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opinion_n church_n council_n infallibility_n 587 5 11.2073 5 false
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A94737 Romanism discussed, or, An answer to the nine first articles of H.T. his Manual of controversies. Whereby is manifested, that H.T. hath not (as he pretends) clearly demonstrated the truth of the Roman religion by him falsly called Catholick, by texts of holy scripture, councils of all ages, Fathers of the first five hundred years, common sense, and experience, nor fully answered the principal objections of protestants, whom he unjustly terms sectaries. By John Tombes, B.D. And commended to the world by Mr. Richard Baxter. Tombes, John, 1603?-1676. 1660 (1660) Wing T1815; Thomason E1051_1; ESTC R208181 280,496 251

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maccabee_n to_o be_v canonical_a l._n 19_o moral_a c._n 17._o as_o for_o the_o three_o synod_n of_o carthage_n it_o be_v not_o a_o ecumenical_a synod_n and_o it_o be_v over_o balance_v by_o the_o synod_n of_o laodicea_n before_o it_o who_o omit_v they_o and_o if_o the_o ancient_n term_v the_o apocryphal_a book_n canonical_a or_o divine_a they_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v according_a to_o ruffinus_n his_o explication_n in_o his_o exposition_n on_o the_o creed_n and_o other_o that_o they_o be_v canonical_a in_o a_o sort_n as_o be_v read_v in_o the_o church_n by_o reason_n of_o some_o history_n or_o moral_a sentence_n but_o not_o so_o as_o that_o they_o be_v bring_v to_o confirm_v the_o authority_n of_o faith_n by_o they_o h._n t._n further_o say_v ob._n the_o father_n be_v err_v some_o in_o one_o thing_n some_o in_o another_o answ_n a_o part_n i_o grant_v all_o together_o speak_v of_o any_o one_o age_n i_o deny_v and_o they_o all_o submit_v to_o the_o church_n and_o so_o do_v likewise_o 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and_o yet_o h._n t._n think_v not_o his_o infallibility_n prove_v thereby_o 3._o that_o they_o do_v well_o in_o use_v such_o anathema_n or_o the_o church_n in_o submit_v to_o they_o may_v be_v doubt_v 4._o but_o if_o that_o be_v yield_v that_o they_o do_v well_o yet_o sure_o they_o do_v not_o set_v their_o anathema_n to_o their_o decision_n because_o they_o take_v themselves_o to_o be_v infallible_a either_o by_o their_o own_o authority_n or_o the_o pope_n approbation_n yea_o it_o be_v certain_a the_o council_n do_v set_v to_o their_o anathema_n when_o they_o oppose_v the_o pope_n and_o depose_v they_o and_o define_v themselves_o above_o he_o and_o even_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n put_v their_o anathema_n to_o their_o definition_n afore_o they_o be_v tender_v to_o the_o pope_n or_o pius_n the_o four_o have_v approve_v they_o but_o they_o take_v it_o they_o may_v set_v their_o anathema_n to_o their_o definition_n because_o they_o think_v they_o right_n though_o not_o themselves_o 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that_o salutation_n or_o honorary_a worship_n h._n t._n say_v the_o second_o council_n of_o nice_a allow_v to_o image_n be_v it_o not_o bow_v down_o to_o they_o which_o papist_n themselves_o call_v adoration_n and_o difference_n from_o veneration_n which_o consist_v only_o in_o a_o decent_a usage_n without_o defile_v deface_a or_o such_o usage_n as_o show_v hatred_n and_o contempt_n of_o the_o thing_n or_o person_n represent_v such_o as_o be_v do_v to_o monument_n or_o treasure_n lay_v up_o to_o be_v keep_v but_o not_o as_o thing_n set_v up_o high_o than_o ourselves_o to_o be_v worship_v for_o that_o be_v plain_a idolatry_n and_o the_o very_a same_o with_o the_o gentile_n adoration_n of_o their_o idol_n now_o this_o do_v the_o second_o nicene_n council_n require_v to_o be_v give_v to_o image_n ut_fw-la erigerentur_fw-la &_o adorarentur_fw-la etc._n etc._n yea_o if_o bellarm._n lib._n 2._o the_o imagine_v sanct._n c._n 21._o say_v true_a that_o council_n will_v have_v they_o adore_v 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another_o some_o have_v be_v condemn_v in_o general_a council_n as_o heretic_n nor_o can_v they_o tell_v but_o by_o information_n of_o other_o as_o priests_z or_o carrier_n of_o their_o bull_n or_o breves_fw-la which_o be_v many_o of_o they_o not_o only_o fallible_a but_o also_o false_a as_o some_o of_o their_o own_o have_v complain_v what_o the_o pope_n determine_v and_o what_o fraud_n be_v use_v in_o procure_v pope_n bull_n or_o breves_fw-la sometime_o be_v many_o way_n testify_v as_o that_o the_o bull_n of_o pius_n the_o five_o wherein_z queen_n elizabeth_z be_v excommunicate_v and_o deprive_v be_v get_v in_o a_o fraudulent_a way_n by_o morton_n and_o webb_n 343._o there_o be_v no_o certainty_n from_o the_o report_n of_o other_o what_o the_o pope_n determin_n except_o a_o man_n hear_v he_o preach_v or_o pronounce_v sentence_n or_o see_v he_o write_v and_o seal_v he_o must_v rely_v on_o the_o testimony_n of_o those_o that_o may_v and_o be_v like_a enough_o to_o deceive_v nor_o if_o 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scripture_n as_o in_o their_o communion_n under_o one_o kind_n worship_v of_o image_n and_o ascribe_v to_o they_o power_n by_o their_o authority_n to_o declare_v new_a scripture_n and_o article_n of_o faith_n and_o make_v the_o scripture_n only_o to_o be_v believe_v because_o of_o the_o church_n determination_n that_o be_v the_o pope_n which_o in_o respect_n of_o we_o they_o make_v of_o more_o authority_n than_o the_o scripture_n and_o so_o make_v the_o church_n not_o god_n authority_n the_o formal_a motive_n and_o object_n of_o their_o faith_n so_o that_o if_o unity_n be_v a_o note_n of_o the_o church_n of_o all_o other_o the_o popish_a church_n can_v lay_v least_o claim_n to_o it_o and_o h._n t._n his_o argument_n may_v be_v retort_v the_o catholic_n church_n be_v one_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v not_o one_o therefore_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v not_o the_o catholic_n church_n on_o the_o other_o side_n the_o protestant_n have_v better_a unity_n and_o mean_n of_o unity_n than_o papist_n for_o however_o they_o differ_v in_o ceremony_n and_o discipline_n yet_o in_o point_n of_o faith_n they_o differ_v little_a as_o may_v appear_v by_o the_o harmony_n of_o their_o confession_n which_o show_v agreement_n in_o their_o church_n however_o in_o explication_n of_o point_n private_a doctor_n differ_v and_o they_o have_v a_o more_o sure_a principle_n and_o safe_a in_o own_v one_o master_n even_o christ_n and_o one_o certain_a rule_n to_o know_v the_o mind_n of_o god_n to_o wit_v the_o holy_a scripture_n which_o the_o papist_n themselves_o make_v the_o object_n of_o faith_n and_o the_o translation_n into_o the_o english_a tongue_n make_v plain_a in_o the_o chief_a point_n to_o be_v believe_v so_o that_o every_o ordinary_a man_n may_v be_v certain_a what_o it_o deliver_v concern_v they_o and_o this_o translation_n appear_v to_o be_v certain_a in_o those_o thing_n by_o compare_v it_o even_o with_o the_o papist_n own_o english_a translation_n at_o rheims_n and_o dow●y_n which_o have_v they_o leave_v out_o their_o corrupt_a annotation_n and_o permit_v it_o to_o be_v read_v as_o god_n require_v by_o all_o sort_n of_o person_n the_o falsehood_n and_o error_n of_o popish_a priest_n will_v soon_o appear_v and_o be_v reject_v by_o all_o that_o love_n truth_n sect_n v._o the_o argument_n of_o h._n t._n from_o the_o unity_n of_o a_o natural_a body_n be_v against_o he_o and_o for_o protestant_n but_o h._n t._n add_v a_o second_o argument_n for_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n thus_o as_o a_o natural_a unity_n and_o connexion_n of_o the_o part_n among_o themselves_o and_o to_o the_o head_n be_v necessary_a for_o the_o be_v and_o conservation_n of_o a_o natural_a body_n so_o the_o spiritual_a unity_n and_o connexion_n of_o the_o member_n among_o themselves_o and_o to_o the_o head_n be_v necessary_a for_o the_o be_v and_o conservation_n of_o a_o mystical_a body_n but_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n as_o i_o have_v prove_v be_v a_o mystical_a body_n therefore_o a_o spiritual_a unity_n and_o connexion_n of_o the_o member_n among_o themselves_o and_o to_o the_o head_n be_v necessary_a for_o the_o be_v and_o conservation_n of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n the_o major_n be_v prove_v by_o the_o parity_n of_o reason_n which_o be_v between_o a_o natural_a and_o mystical_a body_n for_o as_o a_o natural_a body_n must_v needs_o die_v if_o all_o its_o part_n by_o which_o it_o shall_v subsist_v be_v tear_v and_o divide_v one_o from_o another_o so_o also_o a_o mystical_a body_n perish_v if_o all_o its_o member_n be_v divide_v from_o one_o another_o and_o from_o the_o head_n whence_o it_o have_v its_o spiritual_a life_n by_o schism_n and_o heresy_n answ_n though_o it_o be_v that_o this_o argument_n be_v only_o from_o a_o similitude_n which_o do_v only_o illustrate_v not_o prove_v as_o logician_n say_v true_o and_o there_o
catholic_n for_o time_n and_o place_n be_v not_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n 2._o but_o the_o protestant_a church_n and_o the_o like_a may_v be_v say_v of_o all_o other_o sectary_n be_v not_o universal_a or_o catholic_n for_o time_n and_o place_n 3._o therefore_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v not_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n the_o major_n have_v be_v prove_v before_o the_o minor_a be_v prove_v because_o before_o luther_n who_o live_v little_a above_o ●ixscore_o year_n ago_o there_o be_v no_o protestant_n to_o be_v find_v in_o the_o whole_a world_n as_o have_v be_v prove_v by_o we_o and_o confess_v by_o our_o adversary_n to_o which_o you_o may_v add_v they_o have_v never_o yet_o be_v able_a to_o convert_v any_o one_o nation_n from_o infidelity_n to_o the_o faith_n of_o christ_n nor_o ever_o have_v communion_n with_o all_o nation_n nor_o indeed_o any_o perfect_a communion_n among_o themselves_o therefore_o they_o can_v be_v the_o catholic_n church_n answ_n the_o major_n that_o church_n which_o be_v not_o universal_a for_o time_n and_o place_n be_v not_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n if_o mean_v of_o actual_a or_o aptitudinal_a universality_n be_v not_o true_a for_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n afore_o cornelius_n be_v convert_v by_o peter_n have_v be_v no_o church_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v actual_o yea_o and_o aptitudinal_o that_o be_v according_a to_o peter_n and_o other_o christian_n circumcise_v their_o opinion_n and_o intention_n to_o be_v confine_v to_o the_o jew_n and_o therefore_o no_o other_o church_n than_o on_o earth_n be_v or_o be_v believe_v by_o peter_n and_o those_o who_o contend_v with_o he_o act._n 11._o 2._o and_o yet_o there_o be_v a_o church_n of_o christ_n before_o as_o be_v manifest_a from_o act_n 2._o 47._o but_o if_o the_o major_n be_v understand_v of_o universality_n of_o faith_n thus_o that_o church_n which_o be_v not_o universal_a for_o time_n and_o place_n by_o hold_v the_o faith_n once_o deliver_v by_o the_o apostle_n to_o 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italian_a faction_n devise_v to_o uphold_v the_o pope_n tyranny_n and_o their_o own_o gain_n and_o therefore_o i_o retort_v the_o argument_n thus_o that_o church_n which_o be_v not_o universal_a or_o catholic_n for_o the_o time_n and_o place_n be_v not_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n but_o the_o popish_a roman_a church_n be_v not_o universal_a or_o catholic_n for_o time_n and_o place_n but_o be_v of_o late_o stand_v therefore_o it_o be_v not_o the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n sect_n vii_o the_o word_n of_o irenaeus_n origen_n lactantius_n cyril_n of_o jerusalem_n augustin_n be_v not_o for_o the_o universality_n of_o h._n t._n which_o he_o assert_v the_o catholicism_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n but_o against_o it_o as_o for_o the_o word_n of_o the_o father_n which_o h._n t._n allege_v on_o this_o article_n they_o be_v not_o for_o h._n t._n his_o purpose_n to_o prove_v that_o that_o be_v the_o only_a true_a church_n which_o be_v subject_a to_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n or_o that_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v the_o catholic_n church_n but_o they_o prove_v the_o contrary_n for_o the_o word_n of_o irenaem_n l._n 4._o adv_n haereses_fw-la c._n 43._o be_v these_o wherefore_o we_o ought_v to_o obey_v those_o presbyter_n which_o be_v in_o the_o church_n those_o which_o have_v succession_n from_o the_o apostle_n as_o we_o have_v show_v who_o with_o the_o succession_n of_o bishopric_n have_v receive_v the_o certain_a gift_n of_o truth_n according_a to_o the_o pleasure_n of_o the_o father_n but_o to_o have_v the_o rest_n suspect_v either_o as_o heretic_n and_o of_o evil_a opinion_n or_o as_o renter_n and_o lift_v up_o and_o please_v themselves_o or_o again_o as_o hypocrite_n work_v for_o gain_n and_o vain_a glory_n sake_n who_o depart_v from_o the_o original_a succession_n and_o be_v gather_v in_o every_o place_n for_o all_o these_o fall_n from_o the_o truth_n by_o which_o it_o may_v be_v perceive_v 1._o that_o h._n t._n omit_v sundry_a word_n which_o will_v have_v show_v that_o presbyter_n and_o bishop_n be_v all_o one_o 2._o that_o irenaeus_n require_v that_o those_o to_o who_o he_o will_v have_v obedience_n give_v be_v such_o as_o have_v not_o only_a succession_n of_o place_n but_o also_o the_o certain_a gift_n of_o truth_n whence_o it_o follow_v 1._o that_o this_o speech_n do_v not_o prove_v that_o we_o be_v to_o obey_v only_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n or_o the_o roman_a church_n but_o any_o presbyter_n 2._o that_o the_o succession_n require_v be_v not_o confine_v to_o rome_n but_o extend_v to_o any_o place_n 3._o that_o succession_n to_o any_o of_o the_o apostle_n as_o well_o as_o peter_n be_v term_v original_a succession_n 4._o that_o presbyter_n who_o in_o any_o place_n depart_v not_o from_o the_o truth_n be_v in_o the_o church_n and_o therefore_o this_o place_n be_v so_o far_o from_o prove_v the_o necessity_n of_o unity_n with_o the_o roman_a church_n or_o that_o it_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n that_o it_o prove_v the_o contrary_a the_o 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christ_n if_o the_o term_n mother_n church_n be_v from_o hence_o that_o from_o it_o the_o gospel_n go_v forth_o it_o can_v be_v mean_v of_o none_o but_o jerusalem_n from_o whence_o the_o gospel_n go_v into_o all_o the_o world_n not_o from_o the_o roman_a church_n nor_o be_v it_o true_a that_o the_o roman_a church_n have_v the_o power_n of_o headship_n over_o all_o the_o rest_n no_o not_o according_a to_o the_o papist_n own_o opinion_n which_o be_v that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n have_v this_o power_n and_o that_o it_o belong_v to_o his_o pastoral_a office_n now_o i_o suppose_v they_o will_v not_o say_v the_o church_n have_v the_o pastoral_a office_n or_o that_o they_o be_v pastor_n if_o they_o shall_v they_o must_v make_v woman_n who_o be_v of_o the_o church_n as_o well_o as_o man_n pastor_n and_o all_o the_o believer_n who_o be_v the_o church_n pastor_n as_o well_o as_o the_o bishop_n and_o if_o the_o church_n be_v pastor_n or_o have_v power_n of_o jurisdiction_n who_o be_v the_o 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it_o will_v appear_v that_o the_o claim_n to_o it_o be_v mere_o impudent_a and_o arrogant_a without_o any_o colour_n of_o right_n nor_o in_o possession_n for_o beside_o the_o protestant_a church_n the_o greek_a church_n neither_o now_o nor_o heretofore_o when_o unquestionable_o orthodox_n be_v ever_o subject_a to_o the_o romish_a bishop_n yet_o be_v these_o thing_n grant_v to_o h._n t._n that_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v mother_n and_o head_n be_v this_o a_o fit_a reason_n to_o term_v it_o catholic_a will_v any_o call_v a_o mother_n of_o twenty_o child_n all_o she_o twenty_o child_n will_v any_o man_n call_v julius_n caesar_n because_o dictator_n of_o rome_n or_o the_o roman_a senate_n because_o ruler_n all_o the_o roman_a people_n or_o all_o the_o people_n of_o that_o empire_n h._n t._n his_o instance_n be_v frivolous_a though_o man_n call_v the_o ruler_n of_o a_o army_n the_o captain_n general_n yet_o not_o a_o general_a man_n or_o the_o universal_a army_n and_o suitable_o if_o it_o 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the_o deceit_n of_o h._n t._n be_v show_v in_o assert_v a_o infallibility_n and_o judicature_n of_o controversy_n in_o the_o church_n which_o he_o mean_v of_o the_o pope_n h._n t._n entitle_v his_o five_o article_n thus_o the_o church_n infallibility_n demonstrate_v and_o say_v our_o tenet_n be_v that_o the_o roman_a catholic_a church_n be_v the_o high_a visible_a judge_n of_o controversy_n and_o that_o she_o be_v infallible_a both_o in_o her_o proposition_n and_o definition_n of_o all_o point_n of_o faith_n have_v a_o power_n from_o god_n to_o oblige_v all_o man_n to_o believe_v she_o under_o pain_n of_o damnation_n and_o six_o page_n after_o p._n 70._o he_o say_v thus_o note_v here_o for_o your_o better_a understanding_n this_o whole_a question_n that_o when_o we_o affirm_v the_o church_n be_v infallible_a in_o thing_n of_o faith_n by_o the_o word_n church_n we_o understand_v not_o only_o the_o church_n diffuse_v over_o all_o the_o world_n unanimous_o teach_v who_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n we_o hold_v to_o be_v infallible_a but_o also_o the_o church_n represent_v in_o a_o council_n perfect_o ecumenical_a that_o be_v to_o say_v call_v out_o of_o the_o whole_a world_n and_o approve_v by_o the_o pope_n who_o definition_n of_o faith_n we_o hold_v to_o be_v infallible_a ans_fw-fr we_o have_v here_o a_o most_o arrogant_a proud_a claim_n like_o that_o of_o the_o king_n of_o tyrus_n ezek._n 28._o 2_o 3._o i_o be_o god_n i_o sit_v in_o the_o seat_n of_o god_n there_o be_v no_o secret_a that_o they_o can_v hide_v from_o i_o for_o what_o be_v this_o less_o which_o be_v here_o ascribe_v to_o mere_a man_n often_o the_o worst_a of_o man_n than_o the_o prerogative_n of_o the_o son_n of_o god_n sure_o its_o more_o than_o angel_n have_v job_n 4._o 18_o but_o though_o this_o author_n be_v bold_a enough_o in_o the_o title_n and_o tenet_n yet_o in_o his_o after_o note_n he_o have_v such_o subterfuge_n as_o show_v his_o despair_n of_o make_v it_o good_a and_o his_o deceitful_a mockage_n of_o his_o unwary_a reader_n for_o 1._o he_o deal_v like_o a_o sophister_n that_o after_o his_o argument_n state_n the_o question_n 2._o he_o do_v so_o shift_v off_o this_o infallibility_n from_o one_o to_o another_o that_o he_o know_v not_o well_o where_o to_o fix_v it_o fain_o he_o will_v fasten_v it_o on_o the_o pope_n as_o he_o do_v in_o a_o manner_n at_o last_o and_o hart_n more_o plain_o confess_v with_o rainold_n ch_n 7._o divis_fw-la 7._o though_o it_o behoove_v the_o pope_n to_o use_v the_o advice_n of_o his_o brethren_n and_o therefore_o i_o speak_v of_o confistory_n court_n and_o council_n yet_o whether_o he_o follow_v their_o advice_n or_o no_o his_o decree_n be_v true_a but_o then_o the_o argument_n from_o scripture_n and_o father_n which_o speak_v of_o the_o church_n not_o of_o the_o pope_n have_v appear_v to_o be_v impertinent_a therefore_o he_o do_v not_o in_o plain_a word_n disclaim_v its_o infallibility_n but_o say_v when_o we_o affirm_v the_o church_n be_v 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in_o his_o day_n of_o which_o he_o warn_v christian_n and_o our_o lord_n christ_n command_v revel_v 2._o 2._o the_o angel_n of_o the_o church_n of_o ephesus_n in_o that_o he_o have_v try_v some_o that_o say_v they_o be_v apostle_n and_o be_v not_o and_o have_v find_v they_o liar_n as_o for_o some_o of_o those_o thing_n which_o ancient_n have_v call_v apostolical_a tradition_n the_o papist_n themselves_o do_v reject_v they_o as_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o millenaries_n the_o keep_n of_o easter_n as_o the_o quartodeciman_n hold_v the_o giving_z the_o communion_n to_o infant_n and_o many_o more_o and_o therefore_o all_o apostolical_a tradition_n so_o term_v can_v be_v the_o rule_n of_o trial_n nor_o can_v they_o give_v we_o any_o sure_a note_n by_o which_o we_o may_v distinguish_v genuine_a apostolical_a tradition_n unwritten_a from_o they_o that_o be_v supposititious_a it_o be_v true_a the_o oral_a tradition_n of_o the_o apostle_n while_o they_o live_v and_o there_o be_v access_n to_o they_o may_v be_v fit_a to_o be_v a_o mean_n to_o try_v spirit_n by_o but_o the_o relation_n of_o irenaeus_n lib._n 2._o adv_n haeres_fw-la cap._n 39_o about_o christ_n age_n and_o the_o censure_n give_v of_o papias_n in_o eusebius_n plain_o show_v how_o quick_o such_o tradition_n come_v to_o be_v mistake_n and_o the_o very_a reason_n of_o john_n 1_o epist_n 4._o 1._o do_v take_v we_o off_o from_o try_v by_o such_o tradition_n because_o of_o the_o multitude_n of_o deceiver_n and_o therefore_o require_v that_o such_o spirit_n as_o pretend_a tradition_n shall_v be_v try_v by_o a_o unerring_a rule_n which_o be_v the_o holy_a scripture_n but_o h._n t._n take_v up_o the_o blasphemous_a reproach_n which_o some_o impudent_a rail_a papist_n have_v heretofore_o give_v to_o the_o holy_a scripture_n when_o it_o bid_v we_o not_o try_v by_o the_o dead_a letter_n by_o which_o he_o mean_v the_o scripture_n in_o contradistinction_n to_o unwritten_a tradition_n which_o sure_o be_v not_o the_o 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of_o bread_n or_o little_a water_n cake_n or_o that_o a_o jew_n shall_v buy_v one_o or_o do_v such_o a_o act_n before_o witness_n which_o will_v bring_v so_o much_o evil_n on_o he_o the_o thing_n seem_v more_o likely_a to_o have_v be_v a_o devise_a tale_n to_o pick_v a_o quarrel_n with_o the_o jew_n as_o it_o be_v in_o those_o day_n usual_a for_o a_o pretence_n to_o get_v their_o good_n as_o it_o have_v be_v do_v to_o the_o templar_n sure_o there_o be_v no_o justice_n to_o burn_v thirty_o eight_o for_o the_o fact_n of_o one_o much_o less_o to_o banish_v all_o jew_n thence_o and_o why_o be_v nothing_o do_v to_o paul_n form_n either_o it_o be_v therefore_o a_o mee●_n fiction_n like_o one_o of_o those_o in_o sir_n john_n mandevil_n travail_n or_o else_o a_o device_n to_o sti●_n up_o rage_n against_o the_o jew_n that_o they_o may_v prey_v on_o their_o good_n 6._o be_v it_o yield_v as_o it_o be_v not_o that_o there_o be_v truth_n in_o these_o relation_n yet_o the_o most_o that_o can_v be_v collect_v be_v that_o god_n will_v vindicate_v francis_n from_o some_o ill_a opinion_n or_o report_n of_o he_o not_o that_o he_o may_v be_v extol_v as_o horatius_n turselin_n in_o his_o blasphemous_a epigram_n do_v as_o if_o he_o be_v comparable_a with_o christ_n or_o that_o either_o the_o pope_n supremacy_n or_o the_o order_n of_o friar_n or_o the_o verity_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n then_o much_o less_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o present_a roman_a church_n shall_v be_v confirm_v nor_o if_o the_o other_o accident_n be_v true_a do_v it_o follow_v that_o god_n will_v thereby_o confirm_v the_o opinion_n of_o transubstantiation_n but_o the_o verity_n of_o christ_n be_v the_o son_n of_o god_n and_o we_o may_v more_o just_o answer_v concern_v i●_n than_o bellarmin_n do_v concern_v the_o miracle_n of_o the_o novatian_a bishop_n that_o it_o be_v do_v not_o to_o confirm_v the_o novatian_a faith_n but_o catholic_n baptism_n so_o the_o other_o be_v do_v not_o to_o confirm_v the_o popish_a opinion_n of_o transubstantiation_n but_o the_o christian_a doctrine_n of_o the_o man_n christ_n his_o be_v the_o son_n of_o god_n h._n t._n add_v notwithstanding_o this_o confession_n of_o adversary_n i_o will_v also_o all_o some_o father_n of_o who_o relation_n of_o miracle_n it_o be_v not_o worth_a while_n to_o consider_v whether_o they_o be_v true_a or_o not_o there_o be_v not_o one_o of_o they_o that_o prove_v this_o point_n that_o the_o church_n which_o want_v miracle_n be_v not_o the_o true_a church_n or_o that_o the_o present_a roman_a doctrine_n or_o church_n be_v the_o true_a doctrine_n or_o church_n that_o which_o cyprian_n and_o optatus_n relate_v if_o true_a do_v only_o vindicate_v the_o lord_n supper_n from_o contempt_n that_o of_o gregory_n thaumaturgus_n whether_o it_o be_v so_o or_o only_o a_o report_n of_o which_o good_a man_n be_v sometime_o too_o credulous_a it_o prove_v not_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n but_o rather_o if_o any_o of_o the_o greek_a church_n which_o own_v not_o the_o pope_n supremacy_n nor_o their_o doctrine_n in_o that_o age_n much_o less_o be_v that_o which_o he_o bring_v out_o of_o chrysostom_n concern_v the_o relic_n of_o babylas_n for_o his_o purpose_n since_o it_o be_v express_o say_v to_o have_v prove_v against_o infidel_n that_o christ_n be_v the_o son_n of_o god_n and_o the_o idol_n of_o the_o gentile_n be_v vain_a thing_n which_o no_o more_o prove_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o roman_a then_o of_o the_o protestant_a church_n nor_o so_o much_o as_o of_o the_o greek_a church_n who_o hold_v the_o same_o that_o of_o ambrose_n concern_v his_o brother_n satyrus_n prove_v not_o transubstantiation_n but_o rather_o the_o contrary_a since_o satyrus_n adore_v not_o the_o eucharist_n when_o he_o keep_v it_o and_o that_o he_o do_v keep_v he_o from_o drown_v be_v but_o a_o conjecture_n nor_o be_v it_o prove_v that_o god_n by_o that_o accident_n approve_v his_o superstition_n though_o he_o may_v reward_v his_o faith_n and_o love_n of_o which_o that_o be_v a_o sign_n what_o augustin_n l._n 22._o the_o civet_n dei_fw-la c._n 8._o write_v of_o thing_n do_v in_o his_o time_n be_v not_o undoubted_a since_o some_o of_o they_o be_v relate_v upon_o the_o report_n of_o one_o or_o more_o not_o very_o judicious_a who_o may_v enlarge_v thing_n beyond_o truth_n especial_o when_o the_o custom_n be_v of_o read_v the_o relation_n to_o the_o people_n and_o they_o be_v press_v in_o conscience_n to_o divulge_v they_o as_o there_o augustin_n say_v be_v do_v by_o he_o and_o it_o seem_v so_o much_o for_o advantage_n of_o christian_a religion_n some_o of_o they_o may_v be_v by_o medicine_n work_v beyond_o expectation_n though_o attribute_v as_o the_o fashion_n be_v to_o that_o which_o be_v last_o
infallible_a since_o sensible_a evidence_n in_o a_o world_n of_o eye-witness_n unanimous_o concur_v be_v altogether_o infallible_a how_o fallible_a soever_o man_n may_v be_v in_o their_o particular_n but_o there_o be_v world_n of_o eye-witness_n and_o hand-witness_n and_o tongue-witness_n and_o nose-witness_n and_o ear-witness_n of_o father_n and_o son_n who_o all_o unanimous_o concur_v discern_v and_o say_v of_o what_o they_o have_v see_v feel_v hear_v taste_v smell_v that_o there_o be_v no_o flesh_n nor_o blood_n but_o bread_n and_o wine_n in_o the_o consecrate_a host_n therefore_o the_o report_n that_o there_o be_v no_o flesh_n and_o blood_n but_o bread_n and_o wine_n in_o the_o eucharist_n after_o consecration_n or_o consecrate_a host_n and_o consequent_o no_o transubstantiation_n be_v altogether_o infallible_a so_o inconsistent_a be_v this_o author_n saying_n in_o one_o place_n with_o that_o he_o say_v in_o another_o as_o indeed_o popish_a doctrine_n be_v a_o lie_n must_v of_o necessity_n be_v self-repugnant_a sect_n iii_o the_o obligation_n of_o the_o church_n not_o to_o deliver_v any_o thing_n as_o a_o point_n of_o faith_n but_o what_o they_o receive_v prove_v not_o unwritten_a tradition_n a_o rule_n of_o faith_n h._n t._n proceed_v thus_o a_o three_o argument_n if_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n have_v give_v to_o the_o church_n of_o the_o first_o age_n together_o with_o all_o point_n of_o faith_n this_o for_o the_o rule_n of_o faith_n that_o nothing_o on_o pain_n of_o damnation_n ought_v to_o be_v deliver_v for_o faith_n but_o what_o they_o have_v receive_v from_o they_o as_o such_o then_o be_v be_v impossible_a that_o they_o shall_v deliver_v any_o thing_n for_o faith_n to_o the_o second_o age_n but_o what_o they_o have_v receive_v from_o they_o as_o such_o and_o so_o from_o age_n to_o age_n to_o this_o time_n but_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n do_v give_v to_o the_o church_n of_o the_o first_o age_n together_o with_o all_o point_n of_o faith_n this_o for_o the_o rule_n of_o faith_n that_o nothing_o on_o pain_n of_o damnation_n ought_v to_o be_v deliver_v for_o faith_n but_o what_o they_o receive_v from_o they_o as_o such_o therefore_o it_o be_v impossible_a that_o the_o church_n of_o the_o first_o age_n shall_v deliver_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o church_n of_o the_o second_o age_n for_o faith_n but_o what_o they_o have_v receive_v as_o such_o from_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n or_o consequent_o that_o they_o shall_v err_v in_o faith_n the_o major_n be_v prove_v because_o to_o make_v she_o deliver_v more_o for_o faith_n than_o she_o have_v receive_v in_o this_o supposition_n the_o whole_a church_n must_v either_o have_v forget_v what_o she_o have_v be_v teach_v from_o her_o infancy_n in_o matter_n of_o salvation_n and_o damnation_n which_o be_v impossible_a in_o a_o world_n of_o ear_n and_o eye-witness_n as_o have_v be_v show_v or_o else_o the_o whole_a church_n must_v have_v so_o far_o break_v with_o reason_n which_o be_v the_o very_a nature_n of_o man_n as_o to_o conspire_v in_o a_o notorious_a lie_n to_o damn_v herself_o and_o posterity_n by_o say_v she_o have_v receive_v such_o or_o such_o a_o point_n for_o faith_n which_o in_o she_o own_o conscience_n she_o know_v she_o have_v not_o receive_v and_o this_o be_v more_o impossible_a than_o the_o former_a even_o as_o impossible_a as_o for_o man_n not_o to_o be_v man_n as_o shall_v be_v show_v in_o the_o next_o argument_n the_o minor_a be_v prove_v by_o these_o positive_a text_n of_o scripture_n therefore_o brethren_n stand_v you_o fast_o and_o hold_v the_o tradition_n which_o you_o have_v learn_v whether_o by_o word_n or_o our_o epistle_n 2_o thess_n 2._o 15._o those_o thing_n which_o you_o have_v be_v teach_v and_o hear_v and_o see_v in_o i_o these_o do_v you_o phil._n 4._o so_o we_o have_v preach_v and_o so_o you_o have_v believe_v 1_o cor._n 14._o 15._o how_o shall_v they_o believe_v in_o who_o they_o have_v not_o hear_v and_o how_o shall_v they_o hear_v without_o a_o preacher_n rom._n 10._o 17._o the_o thing_n that_o thou_o have_v hear_v of_o i_o before_o many_o witness_n the_o same_o commend_v thou_o to_o faithful_a man_n which_o shall_v be_v fit_a to_o teach_v other_o also_o 2_o tim._n 2._o 2._o if_o any_o man_n shall_v preach_v otherwise_o than_o you_o have_v receive_v let_v he_o be_v anathema_n gal._n 1._o 9_o although_o we_o or_o a_o angel_n from_o heaven_n preach_v to_o you_o beside_o that_o which_o we_o have_v preach_v to_o you_o be_v he_o anathema_n gal._n 1._o 8._o answ_n 1._o the_o conclusion_n be_v it_o grant_v be_v not_o the_o position_n to_o be_v prove_v that_o the_o true_a rule_n of_o christian_a faith_n be_v apostolical_a oral_a tradition_n not_o book_n nor_o be_v it_o include_v in_o it_o since_o some_o in_o the_o church_n although_o not_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o the_o first_o age_n may_v deliver_v to_o the_o church_n of_o the_o second_o age_n and_o so_o from_o father_n to_o son_n that_o for_o faith_n which_o be_v not_o receive_v from_o christ_n or_o his_o apostle_n and_o it_o be_v after_o receive_v as_o from_o the_o apostle_n as_o be_v manifest_a in_o the_o report_n of_o keep_v easter_n on_o the_o fourteen_o of_o the_o moon_n of_o the_o millenary_a opinion_n as_o from_o john_n and_o in_o point_n of_o faith_n the_o whole_a church_n may_v mistake_v or_o forget_v not_o deliver_v all_o truth_n yea_o may_v err_v and_o so_o not_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v a_o rule_n of_o faith_n 2._o be_v it_o grant_v that_o unwritten_a tradition_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o the_o first_o age_n to_o the_o second_o be_v a_o rule_n of_o faith_n yet_o be_v not_o the_o romanist_n tradition_n unwritten_a prove_v rule_n of_o faith_n unless_o they_o be_v prove_v to_o be_v deliver_v by_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o the_o first_o age_n to_o the_o church_n of_o the_o second_o age_n and_o so_o from_o father_n to_o son_n without_o alteration_n which_o they_o can_v prove_v nevertheless_o since_o this_o argument_n tend_v to_o the_o assert_v of_o a_o infallibility_n in_o the_o church_n of_o the_o first_o age_n distinct_o take_v from_o the_o apostle_n and_o their_o write_n i_o grant_v the_o minor_a and_o omit_v the_o examine_n of_o the_o text_n bring_v to_o prove_v it_o though_o some_o of_o they_o yield_v a_o good_a argument_n against_o unwritten_a tradition_n but_o i_o deny_v the_o major_n as_o be_v contrary_a to_o experience_n both_o in_o the_o jewish_a church_n to_o who_o it_o be_v forbid_v to_o add_v to_o or_o diminish_v from_o god_n command_n deut._n 4._o 2._o and_o yet_o they_o do_v mark_v 7._o 8._o 9_o and_o in_o the_o christian_a church_n as_o be_v most_o evident_a in_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o chiliast_n about_o easter_n and_o sundry_a other_o thing_n and_o though_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o the_o first_o age_n do_v not_o deliver_v point_n of_o faith_n to_o the_o second_o age_n yet_o in_o the_o second_o and_o after-age_n corruption_n do_v come_v in_o which_o be_v take_v for_o universal_a tradition_n as_o in_o give_v infant_n the_o eucharist_n which_o augustine_n and_o pope_n innocentius_n take_v for_o a_o apostolical_a tradition_n though_o the_o trent_n council_n condemn_v it_o and_o many_o thing_n there_o be_v now_o take_v for_o apostolical_a tradition_n as_o worship_n of_o image_n pray_v to_o saint_n not_o allow_v the_o wine_n to_o be_v drink_v by_o all_o the_o communicant_n which_o yet_o be_v manifest_o repugnant_a to_o the_o apostle_n doctrine_n as_o for_o the_o proof_n of_o h._n t._n i_o say_v 1._o the_o eye_n and_o ear-witness_n of_o all_o the_o point_n of_o faith_n be_v not_o a_o whole_a world_n 2._o error_n may_v be_v traduce_v as_o from_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o the_o first_o age_n and_o from_o the_o apostle_n which_o be_v not_o from_o they_o 3._o the_o church_n deliver_v not_o doctrine_n but_o the_o teacher_n in_o they_o whereof_o many_o sometime_o be_v hypocrite_n sometime_o weak_a in_o understanding_n all_o of_o they_o be_v man_n be_v liable_a to_o mistake_n passion_n forgetfulness_n inadvertency_n and_o those_o that_o be_v not_o sincere_a may_v against_o their_o conscience_n deliver_v error_n sure_o if_o polycarpus_n a_o auditor_n of_o john_n the_o evangelist_n and_o anicetus_n bishop_n of_o rome_n in_o the_o second_o age_n polycrates_n and_o pope_n victor_n in_o the_o same_o age_n cyprian_a and_o pope_n stephanus_n in_o the_o next_o contradict_v each_o other_o about_o tradition_n no_o marvel_n late_a and_o inferior_a teacher_n such_o as_o papias_n a_o credulous_a man_n and_o other_o mistake_v about_o they_o and_o the_o after_o church_n follow_v they_o in_o their_o mistake_n 4._o the_o church_n be_v in_o the_o apostle_n day_n easy_o draw_v away_o from_o the_o doctrine_n which_o paul_n have_v evident_o teach_v they_o by_o harken_v to_o seducer_n as_o the_o galatian_n gal._n 3._o 1._o though_o the_o