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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A19220	The Catholike moderator: or A moderate examination of the doctrine of the Protestants Prouing against the too rigid Catholikes of these times, and against the arguments especially, of that booke called, The answer to the Catholike apologie, that we, who are members of the Catholike, apostolike, & Roman Church, ought not to condeme the Protestants for heretikes, vntill further proofe be made. First written in French by a Catholike gentleman, and now faithfully translated. See the occasion of the name of Huguenots, after the translaters epistle.; Examen pacifique de la doctrine des Huguenots. English	Constable, Henry, 1562-1613.; W. W., fl. 1623.	1623 (1623)	STC 5636.2; ESTC S109401	62,312	88

Catholikes and Huguenots thus farre forth agree in Doctrine that they are both of the same Faith and Religion IT is most cleare that men of the same Church and Religion may differ neuerthelesse about some opinions in Diuinitie Austen accords not to Hierome nor Epiphanius to Chrysostome nor Cyprian to Cornelius nor Irenaeus to Victor and questionlesse one of them was in the errour yet were they all Doctors approued by the Church and Saints euery one of them Euery errour doth not separate a man from the Church nor should we regard so much the number as the qualitie of them Arrius accorded with the Catholikes in all points but one insomuch as the change of a word yea of one bare letter would haue compounded the controuersie and yet was he the greatest Heretike that euer the Church was troubled with Origen on the other side dissented in infinite Tenents from the other old Doctors and was yet neuerthelesse esteemed a member of the Church To see then whether the Huguenots be of another Religion than wee neither their errors nor their numbers is the thing which is so much to be regarded but the nature of them only is it That is to say what Errors are to be reputed for Heresies and whether theirs be of that nature There be two things which according to the opinion of the Catholikes make Errors to proue Heresies The one when the Errour is of it selfe so enormous that he is at all times an Heretike that holds it So that euen before the Nicene Councell had decided it Ebion Paulus Samosetanus and Arrius stood then as Heretikes for that they denied the eternall Diuinitie of the Sonne of God The second thing which according to our opinion makes an Errour to become an Heresie is when any man maintains an opinion in point of Doctrine contrary to the Decrees of a Generall Councell So then the Heresie lies not so much in the mischieuousnesse of the opinion as in the resistance made against the ordinance of the Church For example The opinion of S. Cyprian touching Rebaptization was not Heresie in him because there was not as then any Decree of Councell made against it But since that say we this opinion is condemned legally it were flat Heresie in any other that should hold it Of this second Species of Heresie I will intreat in my third Chapter In this only of the former which is Whether the errors of the Huguenots be in themselues so enormous that they destroy the very foundation of Faith and by consequence keepe them off from being of the same Religion with vs. Let vs see then how our Antagonist takes vpon him to proue the contrary In the first place saith he both parties as well the Catholikes as their Aduersaries repute one another for Heretikes I answer that I finde no impossibilitie why they may not be both deceiued For two brothers being in choler may well renounce one another and yet they leaue not for all that to continue true brothers alwaies Cyrill and Theodoret accused one another for Heretiques and yet neither of them was so So that this reason is only drawne from the passion of men when Reason hath abandoned them But how doth he proue that the Catholikes repute the Huguenots for Heretikes The Catholike Church saith he hath by the Councell of Trent condemned diuers of the Lutheran opinions I answer according to my first distinction that it is one thing to returne an opinion for an heresie by condemnation and another thing to repute it so of its owne nature Now whether or no the Huguenots be hereticks by condemnation we will argue it hereafter in our third fourth and fifth Chapters But here we dispute only of the nature of their errour wherein his proofes are nothing to his purpose But saith he At Rome euerie holy Thursday the Pope pronounces them excommunicate and prohibits all Chatholikes to reade their Bookes In like manner the same day also he excommunicats all sinners of whom hee dares not denie but that many are of the Church else should he himselfe be condemned for an hereticke by the Councell of Constance which gaue sentence against Iohn Huz That the Church consists as well of the bad as of the good And whereas the Huguenots Bookes be prohibited so are also the Bookes of Machiauel Aretine and diuers other Catholikes Let vs next see the opinion which the Huguenots haue of the Catholike Doctrine Caluine saith he writes that the principall points of Doctrine in the Church of Rome are almost vtterly abolished and the right vse of the Sacraments in many fashions corrupted He needs but little explication the words themselues answer him Caluin saies not that the Sacraments are vtterly taken away but the right vse of them many waies corrupted Nor that the principall points of Religion are vtterly destroied but almost abolished A man may be almost kild and yet liue Secondly to proue how their Religion differs from ours he produces the controuersies of Originall sinne Free-will Iustification Merits and diuers others which he iudges of most consequence It is the greatest pittie in the world to heare how the most of the Preachers in both Religions commonly fight with their owne shadowes not vnderstanding what it is that their aduersarie holds which comes only of the subtleties of words inuented by the Deuill to disturbe the Peace of the Church One partie vnderstanding the word Iustification in one sense and another in another one Faith one way and another in another one Grace in one fashion another after another and so of the rest that which we say being true in our acception of the word and that which they say being likewise true as they take it So that if the desire of contention were once taken away we should soone finde that the most of these disputes wherewith peoples eares are filled are onely the subtelties of the Schoole vpon the Etimologies and Definitions of words only Whence it came to passe that in the conference at Regenspurg the Catholikes and the Protestants fell to some agreement in the question of Originall sinne of Predestination Free-will and diuers other points which is also confessed by Bishop Lindanus one of the tartest enemies that the Huguenots euer had Neue●thelesse the Authour of this answer is so ill aduised as to chuse out these questions principally to shew the differences betweene them and vs. For mine owne part I will not take vpon me to reconcile the said questions neither know I well to confesse mine owne ignorance freely whether it be possible to be done or no only thus much I assure my selfe that the difference is not so great as it is iudged to be Nor will I too exactly search out the point in controuersie because I well hope some other man may more happily performe it hereafter Only I will discourse vpon the said questions as they are commonly vnderstood by the best Doctors in each Religion In which sense I

to those Catholikes that are desirous of the quiet of the Church and State THERE are now thirty yeeres and more at seuerall times since we haue had perpetuall warres with the Huguenots as with Rebels and Heretikes though we haue perceiued of late that our former opinion was wrongfully conceiued against them and we may be also mistaken in the latter and that time which hath made it appeare that they are not Rebels may discouer likewise vnto vs that they are not Heretikes But howsoeuer it were much to be wished in the meane time that we would entertaine a charitable conceit of them till there be more euidence giuen in against them The bitter dissention in Religion hath beene the spring-head of all our miseries That was it which brought them forth at first and which yet nurseth them whence it is now come to passe that those men who are at this present disturbers of the State haue at the very selfe-same time begun to raise tumults in the Realme and to reviue and exasperate the differences which we haue in Religion In such fashion as that the practises of the principall Leaguers and the turbulent Sermons of diuers Preachers for I blame not all haue beene as it were Hippocrates twins who went alwaies together laught alwaies together and it may chance that these also may weepe together and we haue seene the experience of it that the tongues of the one haue done more mischiefe than the swords of the other See the cause then why in the beginning of these late troubles the Catholike Apologie hath laboured to qualifie this heat and to confute the slanders giuen out against the Reformed Religion and those of it Which Apologie hath beene in part refuted but so coldly that no proofes which the Confuter produceth could make me see any reason why we should so peremptorily condemne the Huguenots for Heretikes although differing from vs about the explication of some points of Religion Vpon which I was induced a yeere since more to answer the Reasons aforesaid But finding the Arguments to be of great weight I iudged it fitter to write a iust Treatise thereof by it selfe than to answer the obiections hudled vp together by another man which hath caused mee also both to suppresse that which I had written already and to defer that which I purposed to write And longer I suppose I had deferred it if these late Tragedies acted in the murthers of our two last Kings had not put me in the conceit of it how that these horrid Acts sprung from the selfe-same fountaine and that only vpon this ground too namely That the Errours of the Huguenots are so exceedingly enormous they found their Maximes by which they perswade themselues That a man may take any course lawfull or vnlawfull to destroy them and their fauourers Another motiue I also had which induced me to proceed in my purpose of writing Which was the consideration of the fortunate proceedings of our late King HENRY whom his enemies made to be called Great all the time that he continued Protestant Then whose troubles we need seeke no further example to shew how God both dislikes mans bloudie courses and disposes also of his owne proceedings his owne way For God neuer produces any extraordinary euent without some extraordinary Designe But how extraordinarily God in the beginning fauoured his Maiestie whiles he continued Protestant none knowes so well as his enemies forasmuch as God made vse of their courses for his aduancement They conceited it that by embroyling France in Ciuill warres to haue ruined him and these warres haue increased his honour and power They impatient of delayes thought presently by vniustifiable practises to haue vrged the late King to haue prosecuted him with more violence than he had done heretofore and these plots of theirs haue been both the causes of the vtter ruine of his enemies and of his reconcilement to the King Briefly his enemies thrust Armes into his hands for their owne destructions and those deuices by which they had thought to haue chased him out of Guyen haue brought him into the heart of France and by the selfe-same meanes whereby they thought to take away his life they haue giuen him the Kingdome May wee imagine that God had no designe in the bringing about of these purposes Or what else may wee gather out of all this but that God is angry when we will not permit him to dispose of his owne Church his owne way but deuise to preuent him by our owne wisdomes For which respect I protest before God that had I beene the sorest enemy that the King had had yet should I thinke that for no other reason God had so many wayes fauoured him than to punish vs who by vniustifiable practises out of an impatient zeale would haue rooted out the Reformed Religion though erroneous Haply then it may fall out that if wee alter our courses God will also change his And as those designes of ours by which we verily thought to haue aduanced our Religion haue hindred it So God also may turne the same meanes which we feared would hinder our Religion to the aduancement of it In the meane time let vs know thus much That God neuer blesses those mens courses which thinke to anticipate him through impatience Let vs then haue patience a while and when wee shall perceiue the times of peace to be fittest for our purposes let vs a Gods name offer the same conditions vnto the Huguenots which they propounded vnto vs before which was to assemble the best learned men in both Religions to discusse friendly the points in controuersie to the end that the quiet of the Common-wealth may goe along with that of the Church which if the Huguenots shall accept of as I make no doubt but they will I perswade my selfe that there may be such a course taken in the Conference that discouery may be made of many things which haue beene concealed hitherto from both of vs. Not that I imagine any noueltie can be found out in Religion God forbid that I should euer thinke so but that the meaner questions in controuersie being reconciled the impertinent ones omitted the greater may be insisted vpon to be cleared by more euident demonstrations Nor can either partie considering the points be already sufficiently discussed imagine that such a conference would be vnprofitable for although there can hardly be found more solid Arguments than those wherewith we haue serued our selues heretofore yet is it one thing to proue and another thing to satisfie now wee must not so much maintaine a side to vanquish as to winne those that are in the wrong And thus much I dare say and I will be able to make good against any contradiction that neither partie haue in any conference as yet taken that course which they ought and might haue followed for the satisfaction of the aduerse partie and the clearing of doubts For mine owne part though I be the meanest of

could not be saued without the Eucharist Which opinion of his euen our Catholikes themselues doe condemne Why then should the Huguenots be Heretikes rather for dissenting from S. Augustine in one Sacrament then the Catholikes are for disallowing his iudgement in the other The fourth point is the Worshipping of Images which was confirmed by the second Councell of Nice vnto which I may well oppose the Councell of Franckford celebrated since that of Nice which both contemned and condemned the authoritie of that Councell and the Decrees of it Neither does it make anything for our Aduersary to say that these testimonies are of weight enough amongst Catholikes for there were none in the Councell of Franckford but Catholikes and the Popes Legates themselues which assisted at it Obserue then all the Councels which our Aduersary hath rakt together against the Huguenots All of which excepting those three of Lateran Vienna Florence and this last of Nice are perticular and so by consequence their Decrees may be anulled and reuersed Further of these foure which by some are accounted generall the first that of Lateran I meane was by the sentence of Scotus and Stapleton two grand Catholikes subiect vnto error The words he vrgeth out of the second viz that of Vienna are nothing to the purpose The Iudgement of the third which is that of Florence is contrary to the Decrees of the Councels of Basile and Constance The last of Nice was condemned by that of Franckford wherefore then should the Huguenots giue way to the authoritie of such Councels from whom the Catholikes themselues yea Councels also of Catholikes themselues doe disagree how can wee hope then to conuert them by such proofes let vs call a new one then let vs giue indifferent audience to their Ministers let vs refute their Arguments to their very faces else shall wee neuer recall the Huguenots that are gone astray into the right way The second reason whereby our Aduersarie confutes the Huguenots i● Because they agree in doctrine with the ancient Heretikes viz the Arrians who as S. Augustine testifies reiected 1. Prayers for the dead 2. The set times of Fasting 3. The difference betwixt the Bishop and the ordinary Priest And 4. with Iouinian and Vigilantius in the point of Continencie and Virginitie 5. Merit and rewards of Saints 6. The Adoration of Reliques 7. The Inuocation of Saints 8. The Election of Meats I answer First That euen as a good Catholike may erre so may an Heretike also speake truth S. Cyprian and Ticonius the Donatist hauing diuersly interpreted a place of the holy Scriptures S. Augustine reiects S. Cyprians exposition and allowes that of Ticonius So that it is not enough barely to shew that an Heretike hath maintained such and such an opinion vnlesse he proue withall that the said opinion is hereticall Secondly I haue shewed in the former Chapter that the vse of things indifferent might be lawfull in the ancient Church and yet vnlawfull in this of ours so that the Huguenots may iustly blame the selfe-same things which the said Heretikes did vniustly except against vntill we can proue not only the things to be the same but also make it appeare that there is not now a greater abuse in the same things then there was then As for the opinions following the Huguenots will affirme that neither did the Fathers hold them in the same manner that the Catholikes now doe nor that the Heretikes tooke the same exceptions to them that the Huguenots now doe as we may perceiue by the examples following First as for Prayer for the Dead the Huguenots will affirme That the Church in the beginning celebrated only a Commemoration of the dead wherein as I shewed in the former Chapter they made mention likewise of the Apostles and of those that be already gone to heauen Now this Commemoration will the Huguenots say brought forth Prayer for the dead this Prayer brought forth Purgatorie Purgatorie Pardons and Pardons haue brought in pence into the Popes coffers Now will they say further that so long as these abuses were not in the Church if any man had found fault with this custome of Commemoration he should but haue shewed himselfe to be of a quarrelsome spirit yea they will further say that petty abuses especially such as bare a shew of Charitie might somewhat be winked at as Prayer for the Dead had which custome serued then also to stirre vp in the Pagans a better esteeme of the Christian faith but this occasion being now ceased and the abuses remaining so great as they affirme them to be t is now no time to winke at them any longer nor is there any other meanes left vs to reforme them then to take away the first occasion whence they proceeded thogh in themselues they be of no great consequence So that if we will shew wherein the Huguenots resemble the other ancient Heretikes in taking exceptions vnto Prayer for the dead we must shew withall how that the ancient Church vsed the same chaffering for Pardons and Indulgences for the deliuering of soules out of Purgatorie that the Church of Rome at this day doth Otherwise the abuse being not the same the things deserue not equall blame and they that finde fault with them are not alike faulty Touching set Fasting daies I am heartily sorry that he in giuing out that the Huguenots doe herein imitate the ancient Heretikes giues them aduantage to reuenge themselues vpon vs and to proue the cleane contrary namely that it is we that follow the ancient Heretikes for Eusebius saith That it was Montanus the Heretike who first set downe the Rules for Fasting seeing that before that these set Fasting daies were not ordained with any intention to bind the Consciences but for orders sake only Surely then he was not in the right whosoeuer found fault with them seeing there was at first no superstition in them But since that say the Huguenots the superstition is come to that height that the very day only because it is such or such a Saints Eue is esteemed much holyer th●n other daies So then this order hauing occasioned superstition to auoid this superstition wee may dispose otherwise of that order And now as concerning the difference betweene the Bishop and the ordinary Priest the Huguenots will say that at first they were both equall but that since then some amongst them haue beene promoted to dignity aboue the rest and at last One is become Monarch ouer them all Now will the Huguenots confesse that before this vniuersall Monarchy of the Pope there was not the like reason to blame the distinction of degrees in Pastors which in it selfe was tolerable and not altogether vnprofitable But they will say withall that it is most manifest how that the Fathers neuer held this distinction to haue beene instituted by God but onely to be a positiue ordinance of men to preserue as Saint Ierome saith the vnity of the Church A

King the Bishops the Clergie and likewise of all the people of France Admit it were so yet for all this does it not follow that it is receiued in France vnlesse hee can shew withall that all the Estates doe receiue it that is The Church the Nobility and the People But hee makes no mention of the Nobility but onely of the Church and the third Estate so that at the most it is receiued but of two of the three Estates which may be the cause that our Aduersary to keep vp the number diuides the Church into two parts viz. Bishops and Clergie The Councell saith hee is receiued of the Bishops the Clergie and likewise of all the people of France Which is a new diuision of the Estates neuer as I perswade my selfe heard of before Iudge then what iust occasion the Nobilitie of France now haue to reiect this Councell when as those who would haue the Councell receiued doe reiect the Nobility CAP. 6. That the Huguenots may very rightly bee accounted members of the Catholike Apostolike and Romane Church THis Chapter at the first blush seemes to treat of the same Argument that the first does for hauing there proued it That the Huguenots are of the same religion with vs Catholikes it may follow also that they bee of the same Church too And yet to my thinking these two Chapters may very well bee parted not so much in regard of the difference of the nature of the subiect as of the humours of the persons For commonly when a Huguenot would draw a Catholike to his opinion he begins euermore with the particular Controuersies and so vpon the purity of his doctrine hee inferres the verity of his Church A Catholike on the other side when hee would winne a Huguenot beginnes still with the Church and so by the verity of the Church concludes the purity of his doctrine and commonly when either of them gets the other out of this tracke they are to seeke which is one of the reasons that they cannot satisfie the aduerse partie For he that would perswade another must not begin with that principle which to him seemes best though indeed it be so but with that which seemes best in his opinion whom hee desires to perswade otherwise hee shall but lose his labour For when a Huguenot shall haue vrged a thousand passages of holy Scripture to proue the truth of his owne particular assertion hee shall not bee a whit the nearer and why For that a Catholike will say instantly with himselfe What though I cannot answer him yet another may and if I am to beleeue nothing which I am not able to maintaine by disputation then should I not beleeue the proceeding of the holy Ghost the vnion of both Natures in Iesus Christ the mysteries of the holy Trinity all which I haue beleeued without being able to maintain them or so much as vnderstand them And euen so the authority of the same Church which makes mee beleeue these mysteries without being able to maintaine them makes me also to beleeue the holy sacrament of the Altar Purgatory c. without being able to maintaine them So that if a Hugu proceeds no further does not shew a reason how a man may be assured of these mysteries without the Churches authority or else which I hold more reasonable why wee ought wholly to relye vpon the authority of the Church in one point and not in another hee shall neuer say ought to the purpose Nor can the Catholikes haue any happier success in their perswasiues for when they talke to the Huguenots of the Church how the Church saies this and the Church saies that and the Church cannot erre They who are not brought vp to such kinde of phrases and who found their faith vpon this perswasion That the Scripture is cleere on their sides What care wee will they say what the Church saith so long as wee agree in opinion with the word of God So that a Catholike shall neuer bee able to perswade them to any thing if hee beginnes not at their foundation and proue that the Scripture makes not so clearely for them as they imagine it does and then when they once perceiue that they cannot confute the Catholikes by Scripture they will bee compelld to confesse That a man can haue no assurance of his faith without submitting his own iudgment to the iudgment of the Church which as wee say according to Christs owne promise is infallibly accompanied with the holy Spirit For mine own part although it bee not my intention to entice any man either to one Religion or the other but to qualifie onely the passions of men yet for feare that I should commit the same errour in this Treatise of Pacification which they often doe in the course of their perswasiues I thoght good to subioine this Chapter also to the end that my reasons might be drawne from the principles of both Religions And thus hauing proued in the first Chapter by examination of the particular questions according to the Huguenots method That they be no Heretikes I was also desirous to adde this Chapter that according to the Catholikes manner of proceeding that is as much to say as according to the Nature of the Church I might also proue them the Huguenots to be no Heretikes For it were but labour lost to tell many of our Catholikes that the Huguenots hold many of the fundamentall points of faith as well as we seeing they take not the skantling of an heretike by his opinions but only by this marke That he is out of the Church vnderstanding thereby no other Church then that which we call Catholike Apostolike and Romane excluding all those out of the Church to whom these three titles may not be giuen what opinion soeuer they be of For which reason I resolued to proue that these three titles doe belong vnto the Huguenots And first touching the title of Catholike the Church is called Catholike in three respects First in regard of it selfe 2. In regard of the Iewes 3. In regard of Heretikes Now the Church is called Catholike in regard of it selfe because in the vniuersalitie thereof it comprehends all times and all places viz the whole number of the Elect as well those who haue beene since the beginning of the world and are now departed and triumphant in heauen enioying euerlasting blisse as those that are ordained to the like blessednesse whether now aliue or to be borne hereafter Which definition is founded vpon the Scriptures for S. Pauls words are The Church of the first-borne which are written in Heauen and who are written in heauen but the Elect from whom the reprobates are in this specialty distinguished That their names are not written in the Booke of the Lambe The Church then consists of the Elect who are not restrained to any place or time For Iesus Christ hath redeemed with his bloud saith Saint Iohn Out of euery kinred and tongue and people

taking the Empire as it now is then may the Churches of Germanie some of which haue shak't off the Popes authoritie be more properly stiled members of the Roman Church than Rome it selfe insomuch as Germanie and not Rome is at this day called the Roman Empire Lastly the Roman Church is vnderstood for all those that doe in Faith communicate with the Church of Rome that is to say those that be of the Romish Religion I demand then their meaning whether they vnderstand by the Romish Religion those points in which the Huguenots doe agree with vs or those wherein they disagree from vs or both the one and the other If those points wherein they agree with vs then they are directly of the Roman faith If for the points only wherein they dissent then are the beleefe in the Trinitie and all the Articles of the three Creeds of the Apostles of Nice and of Athanasius wherein they doe agree no Articles of the Romish Religion But if they take the Roman Religion for all the points of it together both for those wherein they doe agree and all the other too I demand once againe whether so exact an agreement in all points be required or not And if not then seeing that the points whereupon the Huguenots be agreed with the Catholikes be for number more and for importance greater than those questions are vpon which they disagree they may yet neuerthelesse be reputed to be of the Roman Church and Faith forasmuch as things for the most part take their Denomination from the better part Euen as we vse to say those people are of a sanguine cōplexion in whom bloud is predominant although their temper be of other humours too But if we affirme that no man can be of this Church vnlesse he beleeues all and the selfe-same that the Church of Rome doth then say I that whilest we goe about to proue that the Huguenots be not of our Church we shall shew withal that we haue not any one man who is absolutely of the Church insomuch as that there is no one man learned or vnlearned that beleeues all iust as the Church doth For it is the credit of our Doctors to maintaine singular opinions by themselues which may be the reason why Bellarmine the greatest Aduersarie to the Huguenots accuses all the Catholikes that euer were before him of Error and those especially which haue written against the Huguenots as Genebrard Pighius Eckius Hosius Canus Caietane Scotus Durand S. Bonauenture S. Thomas S. Damascene for he spares not the Saints neither the like courtesie also shewes he to the Ancient Fathers S. Augustine S. Bernard S. Chrysostome and much adoe he hath to let S. Paul alone So that amongst so many dissentions either hath the Church beleeued nothing at all or else hath the Church beleeued them altogether that is to say contradictions or else that the Church hath beleeued but only some of them and perchance they haue all beleeued contrary to what the Church beleeueth Come we now to the common people and they vnderstand not the one halfe part of that which we teach them and when wee tell them of such points of Diuinitie wherein they were neuer brought vp their fancies framing Idea's vnto themselues vpon what they heare make them conceiue Chimaera's in their braines and to beleeue the quite contrary to what the Church doth before they are well aware of it But our Catholikes now haue found out a remedie for that which is That an implicite Faith is enough for the common people which is as much to say as to thinke only to beleeue only as the Church doth though they doe not so indeed So then seeing that an implicite Faith is To beleeue the contrary and yet thinke they beleeue the same if we could but once perswade the Huguenots that they doe verily beleeue as our Church of Rome doth in euery thing although indeed they doe not they shall be of our Church See then if I haue not taken a better method to conuert them than any other Catholikes haue yet light vpon They labour to conuert them to our Explicite faith which were to make them beleeue all the particulars of our Faith And I perceiuing them altogether vncapable of this Explicite Faith haue endeuoured my selfe to make them embrace the Implicite Faith which is much the easier of the two and to perswade them to beleeue that they doe already beleeue as our Church beleeueth and consequently that their Faith is the same and their Church the same That so by this perswasion they may proue if not so good Catholiques as the Priests yet at least as good Catholiques as the people But to returne againe to my purpose it appeares by what hath beene said that if we stand for so strict an vnion in euery point then will not the Catholiques themselues neither learned nor vnlearned be of the Roman Church Forasmuch as the learned will not beleeue as the rest doe and the vnlearned cannot And would we content our selues with an essentiall vnion the Huguenots may then well be of it Whereupon it followes that we must needs yeeld to one of these That either the Huguenots are of the Roman Church or else that the Catholikes are not FINIS Errata in some Copies Pag. 54. l. 5. for Authoritie in the first place reade Articles End Henry 3. Henry 4. a Henry 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The first Reason Pag. 20. Pag. 21. Pag. 21. Pag. 21. The second Reason Lindanus in prefat in Lib. de querela pacis Scripture Pag. 23. Tom. 1. Contr. 1. l. cap. 4. Iustification Free-will Pag. 24. The Coniunction of Faith Grace p. 23. Merit of Workes Serm. 1. de anuntiatione Beatae Virginis Prayer Pag. 26. Tom. 1. Contr. 6. lib. 3. cap. 15. The Sacraments and their number Pag. 25. The difference betwixt our Sacraments and those of the old Law Pag. 26. Tom. 2. contr 1. lib. 2. cap. 1. The efficacie of Baptisme Pag. 23. Of Infants dying without Baptisme The Baptisme of Iohn Transubstantiation Pag. 26. Theod. Dialog Gelasius lib. de duabus naturis The Sacrifice of the Masse Pag. 26. Heb. 7. 10. Thomas part quest 83. Artic. 1. Aug. ad Bonifacium epist. 23. Penance Pag 26. In Annotat. ad lib. Tertull. de poenitent a. Purgatorie Pag 26. Lib. 21. de Civ Dei cap. 26. That the Church of Rome agrees not with the Primitiue Church in matter of ceremonies Signe of the Crosse. Pag. 27. Praying towards the East Pag. 28. Lib. 5. cap. 21. Inuocation of the Eucharist Blessing of the water in Baptisme Pag. 28. Homil. 25. in Iohan. Consecration and vse of Oyle in Baptisme Pag 28. Tertull lib. de corona militis Lent Epiphan haerest 75. Hieronim contra Lucif Sacrifice for the dead Baptisme of infants Mixture of water with the wine in the Chalice Perpetuall single life Solitary life Sozomen Histor. lib. 1. cap. 12. Orders of Monkes Athanasius ad Dracontium Election of Meates Tripartite 9. 38. Holy-daies Lib. 5. cap. 21. Soz. 7. 19. That the Huguenots are not to be blamed for leauing off the Ceremonies of the ancient Church Epist. 119. 19. 1 Consid. Aug. Epist. 112 2 Consid. Stapleton Princip Doctrin cont 4. lib. 6. cap. 15. Andradius defen●fid●●●dent Lib. 4. Co●cil Trid. Sess. 3. 3. Cons. ● Cons. Transubstantiation Councell of Lateran Councell of Vienna Councell of Florence Freewill Children dying without Baptisme Worshipping of Images That the Doctrine o● the Huguenots is not the same with that of the ancient Heretikes already condemned Retractat lib. 2. cap. 17. Prayer for the dead Set Fasting daies Euseb. 5. 16. Distinction of Bishops and Priests Comment in cap. 1. Epist. ●d Titum Mariage and Virginity Merits of Saints Worshipping of Saints and their Reliques Election of meats Durand l. 6 de aliis ieiuniis 〈◊〉 * En denier resort Sigonius de oceidentis Imp. l. ● Tom. 1. Cont. 4. Lib. 4. Cap. 9. Obiect 2. Obiect 3. Theod. l. 10. c. 70. 2. Reason 3. Reason 4. Reason Rab. Sal. ●archi in Deute onom 5. Reason Mat. 17. 1 Obiection 1 Reason 2 Reason 3 Reason The massacre Anno Dom. 1572 4 Reason 2. Obiection Catholike How the Church is called Catholike in respect of it selfe Heb. 12. 23. Reuel 13. 18. Reuel 5. 9. August de Catechizandis Rudibus cap. 12. Greg. Mor. in Iob. lib. 28. cap. 9. 2 Tim. 2. 19. How the Church is called Catholike in respect of the Iewes Mat. 13. Ephes. 2. 14. How the Church is called Catholike in regard of Heretikes Bernard in Cantica Sermone 38 Ephes. 5. Cant. 1. Vincent Lyr. l. aduers. haereses Eodem lib. adu haeres Tertul. lib de praescript adu haeres Apostolike How the Huguenots may be said to be of the Roman Church Rom. 1. 8. 1 Thess. 1. 8.

a Million who haue embroyled themselues in the disputes of the time yet dare I vndertake to reduce the points in controuersie to so short an issue and to set downe such a course for the handling thereof that more of the truth shall be discouered in this one conference than in all the other disputes which haue beene since Martin Luther first opposed himselfe against the Pope For both the issue shall bee so drawne and the meanes so disposed of that the persons of neither Religion keeping themselues to their owne proper Maximes shall be able to reiect them I should be too impudent to giue it out if I were not well assured of my abilitie for the performance But I am acquainted well enough with the euasions of either side I know their fallacies and I haue also the Art to preuent them But the time seemes not to be yet so fit for wee must haue our spirits quiet as well as our State and aboue all free from that same preiudication For if we Catholikes come to a Disputation being confident before hand that the Huguenots are already condemned for Heretikes And they on the other side that they vnderstand the Scriptures better than S. Austin and that all is cleare on their side to what purpose serues such a Conference The Priests and Ministers may seeme as confident as they please for they are our Teachers but we should not be so resolute for we are but Learners The end which they propose is the Victorie but the end which we seeke for is the Truth Which if wee haue found why looke we further But if we beleeue without searching we may very well be deceiued The chiefe reason then which induced me to reassume my designe of writing in this point of Moderation was that our spirits being something pacified wee might be the better prepared to a Conference and in that Conference make discouery of the Truth and by discouery of the Truth establish a Peace in the Church of God But I suspecting mine owne insufficiencie and fearing withall to bestow my labour in vaine and on the other side being wondrously desirous to see an vnion in Religion I chose rather to hazard that paines which I had already taken in publishing that answer which I had made before than to lose a new The reason then why I that am a Catholike doe rather blame the rigour of ours against the Huguenots than theirs against vs both parties being faulty much alike is because he that would reforme another must begin at himselfe The importunitie and arrogancie of mine Aduersarie vrges me sometimes to write not so like a Catholike which I doe not purposely to confute the Catholike Religion but to shew only That the errors of the Huguenots are not so grosse as our side perswades themselues they are And knowing also that no one thing hath more suppressed the Truth than the meane esteeme that the one partie hath of the others Arguments Which God knowes is meerly out of ignorance forsomuch as the deeper learned any man is the more difficultie he finds in confuting his Aduersarie For it is most certaine that Ignorance engenders Vehemencie and Vehemencie blinds vs from discouering the Truth For their ignorance that are in the rights makes those likewise the more vehement that are in the errour and the ignorance of those that are in errour blinds them the more See then the true intent of this my Discourse wherein though I may perchance haue vsed some Reasons which in too rigorous a Iudgement may be esteemed with the most in fauour of these new opinions yet is not my intent with them to seduce any man or to turne them from the Faith of their forefathers but only to purge their spirits from preiudication vntill further proofe be made And if such proofe be made without which I conceiue no hope of vnion in the Church I adiure thee beloued Reader of whether Religion soeuer thou beest to come with a spirit void of this preiudication Such a spirit I wish to thee as I protest I my selfe haue and I pray God to confirme in all of vs. Amen The Argument of the Booke THe Catholique Apologie hath endeuoured to acquit the Huguenots of heresie by two Reasons The first is for that the Religion pretended to be Reformed is not hereticall of it selfe for that the substance of the Catholique Faith is receiued by the Huguenots and that the Ceremonies which they haue reiected were vnknowne to the ancient Church of which two points viz. Doctrine and Ceremonies all Religion is composed The second is that their Religion hath not beene as yet condemned by any lawfull Iudgement because that before the Councell of Trent it was not condemned in any Generall Councell and that the Councell of Trent is neither lawfull of itselfe nor as yet approued of in France Vpon which consideration albeit that the Huguenots had wandred from the true faith yet ought we not to proceed against them as against Heretiques vntill they haue receiued an arrest of condemnation from a generall Councell no more th●n we can in iustice put a Malefactor to death although he be notoriously capable vntill he be cast by the Iury and hath had his triall The Author now of the Answer to this Apologie in the second part of his booke from the fifth Chapter to the fifteenth trauailes hard to refute the foresaid Reasons in the fifth Chapter he only propounds his Method in the sixth hee would shew that the Religion of the Huguenots is quite another from that of the Catholiques in the seuenth that the Ceremonies of the moderne Church of Rome were obserued in the Primitiue Church in the eight that the Doctrine pretended to be Reformed stands condemned by ancient Councels in the 9 10 11 12 13 and 14. he defends the Councell of Trent whereof the 11 12 and 13. are to proue that that Councell is absolutely lawfull and the 9 10 and 14. that it is receiued in France after which method I will also diuide my defence into these six Chapters 1. In my first I will proue against the reasons of his sixt Chapter that the Catholiques and Huguenots thus farre agree in Doctrine that they are both of one and the same Faith and Religion 2. In my second against his seuenth Chapter that neither the Catholiques nor the Huguenots doe accord with the Primitiue Church in the matter of Ceremonies and that for this reason the Huguenots are not to be condemned 3. In my third against his eighth that before the times of the Councell of Trent they stood not publikely and lawfully condemned 4. In my fourth against his 11 12 and 13. Chapters that the Councell of Trent is not lawfull 5. In my fifth against his 9 10 and 14. Chapter that it is not receiued in France 6. In my sixth and last I will conclude that the Huguenots may be good right be still reputed for members of the Catholique Apostolique and Roman Church CHAP. 1. That the