Selected quad for the lemma: opinion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
opinion_n	church_n	heresy_n	heretical_a	602	5	10.5324	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A19033	The plea for infants and elder people, concerning their baptisme, or, A processe of the passages between M. Iohn Smyth and Richard Clyfton wherein, first is proved, that the baptising of infants of beleevers, is an ordinance of God, secondly, that the rebaptising of such, as have been formerly baptised in the apostate churches of Christians, is utterly unlawful, also, the reasons and objects to the contrarie, answered : divided into two principal heads, I. Of the first position, concerning the baptising of infants, II. Of the second position, concerning the rebaptising of elder people.	Clyfton, Richard, d. 1616.	1610 (1610)	STC 5450; ESTC S1572	214,939	244

such_o imputation_n but_o yourself_o be_v become_v faulty_a in_o calumniate_a the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n viz_o the_o baptism_n of_o infant_n account_v it_o a_o antichristian_a error_n which_o i_o wish_v you_o well_o to_o consider_v of_o and_o not_o to_o add_v sin_n unto_o sin_n both_o in_o plead_v for_o error_n and_o in_o disgrace_v the_o truth_n and_o the_o professor_n thereof_o further_o you_o say_v it_o will_v not_o help_v i_o that_o these_o two_o truth_n have_v be_v condemn_v for_o heresy_n by_o the_o church_n in_o all_o age_n for_o if_o the_o apostle_n afford_v contrary_a to_o the_o succeed_a age_n that_o which_o be_v most_o ancient_a be_v the_o truth_n i_o grant_v if_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o the_o apostle_n age_n affoard_v contrary_a to_o the_o succeed_a age_n for_o the_o iustifieng_v of_o these_o your_o opinion_n that_o then_o you_o have_v good_a warrant_n of_o your_o side_n for_o call_v they_o truth_n but_o if_o the_o church_n which_o have_v condemn_v your_o position_n for_o error_n have_v agree_v herein_o with_o the_o holy_a scripture_n than_o i_o say_v the_o brand_n of_o heresy_n lie_v just_o upon_o they_o and_o whereas_o you_o allege_v that_o many_o truth_n whereunto_o we_o be_v come_v have_v be_v condemn_v for_o heretical_a in_o as_o many_o age_n as_o those_o truth_n which_o you_o defend_v i_o answer_v that_o not_o many_o truth_n if_o any_o which_o we_o hold_v to_o my_o remembrance_n have_v be_v condemn_v in_o the_o ancient_a church_n for_o heresy_n and_o suppose_v those_o church_n do_v fail_v in_o some_o thing_n as_o every_o church_n be_v subject_a to_o err_v yet_o follow_v it_o not_o that_o therefore_o they_o err_v in_o condemn_v your_o opinion_n for_o heresy_n some_o thing_n i_o think_v you_o will_v grant_v be_v heresy_n which_o those_o ancient_a church_n succeed_v the_o apostle_n age_n do_v condemn_v as_o those_o of_o arius_n eutiche_n macedonius_n and_o the_o rest_n and_o then_o be_v not_o their_o judgement_n so_o light_o to_o be_v pass_v over_o that_o no_o reckon_n be_v to_o be_v make_v of_o what_o they_o have_v do_v agreeable_a to_o the_o scripture_n as_o for_o your_o error_n we_o reject_v they_o not_o only_o because_o the_o ancient_a church_n have_v so_o censure_v they_o but_o find_v they_o contrary_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n therefore_o we_o condemn_v they_o 3._o whereas_o i_o do_v fear_v your_o broach_n of_o these_o and_o your_o former_a opinion_n will_v be_v offensive_a and_o to_o the_o hinder_v of_o the_o truth_n this_o you_o pass_v over_o in_o presume_v of_o the_o goodness_n of_o your_o cause_n say_v if_o any_o be_v hinder_v from_o the_o truth_n it_o will_v be_v their_o sin_n but_o if_o you_o fear_v you_o say_v that_o your_o antichristian_a church_n will_v fall_v to_o the_o ground_n i_o say_v it_o be_v that_o which_o be_v appoint_v to_o perdition_n and_o to_o perdition_n let_v it_o go_v indeed_o if_o any_o be_v hinder_v from_o the_o truth_n by_o the_o publish_n of_o the_o truth_n it_o be_v their_o sin_n mat._n 11._o 6._o but_o if_o you_o which_o have_v stand_v for_o the_o truth_n shall_v now_o by_o publish_v of_o error_n cause_n the_o truth_n to_o be_v the_o more_o blaspheme_v &_o give_v offence_n to_o weak_a professor_n that_o be_v your_o sin_n and_o will_v be_v too_o heavy_a to_o be_v answer_v at_o the_o judgement_n day_n if_o you_o repent_v not_o and_o as_o for_o our_o church_n which_o you_o blasphemous_o call_v antichristian_a know_v you_o that_o i_o do_v not_o fear_v the_o fall_n of_o it_o for_o it_o be_v build_v upon_o the_o foundation_n of_o the_o apostle_n &_o prophet_n jesus_n christ_n himself_o be_v the_o chief_a corner_n stone_n ephe._n 2_o 20._o which_o have_v a_o sure_a promise_n that_o the_o gate_n of_o hell_n shall_v not_o prevail_v against_o it_o mat._n 16._o 18._o and_o therefore_o your_o anathema_n can_v hurt_v we_o but_o shall_v rebound_v back_o again_o whence_o it_o come_v 4._o you_o say_v though_o i_o have_v profess_v to_o forsake_v my_o error_n upon_o their_o discovery_n and_o as_o i_o have_v practise_v for_o which_o i_o be_o reproach_v among_o your_o brethren_n yet_o i_o never_o profeess_v my_o readiness_n to_o be_v pervert_v from_o the_o truth_n which_o you_o call_v heresy_n and_o therefore_o if_o you_o do_v undertake_v to_o write_v upon_o this_o ground_n you_o may_v well_o have_v spare_v your_o pain_n and_o save_v yourself_o from_o so_o grevous_a a_o sin_n by_o plead_v for_o antichristian_a corruption_n etc._n etc._n the_o ground_n of_o my_o persuasion_n concern_v your_o willingness_n to_o yield_v unto_o the_o truth_n do_v arise_v partly_o from_o that_o persuasion_n which_o i_o have_v of_o your_o sanctification_n and_o partly_o from_o the_o speech_n of_o the_o messenger_n before_o name_v ●ho_fw-mi do_v affirm_v unto_o i_o that_o if_o i_o can_v manifest_v by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n ●hat_n it_o be_v error_n which_o you_o hold_v you_o will_v acknowledge_v it_o and_o still_o ●ou_fw-mi say_v if_o you_o be_v in_o error_n it_o be_v 71._o be_v passage_n page_v 71._o ignorant_o and_o therefore_o desirous_a of_o ●our_n good_a i_o do_v undertake_v according_a to_o my_o small_a ability_n to_o manifest_a ●he_n truth_n unto_o you_o by_o such_o reason_n as_o i_o can_v at_o that_o present_a gather_v for_o the_o confirmation_n of_o the_o same_o which_o see_v you_o make_v so_o small_a account_n of_o and_o answer_v i_o that_o i_o may_v have_v spare_v my_o pain_n and_o save_v myself_o from_o sin_n i_o be_o sorry_a in_o that_o respect_n that_o i_o do_v write_v yet_o in_o regard_n of_o witness_v the_o ●ruth_n and_o perform_v a_o duty_n towards_o a_o brother_n fall_v into_o error_n i_o repent_v ●e_v not_o neither_o yet_o of_o commit_v any_o grevous_a sin_n thereby_o as_o you_o charge_v i_o withal_o see_v i_o plead_v for_o that_o which_o be_v of_o christ_n and_o not_o for_o antichristian_a corruption_n and_o as_o for_o your_o error_n so_o often_o grace_v by_o you_o with_o the_o title_n of_o truth_n which_o you_o say_v you_o never_o profess_v to_o be_v pervert_v from_o i_o mervayle_v not_o great_o thereat_o for_o heresy_n be_v a_o work_n of_o the_o flesh_n gal._n 5._o 20._o that_o be_v easy_o and_o quick_o embrace_v but_o not_o so_o leave_v and_o herein_o differ_v from_o the_o truth_n to_o the_o receive_n whereof_o we_o be_v hardly_o draw_v as_o both_o you_o and_o i_o have_v experience_n but_o error_n drinck_v as_o a_o pleasant_a potion_n rev._n 18._o 3._o without_o resistance_n and_o bewitch_v many_o that_o they_o shall_v not_o obey_v the_o truth_n describe_v and_o plain_o manifest_v in_o their_o sight_n gal._n 3._o 1._o the_o poison_n whereof_o i_o be_o sorry_a have_v so_o infect_v your_o soul_n that_o you_o seem_v to_o be_v change_v into_o the_o nature_n thereof_o and_o to_o be_v as_o confident_a therein_o as_o in_o any_o truth_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o though_o you_o account_v my_o pray_v to_o be_v for_o a_o overthrow_n of_o the_o lord_n truth_n which_o be_v in_o deed_n for_o the_o conversion_n of_o you_o and_o that_o deceive_a company_n with_o you_o from_o your_o error_n yet_o will_v i_o pray_v still_o that_o god_n may_v open_v your_o eye_n if_o you_o belong_v to_o he_o to_o see_v your_o grevous_a fall_n &_o glorify_v the_o truth_n of_o god_n which_o in_o this_o your_o writing_n so_o great_o you_o have_v disgrace_v now_o i_o will_v come_v to_o answer_v the_o position_n with_o the_o reason_n thereof_o and_o first_o concern_v the_o former_a which_o be_v this_o 1._o that_o infant_n be_v not_o to_o be_v baptize_v touch_v this_o first_o position_n that_o infant_n be_v not_o to_o be_v baptize_v i_o read_v that_o auxentius_n one_o of_o the_o arrian_n sect_n with_o his_o adhe●nts_n be_v one_o of_o the_o first_o that_o deny_v the_o baptism_n of_o infant_n &_o 〈◊〉_d after_o he_o pelagius_n the_o heretic_n against_o who_o augustine_n &_o other_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n have_v oppose_v and_o condemn_v for_o heresy_n and_o that_o according_a to_o the_o scripture_n which_o by_o god_n grace_n we_o shall_v together_o with_o they_o also_o further_o manifest_a &_o prove_v by_o sound_a reason_n out_o of_o the_o word_n the_o lawfulness_n of_o baptise_v infant_n which_o first_o i_o will_v untertake_v and_o then_o answer_v the_o reason_n to_o the_o contrary_n mr_n smyth_n now_o in_o the_o next_o place_n you_o make_v a_o special_a preface_n to_o the_o first_o point_n affirm_v tha●_n baptism_n of_o infant_n be_v deny_v by_o auxentius_n the_o arrian_n &_o by_o pelagius_n etc._n etc._n rich_a clifton_n i_o say_v that_o auxentius_n the_o arrian_n be_v one_o of_o the_o first_o that_o deny_v the_o baptism_n of_o infant_n and_o then_o pelagius_n who_o augustine_n and_o other_o refute_v and_o condemn_v for_o heresy_n and_o you_o answer_v thus_o that_o one_o heretic_n condemn_v

than_o i_o hope_v it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o so_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o do_v for_o other_o ordinance_n also_o touch_v the_o error_n of_o the_o incarnation_n of_o christ_n which_o also_o mr._n smyth_n desire_v may_v not_o be_v impute_v unto_o they_o it_o be_v well_o know_v that_o many_o of_o their_o company_n hold_v that_o error_n about_o the_o incarnation_n be_v separate_v from_o the_o rest_n and_o mr._n smyth_n himself_o as_o some_o among_o they_o have_v report_v make_v a_o question_n about_o the_o first_o matter_n of_o christ_n humane_a nature_n as_o if_o it_o be_v not_o a_o point_n of_o faith_n to_o believe_v that_o it_o be_v of_o the_o virgin_n though_o it_o be_v to_o be_v believe_v that_o the_o second_o matter_n be_v nourish_v in_o her_o womb_n whether_o his_o hearer_n do_v wrong_v he_o in_o such_o report_n or_o how_o he_o rest_v satisfy_v it_o be_v best_o know_v to_o himself_o and_o be_v it_o that_o he_o stand_v clear_a of_o this_o error_n yet_o be_v be_v taint_v with_o the_o error_n of_o general_a redemption_n and_o free_a will_n else_o why_o have_v he_o give_v forth_o these_o position_n 1._o christ_n redemption_n strech_v to_o all_o man_n 2._o man_n have_v not_o lose_v the_o faculty_n of_o willing_a any_o good_a thing_n that_o be_v show_v he_o and_o with_o all_o add_v thereunto_o his_o reason_n in_o defence_n thereof_o now_o let_v the_o reader_n judge_v what_o cause_n he_o have_v to_o desire_v that_o these_o thing_n shall_v not_o be_v impute_v unto_o they_o last_o mr._n smyth_n take_v upon_o he_o to_o advertise_v our_o church_n say_v let_v the_o separation_n be_v advertise_v that_o whereas_o they_o do_v so_o confident_o through_o their_o self-love_n &_o self_n conceit_n fill_v their_o mouth_n with_o heresy_n and_o heretic_n as_o thereby_o they_o will_v fear_v babe_n that_o therein_o they_o tread_v in_o the_o step_n of_o all_o the_o antichristian_o their_o predecessor_n etc._n etc._n for_o this_o his_o advertisement_n if_o any_o have_v speak_v otherwise_o then_o be_v meet_v i_o be_o no_o patron_n of_o any_o such_o speech_n but_o if_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o john_n to_o call_v the_o phariseis_n generation_n of_o viper_n and_o paul_n to_o say_v to_o elimas_n oh_o full_a of_o subtlety_n &_o all_o mischeiffe_n etc._n etc._n then_o be_v it_o not_o simple_o unlawful_a to_o use_v such_o speech_n so_o it_o be_v for_o reproof_n and_o not_o for_o reproach_n therefore_o to_o call_v they_o heretic_n and_o their_o opinion_n heresy_n it_o be_v true_a and_o speak_v in_o detestation_n of_o their_o error_n not_o of_o their_o person_n i_o see_v no_o evil_a in_o so_o say_v see_v these_o place_n io._n 8._o 44._o 2._o pet._n 2._o 1._o 2._o 1._o io._n 2._o 18._o act._n 13._o 10._o gal._n 3._o 1._o rev._n 2._o 6._o 15._o and_o if_o this_o be_v a_o fault_n in_o we_o why_o do_v mr._n smyth_n fill_v his_o mouth_n with_o antichristian_a error_n so_o call_v those_o truth_n which_o we_o hold_v have_v he_o a_o dispensation_n so_o to_o speak_v against_o the_o truth_n and_o yet_o to_o blame_v we_o for_o call_v their_o false_a doctrynes_n heresy_n i_o shall_v rather_o have_v think_v that_o he_o ought_v to_o have_v advertise_v himself_o for_o these_o reproachful_a &_o sclanderous_a speech_n that_o he_o have_v utter_v against_o our_o church_n &_o the_o teacher_n thereof_o call_v they_o re●_n they_o char●●_n epistle_n the_o re●_n rabbi_n of_o the_o separation_n the_o great_a rabbi_n and_o thus_o speak_v to_o the_o church_n be_v it_o know_v to_o the_o separation_n that_o we_o account_v they_o in_o respect_n of_o their_o constitution_n as_o very_o a_o harlot_n as_o either_o her_o mother_n england_n or_o her_o grandmother_n rome_n we_o protest_v against_o she_o as_o well_o for_o her_o false_a constitution_n as_o for_o her_o false_a ministry_n worship_n and_o government_n i_o can_v wish_v as_o the_o tyrant_n wish_v concern_v the_o people_n of_o rome_n that_o all_o their_o head_n be_v join_v into_o one_o we_o desire_v the_o separation_n they_o will_v not_o in_o craftiness_n withdraw_v from_o the_o combat_n we_o require_v they_o nay_o we_o charge_v they_o yea_o we_o chalendg_v they_o to_o the_o defence_n of_o their_o error_n we_o protest_v against_o they_o to_o be_v a_o false_a church_n they_o tread_v in_o the_o step_n of_o all_o the_o antichristian_o their_o predecessor_n let_v they_o take_v heed_n that_o notwithstanding_o their_o syrenes_n song_n they_o prove_v not_o cage_n full_a of_o most_o ugly_a and_o deform_a antichristian_a heretic_n all_o these_o reproachful_a speech_n if_o not_o more_o have_v he_o publish_v in_o less_o than_o a_o sheet_n of_o paper_n besides_o what_o be_v contain_v in_o his_o book_n and_o yet_o notwithstanding_o all_o these_o speech_n have_v thus_o pass_v from_o he_o he_o take_v upon_o he_o to_o advertise_v we_o for_o that_o we_o can_v justify_v against_o his_o doctrine_n &_o against_o themselves_o for_o their_o obstinate_a defend_n of_o their_o error_n but_o where_o he_o charge_v we_o to_o call_v they_o heretic_n &_o their_o doctrine_n heresy_n through_o self_n love_n and_o self_n conceatednes_n etc._n etc._n if_o he_o have_v apply_v self_n love_n and_o conceit_n to_o himself_o i_o take_v it_o he_o may_v more_o just_o have_v do_v it_o if_o we_o may_v judge_v by_o his_o word_n as_o for_o self_n love_n and_o self_n conceit_n we_o condemn_v in_o whosoever_o and_o howsoever_o we_o have_v our_o infirmity_n i_o trust_v he_o shalnot_v be_v able_a to_o tax_v any_o of_o we_o just_o of_o these_o imputation_n and_o as_o mr._n smyth_n wish_v we_o not_o to_o be_v wise_a in_o our_o own_o eye_n through_o pride_n etc._n etc._n we_o hope_v the_o lord_n will_v so_o teach_v us._n and_o we_o pray_v the_o lord_n to_o geve_v he_o a_o sight_n of_o his_o damnable_a heresy_n whereinto_o he_o be_v fall_v open_o sin_v in_o the_o publish_n thereof_o to_o the_o great_a dishonour_n of_o god_n and_o greiffe_n of_o all_o the_o godly_a and_o that_o the_o almighty_a may_v preserve_v all_o that_o be_v his_o choose_a from_o be_v poison_v with_o the_o same_o richard_n clyfton_n the_o process_n of_o the_o passage_n between_o mr_n john_n smyth_n and_o richard_n clifton_n mr_n smyth_n certain_a reason_n propound_v to_o mr_n rich._n clifton_n concern_v the_o two_o proposition_n follow_v 1._o that_o infant_n be_v not_o to_o be_v baptize_v 1._o because_o there_o be_v neither_o precept_n nor_o example_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n of_o any_o infant_n that_o be_v baptize_v by_o john_n or_o christ_n disciple_n only_o they_o that_o do_v confess_v their_o sin_n and_o confess_v their_o faith_n be_v baptize_v marc._n 1._o 4._o 5._o act._n 8._o 37._o 2._o because_o christ_n command_v to_o make_v disciple_n by_o teach_v they_o and_o then_o to_o baptize_v they_o mat._n 28_o 19_o joh._n 4._o 1._o but_o infant_n can_v by_o doctrine_n become_v christ_n disciple_n and_o so_o can_v by_o the_o rule_n of_o christ_n be_v baptize_v 3._o because_o if_o infant_n be_v baptize_v the_o carnal_a seed_n be_v baptize_v and_o so_o the_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n be_v administer_v to_o they_o unto_o who_o the_o covenant_n appertain_v not_o rom_n 9_o 8._o which_o be_v a_o profanation_n 2._o that_o antichristian_o convert_v be_v to_o be_v admit_v into_o the_o true_a church_n by_o baptism_n 1._o because_o church_n be_v so_o to_o be_v constitute_v now_o after_o the_o defection_n of_o antichrist_n as_o they_o be_v first_o erect_v by_o the_o apostle_n but_o in_o the_o constitution_n of_o church_n the_o apostle_n receive_v in_o the_o member_n by_o baptism_n go_v so_o must_v we_o do_v now_o 2._o because_o true_a baptism_n be_v but_o one_o but_o the_o baptism_n of_o antichrist_n be_v not_o true_a baptism_n and_o so_o not_o that_o one_o baptism_n of_o christ_n but_o all_o member_n of_o christ_n must_v have_v true_a baptism_n 3._o because_o as_o the_o false_a church_n be_v reject_v and_o the_o true_a erect_v the_o false_a ministry_n forsake_v and_o the_o true_a receive_v so_o false_a worship_n and_o by_o consequent_a baptism_n must_v ●e_v renounce_v and_o the_o true_a baptism_n assume_v richard_n clifton_n a_o answer_n to_o two_o anabaptisticall_a opinion_n with_fw-mi videlicet_fw-la 1._o that_o infant_n be_v not_o to_o be_v baptize_v 2._o that_o antichristian_o convert_v be_v to_o be_v admit_v into_o the_o true_a church_n by_o baptism_n although_o with_o great_a sorrow_n i_o be_o force_v to_o undertake_v this_o business_n against_o he_o that_o be_v dear_a unto_o i_o yet_o be_v thereunto_o provoke_v by_o the_o send_n to_o i_o these_o two_o position_n with_o certain_a reason_n annex_v under_o the_o author_n own_o hand_n i_o think_v it_o my_o part_n although_o the_o unabl_a of_o many_o to_o contend_v for_o the_o maintenance_n of_o the_o faith_n which_o be_v once_o give_v to_o the_o saint_n jud._n 3._o and_o by_o the_o

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another_o contrary_a to_o the_o scripture_n for_o the_o truth_n sake_n that_o augustine_n be_v a_o heretic_n and_o condemn_a auxentius_n for_o the_o truth_n contrary_a to_o the_o scripture_n rest_v for_o you_o to_o prove_v if_o you_o can_v i_o have_v already_o prove_v that_o the_o deny_v of_o baptism_n to_o infant_n be_v a_o error_n &_o you_o have_v not_o in_o all_o this_o your_o writing_n confute_v the_o same_o as_o will_v appear_v in_o the_o answer_n and_o here_o let_v it_o be_v observe_v that_o you_o acknowledge_v auxentius_n &_o pelagius_n to_o be_v heretic_n &_o so_o these_o your_o error_n to_o have_v be_v first_o broach_v by_o man_n just_o condemn_v for_o heresy_n for_o you_o say_v one_o heretic_n condemn_v another_o further_n concern_v the_o father_n by_o i_o allege_v in_o the_o 6._o page_n of_o my_o writing_n to_o show_v the_o practice_n of_o church_n in_o baptise_v of_o infant_n you_o pass_v they_o over_o with_o this_o answer_n say_v i_o can_v prove_v that_o augustine_n 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many_o nation_n gen._n 17._o 4._o also_o gal._n 3._o 13._o 14._o christ_n be_v say_v to_o redeem_v we_o from_o the_o curse_n of_o the_o law_n that_o the_o blessing_n of_o abraham_n may_v come_v on_o the_o gentile_n through_o jesus_n christ_n that_o we_o may_v receive_v the_o promise_n of_o the_o spirit_n see_v vers_fw-la 8._o 9_o now_o than_o if_o we_o be_v partaker_n of_o the_o same_o covenant_n for_o otherwise_o abraham_n covenaunt_n shall_v not_o be_v a_o everlasting_a covenant_n gen._n 17._o 7._o see_v his_o posterity_n after_o the_o flesh_n be_v cut_v off_o for_o a_o time_n rom._n 11._o 15._o 17._o 20._o it_o must_v follow_v that_o the_o same_o must_v be_v seal_v to_o we_o and_o to_o our_o infant_n else_o it_o be_v not_o the_o same_o &_o that_o by_o the_o commandment_n of_o god_n for_o the_o abolish_n of_o circumcision_n &_o the_o bring_n in_o of_o baptism_n under_o the_o gospel_n do_v not_o abrogate_v or_o disannul_v the_o commandment_n of_o seal_v the_o covenaunt_n to_o the_o believe_a parent_n with_o their_o infant_n which_o be_v once_o command_v to_o abraham_n but_o only_o show_v a_o change_n of_o the_o outward_a sign_n and_o therefore_o as_o the_o covenant_n belong_v to_o the_o gentile_n believe_v so_o do_v the_o seal_n thereof_o to_o they_o &_o to_o their_o seed_n as_o it_o do_v to_o abraham_n &_o to_o his_o seed_n the_o outward_a ceremony_n only_o change_v mr_n smyth_n to_o this_o argument_n i_o make_v answer_n thus_o first_o distinguish_v the_o two_o cove●nts_n or_o testament_n for_o a_o covenant_n &_o testament_n be_v all_o one_o in_o the_o original_n though_o ●he_n english_a word_n be_v two_o one_o covenant_n be_v make_v with_o abraham_n and_o his_o car●al_a seed_n and_o of_o that_o covenant_n be_v circumcision_n a_o seal_n another_o covenant_n make_v with_o abraham_n and_o his_o spiritual_a seed_n and_o of_o that_o covenant_n the_o holy_a spirit_n of_o promise_n be_v the_o seal_n for_o ●he_n carnal_a covenant_n have_v a_o carnal_a seal_n upon_o the_o carnal_a seed_n the_o spiritual_a covenant_n have_v a_o spiritual_a seal_n upon_o the_o spiritual_a seed_n for_o thing_n must_v be_v make_v proportionable_a &_o circumcision_n which_o be_v a_o carnal_a seal_n can_v not_o seal_v up_o the_o spiritual_a covenant_n to_o the_o spiritual_a seed_n for_o to_o say_v so_o be_v to_o leap_v over_o the_o hedge_n and_o to_o make_v a_o disproportion_n betwixt_o the_o type_n and_o the_o truth_n etc._n etc._n rich_a clifton_n here_o you_o say_v that_o two_o covenant_n be_v make_v with_o abraham_n a_o carnal_a &_o a_o spiritual_a the_o one_o with_o abraham_n and_o his_o carnal_a seed_n the_o other_o with_o he_o and_o his_o spiritual_a seed_n i_o answer_v first_o that_o god_n make_v with_o abraham_n but_o one_o covenaunt_n of_o salvation_n which_o be_v that_o god_n will_v be_v his_o god_n and_o the_o god_n of_o his_o seed_n gen._n 17._o 7._o luk._n 1._o 72._o and_o this_o covenant_n be_v 11._o be_v gen._n 17._o 10._o 11._o r●_n 4._o 11._o seal_v with_o circumcision_n and_o it_o be_v the_o same_o covenant_n that_o be_v establish_v by_o the_o 12._o the_o 2_o cor._n 16_o heb._n 8._o 10_o 12._o blood_n of_o christ_n unto_o all_o the_o faithful_a seed_n seal_v under_o the_o gospel_n 19_o gospel_n mat._n 19_o by_o baptism_n in_o stead_n of_o circumcision_n other_o covenant_n that_o be_v give_v for_o salvation_n to_o abraham_n and_o his_o seed_n the_o scripture_n know_v none_o in_o this_o covenant_n be_v promise_v through_o jesus_n christ_n remission_n of_o sin_n justification_n life_n everlasting_a with_o all_o save_a grace_n to_o all_o that_o 11._o that_o heb._n 8._o ●_o jer._n 31._o 34._o act._n 13._o 38._o 39_o heb._n 9_o 15._o 1_o cor._n 1_o 30._o rom._n 4._o 11._o believe_v and_o that_o this_o be_v so_o the_o

and_o worship_v he_o though_o corrupt_o profess_v also_o many_o of_o his_o truth_n which_o neither_o the_o sodomite_n egyptian_n babylonian_n or_o gentile_n do_v and_o therefore_o be_v not_o comparable_a with_o the_o heathen_a in_o all_o respect_n much_o less_o to_o be_v hold_v the_o worst_a kind_n of_o paganism_n for_o in_o paganism_n it_o be_v never_o hear_v that_o god_n have_v his_o people_n yet_o in_o antichristian_a babylon_n the_o spirit_n witness_v that_o he_o have_v his_o people_n among_o they_o and_o so_o many_o truth_n of_o god_n be_v therein_o teach_v as_o thereby_o god_n elect_v do_v come_v to_o some_o knowledge_n of_o god_n and_o to_o faith_n so_o can_v none_o do_v in_o paganism_n by_o any_o doctrine_n there_o teach_v 2._o i_o declare_v plain_o the_o difference_n between_o the_o apostasy_n of_o antichrist_n and_o israel_n a●●_n a●●_n in_o this_o that_o israel_n apostasy_n do_v not_o destroy_v the_o true_a constitution_n of_o the_o church_n but_o antichrist_n apostasy_n do_v raze_v the_o true_a apostolic_a constitution_n for_o the_o true_a constitution_n of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v of_o carnal_a israelite_n or_o proselyte_n circumcise_v and_o so_o long_o as_o they_o retain_v circumcision_n in_o the_o land_n of_o canaan_n they_o reieyn_v a_o true_a constitution_n though_o there_o apostasy_n be_v never_o so_o great_a etc._n etc._n this_o which_o you_o say_v be_v a_o plain_a difference_n be_v none_o at_o all_o it_o be_v your_o false_a re._n re._n ground_n that_o deceive_v you_o the_o reason_n of_o your_o difference_n will_v not_o hold_v for_o if_o retain_v of_o circumcision_n preserve_v the_o constitution_n of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n though_o their_o apostasy_n be_v never_o so_o great_a as_o you_o say_v it_o do_v then_o shall_v the_o retain_v of_o baptism_n in_o the_o great_a apostasy_n preserve_v the_o church_n constitution_n under_o the_o new_a testament_n but_o this_o you_o deny_v ergo_fw-la the_o other_o can_v not_o stand_v see_v baptism_n by_o your_o own_o confession_n pr●f●_n confession_n char_n 〈…〉_o in_o the_o pr●f●_n be_v the_o constition_n of_o the_o church_n under_o the_o gospel_n as_o circumcision_n be_v of_o the_o old_a church_n now_o if_o this_o be_v true_a doctrine_n which_o you_o teach_v i_o pray_v you_o show_v we_o some_o reason_n why_o apostasy_n more_o rase_v the_o constitution_n of_o the_o church_n now_o than_o it_o do_v under_o the_o law_n for_o circumcision_n be_v as_o corrupt_o administer_v by_o the_o apostate_n israelites_n as_o baptism_n be_v by_o the_o antichristian_o but_o your_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n constitution_n fail_v you_o in_o hold_v the_o sacrament_n to_o be_v the_o constitution_n thereof_o 〈◊〉_d they_o appertain_v unto_o it_o yet_o can_v they_o not_o be_v count_v the_o whole_a constitution_n of_o the_o church_n and_o if_o this_o shall_v be_v grant_v you_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o if_o israel_n constitution_n be_v carnal_a for_o circumcision_n you_o say_v be_v carnal_a so_o shall_v the_o constitution_n of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v carnal_a also_o see_v baptism_n be_v a_o external_a ordinance_n as_o well_o as_o circumcision_n be_v and_o both_o alike_o carnal_a in_o that_o respect_n and_o therefore_o you_o must_v either_o renounce_v this_o opinion_n or_o else_o grant_v that_o the_o constitution_n of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v spiritual_a &_o then_o all_o your_o building_n be_v overthrow_v but_o to_o prove_v that_o israel_n retain_v a_o true_a constitution_n in_o their_o apostasy_n you_o allege_v hosea_n the_o four_o say_v though_o their_o apostasy_n be_v never_o so_o great_a th●_n their_o worship_n ministry_n and_o government_n as_o it_o be_v to_o be_v see_v in_o hosea_n 4._o 6._o 8._o 12._o yet_o they_o retain_v a_o true_a constitution_n so_o long_o as_o they_o retain_v circumcision_n in_o the_o land_n of_o canaan_n i_o answer_v although_o the_o lord_n call_v israel_n his_o people_n he_o do_v it_o in_o regard_n of_o his_o covenant_n former_o make_v to_o their_o forefather_n &_o not_o in_o respect_n of_o their_o present_a outward_a estate_n the_o prophet_n say_v there_o shall_v be_v like_o people_n like_o priest_n and_o in_o verse_n 12._o they_o be_v charge_v to_o go_v a_o whore_v from_o under_o their_o god_n how_o can_v this_o people_n be_v say_v to_o stand_v in_o a_o true_a constitution_n or_o covenant_n with_o god_n that_o go_v a_o whore_v from_o under_o their_o god_n have_v rome_n do_v any_o more_o than_o this_o the_o people_n *_o perish_a for_o want_v of_o knowledge_n 6_o hose_n 4._o 6_o and_o the_o lord_n reject_v their_o minister_n from_o be_v he_o because_o they_o refuse_v 12_o hose_n 4._o 12_o knowledge_n the_o israelite_n do_v †_o ask_v counsel_n at_o their_o stock_n and_o the_o spirit_n of_o fornication_n cause_v they_o to_o err_v &_o they_o sacrifice_v to_o strange_a god_n etc._n etc._n 9_o thron_n 13_o ●_o king_n ●_o 31._o ●hr_fw-ge 11._o 14_o ●_o chron._n ●●_o ●ers_n 8._o &_o ●rse_o 9_o “_o jeroboam_fw-la drive_v away_o the_o true_a prophet_n &_o place_v priest_n after_o his_o own_o devise_n israel_n set_v up_o a_o other_o government_n and_o *_o refuse_v the_o government_n of_o the_o lord_n †_o have_v a_o false_a ministry_n and_o worship_n what_o more_o can_v be_v say_v of_o rome_n then_o be_v here_o say_v of_o apostate_n israel_n and_o what_o though_o the_o prophet_n abijah_n do_v not_o charge_n israel_n with_o a_o false_a constitution_n but_o with_o the_o other_o particular_n before_o mention_v yet_o that_o suffice_v to_o declare_v that_o they_o have_v break_v covenant_n with_o god_n which_o what_o be_v it_o else_o but_o to_o depart_v from_o their_o primitive_a constitution_n need_v a_o man_n to_o say_v any_o more_o to_o prove_v that_o a_o wise_a have_v violate_v the_o bond_n of_o marriage_n but_o that_o she_o have_v play_v the_o whore_n and_o follow_v other_o lover_n and_o so_o much_o have_v the_o prophet_n testify_v of_o israel_n 15_o ●_o chro._n 15_o azariah_n bear_v witness_n against_o israel_n thus_o †_o now_o for_o a_o long_a season_n israel_n have_v be_v without_o the_o true_a god_n &_o without_o priest_n to_o teach_v and_o without_o law_n and_o this_o be_v ●n_v the_o time_n of_o asa_n king_n of_o juda_n also_o eliah_n complain_v 10._o complain_v ●_o 〈◊〉_d 10._o that_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n have_v forsake_v the_o covenant_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o this_o be_v in_o the_o day_n of_o ahab_n now_o it_o can_v be_v that_o they_o that_o have_v forsake_v god_n covenant_n can_v be_v a_o true_a constitute_v church_n so_o continue_v &_o also_o which_o be_v without_o god_n and_o without_o his_o law_n etc._n etc._n c●n_v you_o say_v more_o against_o the_o antichristian_o and_o they_o you_o deny_v to_o be_v a_o true_a church_n and_o yet_o you_o justify_v israel_n withal_o her_o abomination_n but_o let_v we_o consider_v further_a of_o the_o difference_n you_o make_v between_o israel_n and_o antichristianisme_n you_o say_v that_o antichrist_n have_v not_o only_o set_v up_o a_o false_a government_n etc._n etc._n but_o also_o a_o false_a constitution_n ans_fw-fr ans_fw-fr of_o the_o church_n for_o whereas_o the_o true_a apostolic_a constitution_n be_v of_o baptise_a disciple_n that_o confess_v their_o sin_n and_o their_o faith_n he_o have_v foist_v in_o a_o false_a matter_n of_o ●_o church_n viz._n infant_n and_o person_n unbaptise_v and_o so_o a_o false_a form_n etc._n etc._n i_o answer_v 1._o that_o the_o apostolic_a constitution_n do_v not_o shut_v out_o the_o child_n re._n re._n of_o believer_n as_o i_o have_v former_o prove_v 2._o i_o justify_v neither_o the_o matter_n nor_o form_n of_o antichrist_n church_n neither_o their_o ministry_n worship_n nor_o government_n they_o have_v in_o all_o these_o corrupt_a the_o way_n of_o god_n but_o the_o falsehood_n you_o tax_v they_o of_o in_o their_o matter_n &_o form_n be_v the_o baptise_v of_o infant_n otherwise_o if_o they_o have_v baptize_v person_n confess_v their_o sin_n etc._n etc._n their_o constitution_n have_v be_v with_o you_o apostolic_a such_o a_o deadly_a feud_n have_v you_o against_o infant_n that_o to_o admit_v they_o to_o baptism_n make_v a_o false_a church_n for_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o baptise_v child_n you_o may_v be_v satisfy_v before_o if_o the_o eye_n sight_n of_o your_o soul_n be_v not_o quite_o put_v out_o your_o say_n that_o infant_n be_v no_o more_o capable_a of_o baptism_n then_o be_v a_o fool_n or_o madman_n or_o pagan_a argue_v in_o you_o the_o want_n of_o spiritual_a wisdom_n but_o that_o which_o you_o drive_v at_o in_o this_o your_o bitterness_n against_o infant_n be_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o church_n of_o antichrist_n be_v constitute_v of_o a_o false_a matter_n viz_o infant_n uncapable_a of_o baptism_n and_o a_o false_a form_n viz._n infant_n unable_a to_o enter_v into_o the_o new_a testament_n etc._n

god_n thus_o dispose_v that_o the_o infant_n of_o the_o faithful_a may_v be_v capable_a thereof_o &_o seal_v up_o for_o the_o lord_n as_o well_o as_o their_o parent_n and_o it_o be_v to_o be_v note_v that_o the_o desire_v or_o offer_v to_o receiv_v baptism_n be_v a_o action_n differ_v from_o the_o thing_n desire_v &_o so_o not_o a_o part_n of_o the_o same_o as_o for_o your_o mutual_a consent_n of_o both_o person_n contract_v together_o it_o must_v be_v understand_v of_o god_n with_o the_o faithful_a &_o their_o seed_n for_o such_o be_v the_o contract_n or_o covenant_n make_v with_o abraham_n which_o continue_v still_o in_o force_n to_o all_o believer_n &_o their_o seed_n &_o this_o precede_v baptism_n &_o be_v no_o part_n of_o the_o external_a form_n thereof_o gen._n 17._o 1_o 7._o etc._n etc._n act._n 2_o 39_o and_o for_o that_o form_n of_o baptise_v in_o popery_n with_o credis_fw-la &_o credo_fw-la etc._n etc._n which_o other_o speak_v for_o the_o infant_n declare_v as_o you_o say_v that_o there_o must_v needs_o be_v a_o mutual_a contract_n etc._n etc._n you_o know_v very_o well_o how_o it_o be_v continue_v upon_o a_o blind_a custom_n &_o imitation_n because_o such_o as_o be_v to_o be_v receive_v into_o the_o church_n in_o the_o primitive_a time_n and_o to_o be_v baptize_v be_v of_o year_n do_v make_v confession_n of_o their_o faith_n &_o answer_v to_o such_o interrogatory_n as_o be_v demand_v of_o they_o concern_v the_o same_o this_o the_o papist_n apply_v to_o infant_n the_o question_n be_v answer_v by_o the_o godfather_n who_o be_v say_v to_o be_v bring_v in_o by_o higinus_n before_o who_o time_n the_o parent_n present_v their_o child_n to_o be_v baptize_v this_o corrupt_a custom_n &_o apish_a imitation_n yourself_o have_v condemn_v yet_o now_o have_v cast_v off_o baptism_n itself_o you_o scrape_v in_o the_o filthy_a dungehill_n of_o popery_n to_o advantage_n yourself_o against_o the_o truth_n who_o practice_n you_o know_v condemn_v your_o opinion_n of_o not_o baptise_v of_o infant_n if_o if_o therefore_o you_o will_v crave_v their_o testimony_n for_o your_o form_n of_o baptism_n why_o despise_v you_o their_o witness_n of_o baptise_v of_o infant_n which_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o thus_o much_o for_o answer_v to_o your_o description_n of_o baptism_n now_o concern_v the_o outward_a ceremony_n of_o baptism_n the_o scripture_n 6._o mat._n 3._o 11._o 16._o ●ar_n 1._o 10_o act._n 8._o 38_o mat_n 28._o ●_o ●_o jo._n 1._o 7_o act._n 2._o 38_o ●_o 3._o 19_o gal._n 3._o 27_o rom_n 6._o 3_o ●_o col._n 2._o 12_o ●_o 3._o 5._o 6._o thus_o teach_v that_o the_o element_n in_o this_o sacrament_n be_v *_o water_n only_o the_o form_n of_o administer_a thereof_o christ_n command_v thus_o †_o baptise_v they_o into_o the_o name_n of_o the_o father_n and_o of_o the_o son_n &_o of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n this_o be_v that_o which_o the_o lord_n have_v institute_v whereby_o he_o will_v signify_v and_o seal_v unto_o his_o people_n “_o the_o remission_n of_o their_o sin_n *_o and_o the_o engraff_n into_o christ_n †_o the_o mortification_n of_o the_o old_a man_n and_o renew_v of_o the_o spirit_n this_o be_v the_o substance_n of_o this_o ceremony_n and_o be_v find_v to_o be_v still_o retain_v in_o the_o apostate_n church_n and_o therefore_o although_o it_o have_v be_v pollute_v by_o the_o hand_n of_o apostate_n as_o the_o vessel_n of_o the_o temple_n be_v by_o the_o babylonian_n and_o by_o add_v of_o humane_a invention_n yet_o be_v it_o in_o substance_n that_o which_o christ_n ordain_v in_o his_o church_n neither_o the_o element_n nor_o form_n of_o administration_n change_v and_o therefore_o not_o to_o be_v iterate_v your_o three_o answer_n 3._o i_o answer_v that_o if_o the_o antichristian_o have_v baptize_v person_n confess_v their_o sin_n &_o their_o faith_n into_o the_o name_n of_o the_o son_n of_o god_n and_o the_o trinity_n it_o have_v be_v true_a baptism_n though_o in_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o antichristian_o etc._n etc._n first_o you_o confess_v then_o that_o the_o apostasy_n of_o antichrist_n be_v not_o so_o great_a but_o that_o in_o the_o papal_a church_n there_o may_v be_v true_a baptism_n not_o to_o be_v iterate_v that_o they_o baptize_v with_o water_n into_o the_o name_n of_o the_o father_n and_o of_o the_o son_n and_o of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n can_v not_o be_v deny_v all_o that_o you_o except_v against_o be_v the_o administer_a of_o it_o to_o infant_n &_o so_o this_o second_o question_n be_v answer_v in_o the_o former_a for_o if_o the_o infant_n be_v to_o be_v baptize_v then_o stand_v their_o baptism_n good_a without_o repeat_v which_o they_o have_v in_o apostate_n church_n last_o where_o i_o say_v that_o the_o want_v of_o a_o lawful_a calling_n to_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n make_v not_o a_o nullity_n thereof_o instance_v the_o circumcision_n of_o the_o israelite_n by_o apostat_n and_o of_o zippora_fw-la her_o circumcise_n of_o her_o son_n you_o answer_v say_v 1_o what_o say_v you_o to_o cyprian_a and_o all_o that_o counsel_n of_o learned_a bishop_n who_o conclude_v that_o baptism_n of_o heretic_n be_v a_o nullity_n and_o decree_v rebaptise_v this_o i_o answer_v that_o if_o cyprian_a and_o those_o learned_a bishop_n do_v err_v what_o be_v that_o to_o this_o purpose_n for_o those_o example_n that_o i_o have_v allege_v be_v such_o as_o be_v record_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n to_o be_v do_v not_o by_o such_o as_o have_v lawful_a call_n and_o yet_o stand_v without_o recircumcise_n but_o suppose_v cyprian_a &_o those_o bishop_n find_v that_o some_o be_v baptize_v by_o heretic_n and_o not_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o trinity_n for_o see_v some_o deny_v the_o deity_n of_o christ_n some_o his_o humanity_n other_o hold_v other_o error_n about_o the_o trinity_n it_o be_v not_o like_a that_o they_o will_v observe_v the_o true_a form_n of_o baptism_n but_o some_o strange_a form_n of_o their_o own_o devise_n as_o some_o report_n how_o true_o i_o know_v not_o that_o you_o baptise_v yourselves_o into_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n and_o so_o decree_v not_o rebaptise_v but_o baptise_v of_o they_o that_o be_v not_o before_o baptize_v with_o christ_n baptism_n indeed_o it_o be_v record_v by_o some_o that_o the_o novatian_o arrian_n aetian_o &_o donatist_n do_v as_o you_o do_v rebaptise_v those_o that_o fall_v to_o their_o error_n which_o have_v be_v baptize_v before_o into_o the_o name_n of_o the_o trinity_n last_o if_o cyprian_a &_o those_o bishop_n do_v err_v about_o this_o point_n of_o rebaptise_v as_o in_o some_o other_o they_o do_v i_o be_o no_o patron_n of_o their_o error_n 2_o i_o say_v that_o the_o israelite_n circumcision_n be_v in_o a_o true_a church_n and_o antichrist_n ans_fw-fr ans_fw-fr baptism_n be_v in_o a_o false_a and_o that_o be_v a_o dissimilitude_n that_o israel_n in_o her_o apostasy_n be_v not_o a_o true_a church_n i_o have_v show_v before_o how_o you_o in_o this_o disagree_v with_o yourself_o here_o i_o will_v set_v down_o your_o own_o re._n re._n word_n in_o your_o book_n of_o parallel_n etc._n etc._n against_o m._n barnard_n pag._n 14._o thus_o you_o write_v a_o church_n false_o constitute_v as_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v the_o apostate_n church_n of_o the_o 10._o tribe_n and_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v the_o church_n of_o antichrist_n be_v such_o a_o communion_n of_o man_n where_o to_o god_n have_v not_o give_v the_o covenant_n the_o holy_a thing_n the_o promise_n christ_n for_o king_n priest_n and_o prophet_n etc._n etc._n also_o in_o pag._n 26._o of_o the_o same_o book_n you_o answer_v such_o as_o plead_v that_o they_o have_v the_o word_n sacrament_n &_o conversion_n in_o the_o english_a assembly_n have_v these_o word_n i_o say_v it_o be_v but_o as_o a_o thief_n have_v the_o true_a mann_n purse_n and_o as_o the_o false_a church_n of_o jeroboam_fw-la have_v and_o as_o the_o samaritan_n edomite_n etc._n etc._n have_v circumcision_n &_o the_o sacrifice_n by_o usurpation_n here_o you_o have_v testify_v to_o the_o world_n that_o jeroboam'_v church_n be_v a_o false_a church_n false_o constitute_v etc._n etc._n and_o now_o see_v a_o disadvantage_n thereby_o to_o your_o new_a erroneous_a opinion_n you_o doubt_v not_o to_o call_v it_o a_o true_a church_n this_o inconstancy_n befitt_v not_o he_o that_o will_v be_v a_o leader_n of_o other_o 3._o i_o know_v nothing_o to_o the_o contrary_a but_o zippora_n may_v circumcise_v her_o son_n her_o an._n an._n husband_n command_v she_o for_o where_o be_v it_o say_v in_o the_o old_a testament_n that_o a_o woman_n shall_v not_o circumcise_n for_o moses_n do_v circumcise_v though_o zippora_n be_v the_o hand_n of_o moses_n in_o that_o action_n etc._n etc._n when_o you_o deal_v against_o we_o about_o baptise_v of_o infant_n you_o will_v have_v commandment_n re._n

to_o baptism_n by_o reason_n of_o the_o faith_n repl._n repl._n of_o some_o of_o their_o ancestor_n that_o be_v faithful_a then_o be_v they_o the_o true_a matter_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n etc._n etc._n we_o do_v not_o say_v that_o the_o infant_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v title_n to_o an._n an._n baptism_n by_o reason_n of_o their_o ancestor_n faith_n but_o do_v affirm_v that_o in_o respect_n of_o that_o apostatical_a stand_n neither_o infant_n nor_o their_o parent_n have_v right_a to_o any_o of_o god_n ordinance_n neither_o be_v it_o enough_o that_o people_n be_v elect_v and_o thereby_o to_o have_v right_a to_o god_n covenant_n etc._n etc._n before_o god_n but_o to_o be_v member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o partaker_n of_o the_o holy_a thing_n there_o must_v be_v a_o 4_o a_o rev._n 18._o 4_o visible_a go_v out_o of_o babylon_n ●6_n babylon_n 2_o cor._n 6._o ●6_n f●r_v what_o agreement_n have_v the_o temple_n of_o god_n with_o idol_n the_o vessel_n of_o the_o lord_n must_v be_v carry_v out_o to_o jerusalem_n &_o then_o be_v they_o in_o their_o due_a place_n and_o shall_v have_v their_o true_a use_n which_o in_o their_o romish_a stand_v they_o can_v not_o have_v albeit_o in_o babylon_n they_o be_v the_o vessel_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o herein_o be_v you_o deceive_v that_o if_o any_o of_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n be_v retain_v in_o the_o hand_n of_o autichristians_n these_o ordinance_n must_v either_o make_v they_o a_o true_a visible_a church_n or_o be_v none_o of_o he_o and_o when_o they_o be_v bring_v out_o thence_o have_v no_o use_n these_o thing_n may_v also_o answer_v that_o which_o follow_v for_o upon_o this_o that_o we_o deny_v baptism_n administer_v in_o popery_n to_o be_v iterate_v you_o will_v conclude_v these_o absurdity_n to_o follow_v viz._n that_o infant_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v a_o true_a visible_a ch_z in_o the_o constitution_n &_o essential_a repl._n repl._n cause_n thereof_o that_o the_o church_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n come_v by_o succession_n of_o carnal_a genealogy_n through_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o our_o day_n that_o the_o matter_n of_o the_o church_n viz._n infant_n descend_v of_o baptise_a parent_n be_v by_o genealogy_n &_o the_o form_n of_o the_o church_n viz._n baptism_n upon_o those_o infant_n be_v by_o descent_n and_o therefore_o the_o church_n be_v by_o succession_n i_o demand_v why_o may_v not_o the_o ministry_n be_v by_o succession_n as_o well_o as_o the_o church_n and_o england_n and_o rome_n true_a church_n their_o ministry_n true_a etc._n etc._n to_o all_o which_o particular_n i_o answer_v thus_o 1._o infant_n may_v be_v member_n ans_fw-fr ans_fw-fr of_o a_o visible_a church_n but_o that_o a_o visible_a church_n can_v stand_v of_o infant_n only_o we_o deny_v 2._o neither_o infant_n nor_o the_o elder_a sort_n stand_v in_o antichristianism_n can_v be_v the_o matter_n of_o a_o true_a visible_a church_n be_v so_o look_v upon_o according_a to_o that_o estate_n and_o respect_n 3._o baptism_n which_o you_o will_v have_v the_o form_n have_v his_o true_a use_n in_o the_o visible_a church_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o god_n people_n 4._o let_v the_o people_n of_o god_n in_o babylon_n and_o the_o baptism_n that_o there_o they_o receive_v be_v compare_v with_o god_n people_n in_o the_o apostate_n church_n of_o israel_n &_o with_o their_o circumcision_n and_o it_o will_v appear_v that_o the_o infant_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v not_o a_o true_a visible_a church_n in_o the_o essential_a cause_n thereof_o any_o more_o or_o otherwise_o then_o as_o they_o be_v in_o israel_n concern_v the_o church_n succession_n by_o carnal_a genealogy_n i_o answer_v that_o as_o the_o covenant_n be_v make_v with_o abraham_n and_o his_o seed_n so_o under_o the_o gospel_n do_v the_o promise_n belong_v to_o the_o parent_n &_o their_o child_n and_o that_o god_n have_v 4._o have_v apoc._n 14._o &_o 4._o his_o people_n in_o all_o the_o time_n of_o popery_n that_o be_v within_o his_o covenant_n neither_o be_v this_o to_o hold_v succession_n of_o visible_a church_n but_o to_o use_v your_o term_n a_o succession_n of_o true_a believer_n in_o all_o age_n though_o not_o always_o know_v in_o public_a it_o be_v the_o lot_n of_o the_o 14._o the_o rev._n 1._o 13._o 14._o church_n to_o be_v persecute_v by_o the_o dragon_n and_o drive_v to_o flee_v into_o the_o wilderness_n for_o a_o time_n time_n &_o half_o a_o time_n and_o therefore_o see_v the_o matter_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v not_o always_o nor_o otherwise_o see_v to_o descend_v from_o baptise_a person_n by_o genealogy_n then_o as_o it_o do_v from_o parent_n circumcise_v in_o israel_n there_o can_v be_v no_o other_o succession_n visible_a of_o the_o church_n or_o ministry_n then_o be_v incident_a to_o such_o estate_n but_o as_o in_o israel_n there_o be_v *_o a_o break_n off_o of_o both_o so_o have_v 8._o king_n 12_o 33._o ●ev_n 11._o 7._o 12._o 14._o ●_o 13._o 7._o 8._o it_o fall_v out_o under_o the_o new_a testament_n a_o †_o surcease_o of_o succession_n of_o true_a visible_a church_n and_o of_o the_o true_a ministry_n in_o the_o apostasy_n of_o antichrist_n and_o this_o may_v satisfy_v you_o why_o we_o may_v not_o return_v back_o again_o to_o church_n continue_v in_o apostasy_n but_o where_o you_o say_v you_o hear_v some_o be_v mind_v to_o take_v up_o their_o former_a ministry_n and_o return_n back_o again_o into_o england_n you_o shall_v have_v do_v well_o either_o to_o have_v forewarn_v such_o if_o you_o know_v in_o they_o a_o purpose_n to_o sin_n else_o not_o so_o easy_o to_o have_v receive_v the_o report_n thereof_o to_o make_v it_o public_a and_o so_o to_o cause_v suspicion_n to_o arise_v against_o any_o brother_n undeserved_o for_o my_o own_o part_n i_o know_v none_o of_o the_o church_n to_o have_v any_o such_o thought_n if_o any_o that_o have_v leave_v the_o faith_n as_o you_o have_v do_v and_o depart_v from_o the_o church_n or_o for_o their_o sin_n just_o cast_v out_o so_o do_v purpose_n what_o be_v that_o to_o we_o look_v to_o it_o yourselves_o and_o true_o for_o my_o part_n i_o hold_v it_o as_o lawful_a to_o retain_v the_o church_n and_o ministry_n of_o england_n as_o to_o retain_v the_o baptism_n and_o when_o i_o shall_v yield_v to_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o baptism_n of_o england_n i_o will_v yield_v to_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o church_n &_o ministry_n of_o england_n etc._n etc._n it_o may_v be_v you_o speak_v true_a of_o your_o estate_n than_o you_o think_v but_o whatsoever_o ans_fw-fr ans_fw-fr your_o persuasion_n be_v i_o mind_n a_o difference_n to_o be_v put_v between_o baptism_n administer_v in_o church_n stand_v in_o apostasy_n and_o the_o constitution_n and_o ministry_n of_o these_o church_n for_o baptism_n be_v the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n may_v not_o be_v repeat_v as_o before_o be_v prove_v but_o those_o assembly_n that_o consist_v of_o confuse_a multitude_n and_o be_v not_o set_v in_o the_o way_n of_o god_n that_o have_v a_o false_a ministry_n and_o worship_n we_o have_v a_o special_a commandement_fw-fr *_o to_o separate_v 17._o rev._n 18._o 4_o cor._n 6._o 17._o from_o as_o we_o have_v from_o all_o corruption_n of_o god_n ordinance_n but_o in_o no_o scripture_n to_o reject_v the_o ordinance_n themselves_o for_o any_o pollution_n that_o be_v upon_o they_o now_o it_o be_v further_a to_o be_v remember_v that_o we_o in_o retain_v baptism_n do_v not_o retayn_v the_o corruption_n wherewith_o it_o be_v administer_v but_o that_o which_o be_v of_o god_n therein_o neither_o do_v we_o hold_v it_o lawful_a for_o they_o that_o be_v come_v out_o of_o babylon_n to_o return_v thither_o to_o fetch_v baptism_n and_o to_o make_v this_o difference_n to_o appear_v more_o plain_o let_v be_v consider_v the_o example_n of_o those_o israelite_n that_o return_v to_o jerusalem_n who_o cast_v not_o of_o their_o circumcision_n yet_o may_v they_o not_o justify_v for_o true_a that_o apostate_n church_n or_o ministry_n from_o which_o they_o do_v separate_v or_o continue_v in_o the_o communion_n thereof_o without_o sin_n but_o because_o i_o know_v the_o ministry_n and_o church_n of_o england_n be_v false_a therefore_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v that_o baptism_n which_o be_v the_o form_n of_o the_o church_n essential_o etc._n etc._n repl._n repl._n for_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n whether_o it_o be_v true_a or_o false_a ans_fw-fr ans_fw-fr be_v not_o the_o thing_n controvert_v between_o you_o and_o i_o but_o that_o baptism_n in_o a_o apostate_n church_n be_v false_a essential_o i_o deny_v and_o yourself_o confess_v 35._o confess_v char●_n pag._n 35._o that_o if_o it_o be_v administer_v by_o antichrist_n to_o such_o as_o confess_v their_o faith_n and_o sin_n it_o be_v true_a and_o not_o to_o be_v repeat_v which_o

opinion_n of_o you_o can_v not_o stand_v if_o the_o essence_n of_o baptism_n be_v destroy_v for_o your_o wish_n that_o the_o lord_n will_v open_v all_o our_o eye_n of_o the_o separation_n to_o see_v and_o our_o heart_n to_o understand_v that_o all_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v carnal_a to_o type_n out_o &_o to_o teach_v they_o heavenly_a thing_n &_o therefore_o their_o church_n be_v carnal_a to_o type_n to_o we_o the_o new_a testament_n etc._n etc._n it_o have_v please_v god_n and_o we_o be_v thankful_a for_o it_o to_o open_v our_o eye_n to_o discern_v of_o your_o carnal_a doctrine_n &_o to_o understand_v the_o truth_n which_o you_o labour_v to_o obscure_v by_o your_o strange_a exposition_n as_o for_o the_o old_a test_n which_o you_o call_v carnal_a &_o the_o church_n carnal_a i_o tell_v you_o again_o and_o again_o that_o all_o the_o ordinance_n under_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v spiritual_a in_o their_o ordination_n and_o right_a use_n as_o the_o 7_o the_o rom._n 7_o law_n itself_o be_v holy_a &_o spiritual_a and_o therefore_o be_v call_v ●_o call_v heb._n ●_o ordinance_n of_o religion_n and_o the_o tabernacle_n mikdasch_n to_o teach_v that_o it_o be_v of_o a_o holy_a use_n for_o the_o lord_n the_o old_a 4_o †_o joh._n 1●_n ephe._n ●_o 19_o &_o 3._o 1_o cor._n 10_o 4._o eph._n 4_o church_n also_o be_v a_o spiritual_a house_n notwithstanding_o that_o the_o first_o testament_n have_v ordinance_n of_o religion_n which_o do_v shadow_n forth_o thing_n to_o come_v for_o in_o substance_n both_o it_o and_o the_o church_n under_o the_o gospel_n be_v 10._o be_v heb._n 1._o 10._o the_o same_o only_o differ_v in_o the_o outward_a administration_n of_o the_o covenant_n to_o the_o former_a church_n holy_a thing_n be_v administer_v under_o type_n and_o figure_n to_o the_o latter_a more_o simple_o and_o in_o the_o plain_n manifestation_n of_o the_o truth_n now_o to_o prove_v your_o carnal_a and_o typical_a church_n you_o say_v the_o matter_n of_o the_o old_a church_n be_v a_o carnal_a israelite_n and_o the_o form_n carnal_a circumcision_n re._n re._n a_o carnal_a seal_n gen._n 17._o 10-14_a but_o the_o matter_n of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v a_o true_a israelite_n the_o form_n be_v the_o circumcision_n of_o the_o hart_n a_o new_a creature_n the_o holy_a spirit_n of_o promise_n whereby_o we_o be_v seal_v which_o be_v manifest_v by_o confession_n &_o baptism_n in_o water_n act._n 10._o 47._o ephe._n 1._o 13._o gal._n 3._o 27._o &_o 6._o 15._o io._n 3._o 5._o mat._n 3._o 6._o ronvere_n 10._o 9_o act_n 8._o 36._o 37._o etc._n etc._n concern_v your_o carnal_a matter_n and_o form_n i_o have_v answer_v pag._n 12._o and_o have_v also_o prove_v that_o god_n do_v require_v of_o that_o his_o people_n israel_n to_o be_v ●_o be_v exo._n ●_o holy_a and_o ans_fw-fr and_o ronvere_n 2._o 29._o d●_n 10._o 16_o jer._n 4._o 4_o ans_fw-fr spiritual_a and_o for_o the_o form_n of_o the_o old_a church_n i_o have_v show_v likewise_o that_o they_o become_v 15._o become_v gen._n deut._n 2d_o 10_o 15._o a_o church_n &_o people_n of_o god_n by_o virtue_n of_o god_n covenant_n make_v with_o they_o whereunto_o circumcision_n be_v add_v as_o a_o seal_n to_o confirm_v the_o same_o which_o they_o also_o receive_v pag._n 12._o 13._o 23._o etc._n etc._n the_o form_n of_o the_o church_n can_v never_o be_v want_v the_o church_n continue_v to_o be_v a_o church_n but_o circumcision_n may_v be_v want_v and_o be_v want_v to_o all_o the_o israelite_n 〈◊〉_d in_o the_o wilderness_n by_o all_o that_o space_n of_o 40._o year_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v they_o be_v 〈…〉_o ber_n of_o his_o 43._o his_o psal_n 43._o church_n all_o that_o time_n notwithstanding_o that_o which_o you_o set_v down_o for_o the_o form_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n viz._n circumcision_n of_o the_o hart_n a_o new_a creature_n and_o the_o spirit_n of_o christ_n be_v internal_a proper_a to_o every_o true_a member_n both_o of_o the_o old_a church_n and_o new_a yea_o this_o form_n if_o it_o be_v so_o call_v belong_v to_o god_n people_n in_o babylon_n and_o to_o all_o the_o member_n of_o the_o invisible_a church_n but_o that_o outward_a form_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n which_o we_o be_v to_o know_v it_o by_o must_v be_v visible_a and_o such_o as_o we_o can_v discern_v they_o to_o be_v a_o people_n of_o god_n from_o all_o other_o assembly_n but_o this_o new_a creature_n and_o inward_a grace_n you_o will_v say_v be_v manifest_v by_o confession_n and_o baptism_n in_o water_n so_o may_v it_o also_o where_o baptism_n be_v not_o have_v as_o it_o may_v be_v in_o israel_n when_o they_o can_v not_o have_v circumcision_n also_o the_o form_n of_o the_o church_n must_v be_v one_o indivisible_a thing_n common_a to_o the_o whole_a that_o give_v the_o be_v thereof_o as_o before_o i_o have_v observe_v but_o confession_n and_o baptism_n as_o it_o be_v particular_o apply_v to_o every_o member_n as_o to_o the_o *_o eunuch_n paul_n etc._n etc._n so_o may_v it_o rest_v in_o one_o man_n if_o all_o the_o rest_n shall_v die_v or_o fall_v away_o who_o can_v 18_o ●ct_n 8._o ●_o 9_o 18_o not_o be_v a_o church_n and_o yet_o he_o have_v that_o which_o you_o set_v down_o to_o be_v the_o form_n of_o the_o church_n wherefore_o god_n people_n join_v together_o in_o the_o fellowship_n of_o the_o gospel_n must_v have_v one_o general_a form_n whereby_o they_o receive_v the_o denomination_n of_o a_o church_n &_o that_o be_v their_o solemn_a enter_v into_o communion_n under_o the_o covenant_n of_o the_o lord_n unite_n together_o to_o walk_v in_o all_o his_o way_n &_o to_o be_v his_o pre●_n ●eu_n 29._o ●_o 13._o ●_o 18._o 20_o ●i_fw-la 1._o 5._o ●_o 2._o 42_o ●ifferenc_n ●he_v pre●_n people_n which_o all_o that_o be_v afterward_o †_o add_v to_o the_o church_n must_v promise_v to_o observe_v and_o such_o a_o communion_n do_v we_o hold_v for_o a_o church_n &_o so_o “_o do_v you_o for_o as_o many_o stone_n may_v be_v hew_v &_o square_v &_o so_o be_v fit_a matter_n for_o a_o house_n yet_o have_v not_o those_o stone_n the_o denomination_n of_o a_o house_n until_o they_o be_v join_v together_o in_o one_o form_n no_o more_o people_n confess_v christ_n be_v to_o behold_v a_o visible_a church_n until_o they_o be_v join_v together_o in_o such_o a_o form_n as_o christ_n have_v command_v but_o to_o follow_v you_o in_o your_o comparison_n of_o these_o two_o church_n speak_v of_o the_o jew_n thus_o you_o say_v their_o carnal_a church_n in_o the_o matter_n and_o form_n come_v by_o carnal_a genealogy_n and_o so_o they_o all_o of_o they_o be_v gender_v unto_o bondage_n under_o the_o rudiment_n of_o the_o world_n gal._n 4._o 24_o 25_o under_o the_o carnal_a testament_n our_o church_n in_o the_o matter_n &_o form_n thereof_o be_v by_o spiritual_a generation_n that_o be_v the_o genealogy_n of_o the_o faithful_a of_o abraham_n the_o father_n of_o we_o all_o gal_n 3._o 7._o 9_o 14._o ronvere_n 4._o 10._o 11._o their_o parent_n in_o that_o carnal_a church_n be_v carnal_a abraham_n and_o carnal_a agar_n etc._n etc._n our_o spiritual_a parent_n be_v abraham_n spiritual_a etc._n etc._n their_o ministry_n be_v a_o carnal_a ministry_n by_o carnal_a genealogy_n etc._n etc._n first_o i_o deny_v that_o either_o the_o matter_n or_o form_n of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o ●●_o ●●_o jew_n come_v by_o carnal_a genealogy_n as_o you_o apply_v it_o they_o be_v make_v a_o church_n and_o people_n of_o god_n through_o the_o everlasting_a covenant_n which_o god_n make_v with_o abraham_n and_o his_o seed_n else_o can_v not_o the_o proselyt_n and_o their_o child_n have_v be_v matter_n of_o that_o old_a church_n see_v they_o descend_v not_o by_o carnal_a genealogy_n from_o abraham_n again_o that_o church_n must_v be_v of_o the_o same_o nature_n with_o the_o covenant_n which_o give_v the_o be_v thereof_o but_o this_o 1●_n this_o deut._n 13._o conf_n w●_n luke_n 1_o 7●_n 73._o 74._o cor_fw-la 6._o 1●_n covenant_n be_v spiritual_a ergo_fw-la the_o church_n also_o be_v spiritual_a that_o place_n of_o gal._n 4._o 24._o 25._o which_o you_o cyte_v to_o prove_v that_o old_a church_n to_o be_v carnal_a you_o missap_o as_o before_o i_o have_v show_v pag_n 14._o second_o i_o deny_v that_o hagar_n be_v the_o mother_n of_o the_o israelite_n after_o the_o flesh_n though_o abraham_n be_v their_o father_n neither_o be_v ishmael_n the_o type_n of_o the_o israelit_v as_o they_o be_v by_o nature_n the_o seed_n of_o abraham_n but_o of_o such_o israelit_n and_o other_o under_o the_o gospel_n that_o by_o the_o work_n of_o the_o law_n seek_v to_o be_v justify_v whereby_o they_o come_v in_o bondage_n to_o the_o law_n as_o the_o apostle_n witness_v see_v the_o exposition_n of_o gal._n 4._o 24._o 25._o in_o pag._n 14._o