Selected quad for the lemma: opinion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
opinion_n	church_n	council_n	infallibility_n	587	5	11.2073	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A18357	Six sermons now first published, preached by that learned and worthy divine Edward Chaloner lately deceas'd, Dr in Divinity, sometimes Chaplaine in Ordinary to our soveraigne K. Iames, and to his Maiesty that now is: and late Principall of Alban Hall in Oxford. Printed according to the author's coppies, written with his owne hand	Chaloner, Edward, 1590 or 91-1625.; Sherman, Abraham, 1601 or 2-1654.	1629 (1629)	STC 4937; ESTC S107649	98,854	158

current of the greater faction ran the quite contrary way yet they which were of our opinion submitted themselues to the obedience of the Church of Rome which Luther did not So that if any aske where was our Church before Luthers rising I answere it was in Rome and the Romane Iurisdiction perhaps not in the Popes privy chamber yet in his Court amongst his greatest counsellours agents doctours writers prelates Then did Gregorius Ariminensis doubt how any such place as Limbus puerorum might stand with the doctrine of the primitiue Church then did Richardus de Sancto Victore Gerson and Durand deny that distinction of veniall and mortall sinnes then did Scotus Cameracensis and Waldensis refute those merits of congruity and condignity Bernard with others justification by inherent qualities thē did the M. of the Sentences not once mētion transubstantiation Bonaventure doubted of it Cajetan confes'd that though in word most doe affirme it yet in deed many deny it thinking nothing lesse Then did many saith Bacon deny that Purgatory could bee proved by Scriptures Willielmus Altisiodorensis said it was a common opinion of his time that wee neither doe properly pray to Saints nor Saints for vs Then did Mirandula withstand worshipping of images the Sorbonistes the Popes infallibility many his indulgences and pardons and most good men his Iurisdiction in the temporall affaires of princes So that hee which shall seeke reconciliation betweene vs and them because before the Councell of Trent wee jumpt in opinions with many of their men or at lest not greatly swarv'd from them will fight very much without an enemy and forgets that the Papists by the Church which they would vnder paine of damnation binde every man to beleeue vnderstand not the Church which was sixty or an hundred yeares since but the present Church as Bellarmine and their great Doctours doe interpret Secondly wee distinguish of Romane Catholickes whereof as in all religions so in theirs some are more moderate and whether through ignorance of their owne doctrine or through an impartiality of judgement as divers learned men in France or through an accusation of their conscience as most at the time of death especially touching the doctrine of merits doe greatly incline to our tenents others are professed Romanists both in letter and title and swarne not a whit from the determination of the Church The former I leaue in this controversie the demonstration of the probleme shall bee in the latter Thirdly because wee propose the question whether wee and they doe differ not onely in lighter matters but also in those which concerne the foundation of religion lest any should misconceiue our meaning let vs adde a third distinction that a foundation of religion is overthrow'd two wayes either in flat termes when a maine principle of faith is absolutely denyed as the deity and the consubstantiality of the Sonne by Arrius the trinity of the persons by Sabellius and Servetus the resurrection of the body by Hymenaeus and Philetus and the last judgement by S Peters mockers or 2ly by consequent when any opinion is maintained which by just sequell overturneth the truth of that principle which the defendant professeth to hold So the Minaei of whom St Ierome speakes whil'st they vrged circumcision by consequent according to Paules rule rejected Christ so the Pelagians whil'st they defended a full perfection of our righteousnesse in our selues by a consequent overthrew Christs justification Popery comes in the latter ranke it pronounceth the same wordes of the Bible beleeues them it repeates the same Creed Apostolique Nicene and Athanasian and adheres to it but it denyes each article by a consequent because it denyes the true exposition of the article Non enim in verbis sed in sensu fides est saith Bellarmine nec idem symbolum habemus si in explicatione dissidemus Our beliefe stayes not it selfe vpon the words but vpon the sense nor haue wee the same Creed if we differ in the explanation of it The Arrians Novatians Nestorians and almost all heretickes haue ever agreed vpō the same Creed but because they agreed not vpon the meaning of it they therefore consequently may bee said to deny it The state therefore of our position in summe is this That a pure profest Romanist which strictly adheres to the doctrine of the Pope and of the Romane Church since the Councell of Trent doth differ from this reformed Church of ours in such fundamentall pointes that if not directly yet by a consequence wee must needes hold him to deny sundry articles of faith and therefore all hope of reconciliation to be taken away In the proofe of which assertion because I will not stand vpon such differences as perhaps arise betwixt private persons on both sides I will take for the Papists side the Councell of Trent begun in the yeare 1545 celebrated by three Popes Paulus tertius Iulius tertius and Pius quartus received by all succeeding Popes and vnder paine of Anathema or curse enjoyned to be beleeved by all Catholicks For our side I will take the booke of Articles Homelyes and such bookes as to which wee all doe subscribe And that wee may the better proceed in such pointes as may cause a separation from a Church let vs examine those things which the 19th article makes to bee the notes of a Church to wit the pure preaching of the Word and the right administration of the Sacraments Now the controversie betwixt vs the Church of Rome concerning the preaching of the Word are either of the Word it selfe or of the things delivered in the Word Touching the Word wee agree that it is infallible but we differ mainely three manner of wayes first in setting downe what is Scripture and what is not The Councell of Trent in the fourth Session reckons vp all those bookes which we terme Apocrypha to be Canonicall and saith that the Church doth pari pietatis affectu ac reverentiâ suscipere venerari receiue them with the same reverence and affection as it doth the other bookes of the Old or New Testaments Our booke of Articles in the sixth Article saith of these Apocrypha bookes that the Church doth reade them as Hierome saith for example of life and instruction of manners but yet doth not apply them to establish any doctrine So then it doth not receiue them with the same reverence affection as it doth the other Secondly we differ in the interpretation of the Scriptures The Councell of Trent in the same Session forbids any man to interprete the Scripture contra eum sensum quem tenuit aut tenet sancta mater Ecclesia contrary to the sense which the holy mother the Church hath held or doth hold by the Church saith Bellarmine in his 3 booke de verbo Dei and 3 chap. vnderstanding Pontificem cum Concilio the Pope in a Councell in which opinion hee affirmes all Catholickes to concurre Our booke of Articles in the sixteenth art saith that a generall Councell

Tunc enim reddidit Basilicas haereticis sayth Saint Austine quando templa daemoniis he restored at the same time Churches to heretickes and Temples to divels The best advised therefore and most judicious haue in all ages resisted with might and maine these crafty divices of the divell who when hee knowes errour to bee too weake whilst it stands in hostile opposition with the truth would yet seeke to advance it by way of friendship and amity Excellent was that resolution of Saint Basill to the president of Valence the Emperour who desired him to yeeld to some moderation and not to make such a rent in the Church for small subtilties Those which are throughly season'd with true religiō will rather suffer all kinds of death then giue way for the altering of one syllable A man would thinke it but a small difference it it but a little iota betweene 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yet the right beleevers could never be brought as Theodoret witnesseth either to omit the one or admit the other It is true indeed which Ireneus hath written It is better not to search the causes of things and to know nothing but Iesus Christ then by subtilties ad bablings to fall into impiety and that of Hillary that God calls vs not to happinesse by hard questions and againe Dulce pacis nomen that the name of peace should be sweete amongst Christians yet both of these do they not with what vehemency they can oppose errours How many labyrinths and perplexities is Ireneus compelled to rippe vp that hee might freç the truth from prodigious fallacies how sollicitous and earnest was Hillary in dissolving the cavils of the Arrians shall wee terme these Fathers contentious or rather good and obedient souldiers that where Christ proclaimed warre and sayd he came not to send peace but the sword they would not bee so inconsiderate as to treat on the Articles of peace The Iewish ceremonies you know had beene elements in their time and God had vsed them before as the first letters of the booke to schoole his people with yet the Gospell of Christ beeing planted in the Church of Galatia might haue no copartnership with them in this chapter Saint Paul relates how he withstood Peter to the face for admitting of them ingeminates anathema to such as Preached otherwise and protests vnto them not hiding his face nor dissembling his name Behold I Paul say vnto you that if ye be circumcised Christ shall profit you nothing Now when Moses and Christ together were so offensiue to him he would never haue heard of a reconciliation betweene Christ and Belial light and darkenesse righteousnesse and vnrighteousnesse the Temple of God and Idols the cup of the Lord and the cup of divels in the communion whereof hee noteth an impossibility in both his Epistles to the Corinthians If therefore the reconciling and attoning of truth and falsehood bee so dislike in Gods pure eyes and so dangerous to his Church with what colour can some in our dayes take in hand the reconciling Protestancy and Popery of Christ and Antichrist at the least as they pretend in all matters of moment and points necessary to salvation I feare it is not a generall agreement which they aime at on both sides which is as impossible to effect as to bring the Northerne and Southerne pole into one center but rather as Calvin well notes to gaiue a liberty to themselues in particular and a plausible acceptance at the adverse partie This taske I finde enterprized by divers first Cassander who was set on worke by Ferdinand and Maximilian the Emperours to compose if possibly hee could the dissentions of the Church wrote his consultation of it and thought that a meane betwixt the rigid Papist and Protestant was best whiles the one might remit somewhat of their pride and needelelesse ceremonies the other hard constructions of the Papists determinations which though they might bee false yet hee tooke them not to bee so dangerous as they were conceiued To him wee may joyne Andreas Frisius de emendanda repub Bartholomaeus Nervus which defended Cassander and Seravius Modestus who in his tract intitled the duty of a godly man in these dissentions would make the rupture and breach betweene vs and the Church of Rome to bee a case of scisme and not heresie that is to consist in matters of lesse moment and not in fundamentall pointes of salvation After these others haue continued the plea in Germany the Interremists in France hec whosoever hec were that wrote the pacificall discourse to proue that Hugonets of good right may bee accounted members of the Roman Church With what successe or applause the world hath receiued these treatyes of peace I leaue to those to judge who haue observed with what violence and indignation these subtle practises of the Pope haue from time to time beene resisted It is not amity and vnion which our men haue in these things rejected as farre as they can in all contoversies the most learned haue distinctly set downe the pointes of agreement but they saw the fraud of the enemy and therefore preferred just warre before an vnjust peace Temporall princes might respect herein the quiet of their state but the Popes instruments gaine doubly by it for first they would by bringing vs to the vnity of their Church keepe vs in obedience to the See of Rome secondly by working an opinion of agreement in the maynest pointes of religion winne vs to come over to them the more easily in all pointes It shall not therefore be amisse by way of prevention to shew somewhat of this matter and though it would be over long to runne through the differences betweene particular writers on both sides which are infinite and perhaps not so evident to proue to all men my position yet the state of these dangerous times wherein too many doe fall from cooling to benumbednesse from slackenes to defection from indifferency to sencelesnesse and a loathing of all religion doth require that somewhat bee set downe out of the allowed bookes and writings established by both Churches whether the differences in fundamentall points bee such as hitherto we haue made the world to beleeue That wee may not bee mistaken or thought over hot in parting the fray to make it greater I will set downe certaine conclusions wherein wee will not greatly dissent from these peace-makers in this question First it is one thing to speake of the Church of Rome before the Councell of Trent and another thing to speake of it since the Councell of Trent I graunt that before the Councell of Trent though in many things there was a difference betweene vs and them yet in most of greatest moment there was not the precise difference betweene vs as is now which happened partly because that the Church of Rome had not so strictly defined those tenents in any Councell before that time as it did then partly because though the