o but_o also_o 14._o because_o the_o person_n offend_v after_o he_o have_v represent_v his_o grievance_n unto_o the_o church_n and_o that_o church_n have_v receive_v satisfaction_n he_o may_v go_v to_o another_o and_o so_o continual_o in_o infinitum_fw-la to_o the_o world_n end_n evermore_o take_v those_o church_n for_o the_o party_n that_o judge_v it_o which_o be_v most_o absurd_a and_o foolish_a 15._o what_o if_o the_o party_n offend_v be_v poor_a and_o have_v not_o the_o mean_n to_o post_v up_o and_o down_o from_o neigbour-church_n to_o neighbour-church_n to_o pray_v they_o to_o make_v the_o offend_a church_n to_o give_v a_o account_n of_o her_o judgement_n much_o less_o to_o attend_v upon_o their_o uncertain_a conveniency_n here_o will_v be_v find_v true_a pauper_fw-la ubique_fw-la iaceo_fw-la whereas_o in_o presbyterial_a government_n the_o party_n offend_v may_v be_v easy_o redress_v and_o get_v satisfaction_n as_o not_o have_v need_n so_o to_o post_v up_o and_o down_o to_o be_v at_o so_o great_a charge_n or_o to_o attend_v their_o conveniency_n for_o by_o a_o simple_a appeal_v he_o may_v bind_v the_o church_n offend_v to_o appear_v at_o the_o day_n appoint_v 16._o what_o if_o there_o shall_v fall_v out_o a_o hundred_o such_o offence_n in_o a_o short_a time_n must_v so_o many_o church_n evermore_o gather_v together_o for_o every_o one_o of_o they_o apart_o 17._o what_o if_o church_n be_v poor_a and_o can_v be_v at_o so_o great_a expense_n then_o in_o that_o case_n it_o shall_v seem_v there_o be_v no_o order_n to_o meet_v with_o offence_n i_o may_v add_v these_o follow_a reason_n 18._o this_o independency_n make_v all_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n like_v so_o many_o scopae_fw-la dissolutae_fw-la loose_a broom_n that_o have_v no_o tie_n or_o band_n to_o hold_v they_o together_o and_o so_o destroy_v the_o unity_n of_o the_o militant_a church_n 19_o the_o very_a word_n independency_n apply_v to_o man_n how_o much_o more_o the_o thing_n signify_v thereby_o shall_v be_v odious_a to_o all_o christian_a ear_n as_o be_v proper_a to_o god_n almighty_a how_o proud_a &_o abominable_a be_v this_o expression_n we_o seven_o man_n who_o constitute_v this_o church_n we_o will_v not_o depend_v on_o all_o the_o church_n of_o this_o world_n we_o will_v not_o depend_v on_o any_o create_v ecclesiastical_a power_n yea_o not_o upon_o all_o the_o angel_n in_o heaven_n and_o man_n upon_o earth_n but_o will_v be_v independent_o and_o have_v other_o to_o depend_v upon_o we_o 20._o if_o so_o what_o be_v the_o cause_n that_o you_o oppose_v the_o king_n majesty_n absolute_a or_o independent_a power_n in_o state_n matter_n true_o this_o be_v only_o secular_a can_v be_v so_o dangerous_a as_o the_o other_o viz._n as_o you_o for_o this_o only_a may_v be_v prejudicial_a to_o our_o body_n or_o state_n but_o you_o may_v kill_v million_o of_o soul_n neither_o be_v the_o king_n authority_n more_o limit_v in_o the_o state_n then_o you_o be_v in_o the_o church_n 21._o what_o will_v you_o that_o wherever_o there_o be_v 7._o or_o 8._o of_o you_o combine_v together_o to_o make_v up_o a_o church_n you_o shall_v depend_v on_o no_o man_n but_o have_v a_o independent_a and_o absolute_a power_n to_o bring_v into_o the_o kingdom_n whatever_o heresy_n you_o please_v to_o blaspheme_v god_n and_o so_o vi_fw-la irresistibili_fw-la with_o the_o arminian_o to_o go_v to_o hell_n if_o so_o god_n have_v mercy_n on_o you_o but_o it_o may_v be_v say_v that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n may_v hinder_v they_o but_o m.s._n will_v answer_v 1._o that_o he_o shall_v not_o punish_v any_o man_n for_o religion_n 2._o that_o the_o civil_a power_n be_v of_o another_o sort_n then_o ecclesiastical_a 3._o what_o if_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v not_o a_o protestant_n or_o what_o if_o he_o be_v a_o profane_a man_n 4._o howbeit_o he_o be_v a_o protestant_n and_o a_o good_a christian_a yet_o shall_v it_o follow_v that_o the_o church-power_n be_v neither_o sufficient_a nor_o perfect_a in_o svo_fw-la genere_fw-la since_o it_o must_v have_v recourse_n unto_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n which_o be_v of_o another_o nature_n and_o extra_fw-la hoc_fw-la genus_fw-la chap._n iii_o m.s._n his_o evasion_n refute_v and_o my_o argument_n make_v good_a and_o first_o those_o that_o he_o bring_v against_o the_o three_o argument_n m.s._n answer_v not_o all_o nor_o any_o considerable_a number_n of_o my_o argument_n as_o he_o confess_v himself_o but_o scratch_v at_o a_o few_o of_o they_o whereby_o he_o weaken_v they_o not_o but_o overthrow_v the_o government_n of_o all_o state_n that_o of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n the_o practice_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o apostolic_a church_n and_o the_o fundament_n of_o independent_a government_n itself_o as_o god_n willing_a we_o shall_v see_v hereafter_o the_o first_o of_o my_o reason_n that_o he_o snap_v at_o be_v the_o 3._o viz._n this_o remedy_n viz._n of_o non-communion_n be_v not_o sufficient_a nor_o satisfactory_a because_o all_o church_n according_a to_o your_o tenet_n be_v equal_a in_o authority_n independent_a one_o of_o another_o and_o par_fw-fr in_o parem_fw-la non_fw-la habet_fw-la imperium_fw-la none_o have_v power_n or_o authority_n over_o his_o equal_a how_o then_o can_v any_o church_n bind_v any_o other_o to_o any_o such_o account_n but_o out_o of_o its_o freewill_n as_o a_o party_n may_v do_v to_o its_o party_n m._n s._n 1._o suppose_v that_o course_n which_o the_o apologist_n insist_v upon_o be_v not_o in_o the_o eye_n of_o reason_n a_o mean_n sufficient_a to_o such_o a_o purpose_n yet_o if_o it_o be_v a_o mean_n which_o god_n have_v authorize_v for_o the_o effect_v it_o it_o will_v do_v the_o deed_n a.s._n it_o seemth_v that_o m.s._n will_v fain_o enter_v into_o the_o list_n against_o reason_n itself_o but_o he_o must_v know_v that_o god_n ordinance_n and_o reason_n be_v not_o opposite_a one_o to_o another_o since_o he_o who_o be_v the_o author_n of_o nature_n be_v the_o author_n of_o grace_n also_o neither_o as_o author_n of_o nature_n sight_n he_o against_o himself_o as_o author_n of_o grace_n 2._o it_o be_v a_o maxim_n of_o popery_n and_o lutheranism_n to_o oppose_v nature_n &_o grace_n 3._o christ_n and_o the_o apostle_n serve_v themselves_o of_o natural_a reason_n in_o scripture_n 4._o and_o out_o of_o the_o case_n of_o supernatural_a revelation_n above_o it_o which_o can_v be_v contrary_a unto_o it_o it_o must_v be_v believe_v 5_o he_o suppose_v that_o independency_n and_o withdraw_a and_o renounce_v all_o christian_a communion_n with_o such_o church_n until_o they_o repent_v be_v a_o sufficient_a mean_n authorize_v by_o god_n which_o hitherto_o appear_v not_o yea_o
state_n in_o such_o a_o case_n 2._o the_o minister_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n must_v proceed_v spiritual_o against_o all_o delinquent_n and_o impenitent_a person_n as_o the_o minister_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n do_v against_o they_o according_a to_o god_n word_n unless_o such_o a_o proceed_n by_o abrogate_a in_o the_o new_a testament_n 3._o they_o must_v do_v as_o m._n s._n have_v teach_v we_o as_o they_o do_v against_o particular_a person_n in_o commensurate_v the_o punishment_n to_o the_o sin_n i_o e._n they_o must_v proceed_v by_o particular_a admonition_n and_o censure_n against_o lesser_a sin_n in_o private_a or_o before_o the_o presbytery_n by_o suspension_n from_o the_o lord_n table_n against_o great_a sin_n by_o public_a suspension_n or_o lesser_a excommunication_n against_o great_a sin_n and_o by_o the_o great_a excommunication_n against_o the_o great_a sin_n 4._o m._n s._n confess_v that_o the_o apologist_n in_o their_o way_n do_v little_o less_o a._n s._n if_o so_o than_o they_o do_v a_o little_a worse_o than_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o so_o they_o quit_v a_o little_a m._n s._n his_o own_o rule_n whereby_o he_o will_v they_o to_o proceed_v as_o against_o particular_a person_n 5._o if_o all_o this_o suffice_v not_o it_o be_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n part_v to_o proceed_v against_o they_o as_o troubler_n of_o the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n and_o consequent_o of_o the_o christian_a state_n and_o not_o to_o permit_v they_o to_o erect_v a_o new_a sect_n as_o it_o be_v ordinary_o practise_v among_o the_o independent_o of_o new_a england_n 6._o they_o must_v be_v punish_v for_o their_o perjury_n and_o for_o the_o breach_n of_o their_o covenant_n but_o none_o of_o those_o punishment_n can_v be_v inflict_v but_o after_o sufficient_a conviction_n at_o least_o moral_o in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la and_o such_o punishment_n be_v the_o fit_a for_o they_o after_o such_o a_o conviction_n when_o they_o pertinacious_o resist_v the_o spirit_n of_o god_n for_o such_o man_n fear_v more_o the_o gibbet_n than_o hell-fire_n what_o you_o say_v of_o your_o second_o chapter_n it_o be_v sufficient_o answer_v what_o you_o say_v of_o church_n that_o they_o have_v need_v to_o take_v heed_n how_o they_o choose_v man_n for_o their_o guardian_n etc._n etc._n if_o by_o those_o guardian_n you_o mean_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n it_o be_v not_o wise_o say_v of_o you_o if_o church-minister_n they_o must_v choose_v such_o as_o will_v delate_v pertinacious_a sinner_n to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n to_o your_o second_o question_n what_o if_o in_o the_o session_n etc._n etc._n answ_n 1._o what_o if_o it_o be_v so_o in_o your_o assembly_n or_o synod_n 2._o if_o it_o be_v any_o inferior_a ecclesiastical_a judicatory_a they_o must_v remit_v it_o to_o a_o superior_a ever_o till_o they_o come_v to_o some_o wherein_o the_o vote_n may_v preponderate_v and_o if_o in_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a viz._n in_o a_o nationall_n assembly_n the_o vote_n preponderate_v not_o concern_v the_o excommunication_n of_o such_o a_o church_n which_o be_v very_o extraordinary_a she_o can_v be_v excommunicate_v and_o yet_o if_o her_o opinion_n or_o sin_n be_v condemn_v the_o combine_a eldership_n may_v inflict_v some_o lesser_a spiritual_a punishment_n and_o if_o such_o a_o church_n continue_v still_o pertinacious_a the_o civil_a magistrate_n may_v proceed_v against_o she_o in_o a_o civil_a way_n as_o we_o have_v say_v neither_o be_v this_o a_o compliance_n with_o papist_n in_o quality_n of_o papist_n but_o in_o so_o far_o forth_o as_o they_o agree_v with_o scripture_n 1._o for_o so_o proceed_v the_o church_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n 2._o so_o proceed_v the_o church_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n in_o the_o time_n of_o good_a emperor_n as_o under_o constantine_n the_o great_a theodosius_n etc._n etc._n 3._o so_o proceed_v they_o at_o geneva_n 4._o so_o in_o the_o netherlands_o 5._o so_o the_o independent_o of_o new-england_n 6._o so_o shall_v m.s._n rather_o do_v then_o to_o tolerate_v open_a blasphemer_n of_o the_o bless_a name_n of_o god_n 7._o dare_v thou_o m._n s._n so_o open_o plead_v in_o favour_n of_o paganism_n of_o all_o sort_n of_o heresy_n and_o mischief_n and_o for_o all_o sort_n of_o impunity_n for_o they_o all_o 8._o the_o truth_n fall_v not_o to_o the_o dust_n in_o such_o a_o case_n but_o sin_n be_v punish_v but_o not_o in_o such_o a_o degree_n as_o it_o shall_v be_v to_o the_o second_o inconveniency_n that_o i_o object_n against_o the_o independent_o §_o 4._o viz._n that_o the_o independent_a church_n offend_v if_o they_o judge_v the_o offend_a church_n they_o shall_v be_v both_o judge_n and_o party_n m._n s._n repli_v p._n 80._o §_o 3._o when_o your_o combine_a eldership_n proceed_v against_o a_o particular_a church_n among_o you_o upon_o offence_n take_v be_v not_o this_o eldership_n as_o well_o party_n as_o judge_n a.s._n my_o argument_n impli_v the_o solution_n of_o this_o objection_n viz._n that_o the_o combine_a eldership_n can_v be_v party_n in_o such_o a_o cause_n because_o it_o have_v a_o authoritative_a power_n over_o the_o particular_a church_n howbeit_o spiritual_a and_o ministerial_a as_o the_o parliament_n over_o particular_a judicatories_n in_o the_o kingdom_n but_o party_n look_v one_o to_o another_o as_o par_fw-fr parem_fw-la and_o not_o as_o superior_a inferiorem_fw-la 2._o neither_o can_v any_o man_n or_o consociation_n take_v his_o ordinary_a judge_n to_o party_n unless_o he_o have_v some_o particular_a exception_n against_o he_o 3._o i_o propound_v you_o the_o same_o question_n concern_v the_o particular_a tribe_n and_o the_o synagogicall_a judicatories_n among_o the_o people_n of_o god_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n when_o the_o great_a sanedrim_n take_v offence_n at_o they_o or_o at_o their_o judgement_n whether_o the_o great_a sanedrim_n be_v not_o both_o judge_n and_o party_n or_o rather_o whether_o under_o the_o notion_n of_o offence_n take_v it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v consider_v as_o a_o party_n and_o under_o the_o notion_n of_o authoritative_a power_n as_o a_o judge_n 4._o i_o propound_v it_o of_o the_o state_n whether_o the_o parliament_n may_v not_o be_v consider_v as_o party_n be_v offend_v at_o any_o particular_a consociation_n and_o as_o judge_n in_o quality_n of_o the_o representative_a body_n of_o the_o whole_a kingdom_n or_o if_o it_o be_v evermore_o needful_a that_o some_o particular_a person_n or_o person_n compeare_v in_o quality_n of_o party_n against_o particular_a consociation_n or_o town_n 5._o in_o your_o particular_a congregation_n may_v not_o your_o church_n under_o divers_a notion_n be_v consider_v as_o judge_n and_o party_n or_o may_v every_o delinquent_n take_v your_o whole_a presbytery_n or_o congregation_n to_o party_n 6._o do_v not_o the_o arminian_o serve_v themselves_o of_o this_o independent_a argument_n against_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n to_o decline_v the_o synod_n power_n and_o be_v not_o both_o they_o and_o this_o their_o argument_n condemn_v by_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o synod_n as_o very_o absurd_a and_o unapt_a 7._o this_o argument_n conclude_v against_o all_o the_o superior_a power_n of_o this_o world_n again_o m.s._n 1._o tell_v we_o that_o this_o authoritative_a power_n of_o combine_a presbytery_n over_o congregation_n be_v not_o from_o above_o a._n s._n but_o we_o have_v prove_v it_o to_o be_v from_o above_o and_o from_o god_n as_o author_n of_o nature_n and_o of_o grace_n see_v the_o question_n concern_v the_o subordination_n of_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n 2._o core_n dathan_n and_o abiram_n object_v no_o less_o against_o moses_n and_o aaron_n yea_o as_o much_o may_v be_v object_v against_o god_n himself_o who_o be_v judge_n and_o party_n and_o jesus_n christ_n who_o be_v party_n and_o yet_o shall_v judge_v the_o quick_a and_o the_o dead_a for_o if_o criminal_n may_v so_o escape_v they_o will_v not_o fail_v to_o take_v their_o judge_n evermore_o for_o party_n m._n s._n to_o hold_v that_o all_o those_o that_o have_v a_o authoritative_a power_n over_o man_n may_v lawful_o in_o virtue_n of_o such_o a_o power_n be_v both_o judge_n and_o party_n be_v to_o exalt_v all_o manner_n of_o tyranny_n etc._n etc._n by_o law_n for_o so_o in_o church_n and_o state_n man_n invest_v with_o such_o a_o power_n may_v be_v their_o own_o carver_n and_o serve_v themselves_o of_o the_o estate_n liberty_n and_o life_n of_o those_o that_o be_v under_o they_o how_o and_o when_o and_o as_o oft_o as_o they_o listen_v add_v but_o the_o consequence_n be_v false_a ergo_fw-la so_o be_v the_o antecedent_n a.s._n i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n for_o they_o have_v not_o a_o absolute_a but_o a_o limit_a power_n according_a to_o law_n and_o not_o to_o their_o own_o particular_a but_o public_a will_n or_o in_o quality_n of_o public_a person_n who_o will_n be_v declare_v in_o or_o restrain_v according_a to_o law_n neither_o command_v carolus_n the_o kingdom_n qua_fw-la carolus_n but_o
church_n be_v schismatical_a for_o some_o diversity_n of_o opinion_n for_o that_o belong_v rather_o to_o heresy_n then_o to_o schism_n nor_o 2._o that_o it_o be_v a_o schism_n because_o that_o it_o be_v tolerate_v or_o not_o tolerate_v for_o toleration_n be_v a_o consequent_a of_o schism_n and_o extrinsecall_v to_o it_o the_o true_a reason_n wherefore_o it_o be_v a_o schism_n and_o they_o schismatical_a be_v because_o it_o be_v a_o breach_n of_o charity_n in_o that_o they_o separate_v themselves_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o true_a church_n yea_o and_o from_o all_o the_o true_a church_n in_o the_o world_n both_o in_o sacramental_a communion_n and_o that_o of_o discipline_n neither_o be_v it_o a_o schism_n because_o that_o it_o be_v a_o separation_n from_o presbyterial_a church_n precise_o under_o the_o notion_n of_o presbyterial_a but_o of_o true_a and_o orthodox_n church_n which_o press_v they_o no_o way_n to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o their_o conscience_n but_o m._n s._n in_o despite_n of_o all_o reason_n will_v prove_v that_o i_o can_v convict_v the_o independent_o of_o schism_n and_o that_o by_o this_o his_o most_o seriall_a argument_n which_o here_o i_o put_v in_o form_n with_o all_o the_o force_n it_o can_v have_v he_o that_o know_v not_o what_o be_v schism_n can_v convict_v the_o independent_o of_o schism_n but_o a._n s._n know_v not_o what_o be_v schism_n ergo_fw-la a._n s._n can_v convict_v the_o independent_o of_o schism_n the_o major_n be_v certain_a the_o minor_a he_o prove_v thus_o he_o that_o know_v not_o what_o be_v the_o church_n know_v not_o what_o be_v schism_n or_o a_o rent_n of_o the_o church_n for_o rectum_fw-la est_fw-la index_n svi_fw-la et_fw-la obliqui_fw-la and_o entia_fw-la privativa_fw-la cognoscuntur_fw-la ex_fw-la suis_fw-la positivis_fw-la etc._n etc._n but_o a._n s._n know_v not_o what_o be_v the_o church_n for_o he_o say_v we_o know_v not_o wherein_o consist_v its_o essence_n p._n 21._o ergo_fw-la a._n s._n i_o answer_v to_o the_o first_o argument_n that_o the_o minor_a be_v false_a as_o appeareth_z by_o the_o definition_n that_o i_o have_v give_v of_o it_o both_o in_o my_o annotation_n upon_o the_o apologetical_a narration_n in_o my_o answer_n unto_o a_o libel_n of_o c._n c._n and_o he_o retofore_o somewhere_o in_o this_o book_n against_o the_o which_o m._n s._n have_v nothing_o to_o reply_v to_o the_o confirmation_n of_o the_o minor_a i_o answer_v that_o if_o by_o the_o word_n know_v m._n s._n mean_v a_o distinct_a knowledge_n of_o the_o essential_a part_n of_o the_o church_n the_o major_n be_v false_a for_o schism_n be_v not_o a_o rent_v of_o the_o essential_a part_n of_o the_o church_n or_o of_o its_o transcendentall_a or_o metaphysical_a unity_n but_o of_o its_o integrant_fw-la part_n and_o integrant_fw-la unity_n for_o the_o first_o can_v be_v destroy_v so_o long_o as_o it_o be_v a_o true_a church_n and_o schismatical_a church_n may_v have_v their_o transcendent_a unity_n verity_n and_o goodness_n howsoever_o they_o lose_v their_o integrant_fw-la unity_n verity_n and_o goodness_n if_o by_o the_o word_n know_v he_o mean_v any_o knowledge_n of_o the_o church_n either_o confuse_a or_o distinct_a whereby_o we_o may_v know_v the_o church_n by_o her_o external_a cause_n her_o integrant_fw-la part_n her_o accident_n etc._n etc._n the_o minor_a be_v false_a for_o not_o only_a a._n s._n but_o little_a child_n at_o school_n have_v such_o a_o knowledge_n of_o the_o church_n which_o they_o learn_v in_o their_o catechism_n and_o by_o any_o such_o confuse_v or_o distinct_a knowledge_n of_o the_o church_n by_o her_o cause_n accident_n or_o effect_n etc._n etc._n we_o may_v confuse_o or_o distinct_o know_v what_o be_v schism_n howbeit_o not_o essential_o as_o for_o the_o confirmation_n of_o the_o minor_a by_o my_o word_n i_o say_v not_o there_o that_o i_o know_v not_o what_o the_o church_n be_v confuse_o or_o distinct_o by_o her_o cause_n integrant_fw-la part_n her_o accident_n etc._n etc._n but_o that_o we_o know_v not_o distinct_o the_o essence_n of_o thing_n as_o distinguish_v from_o their_o accident_n as_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v if_o he_o look_v in_o my_o book_n for_o there_o in_o that_o page_n 21._o i_o speak_v in_o formal_a term_n of_o that_o which_o be_v essential_a to_o the_o church_n now_o if_o m._n s._n pretend_v to_o any_o such_o profound_a knowledge_n of_o thing_n we_o must_v confess_v he_o to_o be_v a_o other_o epistemon_n doctor_n du_fw-fr molin_n professor_n in_o divinity_n at_o sedan_n hold_v the_o same_o tenet_n in_o his_o thesis_n de_fw-fr summo_fw-la bono_n so_o do_v the_o other_o professor_n of_o divinity_n there_o for_o they_o say_v that_o no_o creature_n neither_o in_o this_o life_n nor_o in_o the_o life_n to_o come_v yea_o not_o the_o very_a angel_n know_v the_o essence_n of_o any_o thing_n and_o from_o thence_o they_o conclude_v that_o we_o shall_v not_o see_v the_o essence_n of_o god_n in_o the_o life_n to_o come_v the_o which_o assertion_n howsoever_o i_o confess_v it_o to_o be_v true_a de_fw-la hominibus_fw-la viatoribus_fw-la yet_o can_v i_o not_o believe_v it_o to_o be_v true_a de_fw-fr angelis_n viatoribus_fw-la and_o much_o less_o de_fw-fr angelis_n aut_fw-la hominibus_fw-la comprehensoribus_fw-la m._n s._n shall_v have_v do_v better_a to_o have_v answer_v my_o reason_n that_o i_o bring_v there_o pag._n 21._o then_o so_o against_o the_o light_n of_o his_o conscience_n to_o scratch_v at_o a_o know_a truth_n neither_o can_v i_o believe_v he_o to_o be_v so_o ignorant_a as_o not_o to_o know_v and_o acknowledge_v the_o truth_n of_o it_o in_o himself_o however_o out_o of_o desire_n of_o contestation_n he_o manifest_v the_o contrary_a but_o m._n s._n to_o the_o end_n he_o seem_v not_o altogether_o impertinent_a prove_v it_o by_o a_o argument_n take_v ab_fw-la exemplo_fw-la or_o by_o a_o imperfect_a induction_n if_o it_o be_v not_o a_o pari_fw-la or_o from_o they_o altogether_o i_o can_v believe_v say_v he_o that_o he_o shall_v perfect_o know_v the_o nature_n of_o darkness_n that_o be_v ignorant_a of_o what_o belong_v to_o the_o nature_n of_o light_n nor_o that_o he_o shall_v know_v what_o a_o schism_n or_o rend_a mean_n that_o know_v not_o what_o belong_v to_o the_o nature_n of_o unity_n and_o entireness_n of_o the_o body_n for_o rectum_fw-la est_fw-la index_n svi_fw-la &_o obliqui_fw-la and_o entia_fw-la privativa_fw-la cognoscuntur_fw-la ex_fw-la suis_fw-la positivis_fw-la a.s._n we_o know_v not_o perfect_o the_o nature_n of_o light_n and_o consequent_o we_o know_v not_o perfect_o the_o nature_n of_o darkness_n if_o to_o know_v perfect_o be_v take_v for_o a_o distinct_a knowledge_n of_o its_o essence_n as_o distingnish_v from_o its_o accident_n only_o we_o know_v light_v imperfect_o by_o its_o external_a cause_n by_o its_o effect_n by_o its_o subject_n adjunct_n etc._n etc._n and_o not_o essential_o and_o as_o for_o your_o first_o maxim_n rectum_fw-la est_fw-la index_n svi_fw-la &_o obliqui_fw-la it_o be_v true_a sed_fw-la non_fw-la per_fw-la distinctum_fw-la aliquem_fw-la conceptum_fw-la svi_fw-la essentialem_fw-la as_o philosopher_n say_v your_o second_o maxim_n whosoever_o you_o imitate_v in_o that_o expression_n be_v improper_a for_o privation_n be_v not_o proper_o entia_fw-la privativa_fw-la but_o entium_fw-la privationes_fw-la not_o essence_n or_o being_n but_o negation_n of_o be_v neither_o be_v darkness_n any_o thing_n but_o a_o negation_n of_o something_o viz._n of_o light_n so_o poverty_n be_v not_o a_o thing_n but_o a_o want_n of_o some_o thing_n viz._n of_o riches_n 2._o but_o i_o will_v pardon_v he_o this_o mistake_n howbeit_o it_o be_v true_a yet_o follow_v it_o not_o that_o if_o i_o know_v a_o privation_n by_o the_o positive_a form_n which_o it_o destroy_v that_o i_o know_v that_o form_n essential_o by_o its_o essence_n and_o in_o itself_o i_o know_v the_o form_n only_o accidental_o or_o by_o its_o extrinsecall_a cause_n or_o by_o its_o existence_n 3._o item_n so_o we_o conceive_v privation_n under_o the_o notion_n of_o negation_n or_o destruction_n of_o the_o existence_n rather_o than_o of_o the_o essence_n of_o thing_n or_o at_o most_o as_o destruction_n of_o the_o existence_n primario_fw-la and_o of_o the_o essence_n secundariò_fw-la if_o they_o be_v destroy_v by_o privation_n neither_o can_v i_o believe_v that_o the_o fire_n burn_v and_o destroy_v immediate_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o man_n or_o any_o part_n thereof_o for_o the_o reasonable_a soul_n be_v spiritual_a and_o can_v be_v burn_v so_o be_v the_o other_o part_n of_o his_o essence_n viz._n his_o materia_fw-la prima_fw-la incombustible_a yea_o natural_o incorruptible_a and_o as_o for_o the_o physical_a essence_n of_o the_o whole_a man_n when_o m._n s._n shall_v declare_v wherein_o it_o consist_v i_o shall_v dispute_v with_o he_o but_o silly_a man_n with_o this_o babble_a logic_n know_v he_o not_o that_o accident_n be_v never_o define_v by_o their_o essential_a
i_o maintain_v that_o no_o other_o according_a to_o god_n word_n shall_v be_v tolerate_v the_o independent_o maintain_v that_o they_o shall_v be_v tolerate_v i_o reply_v if_o so_o why_o not_o other_o also_o to_o this_o m._n s._n can_v say_v nothing_o but_o will_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o it_o and_o that_o presbyterianism_n according_a to_o this_o reason_n can_v be_v tolerate_v i_o have_v prove_v the_o contrary_a and_o be_o ready_a to_o grant_v that_o if_o it_o be_v a_o sect_n as_o they_o be_v or_o if_o the_o church_n and_o state_n judge_v it_o to_o be_v repugnant_a to_o god_n word_n it_o shall_v not_o be_v tolerate_v but_o so_o have_v they_o not_o do_v yea_o they_o have_v declare_v the_o contrary_a the_o parliament_n in_o their_o covenant_n and_o the_o assembly_n in_o give_v thanks_o to_o the_o scot_n commissioner_n for_o their_o book_n 9_o and_o to_o be_v short_a i_o adjure_v thou_o m._n s._n by_o the_o relic_n of_o thy_o conscience_n and_o pray_v all_o man_n fear_v god_n to_o declare_v whether_o or_o not_o in_o take_v of_o the_o covenant_n and_o in_o swear_v so_o solemn_o according_a to_o their_o power_n to_o put_v down_o popery_n prelacy_n and_o all_o schism_n they_o intend_v to_o tolerate_v they_o all_o as_o m._n s._n maintain_v they_o shall_v do_v m._n s._n ask_v i_o what_o opinion_n donandae_fw-la sint_fw-la ecclesiâ_fw-la a._n s._n if_o the_o question_n be_v what_o opinion_n be_v to_o be_v approve_v in_o the_o church_n in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la my_o answer_n be_v only_o such_o as_o be_v approve_v by_o public_a ecclesiastical_a authority_n according_a to_o god_n ordinary_a providence_n if_o the_o question_n be_v what_o opinion_n be_v to_o be_v tolerate_v then_o either_o you_o mean_v to_o be_v tolerate_v in_o the_o church_n by_o public_a ecclesiastical_a authority_n or_o in_o private_a person_n if_o the_o first_o i_o answer_v none_o but_o such_o as_o god_n word_n tolerate_v and_o the_o church_n judge_v to_o be_v true_a or_o not_o repugnant_a to_o the_o word_n if_o the_o second_o i_o answer_v that_o that_o depend_v upon_o the_o circumstance_n of_o time_n person_n place_n and_o other_o etc._n etc._n 1._o no_o false_a opinion_n be_v to_o be_v tolerate_v by_o any_o positive_a toleration_n consent_n or_o approbation_n 2._o if_o man_n err_v for_o want_v of_o light_n much_o may_v be_v tolerate_v negatiuè_fw-la i._n e._n in_o not_o proceed_v severe_o against_o they_o till_o they_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v in_o case_n they_o give_v no_o offence_n to_o the_o church_n of_o god_n but_o if_o they_o give_v offence_n they_o must_v be_v punish_v condign_o and_o after_o a_o sufficient_a moral_a conviction_n they_o may_v be_v punish_v condign_o both_o by_o the_o church_n and_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n if_o they_o continue_v and_o become_v pertinacious_a and_o because_o i_o add_v that_o the_o less_o the_o difference_n be_v the_o great_a be_v the_o schism_n m._n s._n pag._n 89._o answer_v 5._o tell_v we_o that_o the_o man_n speak_v of_o i_o know_v not_o what_o schism_n be_v a._n s._n it_o a_o strange_a thing_n that_o have_v give_v so_o clear_a a_o definition_n of_o schism_n he_o shall_v so_o doubt_v m._n s._n either_o grant_v my_o definition_n to_o be_v true_a and_o so_o grant_v that_o i_o know_v it_o or_o deny_v it_o and_o i_o shall_v god_n willing_a make_v it_o good_a but_o it_o be_v but_o a_o small_a matter_n what_o i_o know_v or_o know_v not_o whether_o i_o be_v ignorant_a or_o not_o for_o that_o be_v no_o way_n material_a or_o to_o the_o purpose_n the_o less_o i_o know_v and_o the_o more_o ignorant_a i_o be_o the_o more_o easy_a be_v it_o for_o such_o a_o epistemon_n as_o m._n s._n be_v to_o refute_v i_o come_v to_o the_o point_n i_o pray_v thou_o good_a m._n s_o the_o reason_n of_o this_o my_o assertion_n be_v this_o viz._n the_o less_o the_o difference_n be_v betwixt_o independency_n and_o the_o true_a discipline_n that_o be_v to_o be_v establish_v whether_o it_o be_v presbyterial_a government_n or_o any_o other_o the_o great_a be_v the_o breach_n of_o charity_n and_o ecclesiastical_a communion_n in_o make_v so_o great_a a_o schism_n and_o separation_n from_o the_o true_a church_n of_o god_n for_o so_o small_a a_o matter_n if_o it_o be_v so_o you_o yourselves_o must_v make_v a_o separation_n among_o yourselves_o for_o every_o trifle_n wherein_o you_o differ_v in_o judgement_n either_o in_o doctrine_n discipline_n or_o holiness_n of_o life_n one_o from_o another_o which_o you_o do_v not_o or_o if_o you_o be_v mind_v to_o do_v so_o you_o must_v make_v all_o man_n in_o your_o church_n of_o your_o mind_n in_o every_o opinion_n you_o have_v or_o else_o i_o pray_v tell_v i_o for_o what_o opinion_n you_o be_v mind_v to_o make_v a_o schism_n and_o what_o not_o a._n s._n his_o three_o reason_n god_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n grant_v no_o toleration_n of_o divers_a religion_n or_o discipline_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v grant_v in_o the_o new_a since_o the_o new_a testament_n require_v no_o less_o union_n among_o christian_n than_o the_o old_a among_o jew_n m._n s._n p._n 89._o answ_n 1._o 1._o deny_v the_o consequence_n and_o the_o proof_n bring_v by_o i_o he_o grant_v so_o my_o conclusion_n must_v hold_v only_o he_o say_v it_o be_v ill_o apply_v but_o it_o be_v apply_v by_o way_n of_o argumentation_n whereof_o he_o will_v have_v do_v well_o to_o have_v show_v the_o defect_n m._n s._n pag._n 90._o and_o 91._o answ_n 4._o yet_o do_v it_o not_o require_v that_o he_o that_o be_v strong_a shall_v cudgel_v he_o that_o be_v weak_a a._n s._n god_n be_v thank_v you_o need_v not_o much_o complain_v of_o any_o cudgel_n that_o you_o have_v yet_o receive_v since_o this_o parliament_n neither_o need_v you_o to_o fear_v it_o in_o time_n to_o come_v if_o you_o force_v not_o a_o new_a religion_n upon_o the_o kingdom_n against_o their_o will_n or_o if_o you_o will_v submit_v unto_o lawful_a authority_n and_o not_o make_v your_o inconsiderable_a number_n the_o judge_n of_o all_o this_o business_n against_o the_o law_n of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o what_o you_o say_v in_o your_o second_o chapter_n we_o have_v show_v how_o absurd_a it_o be_v and_o how_o horrible_a impiety_n will_v follow_v upon_o your_o tenet_n m._n s._n p._n 89._o in_o his_o 1._o and_o 2._o answer_n to_o the_o consequence_n be_v that_o it_o follow_v not_o dare_v you_o say_v in_o matter_n of_o knowledge_n authority_n and_o power_n ero_n similis_fw-la altissimo_fw-la remember_v the_o fall_n of_o the_o son_n of_o the_o morning_n a._n s._n we_o pretend_v not_o to_o be_v like_a unto_o god_n in_o these_o consideration_n in_o go_v against_o the_o command_n as_o lucifer_n but_o in_o holiness_n as_o he_o be_v holy_a which_o can_v be_v without_o obedience_n as_o in_o the_o good_a angel_n now_o you_o confess_v yourselves_o that_o god_n have_v only_o command_v one_o discipline_n and_o government_n in_o the_o church_n under_o the_o new_a testament_n how_o be_v we_o then_o lucifer_n in_o desire_v this_o only_a and_o no_o other_o to_o be_v admit_v of_o in_o the_o church_n how_o do_v you_o then_o plead_v for_o the_o introduction_n of_o any_o other_o than_o the_o true_a discipline_n if_o baal_n be_v god_n serve_v he_o but_o if_o jehovah_n be_v god_n serve_v he_o so_o if_o independency_n be_v the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n let_v it_o be_v admit_v and_o no_o other_o and_o so_o of_o presbyterial_a and_o all_o other_o government_n we_o impose_v none_o but_o desire_v that_o the_o true_a discipline_n may_v be_v seek_v for_o and_o afterward_o impose_v by_o the_o parliament_n and_o the_o church_n by_o each_o of_o they_o according_a to_o their_o vocation_n m._n s._n his_o second_o answer_n p._n 89._o be_v that_o he_o deny_v the_o antecedent_n of_o my_o argument_n or_o rather_o distinguish_v it_o viz._n that_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n it_o be_v not_o grant_v in_o terminis_fw-la but_o in_o sensu_fw-la or_o by_o consequence_n for_o this_o must_v be_v the_o other_o part_n of_o his_o distinction_n because_o he_o prohibit_v all_o manner_n of_o violence_n and_o oppression_n and_o charge_v the_o rich_a not_o to_o enslave_v the_o poor_a a._n s._n reply_n 1._o this_o be_v no_o law_n of_o ecclesiastical_a government_n or_o of_o toleration_n of_o heresy_n schism_n or_o divers_a discipline_n in_o the_o church_n but_o a_o moral_a law_n and_o a_o part_n of_o the_o six_o commandment_n in_o not_o offer_v violence_n to_o the_o weak_a and_o of_o the_o eight_o thou_o shall_v not_o steal_v forbid_v all_o sort_n of_o extortion_n against_o the_o poor_a now_o you_o be_v not_o poor_a neither_o be_v there_o any_o man_n either_o of_o the_o parliament_n or_o synod_n about_o to_o take_v your_o purse_n m._n s._n yet_o the_o equity_n and_o spirit_n of_o such_o law_n extend_v to_o spirituall_n a._n
non-communion_n or_o schism_n so_o your_o supposition_n be_v false_a viz._n that_o i_o suppose_v that_o the_o ground_n of_o such_o a_o refusal_n of_o communion_n consist_v only_o in_o difference_n of_o judgement_n for_o i_o suppose_v that_o the_o ground_n of_o it_o may_v be_v a_o breach_n of_o charity_n and_o in_o particular_a person_n a_o vicious_a life_n 2._o m._n s._n shall_v have_v do_v well_o to_o declare_v we_o here_o in_o particular_a what_o be_v the_o nature_n or_o particularity_n of_o this_o difference_n betwixt_o we_o and_o they_o for_o we_o can_v in_o practicis_fw-la dispute_n accurate_o upon_o generality_n so_o abstract_a from_o all_o particularity_n if_o it_o be_v reply_v that_o it_o be_v because_o we_o admit_v vicious_a person_n unto_o our_o communion_n i_o have_v answer_v it_o in_o my_o annotation_n whereunto_o he_o pretend_v to_o answer_v he_o shall_v have_v refute_v my_o reason_n here_o as_o also_o sundry_a other_o in_o master_n rutherford_n book_n whereby_o he_o demonstrate_v how_o ridiculous_a and_o frivolous_a this_o pretext_n be_v neither_o be_v it_o needful_a that_o i_o shall_v repeal_v they_o to_o swell_v up_o a_o book_n with_o they_o m._n s._n his_o second_o answer_n if_o there_o be_v so_o many_o and_o great_a difference_n among_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n as_o you_o speak_v of_o and_o yet_o paul_n not_o way_n persuade_v the_o major_a part_n among_o they_o to_o cast_v our_o cut_v off_o or_o suppress_v the_o underling_n party_n but_o exhort_v they_o to_o mutual_a communion_n why_o do_v not_o you_o the_o like_a a._n s._n we_o cast_v you_o not_o out_o nor_o off_o but_o you_o run_v away_o we_o exhort_v you_o but_o you_o will_v not_o obey_v you_o slight_a and_o contemn_v your_o mother_n that_o beget_v you_o and_o when_o the_o house_n of_o god_n be_v to_o be_v reform_v you_o will_v have_v all_o thing_n according_a to_o your_o fancy_n or_o you_o will_v be_v go_v and_o renounce_v your_o mother_n o_o what_o sort_n of_o child_n and_o domestic_n of_o the_o faith_n be_v you_o m._n s._n his_o three_o answer_n he_o deny_v the_o assumption_n viz._n that_o there_o be_v great_a difference_n among_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n then_o betwixt_o the_o independent_o and_o our_o church_n a._n s._n i_o prove_v it_o for_o both_o they_o differ_v in_o article_n of_o faith_n some_o of_o they_o deny_v the_o resurrection_n the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o law_n and_o sacrament_n some_o of_o they_o join_v the_o law_n with_o the_o gospel_n and_o circumcision_n with_o baptism_n and_o in_o charity_n some_o cry_v up_o some_o apostle_n and_o pastor_n and_o reject_v of_o other_o other_o of_o the_o same_o church_n be_v of_o contrary_a mind_n and_o will_n without_o any_o separation_n in_o externall_n communion_n either_o in_o sacrament_n or_o government_n for_o any_o thing_n we_o read_v in_o scripture_n a._n s._n 11._o reason_n in_o substance_n be_v this_o that_o the_o opinion_n of_o our_o brethren_n symbolize_v much_o jump_v in_o conceit_n and_o that_o they_o sympathize_v with_o the_o donatist_n who_o separate_v themselves_o from_o other_o church_n under_o pretext_n that_o they_o be_v not_o so_o holy_a as_o their_o own_o neither_o be_v their_o discipline_n unlike_a to_o that_o of_o the_o convent_v and_o monastery_n among_o the_o papist_n which_o profess_v all_o one_o doctrine_n but_o be_v independent_a one_o upon_o another_o etc._n etc._n m._n s._n answer_n 1._o symbolisa_n theologia_n non_fw-la est_fw-la argumentativa_fw-la a._n s._n but_o this_o argument_n be_v take_v a_o simili_fw-la and_o hold_v quia_fw-la similium_fw-la eadem_fw-la est_fw-la ratio_fw-la viz._n in_o eo_fw-la in_fw-la quo_fw-la similia_fw-la sunt_fw-la now_o they_o be_v blame_v in_o separate_a themselves_o from_o the_o rest_n of_o those_o that_o profess_v the_o same_o doctrine_n as_o if_o they_o be_v holy_a than_o the_o rest_n ergo_fw-la so_o be_v the_o independent_o to_o be_v blame_v for_o the_o same_o reason_n his_o instance_n be_v childish_a and_o fond_a for_o angel_n and_o devil_n agree_v not_o in_o that_o which_o be_v unblamable_a in_o devil_n for_o that_o agreement_n shall_v be_v a_o impeachment_n both_o to_o their_o holiness_n and_o happiness_n 2._o neither_o agree_v a._n s._n with_o nestorius_n in_o make_v way_n to_o any_o heresy_n of_o his_o own_o as_o nestorius_n wherein_o he_o be_v unblamable_a 3._o no_o more_o be_v it_o to_o the_o purpose_n that_o you_o be_v not_o like_a to_o monk_n for_o their_o paunch_n idleness_n or_o in_o their_o building_n howbeit_o some_o of_o they_o be_v as_o lean_v and_o as_o busy_a in_o their_o own_o way_n as_o any_o of_o you_o independent_o can_v be_v in_o you_o neither_o be_v it_o a_o sin_n to_o be_v fat_a only_o i_o compare_v you_o with_o they_o in_o that_o wherein_o we_o all_o blame_v they_o viz._n in_o separate_n themselves_o from_o other_o under_o pretext_n of_o great_a holiness_n to_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o three_o point_n i_o reply_v that_o i_o make_v not_o this_o comparison_n betwixt_o the_o donatist_n and_o the_o apologist_n as_o m._n s._n say_v here_o but_o betwixt_o they_o and_o all_o those_o that_o be_v of_o the_o independent_o opinion_n and_o so_o to_o his_o first_o answer_n i_o reply_v that_o however_o some_o of_o the_o apologist_n of_o who_o alone_o i_o speak_v not_o have_v not_o church_n yet_o have_v they_o the_o same_o opinion_n concern_v the_o separation_n of_o their_o church_n from_o other_o that_o profess_v the_o same_o doctrine_n and_o that_o under_o pretext_n that_o they_o be_v holy_a than_o the_o rest_n second_o m._n s._n answer_v that_o neither_o in_o substance_n nor_o truth_n do_v it_o touch_v any_o of_o they_o or_o their_o opinion_n 1._o for_o they_o do_v not_o separate_v from_o other_o church_n but_o only_o in_o such_o opinion_n and_o practice_n wherein_o they_o can_v get_v leave_n of_o their_o conscience_n to_o join_v with_o they_o a._n s._n i_o have_v prove_v that_o it_o touch_v they_o in_o truth_n and_o as_o for_o his_o proof_n the_o donatist_n do_v just_a so_o whereas_o m._n s._n say_v that_o they_o of_o the_o presbytery_n differ_v in_o opinion_n and_o practice_n one_o from_o another_o a.s._n 1_o it_o be_v true_a but_o that_o be_v in_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o very_o material_a 2._o or_o if_o they_o be_v material_a they_o be_v particular_a opinion_n of_o particular_a man_n that_o be_v not_o know_v not_o of_o whole_a church_n nor_o approve_v by_o whole_a church_n 3._o and_o howbeit_o some_o of_o they_o though_o very_o few_o differ_v in_o some_o practice_n which_o be_v not_o material_a yet_o be_v it_o not_o so_o much_o they_o that_o make_v these_o difference_n as_o that_o they_o be_v compel_v by_o other_o to_o suffer_v they_o as_o they_o have_v declare_v themselves_o in_o their_o letter_n send_v to_o the_o assembly_n 4._o that_o small_a difference_n breed_v no_o schism_n or_o sect_n among_o they_o but_o they_o entertain_v mutual_a communion_n together_o both_o in_o sacrament_n and_o government_n and_o they_o admit_v one_o another_o unto_o their_o synodall_n and_o sacramental_a communion_n so_o do_v not_o independent_a church_n among_o themselves_o nor_o with_o we_o m._n s._n 2._o argument_n for_o this_o his_o assertion_n be_v because_o a._n s._n himself_o and_o his_o party_n do_v separate_v themselves_o from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n because_o they_o think_v not_o that_o church_n to_o be_v so_o holy_a as_o their_o own_o a._n s._n 1._o we_o separate_v not_o ourselves_o from_o the_o romish_a church_n because_o of_o great_a or_o less_o holiness_n in_o our_o church_n or_o in_o particular_a person_n then_o in_o they_o but_o because_o we_o conceive_v that_o the_o romish_a church_n err_v in_o fundamental_n 2._o not_o only_o commit_v but_o also_o 3._o teach_v idolatry_n and_o 4._o compel_v man_n against_o their_o conscience_n to_o commit_v and_o profess_v it_o 5._o neither_o do_v we_o separate_v from_o the_o papist_n but_o they_o separate_v from_o we_o and_o do_v cast_v we_o out_o of_o their_o church_n and_o persecute_v we_o to_o death_n so_o that_o neither_o can_v we_o entertain_v communion_n with_o they_o without_o lose_v both_o body_n and_o soul_n 6._o neither_o yet_o separate_v we_o from_o any_o church_n that_o hold_v the_o same_o doctrine_n with_o we_o 7._o neither_o believe_v we_o that_o any_o church_n hold_v the_o same_o doctrine_n with_o we_o can_v moral_o fall_v into_o idolatry_n or_o urge_v we_o to_o be_v actor_n against_o our_o conscience_n in_o any_o idolatrous_a act_n and_o this_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n independent_o may_v have_v in_o our_o church_n 8._o we_o pray_v you_o also_o to_o declare_v unto_o we_o what_o heresy_n idolatry_n or_o great_a vice_n you_o see_v teach_v or_o approve_v of_o among_o we_o that_o shall_v compel_v you_o to_o quit_v our_o church_n as_o we_o find_v among_o the_o papist_n and_o then_o your_o argument_n
s._n it_o be_v more_o like_a that_o learned_a man_n of_o great_a ability_n shall_v do_v so_o than_o ignorant_o that_o have_v not_o the_o ability_n the_o devil_n be_v learneder_n than_o they_o all_o and_o yet_o sustein_v as_o absurd_a opinion_n divine_a plato_n as_o learned_a as_o they_o defend_v the_o community_n of_o wife_n of_o child_n and_o good_n zeno_n do_v maintain_v that_o there_o be_v no_o move_n at_o all_o so_o do_v sundry_a great_a philosopher_n maintain_v great_a error_n and_o great_a divine_n as_o origine_fw-la and_o sundry_a of_o the_o father_n strange_o mistake_v sundry_a thing_n ifthey_a be_v so_o learned_a i_o may_v say_v of_o they_o what_o a_o other_o say_v of_o a_o very_a learned_a man_n vbi_fw-la bene_fw-la nemo_fw-la meliùs_fw-la ubi_fw-la malè_fw-la nemo_fw-la pejùs_fw-la where_o they_o do_v well_o no_o man_n do_v better_a where_o they_o do_v ill_a no_o man_n do_v worse_a for_o optima_fw-la cum_fw-la degenerant_fw-la fiunt_fw-la pessima_fw-la as_o the_o 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juncture_n of_o time_n to_o come_v must_v they_o plead_v that_o they_o be_v without_o sin_n i_o think_v not_o that_o such_o praise_n will_v so_o have_v puff_v they_o up_o as_o to_o have_v make_v they_o thus_o brag_v in_o their_o write_n for_o if_o they_o answer_v not_o my_o commendation_n of_o they_o they_o affront_v i_o and_o then_o i_o shall_v pray_v they_o not_o to_o be_v proud_a of_o my_o praise_n but_o to_o merit_v they_o and_o i_o shall_v entreat_v other_o to_o pardon_v my_o mistake_a charity_n bring_v not_o my_o charity_n by_o any_o mean_n for_o a_o argument_n against_o i_o believe_v i_o pray_v you_o that_o praise_n signify_v rather_o the_o virtue_n that_o shall_v be_v and_o that_o we_o expect_v of_o man_n then_o that_o that_o evermore_o be_v if_o you_o and_o they_o will_v not_o be_v such_o as_o i_o take_v you_o to_o be_v you_o must_v give_v i_o leave_v to_o take_v you_o for_o such_o as_o you_o be_v as_o for_o the_o protostant_n in_o france_n their_o example_n of_o sue_v for_o 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open_v a_o door_n to_o all_o heresy_n and_o corruption_n that_o satan_n can_v invent_v it_o be_v worse_o by_o consequence_n a_o hundred_o time_n than_o either_o popery_n or_o arminianism_n be_v formal_o as_o for_o your_o eminent_a desert_n and_o merit_n 1._o i_o know_v they_o not_o 2._o as_o some_o independent_o may_v merit_v and_o deserve_v well_o of_o the_o state_n so_o may_v other_o demerit_v as_o much_o 3._o but_o no_o man_n can_v merit_v a_o licentiousness_n to_o be_v wicked_a and_o to_o bring_v a_o mischief_n upon_o the_o state_n and_o church_n both_o such_o as_o a_o toleration_n of_o all_o sect_n and_o heresy_n will_v bring_v if_o you_o can_v submit_v unto_o a_o common_a government_n of_o the_o church_n as_o other_o and_o live_v more_o humano_fw-la it_o be_v against_o all_o reason_n that_o you_o shall_v be_v tolerate_v neither_o must_v religion_n be_v frame_v according_a to_o your_o accommodation_n as_o you_o pretend_v but_o your_o accommodation_n rather_o according_a to_o religion_n to_o your_o demand_n about_o those_o that_o be_v of_o my_o judgement_n they_o need_v not_o to_o be_v suitor_n for_o a_o toleration_n for_o the_o discipline_n that_o they_o suffer_v for_o be_v already_o establish_v by_o law_n as_o for_o the_o rest_n of_o this_o section_n it_o contain_v only_o his_o proud_a judgement_n of_o my_o reason_n and_o some_o foolery_n which_o i_o hold_v it_o not_o worth_a the_o while_n to_o take_v notice_n of_o to_o your_o second_o i_o answer_v that_o those_o of_o who_o i_o say_v that_o sundry_a of_o themselves_o can_v not_o deny_v it_o etc._n etc._n be_v not_o the_o five_o apologist_n but_o other_o independent_a minister_n and_o some_o of_o the_o able_a among_o they_o who_o i_o do_v entertain_v upon_o that_o discourse_n and_o m._n s._n himself_o tell_v we_o suppose_v that_o course_n or_o mean_n which_o the_o apologist_n insist_v upon_o be_v not_o in_o the_o eye_n of_o reason_n or_o humane_a conjecture_n a_o mean_a sufficient_a for_o such_o a_o purpose_n yet_o if_o it_o be_v a_o mean_n which_o god_n have_v authorize_v for_o the_o effect_n it_o will_v do_v the_o deed_n here_o he_o mistrust_v the_o reason_n and_o appeal_v to_o god_n word_n whereof_o we_o see_v nothing_o here_o 3._o m._n s._n say_v that_o they_o have_v show_v it_o from_o god_n word_n but_o god_n and_o man_n it_o seem_v be_v not_o yet_o agree_v to_o have_v it_o so_o general_o see_v as_o be_v to_o be_v desire_v a._n s._n neither_o be_v it_o show_v neither_o can_v it_o appear_v nam_fw-la non_fw-la entis_fw-la nulla_fw-la sunt_fw-la accidentia_fw-la thing_n that_o be_v not_o have_v no_o accident_n neither_o can_v they_o be_v see_v and_o what_o man_n can_v agree_v unto_o i_o know_v not_o for_o some_o time_n they_o dream_v that_o they_o see_v thing_n that_o be_v not_o but_o sure_o i_o be_o that_o god_n will_v never_o agree_v that_o it_o be_v according_a to_o his_o word_n and_o what_o you_o say_v of_o your_o hope_n all_o the_o king_n of_o the_o world_n can_v hinder_v you_o to_o hope_n for_o no_o man_n be_v without_o all_o hope_n but_o the_o damn_a soul_n in_o hell_n only_o this_o i_o say_v that_o of_o your_o hope_n you_o may_v say_v o_o spes_fw-la inane_n m._n s._n to_o that_o where_o i_o say_v the_o refusal_n of_o a_o toleration_n will_v help_v to_o confirm_v the_o church_n and_o the_o people_n in_o the_o truth_n he_o answer_v that_o he_o know_v not_o in_o what_o truth_n therefore_o i_o tell_v he_o that_o i_o mean_v the_o truth_n of_o our_o discipline_n and_o the_o truth_n how_o intolerable_a be_v a_o toleration_n of_o sect_n and_o of_o so_o dangerous_a a_o sect_n and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o that_o if_o ever_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o church_n or_o the_o people_n see_v so_o venerable_a and_o learned_a a_o assembly_n condescend_v to_o such_o a_o absurd_a opinion_n and_o demand_v they_o will_v not_o believe_v that_o it_o be_v so_o absurd_a as_o it_o be_v for_o many_o man_n be_v lead_v by_o authority_n and_o take_v many_o thing_n upon_o the_o 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will_v overthrow_v all_o other_o government_n and_o add_v faxit_fw-la deus_fw-la a._n s._n 1._o my_o word_n contain_v no_o pprophecy_n but_o a_o consequence_n 2._o i_o say_v not_o that_o the_o independent_a government_n which_o be_v no_o government_n but_o aequivocè_fw-la as_o canis_fw-la coelestibus_fw-la be_v canis_fw-la but_o that_o the_o toleration_n of_o independent_a government_n will_v overthrow_v all_o government_n 3._o in_o the_o 2._o §_o of_o that_o page_n 110._o he_o acknowledge_v his_o mistake_n because_o of_o my_o follow_a word_n and_o so_o this_o order_n by_o necessary_a consequence_n will_v breed_v all_o sort_n of_o disorder_n to_o this_o m.s._n answer_v 1._o that_o it_o will_v not_o breed_v the_o disorder_n of_o oppress_v conscientious_a man_n for_o conscience_n sake_n a._n s._n 1._o all_o sort_n of_o disorder_n must_v not_o be_v take_v pro_fw-la singulis_fw-la generum_fw-la sed_fw-la pro_fw-la generibus_fw-la singulorum_fw-la 2._o the_o syncategorema_n all_o there_o signify_v only_o a_o great_a number_n of_o disorder_n 3._o no_o more_o do_v the_o presbyterian_a order_n oppress_v conscientious_a man_n or_o do_v any_o thing_n that_o you_o tell_v there_o 4._o howbeit_o it_o breed_v not_o those_o disorder_n which_o you_o mention_v there_o yet_o it_o breed_v sundry_a other_o disorder_n which_o we_o have_v already_o demonstrate_v 5._o it_o oppress_v conscientious_a man_n 1._o in_o hinder_v they_o to_o get_v their_o conscience_n full_o satisfy_v in_o a_o high_a indicatory_a 2._o by_o a_o absolute_a authority_n of_o seven_o or_o eight_o idle_a yea_o peradventure_o debauch_a knave_n who_o howbeit_o their_o opinion_n be_v never_o so_o heretical_a and_o their_o practice_n never_o so_o tyrannical_a will_v not_o submit_v but_o oppress_v man_n better_o than_o themselves_o compel_v they_o to_o be_v go_v from_o their_o congregation_n and_o so_o undo_v they_o 3._o in_o make_v they_o to_o attend_v peradventure_o a_o year_n or_o two_o before_o they_o will_v meet_v with_o other_o church_n to_o have_v their_o unjust_a judgement_n judge_v and_o reverse_v of_o which_o practice_n see_v sundry_a very_o strange_a story_n in_o master_n edward_n book_n who_o know_v they_o intus_fw-la &_o in_fw-la cute_fw-la which_o one_o of_o their_o sect_n write_v in_o their_o favour_n not_o many_o day_n ago_o do_v ingenuous_o confess_v they_o make_v not_o indeed_o man_n to_o walk_v sundry_a mile_n for_o what_o they_o may_v have_v at_o home_n but_o they_o sundry_a time_n oppress_v they_o at_o home_n and_o undo_v they_o for_o what_o they_o may_v have_v get_v within_o a_o few_o mile_n for_o the_o hundred_o part_n of_o the_o loss_n that_o they_o suffer_v at_o home_n whereof_o see_v master_n edward_n his_o antapologia_fw-la 2._o m._n s._n deni_v that_o they_o may_v run_v from_o church_n to_o church_n but_o i_o prove_v it_o for_o if_o other_o church_n be_v independent_a of_o all_o authoritative_a power_n they_o may_v admit_v they_o and_o howbeit_o they_o can_v not_o run_v 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independent_o reason_n howbeit_o we_o bring_v no_o reason_n at_o all_o against_o they_o will_v evident_o show_v how_o sleight_v their_o opinion_n and_o how_o fond_a their_o conceit_n be_v m._n s._n suppose_v the_o opinion_n maintain_v in_o the_o latter_a part_n of_o the_o second_o chapter_n be_v wave_v and_o such_o a_o coercive_a power_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n as_o a._n s._n contend_v for_o allow_v in_o the_o magistrate_n hand_n yet_o that_o any_o man_n shall_v plead_v for_o the_o draw_v of_o his_o sword_n against_o those_o man_n etc._n etc._n and_o a_o little_a after_o that_o any_o i_o say_v on_o this_o side_n of_o malignancy_n shall_v consult_v the_o sorrow_n trouble_n disgrace_n suppression_n ruin_n of_o man_n so_o holy_a so_o harmless_a of_o such_o eminent_a desert_n in_o the_o cause_n of_o religion_n state_n kingdom_n i_o think_v shall_v exceed_v the_o line_n of_o humanity_n and_o be_v think_v some_o inspiration_n or_o suggestion_n from_o the_o great_a enemy_n of_o mankind_n a._n s._n 1._o this_o discourse_n seem_v to_o imply_v two_o argument_n first_o man_n very_o holy_a very_o harmless_a of_o very_o eminent_a desert_n in_o the_o cause_n of_o religion_n state_n kingdom_n shall_v not_o receive_v sorrow_n trouble_n disgrace_n suppression_n or_o ruin_n but_o we_o the_o independent_o be_v such_o ergo._n m._n s._n his_o second_o argument_n they_o who_o plead_v for_o the_o draw_v of_o the_o sword_n consult_v sorrow_n etc._n etc._n against_o so_o holy_a man_n etc._n etc._n have_v some_o inspiration_n from_o the_o devil_n or_o great_a enemy_n of_o mankind_n but_o a._n s._n plead_v for_o the_o draw_v of_o the_o sword_n etc._n etc._n ergo._n to_o the_o first_o argument_n i_o answer_v 1._o in_o general_n that_o i_o be_o sorry_a that_o this_o m._n s._n will_v hazard_v the_o independent_o honour_v in_o so_o weak_a a_o argument_n for_o if_o i_o deny_v the_o minor_a they_o will_v present_o cry_v out_o that_o i_o offend_v their_o pretend_a power_n of_o piety_n their_o harmlessenesse_n etc._n etc._n and_o therefore_o not_o to_o offend_v they_o i_o will_v not_o say_v that_o they_o be_v not_o such_o only_o i_o say_v that_o whosoever_o plead_v for_o a_o toleration_n of_o all_o damnable_a and_o most_o detestable_a heretic_n such_o as_o deny_v the_o trinity_n the_o incarnation_n of_o the_o son_n of_o god_n his_o mediatorship_n who_o call_v he_o a_o knave_n and_o a_o impostor_n who_o die_v for_o we_o all_o as_o this_o m._n s._n do_v here_o in_o his_o book_n can_v neither_o be_v holy_a nor_o harmless_a 2._o i_o deny_v the_o major_n if_o it_o be_v take_v absolute_o without_o any_o distinction_n for_o if_o the_o righteous_a turn_n from_o his_o righteousness_n and_o do_v the_o thing_n that_o be_v wicked_a he_o shall_v die_v therein_o ezek._n 33.28_o so_o they_o be_v not_o to_o suffer_v for_o their_o harmlessenesse_n and_o eminent_a gift_n but_o for_o something_o worse_o 3._o i_o must_v say_v that_o the_o minor_a smell_v somewhat_o the_o pharisee_fw-mi who_o seem_v just_a in_o his_o own_o eye_n and_o to_o say_v nothing_o else_o we_o can_v produce_v you_o a_o great_a number_n of_o independent_o and_o independent_a minister_n no_o better_o than_o other_o mortal_a man_n to_o the_o second_o argument_n i_o answer_v to_o the_o major_a 1._o they_o have_v some_o inspiration_n etc._n etc._n if_o they_o consult_v sorrow_n against_o they_o for_o their_o holiness_n it_o be_v true_a but_o the_o minor_n be_v false_a for_o i_o never_o plead_v any_o sorrow_n against_o they_o for_o their_o holiness_n neither_o be_o i_o mind_v to_o plead_v any_o sorrow_n or_o the_o draw_n of_o the_o sword_n against_o they_o but_o only_o against_o such_o who_o be_v turbulent_a and_o trouble_v the_o church_n and_o state_n who_o erect_v church_n in_o despite_n of_o the_o parliament_n or_o overthrow_v the_o king_n the_o parliament_n and_o all_o civil_a magistrate_n authority_n about_o the_o church_n and_o religion_n i_o will_v not_o answer_v unto_o this_o independent_o injury_n when_o he_o call_v all_o those_o malignant_n who_o plead_v for_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n as_o i_o do_v and_o man_n inspire_v by_o the_o devil_n only_o this_o i_o say_v that_o if_o such_o man_n who_o curb_v so_o the_o king_n the_o parliament_n and_o all_o civil_a magistrate_n authority_n in_o such_o a_o manner_n shall_v be_v protect_v and_o maintain_v by_o they_o as_o they_o pretend_v they_o shall_v be_v and_o vaunt_v they_o will_v be_v which_o yet_o i_o hope_v shall_v never_o be_v that_o turdus_fw-la sibi_fw-la malum_fw-la cacat_fw-la and_o that_o they_o be_v worthy_a to_o drink_v such_o as_o they_o brew_v m._n s._n the_o independent_o have_v such_o a_o considerable_a strength_n if_o not_o of_o evidence_n yet_o of_o reason_n for_o what_o they_o practise_v and_o profess_v a._n s._n ergo_fw-la i_o know_v not_o what_o i_o think_v he_o will_v infer_v they_o shall_v not_o suffer_v sorrow_n but_o be_v tolerate_v a._n s._n 1._o
we_o bring_v passage_n of_o scripture_n to_o prove_v our_o opinion_n that_o they_o answer_v we_o that_o they_o be_v of_o extraordinary_a thing_n and_o practice_n unless_o the_o scripture_n â—â—clare_v they_o to_o be_v such_o or_o that_o they_o go_v beyond_o the_o general_a rule_n command_v in_o scripture_n 3._o because_o here_o the_o proceed_n be_v conform_v to_o those_o that_o we_o have_v in_o other_o scripture_n as_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n etc._n etc._n as_o for_o the_o reason_n to_o the_o first_o i_o answer_v that_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v that_o it_o be_v extraordinary_o gather_v 2._o and_o howbeit_o it_o have_v be_v extraordinary_o gather_v yet_o the_o proceed_n therein_o may_v have_v be_v and_o be_v ordinary_a 3._o because_o the_o gather_n or_o indict_v of_o a_o assembly_n be_v extrinsecall_v unto_o a_o assembly_n and_o antecedent_n to_o it_o and_o therefore_o can_v make_v it_o intrinsical_o extraordinary_a in_o its_o proceed_n 4._o it_o be_v only_o circumstantial_a which_o can_v make_v it_o extraordinary_a quoad_fw-la substantiam_fw-la sed_fw-la quoad_fw-la modum_fw-la and_o that_o modus_fw-la also_o be_v extrinsecall_v and_o not_o so_o much_o a_o manner_n of_o be_v of_o the_o assembly_n as_o of_o he_o or_o they_o who_o indict_v or_o gather_v it_o to_o the_o 2._o extraordinary_a person_n who_o gather_v a_o assembly_n be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o make_v a_o assembly_n extraordinary_a 1._o for_o then_o all_o the_o church_n gather_v by_o the_o apostle_n have_v be_v extraordinary_a which_o be_v most_o false_a 2._o if_o they_o make_v it_o extraordinary_a they_o must_v have_v impart_v unto_o it_o some_o extraordinary_a quality_n which_o they_o do_v not_o or_o at_o least_o which_o appear_v not_o from_o scripture_n and_o so_o it_o must_v be_v hold_v as_o if_o it_o be_v not_o for_o scripture_n be_v only_o a_o rule_n to_o we_o in_o that_o which_o it_o say_v and_o not_o in_o that_o which_o it_o say_v not_o to_o the_o 3._o because_o it_o be_v compound_v of_o extraordinary_a person_n viz._n apostles_n this_o answer_n satisfi_v not_o the_o argument_n 1._o it_o be_v ridiculous_a to_o call_v all_o extraordinary_a that_o make_v against_o they_o 2._o because_o it_o be_v not_o compound_v of_o the_o apostle_n alone_o but_o also_o of_o the_o elder_n vers_fw-la 2.3_o 3._o because_o not_o only_o the_o apostle_n but_o also_o the_o elder_n judge_v the_o business_n v._o 2.3_o 4._o howbeit_o this_o appeal_v be_v to_o the_o apostle_n yet_o be_v it_o not_o to_o they_o in_o quality_n of_o apostle_n neither_o be_v we_o bind_v to_o believe_v it_o since_o the_o scripture_n have_v no_o such_o thing_n of_o it_o 5._o if_o it_o have_v be_v to_o the_o apostle_n in_o quality_n of_o apostle_n or_o man_n who_o be_v infallible_a then_o can_v they_o not_o have_v appeal_v from_o paul_n at_o antioch_n to_o the_o apostle_n at_o jerusalem_n since_o he_o be_v as_o infallible_a at_o antioch_n as_o they_o all_o at_o jerusalem_n 6._o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o elder_n have_v be_v superfluous_a for_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o apostle_n alone_o and_o their_o letter_n alone_o have_v suffice_v as_o canonical_a scripture_n to_o direct_v they_o at_o antioch_n in_o their_o proceed_n what_o need_v they_o add_v a_o fallible_a judgement_n to_o that_o that_o be_v infallible_a or_o man_n judgement_n to_o god_n and_o yet_o they_o content_v not_o themselves_o with_o that_o of_o the_o apostle_n alone_o 7._o if_o this_o assembly_n at_o jerusalem_n have_v be_v extraordinary_a and_o infallible_a because_o it_o be_v compound_v of_o extraordinary_a person_n viz._n of_o apostle_n ergo._n so_o be_v that_o of_o antioch_n because_o there_o be_v st._n paul_n a_o apostle_n 8._o by_o the_o same_o reason_n it_o must_v have_v be_v ordinary_a and_o fallible_a because_o it_o be_v compound_v of_o ordinary_a and_o fallible_a person_n viz._n the_o elder_n 9_o if_o the_o apostle_n have_v be_v there_o in_o quality_n of_o apostle_n and_o infallible_a minister_n what_o need_v they_o so_o long_o to_o consult_v and_o dispute_v in_o the_o assembly_n v._o 10_o a_o simple_a decision_n without_o any_o consultation_n may_v have_v suffice_v for_o dispute_n and_o consultatioâ—â—_n among_o man_n be_v not_o of_o thing_n which_o they_o hold_v altogether_o certain_a and_o out_o of_o doubt_n but_o of_o thing_n uncertain_a and_o doubtful_a 10._o i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n viz._n that_o if_o a_o council_n or_o assembly_n be_v compound_v of_o extraordinary_a person_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v extraordinary_a for_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n if_o there_o be_v seven_o or_o eight_o apostle_n dine_v or_o sleep_v together_o it_o shall_v be_v a_o extraordinary_a and_o apostolical_a dinner_n or_o sleep_v 11._o neither_o be_v all_o thing_n that_o be_v do_v by_o extraordinary_a person_n extraordinary_a for_o the_o apostle_n do_v eat_v drink_n and_o sleep_v neither_o yet_o be_v that_o extraordinary_a eat_v drink_v or_o sleeep_v but_o ordinary_a as_o in_o other_o man_n 12._o because_o the_o apostle_n be_v material_a part_n or_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n their_o gift_n as_o infallibility_n and_o office_n be_v personal_a and_o denominate_v themselves_o only_o and_o not_o every_o assembly_n wherein_o they_o be_v or_o may_v be_v for_o as_o the_o form_n that_o denominate_v their_o person_n belong_v only_o to_o they_o so_o do_v the_o denomination_n proceed_v from_o it_o 13._o because_o the_o part_n of_o assembly_n and_o consociation_n may_v have_v contrary_a form_n and_o denomination_n secundum_fw-la entiatem_fw-la as_o we_o see_v in_o republic_n for_o the_o whole_a republic_n may_v be_v rich_a and_o potent_a and_o the_o member_n thereof_o very_o poor_a because_o of_o the_o great_a tribute_n they_o pay_v to_o the_o state_n and_o the_o statepoor_a and_o the_o member_n or_o subject_n rich_a because_o of_o the_o subject_n great_a trade_n and_o profit_n and_o their_o small_a contribution_n to_o the_o state_n so_o in_o the_o church_n in_o a_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n of_o prophet_n as_o that_o of_o achab_n there_o may_v be_v one_o prophet_n infallible_a yea_o if_o there_o have_v be_v 400._o yet_o that_o council_n have_v be_v as_o it_o be_v fallible_a because_o of_o the_o plurality_n of_o the_o vote_n of_o the_o false_a prophet_n so_o a_o army_n of_o 40000000._o of_o pigmee_n and_o dwarf_n be_v a_o great_a army_n and_o every_o one_o of_o they_o a_o little_a man_n to_o the_o 3._o i_o have_v already_o answer_v to_o the_o 4._o answ_n 1._o it_o be_v not_o to_o the_o apostle_n in_o quality_n of_o apostle_n as_o i_o have_v prove_v it_o 2._o because_o it_o be_v also_o to_o the_o elder_n 3._o i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n for_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n it_o shall_v be_v ordinary_a since_o it_o be_v to_o the_o elder_n who_o be_v ordinary_a minister_n to_o the_o 5._o 1._o i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n for_o all_o thing_n that_o be_v in_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o church_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a since_o many_o of_o they_o continue_v now_o as_o ordinary_a 2._o because_o if_o it_o be_v extraordinary_a because_o it_o be_v in_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o church_n ergo_fw-la all_o that_o we_o have_v in_o christian_a religion_n must_v be_v extraordinary_a since_o there_o be_v no_o thing_n in_o it_o but_o it_o have_v a_o beginning_n so_o faith_n justification_n the_o sacrament_n and_o all_o the_o ordinary_a minister_n of_o the_o church_n shall_v be_v extraordinary_a since_o they_o have_v a_o beginning_n with_o the_o church_n 3._o howbeit_o it_o be_v extraordinary_a in_o respect_n of_o time_n as_o all_o thing_n at_o their_o first_o beginning_n yet_o be_v it_o not_o extraordinary_a in_o respect_n of_o god_n law_n which_o ordain_v it_o to_o be_v ordinary_a answ_n 3._o this_o argument_n may_v be_v other_o way_n elude_v in_o say_v that_o this_o business_n be_v not_o judge_v at_o jerusalem_n by_o way_n of_o appeal_v but_o by_o way_n of_o council_n not_o by_o judge_n but_o by_o friend_n and_o brethren_n rep._n but_o this_o evaston_n be_v no_o better_a than_o the_o rest_n 1._o because_o the_o text_n contain_v no_o such_o thing_n and_o we_o can_v take_v it_o upon_o their_o word_n no_o more_o than_o they_o will_v take_v it_o upon_o we_o unless_o we_o prove_v it_o as_o we_o here_o do_v 2._o because_o heretofore_o we_o have_v show_v many_o yea_o almost_o all_o the_o condition_n necessary_a to_o a_o appeal_v whereof_o the_o rest_n may_v be_v infer_v by_o necessary_a consequence_n 3._o because_o s._n james_n who_o as_o some_o divine_n conceive_v be_v the_o moderator_n or_o praeses_fw-la of_o the_o assembly_n say_v not_o my_o counsel_n be_v but_o my_o sentence_n be_v which_o be_v not_o the_o stile_n of_o a_o counsellor_n to_o a_o friend_n but_o of_o a_o judge_n 4._o the_o judgement_n in_o the_o text_n be_v call_v a_o decree_n 5._o if_o it_o have_v be_v but_o a_o council_n the_o pharisee_n may_v as_o well_o yea_o more_fw-it easy_o have_v
sect_n and_o all_o sort_n of_o ecclesiastical_a government_n neither_o have_v i_o ever_o hear_v of_o any_o petition_n make_v about_o it_o much_o less_o for_o any_o independent_a government_n m._n s._n and_o where_o conscience_n be_v tender_a a_o little_a violence_n be_v a_o great_a torment_n to_o it_o a._n s._n it_o have_v be_v tell_v you_o twenty_o time_n 1._o that_o no_o man_n violate_v or_o force_v your_o conscience_n 2._o and_o all_o sect_n bring_v the_o same_o pretext_n of_o tender_a conscience_n 3._o and_o we_o tell_v you_o again_o that_o your_o way_n be_v not_o way_n of_o tender_a but_o of_o turbulent_a conscience_n a._n s._n 3._o argument_n no_o state_n in_o christendom_n where_o there_o be_v one_o only_a religion_n establish_v will_v admit_v the_o public_a exercise_n of_o any_o other_o or_o endure_v a_o schism_n in_o that_o which_o be_v already_o receive_v wherefore_o then_o shall_v it_o be_v do_v here_o m._n s._n his_o three_o reason_n 1._o suppose_v that_o malignant_a supposition_n viz._n that_o presbytery_n and_o apologism_n make_v two_o differ_a religion_n 2._o that_o there_o be_v no_o state_n in_o christendom_n etc._n etc._n 3._o that_o apologism_n in_o case_n it_o be_v tolerate_v must_v needs_o become_v a_o schism_n in_o that_o religion_n which_o be_v establish_v in_o the_o land_n a._n s._n to_o the_o first_o i_o answer_v 1._o that_o neither_o i_o do_v suppose_v nor_o yet_o can_v suppose_v any_o such_o thing_n for_o we_o see_v no_o common_a confession_n of_o faith_n of_o the_o apologism_n neither_o will_v the_o apologist_n be_v know_v or_o declare_v their_o tenet_n but_o be_v evermore_o in_o the_o synod_n and_o out_o of_o the_o synod_n observe_v what_o be_v there_o say_v or_o do_v take_v their_o advantage_n upon_o all_o occasion_n and_o shape_a their_o tenet_n according_a to_o the_o current_n of_o the_o time_n 2._o if_o the_o word_n religion_n be_v take_v in_o a_o large_a signification_n as_o it_o contain_v in_o itself_o both_o doctrine_n and_o discipline_n than_o the_o independent_o be_v of_o a_o different_a religion_n from_o we_o since_o their_o discipline_n be_v altogether_o different_a 3._o if_o it_o be_v take_v for_o a_o potential_a part_n of_o justice_n which_o incline_v the_o will_n to_o honour_n god_n then_o the_o independent_o differ_v from_o we_o in_o very_o many_o act_n of_o religion_n both_o in_o those_o that_o it_o exercise_v whether_o they_o be_v internal_a or_o external_a and_o in_o those_o that_o it_o command_v to_o other_o virtue_n and_o consequent_o in_o religion_n itself_o for_o they_o have_v much_o superstition_n in_o the_o act_n of_o their_o religion_n 1._o in_o respect_n of_o the_o person_n in_o that_o they_o make_v every_o man_n a_o minister_n to_o preach_v and_o to_o rule_v 2._o in_o their_o sacrament_n in_o that_o they_o take_v their selve_o to_o be_v so_o holy_a that_o no_o protestant_n yea_o though_o he_o so_o live_v as_o that_o he_o give_v no_o offence_n to_o any_o man_n be_v yet_o worthy_a of_o their_o communion_n etc._n etc._n if_o it_o be_v take_v for_o the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n we_o know_v not_o the_o doctrine_n of_o their_o church_n since_o they_o be_v all_o independent_a one_o upon_o another_o but_o as_o for_o that_o of_o particular_a independent_a person_n master_v goodwin_n religion_n of_o coalmanstreet_n who_o be_v think_v to_o be_v a_o independent_a and_o matriculate_v into_o the_o independent_a society_n be_v a_o religion_n different_a from_o we_o as_o appear_v by_o his_o book_n which_o be_v blame_v by_o the_o best_a minister_n of_o london_n whereof_o some_o of_o they_o have_v write_v against_o he_o so_o be_v that_o of_o that_o other_o most_o famous_a independent_a who_o preach_v not_o long_o ago_o at_o westminster_n of_o some_o of_o who_o doctrine_n i_o give_v you_o a_o short_a relation_n but_o even_o now_o as_o for_o the_o second_o supposition_n m._n s._n he_o say_v that_o it_o be_v manifest_o untrue_a as_o it_o be_v notorious_o know_v in_o france_n the_o low-countries_n etc._n etc._n a._n s._n but_o it_o be_v notorious_o know_v in_o france_n that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o will_n of_o the_o state_n and_o of_o all_o papist_n that_o protestant_n be_v tolerate_v there_o as_o it_o appear_v evident_o 1._o by_o so_o many_o bloody_a massacre_n and_o butchery_n of_o the_o protestant_n there_o 2._o by_o so_o many_o war_n whereby_o they_o obtain_v a_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n 3._o they_o have_v many_o prince_n of_o the_o royal_a blood_n for_o they_o who_o be_v protestant_n many_o officer_n of_o the_o crown_n many_o of_o the_o parliament_n in_o paris_n and_o final_o king_n henry_n the_o four_o who_o in_o the_o beginning_n be_v a_o protestant_n to_o who_o by_o succession_n belong_v the_o crown_n for_o who_o right_a they_o seek_v very_o stout_o in_o sundry_a battle_n furnish_v he_o with_o man_n and_o money_n for_o the_o war_n and_o he_o after_o his_o external_a revoult_n remain_v evermore_o a_o protestant_a in_o his_o heart_n as_o it_o be_v common_o believe_v and_o fear_v the_o jesuitical_a faction_n in_o recompense_n of_o their_o good_a service_n grant_v they_o liberty_n of_o their_o conscience_n free_a exercise_n of_o their_o religion_n and_o town_n of_o surety_n and_o security_n therefore_o they_o obtain_v then_o their_o liberty_n by_o the_o sword_n and_o afterward_o they_o be_v confirm_v by_o law_n but_o sore_o against_o the_o state_n and_o the_o papist_n will_n and_o all_o this_o notwithstanding_o the_o papistical_a sect_n evermore_o undermine_v they_o and_o by_o little_a and_o little_a against_o all_o law_n cut_v they_o short_a of_o those_o liberty_n so_o dear_o purchase_v by_o they_o but_o if_o you_o take_v france_n for_o such_o a_o refuge_n for_o libertinism_n you_o will_v do_v well_o to_o try_v whether_o you_o can_v settle_v a_o colony_n of_o you_o there_o i_o believe_v you_o will_v quick_o experiment_n it_o how_o little_a favour_n you_o shall_v receive_v there_o in_o respect_n of_o that_o you_o have_v already_o receive_v of_o your_o own_o countryman_n as_o for_o the_o netherlands_o if_o there_o be_v but_o one_o religion_n there_o they_o will_v not_o tolerate_v any_o other_o and_o what_o they_o have_v do_v in_o tolerate_v many_o it_o be_v not_o so_o much_o will_n as_o necessity_n that_o have_v force_v they_o to_o do_v so_o and_o the_o history_n testify_v how_o unwilling_a they_o be_v in_o the_o beginning_n to_o grant_v any_o toleration_n at_o all_o to_o the_o papist_n where_o they_o be_v already_o establish_v if_o you_o of_o late_o have_v be_v tolerate_v there_o 1._o it_o be_v because_o you_o teach_v not_o there_o in_o their_o language_n but_o in_o english_a to_o english_a man_n 2._o and_o there_o you_o profess_v not_o for_o any_o thing_n we_o know_v that_o presbyterial_a government_n be_v episcopal_a or_o contrary_a to_o god_n word_n as_o you_o do_v here_o 3._o they_o believe_v that_o if_o you_o can_v have_v get_v the_o exercise_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n in_o england_n you_o will_v not_o have_v be_v so_o averse_a from_o it_o as_o you_o be_v 4._o we_o know_v not_o whether_o your_o religion_n be_v tolerate_v by_o the_o state_n general_n or_o whether_o it_o be_v tolerate_v positive_a or_o negatiuè_a the_o three_o supposition_n be_v true_a but_o m._n s._n repli_v or_o rather_o answer_v that_o every_o difference_n in_o judgement_n do_v not_o make_v a_o schism_n in_o that_o religion_n which_o be_v profess_v on_o both_o side_n a._n s._n neither_o say_v i_o any_o such_o thing_n but_o m._n s._n here_o give_v himself_o much_o to_o do_v with_o many_o long_a and_o idle_a discourse_n without_o any_o reason_n at_o all_o if_o he_o desire_v to_o know_v what_o independency_n be_v whether_o a_o heresy_n or_o a_o schism_n i_o have_v evermore_o deal_v fair_o with_o he_o i_o have_v give_v a_o definition_n of_o both_o heresy_n be_v a_o error_n in_o part_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n in_o he_o who_o once_o profess_v it_o whereof_o he_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v yet_o he_o continue_v and_o pertinacious_o persevere_fw-la in_o it_o but_o schism_n be_v a_o breach_n of_o christian_a charity_n only_o whereby_o man_n separate_v themselves_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o true_a church_n and_o after_o sufficient_a conviction_n pertinacious_o persevere_v in_o the_o same_o here_o i_o take_v heresy_n and_o schism_n in_o a_o strict_a signification_n as_o they_o be_v take_v by_o divine_n both_o protestant_n and_o schoolman_n when_o they_o distinguish_v they_o one_o from_o another_o if_o he_o admit_v these_o definition_n which_o be_v ordinary_o approve_v of_o in_o the_o school_n we_o may_v examine_v thereby_o the_o independency_n and_o see_v whether_o it_o be_v a_o schism_n or_o a_o heresy_n or_o not_o if_o he_o reject_v it_o i_o will_v pray_v he_o to_o give_v we_o some_o better_a one_o i_o say_v not_o that_o independency_n be_v a_o schism_n or_o that_o the_o independent_a