the Eucharist which Christ had bequeathed unto them then the Bohemians much affected with this ill dealing Assâ—mbled themselves together neere unto Thabor Castle and there to the number of thirtie thousand having three hundred tables erected in the fields for that purpose they received the Eucharist in both kinds PA. Master Brerely saith The Hussites rose up in armes and were seditious and Father Parsons saith That Zisca was a rebell against his king VVenceslaus PRO. The Reverend and laborius Deane of Exceter Master Sutcliffe saith That the crime of rebellion is rather to be imputed to the Romish Clergie and their adherents For Subinco the Archbishop of Prague stirred up Sigismund against the king as Sylvius testifieth Hist. Bohem. c. 35. And that king was taken prisoner first by his Barons next by his brother Sigismund as is testified in the same Historie c. 34. Whereas the warres of Ziscay were rather against strangers than others and hapned after the Coâ—ncel of Constance and the kings death And againe Being forced by the perâ—idiousnesse of the Pope and his complices he tooke armes for his owne necessarie dâ—fence and the protection of the innocent so that he dâ—fended his poore countreymen against the invasion of strangers And thus farre master Surcliffe And so I come to speake of such other worthies as God raised up in this Age whose Testimonies we shall have occasion to produce as namâ—ly Peter de Alliacâ— Cardinal of Cambrey Iohn Gâ—rson Chaâ—cellour of Paris Paulus Burgensis Alphonsus Tostatus Bishop of Avila Thomas Walden the Englishman Nicholas Clemangtes Archdeacon of Bayeux in France Dionysâ—us Carthusianus Cardinal Bessarion Cardinal Cusanus Trithâ—mâ—us Abbot of Spanheim Wesselus Preacher at Wormes Hierome Savonarola a Dominican of Florence Gabriel Biel Iohn and Francis Picus Earles of Mirandula Laurentius Valla a Patrâ—cian or Senatour at Rome Baptista Mantuan the Poet and Historian Iohn Gerson was a good man and one that much desired the Reformation of things amisse he was present at the Councel of Constance and for speaking freely therein agâ—inst the Disorders of the Romane Church he was deprived of his goods and dignities by the Pope and expulsed the Vniversitie by thâ— Sorhonists it is recorded of him that being thus deprived of his goods and dignities he beâ—ooke himselfe to teaching of Schoole wherein his manner was daily to cause all his Schollers â—he little children to joyne with him in this short Prayâ—r My God my maker have mercie upon thy miserâ—blâ— servant Gerson Iohn de Serres in his Inventory of France in the life of Charles the seaventh saith that Gersâ—n retuâ—ning from Basil died for griefe at Lyons and in the third part of Gersons workes I find this Epitaph made on him aemula turba fugat Ast hunc dum fugeret fovit Germania felix Fit tibi Lugdunum posterior requies That is The envious multitude doe make him â—ly But flying he finds râ—st in Germany And after this at Lyons Touching the power of the Pope in disposing the affaires of Princes and their States Gerson saiâ—h it was given unto him by such as flattered him and told him That as there is no power but of God so there is none whether Temporall or Ecclesiasticall Imperiall or Regall but from the Pope in whose thigh Christ hath written King of Kings and Lord of Lords of whose Power to dispute is Sacrilegious boldnesse to whom no man may say Sir why doe you so though he alâ—er overturne waste and confound all States Let me be judged a lyar saith he if these things be not found written by them that seeme wise in their owne eyes and if some Popes have not given credit to such lying and flattering words yea he saith That in imitation of Lucifer they will be adored and worshipped as gods not enduring whatsoever they doe that any one should aske them why they doe so they neither feare God nor reverence men Gerson denied the infallibilitie of the Popes judgement and taught That he was subject to errour and that in case of errour or other scandalous misdemeanour he may be judicially deposed and to this purpose hee wrote a treatise De auferibilitate Papae That the Pope might be safely taken away from the Church and yet no danger follow of it Gerson sheweth that all sinnes Even they that seeme least and lightest are by nature mortall Touching Indulgences or pardons whether the power of the Keyes extend onâ—ly to such as are on earth or to them also that are in Purgatorie the opinions of men saith Gerson are contrarie and uncertaine but howsoever this hee pronounceth confidently That onely Christ can give such Pardons for thousands of dayes and yeeres as many Popes assume to thâ—mselves power to grant So that in Gersons time it was not resolved whether the power of the Keyes extended onely to such as are on earth or to them also that are in Purgatorie yet hee sayth it might bee favourably construed that they reached to them in Puâ—gatorie at least Indirâ—ctly Concerning their Priests and Votaries hee saith That their Cels and Nunneries were like Brothel-houses and common stewes Gerson seeing there was small hope of reformation by a Generall Councell wisheth that severall kingdomes and Provinces would reforme and redresse things amisse and accordingly the severall parts of Christendome in the West as the Churches of England Scotland France and Germany have made reformation PA Gerson was present at the Councell of Constance and there preached against the Articles of Wickliffe and the Bohemians if Wickliffe make for you Gerson doth not for Gerson condemned Wickliffes opinions PRO. Gerson preached against such Articles as Were brought to the Councell of Constance by the English and Bohemians now those Articles were many of them impious in such sort as they were proposed by them that brought them as that God must obey the dâ—vill that Kings or Bishops if they fall into mortall sinne cease to be Kings or Bishops any longer and that all they doe is meerely void Whereas Wickliffe never delivered any such thing nor had any such impious conceiâ— as they sought to fasten on him neither is it to be marvelled at that impious things were falsely and slaunderously imputed to him seeing wee are wronged in like sort at this day For Campian is not ashamed to write That wee hold God to be the Author of sin and that all sinnes are equall in Gods sight and Bristow saith That Protestants are bound to avoid all good workes which tenets wee utterly disclaime and detest and many things no doubt were writâ—en by Wickliffe and Husse and others in a good and godly sense which as they are wrested by their adversaries were hereticall and damnable So then Gerson might condemâ—e as impâ—ous sâ—me posiâ—ions falsely imputed to Wickliffe not knowing but that they were his and dislike other that indeed were his as not delivered in such sort and such forme
and driven out as an Hereticke Gerson howsoever he thought that the Church might lawfully prescribe the communicating in one kind alone wherein we cannot excuse him yet hee acknowledgeth That the Communion in both kinds was anciently used The Councel of Basil permitted the Bohemians to continue the use of the Communion in both kinds upon condition That they should not find fault with the contrary use nor sever themselves from the Catholicke Church Iacobellus Misvensis a Preacher of Prague being admonished by Petrus Dresdensis after he had searched into the writings of the ancient Doctors and by name Dionysius and Saint Cyprian and finding in them the communicating of the Cup to the Laity commanded hee thenceforth exhorted the people by no meanes to neglect or omit the receiving the Communion of the Cup. Cardinal Bessarion Bishop of Tusculum professeth in expresse termes Wee reade onely of two Sacraments which were plainely delivered in the Gospel Of the Eucharist Waldensis saith That some supposed the Conversion that is in the Sacrament to be in that the bread and wine are assumed into the unitie of Christs person some thought it to be by way of Impanation and some by way of Figurative and Tropical appellation The first and second of those opinions found the better entertainement in some mens mindes because they grant the essentiall preseâ—ce of Christs body and yet deny not the presence of the bread still remaining to sustaine the appearing Accidents These opinions he reports to have beene very acceptable to many not without sighes wishing the Church had Decreed That men should follow one of them Whereupon Iohn Paris writeth That this way of Impanation so pleased Guido the Carmelite sometime Reader of the Holy Palace that he professed if hee had beene Pope he would have prescribed and commanded the embracing of it Petrus de Alliaco the Cardinal professâ—th that for ought he can see the substantiall Conversion of the Sacramental elements into the body and bloud of Christ cannot be proved either out of scripture or any determination of the universal Church maketh it but a matter of opinion inclining rather to the other opinion of Consubstantiation His words are these That manner or meaning which supposeth the substance of bread to remaine still is possible neither is it contrary to reason or to the authoritie of the Scriptures nay it is more easie and more reasonaâ—ble to conceive than that which sayes the Substance doth leave the Accidents And of this opinion no inconvenience doth seeme to ensue if it could accord with the Churches determination And hee addes That the opinion which holdeth the substance of bread to remaine doth not â—vidently follow of the Scripture nor in his seeming of the Churches determination Biel saith It is not expressed in the Canon of the Bible how the body of Christ is in the Sacrament and hereof anciently there have beene divers opinions Cajetaâ— saith that secluding the Churches authoritie there is no written word of God sufficient to enforce a Christian to receive this doctrine of Transubstantiation Saurez the Iesuit ingeniously professeth that Cardinal Cajetan in his Commentâ—rie upon this Article did aâ—â—irme that those words of Christ. This is my Body doe not of themselves sufficiently prove Transubstantiation without the Churches authoritie and therefore by the Commandment of Pius Quintus that part of his Commentarie is left out in the Roman Edition By this it appeares that their learned Councel of Schoolemen who lived in this Age were not fully agreed upon the poynt Of Images and Prayer to Saints Abulensis was so farre from allowing the worship of Images as that he held it a thing unlawfull in it selfe Deut. 4.16 secluding Adoration to make any visible Image or representation of God according to his deâ—ty for hence saith hee these two inconveniences will follow First The Perill of Idolaâ—rie in case the Image it selfe should come to be adored and Secondly Errour and Heresie whiles one shall asâ—ribe to God such bodily shapes and formes as the Trinity â—s usually pictured withall Now that Abulensis with othâ—rs held it unlawfull to picture or represâ—nt the Trinâ—tie is acknowledged by Bellarmine saying It is Calvins opinion in the first booke of his Institutions cap 11. that it is an abhominable sinne to make a â—â—sible and bodâ—ly Image of the invisible and incorporeall God and this opinion of Calvins is also the opinion of some Catholicke Doctors as Abulensiâ— upon 4. Deut. quest 5. and Durand upon 3. dist 9. qu. 2. and Peresius in his booke of â—raditions Gerson condemned all mâ—king of an Image or portraiture appointed or accommodaâ—ed to worship and aadorationâ— saying Thou shalt â—ot adore thâ—m nor worship them which are thus to bâ— distinguished Thou shalt not adore them that is With any bodily reverence or bowing or kneeling to them Thou shalt not worship them with any devotion of mind Images therefore are prohibited to bee either adored or Worshipped The same Gerson disliked the varietie of pictures and Images in Churches occasioning Idolatry in the simple If Christians were in no peâ—ill of Idolatry by worshipping Images why doth Gerson complaineâ— that Superstition had infected Christian Religion anâ— that people like Iewesâ— did onely sâ—eke after Signes and yeeld Divine honour to Images Cassander writeth in this manner The opinion of Thomas Aquinas who holdeth that Images are to be woâ—shipped as their Samplers is disliked by soundâ—r Scâ—oolemen amongst whom is Durand Holcot and Gabriel â—iel Biel reporteth the opinion of them which say that an Image neither as it is considered in it selfe materâ—ally nor yâ—t according to the nature of a Signe or Image is to bee worshipped And he saith well that this opinion of Thomas was disliked of others for besides those already mentioned this was one of the Problems which Picus Mirandula proposed to be maintained by him at Rome namely that Neither the Crosse nor any other Image was to be worshipped with Latria or Divine worship no not in that sense as Thomas would have it And when otheâ—s carped at this and other his Assertions touching â—he Sacrament of the Eucharist himselfe made his owne Apologie and defence Touching Invocation of Saints though Gerson did not absolutely condemne it yet hee reprehendeth the abuses and sâ—persâ—iâ—ious observations then prevailing in the worshiâ—ping of Sâ—ints veâ—y bitterly For in his Consolatoâ—y tract of Rectifying the Heart amongst many oâ—her considâ—rations he complaineth That â—hâ—re is incollerable â—uperstitioÌ„ in the worshipping of Saints innumerable observations without all ground of reason vaine credulitie in beleeving things concerning the Saints reported in the uncertaine Legends of their lives superstitious opinions of obtaining Pardon and remission of sinnes by saying so many Pater nosters in such a Church before such an Image as if in the Scriptures and Authenticall writings of holy men there were not sufficient direction for all
could at the samâ— time dictate unto seven severall Clarkes or Notaries hee was of such esteeme that divers would say Malle se cum Origene errare quà m cum alijs verâ— sentire that they had rather erre with Origen than thinke aright with others hee exhorted others to Martyrdome and from his child-hood was himselfe desirous of the honour thereof but in the seventh persecution under Decius hee fainted and his heart was so overset with feare to have his chaste body defiled with an ugly Ethiopian that hee chose rather to offer incense to the Idoll then to bee so filthily abused for this cause hee was excommunicated by the Church of Alexandria and for very shame fled to Iudea wherâ— he was not only gladly received but also requested publikely to preach at Hierusalem But so it was falling upon that place of the Psalmist Vnto the ungodly saith God why doest thou preach my Lawes and takest my Covenant in thy mouth whereas thou hatest to bee reformed and hast cast my words behind thee Psalm 50.16.17 These woâ—ds so deepely wounded his heart with griefe that hee closed the booke and sate downe and wept and all the congregation wept with him In expounding the Scriptures hee was curious in searching out of Allegories and yet falling on that place Math. 19.12 Some have gelded themselves for the kingdome of heaven hee tooke those words literally and gelded himselfe to the end hee might live without all suspition of uncleannesse whereas hee expounded almost all the rest of the Scriptures figuratively Hee held a fond opinion concerning the paines of devils and wicked men after long torments to bee finished It is usually said of him Vbi bene scripsit nemâ— melius ubi malè nemo pejus where hee wrote wellâ— nâ—ne better so that wee may say of him as Ieremy of his figs the good none better the evill nonâ— worse Ier. 24.2 Cypriaâ—â— was a learned godly Bishop and glorious Martyr he erred indeed in that he would have had such as had beene baptized by Heretikes if afterwards they returned to the true Church to bee rebaptized yet he was not obstinate in his errour hee was as Aâ—stin saith of him not onely learned but docible and willing to bee learned and that hee would most easily have altered his opinion had this question in his life time beene debated by such learned and holy men as afterwards it was so that S. Austin makes this observation touching Cyprians errour hee therefore saw not this one truth touching Rebaptization that others might see in him a more eminent and excellent truth to wit his humilitie modestie and châ—ritie Of the Scriptures sufficiencie and Canon Tertullian though hee stood for Ceremoniall traditions unwritten and for Doctrinall traditions which were first delivered from the Apostles by word of mouth and afterwards committed to writing yet dealing with Hermogenes the Hereticke in a question concerning the faith whether all things at the beginning were made of nothing presseth him with an Argument ab Authoritate negativè Whether all things were made of any subject matter I have as yet read no where saith hee Let those of Hermogenes his shop shew that it is written if it bee not written let them feare that wâ—e which is allotted to such as adde or take away but for himselfe hee professeth that hee adoreth the fulnesse of the Scripture And why may not wee also argue negatively touching divers Tenets of Poperie that from the beginning it was not so Math. 19.8 In the two Testaments saith Origen eveâ—y word that appertaineth to God may bee required and discussed and all knowledge of things out of them may be understood but if any thing doe remaine which the holy Scripture doth not determine no other third Scripture ought to be received for to authorize any knowlâ—dge Origen in his exposition upon the first Psalme faith wâ—e may not bee ignorant there are two and twenty bookes of the old Testament after the Hebrewes which is the number of the Letters among them This is likewise witnessed by Eusebius that as Origen received the Canon of the Iewes so likewise he reiected those sixe bookes which wee terme Apocriphall with the Iewes Of Communion under both and the number of Sacraments Tertullian speaking in generall of Christians saith the flesh feedeth upon the body and blood of Christ that the soule may be fatâ—ed as it were of God hee speakes of the body and blood of Christ as distinct things saying Corpore sanguine and elsewhere he mentions the Cup given to a Lay-woman saying from whose hands shall shee desire the Sacramentall Bread of whose Cup shall shee participate hee speaketh of a Christian woman married to an Infidell and sheweth the inconvenience of such a match whereby the faithfull wife was like to bee debarred of the comfort of receiving the Sacrament and drinking of the Lords Cup. Origen maketh this question What people is it that is accustomed to drinke blood and hee answereth the faithfull people Hereunto Bellarmine saiâ—h the people did drinke but they had no commâ—nd so to doe where hee grants us that communicating under both kinds was the Agend or Church practise in this age besides Origen in this very place alleadgeth Christs praecept for the Cup out of the sixt of Iohn Cyprian speaking of such as in time of persâ—cution had lapsed and not stucke to the truth and therâ—upon were barred from the Communion hee desires that upon their repentance they may bee admitted and hee gives this reason How shall wee sit them for the Cup of Martyrdome if before wee admit them not by right of Communion to drinke of the Lords cup in the Church And againe Because some men out of ignorance or simplicity in Sanctifying the Cup of the Lord and ministring it to the people doe not that which Iesus Christ our Lord and God the Authour and Institutour of this Sacrifice did and taught Where albeit the maine scope of the Epistle bee to prove the necessity of administring the Sacrament in Wine and not in meere water as the Aquarij did yet on the bye he discovers the practice of the Church for both kinds and saith expressely that the Cup was ministred or delivered to the people Tertullian in divers places of his works acknowledgeth the same Sacraments with us to wit Baptisme and the Lords Supper and Beatus Rhenanus in his notes upon Tertullian observes the same and for this hee is brought under the Spanish inquisition and roughly entertained for his paines as appeares by a Censure passed on him and extant in the latter end of Tertullians Works Of the Eucharist Tertullian disputing against Marcion who denied that Christ had a true Body confuteth him by a reason drawne from the Sacrament of the Supper in this manner A Figure of a Body presupposeth a true Body for of a shew or phantasie there can be no Figure But
God would receive our prayers Thus he in his mystagogicall Catechismes Answer The learned doe thinke that Cyril of Hierusalem was not Author thereof but one Iohn Bishop of Hierusalem who lived about the yeare 767 a great advocate of Images and indeed it may seeme so by some idle stuffe we find in them as namely where it is said That the wood of the Crosse did increase and multiply in such sort that the earth was full thereof But be it Cyrils of Hierusalem it makes not for the Romists All he saith is this in effect he supposeth that those holy ones with God doe continually pray unto God which prayers he desires God would mercifully heare and grant unto them for the good of his servants here on earth Lastly he sayth mentionem facimus and so did the ancients in their Commemorations mention the Godly Saints deceased and yet without any direct invoking of them And so Saint Austin saith That the Martyrs were named at the Communion Table but yet not invocated by the Priest Saint Austin flatly opposeth invocantur to nominantur nominantur sed non invocantur so that they might be nominated and mentioned as Cyril speakes and yet not at all invocated Objection Saint Hilary saith that by reason of our infirmitie we stand in need of the intercession of Angels and the like he hath upon the 124 Psalme Answer Hilary speakes onely of Angelicall intercession not a word touching invocation or intercession of Saints And if any intercession be intended it is that in generall for the whole Church In the other place upon the 124 Psalme Hilary speaks neither of Saints praying for us nor of praying to them but sayth That the Church hath no small ayde in the Apostles Prophets and Patriarkes or rather in the Angels which hedge and compasse the Church round about with a certaine guard the ayde therefore he meaneth is the example and doctrine of the Saints departed and the ministerie of the Angels Objection The Emperour Theodosius went in Procession with his Clergy and Laity to the Oratories and Chappels and lying prostrate before the Shrines and Monuments of the Apostles and Martyrs he required ayde to himselfe by the faithfull intercession of the Saints Answer The Emperour did not invocate any Saint or Saints at all onely upon that exigent of the rebellion of Eugenius and his complices he repayres to the Shrines and Chappels of the Apostles Martyrs and other holy Saints there he made his prayers unto God in Christ not unto them desiring God to ayde him against his enemies and the rather upon the prayers and intercession of the Saints on his behalfe now invocation followes not presently upon intercession Reply Sozomen telleth us that the Emperour before he joyned battaile he earnestly intreated to be assisted by Saint Iohn Baptist. Rejoynder The learned Bishop Bishop Mountague answereth that the credit of this story may â—e questioned for Socrates and Thâ—odoret elder than Sozomen have it not and Sozomen himselfe hath no greater warrant for iâ— then heaâ—e say 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the report is but who the Author was whaâ— credit it was of is not related But supposing the truth of the story Ruffinus hath the very forme of the Prayer which the Emperour made and there is no mention therein of invocating either Saint or Angâ—l Socrates saith that the Emperor implored Gods assistance and had his desire Theodoret saith that the Eâ—perour prayed to God so that the Emperour had repayre unto God alone without any mediation at all I have consulted with the Originall and there indeed I find that the Emperour being in Saint Iohn Baptist's Church which Theodosius himsâ—lfe had built He called to have Saint Iohn Baptist's assistance in the battaile he did not directly call upon S. Iohn Baptist but he called upon God that he would appoint the Baptist for to aâ—d him But be it that he called upon the Baptist indeed yet this was done in the second place after he had first immediatly called upon God himsâ—lfe Objection Athanasius in his Sermon upon the Annunciation of blessâ—d Virgin sayth to the Virgin Mary Incline thine cares to our prayers and forget not thy people Answer Indeed this speakes home but it is not the true Athanâ—sius but some counterfeits bearing his name and this is confessed by the two Arch pillars of Poperie Bellarmine and Baronius for howsoever Bellarmine to make up his number produce Athanâ—sius for proofe of Saintly invocation yet the same Bâ—llarmine when he is out of the heat of his controversies and is not tied to maintaine â—he invocation of Saints but treateth of other matters then in his Catalogue of Ecclesiasticall wriâ—ers he is of another judgement and saith that this Sermon of Athanasius of the Annunciation of the blessed Virgin seemeth not to be Athanasiusses but some later writeâ—s who lived afâ—er the sixâ—h generall Councel Baronius also is of the same judgement and indeed he that shall consider and wâ—iâ—h what the true Athanasius writes to wit That God onely is to be worshipped that the creature is not to fall downe and worship or supplicate the creature nor to make the Saints being but creatures no creators speciall helpers and opitulators he I say that shall duely weigh these things will easily conceive when he reads this Sermon of the Annunciation that either Athanasius was not constant to his own doctrine which is not to bee imagined or that this Homily alleadged is none of the true Athanasiusses it is so farre different from his other doctrine Objection Bellarmine for proofe of Saintly invocation alleadgeth a place out of Eusebius the testimonie speaketh thus as there it standeth reported out of the thirteenth Booke and seaventh Chapter of his Evangelicall Preparation This we daily doe we honour those heavenly Souldiers as Gods friends we approach unto their Monuments and pray unto them as unto Holy men by whose intercession we professe our selves to be much holpâ—n Answer Eusebius speakes not of particular invocation for particular intercession but of generall mediation of the Saints in heaveÌ„ who pray for Saints on earth in general according to the nature of Communion of Saints without any intercession used to theÌ„ or invocation of them by that other moity of the Church Militant oâ— earth Secondly Eusebiuâ— doth not enlarge his speech to all the Saints departed but unto Martyrs onely whom he calleâ—h Heavenly Souldiers Now the case of Martyrs and other Saints is not equall for in the opinion of the Ancients that of Martyrs was faâ—re above all other depaâ—ted with God as enjoying moâ—e priviledge from God with Christ in glory by some specially enlarged dispensation than they the other holy Saints did as Saint Augustine teacheth 3. Thirdly the place alleadged is taken out of a corrupt translation made by Trapezuntius and afterwards followed by Dadroeus a Doctour of Paris
Pulpit before the weaker the truth whereof he is not able to justifie in the Schooles before the best learned Neither weâ—e they whom Chrysostome taxed so very lazâ—e but rather such as tooke more paines than needed and as hee saith went a long way about by seâ—king to their patrons mediatours and favourites whereas hee shewes them a neerer may to wit to goe immediately to the Master of Requests Christ Iesus Objection You have produced diverse Fathers against Saintly invocation and much pressed Saint Chrysostome's testimony whereas hee makes for us for Chrysostâ—me saith that the Emperour laying aside all princely state stood humbly praying unto the Saints to bee intercessours for him unto God Answer Bellarmine indeed alleadgeth Chrysostome's sixty sixt Homily Antiochenumâ— and yet the same Bellarmine upon better advise when he is out of the heat of his polemick controversies comes to a pacifick Treatise of the Writings of the Fathers then hee tells us that Chrysostome made but one and twenty Homilies to the people of Antioch and that no more are to bee found in the ancient Libraries And yet posito sed non concesso admit that these words were Châ—ysostome's indeed yet they reach not home for they speake onely what the Emperour did factoâ— not dâ— jure it is onely a relation what hee did out of his private devotion it is no approbation of the thing done Now what some one or two shall doe carryed away with their owne devout affection is not straight way a rule of the Church Besides though the Saints interceded for us yet it will not hence follow that wee are to invocate them having no warrant from God so to doe now in such a high poynt of his worship wee must keepe us to his command and that must guide ouâ— devotiâ—n The other places of Chrysoâ—tome alleadged by Bâ—llarmine speake of the Saints living and not of the Saints deceased Lastly Chrysostome as hath beene observed in the poynt of the Eâ—chaâ—ist speakâ—s oftentimes rather out of his rhetorickâ— than out of his divinity Sixtus Senensis delivereth this observation concerning the Fathers and hee names Chrysostome That in their sermons we may not take their words strictâ—y and in rigour because they many times breake out into declamations and declare and repeat matters by Hyperboles and other figurative speeches In a word whatsoever Chrysostome report of others himselfe as wee have heard was all for our immediate addresse of our Prayers unto God Objection Bellarmine saith that Theodoret shutteth up the story of the Fatherâ— lives in these termes My suit and request is that by the Prayers and intercession of the Saints I may finde divine assistance And the same Bellarmine saith that Theodoret in his booke of the Greekes hath much touching Prayer to Saints Answer Theodoret saith onely Rogo quaeso I beseech and intreat not thâ—s nor that Saâ—nt but God alone to this end and purpâ—se that by their intercession and prayers I may have assiâ—â—ance Now to the booke de curandis Graecorum affectibus questioned whether iâ— be Theodoret's or no wee oppose that which is Theodoret's out of question upon the second and third Chapters to the Colossians where hee expâ—essely sayes and that by the auâ—hority of the Councell of Laodicea Angels are not to be prayed to and if not Angels then not Saints and Maâ—tyrs Objection Saint Austine sayth It is injurie to pray for a Martyr by whose prayers we on the other side ought to be recommended Answer This place is not to the puâ—pose for he sayth onely that the Saints pray for us which thing we have never denyed We doe out of Godly consideâ—ations presume that albeit they know not the necessity of particular men yet they pray for the Church in generall But that wee should for this cause invocate them or yield them any religious service S. Austine doth not avouch The other testimonies alleadged by Bellaâ—mine out of Saint Austine are all for Martyrs and not for Saints now in Saint Austâ—nes opinion the Martyrs had an espâ—ciall priviledge above other Saints Bâ—sides they might well have spared the alleadging of Saint Austine Theodoret Chrysostome Prudentius Saint Ambrose Origen Irenaeus and otheâ—s in proofe of Saiâ—tly invocation inaâ—much as these with divers others are by their great Author Sixtus Senensis reckoned up amongst them that held the Saints departed did not injoy the presence of God â—ill after thâ— generall Resurrection which if they hâ—ld that they did not then would they not hold that they were to bee prayed to they being secluded from Gods presence being onely in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Some certaine Receptacles or Wards attending in the porch or base Court abroad not admâ—tted to the presence of the Almighty and so not seeingâ— hearing nor knowing whether prayer were made to them at all or no being but as yet in Atrijs as Bernard would have it For in such Retiring or drawing roomes they placed the soules of all the faithfull except those of the Martyrs Objection Maximus Taurinensis in his Sermon upon Saint Agnes sayth By all such Prayers and Orizons as I can conceive I beseech theâ— vouchsafe to remember me Answer Theâ—e Sermons of Maximus as great as he was in name they are not greatly to be esteemed inasmuch as they goe with an Aliâs sometimes under one name sometimes under another having indeâ—d no certaine knowne Father so that they are not to goe for Maximes in divinity or rules of Faith But suppose they be his owne words they are but a Rhetoricall flourish which he used in his commendatorie Panegyricall Sermon upon Saint Agnes her Anniversarie and he speakes but faintly Quibus possumus precibus in effect as I can so I direct this my addresse unto thee heare and helpe me accordingly as thou canst and maist so the man in the point was not so fully perswaded of that or any Saints assistance as that hee went farther than opinion Objection Victor Bishop of Vtica when the Church was pestered with the barbarous Vandals calleth to the Angels Prophets Patriarks and Apostles to Deprecate and Pray for the distressed Church Answer Victor Bishop of Vtica is an Historian and such are Narratores relaters of other mens Acts not Expositores of their owne opinions narrations have no more weight or worth then have those Authors from whence they proceed But Vicâ—or in this place laying aside the person of an Historian takes up the carriage of a Panegyrist meerely as appeares by his expostulating with Saint Peter and chiding him which was not really and indeed but onely Rhetorically and Figuratively saying Why art thou Blessed Saint Peter silent Why dost not thou above all the rest take care of the Sheepe and Lambes committed unto thee Now if this were a straine of Rhetoricke why also is not that his compellation of the Saints Triumphant to assist the Church Millitant and then distressed Object
Church as if Saint Peter whose successour he pretends to be had hâ—ld the Apostolike chayre as it weâ—e in Fee for him and his Successours for ever and the other eleven had held theiâ—s for terme of life onely And now to looke homâ—waâ—ds to our Britaine in this Age we find our auâ—cestors besides their common enemies the Scots Picts and Saxons troubled with another more secret but as dangerous to wiâ— the Pelagian heresie wherewith Pelagius a Romane Monke borne in Little Britaine with his Disciple Celestius beganne to infect these Northerne parts But after they and their heresies were condemned in the Councels of Carthage and Mela Pope Celestine sent Palladius into Scotland as also our neighbours the French bishops at the request of the Catholique English sâ—nt Germanus bishop of Aâ—xerre and Lupus bishop of Troys in Champeigne into England to beat downe Pelagianisme which they happily suppressed Now also there was a Provinciall Councel held in Britaine for the reforming of Religion and repairing of the ruin'd Churches which the Pagan marriage of Vortiger had decayed to the great griâ—fe of the people A plaine token that their zeale continued evâ—n unto those dayâ—s for so it was whiles Vortiger a British Prince marryed with the fayre but Infidel Rowena Hengists daughter this Saxon match had almost undone both Church and State whilest as Bede complaines Priest's were slaine standing at the Altar and bishops with thâ—ir flocks weâ—e murdered till at length they assembled a Councel to repayre those decayes which this marriage had made Now to close up this Age the Reader may observe that we have surveyed the first foure Generall Councels which Gregorie the Great proâ—essed that he â—mbraced as the foure Gospels and indeed they were called agâ—inst those foure Arch-heretickes that pestered the Câ—urch the first was hâ—ld at Nice against Arrius a Priâ—st of Alâ—xandria who held that Christ was neither God nor eternall but an excellent creature created before all creatures The second at Constantinople against Macedonius who held that Christ was not of the same essence not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 consubstantiall and of the same substance with the Father but onely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 like to him and that the Holy Ghost was not God but Gods Minister and a creature not eternall The third at Ephâ—suâ— against Nestorius who held that Christ had two severall persons but not two wills and that the Virgin Mary was not to be called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the mother of God but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Mother of Christ. The fourth at Chalcedon where Dioscorus and Eutyches were condemned This Eutyches confuting Nestorius fell into other heresies and confounded the two natures of Christ making him after his union to have but the divine nature onely Besides the Reader may farther observe that upon the survey of these first foure Generall Councells so much esteemed by S. Gregory it is found that they confined the bishop of Rome to his bounds with other Patriarkes and they equalled other Patriarchall Seas to the Romane so that hereby is discovered the vanity of Campian's flourish saying Generall Councells are all ours the first and the last and the middle For we imbrace such Generall Councells as were held in those golden Ages within the first sixe hundâ—ed yeares or thereabouts The middle ranke beginning at the second Nicene unto the Councell of Florence held in the Ages of the mingled and confused Church they are neither wholly theirs nor ours The two last the one at Lateran the other at Trâ—nt these being held by the drosse of the Church are theirs AN APPENDIX to the fiâ—th CENTVRIE Of the Fathers Authoritie PAPIST YOu have produced the Fathers for these five or sixe hundred yeares as if they had beene of your Faith whereas you dissent from thâ—m and refuse their tryall but wee honour them and appeale to the joynt coâ—sent of Anâ—iquity PROTESTANT Where wee seâ—me to vary from them it is eithâ—r in things humane arbitrarie and indifferent or in matters not fully discussed by the ancient or in poynts which were not delivered by joynt consent of the ancient or in things which are reproved by plaine demonstration of holy Scripture and wherein the Fathers permit liberty of dissenting and the Papists themsâ—lves usually take it Neither would Saint Austine the faiâ—est flower of Antiquity have his Reader follow him farther than hee followeth the Truth not denying but that as in his maners so in his writings many things might justly be taxed Neither doe we refuse the triall of the Fathers truely alleadged and rightly understood witnesse the challenge made by Bishop Iewell and seconded by Doctor Whitaker and Doctor Featly yea Doctor Whitaker as Scultetus observeth was confident That the Fathers although in some matters they be variable and partly theirs partly ours yet in the materiall poynts they be wholly ours and theirs in matters of lesser moment and some few Tenets Likewise that great light of Oxford Doctor Reinolds in his Conference with Master Hart solemnely protested that in his opinion not one of all the Fathers was a Papist for saith he The very being and essence of a Papist consists in the opinion of the Popes supremacie but the Popes supremacie was not allowed by any of the Fathers as he there proveth against Hart not one then of all the Fathers was a Papist PA. May wee not ground our Faith upon the Fathers Testimonies PRO. Wee reverence the ancient Fathers but still with reservation of the respect wee owe to that Ancient of dayes Daniel 7.6 their father and ours who taught young Elihu Iob. 32.6 to reprove his Ancients even holy Iob amongst them Iob 33.12 him alone doe we acknowledge for the father of our Faith on whom wee may safely ground in things that are to bee believed For every Article of Christian Faith must bee grounded on divine revelation but all opinions of the Fathers are not divine revelations neither doe the Fathers challenge to themselves infallibility of judgement Sâ—int Austine saith This reverence and honour have I learnt to give to those Bookes of Scripture onely which are called Canonicall that I most firmely believe none of their Authors could any whit erre in writing But others I so reade that with how great sanctity and learning soever they doe excell I therefore thinke not any thing to be true because they sâ— thought it but because they were able to perswade me either by those Canonicall Authours or by some probâ—ble reason that it did not swerve from truth Neither doe our Adversaries yield infâ—llibilâ—ty of judgement tâ— the Fathers Baronius saith The Church doth not alwayes and in all things follow the Fathers interpretation of Scripture Bellarmine saith Their writings are no rules of Faith neither have they authority to binde Canus tells us That the ancient Fathers sometime erre and against the ordinary course of nature bring forth
Ancients used the word Merit and so also they used the termes Indulgences Satisfaction Sacrifice aâ—d Penance but quite in another sense then the later Romanists doe the Fathers who use it tooke up the word as they found it in ordinary use and custome with men in those times not for to deserve which in our language implyeth Merit of condignity but to incurre to attaine impetrate obtaine and procure without any relation at all to the dignity either of the person or the worke thus Saint Bernard concerning children promoted to the Prelacie saith They were more glad they had escaped the rod than that they had merited that is obtayned the prâ—ferment Saint Augustine saith that hee and his fellowes for their good doings at the hands of the Dâ—natists In steed of thankes merited that is incurred the flames of hatred on the other side the same Fatheâ— affirmeth That Saint Paul for his persecutions and blasphemies merited that is found grace to bee named a vessell of election Saint Gregory hath a straine concerning the sinne of Adam which is sung in the Church of Rome at the blessing of the Taper O happy sinne that merited that is Found the favour to have such and so great a Redeemer In like sort by merits they did ordinarily signifie workes as appeares by that of Saint Bernard saying The merits of men are not such that for them eternall life should bee due of right for all merits are Gods gifts Neither did the ancient Church hold merit of Condignitie but resolved according to that of Leo The measure of celestiall gifts depends not upon the qualitie of works they were not of the Rhemists opinion That good works are meritorious and the very cause of salvation so farre that God should be unjust if he rendred not heaven for the same They were not so farre Iesuited as with Vasquez to hold that The good works of just persons are of themselves without any covenant and acceptation worthy of the reward of eternall life and have an equall value of condignitie to the obtaining of eternall glorie PA. You cannot denie but that prayer for the dead is ancient PRO. The manner now used is not ancient for they that of old prayed for the dead had not any reference to Purgatorie as Popish prayers are now adayes made It is true indeed that anciently they used Commemorations of the defunct neither mislike wee their manner of naming the deceased at the holy table in this sort they used a Commemoration of the Patriarks Prophets Apostles Evangelists Martyrs and Confessours yea of Mary the mother of our Lord to whom it cannot be conceived that by prayer they did wish their deliverance out of Purgatorie sith no man ever thought tâ—em to be there but if they wished any thing it was the deliverance from the power of death which as yet tyrannized over one part of them the hastning of their resurâ—ection as also a joyful publike acquitall of them in that great day wherein they shall stand to bee judged before the judge of the quicke and dead that so having fully escaped from all the consequences of sin the last enemie being then destroyed and death swallowed up in victorie they might obtaine a perfect consummation and blisse both in body and soule according to the forme of our Churches Liturgie In the Commemoration of the faithfull departed retained as yet in the Romane missall there is used this Orizon O Lord grant unto them eternall rest and let everlasting light shine unto them and againe This oblation which we humbly offer unto thee for the Commemoration of the soules that sleepe in peace we beseech thee O Lord receive graciouslie and it is usuall in the Ambrosian and Gregorian Office and in the Romane missall to put in their Memento the names of such as sleepe in the sleepe of Peace omnium pausantium and to entreate for the spirits of those that are at rest Remember O Lord thy servants and hand maides which have gone before us with the Ensigne of Faith and sleepe in the sleepe of Peace now by Pausantium Pamelius understands such as sleepe and rest in the Lord. Where we may observe that the soules unto which Everlasting blisse was wished for were yet acknowledged to rest in Peace and consequently not to be disquieted with any Purgatorie torment So that the thing which the Church anciently aymed at in her supplications for the dead was not to ease or release the soules out of Purgatorie but that the whole man not the soule separated onely might find mercie of the Lord in that day as sometime Saint Paul prayed for Onesiphorus even whiles Onesiphorus was yet alive Besides they desired a joyfull Resurrection as appeares by severall passages and Liturgies by the Aegyptian Liturgie attributed to Cyril Bishop of Alexandria where we find this Orizon Raise up their bodies in the day which thou hast appointed according to thy promises which are true and cannot lye And that of Saint Ambrose for Gratian and Valentinian the Emperours I doe beseech thee most high God that thou wouldst raise up againe those deere young men with a speedie resurrection that thou mayst recompence this untimely course of this present life with a timely resurrection As also in Grimoldus his Sacramentarie Almighty and everlasting God vouchsafe to place the body and the soule and the spirit of thy servant N. in the bosomes of Abraham Isaac and Iacob that when the day of thine acknowledgement shall come thou mayst command them to be raised up among thy Saints and thine Elect. The like is found in the Agend of the dead already mentioned PA. Invocation of Saints was anciently used PRO. I answer that though in respect of later times Prayer to Saints and some other of our adversaries Tenets may seeme ancient and gray-headed yet in respect of the first three or foure hundred yeares next after Christ they are not of that ancient standing now the true triall of antiquitie is to be takâ—n from the first and purest agâ—s for as Tertullian telleth us That is most true which is most ancient that most ancient which was from the beginning that from the beginning which froÌ„ the Apostles so that which at fiâ—st was delivered to the Saints is truest and the good seed was first sowne and after that came the tares Besides what though some poynts in Poperie were of a thousand yeareâ— standing it is not time that can make a lye to be truth antiquitie without truth is but antiquitas erroris an ancient errour and there is no pâ—aescripâ—ion of time can hold plea against God and his truth Neither yet can you prescribe for divers Tenetâ—â— Scotus that was termed the Subtile Doctor telleth us that before the Councel of Lateran which was not till the yeare 1215 Transubstantiation was not believed as a poynt of Faith This did Bellarmine observe as
a thing remarkable in Scotus although he doth not approve the same Cassander saith It is sufficiently manifest that the Vniversall Church of Christ untill this day and the Westerne or Romane Church for more then a thousand yeares aftâ—r Christ did exhibit the Sacrament in both kinds to all the members of Christs Church at least in publike as it is most evident by innumerable testimonies both of Greeke and Latine Fathers So that the barring of the Lay-people of the Cup came not into the Church by any publike decree till the Councel of Constance which was held in the yeare 1414 some two hundred yeares agoe Fisher Bishop of Rochester saith that of Purgatorie there is very little or no mention amongst the ancient and that the Grecians doe not believe it to this day In like sort their Latine service which Pope Vitalian brought in is not of Primitive antiquitie for it was not generally put upon the Church until the yeare 666. which is the number of the name of the beast mentioned in the Apocalypse Revel 13.18 and found out by Irenaeus to arise out of the numerall letters of the word Lateinos now this name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wel suites with the Pope whose Faith and Church is the Romish or Latine Church and his publike Service in Latine and his translation of Scripture in Latine Now touching prayer to Saints It is true that such as had lapsed and fallen in time of persecution were wont to implore the prayers of Maâ—tyrs and Confessours imprisoned for the Gospel that by their interceding for thâ—m they might procure some ease or relaxation of such canonicall censures as were enjoyned them by the Church Cyprian was of opinion that the Saints aftâ—r death remembred theiâ— old friends here as having takâ—n fresh and particular notice of their severall states votes and necessities and hence grew that compact betwixt Cyprian and Cornelius that whether of them went to heaven before the other he should pray for his surviving friend Now this soliciting of Martyrs before their deaths brought in the next Age a custome to call upon them after their deaths yet so as they did not directly invote them For so it was for the better preservation of the memory of Saints and Martyrs they had their Commemoration dayes and were wont to meet at the Tombes and Monuments of Martyrs where they kept their anniversary and yearely solemnities and made speeches in their praise and commendations and in these their orations they spoke to the deceased as if they had beene living and present there but these were onely straines of rhetoricke Figures and Apostrophee's rather Declamationes rhetorum flowers of rhetoricke than Definitiones Theologorum decisions of Divines In this kind Gregorie Nazianzene saith Heare O thou soule of great Conâ—â—antius if thou hast any understanding of these things and as many soules of the Kings before him as loved Christ. The like he hath in his funerall oration which he made upon his Sister Gorgonia where he speakes thus unto her If thou hast any care of the things done by us and holy soules receive this honour from God that they have any feeling of such things as these receive this oration of ours in stead of many and before many funerall obsequies He speakes doubtfully and faintly If thou hast any sense or apprehension hereof and if you be affected with these things it seemeth hee thought that the defunct had not ordinarily notice of things done on earth neither will it serve to say as Bellarmine doth that Si is not dubitantis but affirmantis not a terme of doubting but of asseveration as that of Saint Paul If thou count me therefore a partner receive him as my selfe For there is no man but if he reade these places unpartially Heare if there be any sense and Heare if God grant it as a priviledge to soules deceased to have sense of these things but he will conceive that Si is not put for For or quoniam or as a note of affirming but as a note of doubt at least in the parties that spake it Hitherto the Saints were rather Vocati called unto as comprecants to joyne their prayers with the living than Invocati Directly called upon or prayed unto yet in processe of time the prayers made to God to heare the Intercessions of the Saints were changed into prayers to the Saints to heare our intercessions themselves For wee deny not but that among the ancient writers there are some places found which speake of the Intercession of the Saints there are also wishes found that were made by living men that the Saints would pray for them but this is not the difference betwixt us whether the Saints pray for us but whether wee must pray unto and call upon them for wee grant that the Saints in heaven doe pray for Saints on earth in generall according to the nature of communion of Saints but their intercession for us in generall will not inferre our invocation of them in particular There are also in ancient Writers pâ—rticular examples to bee found of some that ouâ— of their owne private devotion have called upon Saints but thiâ— cannot raise up a tenet in Religion to bind the Church either for doctrine or practice for what one or two shall doe carried away with their owne devout affection having zeale hap'ly not according to knowledge is not straight way a Ruâ—e of the Church nor one of the Churches Agends The thing wee stand upon is this that there were not any Collects nor set formes nor any diâ—ect Invocation of Saints put into the Common-service and publicke Liturgie of the Westerne Church untill the dayes of Gregory the Great or there abouts sixe hundred yeares after Christ so that their Saint-invocation is not so ancient as they would beare the world in hand In a word there is much difference betweene the ancients and moderne Romists herein for in the compellations which the ancients used they pleaded onely Christs merits making the Saints high in Gods favour competitioners to the throne of grace with the Saints living on earth but not content herewith the Schooles afterwards held meritorious Invocation of Saints wherein the Saints owne merits were brought in and pleaded Wee pray unto the Saints saith the Master of the Sentences That they may intercede for us that is to say That their merits may helpe us and Biel speakes to the same effect THE SIXTH CENTVRIE From the yeare of Grace 500. to 600. PAPIST WWhat say you of this sixth age PROTESTANT Quod dies â—egat dies dabit what one age affords not another doth and dies dedit I trust wee have got the day in the two last justly stiled the learned Ages The Reader is not now in the close of the first 600 yeares to expect so full and frequent Testimonies as formerly such as wee find wee produce For God hath not left himselfe without witnesse Of
examining them The like may be sayd of Bede Gregorie and others that holding Christ the foundation a right and groaning under the weight of mens Traditions humane satisfactions and the like popish trash they by unfained repentaÌ„ce for their errours lapses knowne and unknowne and by an assured faith in their Saviour did finde favour with the Lord these and the like we hold to be Gods servants and propter meliorem saniorem partem by reason of their better and sounder part to be with us lively members of the true Church though in some things they were mistaken and that they may be termed professours of our faith inasmuch as the denomination is to be taken from the better part and not alwayes from the greater For example sake there is much water and little wine mixed in a glasse yet it is called a glasse of wine so say we of professors S. Bernard and such like there is in them some bad parts some superstition and Poperie and some good in that they hold Christ Iesus the foundation aright in this case they may in respect of their better part be termed and denominated true professors and therefore you must give us againe Saint Bernard with others to whoÌ„ you have no right or claime unlesse it be to their errours which they suckt in from the corrupt breasts of some of your side and so I proceed to the severall points in question Of the Scriptures Sufficiencie and Canon Saint Bernard as wee heard approveth such a Councell wherein the Traditions of men are not obstinately defended but the revealed will of God enquired after for that this is all in all Claudius Seyssel Archbishop of Turin in Piedmont one that was Neighbour to the Waldenses and laboured to enforme himselfe touching their positions and also to confute them saith that they admitted onely the text of the old and new Testaments so that they denyed unwritten traditions to be the Rule of Faith Petrus Cluniacensis after he had reckoned up the canonicall bookes saith There are besides the authenticall bookes sixe other not to be rejected as namely Iudith Tobias Wisedome Ecclesiasticus and the two bookes of Macchabees which though they attaine not to the high dignitie of the former yet they are received of the Church as containing necessary and profitable doctrine Hugo de Sancto victore saith All the Canonicall bookes of the old Testament are twentie two there are other bookes also as namely the Wisedome of Salomon the booke of Iesus the sonne of Syrach the bookes of Iudith Tobias and the Machabees which are read but not written in the Canon The Bible was translated into English some hundred yeares as it is probably conjectured before Wickliffs translation came forth a coppie of which auncient translation my selfe have seene in our Queenes Colledge Librarie in Oxford in the praeface whereof it may be seene that the translatour held the controverted bookes for Apocrypha for thus he saith what ever booke of the Old Testament is out of these he maketh the same â—anon with us twentie five before sayd shall be set among Apocrypha that is without authoritie of beleefe Therefore the booke of Wisedome Ecclesiasticus Iudith and Tobie bee not of beleefe Hierome saith all this sentence in the prologue on the first booke of Kings now if at that time the above sayd bookes had beene accounted Authenticall by the Church and of beleefe he would have sayd but this opinion of Hieromes is not approved by the Church as Doctor Iames hath well observed Of Communion under both kinds and number of Sacraments HVgo de Sancto victore giveth a reason of the entire communicating in both kinds Therefore saith he the Sacrament is taken in both kindes that thereby a double effect might be signified For it hath force as S. Ambrose saith to preserve both body and soule Gratian rehearseth many ancient Canons and constitutions for communicating in both kinds Saint Bernard in his third Sermon on Palme Sunday maketh the Sacrament of Christs body and blood the Christians foode Touching the Sacrament of Christs body and blood saith he there is no man who knoweth not that this so singular a food was on that day first exhibited on that day coÌ„mended and coÌ„manded to be frequently received Saint Bernards words have reference to the Institution of Christ now at our Saviours last Supper there was Wine as well as Bread and Bernard treating thereof saith it was commanded to be frequently received now if the whole Church were enjoyned so to doe then also is every particular beleever who is of age fitted thereunto enjoyned to receive it accordingly The precise number of seaven Sacraments was not held for catholike doctrine no not in the Church of Rome untill more than a thousand yeares after Christ this is ingenuously confessed by Cassander Vntill the dayes of Peter Lombard who lived about the yeere 1145 you shall scarce finde any authour saith their Cassander who set downe any certaine and definite number of Sacraments neither did all the schoolemen call all those sâ—ven proper Sacraments but this is without all controversie saith the same Cassander that there are two chiefe Sacraments of our Salvation that is to say Baptisme and the Lords Supper and so speake Rupertus and Hugo de Sancto victore and he saith true for Rupertus putteth the question and asketh Which be the chiefe sacraments of our salvation and hee answereth Baptisme and the Supper of the Lord. Of the Eucharist IN this age â—ratian the Monke affoordeth us a notable testimony against transubstaÌ„tiatioÌ„ his coÌ„parison is thus drawne This holy bread is after its manner called the body of Christ as the offering thereof by the hands of the Priest is called Christs passion now the Priests oblation is not properly and literally in strict termes and sence the passion of Christ but as the Glosse hath it the Sacrament representing the body of Christ is therefore called Christ's flesh not in verity of the thing but in a mystery namely as the representation of Christ therein is called his Passion Gratians words are these As the heavenly bread which is Christ's flesh after a sort is called Christ's body whereas indeed it is the Sacrament of his body and the sacrificing of the flesh of Christ which is done by the Priest's hands is sayd to be his passion not in the truth of the thing but in a signifying mistery Iâ—annes Semeca who was the first that glossed upon Gratians decrees telleth us how this comparison is to be meant This Sacrament saith the Glosse because it doth represent the flesh of Christ is called the Body of Christ but improperly not in the truth of the thing but in the mysticall sence to wit it is called the Body of â—hrist that is it signifieth his Body From these premisses we inferre that after consecration the Sacrament is not in truth Christ's Body but onely in a
signifying mysteryâ— rei veritas the truth of the thing as it is opposed to significans mysterium a signifying mystery simply excludes the reality of the thing for it is all one as if he had sayd that it is there onely in a signifying mystery as also in saying it is there suo modo after a sort onely he implieth that it is not there truely or in the truth of the thing visibly or invisibly So that these words of Gratian drawne from Saint Austin and Prosper seconded by the Glosse and inserted into the body of the Cannon law confirmed by Pope Gregorie the thirteenth make strongly against the reall presence of Christ's body under the Accidents of Bread and Wine as my learned friend Master Doctor Featly made it appeare in his first dayes Conference with Master Musket touching Transubstantiation Besides there were divers in this age who employed both their tongues and their pennes in defence of this truth Zacharias Chrysopolitanus saith that there were some perhaps many but hardly to bee discerned and noted that thought still as Berengarius did whom they then condemned scorning not a little the â—olly of them that say the appearing accidents of Bread and Wine after the conversion doe hang in the ayre or that the sences are deceived Rupertus saith It is not to be concealed that there are diverse though hardly to be discerned and noted which are of opinion and defend the same both by word and writing that the Fathers under the Law did eate and drinke the very Bread and Wine which wee receive in the Sacrament of the Altar And hee saith they grounded their opinion upon that of the Apostle 1 Cor. 10.3.4 They did all eate the same spirituall meate and did all drinke of the same spirituall drinke for they dranke of the spiritual rock that followed them and the rocke was Christ. and the same Rupert addeth that the Church tollerated this diversity of opinion touching the sacrament of the Eucharist for so he saith in his seaventh booke whence we may observe that forsomuch as the Fathers under the Law did eate of the same Christ in Manna that we doe in the Sacrament of the Supper and yet did not nor could not eate him carnally who was not then borne nor had flesh we also in our Sacrament can have no such fleshly communication with Christ as some imagine And whereas Bellarmine replyes that the Fathers received the same among themselves but not the same with us Christians he is controlled by Saint Austine who saith it was the same which we eate the corporall food indeed was diverse but the spirituall meate was the same they eate of the same spirituall meate Of Images and Prayer to Saint Nicetas Choniates a Greeke historian reports in the life and reigne of Isaac Angelus one of the Easterne Emperours that when Fredericke Emperour of the West made an expedition into Palestina the Armenians did gladly receive the Almaines because among the Almaines and Armenians the worshipping of Images was forbidden alike Claudius Sâ—yssell and Claudius Coussord both which wrote against the Waldenses reckon up this among the Waldensian errours that they denyed the placing of Images in Churches or worshipping of them Gratian saith that question is mooved whether the deceased doe know what the living heere on earth doe and withall he addeth how that the Prophet in the person of the afflicted Israelites saith Abraham our father is ignorant of us and Israell knoweth us not Esay 63 16. and hâ—rein Gratian followed Saint Austine who maketh the same inference upon that place of Scripture Gratians resolution in this point is farther layd downe by the Glosse in those termes Gratian mooveth a certaine incident question whether the dead know the things that are done in this world by the living and he answereth that they doe not and this he proveth by the authority of Esay viz. Esay 63.16 the Master of the Sentences saith It is not incredible that the soules of the Saints that delight in the secrets of Gods countenance in beholding the same see things that are done in the world below Hugo de Sancto victore leaveth it doubtfull whether the Saints doe heare our prayers or not and rejecteth that saying of Gregorie brought to prove that they doe qui videt videntem omnia videt omnia hee that seeth him who seeth all things seeth all things hee confesseth ingenuously saying I presume not to determin this matter â—arther than thus that they see so much as it pleaseth him whom they see and in whom they see what soever they see and he saith it is a hard taske to decide these points and withall thus debateth the matter Yea but thou wilt reply If they heare me not I doe but waste words in vâ—ine in making intercession unto them that doe neither heare â—nor understand Be it so Saints heare not the words of those that call unto them well nor is it pertinent to their blessed estate to be made acquainted with what is done on earth admit that they doe not heare at all doth not God therefore heare If he heare thee why art thou sollicitous then what they heare and how much they heare seeing it is most certaine that God heareth unto whom thou prayest he seeth thy humility and will reward thy pietie and devotion so that in effect Hugo makes it not any materiall thing or of necessity to pray unto Saints Rupertus upon those Words of our Saviour Whatsoever ye shall aske the Father in my Name he will give it yoâ— Iohn 16.22 saâ—th that it is the wholesome custome and Rule of the Catholicke Church to direct her prayers to God the Father through Iesus Christ our Lord because there is no other way nor passage but by him and againe we need no other chariot save onely the name of Iesus to carry and convey our prayers into heaven Claudius Seyssel saith the Waldenses held that it was in vaine to pray to the Saints and that it was superstition for to worship and adore them Of Faith and Merit SAint Bernard beleeved Iustification by Faith alone saying Let him beleeve in thee who justifiest the ungodly and being justified by Faith onely he shall have peace with God Rupertus saith that the obstinate Iew sleights the Faith of Iesus Christ which alone is able to justifie him and seekes to be saved by his owne workes Rupertus saith that God hath freely called us by the ministery of his Word unto the state of Salvation and justified us by the gracious pardon of our sinnes not upon any precedent merits of ours Saint Bernard likewise held as we have showne that our workes doe not merit condignely and herein he is most direct and punctuall The merits of men are not such saith he as that eternall life is due to them of right or as if God should doe wrong if he did not yeeld the same unto them
of weake abilities and also for that they had made a booke which they called the everlasting Gospell whereunto they said Christs Gospell was not to be compared Pope Alexander the fourth was content upon complaint made unto him that the Friers booke should be burned provided that it were done covertly and secretly and so as the Friers should not be discredited thereby and as for William of Saint Amour hee dealt sharply with him commanding his booke to be burnt as also he suspended from their benefices and promotions all such as either by word or writing had opposed the Friers untill such time as they should revoke and recant all such speeches and writings at Paris or other places appointed so tender was his holines over the Friers credit and reputation knowing belike what service might be done to him and his successours by these newly errected orders of â—riers I call them newly erected for in the time of Pope Innocent the third about the yeare 1198 the Iacobites an order of preaching Friers were instituted by Saint Dominicke and about the beginning of this age the order of Franciscans preaching Friers Minors was instituted by Saint Francis borne at Assise a towne in Italy Of the Scriptures sufficiencie and Canon SCoâ—us saith that supernaturall knowledge as much as is necessarie for a wayfaring man is sufficiently delivered in sacred Sâ—ripture Thomas Aquinas in his commentary upon that place of Saint Paul the Scriptures are able to make one wise unto salvation that the man of God may be perfect 2 Timoth. 3.15.17 saith that the Scriptures doe not qualifie a man aâ—ter an ordinarie sort but they perfit him so that nothing is wanting to make him happy And accordingly Bonaventure saith The beneâ—it of sâ—ripture is not ordinarie but such as is able to make a man fully blessed and happy Hugo Cardinalis speaking of the bookes rejected by us saith These bookes are not received by the Church for proofe of doctrine but for information of manners Of Communion under both kindes and nâ—mber of Sacraments ALexander Hales howsoever he some way incline to that opinion that it is sufficient to receive the Sacrament in one kind yet he confesseth that there is more merit and devotion and compleatnesse and efficacie in receiving in both Againe hee saith Whole Christ is not sacramentally conteined under each forme because the bread signifieth the body and not the blood the wine signifieth the blood and not the body Concerning the Churches practise wee doe not finde that the lay people were as yet barred of the cup in the holy Sacrament for our Countrey-man Alexander Hales who flourished about the yeare of Grace 1240. saith that we may receive the body of Christ under the forme of bread onely sicut fere ubique fit à Laicis in ecclesiâ as it is almost every where done of the Laiety in the Church it was almost done every where but it was not done every where Concerning the Sacraments the Schoolemen of this age can hardly agree amongst themselves that there be seaven Sacraments properly so called Alexander of Hales saith that there are onely â—oure which are in any sort properly to be sayd Sacraments of the new Law that the other three supposed Sacraments had their being before but received some addition by Christ manifested in the flesh that amongst them which began with the new Covenant onely Baptisme and the Eucharist were instituted immediately by Christ received their formes from him and flowed out of his wounded side Touching Confirmation the same Alexander of Hales saith the Sacrament of Confirmation as it is a Sacrament was not ordained either by Christ or by the Apostles but afterwards was ordained by the Councell of Meldain France Touching extreame unction Suarez saith that both Hugo of Saint Victor in Paris and Peter Lombard and Bonaventure and Alexander of Hales and Altissidorus the cheefe schoolemen of their time denyed this Sacrament to be instituted by Christ and by plaine consequence saith he it was no true Sacrament though they were of opinion that a Sacrament might be instituted by the Apostles and therefore admitted not of this consequence Of the Eucharist COncerning the Eucharist Scotus saith that it was not in the beginning so manifestly beleeved as concerning this coversion But principally this seemeth to move us to hold Transubstantiation because concerning the Saraments we are to hold as the Church of Rome doth And hee addeth wee must say the Church in the Creed of the Lateran councell under Innocent the third which begins with these words Firmiter credimus declared this sence concerning Transubstantiation to belong to the veritie of our faith And if you demaund why would the Church make choice of so difficult a sence of this Article when the words of the Scripture This is my Body might be upholden after an easie sence and in appearance more true I say the Scriptures were expounded by the same spirit that made them and so it is to be supposed that the catholike Church expounded them by the same spirit whereby the faith was delivered us namely being taught by the spirit of truth and therefore it chose this sence because it was true thus farre Scotus Let us now see what Bellarmie saith Scotus tells us saith he that before the Councell of Lateran which was held in the yeare one thousand two hundred and fifteene transubstantiation was not beleeved as a point of faith this is confessed by Bellarmine to be the opinion of Scotus onely he would avoyd his testimonie with a minime probandum est Scotus indeed saith so but I cannot allow of it and then hee taxeth Scotus with want of reading as if this learned and subtile Doctor had not seene as many Councels and read as many Fathers for his time as Bellarmine The same Bellarmine saith that Scotus held that there was no one place of scripture so expresse which without the declaration of the Church would evidently compell a man to admit of Transubstantiation and this saith the Cardinall is not altogether improbable It is not altogether improbable that there is no expresse place of Scripture to proove Transubstantiation without the declaration of the Church as Scotus sayd for although the Scriptures seeme to us so plaine that they may compell any but a refractary man to beleeve them yet it may justly be doubted whether the Text be cleare enough to enforce it seeing the most acute and learned men such as Scotus was have thought the contrary thus farre Bellarmine unto whom I will adde the testimonie of Cuthbert Tonstall the learned Bishop of Durham His words are these Of the manner and meanes of the Reall presence either by Transubstantiation or otherwise perhaps it had beene better to leave every man that would be curious to his owne conjecture as before the councell of Lateran it was left and Master Bernard Gilpin a man most holy and
renowned among the Northerne English and one that was well acquainted with Bishop Tonstall his kinsman and Diocesan saith I remember that Bishop Tonstall often tolâ—e me that Pope Innocent the third had done very unadvâ—sedly in that hee had made the opinion of Transubstantiation an Article of Faith seeing in former times it was free to holde or refusâ— that opinion The same Bishop tolde me and many time ingenuously confessed that Scotus was of opinion that the Church might better and with more ease make use of some more commodious exposition of those words in the holy Supper and the Bishop was of the minde that we ought to speake reverently of the holy Supper but that the opinion of Transubstantiation might well be let alone This thing also the same Bishop Tonstall was wont to affirme both in words and writings that Innocent the third knew not what he did when hee put Transubstantiation among the Articles of Faith and he said that Innocentius wanted learned men about him and indeed saith the Bishop if I had beene of his councell I make no doubt but I might have beene able to have disswaded him from that resolution By this that hath beene sayd it appeares that Transubstantiation was neither holden nor knowne universally in the Church before the Lateran Councell twelve hundred yeares after Christ and that when it began to be received as a matter of Faith it was but beleeved upon the Churches authoritie and this Church virtually and in effect was Pope Innocent in the Lateran Councell twelve hundred yeeres and more after Christ before which time there was no certaintie nor necessity of beleeving it and the Councell might have chosen another sence of Christs words more easie and in all appearance more true there being no scripture sufficient to convince it Of Images and Prayer to Saints HOnorius of Authun in France saith There is none that is godly wise who will worship and adore the Crosse but Christ crucified on the crosse Roger Hoveden our native historian who lived in the beginning of this age condemned the adoration of Images for speaking of the Synodall Epistle written by the Fathers of the second Nicen councell wherein Image worship was established he tells us that Charles the King of France sent into this Isle a Synodall booke directed unto him from Constantinople wherein there were divers offensive passages but especially this one that by the joynt consent of all the Doctors of the East and no fewer than 300 Bâ—shops it was decreed that Images should be worshipped quod ecclesia Dei execratur saith he which the Church of God abhorres Guilielmus Altissiodorensis saith that for such and such reasons many doe say that neither we pray unto the Saints nor they pray for us but improperly in râ—spect we pray unto God that the merits of the Saints may hâ—lpe us Of Faith and Merit THomas Aquinas saith that workes be not the cause why a man is just before God but rather they are the execution and manifestation of his justice for no man is justâ—fied by workes but by the Habit of Faith infused yea justâ—fication is done by Faith onely And Aquinas in his commentary on the Galatians in the place alleadged tho at the first he mention such workes as are performed by the power of nature yet afterwards he speakes also of workes wrought by the power of grace and of such as Saint Iames mentions Chap. 2. saying Was not Abraham justified by workes but these were workes of grace and yet Thomas excludes from justification workes done in the state of Grace and saith Iustification is done by Faith onely Bonaventure saith that by onely Faith in Christs passion all the fault is remitted and without the faith of hâ—m no man is justified Velosillus in his animadversions upon the writings of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church observeth that Scotus held not merit of Condigâ—ity And Vega saith that Thomas Aquinas the flower of the Schoole-Divines constantly affirmeth that a sinner can not merit his owne justâ—fication either of congruity or of condignity and thus have these men given in their verdict but now let us heare themselves speake There is no action of ours saith Scotus that without the speciall ordinance of God and his divine acceptation is worthy of the reward with which God rewardeth them that serve him in respect of the inward goodnesse that it hath from the causes of it because alwayes the reward is greater than the merit and strict Iustice doth not give a better thing for a thing of lesse value And againe hee saith That speaking of strict Iustice God is bound to none of us to bestow rewards of so high perfection as hee doth the rewards being so much greater in worth than any merits of ours The Prophet David saith the learned Archbishop of Armagh hath fully cleared this case in that one sentence Psalm 62.12 With thee Oh Lord is mercy for thou râ—wardâ—st every man according to his workes Originally therefore and in it selfe this reward proceedeth meerely from Gods free bounty and mercy but accidentally in regard that God hath tyed himselfe by his word and promise to conferre such a reward it now provâ—th in a sort to be an act of Iustice in regard of the faithfull performance of his promâ—se For promise amongst honest men is counted a due debt but the thing promised being free and on our part altogether undeserved if the promiser did not performe and proved not to be so good as his word hee could not properly be sayd to doe us wrong but rather to wrong himselfe by impayring his owne credit And therefore Aquinas confesseth That God is not hereby simply made a debtor to us but to himselfe in as much as it is requisite that his owne ordinâ—nce should be fullfilled William Bishop of Paris treating of prayer giveth us this Caveat Not to leane on the weake and fraile foundation of our owne merits but wholly denying our selves and distrusting our owne strength to relye on the sole favour and mercy of God and in so doing sayth hee the Lord will never faile us Cassander saith That both ancient aâ—d moderne with full consent professe to reposâ— themselves wholly upon the meere mercy of God and merit of Christ with an humble renunciation of all worthinesse in their owne workes and this doctrine Cassander derives through the lower ages of the Schoole-men and later writers Thomas of Aquine Durand Adrian de Trajecto afterwards Pope Adrian the sixth Clictoveus and delivers it for the voyce of the then present Church THE FOVRTEENTH CENTVRIE From the yeere of Grace 1300. to 1400. PAP WHat say you of this fourteenth Age PROT. In this Age learning began to revive for so it came to passe that divers learned men among the Greekes abhorring such cruelty as the Turkes used against their Countrey-men the Grecians left those parts and fled into Italy Now by their meanes the
to the ancient custome of the Primitive Church and could not bee induced simply and absolutely to condemne the Articles of Wickliffe but thought many of them might carry a good sense and that the Author of them was a man that carried a good mind howsoever hee might faile in some things and for these and the like tenets and reproofes they were burnt at Constance contrary to the publike faith and safe conduct given by the Emperour yea Aeneas Sylvius afterwards Pope Pius the second saith expresly It was thought good by the perswasion of Sigismund the Emperour that Iohn and Hierome should bee called to the Councell of Constance so that they came not of their owne accord nor yet without their warrantie and safe conduct but the Fathers of the Counsell dealt ill with them breaking the faith of the Emperour and dispencing with the breach of his safe-conduct as being of no force without theirs because forsooth faith was not to bee kept with Heretikes as thâ—y vainely alleadged therefore these poore men must have no priviledge of their Passe-port the Emperour saith Campian in a flourish of his Sealed their Passe but the Christian world to wit the Councell of Constance greater than Caesar brake up the seale and voided the Imperiall warranâ— notwithstanding the Emperour had both called the Councell and in a Citie of his ownâ— where hee onely had authority and Wenceslaus King of Bohemia at the request of the Councell sent thither Iohn Hus under the safe-conduct of the Emperour Now what Master Hus his learning was his workes yet remaining doe testiâ—ie Besides hee translated the Scriptures into the Bohâ—mian tongue which occasioned as Cochleus saith Artisans and Tradesmen to reade them insomuch as they could dispute with the Priests yea their women were so skilled as one oâ— them made a booke and the Priests of the Thabâ—rites were so skilled in arguing out of the Scripture that one of them named Rokyzana who had beene present at the Counsell at Basil undertooke to dispute with Capistranus a great and learned Papist touching Communion in both kinds and that out of the holy Scriptures the ancient Doctors and the Churches Canons and Constitutions as also from the force of naturall reason Aenâ—as Sylvius saith That Hus was an eloquent man and that in the worlds estimation hee had gained a great opinion of holinesse Hierome was a man of that admirable eloquence learning and memory that Poghius the Florentine Historian and Oratour admired his good parts and the same Poghius being an eye-witnesse of his triall at the Councell of Constance saith He was a man worthy of eternall memory that there was no just cause of death in him that hee spake nothing in all his triall unworthy of a good man yea hee doubteth whether the things objected against him were true or no. Besides he was so resolute at his death that when the Tormentor kindled the fire behind his backe he bid him make it in his sight For if I had feared the fire said he I had never come hither and so whiles the fire was a making hee sung Psalmes and went cheerefully to his death The like resolution was in Iohn Husse at his death for whereas his enemies made a crowne of paper with three ugly devils painted therein and this title Arch-heretike set over when Iohn Husse saw it he said My Lord Iesus Christ for my sake were a Crowne of thornes why should not I then for his sake weare this light Crowne bee it never so shamefull I will doe it and that willingly and so hee died constantly and so indeed the storie reports that they went to the stake as cheerefully as it had beene to a banquet Iohn Husse may seeme to have had some propheticall inspiration for at his death hee prophesied saying You roast the Goose now but a Swan shall câ—me after mee and hee shall escape your fire Now Husse in the Bohemian tongue signifieth a Goose and Luther a Swan and this Swâ—n succeeded him just an hundred yeares after foâ— so these two blessed servants of God prophesied saying Wee cite you all to make answer aâ—d after an hundred yeares to give an account of this your doing unâ—o God and accoâ—diâ—gly as they foretold it came to passe for they suffered martyrdome in the yeare 1416. and just an hundred yeares afâ—er to wit in the yeaâ—e 1516. the Lord raysed up Luther who indâ—ed called the Pope and his doctrine to a reckoning Vpon this propheticall speech of Iohn Husse there was money coined iâ— Bohemia with this inscripâ—ion in Latine on the one side Cintum revolutis annis Deo respondebitis et mihi anno 1416 Hie onymus condemnatus that is After an hundred yeares you shall answer to God and to me and on the oâ—her side of the plate was engraven Credo unam â—ssâ— sanctam Ecclesiam Catholicam anno 1415. Io. Husse I beleeve one holy Catholike Church PA Did Husse and his followers teach as you doe PRO For substance of doctrine they taught as wee doe their enemies indeed misreported their doctrine and charged them with that they never held insomuch as Husse solemnely protested even at the point of death That hee never held those Articles which the false witnesses deposed against him but held and taught and wrote the contraâ—y taking it upon his death that hee taught nothing but the truth of the Gospell which hee would then seale with his blood Now touching their doctrine we are driven to takâ— the scaâ—tling of their opinions from the pens of tâ—eir advâ—rsaries by whom wee perceive that it is very pâ—obâ—ble 〈◊〉 Hussiâ—es were instructed and much helped by Wicklâ—â—ss bookes and accordingly wee find that both Aenâ—â—s Sylvius and Cochleus report that the meanes wheâ—â—by â—he Bohemiâ—ns came to know the doctrine of Wicklâ—ffe was for that a certaine noble man studying in Oxford carried thence with hiâ— into Bohemia Wiâ—klifs bookes de Realibus universalibus As if it had beene some rare jewell and Cochleus saith That as a Bohemian brought first into Bohemia Wickliffes bookes de Realibus uniâ—erâ—alibus So there was afterwards one Peter Paineâ— a Scholler of Wickliffes who after the death of his Master came â—lso into Bohemia and brought with him Wâ—â—kliffes bookes which were in quantity as great as Saint Auâ—â—ines Workes many of which bookes Husse did aftâ—rwards translate into their mother tongue Bellarmine jâ—ynes the Hussitesâ— and Waldenses together as holding the same points of doctrine and reproving the same abuses of Rome And Platina saith that Hâ—sse and Hierome were condemned in the Councell of Constance as being followers of Wickliffe Aeneas Silvius saith the Hussites embraced the pâ—ofession of the Waldenses Now wee have already showne the tenets of the Waldenses and Wickliffe But to come to particulars bâ—sides the Hussites there were others also of his disciples which were called Thaborites of the place Thabor
which their Generall Zisca built as a Ciâ—ie of refuge for his men These Thaborites disâ—ented more from the Church of Rome aâ—d came indeed neerer to the puritie of the Gospell then the rest of the Hussites There is in Cochleus a confession of faith made by one Iohn Pezibram a Bohemian who speaking of these Thaborites recordeth these following to have beene some of their tenets namely That materiall Bread remaines in the Sacrament and herein they were very confident insomuch as Procopius one of their Governours saidâ— That if an hundred Doctors should hold the contrary hee would tâ—ll them to their face they were all mistaken Thâ—y held That the Saints now triumphant are not to be prayed unto Hâ—sse his schollers after his death brake downe Images in Churches and Monasteries Prateolus saith They denied Purgatory and by consequent Prayer for the dead They maintained Communion in both kinds to be administred to the Lay-people They held That Christ is the head of the Church and not the Pope as also that the Pope might erre and that divers Popes had beene Heretikes They held The holy Scriptures to bee the Iudge in point of controversie Lastly Husse was condemned by the Councell of Constance for holding That the Congregation of the Predestinates and Elect were the Church of God which yet was the selâ—e same doctrine which Gregory the Great taught For hee held the Church of God to consist of right Beleevers saying That Christ according to the grace of his fore knowledge hath built his holy Church of Saints which shall continue for ever and that All the Elect are contained within the compasse and circuit of the Church and all the Reprobates are without because they doe but only in outward shew come â—o the kingdome of grace So that Gregory saith as well as Husse That the Elect onely are of the Church Now as learned Doctor Field saith This was the meaning of Wickliffe Husse aâ—d others who say that the Elect only are of the Church defining the Church to bee the multitude of the Elect not for that they thinke them only to pertaine to the Church and no others but because they onely pertaine unto it principally fully effectually and finally and in them onely is found that which the calling of grace whence the Church hath all her being intendeth to wit such a conversion to God as is joyned with finall perseverance whereof others failing and comming short they are only in an inferiour and more imperfect sort said to bee of the Church PA. Did the doctrine of Husse and his followers continue any long time PRO. It continneth even unto this day for Cochleus in the yeare 1â—34 Wisheth that he may see the remainders of the Hussites to râ—turne to the Church and the Germans to cast out all nâ—w sâ—cts whereby it is cleere that Husses doctrine was sensibly and apparantly continued not onely unto the dayes of Luthâ—r who began not to show himselfe till the yeare 1517 but even after his time also PA. Had the Hussites any Bishops or Priests of their owne lawfully calleâ— PRO. Hussâ— and Hâ—erome were Priests themselves and whiles they lived they had Priests and Preachers and after their death theâ—r follower Got them a Bishop who was Suffâ—agan to the Archbishop of Prague and by him thâ—y put iâ—to holy Orders as many Clerkes as they would which thing the Archbishop tooke so ill that hâ—e suspended his Sâ—ffragan But it was not long afâ—er that Conradus the Archbishop himselfe became a follower of Husse likewise and under this Conrad President of the Convocation the Hussites held a Councel at Prague and there they compileda Confâ—ssion of their Faith which the said Archbishop and divers Barons of Bohemia did afterwards resoluâ—ely maintaine Besides Sigismund the Emperour in a treaty with the Bohemians Granted that the Bishops should promote to holy Orders the Bohemians even Hussites which were of the Vniversitie of Prague PA. Were there many that followed Husse and were they of the better sort or onely some meane persons PRO. They were neither few nor base had they beene few what needed the Pope call the great Councâ—l of Constance against them What needed Pope Martâ—n the fift publish and proclaime a Croysado against them promising remission of sinne to all such as did either fight against them or contributed towards the warres Our rich Cardinal Henry Beaufort was sent into Germany by the Pope in the yeare 1429 to raise forces against the Hussites in Bohemia Cochleus saith There were forty thousand German Horsemen gathered together to destroy them but upon their approach the Germans turned their backes and fled not without some secret judgement of God as he thinkes Sylviusâ—aith â—aith There were three severall Armies levied against the Hussites entring Bohemia in three places but as thâ— story saith Non visum hostem fugerunt they â—led before they did see the enemie and againe the second timâ— Priusquam hostis ullus daretur in conspectus foedissima coepta fuga they fled away with shame before any enemy came to fight and left their Tents to the Bohemians insomuch as Iulian Cardinal of Saint Angelo marvailes exceedingly at this their sodaine feare and shamefull flight When Pope Eugenius had sent the same Cardinal Iulian his Legate to the Councel of Basil and presently after sent him commandment to dissolve it Iulian laied open unto him by letters how great an injurie he should doe himselfe and brought many reasons against it among others this that the Bohemians who had beene called thither would by good right say Is not heere the finger of God to bee seene Behold Armies have so often fled from before them and now the Vniversall Church also flâ—â—th behold they can neither be overcome with Armes nor by Lâ—arning this must needs appeare a miracle wrought by God to declare that their opinion is true and ours false Neithâ—r were the Hussites any such meane persons for eâ—en the Nobles of Bohemia sent two solemne Ambasâ—ages to the Councel of Constance in the behalfe of Husse and when the Councell neglected their request and dealt ill with them burning their Pastour Husse notwithstanding his safe conduct given him by the Empâ—rour then indeed they defended themselves undâ—r thâ— conduct of Iohn Zâ—scay their Geâ—erall who at one time led foâ—â—â— thoâ—sand â—ouldiers into the field and had such successe in his enterpâ—ises that Aeneas Sylvius reports of him That eleven times in fought battailes hee returned Conquerour out of the field Yea Cochleus wondereth at the strange successe he had saying That scant any historie of the Greekes or Latins or Hebrewes doth mention such a Generall a Zisca was Now for thâ—ir visible Congregations there needes no other Testimonie than this when the Councel of Constance had robbed them of their Minister Husse and nimmed from them the blessed Cup of
but only cast downe some encroachments and improvements of poperie wee have no more erâ—cted a new faith in respect of the substance and essentials thereof than that zealous reformer Iosia built a new materiall Temple when hee cast out the Idols and Idolatrous worship out of the Lords house There is no other difference betwixt the Reformed and the Romish Church then betwixt a field well weeded and the same field formeâ—ly overgrowne with weeds or betwixt a heape of corne now well winnowed and the same heape lately mixed with chaffe And if it be a vaine and frivolous thing to say it is not the same field or the same corne as vaine and frivolous is it to say the Church is not the same it was or in the same place after it is swept and cleansed of the filth and dust or to say the Churches of Corinth and Galatia after their reformation occasioned by Saint Pauls writing were new Churches and not the same they were before because that in them before the Resurrection was denied Circumcision practisâ—d discipline neglected and Châ—isâ—s Apostles contemned which things now are not found in them or to say Naaman was not still the same person because before hee was a Leper and now is cleansed PA. If our Romane Church were so corrupt whence then had you the truth what you had you received from us PRO. Saint Austine saith that the Iewes were to the Christians Library-keepers of the bookes of the Law and the Prophets and might not the Romanists performe the like office to the Protestants The Iewish Church what time it was unsound preserved the Scriptureâ—Canon and by transcribingâ— and reading the same delivered the whole text therof trâ—ly to others And thus the Roman Church though in many things unsound preserved the bookes of holy Scripture and taught the Apostles Câ—eed with sundry parts of divine truth gathered from the same and by these principles of Christianitie preserved in that Church judicious and godly men might with study and diligence finde out what was the first delivered Christian doctâ—ine in such things as were necessary to salvation And herein was Gods gracious providence sâ—ene that even that Church wherein Luther himselfe received his Christianitie Ordination and power of Ministerie should for the benefit of Gods children preserve the Word and Sacraments and deliver them over to us though somewhat corruptly by their adding more Sacraments than ever Christ ordained and abusing those which we retaine with divers unwarrantable rites and Ceremonies In a word we received from you some truth mingled with errour wee have pared away your corruption as a worme out of an Apple and retained the wholsome and substantiall truth PA. Was there any Chucrh in being save our Roman Catholick in thâ— Ages next before Luther if so show uâ— where it was and with whom it held Communion PRO. When Christ came first into the World the Iewish Church was corrupted both in doctrine and manners this Church had in it Scribes and Pharisees as well as Zachary and Elizabeth Ioseph and Mary Simeon and Anna with others these were all of the same outward Communion with the Priesthood for they resorted to the Temple there they prayed and performed such holy rites as God himselfe enjoyned untill they heard farther of the Gospel by Christs manifestation Now I demand were not Ioseph and Mary and such good people â—ound members of Gods Church although the Scribes and Pharisees bore all the sway in the Church and had the Priesthood the word and Sacraments in their dispensing yet even then God had a Remnant of holy people which made up his Church though others went under the name thereof and exceeded them in number Now with these the sound part kept an outward Communion yet did not partake in all their erronious doctrines but condemned their grosser errours In like sort we were all of one outward Communion of one Church wherin salvation was and yet we shared not in those errours which a faction in the Church like the Pharisees of old maintained For as learned Dr. Field saith The errours which wee condemne at this day whereupon the difference groweth betweene us and the Romish faction were never generally received nor constantly delivered as the doctrines of the Church but doubtfully disputed and proposed as the opinions of some men in the Church not as the resolved determinations of the whole Church For had they beene the undoubted doctrines and determinations of the Church all men would have holden them entirely and constantly as they held the doctriâ—e of the Trinity and other Articles of the Faith And I have already showne from age to age that the errours condemned by us never found generall allowance and constant consent in the dayes of our fathers but that some worthy guides of Gods Church ever opposed them And thus was our Church preserved under the Papacie as wheaâ—e is among tares for wee were formerly mingled together like corne and chaffe in one heape until the time of Reformation came and winnowed our wheat from the chaffe of Poperie So that howsoever divers under the Papacie not brooknig Reformation maintained sundry erronious opinions Yet there were other worthies who living within that Communitie were not equally poysoned with errour but firmely beleeved all fundamentall truth and delivered the maine Articles of Christianitie over unto others For Answer then to the Question Where had our Church her being in the Ages next before Luther we say It was both within the Romane Church and without it For as learned Doctor Chaloner saith Our Church had in those dayes a twofold Subsisâ—encie â—he one Separate from the Church of Rome the other Mixt and conjoyneâ— with it Separate so it was in the Albâ—genses and Waldenses a peâ—ple whoâ— so soone as the Chuâ—ch of Rome had inteâ—preted her selfe touching sundry of those maine poynts of dâ—ffâ—rence betweene us and that a man could no lâ—nger Communicate with her in the publicke worship of God by reâ—son of soâ—e Idolatrous rites and customes which shâ— had establishâ—dâ— arose in France Savâ—y and the places neere adjoyning and professed the same substantiall Negatives and Affirmatives which we doe in a state Sepaâ—atâ— from the Church of Rome having Pastours and Congregations apart to themselves even unto this day From these descended the Wicklefisâ—s in England and the Hussites in Germanie and oâ—hers in other Countries who Maâ—gre the â—urie of fire and Sword maintained the same doctrine as they did The state of the Church mixt and conjoyned with the Church of Rome it selfe consisted of those who making no visible separation from the Roman profession as not perceiving the mysterie of iniquity which wrought in it did yet mislike the grosser errours and desired a Reformation To answer then the quâ—stion directly where was the Prâ—testants Church before Luthers time that is where was any Church in the world that taught that doctrine which the Protestants now teach â—
â—he private Masses and some also must be attributed to the very change of time it selfe as publicke prayers in an unknowne tongue in Italy France and Spaine for there a long time the Latine was commonly understood of all but when afterwards by the invasion of those barbarous nations the Goths and Vandals their speeches degenerated into those vulgar tongues that are now used there then the language not of the Service but of the people was altered so that upon the fall of the Empire learning began to decay and the publicke Service no longer to be understood by reason of the change of the vulgar tongues Lastly wee are able to show as appeares by the eighth Centurie of this treatise when and by whom corruption of doctrine hath beene brought in and how opposition hath beene made from time to time in case of the adversaries violent intrusion for instance sake for the space of sixe hundred yeares and more next after Christ the Catholicke doctrine of the Church of Rome was this that Images were not to be adored and this is witnessed by Gregorie the Great who allowed no use of Images but onely Historical for so he saith They are not set up to be worshipped but onely to instruct the people that be ignorant yea he speakes positively that The worshipping of Images is by all meanes to bee avoided Now this doctrine maintained by Gregorie the first was changed by Gregorie the second and third Adrian the first and second so that here we have taken them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the manner to wit with doctrine novel and differing from their Ancestors and therefore need no farther examination But that the Reader may trace them along we find that this Innovation was resisted by three hundred thirtie eight Bishops at Constantinople in the yeare 754 and though afterwards it got strength at Nice was defended by Rome and at last got to bee a part of the Roman Faith yet was the same disliked denied opposed and resisted by all the good men that lived in that and aftertimes as Charles the Great the councel of Franckford Lewis his sonne the Synod of Paris Alcuinus and the Church of England PA. Will you charge our Religion with novelty can that bee called new which is of so long continuance PRO. Divers points of your Religion are confessed novelties your owne men yeeld that for Above a thousand yeares after Christ the Popes judgement was not esteemed infallible nor his authority above that of a Generall Councell the contrary being decreed in the late Councels of Constance and Basil that Not any one ancient Writer reckons precisely seven Sacraments the first Author that mentioneth that number being Peter Lombard and the first Councell that of Florence that in former ages for thirteene hundred yeares The holy Cup was administred to the Laity that divine service was celebrated for many ages in a knowne and vulgar language understood by the people that Transubstantiation was neither named nor made an Article of faith before the Councell of Lateran which was above twelve hundred yeares after Christ besides many more confessions of this kind which might bee produced Now that a thing may be novell though of long duration may appeare by this our Saviour when he would declare Pharisaicall Traditions to be Novelties did not respect their long continuance in the corrupt estate of the Church but saith Math. 19.8 Ab initio non fuit sic that they were not from the beginning delivered by God or practised by the Church so that if the duration and antiquity of your opinions be but humane that is not Apostolicall neither from Apostolicall grounds they may according to Tertullian be esteemed new and novelties for a point is new in Religion that did not proceed from God and his blessed spirit either interminâ—s or by deduction from his word that is the Ancient of dayes whatsoever pretences of duration and continuance may be supposed It remaineth then that that is new in Religion which is not most ancient so that if you cannot derive your Religion further then from some of the Fathers the tradition whereupon it is builded is then but humane and so a new thing even Noveltie it selfe And therefore Tertullian telleth us That is most true which is most ancient that most ancient which was from the beginning that from the beginning which was from the Apostles as if there were no truth in faith that was not from the beginning If Christ was alwayes and before all truth is a thing equally ancient and from all eternitie saith the same Father and therefore whatsoever savorâ—th against the truth this saith he is Heresie thoâ—gh it be of long continuance for there is no prescription of time that will hold plea against the Ancient of dayes and his truth I know that Pamelius in his notes upon Tertullian would ward off these testimonies by saying that Tertullian spoke thus When hee began to fall into the fancie of Montanus but be it so yet hee delivered some truths after hee lapsed into Montanisme besides Bellarmine for proofe of Monasticall vowes and veiling of Nunnes alleadgeth divers places out of the same treatise of Tertullians de Virginibus velandis of veiling of virgins and then belike Tertullian was no Montanist when Bellarmine for his advantage alleadged him PA. Our Religion Mr. Brerely is that good seed which Christ the good husbandman first sowed in his field Math. 13.24 yours is like the Tares which the enemy afterwards came and sowed among the wheate PRO. A great part of your Religion specially that which is controverted betwixt you and us and namely your Trent additionals and Traditionals was not sowne by the good husbandmen Christ and his Apostles but by the envious man by the craft of the man of sinne and his complices the sinnes of Christian men so requiring for as it is already observed erroneous doctrine it may be antiqua ancient but it cannot be prima that one truth and faith Ephes. 4.5 Which was once delivered to the Saints as S. Inde speakes and therefore is Christ the Husbandman first presented in the Parable as Seminans sowing good seed in his field before the Enemy is produced Reseminans resowing the same Acres with unprofitable graine Besides Religion is one thing and Reformation another the one presupposeth the other our reformation is of a later date our Religion is the old Religion coevall with the Primitive and Apostolike howsoever you taxe us with noveltie But the Disciple is not above his Master the Iewes could say to our Saviour What new doctrine is this and the Grecians to S. Paul May we not know what this new doctrine whereof thou speakest is but wee say in our just defence it is not wee that affâ—ct noveltie but it is you that counterfeit the face of Antiquity as the Gibeonites dealt with Ioshua deceiving him
at Aâ—twerpe Anno 1576. at Paris Anno 1586. at Coleine Ann. 1616. but no such place was there to be found the Divines of Lovaine had taken a course with them and suppressed these testimonies but by good hap I met with them in the Basil Edition Anno 1569. Object Those whom you have named in your Catalogue were originally Catholikes and not Protestants Wickliâ—fe and Husse were Catholike Priests and Luther was an Augustine Frier you cannot name such as were Protestants originally they came forth of our Church Answer Whence I pray you sprang Christs Apostles were they not taken out of the Iewish Church at that time much corrupted S. Paul speaking of himselfe and the service of his God saith Whom I doe serve from my progenitors meaning Abraham Isaac and Iacob the first Fathers of the faithfull for as for S. Pauls immediate predecessors it is likely that they relished of the leven of the Pharisees It can be no more prejudice to our Church that Luther Wickliffe aâ—d Husse were originally Papists than to S. Paul that he was originally a Pharisee or to S. Austine that he was orinally a Manichee or to our Ancestors at the first conversion of our land that they were originally heathen or to all true Converts that they were originally unregenerate For as Tertullian saith Fiunt non nascuntur Christiani We are not borne Christians but we become Christians Neither is it true that wee can name none of our Church that were not originally Papists For Farellus and the Waldensian Ministers for more than 400. yeares were not originally Papists though Waldo himselfe was Besides the Fathers for 600 yeares and the Monkes in Britaine at Augustines comming were not originally Papists In the Greeke Church from 700. to 700 afterwards many thousands held as wee doe in all fundamentals who never were originally Papists nor millions of others in the Easterne Churches and namely in the Greeke Church there have bene from 700. to 700. afterwards many thousands which held as we doe in all fundamentals and never were originally Papists Lastly the like argument might be urged against all that embraced Reformation in Iosias dayes that they originally were involved in the common errors and Idolatry of the Iewish Church Likewise that Zachary and Elizabeth and Simeon and Anna and the Apostles were originally deduced from that Church which held many errors concerning the temporall kingdome of the Messias and divorces for other causes than adultery c. Which errors Christ and his Apostles reproved In England and most parts of the world the first Christians were originally Paynims and Idolaters what prejudice is that to Christianity or advantage to Heathenisme Object Your Churches professors mentioned in your Catalogue wanted lawfull succession Answer There is a two-fold succession the one lineall and locall the other doctrinall this of doctrine is the life and soule of the other Irenaeus describeth those which have true succession from the Apostles To bee such as with the succession of the Episcopall office have received the câ—rtâ—ine grace of tâ—uth and this kind of succession hee calleâ—h the principâ—ll succession Gregory Nazianzen having said that Atâ—anasius succeeded Saint Marke in godlinesse addeth That this succession in godlinesse is properly to be accounted succâ—ssion for he that holdeth the same doctrine is also pâ—rtaker of the same throne but he that is against the doctrine must be reputed an adversary even while hâ—e sitteth in the throâ—e but the former hath the thing it selfe and the truth so that according to Irenaeus and Nazianzâ—n succession in doctrinâ— suâ—ficeth yea Nazianzen as we have heard makes it all one 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so that he which holds the same truth of doctrinâ— may bee said to sit in the same Chaire of succession Besides wee are able to shew succession also in place for â—ive hundred yeares in most parts of Christendome and since that in the Greeke Church untill this day and in the Latine Church from the time of Waldo in France Bohemia and other places And for the Church of England the lineall succession of her Bishops is showne particularly by Mr. Francis Mason de ministerio Anglicano Mr. Goodwin in his Catalogue of the Bishops of England and Mr. Isaacson in his Chronologicall Table of the succession of the Bishops of England PA. Name in the space of a thousand yeares next before Luther three knowne and confessed Protestant Bishops succeeding each to other and if you had such expresse their agreement with you in the maine points controverted betweene us PRO. This demand was eagerly pressed upon me by a Romish Priest but the Stone which he hurled at mee not comming forth of Davids sling recoiles upon himselfe like the stone that Achilles flung at a dead skull which â—ebounded backe and strucke out the slingers eyeâ— Redijt lapis ultor ab osse Actorisque suifrontem oculâ—squè petit For I would in like manner demand of him to name three knowne and confessed Popish Bishops succeeding each other who maintained the worship of Images before the second Councell of Nice or that beleeved Transubstantiation before the Roman Councell under Pope Nicholasâ— or that avowed the dry and halfe Communion before the Councell at Constance under Martin the fift or that held the effect of the Sacraments to depend upon the Priests intention before the Councell at Florence or defined the Pope to be above a Generall Councell before the Councell of Lateran under Leo the tenth or that determined the twelve new Articles of Pius the fourth his Creed to be all de Fide and necessary to salvation before the Councell of Trent Besides there is no necessitie of naming three Bishops succeeding each other and opposing Poperie It sufficeth to name such as opposed it tho they sate not successively in the same Chaire for all Romish errors and superstitions rushed not in at once into the Church but by degrees now such as held the fundamentals with us and opposed any one error or more when they were first espied to creepe into the Church they were Protestants though they went not then under that name Now according to this account of Protestants wee can produce many more than three Bishops succeeding each other who in their times made head against Romish usurpations and superstitions for instance sake S. Austine and with him two hundred and seventeene Bishops of Africa and their successors for a hundred yeares together if their owne Records be true opposed the Popes supremacie in point of Appeales To speake nothing of the innumerable Bishops in the Easterne Churches and the Habassines and Muscovites and elsewhere succeeding each the other for many hundred yeares differing in no fundamentall point from Protestants and keeping no quarter at all with the Pope or See of Rome when Austine the Monke was sent into England by Gregory the Great the most ancient British and Irish Bishops withstood the Popes authority and ordinances stifly adhering to the Churches
of Asia in their celebration of Easter and tho they were cut off from the Popes Communion yet they sleighted it and persisted in their former opinions and customes as I have already showne in the sixth Centurie In the later ages Rainerius the Popish Inquisitour makes mention of two famous Bishops of the Waldenses one Balazinanza of Verona and one Iohn de Lugio about the yeare 1250. And I have showne in the twelfth age out of Mathew Paris about the yeare of Grace 1223 that amongst the Albigenses there was one Bartholomew who ordered and governed the Churches in Bulgaria Croatia Dalmatia Hungaria and appointed Ministers insomuch as the Bishop of Portuense the Popes Legate in those parts complained thereof And in the fifteenth age I have showne out of Cochleus in his Historie of the Hussites knowne and confessed Protestants how Conâ—adus Arch-bishop of Prague became an Hussite and held a Councel at Prague in the yeare 1421 and there compiled a Confession of their Faith agreeable to the doctrine of the Reformed Churches Now those who succeeded the forenamed Bishops among the Waldenses and Albigenses as also the Hussites although they carried not the titles of Bishops yet they exercised Episcopall authoritie in ordaining Priests the Catalogue of whom is extant in the historie of the Waldenses and Albigenses And thus they have in Germany those whom they call Superintendents and generall Superintendents and where these are not as in the French Churches yet There are saith Zanchius usually certaine chiefe men that doe in a manner beare all the sway as if order it selfe and necessitie led them to this course And what are these but Bishops in effect unlesse wee shall wrangle about names which for reason of State those Churches were to abstaine from PA. Since you impute so many errours to the Church of Rome which you pretend to have reformed tell us when those corruptions came in for doubtlesse some histories would note them some learned men oppose them for in every great and notorious change there may be observed the Authour time and place with the like Circumstances as Bellarmine saith PRO. By the like reason it would follow that a Tenant who had long dwelt he and his Ancestors in a decayed house should not bee bound to repayre it unlesse his Land-lord could tell him in what yeare or month every rafter or wall began to decay a sick patient should not purge out an ill humour unlesse hee or his Physician could name the time when his first mis-diet had bred this humour so Naaman because hee was once cleane and could not tell the very time meanes and degrees of the comming of his Leprosie might be proved to bee cleane still and neede neither the Prophet nor the washing 2 King 5. Errours and abuses are not all of one sort there were some heresies such as the Arrian and Nestorian which strucke at the very head the one at the divinitie of Christ the other at the divinity of the Holy Ghost and these being notorious were soone discerned and opposed and herein Bellarmines reason many take place but Poperie like that mysterie of iniquitie 2 Thes. 2.7 works closely it creeps and spreads abroad like a Cancker or Gangreene 2. Tim. 2.17 it is like the Cockatrices Egge a long time in the shell before the Cockatrice it selfe appeare Now these kinde of corruptions creepe into the Church secretly and insensibly and are best knowne by their differences from their first pure doctrine so that if we can shew the present doctrines of Rome refused by us disagree from the Primitive it is enough to shew there hath beene a change though wee cannot point out the time wheÌ„ every point began to be changed Tertullian saith The very doctrine it selfe being compared with the apostolicke by the diversity contrarietie thereof will pronounce that it â—ad â—or Authour neither any Apostle nor any Apostolicall man If from the beginning it was not so and now it is so there is a change All dranke of that Cup now all must not all then prayed in knowne tongues with understanding and all publike service done to edification now the custome is altered though wee know not when this change began Besides they that call upon us to show the time place and persons of such and such changes in Religion cannot theâ—selves performe the like Gregory de Valentia a learned Iesuite confesseth that the use of receiving the Sacrament in one kind began first in some Churches and grew to be a generall custome in the Latine Church not much before the Councel of Constance in which at last to wit about two hundred yeares agon this custome was made a law But if they put the question to him as they doe to us and aske him When did that custome first get fâ—oting in some Churches he returnes this for Answer Minimè constat it is more than he can tell Doctor Fisher bishop of Rochester and Cardinal Cajetan grant that of Indulgences no certainty can be had what their Originall was or by whom they were first brought in Doctor Fisher addeth that Of Purgatorie in the ancient Fathers there is no mention at all or very rare that thâ— Latines did not all at once but by little and little receive it that tâ—e Grecians beleeve it not to this day and that Purgatorie being so long unknowne it is not to be marveiled that in the first times of the Church there was no use of Indulgences for they had their beginning after that men had a while beene scared with the torments of Purgatorie which as the same Râ—ffensis saith was but Sero cognitum lately knowne and discovered The Originall of their private Masses wherein the Priest receiveth the Sacrament alone and none of the people communicate with him but are all lookers on Doctor Harding fetcheth from no other ground than Lacke of devotion on the peoples part now let them tell us in what Popes dayes the people fell from their devotion and then we may haply tell them when their private Masses began Bellarmine saith that The worship and Invocation of Saints was brought into the Church rather by custome than any precept Concerning prayer in an unknowne tongue It is to be wondred how the Church altered in this point saith Erasmus but the precise time he cannot tell So little reason have they to think that al such changes must be made by any one certaine author it being confessed that some of them may come in pedetentim as B. Fisher saith of purgatory by litle and little not so very easie to be discerned some may come in by the silent coÌ„sent of many grow after into a generall custome the beginning whereof is past mans memorie as the abstaining from the cup some may arise of the undiscreet devotion of the multitude as those of Purgatorie and Indulgences and some from the want of devotion in the people as