Selected quad for the lemma: opinion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
opinion_n	church_n	heresy_n	heretical_a	602	5	10.5324	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A87828	Seven questions about the controversie betweene the Church of England, and the Separatists and Anabaptists, breifely [sic] discussed. 1. Whether is the Church of England as it now stands a true church? 2. Whether the Church of England be a right nationall church? 3. Whether are the ministers in the Church of England sent of God, and so are true ministers or not? 4. Whether is the baptisme of infants a true and lawfull baptisme or no? 5. Whether it be lawfull to be rebaptized or not? 6. Whether it is lawfull to separate from all the publike ordinances and Christian assemblies in our English church, because there are some defects in discipline, and in other things amongst us? 7. Whether is it necessarie to demolish our churches (steeple-houses as the Separatists call them,) and to build them in other places, because they were built by idolators for idolatrous worship, were abused with images, and dedicated to saints? By Immanuel Knutton, preacher of Gods word at Beeston in Nottingham shire [sic].	Knutton, Immanuel, d. 1655.	1645 (1645)	Wing K744; Thomason E25_20; ESTC R4217	31,540	40

Cecilianus Bishop of Carthage fell from the unity of the Church and in the end were defenders of hereticall opinions we reade 1 Sam. 2.22 what horrible abuses of the Lords service was then yea worse then is amongst us yet Elkanah and his wives did frequent the publike Assemblies 1 Sam. 1.3 which he would not have done if his presence there had beene any approbation of those abuses 1 Cor. 11.33 34. there were more horrible abuse of the Lords Supper then are amongst us yet Paul bids them not separate upon this but come together againe yet better prepared I suppose it is lawfull for you to reade a Papists Booke whose religion is heresie or to dispute with a Jesuite and yet by your presence give no approbation of his Religion and condition Mat. 23.3 Christ bids them heare the Pharisees a vaine sect sprang up amongst the Jewes 144. yeares before Christ saith Josephus yet Christ approves not of them farther then they taught the law truly but in the same chapter denounced many woes against them Phil. 1.18 Paul rejoyced that Christ was preached of envie and strife by the false Apostles whose calling was not from Christ then I beleeve that Paul accounted it lawfull for people to here such Preach and yet be in no danger of approving their false Apostleship Besides if your bare presence at our Assemblies doth give an approbation of our calling which seemes Antichristian to you then your presence in our markets where be many prophane people may as truely approove of their sins and wickednesse Christ knew Judas to bee a notorious hypocrite a covetous wordling yea a traitor yet hee admitted him into his family permits him to sit with him at the table yet Christ was farre from approving of Iudas his sin and wickednesse Object But I dare not joyne with your mixt Assemblies least I contract the guilt of their sinnes upon mine owne head Answer That blessed man of God Mr. Hooker now in New England in a famous Sermon he Preached upon 2 Tim. 3.5 answers this objectiō thus suppose saith he those in authority will not cast out prophane persons yet the Saints of God should not abstaine from the Congregation it is pittifull indeede and the thing is troublesome and tedious to a gratious heart and we must mourne for it but beeing it is not in my power I must not abstaine Then he answering the objections of the Anabaptists saith They saith hee cast this as a reproach upon our Church common drunkards say they and swearers if they pay but two pence for their offering at Easter may receive the Lords Supper he answers thus we confesse this fault let it lie where it is we cannot reforme it we onely can mourne for it and that God will accept Obj. 1 Cor. 5.11 if there be an adulterer c. with such do not eate that is communicate not he answers to eate there is not referred to the communion in eating the body of Christ but eate not with him that is be not familiar with such a person and it includes the word familiarity not communion at the Lords table Psal 41.9 their eating implyeth a common inward familiarity mine owne familiar friend c. But saith he they reply from the greater to the lesse if wee may not eate with them privately then much lesse publikely may we communicate with them he answers It s no good reason because I have more authority to refuse the company of a man in mine owne house then I have to refuse in the open congregation I can keepe a man out of my house but I cannot fling him out of the open congregation that belongs onely to those that are in authority Thus farre Mr. Hooker Next I say you may not lawfully relinquish our publique Assemblies and ordinances because of prophane persons that be amongst them whilest we have the Ordinances purely dispensed for the substance Reas 1 Because there is neither example nor precept in Scripture to warrant it if one cannot frequent the meanes of grace in mixt congregations without contracting the guilt of their sinnes then surely Elkanah would never have sacrificed to the Lord in Shiloh yearely with Hophni and Phinehas such prophane persons if there were such danger of contracting the guilt of others sinnes this way then Paul would not have wisht the Corinthians to come together againe though there were amongst thē most vile abuses of the Lords Supper worse then amongst us Vpon the same ground the Jewes might have refused to heare the Pharises as wicked a generation of Hypocrites as ever was both for life and Doctrine yet Christ bids the Jewes and his owne Disciples heare them Mat. 23.3 on the same ground its unlawfull for you to frequent our markets to have civill commerce with us for there even there doe the prophane people amongst us act and practise their wickednesse more openly bouldly and frequently then in our meeting houses in the Markets they use swearing drunkennesse lying couzening c. I should thinke it more dangerous being there though a true Christian may lawfully bee there through the necessity of his perticular calling then in our publike Assemblies at Gods worship for in Gods publike worship amongst us the prophanest persons put on a forme of piety carry themselves demurely with outward reverence they doe not act their leudenes and follie there but conforme to the outward worship I conceive then there is lesse danger for you to be there Reas 2 Because we are bound in conscience by command from Gods word to frequent the publike ordinances for our owne particular edification Isa 55.1 2 3. Prov. 8.1 to 11. verse Prov. 9.1 to 7. verse and in many other places now this I must obey or else I sinne fearefully against God and mine owne soule if the wicked intrude amongst the Saints in their sinfull estate there sins shall lie upon their owne head indeede if I commit their sins with them or approve of their wickednesse and encourage them in it or if I connive at their sinne and reprove them not for it if I have a lawfull calling to doe it or if I mourne not for their sinnes nor endeavour to reforme them then I make my selfe guilty of their sins but if I come in obedience to Gods command to meete him in his ordinances for the enlargement of my communion with him this makes me not guilty of their wickednesse if it did then doubtlesse Christ who knew Judas to be an Hypocrite would not have suffered the other Apostles to eate the Passeover with him but hee would have excluded Judas and expelled him or else hee would have diswaded the other Apostles from comming into Judas his company neither of which he did Therefore it favours strongly of Pharisaisme to relinquish our publike Assemblies because they are mixt the Pha●●●ees thought it sinne to converse with the base vulgar their Phylacteries did say touch me not for I am cleaner then thou though wee have some prophane yet not all

fall into fearefull errours and heresies through the pride of their hearts Reas 4 Because it argues an extreame height of pride such as separate from all the ordinances are puft up with ambitious spirits like unto those in Isa 65.5 such would make themselves seeme holier then Christ and his Apostles who went and preached amongst the prophane Jewes and Heathens and though some of these seeme humble yet their seeming depth of humility may be a reall height of pride they may not lawfully separate from us except Christ also did whilest hee stayes with us they should doe the like Reas 5 Because this doctrine of Separation crosseth the judgements and practises of the godly Saints in all ages it is but of late invention those that seeme to have beene the Separatists their predecessors in former ages were the Donatists 400. yeares after Christ Donatus Bishop in Numidia drew many after him and had many favourers called by divers names Parmeniani Rogatistae Cirtenses Maximianistae Circumciliones the worst branch of this roote for these would burne or drowne themselves and account this kind of death Martyrdome the maine heresie of the Donatists was 1 that the true Catholike Church was no where else to bee found but onely in that corner of Africke wherein they themselves dwelt 2 that baptisme was not effectuall except it had beene ministred by one of their society against these heretiks did Augustine Bishop of Hippo contend with mighty grace the Separatists of these times are in some measure like them but in some points they exceede the Donatists Mr. Robinson and Mr. Johnson in one part confesse this their Separation to bee late and new but in the nature and causes thereof to be as ancient as the Gospel the former I grant the latter I deny for we never read that the Saints in Scripture separated from those assemblies where God was truely worshipped in the old Testament Elkanah frequented the publike Assemblies at Shiloh 1 Samuel 1.3 though there were more vile abuses of the Lords ordinances then amongst us in England 1 Sam. 2.22 and in that time betweene the Prophet Malachy Christs Nativity we reade that Zachary executed his Office Luke 1.8.9 and did not Separate from the Lords ordinances though there were fearefull abuses amongst them as farre as I remember in the Old Testament Caine was the first that separated from Gods holy servants and service Gen. 4.16 and Iudas in the new 1 Cor. 11.33.34 he wisht them not to separate but to reforme their horrible abuses of the Lords Supper Reas 6 Because to separate from us is to separate from the sweete presence of Christ in his Ordinances and from the fellowship of holy Saints as any be in the world which to mee seemes unlawfull Reas 7 Because the Separatists themselves had their first illumination in our Church by the word taught amongst us they made profession amongst us before they left us now that ministry of ours which first converted them doubtlesse through God assistance is able to build them up and they are bound to respect our Ministry before other because it first converted them 1. Cor. 4.14 15. this their separation is an ill requitall to their spirituall fathers Object Though we leave your Godly Saints and Ordinances yet wee have the society of other holy Saints and the Ordinances in purity Answ I beleeve there be amongst the Separatists some godly Saints but this is no signe of a Saint to depart from our Church for some defects in it it is altogether without example or ground from the Scripture and is rather a signe of a proud Pharisee doe not thinke that all your fellow Separatists are upright and sincere there bee as discembling Hypocrites amongst them as any are amongst us neither expect such edification from the ordinances dispensed amongst you as from the Ordinances amongst us because God gives you not now extraordinary gifts as hee did to the Apostles and your lay preaching wants those eminent gifts of learning which are gifts of the spirit 1 Cor. 12.4.10.11 which the ministry of this English Church enjoyeth yea some who followed the Separation a while but afterwards returned from it to our publike assemblies againe said that the Ministry amongst the Separatists is a very fruitlesse dead and heartlesse Ministry that they will often disagree about the interpretation of some places of Scripture and sometimes none of them hit upon the right sense whereas if they had a man of learning and judgement amongst them hee would soone resolve their doubts and prevent that unedifying confusion that is too much amongst them I desire you of the Separation to consider that place well Heb. 13.7 whose faith follow now those godly teachers who instrumentally converted you were not of your faith but did beleeve this English Church to bee a true Church wherein the Lord dwells and they joyned with us in Gods service I desire you likewise to tell mee ingenuously whether you have heard the voyce of Christ sensibly felt his spirit working upon your hearts more by the Ministry of this English Church than or by the Ministry of the Separation time was when you would have melted in prayer amongst us you would have trembled at Gods word in our Congregations ye would have obeyed from the heart that forme of Doctrine we delivered your hearts would have burned with zeale in holy performances amongst us you seemed to be inflamed with precious love to Christ to his ordinances and to his servants doe you finde the ministry of the Separation working these effects in you I hardly beleeve you do Object But your Ministers being called by the Prelates their calling is Antichristian we dare not come to your publike Assemblies to Gods worship because in so doing wee shall approve of their unlawfull calling Answer If you come to our Assemblies with good hearts to get edification by the word you bare presence at the ordinances is no approbation of our calling by the Prelates whilest your judgements and speeches are against it many godly and learned men frequented our Christian Assemblies even when the Prelates lorded it over us and troubled us with their ceremonies yet they approved not of the Prelates calling not of their ceremonies but manifested their disapprobation and utter dislike of them so I desire you to come and joyne with us in our Christian Services private and publike speake what you please against the Prelates and their Ceremonies and confute our outward calling from the Prelates by argument as much as you please so that you will but keepe the unity of the spirit with us in the bond of peace but this renting from us doth exceeding much hurt it brings many an able Minister into contempt and the word he preacheth to much disgrace it makes many weaker Christians to stagger and is commonly an inlet to divers errors and heresies for inveterate schismes oft times turne to heresies the Donatists because they could not effect their cruell designe against