Selected quad for the lemma: opinion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
opinion_n	body_n	bread_n	consecration_n	586	5	10.7324	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A01628	A speciall treatise of Gods prouidence and of comforts against all kinde of crosses and calamities to be drawne from the same With an exposition of the 107. Psalme. Heerunto is added an appendix of certaine sermons & questions, (conteining sweet & comfortable doctrine) as they were vttered and disputed ad clerum in Cambridge. By P. Baro D. in Diui. Englished by I.L. vicar of Wethers-fielde.	Hyperius, Andreas, 1511-1564.; Baro, Peter, 1534-1599, attrib. name. aut; Ludham, John, d. 1613.	1588 (1588)	STC 11760; ESTC S120495	239,789	550

Question we haue giuen out to diminishe that error wherby it is defended That we are corporallye ioyned and coupled with Christ and it is thought that no fruite can otherwise be reaped by him for both these I suppose to be false and do vnderstand it thus That we are not corporally but spiritually and yet verily and indéed ioyned with christ and made pertakers of him and of all his benefites They that maintain that grosse coniunction are of this opinion that whereas they had rightlye conceiued in their mindes that to the atteynment of saluation and eternall life it was necessary that we should be ioyned with Christ to the ende we might be partakers of his life and death and of his merits and desertes they supposed that this ioyning togither could not otherwise be except he were there bodilye present where we are and so might be ioyned with our bodies and mindes which is false absurd neither though it were true could it yet performe that which is sought for that is to saye it could neuer the more giue either righteousnes or eternall life vnto vs. We will therfore endeuour to shewe that there is no such coniunction of vs with Christ our head neither if there were would the same bee wholesome or profitable for vs and therfore that we haue neede if we would be saued to be spiritually ioyned with him But that we may go plainely to woorke we are to knowe that those that maintaine the opinion which wee impugne are manie and sundry For some that they might haue Christ corporally present with them affirme that the bread and wine in the Sacrament of the Eucharist doo turne and are changed into the verie bodie and blood of Christ in somuch that after consecration it is not onelie Sacramentally but also sensibly handled broken by the handes of the Priest and euen wasted consumed by the téeche of the faithfull for that this might be graunted Berengarius was inforced to confesse it by Pope Nicholas and the generall Councell wherein were presente 114. Bishops as it is had in Gracians Decree Distinct 2. chap. Ego Berengarius But other some who disliked of this opinion deuised another way whereby they might corporally bee coupled with Christ They said therefore that the bread and wine doo remaine but that in them and with them the bodie and bloud of Christ is really corporally present and that this commeth to passe by the force and efficacie of Christes wordes But it fell out with these as it did with those that were first mentioned namely that when they could scarcely or not at all defend and maintaine their opinion some reuolted also from them who deuised yet a new way whereby holding fast that as it were with tooth and naile which they iudged necessarie to be doone to saluation namely that wee must corporally bee ioyned with Christ they might maintaine and defend it and they lay this as a foundation That the bodie of Christ is euerie where and that not by the force of the Sacramentall words as the rest doo but by force of the personall or substantiall vnion and therefore that we are corporallie conioined and coupled with him Such a like thing is Osiander saide to haue dreamed of who that hee might deriue the essentiall righteousnesse of God which consisteth in Christ vnto vs hee would haue vs in suche wise to bee ioined with him as that there might be a reall application of one substance to another This therefore is that which wée disallowe and doo thus goe about to prooue it false That such a coniunction presence might be established it is necessarie that the bodie of Christ bee at once either in manie places wherein the first and second sort do agrée or in all as the third sort doo holde who of their opinion are called Vbiquists or Euerywheremen but either of them is repugnant to the humane nature of Christ and dooth vtterlie destroy it therefore neither of both can bee true For that we may speake of that first one bodie though it be great so long as it remaineth one can be but in one place onely at one time as for example This bodie of mine is wholly conteined in this space of aire which compasseth me about and whither I stretch foorth mine armes or my legs or pluck them in yet will it bee alwaies but in one place howbeit in a greater if it be stretched out in a lesse if it be plucked in But if to cōtinue in one example it bee deuided into a hundred parts and euerie part be put seuerally in his own proper place then my bodie which now is one and in one place shall be in a hundred places but not the whole in euerie one but euerie of the partes thereof in euerie of the places And forasmuch as euerie parte of my bodie is a bodie a bodie I say consisting in proportion of length bredth and depth now shall not one body be in a hundred places but a hundred bodies in so manie places Therefore they that iudge Christes bodie to bee in manie and diuers places at once must either of necessitie deuide it into partes or make Christ to haue manie bodies but either of both is false and absurde and against the humaine nature of Christ and a destruction vnto it For why Christs bodie is not to bee deuided that it might by partes be in manie places neither are his whole and entire bodies in manie places but remaining one and vndeuided it is in one place in a greater place if it be greater as if it bee extended from the verie heauens to the earth or in a lesse if it be lesse as if it be inclosed in the bread For that greatnes of the bodie dooth not require manie places to bee in but onelye a greater place as also the multitude of bodies dooth require a multitude of places This thing is so certaine and true that euen the Godhead it selfe though it be euerie where yet cannot it be in diuers and sundrie places For otherwise it were necessarie as wee saide before that either it should bee deuided into partes or that it should bee manifold whereof neyther is true For albeit to be euerie where in all places may seeme to be the verie same that to bee in manie places is yet is not the verie same For to be euery where or in all places is not to be in many in diuers places but in one place agréeable to the greatnes therof And therfore God séeing he is infinite is forsooth in one place but yet in an infinite place that is to say euery where and not in many and sundrye places for then he should not be somwhere or in some place and besides he should either be deuided or manifolde But he is simple and vndeuided filling and replenishing all thinges euerye where wholly and without any distance of place in all and euery place These thinges perhappes when the Vbiquists or Euerywhere men sawe but

be inhabited wher before were waters againe the waters haue ouerslowed possessed all things where before were habitable cuntries it is no hard matter to proue out of the Philosophers Historians and Poets Our Tertullian in his Apologeticus and Booke De Pall●o hath many things agreeable to this present place Rhodos and Delos two Ilandes in the sea came sodeinly forth to light To the Cyclads were adioyned Ilands by little and little now some and then some Homer in his book 4. of Odyssea recordeth that from the Iland Pharos into Egipt was the distance of a night and daies sayling all which space is now annexed to the firme land Touching which thing also Pomponius Mela writeth in his book 2. and Lucan in his book 10. If we may credit Herodotus the Sea sometimes from aboue Memphis to the mountaines of Ethiopia went all oouer The same testifieth that it flowed verye nigh to the Temple of Diana of Ephesus On the other side whatsoeuer is between the towne Rhegium and Cicelie that was once champeon ground now it is a great and large Sea many Authors witnessing the same as namly Tertullian in his Apologeticus Solinus Iustine in his booke 4 Virgill in his booke 3. of Eneidos Sylius Italicus booke 14. Philo in his booke De Mundo writeth that the thrée cities Egira Bura and Helice were by the violent rage of the Sea swallowed vp Yea and the Iland Atlas as Plato mentioneth in his Timeo with a certaine portion of Asia and Aphrica through Earthquakes and strange floods continnuing by the space of fower and twentye howres sanke sodeinly downe and was ouerwhelmed of the sea Which sea by that misfortune became verye rough and dangerous and in no wise afterward passable or saileable By these things we may easilye vnderstand that such not able and memorable alterations as are héere spoken off doo not seldome times come to passe And there are fiue metonymies or denominations when as to signifie barrennes he putteth the desert a thirsty place the dry land and salte licour For in such places nothing is wont to growe Where the fresh water runneth not nor the raine conueniently mo●●ieneth there doubtles is neither sowing nor reaping as in fandy places on the shore and on the tops of hils is to be séene Likewise where the earth is salt and brackish or Salte is digged there dooth not lightlye growe any thing Phynie in his booke 31. chapt 7. saith that all and euery place wherein salte is found is barren and bringeth forth nothing Whither it séemeth to belong that Iudges 9. Abimilech when he had subuerted the citie Sichem did sowe salt there signifying that he would make that place from thence-foorth vtterlye barren and void of habitation To the like effect there is extant a threatning in Ieremy 17. Cursed be the man that trusteth in man and maketh flesh his arme and withdraweth his hart from the Lord. For he shal be like the heath in the wildernes and shal not see when any good commeth but shall inhabite the parched places in the wildernes in a salte land and not inhabited Blessed be the man that trusteth in the Lord and whose hope the Lord is For he shal be as a tree that is planted by the water which spreadeth out her rootes by the riuer c. In these woords of the Prophet thou seest in like manner fertilitie to be signified by wateringes and moystures as also in this place are put floods water springs pooles of waters For the wickednes of them that dwell therin The cause why such alterations are b●ought vpon lands as also vpon the soile and vpon the Sea The Lord saith he dooth it purposing to punish by bis iustice the sinnes of the inbabitants And so commonly commeth it to passe where a Cuntry is fruitfull and plentifull in all things there the inhabitantes for the most part through the plenty of things fall to idlenes from idlenes to wantonnes and the vices that flowe from thence Which when it commeth to passe the Lord being prouoked to wrath sendeth barrennes and many other aduersities till as by little and little they either repent or els are vtterly destroyed Such alteratiōs of cuntries cities commonweales we may sée dayly Examples we haue at this day most cheefly in Italy which is a most happy and fruitfull cuntrye but with how great calameties haue we seene it battered and shaken though it hath not béen vtterly ouerwhelmed with waters And heer fall to the ground the causes of alterations which the Philosphers are wont to bring and alleadge saying that through a certaine necessitie and force of the superior bodies gouerning these inferior things hoere belowe the lands and ●eas 〈◊〉 keep● this order of nature that b●acertain interchangeable course and compasse they are 〈◊〉 while better another while worsse euen like as we see man also to be dealt withal who first of all in his infancy and childe ho●de is weake and without strength but afterward growing in yeeres he gathereth strength and commeth at length by little and little to great perfections but then again when age commeth on he droupeth and decayeth Thus I say they suppose the case to stand generrally with waters and lands through a certaine force 〈◊〉 power of the superior bodies ruling al interior things and of this opinion was aswell Aristotle in his Metcorologiks as also Strabo in his book 17. and other moe disputing of these matters But in this place it is expresselye saide that al these thinges are wrought by the Lord himselfe and euen then verily when it pleaseth him to reuenge the sinnes of men the inhabitants or otherwise to declare s●t for●h his iustice power and goodnes Therfore whether such changes and alterations doo fall out sodeinly or slowly and more leisurely whither by hidden causes or by open and manifest as if earthquakes inundations of waters or such like means goe before it behou●th not to determine by and by that they come to passe by a certaine entercourse of thinges or contingently but by the determinate will and purpose of the Lord which yet notwithstanding men cannot alwaies perceiue and sée Wherfore we learne againe héer very cleerly that all things which happen in this worlde are ordered and disposed by Gods prouidences and that crosses are sent for the sinnes of men and benefites giuen fréely through the onelye mercy and goodnes of God againe that God will alwaies illustrate set foorth his iustice power and goodnes And al these things ought we in the like euents whilest namely through tempests through caterpillers and other vermin destroying the fruites we haue a barren yeers and scarfety of victuals or are in danger through infection or distressed by any other meanes not much vnlike to turn them ●o our comfort and consolation And there he placeth the hungrie The second example prouing Gods goodnes and prouidence to be preeminent and to beare swaye in all things drawen from the alterations and sondrye successes

durste neither deuide Christs body nor multiply it and yet would still stiffly holde that corporall presence one thing that remained they sayd namely that Christs bodye is not manifolde nor in sundry places but euerywhere and in all places by reason of the personall or hypostaticall vnion that it hath with the Woord as who should say that because they might haue it corporally present in some fewe places to witte where the Lords Supper is celebrated vpon earth they supposed that it must be euery where To the confuting of which opinion this saying of Augustine is sufficient Take awaye the spaces from bodies and they will be no bodies which if it be true thē these men labouring with tooth and naile to keepe Christs body really present haue vtterly depriued themselues of that body And who séeeth not that to be euery where is the propertie of God alone And therfore that we may conclude that which we propounded at the beginning this opinion and the two former doo destroye the humane nature of Christ either by deuiding it or by multiplying it or by infinit stretching of it And therfore they cannot be true yea and though they were true yet cannot that be truelye concluded which they intend namely That we are corporallye coupled and conioyned with Christ For when thou sayst that the faithfull are corporally ioyned with Christ thou sayst not only that they are ioyned togither which no christian man will deny but thou determinest also the mean wherby that commeth to passe and thou sayst that it is corporall or bodily touching which pointe onely is the question and controuersie For it followeth not by and by though the body of Christ be in many or in all places that therfore it is corporally that is to saye after a bodily manner ioyned with vs séeing the Godhead which is euery where cannot yet be saide corporallye to be ioyned with the Creatures though that in it we liue moue and haue our being And therfore the bodye of Christ is neither in many places nor yet euerywhere for this is against his diuine nature neither if it were euery where or in many places would it yet by and by followe that we are corporallye coupled and vnited with him Moreouer euerye of these opinions haue their seuerall and sundrye faultes whereof yet we néede not to repeate euery particular For the first saith That the bread is changed and transubstanciated into the body and the Wine into the bloud of Christ which is a very absurd thing to be thought For why if thou beléeuest that which we confesse in the Créed namely that the body of Christ was made of the substance of the Virgin Mary how is it that thou contendest that the same is yet stil made and that of some other matter then of the substance of the Virgin Mary to witte Bread whose substance is changed into the substance of the body of Christ it had béene more tollerable to say That the bread is abolished and vtterlye brought to nought and that Christs body dooth stay it self in the place therof and therfore the subtiller sorte which write in these daies of this matter doo reiect the deuice of Transubstantiation not expressely in déed but they conclude vpon that with the which it can by no meanes agrée for they place Christ not corporallye but spirituallye and so as he occupieth no place in the Eucharist The second offereth violence to Christs woords This is my body that is to say in this or with this is my bodye this is a forced exposition if at least it may be called an exposition The third destroyeth the Sacrament whose dignitye it would séem to defend when as that it might haue christs body really present in it it affirmeth that the same is also euery where out of the sacrament And héerby I think it may sufficiently appéere that there is no such corporall coniunction of Christ with vs no nor yet can be sith neither Christs body nor the manner of coniunction which is set down can by any meanes beare it But now we must shewe That euen this reall and corporall coniunction if there were any cannot giue or procure saluation which I proue thus If there were euer any corporally conioyned with Christ then was it the most holy Virgin Mary his Mother for she was bodily substancially and naturally ioyned with him because that being conceiued by the power of the Holy ghost of her very substance she bare him nine monethes in her wombe and afterward being borne she gaue him suck held him in her armes and brought him vp But the virgin Maries saluation was so far off from depending vpon this couiunction that vnlesse an other more néere and streighter coniunction had come betwéen she had neuer entred into the Kingdome of Heauen which thing Christ declareth to a certaine woman crying out Blessed is the womb that bare thee and the pappes that gaue thee sucke making this answer Yea rather blessed are they that heare the woord of God and keep it and to them that saide Thy Mother and thy bretheren seeke thee without who is my Mother and my bretheren saith he whosoeuer dooth that that God commaundeth he is my brother my sister and my Mother The like may be saide of Simeon who took Christ vp into his armes and imbraced him and of Iohn that leaned vpon Christs brest But that this grosse and corporall coniunction is not of it selfe profitable and healthsome Iu●●● may be a witnesse who was no lesse corporally ioyned with him then the rest when he betraied him with a kisse and the Iewes which buffited him with fistes and scourged him with roddes so that if so be they had wholy deuoured that sacred body and drunk the blood that flowed from it yet could they not haue obteined saluation thereby and euen so no more could we neither be saued though we did in such wise deuoure his flesh as that it might be corporally and indéed present in vs. My fleshe profiteth nothing saith Christ namely being so taken The woords which I speake vnto you are spirit and life Finally the coniunction wherby the faithful are héere ioyned with Christ shal one day be perfected in the heauens but not that corporall coniunction for euery man shal haue both his owne body and his own soule seperated from others but spirituall of which we wil speak anon To what purpose is it then so greatly to vrge this bodily coniunction whereupon yet if there were any our saluation dependeth not and we were alwaies still to séeke an other which alone is properly necessary to saluation for otherwise what shall become of the fathers that died before Christ was borne for why they could not corporally eat the body of christ which was not as yet come into the worlde neither could they bodily be ioyned with him and yet they did eate the same meate that we doo and dranck the same drinck as saith the Apostle and they were truely healthfullye