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A20679 An aduertisement to the English seminaries, amd [sic] Iesuites shewing their loose kind of writing, and negligent handling the cause of religion, in the whole course of their workes. By Iohn Doue Doctor in Diuinity. Dove, John, 1560 or 61-1618.; Walsingham, Francis, 1577-1647. 1610 (1610) STC 7077; ESTC S115461 57,105 88

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catalogue of heresies many reckoned vp which are so farre from directly impugning faith that indeed they do not at all impugne the faith as that of Aerius which denied prayer and sacrifice for the dead and the set fasts of the Church To which I answer out of S. Augustine First these Fathers which make such long catalogues of heresies do not write as if they in their owne iudgements did hold all these to be heresies but onely they deliuer what opinions in seuerall ages haue bene condemned as hereticall leauing it to the priuate iudgement of the reader whether they were iustly condemned as hereticall or not but their selues deliuer not what is their owne iudgement For saith he Quid faciat haereticum regulari quâdam definitione comprehendi sicut ego existimo aut omninò non potest aut difficillimè potest To deliuer by a lawfull definition what thing maketh an hereticke in my opinion it is impossible or at lest of great difficulty Againe that in the catalogue of heresies the Fathers do not agree concerning the number of them but some recken vp more some fewer he saith Quod vtique non euenisset nisi aliud vni eorū videretur esse haeresis aliud alteri The cause was for that such an opinion as seemed heresie in the iudgement of one Father in the iudgement of another was not hereticall And concerning Epiphanius the Bishop of Cypris Philestrius Bishop of Brix which both writ of heresies the one making a longer Catalogue then the other he saith Procul dubio in eâ quaestione vbi disceptatur quid sit haeresis non idem videbatur ambobus reuer à hoc omnino definire difficile est ideo cauendum quum omnes in numerum redigere conamur ne pretermittamus aliquas quum hareses sint aut enumeremus aliquas quum haereses non sint That which seemed an heresie to one of them did not seeme so to the other and to define truly what is heresie is very hard and they which will write the Catalogue of heresies must be very circumspect lest they leaue out of the Catalogue some opinions which are indeed hereticall put in others which are no heresies Secondly the Fathers in those Catalogues did not vnderstand this word Heresie so strictly as in our age it is vnderstood but generally for euery sect in religion differing from the receiued opinion of the Church as it appeareth by S. Augustine in the words going before where hee maketh an heresie and a sect all one shewing Quantum inter se differunt de numero sectarum How much Epiphanius and Philastrius discent concerning the number of sects where he calleth them sects which before he called heresies And it is no maruaile though with those Fatheres all heresies do not directly impugne the Faith when by thē onely sects are vnderstood But to make euery opinion an heresie which not only directly but also by a consequent impugneth faith as M. Walsingham will haue it is to make no difference betweene errour and heresie but to call euery errour in religion an heresie as Ludouicus Viues speaketh Haeresis nomen rebus leuissimis impingitur The name of heresie is layd vpon euery light matter And of him it may one time or other be verified which Alphonsus de Castro speaketh Idcirco fit vt hiqui tam leuiter de haeresi pronuntiant non expendentes de quâre loquantur saepè suà ipsorum sagittâ feriantur incidantque in eam foueam quam alijs parabant It happeneth that they which so rashly call euery thing heresie not considering whereof they speake bee oftentimes beaten with their owne weapon and fall into the pit which they digged for others I shewed pag. 10. how Pusillanimity maketh men sometimes do contrary to their owne conscience as Cardinall Pole who dying said The Protestants are the honester men I would be a Protestant were it not for the Church of Rome This I brought for example to illustrate not for argument to proue For exempla non probant examples proue not He turneth it another way saying I broughtit for a reason to proue that Protestants are no heretickes In defence of our Church that it could not be accounted hereticall I called into question the authority of the Councell of Trent by which it was condemned alledging diuers exceptions against that Councell that it could not be a lawfull generall Councell the paucity of the Bishops which were there present their partiality the definition of a generall Councell cited by Bellarmine which could no way be verified of that assembly Hauing produced these arguments to disinable that Councell he doth not so much as repeate any of them much lesse doth he answer them onely he saith that it seemed to him a slight argument and to giue more aduantage to my aduersary then defence to my selfe and my cause I reply that it is no maruaile though a man of slight iudgement which passeth ouer all other things of moment so slightly doe esteeme those arguments to be so slight which his selfe cannot answer To perswade Catholikes to come to our Church I shewed how the learned among them do come euery day nearer to our religion and more and more fauour our opinions He saith it is a dreame I wish this dreamer to awake out of sleepe and with greater vigilancy to consider of the particulars as they are produced by mee I said First the learned Catholickes agree with vs concerning the bookes of Scripture which be Canonicall which Apocripha I writ in this maner The bookes of Toby Iudith Baruch Ecclesiasticus Wisdome Maccabes the fragment of Esther they hold to be Canonicall according to S. Augustine We to be Apocripha according to S. Hierome and in this point we differ no more from them then Hierome did from Augustine which did both agree and were easily reconciled S. Hierome interpreting S. Augustines meaning that they were Canonicall enough to proue rules of life not grounds of doctrine and faith Thus haue we deliuered long since But Bellarmine handling this question at large replieth not against vs nay hee doth not so much as mention this distinction of Canons of faith and Canons of good life Therefore we take it as a thing granted by the lawes of disputation that he holdeth as we hold resteth satisfied with our answer the case to be cleare betweene vs both M. Walsingham blusheth not to deliuer a notorious vntruth saying that Bellarmine handleth this distinction at large and refuteth the same in his first booke De verbo Dei cap. 10. In which booke and chapter no such thing can be found Secondly they agree with vs cōcerning the Bible which is the best and truest edition For wheras we holding the originall text only to be authenticall the Councell of Trent obtrudeth to vs the vulgar Latine translation Bellarmine preferreth the original before the Latine as we do M. Walsingham is not ashamed to charge me that
points of doctrine the greatest Papists in the world agree with vs. Perswas page 11. These are my words I deny them not Moreouer I did instance in these fundamentall points wherein they consent with vs and thereupon I inferred that they did rashly condemne vs for heretickes what then followeth will he therefore inferre that either holding the fundamentall points therefore their superstitions and errours may safely be maintained or that therefore they may be iustly excused for not communicating with vs as if their consenting with vs in fundamentall points should be a cause why they should the rather abhorre our Church religion It is a sufficient preiudice to the cause of their religion that they dispute in such loose manner Againe he saith So Doctor Doue in his whole Treatise neuer chargeth the Church of Rome either with schisme or heresie but laboureth to excuse themselues offering that we shall communicate with them without any change of opinion and yet hee setteth downs this for an infallible position THIS PROPOSITION IS VNDOVBTEDLY TRVE NO HERETIKE OR SCHISMATIKE IS TO BE COMMVNICATED WITHAL Perswas pag. 5. In that I haue not charged them with schisme or heresie I haue shewed that we are more charitable to them then they are to vs which do charge vs with both In that hee saith I onely laboured to excuse our selues as if I had proued nothing to cleare vs from that iniust aspertion I referre him to the place it selfe where I haue made due proofe that we are free from both heresie and schisme by such sound reasons as this Author cannot answer But whereas he saith it is offered on my part that they shall at their pleasure communicate with vs without change of opinion he burdeneth me with an vntruth by himselfe diuised and not to bee quoted out of any of my bookes In so writing he may fill vp a volume but he shall neuer strengthen his owne cause of weaken ours Moreouer saith he he giueth vs security that by no possibility according to the former reason of generall Councels the Romane Church can be iudged hereticall His words bee these pag. 14. No Church can be condemned and iudged hereticall by any priuate censure but it must be publicke by a generall Councell as he there expoundeth himselfe and is granted before But what doth he cōclude out of this That because the Church of Rome is not condemned by a generall Councell to bee hereticall it must needs be therefore orthodoxall This is such a consequent as neither Protestants nor any other of sound iudgement will grant Fifthly he chargeth me thus Touching Sacraments he alledgeth pag. 27. 28. that according to our definition of a Sacrament there are as many as we teach and this shall not breede any iarre betweene vs that therefore we should refuse to communicate together And transubstantiation it selfe shall be no barre but if we will receiue at their hands they will not examine how we expound these words Hoc est corpus meum This is my body pag. 29. And of discipline he writeth In that Councell of Trent they set forth such wholsome Canons concerning discipline as were fit for a reformed Church I deny not these words but I deny that they make any thing for the defence of Recusancy Concerning the word Sacrament as it is a name diuised by man but not found in the Scriptures so it is not any matter of saluation to vary about the number of Sacraments especially among them with whom it is not agreed what a Sacrament is For where words are not vnderstood ad idem secundem idem c. nothing hindereth but contrary or contradictory propositions may be both true as to say There are seuen and there are not seuen Sacraments For so concerning the number of Sacraments they and we differ in words when we may easily agree in substance The word Sacrament is strictly taken with vs and so according to M. Caluin his definition it is an outward signe ordeined of God to be cōtinued in his Church as a part of his diuine Seruice offering to all men but sealing onely to the faithfull his inward grace for the strengthening of their saith the applying of Christ his death vnto them And so there can be but two according to the confession of Saint Augustine A resurrectione Domini quaedam pauca signapro multis eademque factu facillima intellectu augustissinta obseruatione castissima ipse Dominus Apostolica tradidit disciplina baptismum coenam Domini Since the Lord his resurrection our Sauiour his selfe and from him his Apostles haue commended to vs for outward signes or seales a very few in steed of many and those for performance most easie for signification most ample for obseruation most pure and holy and they are Baptisme and the Lords Supper But this word Sacrament is more largely taken in the Church of Rome for a signe in generall although it do not apply vnto vs and represent before our eyes the death of Iesus Christ And it is defined to be Signum rei sacra an outward signe of any holy thing And according to that definition there may be not only 7. but also 70. Sacraments Of transubstantion hauing first proued that the bread and the wine in the Eucharist cannot be transubstantiated and yet not denying them to be the body and bloud of our Sauiour because he hath said they are so I said in that we both agree onely the difference betweene vs is how the words This is my body are to be vnderstood whether really or sacramentally properly or mystically And that it should be no barre or scruple to their consciences in what sense we vnderstand it so as we deliuer it to them according to the institution of our Sauiour Christ and that if they will in all other things submit themselues to the lawes of our Church we will not presse them so farre in examining them how they expound the words but rather yeeld so much to their weaknesse in this one poynt vntill God shall reueale a further measure of the knowledge of his truth vnto them So these words of mine import nothing in fauour of transubstantiation Thirdly the Councell of Trent hath set downe wholsome Canons cōcerning discipline as in part the 3. Lataran Coūcell did long before as namely for preaching and learned ministers c. And the reformed Churches of England Scotland Germany Netherland Geneua haue receiued many of those Canons although they come from the Pope as deeming them fit for a reformed Church But these my words make nothing for the allowance of that Councell it selfe or of the points of doctrine there concluded neither yet of their Recusancy among whom for the most part these Canons of discipline are not receiued Sixthly Concerning the Popes supremacy of Europe there can be no question For generally Protestants agree with Field Doue Ormerod that the regiment of the West Churches among which this nation is one belonged to the Pope of
soule he may likewise say that definition agreeth not with a painted man or the picture of a man As speaking of religion I define not false religion but the true Christian religion and speaking of a man I define not an equiuocall or analogicall but an vniuocall man So I define not a darke and erroneous but a sound and true vnderstanding conscience As for the heathens they haue yet left some reliques of the image of God which are reason vnderstanding Therefore the Apostle saith The Gentiles which haue not the law do by nature the things contained in the law hauing not the law they are a law to themselues which shew the effects of the law written in their hearts their consciences also bearing witnesse and their thoughts accusing one another or excusing that is the Gentiles haue not the law absolutely and in such perfect manner as the Iewes to whom God deliuered euery precept of the law expressely by writing yet they haue will they nill they written in their hearts some feeling of religion and are able to put a difference betweene vertue and vice which sufficeth onely to their damnation They do by nature ea quae legis sunt the things contained in the law that is they command things which are honest forbid the things which are vniust set downe punishments for theft adultery and such like offences But by the way Aliud est facere quod lex iubet aliud facere quod lex facit aut ea quae legis sunt facere It is one thing to doe what the law commandeth for that they do not that were to keepe the law another thing to do the things contained in the law or to do as the law doth that is onely to command the things which the law commandeth and to forbid what the law forbiddeth which onely the Gentiles do Neither do they that fully but onely in some part concerning outward things but are farre from the knowledge of true piety to saue their soules So then the conscience of the Gentiles being sufficiently instructed without Gods word by the light of nature onely to their condemnation what doth that concerne my purpose which define a conscience rightly informed and sufficiently grounded to saluation He goeth about to disproue my definition of heresie which I defined to be an errour stiffely and obstinately maintained and defended not by a consequent but directly impugning some article of faith Which definition he saith is also defectiue because it is not so large as the thing which is defined His words are these For if we looke into all the heresies recorded by Ireneus Tertullian Epiphanius Saint Augustine c. we shall not find the lest part directly and expressely against any article of the Apostles Creed which M. D. Doue a little after doth say he meaneth as of the Pelagians which holdeth that a man may do good workes by the power of his owne free will without grace the Aetians that faith was sufficient without good workes to life euerlasting and that Christ had reuealed more to them then to the Apostles the Aerians that denied prayer and sacrifices for the dead and set fasts of the Church Neither can D. Doue proue that his owne example of the Arian heresie by him alleaged did directly impugne any article of the Creed but by a consequent For Arius denied the equality of the Sonne with the Father and by a consequent his Godhead and so by a consequent the second article of the Creed Iesus Christ his onely Sonne our Lord. First I answer he hath not dealt ingenuously with me For I did not in my definition of heresie restraine Faith only to the Creed of the Apostles as the place it selfe will plainely shew for I did mention not onely that Creed but also the Creed of Nice of Ephesus of Constantinople which I sayd we hold and also the text of the Bible to free vs from heresie Secondly the Pelagian holding that a man could do good workes by the power of his owne free will without grace directly impugneth faith euen the text of the Bible where it is written We are not sufficient of our selues to thinke any thing as of our selues but our sufficiency is of God O Lord I know that the way of man is not in himselfe neither is it in man to walke and direct his steppes All the imaginations of the thoughts of mans heart are onely euill continually The naturall man perceaueth not the things that are of God We are dead in sinnes No man can say that Iesus is the Lord but by the Spirit of God The Aëtian saying Faith without good workes is sufficient to eternall life directly denieth the doctrine of the Bible What auaileth it my brethren though a man say he hath faith when he hath no workes can the faith saue him If faith haue no workes it is dead Whereas the Aetian holdeth that Christ hath reuealed more to him then to the Apostles it is expressely and directly against the Scriptures where S. Paul saith I haue kept nothing backe but haue shewed you all the counsell of God That the Arians denied the Godhead of Christ not by a consequent onely but directly witnes S. Augustine and Epiphanius For S. Augustine saith that they held Filium esse creaturam That the Sonne of God was a creature And Epiphanius Non veritus est ipse ac discipuli eius creaturam vocare eum qui omnia creauit verbum ex patre sine tempore sine principio genitum Both he and his disciples feared not to call him a creature which created all things euen the word which was begotten of his Father without time and without beginning As for Aerius he could not be an hereticke for denying prayer and sacrifice for the dead and set fasts of the Church For as much as prayer and sacrifice for the dead are contrary to sound doctrine and fasts are a matter of indifferency and not of faith That he was condemned for an hereticke it was not so much for these opinions as for that first being a Schismaticke because he could not obtaine a Bishopricke he became an Arian as it appeareth by S. Augustine his words are these Doluisse fertur quod Episcopus non potuit ordinari in Arianorum haeresim lapsus propria quoque dogmata addidisse dicens orare pro mortuis vel oblationem offerre non oportere c. He was discontented because he could not obteine a Bishopricke and thereupon he fell into the heresie of the Arians to which he added some opinions of his owne saying it was not lawfull to pray or offer sacrifice for the dead c. These positions of his S. Augustine doth not call heresies but onely opinions Likewise Epiphanius Therefore adhuc saluares est my definition of heresie remaineth sound and not to be by him gainesayd But by the way that I may giue good satisfaction to the reader concerning this poynt We find in the