to fast then to marrie Now for these very points that none are in Paradise but only martvrs and that the soules euen of the Patriarks and Prophets and all other godlie Christians are apud inferos in places vnder the earth and so shal be till the fulnesse of the resurrection Tertullian vrgeth in his booke De anima and in this chapter the authority of his paraclet which was the founder of Montanus new prophesies Agnosce differentiam Ethnici fidelis in morte si pro Deo occumbas vt pâ—…racletus moâ—…et non in mollibus febribus in lectulis sed in an Acknowledge the difference of an Ethnicke and a beleeuer euen in their deaths if thou die for Gods cause as the Paraclet warneth not in casie agues and soft beddes but in Martyrdomes And that these were the very words of Montanus new prophesie may easily be perceaued by Tertullian himselfe who writing against all flight in persecution which booke was specially written against the Church by Ieroms owne confession citeth them as the words of the spirit to witte in the new prophesies of Montanus Spiritum si consulas c omnes pene ad martyriuns exhortatur non ad fugam vt illius commemâ—…ur publicaris inquit â—…onum libi est Qui enim non publicatur in hominibus publicatur in Domino Sic aâ—…bi Nolite in lectulis febribus mâ—…llibus optare exire sed in Martyrijs If thou take counsell of the spirit he exhorteth all very neere to Martyrdome not to flight as to remember you of that speach Art thou made a publike example saith he it is good for thee He that is not made a publike â—…xample amgoÌ„st men shal be made one with God And so in another place desire not to depart this life in beds easie agues but in Martyrdomes These words Tertullian alleageth as euidently written by the spirit which since they be no where found in any part of the new or old Testament disagree both in words matter from the stile truth of the sacred Scriptures they sauour of another spirit must of force be referred to the prophesies of Montanus who in this very point was condemned by the church of Christ against which as Ierom auoucheth Tertuilian wrote this book in fauor of Montanus heresie And so much also that learned obseruer Rhenanus affirmeth vpon this place Verba sunt Prophetiae Paracleti Montanici These are the words of the prophesie of Montanus spirit Your friends therefore who lent you their paines were not well aduised in excusing Tertullian in this matter from Montanisme since not onely the error of Montanus is heere defended but the verie words of his new reuelation are heere alleadged Also in that obiection of certaine Heretickes whom he confuteth not the true Christians as you misconceaue They argued thus as you doe In hoc Christus inferos adijt ne nos adiremus Christ therefore went to hell to the end we should neuer come there He answereth them that it is false that Christ went to inferos in that sense that is to hell For then what difference is there between the wicked heathen and the godly Christians if one and the same prison after death were for them both taking it for a thing generally graunted in the Church that it were a WICKED AND HERETICALL THING to thinke he went where the damned were that is into hell Ignorance maketh you not onely blind and bold but presumptuous and sawcie to acquite from heresie and condemne for heresie whom pleaseth you And therefore I must not thinke it strange to be chalenged by you for a wicked and hereticall opinion since you grosly belie the whole Church of Christ and dippe them in the same vate of wicked and heretical things with me You wilfully wrest and misconstrue Tertullians words smoothing him in a manifest error against the whole Church of Christ and roling them vp with wicked heresie that were the greatest lights of Christian religion next after the Apostles Tertullians resolutions in this very Chapter are plaine enough to him that is not more then blind Habes de Paradiso anobie libellum quo constituimus omnem animam apud inferos sequestrari in diem Domini Thou hast a book of ours written touching Paradise wherein we determine all soules to be kept sequestred apud inferos in infernall places till the day of the Lord. And in the sentence next before that which you cite he sayth with like confidence Habes regionem inferûm subterraneam credere illos cubito pellere qui satis superbè non putent animas fideliuÌ„ inferis dignas serui super DominuÌ„ Discipuli super MagistruÌ„ aspernati si forte in Abrahae sinu expectandae resurrectionis solatium carpere Thou hast to beleeue that the region of inferi is vnder the earth and to push them from their opinions who proudly enough will not thinke the soules of the faithfull to be fitte for infernall or Iower places seruants aboue their Lord and Scholers aboue their Masters in that they skorne perhaps to haue the comfort of expecting the resurrection in Abrahams bosome Heere Tertullian positiuely declareth that he taketh inferi for a place or Region vnder the earth and that such as thought not the soules of the faithfull fitte for that place till the resurrection did proudly presume to be aboue their Lord and Master and skorne Abrahams bosome where the rest of the Patriarks Prophets are kept as he dreameth and so shal be till the day of iudgement Now whose opinion I pray you was this that the soules of the faithfull after Christs resurrection went to Paradise and not to places vnder the earth was it not the maine confession of Christs Church Tertullian then purposely refuting that opinion what els doth he but traduce the generall persuasion of the faithfull in fauour of his new prophesie which reserued Paradise onely for Martyrs and in that respect abandoned all the soules of the godly dying in their beds to places vnder the earth there to be kept till Christes comming But examine the words which he reiecteth and see if they sauour of heresie or Christianity For thereby we shall best iudge whether they were Hereticks or Christians whom he there impugned His words are Sed in hoc inquiunt Christus inseros 〈◊〉 ne nos adiremus But to this â—…rd say they Christ went to inferi the places bâ—…low that we should not come thither If these wordes imply heresie then was Saint Austen a manifest hereticke for he affirmed as much in effect as this commeth vnto Ideo Christus peruenit vsâ—… ad infernum ne nos maneremus in inferno Therefore Christ came euen vnto hell that we should not remaine in hell Men that come thither abide there If therefore Christ freed vs by his descent thither from remaining there he freed vs from comming thither And Ambrose was likewise an
to trouble the people with that Question and therefore I rested on a knowne and confessed principle of Christian truth and faith that we inherite pollution and death from Adams flesh without resoluing whence the Soule commeth which I did refraine before the multitude to speake of And since by the Scriptures the first Adam was a figure of the second the flesh of Christ giuen for vs must be as able to clense and quicken vs as Adams flesh was to defile and kill vs. To this reason you here pike many quarrels but in the end you slide it of as else where answered Your first quarrell is that I force what I promised to forbeare euen the difficultie whence the Soule of man is deriued As though the grounds of our Faith might be doubted because that Question in former times was vndecided That we deriue flesh from Adam and haue men for the Fathers of our bodies did neuer man yet that was in his right wits call in Question were he Christian or Heretick Iewe Turke or Pagan That likewise wee deriue with our flesh pollution and death from Adam the faith of Christ rightly grounded on the Scriptures doth not suffer vs to stagger at though whence our Soules are giuen vs some haue stood perplexed You thinke it much I should deliuer the one which is the pollution of our flesh professing not to determine the other and make it in me a kind of inconstancie to vrge the propagation of the flesh with her sequels of which no Christian may doubt because I thought it not fit to trouble the people with the deriuation of the Soule But so hath the Church of Christ alwaies done it hath cleerely confessed the deriuation of sinne and death from Adam and made it necessarie for all Christian men so to beleeue though some would not hastily or could not easily resolue the doubt whence the Soule commeth If our Soules arise in Generation from Adam as well as our flesh how can your reason be good by any possibilitie The conceit that our Soules are ingendred together with the seede of our bodies is so grosse and pestilent an error and so repugnant to all authoritie Humane and Diuine and so dissident from dayly experience that I had no cause to make that a Question in Religion or therein to refraine the audience of the people Ex nullo homine generantur Animae Soules are not generated from any man saith Ambrose 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The principall facultie of the soule sayth Clemens Alexandrinus by which we haue discourse of reason is not engendered by proiection of seed Anima vtique nunquam ab homine gignentium originibus prebetur The soule neuer commeth from man in the generation of men sayth Hilarie Ierom vpon those words of Salomon the spirit of man after death returneth to God that gaue it writeth thus Ex quo satis ridendi sunt qui putant animas cum corporibus seri non à Deo sed à corporum parentibus generari Whereby they are worthy to be thorowly derided which thinke soules to be sowen together with bodies and not to be from God but to be generated by the parents of our bodies For since the flesh returneth to the earth and the spirit to God that gaue it IT IS MANIFEST that God is the Father of our soules and not Man And when Ruffinus professed he could not tell how the soule came to be ioyned with the body whether by propagation from Man or infusion from God Ierom replieth If the soule come by propagation then the soules of men which we grant are eternall and the bruit beasts which die with the bodie haue one condition And doest thou maruell that the Christian brethren are scandalized at thee when thou swearest thou knowest not that which the Churches of Christ confesse they know Theodoret in many places giueth the like testimonie The Church beleeuing the diuine Scriptures sayth the soule was and is created as well as the bodie not hauing any cause of her creation from naturall seed but from the Creatours will after the bodie once perfectly made The most diuine Moses writeth that Adams bodie was first made and afterward his soule inspired into him Againe in his lawes the same Prophet plainly teacheth vs that the bodie is first made and then the soule created and infused And blessed Iob spake thus to God Diddest thou not powre me forth like milke and thicken me like curds of cheese thou diddest clothe me with skinne and flesh and compact me with bones and sinewes And when by this Iob had shewed the frame of his bodie to be first made he addeth a thankesgiuing for his soule saying Life and mercie thou laydst with me and thy watchfulnesse preserued my spirit This confession touching the soule and bodie of man the Church hath learned from the diuine Scriptures The same reasons and resolutions he repeateth elsewhere in his fift sermon touching the nature of man Leo the great The Catholike faith doth constantly and truely preach that the soules of men were not before they were inspired into their bodies nec ab also incorporentur nisi ab opifice Deo neither are put into the bodie by any other workeman than God And Austen himselfe who to decline that difficultie how the soule commeth to be infected with originall sinne was the first that made this doubt whether the soule were created and infused or els deriued from the soule though not by the seed of the parents refuseth Tertullians opinion That the soule riseth from the seed of the bodie as peruerse and strange to the Church of Christ They sayth he which affirme soules to be drawen from the parents if they follow Tertullians opinion tooke them to be in some sort bodies corpulentis seminibus exoriri and to rise from the seed of the bodie quo quid peruersius dici potest than the which what can be sayd more peruerse Now in Austens rehearsall of heresies Tertullians assertion That the soule was a kind of bodie is excused as no heresie but his conceit That the state of the soule is propagated by traduction of seed is expresly put amongst his errours From these auncient Fathers swarue not the best of our new writers Bullinger All those other opinions haue beene refuted with sound reasons by the writers Ecclesiasticall and that receiued and auouched for the truest which teacheth the soule to be created of nothing and to be infunded into the bodie from God when the childe hath his perfect shape in his mothers womb And that we are not at this day otherwise created of God than by infunding the soule into the bodie first fashioned Iob is a most plentifull witnesse where he saith Thine hands o God haue made me and fashioned me wholly Didst thou not stroke me like milke and curd me like cheese with skinne and flesh thou coueredst me with bones and sinewes thou
greater than all the gifts of men and angels How then doth it follow that Christ was weake because Paul was weake Yea if Pauls weaknesse were perfected by Christes power as Paul himselfe confesseth in that place g Ibid. vers 9. Very gladly will I reioyce in mine infirmities that the power of Christ may dwell in me then from those words Christes power is prooued and not his infirmitie But take it which way you will though this be the trueth which I haue tolde these wordes doe nothing hinder Hilaries and Austens confession that Christes infirmitie was voluntarie where ours is necessarie and so infirmitie in him was not for want of strength but for merit of righteousnesse and was both receiued and directed by his will and power And where you are so often on the hoigh to impaire S. Austens credit with yours you shall do well to get you some more vnderstanding in him before you rush so rashly against him left if it come to the ballance whether you or S. Austen be in an errour you finde few friends so fauourable that will forsake him to follow you His resolution which you may put off with pride but you shall neuer refute with reason is this h August de ciuitate Dei li. 14. ca. 9. Habemus ergo has affectiones ex humaâ—…a conditionis infirmitate non autem it a Dominus Iesus cuius infirmit as fuit ex potestate 〈◊〉 etiam ipse Dominus in forma serui agere vitam dignat us humanam sed nullum habens omninâ—… peccatum adhibuit eas vbi adhibendas esse iudicauit Cùm ergo cius in Euangelio ista referuntur quod Lazarum suscitaturus lachrymas fuderit quòd propin quante passione trâ—…stis fuerit anima eius vsque ad mortem non falsò vtique ista referuntur Verum ille hos motus certa dispensationis gratia ita cùm voluit suscepit animo humano vt cùm voluit factus est homo We haue these affections of feare and sorow c. by the infirmitie of mans condition but the Lord Iesus had them not so whose infirmitie was of his owne power Wherefore the Lord when he vouchsafed to leade an humane life in the forme of a seruant but vtterly void of all sinne admitted those affections when he saw it fit to admit them And in the Gaspell when those things are reported of him as that he wept when he was about to raise Lazarus and that his Passion approching his soule was sorrowfull vnto death these things are not falselie written of him but he admitted these motions in his humane minde for certaine purposes euen when he would as when he would he was made man l Defene pag. 107. li. 20. 18. I iudge their very meaning to be that here appeared not Christs infirmitie onely in suffering but his diuine power also in punishing and this they speake fully for vs and against you If you make them speake that they neuer ment they may chance to speake with you but leaue them to expresse their owne minds and then they neither speake nor meane with you But what is the reason they so soone speake with you where not fiue lines before you controled their speech as repugnant to the truth haue you now by your glozes made them lyers like your selfe you should at least be more constant if not more prudent then first to chalenge in their speech a contrarietie to the truth and then to claime a conformity to their sense They ment no such thing as you make shew of but they speake of Christs power which stirred and gouerned his affections as he thought good that they might declare him a true man and yet be parts of his obedience and submission to his Father though withall they were religious and voluntarie For as he emptied and humbled himselfe so he weakned and troubled himselfe when he saw time not for want of power but of purpose so disposing and despensing his affections that by his vertue he might moderate them in his owne person and cure them in ours k Defenc. pag. 107. li. 28. Those other mysticall and figuratiue sayings of Austen Bede and Bernard how shall we admit them without better warrant that Christs bloudshed was to signifie that Martyrs doe shed their bloud what reason haue we so to thinke or that his bloudshed should signifie the purging of his Disciples harts from sinne yea or of all his Church in the whole world It did not signifie this but it did it indeede If their opinions of Christs bloudy Christs bloudie sweate might hauâ—… signification as well as the water that â—…anne out of his side sweate be not to be admitted because they bring no warrant besides themselues for it how should we admit your loose dreames and dangerous fansies of a new found hell inflicted on the Soule of Christ in the Garden by the immediate hand of God which is not onely strange but repugnant to the Scriptures theirs is possible and agreeable to the rules of faith yours is not Why Christ sent out of his side after his body was dead first bloud and then water can any man giue the reason Saint Austen saith i August in Iohan tract 15. De latere pendentis in cruce lancea 〈◊〉 sacramenta ecclesiae profluxerunt Out of Christs side pearced with a speare as he hanged on the crosse the Sacraments of the Church issued forth What warrant had he so to say the Scripture doth not vouch so much and yet the Church of God hath euer since regarded and receaued that speech of his So for Christs bloudy sweate finding no reason deliuered in the Scripture he descended to the signification which might be thereof that Christ by sweating bloud in his whole naturall body foreshewed the martyrdomes of his mysticall body the Church You aske for a Reason The resemblance is euident and the performance consequent greater reasons then which cannot be giuen of significations You like it not No maruaile nothing pleaseth you besides the wringing out of this sweate by the diuine power punishing You haue neither proofe nor truth for your second death to be suffered at this time and in this place and yet you would haue your absurd conceits preferred before Saint Austens iudgement It was aboue the course of nature you grant and since it was not naturall it must be miraculous if not mysticall Now if it were a miracle there may no reason be required of it but it must be left to the power and will of the doer To what end Christ did it if you like neither Austens Prospers Bedes nor Bernards iudgements in this case know you any man so vnwise as to like yours You say it did not signifie the purging of the earth from sinne it did it indeede Did the bloudie sweate of Christ in the Garden purge indeed all his Church in the whole world from sinne what needed then his death and passion afterward on the Crosse what needed his
dereliction beseemeth the time place person and cause of Christ our ransome payer and purchaser of saluation with the price of his owne most direfull paines not any other farre fet or hardly applied and strangely deuised by the braines of men As iâ—… trueth all those other senses hereof are which you rather embrace Somewhat it was you mustered foure places of Scripture so wisely chosen and well becomming your cause before you would offer to determine the matter and now puft vp with pure pride and prickt on with singular disdaine you censure the whole Church of Christ and the chiefe lights and leaders thereof I still except the Apostles as peruerters of the Scriptures traducing their expositions as farre fet hardly applied and strangely deuised by the braines of men But if you so much despise their learning religion and iudgements who were Gods blessed instruments to maintaine his trueth against all heresies and his Church against all Schismaticks and thinke your braines to be more than the braines of a man take heed lest your Reader begin to suspect you haue the braines of some other kinde If Athanasius Hilarie Chrysostome Basil Cyrill Epiphanius Ierome Ambrose Augustine Origen Tertullian and Leo may not be thought in the verdict of any wise or sober man as likely to vnderstand the sense of Christes words on the crosse as your humorous and presumptuous shall I say braine which you so much abase in others or head without braine then I must confesse my fault who loue not to leane to mine owne wit in cases of faith but rather preferre the religious and laborious inquiries of others chiefly of learned and ancient Fathers where it concerneth matters of saluation and the grounds of Christian religion which they carefully receiued and faithfully deliuered to Gods people so many hundred yeeres before we were borne And what maâ—…uell you be so bolde with the braines of men as you terme it when you take vpon you to ouerrule the words of the Holy Ghost For where in the sacred Scriptures the bloud of Christ shed for vs is recorded to be the true price of our redemption you controlling as well the Apostles as the Fathers tell vs here that Christ o Pa. 108. li. 23. purchased our saluation with the price of his most direfull paines where by direfull paines you meane hell paines that your speech in this case may be as new as your faith Belike then in your conceit Peter Paul and Iohn though Christes Apostles were neuer well Catechised nor instructed in their faith since they affirme p 1. Pet. 1. we were redeemed by the precious bloud of Christ and q Ephes. 1. we haue redemption in Christ through his bloud and Christ r Reuel 5. by his bloud redeemed vs vnto God which lesson you like not and therefore you say our saluation was purchased with the price of Christes direfull paines that is of hell paines suffered in the soule of Christ which hath no bloud vnlesse you can as easily deuise new bloud for Christes soule as you haue done a new hell for Christs sufferings Till you so do giue me and other Christians leaue to thinke that the second death which you dreame of did neither beseeme the time place person nor cause of Christ our Redeemer and therefore his words on the crosse could haue no such reference as you haue riddled in this place s Defenc. pag. 108. li. 27. Your expositions are sixe in number the first is that when Christ on the crosse cried out My God my God why hast thou forsaken me by this word ME he should meane his Church for which you haue no reason in the world but the bare names of Austen Leo Athanasius The moe the senses may be of these words and euery of them agreeing with Christian pietie as I professed of them the lesse soundnesse is in your conclusion that would inferre vpon a strange and needlesse sense of these words your paines of the damned to be then suffered in the soule of Christ. And in denying your direfull exposition of Christes words I haue all the Fathers of Christes Church for 1400 yeeres of the same opinion with me And if your chiefe and capitall proofes were such newes to them what thinke you was the rest of your new faith They are sixe in number you say and they all can not stand together You are nimble in trifles and in substance no bodie Nor I nor any man liuing may take vpon vs to determine which shall be the meaning of Christes words when the words themselues admit and allow manie senses In this very case the persons and the parts forsaken the graces and degrees wherein and how farre that dereliction might extend receiue diuers opinions and though they be different they are not repugnant the one to the other And yet it is no newes in many places of holy Scripture by reason of the different or repugnant significations of the words circumstances of the sentence and degrees of extension and intension in many things to finde contrarie iudgements of men euen of the same words and things in holy writ Neither doe diuers expositions disgrace the word of God so long as they containe nothing repugnant to the text it selfe in that or any other place but shew rather the depth of Gods wisedome which incloseth many things in few words and often passeth the reach and search of mans wit But you that carpe at euery thing besides your owne conceits would faine make your Reader beleeue that siue fingers and one hand ten toes and two feet can not stand together For the matter it selfe as dereliction is confessed on all sides because it is mentioned in the words of Christ so it may be questioned of what persons to what part and in what things Christ conceined and intended that for saking of which he spake For as God is sayd in the Scriptures to be present with vs diuers wayes and to diuers effects namely when he lightneth strengtheneth and inwardly guideth vs with the grace of his spirit or outwardly blesseth our wayes and heareth and helpeth vs in time of trouble so when he withdraweth or with holdeth any of these things from vs whether it be his helpe his blessing or his grace he is sayd to depart and to forsake vs. Now if we take forsaking in Christes words for the losing or lacking of Gods What forsaking could not be found in Christ. fauour grace or spirit it was not possible that any such forsaking should at any time be found in Christ our head though the members of Christ do all well deserue to be depriued of all these things and were depriued of them till by Christ they were restored Since then this kinde of forsaking could neuer be verified of Christes person but only of his members and he suffered for vs t Ephes. 2. 16. to reconcile vs to God by his Crosse these words of Christ on the Crosse some learned Fathers haue expounded to