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that_o it_o be_v a_o needless_a task_n to_o repeat_v they_o who_o so_o unanimous_o assert_v the_o sufficiency_n 2._o unalterableness_n and_o perfection_n of_o that_o faith_n which_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o creed_n make_v it_o the_o sum_n of_o all_o necessary_a doctrine_n the_o foundation_n of_o the_o catholic_n faith_n and_o of_o the_o church_n the_o first_o and_o sole_a confession_n of_o evangelical_n doctrine_n of_o all_o which_o and_o many_o more_o expression_n to_o the_o same_o purpose_n produce_v not_o only_o by_o our_o writer_n but_o by_o you_o too_o no_o tolerable_a sense_n can_v be_v make_v without_o assert_v that_o whatever_o be_v judge_v necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v by_o all_o by_o the_o catholic_n church_n of_o that_o age_n they_o live_v in_o or_o before_o they_o be_v therein_o contain_v beside_o what_o account_n can_v be_v give_v why_o any_o such_o summary_n of_o faith_n shall_v at_o all_o be_v make_v either_o by_o apostle_n or_o apostolical_a person_n but_o only_o 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all_o time_n and_o in_o all_o place_n by_o such_o who_o be_v member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n 2._o that_o none_o ever_o oppose_v it_o but_o he_o be_v present_o disow_v as_o no_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n because_o oppose_v something_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n 3._o that_o it_o be_v deliver_v by_o all_o those_o writer_n of_o the_o church_n who_o give_v a_o account_n of_o the_o faith_n of_o christian_n or_o what_o be_v deliver_v by_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n to_o the_o church_n 4._o that_o it_o be_v not_o bare_o look_v on_o as_o necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v by_o such_o as_o may_v be_v convince_v it_o be_v of_o divine_a revelation_n but_o that_o it_o be_v deliver_v with_o a_o necessity_n of_o its_o be_v explicit_o believe_v by_o all_o 5._o that_o what_o be_v deliver_v by_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o writer_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n be_v undoubted_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o church_n of_o those_o age_n 6._o that_o all_o those_o writer_n agree_v 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yet_o believe_v something_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n which_o be_v not_o contain_v therein_o when_o you_o or_o any_o one_o else_o will_v undertake_v to_o make_v good_a these_o condition_n i_o shall_v then_o begin_v to_o believe_v that_o something_o may_v be_v make_v appear_v to_o be_v a_o necessary_a article_n of_o faith_n which_o be_v not_o clear_o reveal_v in_o scripture_n but_o not_o before_o but_o till_o then_o this_o negative_a will_v suffice_v that_o nothing_o ought_v to_o be_v embrace_v as_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n concern_v a_o necessary_a article_n of_o faith_n but_o what_o appear_v to_o be_v clear_o reveal_v in_o scriture_n and_o universal_o embrace_v by_o the_o catholic_n church_n of_o all_o age_n 3._o nothing_o ought_v to_o be_v look_v on_o as_o a_o necessary_a article_n of_o faith_n by_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n the_o denial_n of_o which_o be_v not_o universal_o oppose_v and_o condemn_v as_o heresy_n for_o otherwise_o the_o 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and_o the_o universal_a opposition_n of_o any_o new_a doctrine_n on_o it_o fir_v appearance_n and_o the_o condemn_v the_o broacher_n of_o it_o for_o heresy_n in_o ecumenical_a council_n with_o the_o continual_a disapprobation_n of_o those_o doctrine_n by_o the_o christian_a church_n of_o all_o age_n as_o be_v clear_a in_o the_o case_n of_o arrius_n and_o pelagius_n for_o it_o seem_v very_o reasonable_a to_o judge_v that_o since_o the_o necessary_a article_n of_o faith_n be_v all_o deliver_v by_o the_o apostle_n to_o the_o catholic_n church_n since_o the_o foundation_n of_o that_o church_n lie_v in_o the_o belief_n of_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v necessary_a that_o nothing_o shall_v be_v deliver_v contrary_a to_o any_o necessary_a article_n of_o faith_n but_o the_o church_n by_o some_o evident_a act_n must_v declare_v its_o dislike_n of_o it_o and_o its_o resolution_n thereby_o to_o adhere_v to_o that_o necessary_a doctrine_n which_o be_v once_o deliver_v to_o the_o saint_n and_o withal_o it_o seem_v reasonable_a that_o because_o art_n and_o subtilty_n may_v be_v use_v by_o such_o who_o seek_v to_o pervert_v the_o catholic_n doctrine_n and_o to_o wrest_v the_o plain_a place_n of_o scripture_n which_o deliver_v it_o so_o far_o from_o their_o proper_a meaning_n that_o very_o few_o ordinary_a capacity_n may_v be_v able_a to_o clear_v themselves_o of_o such_o mist_n as_o be_v cast_v before_o their_o eye_n the_o sense_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n in_o succeed_a age_n may_v be_v a_o very_a useful_a way_n for_o we_o to_o embrace_v the_o true_a sense_n of_o scripture_n especial_o in_o the_o great_a article_n of_o the_o christian_a faith_n as_o for_o instance_n in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o deity_n of_o christ_n or_o the_o trinity_n though_o the_o subtlety_n of_o such_o modern_a heretic_n who_o oppose_v either_o of_o these_o may_v so_o far_o prevail_v on_o person_n either_o not_o of_o sufficient_a
you_o can_v attribute_v this_o title_n to_o it_o for_o otherwise_o you_o will_v find_v that_o marvellous_o true_a which_o the_o same_o tostatus_n say_v ecclesia_fw-la latinorum_n non_fw-la est_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la vniversalis_fw-la sed_fw-la quaedam_fw-la pars_fw-la ejus_fw-la 2._o ideò_fw-la etiamsi_fw-la tota_fw-la ipsa_fw-la errâsset_fw-la non_fw-la errabat_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la vniversalis_fw-la quia_fw-la manet_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la vniversalis_fw-la in_o partibus_fw-la illis_fw-la quae_fw-la non_fw-la errant_a sive_fw-la illae_fw-la sint_fw-la numero_fw-la plures_fw-la quam_fw-la errantes_fw-la sive_fw-la non_fw-la so_o that_o if_o you_o prove_v the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n this_o prove_v nothing_o at_o all_o as_o to_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o at_o most_o can_v be_v suppose_v to_o be_v but_o a_o part_n of_o it_o and_o though_o that_o shall_v err_v the_o catholic_n church_n may_v not_o err_v because_o that_o remain_v in_o those_o part_n which_o err_v not_o though_o they_o be_v more_o or_o less_o in_o number_n then_o those_o that_o err_v this_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o his_o word_n who_o seem_v to_o have_v a_o much_o true_a conception_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n than_o those_o now_o of_o your_o sect_n and_o party_n if_o then_o we_o may_v believe_v the_o church_n to_o be_v infallible_a and_o yet_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n condemn_v your_o church_n for_o the_o gross_a error_n will_v it_o not_o be_v find_v necessary_a for_o you_o to_o tell_v we_o yet_o more_o distinct_o what_o you_o mean_v by_o the_o church_n you_o will_v prove_v infallible_a but_o suppose_v that_o only_o those_o part_n you_o esteem_v catholic_n make_v up_o the_o catholic_n church_n even_o among_o they_o the_o question_n will_v still_o return_v what_o you_o mean_v by_o this_o catholic_n church_n do_v you_o mean_v all_o the_o individual_a person_n in_o this_o number_n take_v either_o distributive_o or_o collective_o or_o do_v you_o mean_v all_o those_o who_o be_v entrust_v with_o the_o government_n of_o these_o and_o then_o whether_o all_o inferior_a pastor_n or_o only_a bishop_n and_o if_o bishop_n whether_o all_o these_o collective_o or_o else_o by_o way_n of_o representation_n in_o a_o council_n and_o still_o remember_v to_o make_v it_o good_a that_o what_o you_o pitch_v upon_o as_o the_o acception_n of_o the_o church_n be_v not_o a_o effect_n of_o humane_a policy_n as_o albertus_n pighius_fw-la say_v all_o council_n be_v no_o more_o but_o that_o what_o you_o fasten_v the_o acception_n of_o the_o church-catholick_n upon_o you_o be_v sure_a to_o make_v it_o out_o that_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n to_o who_o the_o promise_n be_v make_v in_o scripture_n and_o be_v sure_a to_o tell_v we_o how_o a_o church_n come_v to_o be_v infallible_a by_o representation_n whether_o as_o they_o who_o make_v the_o church_n representative_a deliver_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n they_o represent_v or_o by_o a_o immediate_a promise_n make_v to_o they_o upon_o their_o convention_n if_o the_o former_a whether_o it_o will_v not_o be_v necessary_a in_o order_n to_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o council_n to_o know_v that_o it_o speak_v the_o sense_n of_o all_o those_o particular_a church_n who_o they_o represent_v if_o the_o latter_a you_o must_v remember_v such_o place_n as_o belong_v to_o they_o as_o represent_v the_o church_n for_o otherwise_o any_o company_n of_o christian_n assemble_v together_o will_v challenge_v a_o equal_a interest_n in_o they_o and_o than_o you_o will_v find_v it_o a_o hard_a matter_n to_o prove_v one_o infallible_a and_o not_o the_o other_o but_o if_o after_o all_o this_o your_o windmill_n shall_v dwindle_v into_o a_o nutcracker_n and_o this_o harangue_n concern_v the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n shall_v at_o last_o end_n in_o one_o particular_a person_n which_o by_o a_o strange_a catachresis_fw-la must_v be_v call_v the_o church_n or_o else_o as_o heir_n at_o law_n to_o she_o do_v take_v possession_n of_o all_o her_o privilege_n then_o the_o testament_n must_v be_v produce_v wherein_o he_o be_v name_v so_o and_o those_o clause_n especial_o wherein_o the_o right_n and_o privilege_n of_o she_o be_v devolve_v over_o to_o he_o and_o his_o heir_n for_o ever_o there_o be_v then_o so_o much_o ambiguity_n and_o uncertainty_n in_o the_o very_a name_n of_o the_o church-catholick_n which_o you_o will_v prove_v infallible_a that_o if_o nothing_o else_o discover_v your_o imposture_n yet_o this_o will_v sufficient_o that_o you_o will_v undertake_v to_o resolve_v man_n faith_n by_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n and_o yet_o never_o offer_v to_o show_v what_o that_o church_n be_v 2._o suppose_v you_o have_v show_v what_o the_o church_n be_v yet_o you_o never_o tell_v we_o what_o the_o subject_n of_o infallibility_n be_v in_o that_o church_n for_o when_o in_o this_o case_n you_o speak_v of_o infallibility_n you_o must_v remember_v you_o be_v not_o to_o show_v what_o that_o church_n be_v which_o be_v not_o deceive_v in_o judge_v concern_v thing_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n but_o what_o that_o church_n be_v which_o be_v infallible_a in_o her_o direction_n of_o other_o to_o salvation_n for_o you_o speak_v of_o such_o a_o infallibility_n as_o must_v be_v a_o guide_n to_o other_o and_o who_o infallible_a judgement_n must_v be_v know_v to_o all_o such_o who_o must_v resolve_v their_o faith_n into_o her_o testimony_n you_o will_v have_v do_v then_o no_o more_o than_o be_v absolute_o necessary_a to_o have_v precise_o show_v we_o where_o this_o infallibility_n be_v lodge_v in_o your_o church_n whether_o in_o pope_n or_o council_n or_o both_o together_o i_o suppose_v it_o can_v be_v no_o news_n either_o to_o you_o or_o to_o the_o reader_n what_o controversy_n there_o be_v among_o the_o great_a of_o your_o side_n whether_o the_o pope_n or_o council_n be_v the_o great_a and_o to_o who_o this_o infallibility_n belong_v neither_o be_v either_o side_n full_o agree_v 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neither_o of_o these_o necessary_a but_o suppose_v the_o infallibility_n lodge_v in_o the_o pope_n himself_o and_o be_v we_o not_o at_o a_o fine_a pass_n for_o the_o certainty_n of_o our_o faith_n if_o it_o must_v rely_v upon_o the_o infallible_a testimony_n of_o your_o church_n and_o yet_o you_o yourselves_o not_o at_o all_o agree_v to_o who_o this_o infallible_a testimony_n do_v belong_v think_v not_o that_o we_o will_v be_v put_v off_o with_o that_o silly_a evasion_n that_o these_o difference_n among_o you_o hinder_v not_o the_o certainty_n of_o faith_n because_o it_o be_v not_o the_o fide_fw-la either_o way_n for_o 1._o how_o shall_v we_o come_v to_o know_v among_o you_o what_o be_v de_fw-fr fide_fw-la and_o what_o not_o till_o you_o be_v agree_v to_o who_o this_o infallibility_n belong_v and_o if_o it_o belong_v to_o a_o general_a council_n than_o it_o be_v de_fw-fr fide_fw-la for_o it_o be_v determine_v at_o the_o council_n of_o basil_n in_o behalf_n of_o the_o council_n and_o 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church_n
reason_n for_o i_o look_v upon_o all_o these_o assertion_n to_o serve_v you_o in_o no_o other_o capacity_n than_o as_o excursion_n from_o the_o matter_n in_o hand_n and_o therefore_o i_o shall_v not_o gratify_v you_o so_o far_o as_o particular_o to_o examine_v they_o for_o all_o than_o that_o have_v be_v yet_o produce_v by_o you_o his_o lordship_n argument_n remain_v good_a that_o according_a to_o your_o principle_n the_o church_n testimony_n must_v be_v make_v the_o formal_a object_n of_o faith_n and_o i_o be_o the_o more_o confirm_v in_o it_o by_o the_o weakness_n of_o your_o evasion_n and_o i_o hope_v i_o have_v now_o make_v good_a those_o word_n which_o you_o challenge_v his_o lordship_n for_o that_o it_o be_v no_o hard_a thing_n to_o prove_v it_o the_o next_o absurdity_n charge_v upon_o you_o by_o his_o lordship_n be_v 19_o that_o all_o the_o authority_n of_o father_n council_n nay_o of_o scripture_n too_o 62._o must_v be_v final_o resolve_v into_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o present_a roman_a church_n and_o though_o they_o will_v seem_v to_o have_v we_o believe_v the_o father_n and_o the_o church_n of_o old_a yet_o they_o will_v not_o have_v we_o take_v their_o doctrine_n from_o their_o own_o write_n or_o the_o decree_n of_o council_n because_o as_o they_o say_v we_o can_v know_v by_o read_v they_o what_o their_o meaning_n be_v but_o from_o the_o infallible_a testimony_n of_o the_o present_a roman_a church_n teach_v by_o tradition_n and_o this_o he_o tell_v you_o be_v the_o cunning_a of_o this_o devise_n to_o which_o you_o answer_v by_o what_o have_v be_v say_v it_o appear_v that_o there_o be_v no_o device_n or_o cunning_n at_o all_o either_o in_o take_v away_o any_o thing_n due_a to_o the_o father_n 61._o council_n or_o scripture_n or_o in_o give_v too_o much_o to_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o present_a church_n for_o we_o acknowledge_v all_o due_a respect_n to_o the_o father_n and_o as_o much_o to_o speak_v modest_o as_o any_o of_o our_o adversary_n 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the_o question_n be_v suppose_v your_o church_n testimony_n to_o be_v infallible_a without_o which_o we_o can_v have_v no_o assurance_n of_o what_o father_n scripture_n and_o council_n say_v what_o authority_n remain_v among_o you_o to_o any_o or_o all_o of_o these_o and_o it_o be_v not_o what_o respect_n you_o tell_v we_o you_o give_v they_o for_o you_o may_v as_o easy_o speak_v as_o believe_v contradiction_n but_o what_o be_v real_o leave_v to_o they_o if_o your_o opinion_n concern_v the_o present_a church_n infallibility_n be_v true_a and_o he_o that_o can_v see_v the_o cunning_a of_o this_o device_n of_o resolve_v all_o into_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o present_a roman_a church_n will_v never_o understand_v the_o interest_n of_o your_o church_n but_o it_o seem_v you_o apprehend_v it_o so_o much_o as_o not_o to_o seem_v to_o do_v it_o and_o have_v too_o much_o cunning_n to_o confess_v it_o but_o this_o must_v not_o be_v so_o easy_o pass_v over_o this_o be_v one_o of_o the_o 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definition_n depend_v on_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o father_n no_o you_o tell_v we_o she_o be_v supernatural_o assist_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o if_o so_o i_o suppose_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o father_n be_v not_o that_o which_o she_o rely_v on_o but_o it_o may_v be_v you_o will_v say_v this_o supernatural_a assistance_n direct_v the_o church_n to_o that_o which_o be_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o father_n in_o all_o age_n this_o be_v something_o indeed_o if_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v but_o then_o i_o will_v never_o read_v the_o father_n to_o know_v what_o their_o mind_n be_v but_o ask_v your_o church_n what_o they_o mean_v and_o though_o your_o church_n deliver_v that_o as_o their_o sense_n which_o be_v as_o opposite_a as_o may_v be_v both_o to_o their_o word_n and_o judgement_n yet_o this_o be_v part_n of_o the_o respect_n due_a to_o they_o not_o to_o believe_v whatever_o they_o say_v themselves_o but_o what_o your_o church_n tell_v we_o they_o say_v a_o most_o compendious_a way_n for_o interpret_n father_n and_o make_v they_o sure_o not_o to_o speak_v any_o thing_n against_o your_o church_n therefore_o i_o can_v but_o commend_v the_o ingenuity_n of_o cornelius_n mussus_n the_o bishop_n of_o bitonto_n who_o speak_v that_o out_o which_o more_o wary_a man_n be_v content_v only_o to_o think_v ego_fw-la ut_fw-la ingenuè_fw-fr fatear_fw-la plus_fw-la uni_fw-la summo_fw-la pontitifici_fw-la crediderim_fw-la in_o his_o quae_fw-la mysteria_fw-la fidei_fw-la tangunt_fw-la quam_fw-la mille_fw-la augustinis_fw-la hieronymis_fw-la gregoriis_fw-la that_o i_o may_v deal_v free_o say_v he_o i_o will_v soon_o believe_v the_o pope_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n rom._n than_o a_o thousand_o augustine_n hieromes_n and_o gregory_n brave_o say_v and_o like_o a_o man_n that_o do_v hearty_o believe_v the_o pope_n infallibility_n and_o yet_o no_o more_o than_o every_o one_o will_v be_v force_v to_o do_v that_o understand_v the_o consequence_n of_o his_o own_o principle_n and_o therefore_o alphonsus_n à _fw-fr castro_n be_v not_o to_o be_v blame_v for_o prefer_v a_o epistle_n of_o anacletus_fw-la though_o counterfeit_a because_o pope_n before_o augustine_n hierome_n episcopus_fw-la or_o any_o other_o however_o holy_a or_o learned_a these_o man_n understand_v themselves_o and_o the_o interest_n of_o their_o church_n and_o although_o the_o rest_n of_o they_o make_v fine_a leg_n to_o the_o father_n than_o these_o do_v yet_o when_o they_o seem_v to_o cross_v their_o way_n and_o entrench_v upon_o their_o church_n they_o find_v not_o much_o kind_a entertainment_n for_o they_o we_o may_v guess_v at_o the_o rest_n by_o two_o of_o they_o man_n of_o great_a note_n in_o their_o several_a way_n the_o one_o for_o controversy_n the_o other_o for_o his_o commentary_n viz._n bellarmine_n and_o maldonate_fw-it and_o let_v we_o see_v when_o occasion_n serve_v how_o rude_o they_o handle_v the_o father_n if_o s._n cyprian_n speak_v against_o tradition_n it_o 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scripture_n and_o consequent_o the_o resolution_n of_o our_o faith_n as_o to_o god_n and_o christ_n and_o proportionable_o as_o to_o other_o object_n to_o be_v believe_v be_v not_o into_o any_o tradition_n pretend_v to_o be_v derive_v from_o the_o apostle_n but_o into_o the_o scripture_n themselves_o which_o by_o this_o discourse_n evident_o appear_v to_o have_v be_v the_o judgement_n of_o irenaeus_n magnum_fw-la the_o next_o which_o follow_v be_v clemens_n of_o alexandria_n who_o flourish_v a._n d._n 196._o who_o st._n hierome_n account_v the_o most_o learned_a of_o all_o the_o writer_n of_o the_o church_n and_o therefore_o can_v be_v suppose_v ignorant_a in_o so_o necessary_a a_o part_n of_o the_o christian_a doctrine_n as_o the_o resolution_n of_o faith_n be_v and_o if_o his_o judgement_n may_v be_v take_v the_o scripture_n be_v the_o only_a certain_a foundation_n of_o faith_n for_o in_o his_o admonition_n to_o the_o gentile_n after_o he_o have_v with_o a_o great_a deal_n of_o excellent_a learning_n deride_v the_o heathen_a superstition_n when_o he_o come_v to_o give_v a_o account_n of_o the_o christian_n faith_n he_o begin_v it_o with_o this_o pregnant_a testimony_n to_o our_o purpose_n for_o say_v he_o the_o sacred_a oracle_n afford_v we_o the_o most_o manifest_a ground_n of_o divine_a worship_n paris_n be_v the_o foundation_n of_o truth_n and_o so_o go_v on_o in_o a_o high_a commendation_n of_o the_o scripture_n as_o the_o most_o compendious_a direction_n for_o happiness_n the_o best_a institution_n for_o government_n of_o life_n the_o most_o free_a from_o all_o vain_a ornament_n that_o they_o raise_v man_n soul_n up_o out_o of_o wickedness_n yield_v the_o most_o excellent_a remedy_n dissuade_v from_o the_o great_a deceit_n and_o most_o clear_o encourage_v to_o a_o foresee_a happiness_n with_o more_o of_o the_o same_o nature_n and_o when_o after_o he_o persuade_v man_n with_o so_o much_o rhetoric_n and_o
reformation_n vindicate_v the_o particular_a case_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n discuss_v the_o proceed_n in_o our_o reformation_n defend_v the_o church_n of_o england_n a_o true_a church_n the_o national_a synod_n 1562._o a_o lawful_a synod_n the_o bishop_n no_o intruder_n in_o queen_n elizabeth_n time_n the_o justice_n and_o moderation_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n in_o her_o reformation_n the_o pope_n power_n here_o a_o forcible_a fraudulent_a usurpation_n have_v thus_o far_o examine_v your_o doctrine_n of_o keep_v faith_n with_o heretic_n 1._o we_o now_o return_v to_o the_o main_a business_n concern_v schism_n and_o his_o lordship_n say_v 22._o that_o there_o be_v difference_n between_o departure_n out_o of_o the_o church_n and_o causeless_o thrust_v from_o you_o and_o therefore_o deny_v that_o it_o be_v in_o your_o power_n to_o thrust_v we_o out_o of_o the_o church_n you_o answer_v by_o a_o concession_n that_o we_o be_v thrust_v out_o from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o that_o it_o be_v not_o without_o cause_n which_o 1._o that_o you_o may_v not_o seem_v to_o say_v gratis_o you_o pretend_v to_o assign_v the_o cause_n of_o our_o expulsion_n so_o that_o by_o your_o own_o confession_n the_o present_a division_n or_o separation_n lie_v at_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n door_n if_o it_o be_v not_o make_v evident_a that_o there_o be_v most_o just_a and_o sufficient_a reason_n for_o she_o cast_v the_o protestant_n out_o of_o her_o communion_n if_o therefore_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v thrust_v the_o protestant_n from_o her_o communion_n for_o do_v nothing_o but_o what_o become_v they_o as_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n then_o that_o must_v be_v the_o schismatical_a party_n and_o not_o the_o protestant_n for_o suppose_v any_o church_n though_o pretend_v to_o be_v never_o so_o catholic_n do_v restrain_v her_o communion_n within_o such_o narrow_a and_o unjust_a bound_n that_o she_o declare_v such_o excommunicate_a who_o do_v not_o approve_v all_o such_o error_n in_o doctrine_n and_o corruption_n in_o practice_n which_o the_o communion_n of_o such_o a_o church_n may_v be_v liable_a to_o the_o cause_n of_o that_o division_n which_o follow_v fall_v upon_o that_o church_n which_o exact_v those_o condition_n from_o the_o member_n of_o her_o communion_n that_o iâ—_n when_o the_o error_n and_o corruption_n be_v such_o as_o be_v dangerous_a to_o salvation_n for_o in_o this_o case_n that_o church_n have_v first_o divide_v herself_o from_o the_o catholic_n church_n for_o the_o communion_n of_o that_o lie_a open_a and_o free_a to_o all_o upon_o the_o necessary_a condition_n of_o christian_a communion_n whatever_o church_n take_v upon_o she_o to_o limit_v and_o enclose_v the_o bound_n of_o the_o catholic_n become_v thereby_o divide_v from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o all_o such_o who_o disow_v such_o a_o unjust_a enclosure_n do_v not_o so_o much_o divide_v from_o the_o communion_n of_o that_o church_n so_o enclose_v as_o return_v to_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o primitive_a and_o universal_a church_n the_o catholic_n church_n therefore_o lie_v open_a and_o free_a like_o a_o common-field_n to_o all_o inhabitant_n now_o if_o any_o particular_a number_n of_o these_o inhabitant_n shall_v agree_v together_o to_o enclose_v part_n of_o it_o without_o consent_n of_o the_o rest_n and_o not_o to_o admit_v any_o other_o to_o their_o right_n of_o common_a without_o consent_v to_o it_o which_o of_o these_o two_o party_n those_o who_o deny_v to_o yield_v their_o consent_n or_o such_o who_o deny_v their_o right_n if_o they_o will_v not_o be_v guilty_a of_o the_o violation_n of_o the_o public_a and_o common_a right_n of_o the_o place_n now_o this_o be_v plain_o the_o case_n between_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o we_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n lie_v open_a to_o all_o such_o who_o own_o the_o fundamental_o of_o christian_a faith_n and_o be_v willing_a to_o join_v in_o the_o profession_n of_o they_o now_o to_o these_o your_o church_n add_v many_o particular_a doctrine_n which_o have_v no_o foundation_n in_o scripture_n or_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n these_o and_o many_o superstitious_a practice_n be_v enjoin_v by_o she_o as_o condition_n of_o her_o communion_n so_o that_o all_o those_o be_v debar_v any_o right_n of_o communion_n with_o she_o who_o will_v not_o approve_v of_o they_o by_o which_o it_o appear_v your_o church_n be_v guilty_a of_o the_o first_o violation_n of_o the_o union_n of_o the_o catholic_n and_o whatever_o number_n of_o man_n be_v deprive_v of_o your_o communion_n for_o not_o consent_v to_o your_o usurpation_n do_v not_o divide_v themselves_o from_o you_o any_o further_a than_o you_o have_v first_o separate_v yourselves_o from_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o when_o your_o church_n by_o this_o act_n be_v already_o separate_v from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n the_o disow_n of_o those_o thing_n wherein_o your_o church_n be_v become_v schismatical_a can_v certain_o be_v any_o culpable_a separation_n for_o whatever_o be_v so_o must_v be_v from_o a_o church_n so_o far_o as_o it_o be_v catholic_n but_o in_o our_o case_n it_o be_v from_o a_o church_n so_o far_o only_o as_o it_o be_v not_o catholic_n i._n e._n so_o far_o as_o it_o have_v divide_v herself_o from_o the_o belief_n and_o communion_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n but_o herein_o a_o great_a mistake_n be_v commit_v by_o you_o when_o you_o measure_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n by_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o 2._o or_o most_o of_o the_o particular_a church_n of_o such_o a_o age_n which_o suppose_v that_o the_o church_n of_o some_o one_o particular_a age_n must_v of_o necessity_n be_v preserve_v from_o all_o error_n and_o corruption_n which_o there_o be_v no_o reason_n or_o necessity_n at_o all_o to_o assert_v and_o that_o be_v all_o the_o ground_n you_o have_v for_o say_v 159._o that_o the_o separation_n of_o protestant_n be_v not_o only_o from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o as_o calvin_n confess_v à _fw-la toto_fw-la mundo_fw-la from_o the_o whole_a christian_a world_n and_o such_o a_o separation_n necessary_o involve_v separation_n from_o the_o true_a catholic_n church_n now_o to_o this_o we_o answer_v two_o thing_n 1._o that_o we_o have_v not_o separate_v from_o the_o whole_a christian_a world_n in_o any_o thing_n wherein_o the_o whole_a christian_a world_n be_v agree_v but_o to_o disagree_v from_o the_o particular_a church_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n in_o such_o thing_n wherein_o those_o church_n differ_v among_o themselves_o be_v not_o to_o separate_v from_o the_o christian_a world_n but_o to_o disagree_v in_o some_o thing_n from_o such_o particular_a church_n as_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o say_v that_o man_n be_v divide_v from_o all_o mankind_n who_o do_v in_o some_o feature_n or_o other_o differ_v from_o any_o one_o particular_a man_n but_o although_o he_o do_v so_o he_o do_v not_o differ_v from_o any_o in_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v common_a to_o all_o for_o that_o be_v to_o differ_v from_o all_o but_o when_o he_o only_o differ_v from_o one_o in_o the_o colour_n of_o his_o eye_n from_o another_o in_o his_o complexion_n another_o in_o the_o air_n of_o his_o countenance_n and_o so_o in_o other_o thing_n this_o man_n though_o he_o shall_v differ_v from_o every_o particular_a man_n in_o the_o world_n in_o something_o or_o other_o yet_o be_v a_o man_n still_o as_o well_o as_o any_o because_o he_o agree_v with_o they_o in_o that_o in_o which_o they_o all_o agree_v which_o be_v humane_a nature_n and_o differ_v only_o in_o those_o thing_n wherein_o they_o differ_v from_o each_o other_o and_o therefore_o from_o the_o disagreement_n of_o the_o protestant_n from_o any_o one_o particular_a church_n it_o by_o no_o mean_n follow_v that_o they_o separate_v from_o the_o whole_a christian_a world_n and_o therefore_o from_o the_o true_a catholic_n church_n 2._o the_o communion_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n be_v not_o to_o be_v measure_v by_o the_o particular_a opinion_n and_o practice_n of_o all_o or_o any_o particular_a church_n but_o by_o such_o thing_n which_o be_v the_o proper_a foundation_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n for_o there_o can_v be_v no_o separation_n from_o the_o true_a catholic_n church_n but_o in_o such_o thing_n wherein_o it_o be_v catholic_n now_o it_o be_v not_o catholic_n in_o any_o thing_n but_o what_o proper_o relate_v to_o its_o be_v and_o constitution_n for_o whatever_o else_o there_o be_v however_o universal_a it_o may_v be_v be_v extrinsical_a to_o the_o nature_n and_o notion_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o therefore_o suppose_v a_o separation_n from_o the_o church_n in_o what_o be_v so_o extrinsical_a and_o accidental_a it_o be_v no_o proper_a separation_n from_o the_o catholic_n church_n as_o for_o instance_n suppose_v all_o man_n be_v agree_v that_o some_o particular_a
first_o occasion_n to_o the_o reformation_n if_o then_o these_o be_v not_o catholick_o receive_v a_o particular_a church_n may_v without_o schism_n reject_v they_o and_o so_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v sufficient_o vindicate_v from_o schism_n by_o yourself_o as_o to_o these_o point_n here_o mention_v which_o you_o willing_o omit_v because_o you_o can_v not_o but_o know_v how_o far_o they_o be_v from_o be_v universal_o receive_v in_o all_o church_n in_o christendom_n 2._o as_o to_o those_o thing_n which_o you_o insist_v on_o you_o give_v no_o sufficient_a evidence_n at_o all_o that_o they_o be_v receive_v by_o the_o whole_a church_n as_o catholic_n doctrine_n for_o so_o far_o it_o be_v from_o appear_v that_o these_o be_v hold_v as_o catholic_n doctrine_n by_o all_o church_n in_o the_o christian_a world_n for_o then_o you_o do_v most_o unreasonable_o condemn_v the_o greek_a and_o abyssine_a church_n etc._n etc._n for_o heresy_n or_o schism_n if_o they_o own_v all_o catholic_n doctrine_n and_o they_o must_v do_v so_o if_o they_o agree_v with_o your_o church_n in_o all_o these_o thing_n which_o be_v the_o only_a doctrine_n you_o mention_v as_o catholic_n in_o opposition_n to_o such_o who_o you_o condemn_v for_o heresy_n or_o schism_n and_o if_o the_o agreement_n of_o all_o church_n be_v the_o measure_n of_o what_o be_v catholic_n then_o those_o doctrine_n can_v be_v so_o which_o those_o great_a church_n differ_v from_o you_o in_o by_o your_o own_o argument_n but_o so_o far_o be_v it_o i_o say_v from_o appear_v that_o these_o be_v hold_v so_o by_o all_o church_n in_o christendom_n that_o you_o can_v prove_v they_o be_v so_o hold_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n herself_o before_o the_o reformation_n the_o church_n of_o rome_n i_o take_v here_o in_o the_o large_a sense_n as_o it_o take_v in_o all_o such_o who_o be_v the_o visible_a member_n of_o her_o communion_n now_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o say_v that_o such_o doctrine_n be_v receive_v as_o catholic_n doctrine_n which_o be_v embrace_v only_o by_o a_o party_n in_o your_o church_n another_o party_n oppose_v it_o both_o which_o still_o remain_v member_n of_o your_o communion_n for_o whatever_o be_v receive_v as_o a_o catholic_n doctrine_n according_a to_o you_o be_v so_o receive_v that_o those_o who_o deny_v or_o doubt_v of_o it_o do_v thereby_o become_v no_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a communion_n of_o that_o church_n which_o be_v by_o the_o church_n so_o declare_v herself_o in_o those_o point_n that_o she_o admit_v none_o to_o her_o communion_n but_o upon_o the_o acknowledgement_n of_o they_o now_o will_v you_o say_v this_o be_v the_o case_n of_o your_o church_n as_o to_o these_o doctrine_n at_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o reformation_n be_v transubstantiation_n real_a sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n veneration_n of_o image_n invocation_n of_o saint_n purgatory_n etc._n etc._n so_o define_v then_o by_o your_o church_n to_o be_v article_n of_o faith_n that_o whoever_o do_v not_o assent_v to_o they_o be_v declare_v excommunicate_a and_o cast_v out_o of_o your_o church_n if_o not_o it_o be_v impossible_a upon_o your_o own_o ground_n to_o prove_v that_o these_o be_v universal_o hold_v and_o believe_v as_o catholic_n doctrine_n of_o your_o church_n i_o do_v not_o say_v as_o true_o catholic_n doctrine_n in_o themselves_o for_o whatever_o your_o church_n define_v concern_v they_o they_o be_v not_o more_o or_o less_o so_o in_o themselves_o for_o your_o church_n definition_n but_o i_o say_v you_o can_v assert_v that_o these_o be_v hold_v by_o your_o church_n to_o be_v catholic_n doctrine_n till_o they_o be_v define_v to_o be_v such_o for_o according_a to_o your_o principle_n that_o which_o difference_v a_o catholic_n doctrine_n from_o a_o particular_a opinion_n be_v the_o church_n definition_n before_o then_o the_o church_n have_v pass_v a_o definition_n in_o these_o point_n they_o can_v not_o be_v hold_v as_o catholic_n doctrine_n to_o make_v this_o somewhat_o clear_a 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allow_v the_o supreme_a ministerial_a authority_n to_o be_v in_o the_o pope_n which_o be_v all_o your_o citation_n prove_v yet_o the_o radical_a and_o intrinsical_v power_n lie_v in_o the_o church_n which_o be_v represent_v in_o a_o general_n council_n may_v depose_v the_o pope_n from_o his_o authority_n in_o the_o church_n and_o the_o truth_n be_v this_o opinion_n of_o gerson_n make_v the_o fundamental_a power_n of_o the_o church_n to_o be_v democratical_a and_o that_o the_o supreme_a exercise_n be_v by_o representative_n in_o a_o general_n council_n and_o that_o the_o pope_n at_o the_o high_a be_v but_o a_o ministerial_a and_o accountable_a head_n and_o therefore_o spalatensis_n true_o observe_v that_o this_o opinion_n of_o gerson_n which_o be_v the_o same_o with_o that_o of_o the_o paris_n divine_v of_o which_o he_o speak_v do_v only_o in_o word_n attribute_v supreme_a ecclesiastical_a jurisdiction_n to_o the_o pope_n 5._o but_o in_o reality_n it_o take_v it_o quite_o away_o from_o he_o and_o this_o be_v the_o same_o doctrine_n which_o then_o prevail_v in_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n and_o afterward_o at_o basil_n as_o may_v be_v see_v at_o large_a in_o their_o synodical_a epistle_n defend_v by_o richerius_n vigorius_n and_o other_o now_o let_v any_o man_n of_o reason_n judge_n whether_o notwithstanding_o your_o charge_n of_o false_a citation_n from_o some_o expression_n intimate_v only_o a_o ministerial_a headship_n his_o lordship_n do_v not_o very_o pertinent_o cite_v this_o tract_n of_o gerson_n to_o prove_v that_o no_o mean_a person_n do_v think_v the_o church_n militant_a not_o to_o be_v govern_v by_o a_o monarchical_a but_o by_o a_o aristocratical_a or_o mix_a government_n but_o no_o soon_o be_v this_o marginal_a citation_n clear_v but_o the_o charge_n be_v renew_v about_o another_o 13._o 222._o viz._n st._n hierom_n yet_o here_o you_o dare_v not_o charge_v his_o lordship_n with_o a_o false_a allegation_n but_o you_o be_v put_v to_o your_o shift_n to_o get_v off_o this_o testimony_n as_o well_o as_o you_o can_v for_o st._n hierom_n say_v express_o in_o his_o epistle_n to_o evagrius_n ubicunque_fw-la fuerit_fw-la episcopus_fw-la sive_fw-la romae_fw-la sive_fw-la eugubii_n sive_fw-la constantinopoli_fw-it sive_fw-la rhegii_fw-la etc._n etc._n ejusdem_fw-la meriti_fw-la est_fw-la ejusdem_fw-la est_fw-la &_o sacerdotii_fw-la his_o lordship_n may_v well_o infer_v that_o doubtless_o he_o think_v not_o of_o the_o roman_a bishop_n monarchy_n for_o what_o bishop_n say_v he_o be_v of_o the_o same_o merit_n or_o the_o same_o degree_n in_o the_o priesthood_n with_o the_o pope_n as_o thing_n be_v now_o carry_v at_o rome_n to_o this_o you_o answer_v that_o he_o speak_v not_o of_o the_o pope_n as_o he_o be_v pope_n or_o in_o respect_n of_o that_o eminent_a authority_n which_o belong_v to_o he_o as_o st._n peter_n successor_n but_o only_o compare_v he_o with_o another_o private_a bishop_n in_o respect_n of_o mere_a character_n or_o power_n of_o 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synodical_a epistle_n by_o which_o i_o shall_v prove_v it_o impossible_a that_o either_o the_o letter_n of_o pope_n damasus_n do_v concern_v the_o call_n of_o the_o ecumenical_a council_n or_o that_o the_o sit_v of_o the_o council_n at_o rome_n and_o the_o general_n one_o at_o constantinople_n can_v be_v at_o the_o same_o time_n the_o first_o be_v from_o the_o date_n of_o those_o letter_n which_o be_v thus_o express_v there_o that_o they_o meet_v together_o at_o constantinople_n have_v receive_v the_o letter_n which_o be_v send_v the_o year_n before_o from_o they_o to_o the_o emperor_n theodosius_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d after_o the_o synod_n at_o aquileia_n 80._o now_o the_o synod_n at_o aquileia_n by_o baronius_n his_o computation_n be_v hold_v the_o same_o year_n a._n d._n 381._o in_o which_o the_o ecumenical_a council_n at_o constantinople_n be_v hold_v and_o much_o late_a in_o the_o year_n too_o for_o this_o be_v hold_v in_o the_o nones_n of_o september_n 682._o and_o the_o 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that_o this_o council_n assemble_v upon_o the_o letter_n of_o damasus_n to_o theodosius_n and_o sit_v with_o the_o council_n at_o rome_n be_v clear_o distinct_a from_o the_o ecumenical_a council_n of_o constantinople_n and_o thus_o i_o hope_v i_o have_v dispel_v those_o mist_n which_o you_o will_v cast_v before_o the_o reader_n eye_n by_o confound_v these_o two_o council_n and_o thereby_o offer_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o pope_n have_v some_o kind_n of_o very_o remote_a presidency_n in_o the_o second_o general_n council_n which_o be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v true_a that_o there_o be_v not_o any_o intimation_n in_o any_o of_o the_o ancient_a historian_n theodoret_n socrates_n or_o sozomen_n that_o the_o pope_n or_o any_o of_o the_o western_a bishop_n have_v any_o thing_n at_o all_o to_o do_v in_o it_o but_o you_o will_v ask_v how_o come_v it_o then_o to_o be_v account_v a_o ecumenical_a council_n for_o this_o indeed_o baronius_n will_v fain_o find_v out_o some_o hand_n that_o damasus_n 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express_v that_o damasus_n do_v summon_v the_o council_n at_o constantinople_n be_v not_o to_o be_v take_v against_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o ancient_a church-historian_n it_o be_v well_o know_v what_o interess_n those_o roman_a copy_n have_v a_o long_a time_n drive_v on_o i_o deny_v not_o therefore_o but_o that_o the_o council_n of_o constantinople_n be_v assent_v to_o by_o damasus_n and_o the_o western_a bishop_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o faith_n there_o decide_v but_o i_o utter_o deny_v that_o damasus_n have_v any_o thing_n to_o do_v in_o the_o presidency_n over_o that_o council_n so_o that_o we_o find_v a_o council_n always_o acknowledge_v to_o be_v ecumenical_a in_o which_o the_o pope_n have_v no_o presidency_n at_o all_o and_o this_o very_a instance_n sufficient_o refute_v your_o hypothesis_n viz._n that_o the_o pope_n presidency_n be_v necessary_a to_o a_o general_n council_n in_o the_o three_o general_n council_n hold_v at_o ephesus_n a._n d._n 431._o it_o be_v agree_v on_o both_o side_n that_o s._n cyril_n patriarch_n of_o alexandria_n be_v the_o precedent_n of_o it_o 8._o but_o the_o question_n be_v in_o what_o capacity_n he_o sit_v there_o whether_o in_o his_o own_o or_o as_o legate_n of_o celestine_n bishop_n of_o rome_n all_o the_o proof_n you_o produce_v for_o the_o latter_a be_v that_o it_o appear_v by_o a_o letter_n write_v to_o he_o by_o the_o pope_n long_o before_o he_o send_v any_o other_o legate_n to_o that_o council_n 232._o in_o which_o letter_n he_o give_v s._n cyril_n charge_v to_o supply_v his_o place_n as_o be_v testify_v by_o evagâ—ius_n prosper_n photius_n and_o divers_a other_o author_n but_o here_o again_o you_o offer_v to_o confound_v two_o thing_n which_o be_v of_o a_o distinct_a nature_n for_o you_o will_v have_v your_o reader_n believe_v that_o this_o letter_n be_v send_v by_o celestine_n to_o cyril_n in_o order_n to_o his_o presidentship_n in_o the_o council_n whereas_o this_o letter_n be_v send_v the_o year_n before_o without_o any_o relation_n to_o the_o council_n as_o appear_v by_o the_o series_n of_o the_o story_n which_o be_v brief_o this_o the_o difference_n in_o the_o eastern_a church_n increase_v about_o the_o opinion_n broach_v by_o nestorius_n s._n cyril_n of_o alexandria_n chief_o appear_v in_o opposition_n to_o they_o they_o both_o write_v much_o about_o the_o same_o time_n to_o pope_n celestine_n impeach_v each_o other_o of_o heresy_n but_o before_o celestine_n have_v read_v the_o letter_n from_o nestorius_n in_o vindication_n of_o himself_o possidonius_fw-la a_o deacon_n of_o alexandria_n come_v with_o several_a dispatch_n from_o s._n cyril_n wherein_o a_o large_a account_n be_v give_v of_o the_o heresy_n and_o action_n of_o nestorius_n upon_o which_o the_o pope_n call_v a_o council_n at_o rome_n and_o therein_o examine_v the_o allegation_n on_o both_o side_n which_o be_v do_v the_o council_n condemn_v nestorius_n and_o pass_v this_o sentence_n on_o he_o that_o ten_o day_n shall_v be_v allow_v he_o after_o notice_n give_v for_o his_o repentance_n and_o in_o case_n of_o obstinacy_n he_o shall_v be_v declare_v excommunicate_a and_o for_o execute_v this_o sentence_n celestine_n commit_v his_o power_n to_o cyril_n not_o as_o though_o it_o belong_v to_o the_o pope_n only_o to_o do_v it_o but_o that_o by_o this_o mean_n there_o may_v appear_v the_o consent_n of_o the_o western_a with_o the_o eastern_a bishop_n in_o put_v nestorius_n out_o of_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n s._n cyril_n have_v receive_v these_o letter_n by_o the_o return_n of_o possidonius_fw-la 24._o date_v the_o three_o of_o the_o ides_n of_o august_n as_o appear_v by_o the_o letter_n extant_a in_o baronius_n call_v a_o council_n at_o alexandria_n in_o which_o four_o legate_n be_v decree_v to_o be_v send_v to_o constantinople_n in_o pursuance_n of_o the_o sentence_n against_o nestorius_n they_o deliver_v the_o letter_n of_o celestine_n and_o cyril_n to_o he_o he_o return_v they_o no_o answer_n at_o all_o but_z addresses_z himself_o to_o the_o emperor_n theodosius_n and_o complain_v of_o the_o persecution_n of_o cyril_n which_o occasion_v a_o very_a sharp_a letter_n of_o the_o emperor_n to_o he_o charge_v he_o with_o disturb_v the_o church_n peace_n but_o this_o be_v not_o all_o for_o cyril_n have_v with_o the_o synodical_a epistle_n of_o the_o council_n of_o alexandria_n send_v twelve_o anathematism_n to_o be_v subscribe_v by_o nestorius_n he_o be_v so_o far_o from_o it_o that_o he_o charge_v cyril_n with_o the_o heresy_n of_o apollinaris_n in_o they_o and_o send_v they_o to_o johannes_n antiochenus_fw-la who_o with_o the_o syrian_a bishop_n of_o his_o diocese_n join_v with_o nestorius_n in_o the_o impeachment_n of_o cyril_n so_o that_o by_o this_o mean_v the_o sentence_n against_o nestorius_n can_v not_o be_v put_v in_o execution_n because_o of_o the_o dissent_n of_o the_o eastern_a bishop_n and_o that_o s._n cyril_n stand_v
suppose_v the_o church_n at_o the_o same_o freedom_n from_o particular_a interess_n that_o it_o be_v then_o and_o so_o great_a a_o number_n of_o bishop_n assemble_v together_o we_o look_v on_o it_o to_o be_v so_o great_a and_o awful_a a_o representation_n that_o its_o determination_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v oppose_v by_o any_o factious_a or_o turbulent_a spirit_n and_o in_o case_n some_o bishop_n be_v not_o present_a from_o some_o church_n whether_o eastern_a or_o western_a yet_o if_o upon_o the_o publish_n those_o decree_n they_o be_v universal_o accept_v that_o do_v ex_fw-la postfacto_a make_v the_o council_n true_o ecumenical_a by_o this_o you_o see_v what_o we_o mean_v by_o a_o general_n council_n and_o for_o the_o call_n of_o it_o though_o we_o say_v it_o shall_v be_v by_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o chief_a patriarch_n yet_o the_o right_n and_o custom_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n clear_o carry_v it_o that_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v summon_v by_o the_o authority_n of_o christian_a prince_n for_o nothing_o can_v be_v more_o evident_a to_o such_o who_o will_v not_o shut_v their_o eye_n against_o the_o clear_a evidence_n than_o that_o the_o first_o general_n council_n before_o the_o pope_n have_v get_v the_o better_a of_o the_o emperor_n be_v summon_v by_o the_o emperor_n command_n and_o authority_n and_o since_o the_o division_n of_o the_o empire_n into_o so_o many_o kingdom_n and_o principality_n the_o consent_n of_o christian_a prince_n be_v necessary_a on_o the_o same_o ground_n neither_o ought_v it_o only_o to_o be_v a_o general_n council_n and_o lawful_o call_v but_o lawful_o order_v too_o viz._n that_o no_o prelate_n challenge_v himself_o such_o a_o presidency_n not_o in_o but_o over_o the_o council_n that_o his_o instruction_n must_v be_v look_v on_o as_o the_o only_a chart_n they_o must_v steer_v their_o course_n by_o and_o that_o nothing_o be_v debate_v but_o proponentibus_fw-la legatis_fw-la as_o it_o be_v at_o trent_n for_o these_o thing_n take_v away_o utter_o that_o freedom_n which_o be_v necessary_a for_o a_o general_n council_n and_o therefore_o his_o lordship_n just_o require_v 2._o that_o the_o council_n do_v proceed_v lawful_o which_o it_o can_v do_v if_o it_o be_v overawe_v as_o the_o second_o ephesine_n be_v by_o dioscorus_n and_o his_o party_n or_o if_o practice_n be_v use_v as_o at_o ariminum_n but_o there_o must_v be_v the_o great_a freedom_n in_o debate_n no_o canvas_n for_o vote_n but_o every_o one_o suffer_v to_o deliver_v his_o judgement_n without_o prejudice_n or_o partiality_n that_o those_o who_o give_v their_o judegement_n deliver_v their_o reason_n before_o and_o not_o only_o appear_v in_o pontificalibus_fw-la to_o give_v their_o placet_fw-la that_o the_o bishop_n present_a be_v man_n of_o unquestionable_a ability_n and_o general_o presume_v to_o be_v well_o acquaint_v with_o the_o matter_n to_o be_v debate_v there_o for_o otherwise_o nothing_o will_v be_v more_o easy_a than_o for_o the_o more_o subtle_a man_n under_o ambiguous_a expression_n and_o fair_a pretence_n to_o bring_v over_o a_o great_a number_n of_o the_o rest_n to_o they_o who_o want_v either_o judgement_n or_o learning_n enough_o to_o discern_v their_o design_n and_o this_o be_v suppose_v to_o be_v the_o case_n of_o the_o council_n at_o ariminum_n where_o the_o occidental_a bishop_n for_o want_v of_o learning_n be_v overreach_v by_o the_o subtlety_n of_o the_o arrian_n party_n 3._o his_o lordship_n suppose_v that_o this_o council_n keep_v itself_o to_o god_n rule_n and_o not_o attempt_v to_o make_v a_o new_a one_o of_o their_o own_o for_o in_o so_o do_v they_o commit_v a_o error_n in_o the_o first_o concoction_n which_o will_v be_v incorrigible_a afterward_o and_o this_o be_v not_o only_o reasonable_a but_o just_a and_o necessary_a because_o nothing_o can_v be_v a_o rule_n of_o faith_n but_o what_o be_v of_o immediate_a divine_a revelation_n and_o this_o have_v be_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o first_o general_n council_n which_o never_o own_a or_o proceed_v by_o any_o other_o rule_n of_o faith_n but_o this_o these_o thing_n be_v suppose_v may_v we_o not_o just_o say_v that_o a_o err_a determination_n of_o such_o a_o council_n so_o proceed_v be_v a_o rare_a case_n since_o we_o believe_v that_o god_n will_v not_o deny_v to_o any_o particular_a person_n who_o do_v sincere_o seek_v it_o the_o knowledge_n of_o his_o truth_n much_o less_o may_v we_o think_v he_o will_v do_v it_o to_o such_o a_o awful_a representation_n of_o the_o church_n when_o assemble_v together_o purposely_o for_o find_v out_o that_o truth_n which_o may_v be_v of_o so_o great_a consequence_n to_o the_o christian_a world_n for_o both_o the_o truth_n of_o god_n promise_n the_o goodness_n of_o god_n to_o his_o people_n and_o his_o peculiar_a care_n of_o his_o church_n seem_v high_o concern_v that_o such_o a_o council_n shall_v not_o be_v guilty_a of_o any_o notorious_a error_n but_o because_o we_o deny_v not_o but_o such_o a_o council_n be_v fallible_a therefore_o we_o grant_v the_o case_n may_v be_v put_v that_o such_o a_o council_n may_v err_v 4._o and_o the_o question_n be_v what_o be_v to_o be_v do_v then_o whether_o every_o particular_a person_n may_v oppose_v such_o a_o determination_n or_o submit_v till_o another_o council_n reverse_v the_o decree_n of_o it_o his_o lordship_n assert_v the_o latter_a and_o so_o we_o come_v to_o the_o effect_n of_o such_o a_o err_a decree_n which_o be_v the_o three_o thing_n to_o be_v speak_v to_o as_o to_o which_o these_o thing_n must_v be_v consider_v 1._o that_o he_o do_v not_o assert_v that_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o believe_v the_o truth_n of_o that_o decree_n but_o not_o open_o to_o oppose_v it_o for_o so_o he_o speak_v express_o of_o external_a obedience_n and_o at_o least_o so_o far_o as_o it_o consist_v in_o silence_n patience_n and_o forbearance_n yield_v to_o it_o and_o therefore_o you_o be_v great_o deceive_v when_o with_o such_o confidence_n you_o assert_v that_o this_o oblige_v all_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n to_o unity_n in_o error_n for_o that_o be_v only_o consequent_a upon_o your_o principle_n that_o the_o decree_n of_o general_a council_n be_v to_o be_v believe_v by_o a_o internal_a assent_n for_o this_o indeed_o will_v necessary_o oblige_v they_o to_o unity_n in_o error_n but_o the_o most_o that_o be_v consequent_a on_o his_o lordship_n opinion_n be_v that_o in_o such_o case_n wherein_o a_o general_a council_n have_v err_v man_n ought_v rather_o to_o be_v silent_a for_o a_o time_n as_o to_o some_o truth_n than_o to_o break_v the_o church_n peace_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n he_o do_v not_o deny_v but_o that_o man_n may_v be_v bind_v to_o follow_v their_o own_o judgement_n in_o the_o discovery_n of_o truth_n nay_o and_o they_o may_v use_v all_o mean_n consistent_a with_o the_o church_n peace_n to_o promote_v that_o truth_n for_o he_o allow_v that_o just_a complaint_n may_v be_v make_v to_o the_o church_n for_o reverse_v the_o decree_n of_o the_o former_a council_n and_o this_o can_v be_v without_o discover_v the_o error_n of_o that_o council_n and_o i_o hope_v this_o liberty_n of_o dissent_n and_o just_a complaint_n be_v sufficient_a to_o keep_v all_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n from_o be_v unite_v in_o error_n and_o i_o pray_v sir_n what_o cause_n be_v there_o now_o for_o such_o hideous_a outcry_n that_o this_o be_v such_o a_o strange_a and_o impious_a doctrine_n against_o scripture_n antiquity_n and_o solid_a reason_n which_o appear_v for_o all_o that_o i_o can_v see_v very_o just_a and_o reasonable_a take_v it_o in_o the_o way_n which_o he_o explain_v himself_o in_o but_o whereas_o you_o object_n that_o this_o will_v keep_v man_n in_o error_n to_o the_o world_n end_n because_o such_o a_o council_n be_v moral_o impossible_a it_o be_v easy_a to_o show_v you_o that_o if_o the_o rectify_v council_n be_v impossible_a the_o general_a err_a council_n be_v equal_o impossible_a therefore_o there_o be_v no_o danger_n come_v that_o way_n neither_o and_o that_o such_o general_a council_n be_v grow_v such_o moral_o impossible_a thing_n we_o may_v in_o a_o great_a measure_n thank_v your_o church_n for_o it_o which_o hate_v as_o much_o such_o a_o true_a rectify_v council_n as_o you_o call_v it_o as_o the_o court_n of_o rome_n do_v a_o thorough_a reformation_n for_o all_o your_o design_n be_v to_o persuade_v man_n that_o those_o only_o be_v general_n council_n which_o have_v the_o pope_n summons_n and_o wherein_o he_o rule_v and_o in_o effect_n do_v all_o and_o to_o persuade_v man_n to_o believe_v the_o decree_n of_o such_o council_n be_v the_o most_o effectual_a way_n in_o the_o world_n to_o unite_v man_n in_o the_o belief_n of_o error_n to_o the_o world_n end_n for_o as_o long_o as_o the_o pope_n interest_n can_v carry_v it_o to_o be_v sure_a all_o rectify_v council_n shall_v be_v
church_n all_o the_o rest_n moulder_n as_o not_o be_v able_a to_o stand_v without_o they_o but_o that_o be_v still_o your_o way_n if_o any_o thing_n be_v say_v of_o the_o catholic_n church_n we_o must_v present_o understand_v it_o of_o you_o so_o that_o it_o can_v be_v say_v in_o any_o sense_n that_o the_o church_n be_v without_o spot_n or_o wrinkle_n but_o by_o you_o it_o must_v be_v understand_v present_o of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o roman_n catholic_n church_n universal_o receive_v as_o a_o matter_n of_o faith_n ibid._n but_o till_o you_o prove_v not_o only_o your_o two_o former_a assertion_n but_o that_o st._n austin_n understand_v those_o word_n ever_o in_o that_o sense_n your_o vindication_n of_o that_o place_n in_o he_o concern_v it_o will_v appear_v utter_o impertinent_a to_o your_o purpose_n and_o his_o lordship_n assertion_n may_v still_o stand_v good_a that_o the_o church_n on_o earth_n be_v not_o any_o free_a from_o wrinkle_n in_o doctrine_n and_o discipline_n than_o she_o be_v from_o spot_n in_o life_n and_o conversation_n have_v thus_o vindicate_v his_o lordship_n way_n from_o the_o objection_n you_o raise_v against_o it_o 8._o we_o must_v now_o consider_v how_o well_o you_o vindicate_v your_o own_o from_o the_o unreasonableness_n he_o charge_v it_o with_o in_o several_a particular_n 1._o that_o if_o we_o suppose_v a_o general_n council_n infallible_a and_o it_o prove_v not_o so_o 258._o but_o that_o a_o error_n in_o faith_n be_v conclude_v the_o same_o err_a opinion_n which_o make_v it_o think_v itself_o infallible_a make_v the_o error_n of_o it_o irrevocable_a and_o so_o leave_v the_o church_n without_o remedy_n to_o this_o you_o answer_v 269._o grant_v false_a antecedent_n and_o false_a premise_n enough_o and_o what_o absurdity_n will_v not_o be_v consequent_a and_o fill_v up_o the_o conclusion_n but_o you_o clear_o mistake_v the_o present_a business_n which_o be_v not_o whether_o council_n be_v infallible_a or_o no_o but_o whether_o opinion_n be_v liable_a to_o great_a inconvenience_n that_o which_o assert_n that_o they_o may_v or_o that_o they_o can_v err_v will_v you_o have_v your_o supposition_n of_o the_o infallibility_n of_o council_n take_v for_o a_o first_o principle_n or_o a_o thing_n as_o true_a as_o the_o scripture_n so_o you_o will_v seem_v indeed_o by_o the_o suppose_v the_o scripture_n not_o to_o be_v god_n word_n which_o you_o subjoin_v as_o the_o parallel_n 270._o to_o the_o suppose_v general_a council_n fallible_a but_o will_v you_o say_v the_o one_o be_v as_o evident_a and_o build_v on_o as_o good_a reason_n and_o as_o much_o agree_v on_o among_o christian_n as_o the_o other_o be_v i_o suppose_v you_o will_v not_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v very_o absurd_a &_o unreasonable_a to_o say_v suppose_v the_o word_n of_o god_n be_v not_o so_o error_n will_v be_v irrevocable_a as_o if_o general_a council_n be_v suppose_v infallible_a and_o prove_v not_o so_o but_o this_o be_v a_o question_n you_o grant_v to_o be_v disputable_a among_o christian_n and_o will_v you_o not_o give_v we_o leave_v to_o make_v a_o supposition_n that_o it_o may_v prove_v not_o so_o you_o must_v consider_v we_o be_v now_o inquire_v into_o the_o conveniency_n of_o these_o two_o opinion_n and_o in_o that_o case_n it_o be_v necessary_a to_o make_v such_o supposition_n and_o let_v any_o reasonable_a man_n judge_v what_o opinion_n can_v be_v more_o pernicious_a to_o the_o church_n than_o you_o be_v suppose_v it_o not_o to_o be_v true_a for_o than_o it_o will_v be_v necessary_a for_o man_n to_o assent_v to_o the_o gross_a error_n as_o the_o most_o divine_a and_o infallible_a truth_n and_o there_o can_v be_v no_o remedy_n imagine_v for_o the_o redress_n of_o they_o if_o then_o the_o inconvenience_n of_o admit_v it_o be_v so_o great_a man_n have_v need_n look_v well_o to_o the_o ground_n on_o which_o it_o be_v build_v and_o i_o can_v see_v any_o reason_n man_n can_v have_v to_o admit_v any_o infallible_a proponent_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n to_o the_o church_n but_o on_o as_o great_a and_o as_o clear_a evidence_n as_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n have_v that_o they_o be_v send_v from_o god_n for_o the_o danger_n may_v be_v as_o great_a to_o believe_v that_o to_o be_v infallible_a which_o be_v not_o as_o not_o to_o believe_v that_o to_o be_v infallible_a which_o be_v for_o the_o believe_v a_o error_n to_o be_v a_o divine_a truth_n may_v be_v as_o dangerous_a to_o the_o soul_n of_o man_n as_o the_o not_o believe_v something_o which_o be_v real_o reveal_v by_o god_n but_o to_o be_v sure_a those_o who_o see_v no_o reason_n to_o believe_v a_o general_n council_n to_o be_v infallible_a can_v be_v oblige_v to_o assent_v to_o error_n propound_v by_o it_o but_o such_o who_o believe_v it_o infallible_a must_n what_o ever_o the_o error_n be_v swallow_v they_o down_o without_o question_v the_o truth_n of_o they_o and_o it_o argue_v how_o conscious_a you_o be_v of_o the_o falseness_n of_o your_o principle_n that_o you_o be_v so_o loath_a to_o have_v they_o examine_v or_o so_o much_o as_o a_o supposition_n make_v that_o they_o shall_v not_o prove_v true_a whereas_o truth_n always_o invite_v man_n to_o the_o most_o accurate_a search_n into_o it_o we_o see_v the_o apostle_n bid_v man_n search_v whether_o the_o thing_n they_o speak_v be_v true_a or_o no_o and_o those_o be_v most_o commend_v who_o do_v it_o most_o and_o i_o hope_v man_n be_v as_o much_o bind_v to_o believe_v they_o infallible_a as_o general_a council_n but_o we_o see_v how_o unreasonable_a you_o be_v you_o will_v obtrude_v such_o thing_n upon_o man_n faith_n which_o must_v lead_v they_o into_o unavoidable_a error_n if_o false_a and_o yet_o not_o allow_v man_n the_o liberty_n of_o examination_n whether_o they_o be_v true_a or_o no._n but_o such_o proceed_n be_v so_o far_o from_o advance_v your_o cause_n that_o nothing_o can_v more_o prejudice_v it_o among_o rational_a and_o inquisitive_a man_n his_o lordship_n for_o the_o clear_n this_o proceed_v to_o a_o instance_n of_o a_o error_n define_v by_o one_o of_o your_o general_a council_n 259._o viz._n communion_n in_o one_o kind_n but_o that_o we_o shall_v reserve_v the_o discussion_n of_o to_o the_o ensue_a chapter_n which_o be_v purposely_o allot_v for_o the_o discovery_n of_o those_o error_n which_o have_v be_v define_v by_o such_o as_o you_o call_v general_a council_n therefore_o i_o proceed_v 2._o his_o lordship_n say_v your_o opinion_n be_v yet_o more_o unreasonable_a because_o no_o body-collective_a 9_o whensoever_o it_o assemble_v itself_o do_v ever_o give_v more_o power_n to_o the_o represent_v body_n of_o it_o than_o a_o bind_a power_n upon_o itself_o and_o all_o particular_n nor_o ever_o do_v it_o give_v this_o power_n otherwise_o 260._o then_o with_o this_o reservation_n in_o nature_n that_o it_o will_v call_v again_o and_o reform_v and_o if_o need_n be_v abrogate_v any_o law_n or_o ordinance_n upon_o just_a cause_n make_v evident_a that_o the_o represent_v body_n have_v fail_v in_o trust_n or_o truth_n and_o this_o power_n no_o body-collective_a ecclesiastical_a or_o civil_a can_v put_v out_o of_o itself_o or_o give_v away_o to_o a_o parliament_n or_o council_n or_o call_v it_o what_o you_o will_v that_o represent_v it_o to_o this_o again_o you_o answer_v 272._o this_o be_v only_o to_o suppose_v and_o take_v for_o grant_v that_o a_o general_n council_n have_v no_o authority_n but_o what_o be_v mere_o delegate_v from_o the_o church_n universal_a which_o it_o represent_v i_o grant_v this_o be_v suppose_v in_o it_o and_o this_o be_v all_o which_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o representative_a body_n do_v imply_v if_o you_o say_v there_o be_v more_o than_o that_o you_o be_v bind_v to_o prove_v it_o yes_o say_v you_o we_o maintain_v its_o authority_n to_o be_v of_o divine_a institution_n and_o when_o lawful_o assemble_v to_o act_v by_o divine_a right_n and_o not_o mere_o by_o deputation_n and_o consent_n of_o the_o church_n but_o if_o all_o the_o proof_n you_o have_v for_o it_o be_v only_o that_o which_o you_o refer_v we_o to_o in_o the_o precedent_a chapter_n the_o palpable_a weakness_n of_o it_o for_o any_o such_o purpose_n have_v be_v there_o full_o lay_v open_a his_o lordship_n say_v that_o the_o power_n which_o a_o council_n have_v to_o order_n 261._o settle_v and_o define_v difference_n arise_v concern_v faith_n it_o have_v not_o by_o any_o immediate_a institution_n from_o christ_n but_o it_o be_v prudent_o take_v up_o by_o the_o church_n from_o the_o apostle_n example_n so_o that_o to_o hold_v council_n to_o this_o end_n be_v apparent_a apostolical_a tradition_n write_v but_o the_o power_n which_o council_n have_v be_v from_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n who_o member_n they_o be_v and_o the_o church_n power_n from_o god_n you_o say_v true_a it_o be_v the_o call_z such_o
weakness_n of_o your_o argument_n 307._o for_o the_o crime_n of_o schism_n and_o unsoundness_n of_o faith_n be_v still_o as_o chargeable_a upon_o you_o though_o we_o may_v grant_v a_o possibility_n of_o salvation_n to_o some_o in_o your_o church_n and_o i_o can_v possible_o discern_v any_o difference_n between_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o catholic_n concern_v the_o donatist_n and_o we_o concern_v you_o for_o if_o they_o judge_v the_o donatists_n way_n very_o dangerous_a because_o of_o their_o uncharitableness_n to_o all_o other_o so_o do_v we_o of_o you_o but_o if_o they_o notwithstanding_o that_o hope_v that_o the_o mislead_a people_n among_o they_o may_v be_v save_v that_o be_v as_o much_o as_o we_o dare_v say_v concern_v you_o and_o you_o very_o much_o mistake_v if_o you_o think_v the_o contrary_a for_o his_o lordship_n no_o where_o say_v as_o you_o will_v seem_v to_o impose_v upon_o he_o that_o a_o man_n may_v live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o that_o none_o of_o his_o error_n shall_v hinder_v salvation_n whatsoever_o motive_n he_o may_v know_v to_o the_o contrary_n but_o on_o the_o other_o side_n 296._o he_o plain_o say_v that_o he_o that_o live_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n with_o a_o resolution_n to_o live_v and_o die_v in_o it_o be_v presume_v to_o believe_v as_o that_o church_n believe_v and_o he_o that_o do_v so_o i_o will_v not_o say_v be_v as_o guilty_a but_o guilty_a he_o be_v more_o or_o less_o of_o the_o schism_n which_o that_o church_n first_o cause_v by_o her_o corruption_n and_o now_o continue_v by_o they_o and_o her_o power_n together_o and_o of_o all_o her_o damnable_a opinion_n too_o and_o all_o other_o sin_n also_o which_o the_o doctrine_n and_o mis-belief_n of_o that_o church_n lead_v he_o into_o judge_v you_o now_o i_o pray_v whether_o we_o think_v otherwise_o of_o those_o in_o your_o church_n than_o the_o orthodox_n do_v of_o the_o donatist_n so_o that_o if_o the_o argument_n do_v hold_v for_o you_o it_o will_v as_o well_o have_v hold_v for_o they_o too_o and_o therefore_o his_o lordship_n well_o infer_v that_o this_o principle_n that_o where_o two_o party_n be_v dissent_v it_o be_v safe_a believe_v that_o in_o which_o both_o party_n agree_v or_o which_o the_o adversary_n confess_v may_v lead_v man_n by_o your_o own_o confession_n into_o know_v and_o damnable_a schism_n and_o heresy_n for_o such_o you_o say_v the_o donatist_n be_v guilty_a of_o and_o such_o his_o lordship_n say_v there_o be_v great_a danger_n of_o 298._o in_o your_o church_n too_o for_o say_v he_o in_o this_o present_a case_n there_o be_v peril_n great_a peril_n of_o damnable_a both_o schism_n and_o heresy_n and_o other_o sin_n by_o live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o roman_a faith_n taint_v with_o so_o many_o superstition_n as_o at_o this_o day_n it_o be_v and_o their_o tyranny_n to_o boot_v i_o pray_v now_o bethink_v yourself_o what_o difference_n be_v there_o between_o the_o orthodox_n judgement_n of_o the_o donatist_n and_o we_o concern_v your_o church_n and_o therefore_o the_o comparison_n between_o petilian_n the_o donatist_n and_o his_o lordship_n adversary_n hold_v good_a still_o for_o all_o your_o answer_n depend_v upon_o a_o mistake_n of_o protestant_n grant_v a_o possibility_n of_o salvation_n 315._o as_o i_o have_v already_o show_v you_o and_o in_o what_o way_n soever_o you_o limit_v this_o agreement_n you_o can_v possible_o avoid_v but_o that_o it_o will_v equal_o hold_v as_o to_o the_o donatist_n too_o for_o the_o concession_n be_v then_o as_o great_a in_o order_n to_o salvation_n as_o it_o be_v now_o 7._o but_o you_o say_v whether_o he_o assert_v it_o or_o no_o it_o must_v needs_o follow_v from_o the_o bishop_n principle_n that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o peril_n of_o damnation_n by_o live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n because_o he_o profess_o exempt_v the_o ignorant_a and_o grant_v as_o much_o of_o those_o who_o do_v witting_o and_o know_o associate_v themselves_o to_o the_o gross_a superstition_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n if_o they_o hold_v the_o foundation_n christ_n and_o live_v according_o from_o whence_o you_o argue_v that_o if_o neither_o voluntary_a nor_o involuntary_a superstition_n can_v hinder_v from_o salvation_n than_o there_o be_v confess_o no_o peril_n of_o damnation_n in_o your_o church_n and_o yet_o his_o lordship_n say_v all_o protestant_n unanimous_o agree_v in_o this_o 302._o that_o there_o be_v great_a peril_n of_o damnation_n for_o any_o man_n to_o live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o roman_a persuasion_n and_o therefore_o say_v he_o that_o be_v a_o most_o notorious_a slander_n where_o you_o say_v that_o they_o which_o affirm_v this_o peril_n of_o damnation_n be_v contradict_v by_o their_o own_o more_o learned_a brethren_n by_o which_o we_o see_v the_o unjustice_n of_o your_o proceed_n in_o offer_v to_o wrest_v his_o lordship_n word_n contrary_a to_o his_o express_a meaning_n and_o since_o all_o your_o argument_n depend_v upon_o your_o adversary_n confession_n you_o ought_v to_o take_v that_o confession_n in_o the_o most_o clear_a and_o perspicuous_a term_n and_o to_o understand_v all_o obscure_a expression_n suitable_o to_o their_o often_o declare_a sense_n which_o if_o you_o have_v attend_v to_o you_o will_v never_o have_v undertake_v to_o prove_v that_o this_o lordship_n grant_v that_o there_o be_v no_o peril_n of_o damnation_n in_o your_o church_n which_o he_o so_o often_o disavow_v and_o call_v it_o a_o most_o notorious_a slander_n and_o a_o most_o loud_a untruth_n which_o no_o ingenuous_a man_n will_v ever_o have_v say_v 301._o and_o even_o of_o those_o person_n who_o he_o speak_v most_o favourable_o of_o he_o say_v that_o although_o they_o wish_v for_o the_o abolish_n the_o superstition_n in_o use_n yet_o all_o he_o grant_v they_o be_v a_o possibility_n of_o salvation_n but_o with_o extreme_a hazard_n to_o themselves_o by_o keep_v close_o to_o that_o which_o be_v superstition_n and_o come_v so_o near_a idolatry_n be_v these_o then_o such_o expression_n which_o import_v no_o peril_n of_o damnation_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o therefore_o when_o he_o speak_v of_o the_o possibility_n of_o the_o salvation_n of_o such_o who_o associate_v themselves_o witting_o and_o know_o to_o the_o gross_a superstition_n of_o the_o romish_a church_n he_o declare_v sufficient_o that_o he_o mean_v it_o not_o of_o those_o who_o do_v in_o heart_n approve_v of_o they_o but_o only_o of_o such_o who_o though_o they_o be_v convince_v they_o be_v gross_a superstition_n yet_o think_v they_o may_v communicate_v with_o those_o who_o use_v they_o as_o long_o as_o they_o do_v not_o approve_v of_o they_o which_o error_n of_o they_o though_o he_o look_v on_o it_o as_o dangerous_a yet_o not_o as_o whole_o destructive_a of_o salvation_n but_o since_o your_o answer_n to_o this_o be_v 316._o that_o he_o mistake_v very_o much_o in_o suppose_v such_o person_n to_o belong_v to_o your_o church_n and_o communion_n you_o be_v not_o aware_a how_o much_o thereby_o you_o take_v off_o from_o the_o protestant_n confession_n since_o those_o who_o we_o contend_v for_o a_o possibility_n of_o salvation_n for_o be_v such_o only_a who_o you_o deny_v to_o be_v of_o your_o church_n communion_n and_o so_o the_o argument_n signify_v much_o less_o by_o your_o confession_n than_o it_o do_v before_o thus_o we_o see_v how_o this_o argument_n upon_o the_o same_o term_n you_o manage_v it_o against_o we_o will_v have_v hold_v as_o well_o in_o the_o behalf_n of_o the_o donatist_n against_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n for_o what_o other_o impertinency_n you_o mix_v here_o and_o there_o it_o be_v time_n now_o to_o pass_v they_o over_o since_o the_o main_a ground_n of_o they_o have_v be_v so_o full_o handle_v before_o we_o therefore_o proceed_v to_o the_o second_o answer_v his_o lordship_n give_v to_o this_o argument_n viz._n that_o if_o the_o principle_n on_o which_o it_o stand_v do_v hold_v 8._o it_o make_v more_o for_o the_o advantage_n of_o protestant_n than_o against_o they_o for_o if_o that_o be_v safe_a which_o both_o party_n be_v agree_v in_o than_o 1._o you_o be_v bind_v to_o believe_v with_o we_o in_o the_o point_n of_o the_o eucharist_n 286._o for_o all_o side_n agree_v in_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n that_o in_o the_o most_o bless_a sacrament_n the_o worthy_a receiver_n be_v by_o his_o faith_n make_v spiritual_o partaker_n of_o the_o true_a and_o real_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n true_o and_o real_o and_o of_o all_o the_o benefit_n of_o his_o passion_n your_o roman_a catholic_n add_v a_o manner_n of_o this_o presence_n transubstantiation_n which_o many_o deny_v and_o the_o lutheran_n consubstantiation_n which_o more_o deny_v if_o this_o argument_n be_v good_a then_o even_o for_o this_o consent_n it_o be_v safe_a communicate_v with_o the_o church_n of_o england_n than_o with_o the_o
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which_o cyprian_n reply_v whence_o come_v this_o tradition_n traditio_fw-la do_v it_o descend_v from_o the_o lord_n authority_n or_o from_o the_o command_v and_o epistle_n of_o the_o apostle_n for_o those_o thing_n be_v to_o be_v do_v which_o be_v there_o write_v and_o again_o if_o it_o be_v command_v in_o the_o gospel_n or_o the_o epistle_n and_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n then_o let_v this_o holy_a tradition_n be_v observe_v we_o see_v then_o what_o st._n cyprian_n mean_v by_o his_o apostolical_a tradition_n not_o one_o infallible_o attest_v by_o the_o present_a church_n but_o that_o be_v clear_o derive_v from_o scripture_n as_o its_o fountain_n and_o therefore_o bring_v in_o the_o forego_n word_n on_o purpose_n to_o correct_v the_o error_n of_o tradition_n that_o as_o when_o channel_n be_v divert_v to_o a_o wrong_a course_n we_o must_v have_v recourse_n to_o the_o fountain_n so_o we_o must_v in_o all_o pretend_a tradition_n of_o the_o church_n run_v up_o to_o the_o scripture_n as_o 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it_o be_v be_v say_v to_o have_v express_v so_o much_o joy_n at_o the_o time_n of_o that_o horrid_a execution_n what_o counsel_n and_o machination_n be_v say_v to_o have_v be_v among_o some_o devote_a son_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n abroad_o about_o that_o time_n therefore_o clear_v yourselves_o more_o than_o yet_o you_o have_v do_v of_o those_o imputation_n before_o you_o charge_v that_o guilt_n on_o protestant_n which_o they_o express_v the_o high_a abhorrence_n of_o and_o let_v the_o name_n of_o such_o who_o either_o public_o or_o private_o abett_v or_o justify_v such_o horrid_a action_n be_v under_o a_o continual_a anathema_n to_o all_o generation_n 6._o after_o all_o this_o discourse_n about_o the_o pope_n authority_n a._n c._n bring_v it_o at_o last_o home_n to_o the_o business_n of_o schism_n for_o he_o say_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n shall_v never_o refuse_v to_o feed_v and_o govern_v the_o whole_a flock_n in_o such_o sort_n as_o that_o neither_o particular_a man_n nor_o church_n shall_v have_v just_a cause_n under_o pretence_n of_o reformation_n in_o manner_n of_o faith_n to_o make_v a_o separation_n from_o the_o whole_a church_n this_o his_o lordship_n say_v by_o a._n c_o his_o favour_n 18._o be_v mere_a beg_v the_o question_n for_o this_o be_v the_o very_a thing_n which_o the_o protestant_n charge_v upon_o he_o namely_o that_o he_o have_v govern_v if_o not_o the_o whole_a yet_o so_o much_o of_o the_o church_n as_o he_o have_v be_v able_a to_o bring_v under_o his_o power_n so_o as_o that_o he_o have_v give_v too_o just_a cause_n of_o the_o present_a continue_a separation_n and_o as_o the_o corruption_n in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o the_o first_o separation_n so_o be_v they_o at_o this_o present_a day_n the_o cause_n why_o the_o separation_n continue_v
the_o catholic_n church_n with_o they_o and_o there_o be_v the_o great_a hope_n of_o it_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d since_o neither_o part_n do_v agree_v with_o the_o bishop_n of_o old_a rome_n or_o the_o church_n which_o join_v with_o he_o but_o both_o oppose_v the_o evil_a custom_n and_o abuse_n which_o come_v by_o he_o which_o bear_v the_o same_o date_n with_o the_o patriarch_n first_o answer_n to_o the_o tube_v divine_v may_n 15._o 1576._o and_o the_o patriarch_n in_o his_o letter_n hearty_o wish_v a_o union_n and_o conjunction_n between_o they_o from_o hence_o we_o may_v easy_o gather_v how_o true_a both_o those_o thing_n be_v viz._n that_o the_o intent_n of_o their_o writing_n be_v to_o be_v admit_v into_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o greek_a church_n and_o that_o the_o patriarch_n do_v not_o in_o the_o least_o approve_v their_o doctrine_n but_o confirm_v the_o tenet_n of_o the_o roman_n catholic_n church_n but_o we_o must_v look_v further_o into_o the_o write_n themselves_o 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wherein_o he_o dispute_v most_o earnest_o there_o be_v five_o other_o in_o which_o they_o dissent_v from_o each_o other_o about_o free_a will_n justification_n by_o faith_n the_o number_n of_o sacrament_n invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o monastic_a life_n and_o about_o these_o the_o remain_a dispute_n be_v in_o some_o of_o which_o it_o be_v easy_a to_o discern_v how_o far_o the_o right_a state_n of_o the_o question_n be_v from_o be_v apprehend_v which_o the_o lutheran_n divine_v perceive_v send_v he_o a_o large_a and_o full_a explication_n of_o their_o mind_n in_o a_o body_n of_o divinity_n in_o greek_a but_o the_o patriarch_n trouble_v come_v on_o cantacuzenus_n depose_v he_o too_o and_o other_o business_n take_v he_o off_o upon_o his_o restauration_n he_o break_v off_o the_o conference_n between_o they_o but_o although_o he_o differ_v from_o they_o in_o these_o thing_n yet_o he_o be_v far_o enough_o from_o rebuke_v they_o for_o depart_v from_o the_o roman_a church_n although_o he_o be_v desirous_a they_o shall_v have_v join_v with_o they_o in_o the_o approbation_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o be_v in_o use_n among_o themselves_o and_o in_o those_o thing_n in_o which_o he_o seem_v to_o plead_v for_o some_o practice_n in_o use_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n yet_o there_o be_v many_o considerable_a circumstance_n about_o they_o wherein_o they_o differ_v from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n as_o have_v be_v manifest_v by_o many_o other_o as_o in_o the_o article_n of_o invocation_n of_o saint_n the_o patriarch_n say_v they_o do_v not_o proper_o invocate_v saint_n but_o god_n for_o neither_o peter_n nor_o paul_n do_v hear_v we_o upon_o which_o ground_n it_o be_v impossible_a to_o maintain_v the_o romish_a doctrine_n of_o invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o in_o most_o of_o the_o other_o the_o main_a difference_n lie_v in_o the_o want_n of_o a_o true_a state_n of_o the_o question_n between_o they_o but_o be_v this_o any_o such_o great_a matter_n of_o admiration_n that_o the_o 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the_o patriarch_n hieremias_n be_v that_o in_o some_o thing_n he_o be_v opposite_a to_o the_o protestant_n as_o in_o other_o to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o what_o will_v you_o have_v say_v if_o any_o patriarch_n of_o constantinople_n have_v declare_v his_o consent_n so_o full_o with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n as_o the_o patriarch_n cyril_n do_v afterward_o with_o the_o protestant_n who_o on_o that_o account_n suffer_v so_o much_o by_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o jesuit_n of_o who_o he_o complain_v in_o his_o epistle_n to_o vtenbogard_a 412._o and_o although_o a_o faction_n be_v raise_v against_o he_o by_o parthenius_n who_o succeed_v he_o yet_o another_o parthenius_n succeed_v he_o stand_v up_o in_o vindication_n of_o he_o since_o therefore_o such_o different_a opinion_n have_v be_v among_o they_o about_o the_o present_a controversy_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n and_o there_o be_v no_o declare_a confession_n of_o their_o faith_n which_o be_v own_v by_o the_o whole_a greek_a church_n as_o to_o these_o thing_n there_o can_v be_v no_o confident_a pronounce_v what_o their_o judgement_n be_v as_o to_o all_o our_o difference_n till_o they_o have_v further_o declare_v themselves_o part_n iii_o of_o particular_a controversy_n chap._n i._o of_o the_o infallibility_n of_o general_n council_n how_o far_o this_o tend_v to_o the_o end_a controversy_n two_o distinct_a question_n concern_v the_o infallibility_n and_o authority_n of_o general_n council_n the_o first_o enter_v upon_o with_o the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o certainty_n of_o faith_n that_o general_a council_n be_v infallible_a nor_o that_o the_o particular_a decree_n of_o any_o of_o they_o be_v so_o which_o be_v large_o prove_v pighius_fw-la his_o argument_n against_o the_o divine_a institution_n of_o general_n council_n the_o place_n of_o scripture_n consider_v which_o be_v bring_v for_o the_o church_n infallibility_n and_o that_o these_o can_v prove_v that_o general_a council_n be_v so_o matth._n 18.20_o act_n 15.28_o particular_o answer_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o father_n in_o their_o high_a expression_n of_o the_o decree_n of_o council_n no_o consent_n of_o the_o church_n as_o to_o their_o infallibility_n the_o place_n of_o st._n austin_n about_o the_o amendment_n of_o former_a general_n council_n by_o latter_a at_o large_a vindicate_v no_o other_o place_n in_o s._n austin_n prove_v they_o infallible_a but_o many_o to_o the_o contrary_n general_a council_n can_v be_v infallible_a in_o the_o conclusion_n if_o not_o in_o the_o use_n of_o the_o mean_n no_o such_o infallibility_n without_o as_o immediate_a a_o revelation_n as_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n have_v take_v infallibility_n not_o for_o a_o absolute_a unerring_a power_n but_o such_o as_o come_v by_o a_o promise_n of_o divine_a assistance_n preserve_v from_o error_n no_o obligation_n to_o internal_a assent_n but_o from_o immediate_a divine_a authority_n of_o the_o consistency_n of_o faith_n and_o reason_n in_o thing_n propound_v to_o be_v believe_v the_o suitableness_n of_o the_o contrary_a doctrine_n to_o the_o romanist_n principle_n if_o high_a pretence_n and_o large_a promise_n be_v the_o only_a thing_n 1._o which_o we_o ought_v to_o value_v any_o church_n for_o there_o be_v none_o comparable_a to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n for_o there_o can_v be_v nothing_o imagine_v amiss_o in_o the_o christian_a world_n but_o if_o we_o believe_v the_o bill_n her_o factour_n set_v up_o she_o have_v a_o infallible_a cure_n for_o it_o if_o any_o inquire_v into_o the_o ground_n of_o religion_n they_o tell_v we_o that_o her_o testimony_n only_o can_v give_v they_o infallible_a certainty_n if_o any_o be_v afraid_a of_o mistake_v in_o opinion_n they_o have_v the_o only_a infallible_a judge_n of_o controversy_n to_o go_v to_o if_o any_o complain_v of_o the_o rent_n and_o division_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n they_o have_v infallible_a council_n either_o to_o
err_v yet_o we_o have_v yield_v so_o much_o to_o you_o as_o to_o disprove_v what_o you_o have_v in_o general_n bring_v for_o the_o one_o before_o we_o come_v to_o meddle_v with_o the_o other_o but_o that_o be_v dispatch_v we_o come_v to_o a_o more_o short_a and_o compendious_a way_n of_o overthrow_v your_o infallibility_n by_o show_v the_o palpable_a falsity_n of_o such_o principle_n which_o must_v be_v own_v by_o you_o as_o infallible_a truth_n because_o define_v by_o general_a council_n confirm_v by_o the_o pope_n whereof_o the_o first_o in_o the_o endictment_n as_o you_o say_v be_v that_o of_o the_o priest_n intention_n define_v by_o the_o council_n of_o florence_n and_o trent_n both_o of_o they_o confirm_v by_o the_o pope_n to_o be_v essential_o necessary_a to_o the_o validity_n of_o a_o sacrament_n 281._o concern_v this_o there_o be_v two_o thing_n to_o be_v inquire_v into_o 1._o whether_o this_o do_v not_o render_v all_o pretence_n of_o infallibility_n with_o you_o a_o vain_a and_o useless_a thing_n 2._o whether_o it_o be_v not_o in_o itself_o a_o error_n we_o must_v begin_v with_o the_o first_o of_o these_o for_o that_o be_v the_o occasion_n of_o his_o lordship_n enter_v upon_o it_o for_o he_o be_v show_v that_o your_o claim_n of_o infallibility_n be_v of_o no_o use_n at_o all_o 271._o for_o the_o settle_n of_o truth_n and_o peace_n in_o the_o church_n because_o no_o man_n can_v either_o know_v or_o believe_v this_o infallibility_n it_o can_v be_v believe_v with_o divine_a faith_n have_v no_o foundation_n either_o in_o the_o write_a word_n of_o god_n or_o tradition_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o no_o humane_a faith_n can_v be_v sufficient_a in_o order_n to_o it_o but_o neither_o can_v it_o be_v believe_v or_o know_v upon_o that_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o florence_n and_o trent_n that_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o priest_n be_v necessary_a to_o the_o validity_n of_o a_o sacrament_n and_o lest_o you_o shall_v think_v i_o represent_v his_o lordship_n word_n too_o much_o with_o advantage_n i_o will_v take_v his_o argument_n in_o the_o word_n you_o have_v sum_v it_o up_o in_o which_o be_v these_o before_o the_o church_n or_o any_o particular_a man_n can_v make_v use_n of_o the_o pope_n infallibility_n that_o be_v be_v settle_v and_o confirm_v in_o the_o truth_n by_o mean_n thereof_o 282._o he_o must_v either_o know_v or_o upon_o sure_a ground_n believe_v that_o he_o be_v infallible_a but_o say_v the_o bishop_n this_o can_v only_o be_v believe_v of_o he_o as_o he_o be_v s._n peter_n successor_n and_o bishop_n of_o rome_n of_o which_o it_o be_v impossible_a in_o the_o relatours_n opinion_n for_o the_o church_n or_o any_o particular_a man_n to_o have_v such_o certainty_n as_o be_v sufficient_a to_o ground_v a_o infallible_a belief_n why_o because_o the_o knowledge_n and_o belief_n of_o this_o depend_v upon_o his_o be_v true_o in_o order_n true_o a_o bishop_n true_o a_o priest_n true_o baptise_a none_o of_o all_o which_o 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number_n of_o baptise_a person_n to_o make_v a_o church_n by_o this_o we_o see_v how_o likely_a you_o be_v to_o assoil_v this_o difficulty_n who_o bring_v it_o more_o strong_o upon_o yourself_o without_o the_o least_o inconvenience_n to_o your_o adversary_n for_o i_o grant_v it_o necessary_o follow_v against_o the_o pretence_n of_o any_o infallibility_n whether_o in_o church_n council_n or_o pope_n as_o be_v a_o certain_a ground_n for_o faith_n for_o all_o these_o must_v suppose_v such_o a_o certainty_n of_o the_o due_a administration_n of_o sacrament_n which_o your_o doctrine_n of_o intention_n do_v utter_o destroy_v for_o these_o two_o thing_n be_v your_o principle_n of_o faith_n that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o certainty_n of_o faith_n without_o present_a infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o in_o order_n to_o the_o believe_v this_o testimony_n infallible_a there_o must_v be_v such_o a_o certainty_n as_o be_v ground_n sufficient_a for_o a_o infallible_a belief_n now_o how_o be_v it_o possible_a there_o can_v be_v such_o when_o there_o can_v be_v no_o certainty_n of_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n council_n or_o pope_n from_o your_o own_o principle_n for_o when_o the_o only_a way_n of_o know_v this_o be_v a_o thing_n not_o possible_a to_o be_v evidence_v to_o any_o one_o in_o any_o way_n of_o infallible_a certainty_n viz._n the_o intention_n of_o the_o priest_n you_o must_v unavoidable_o destroy_v all_o your_o pretence_n of_o infallibility_n for_o to_o what_o purpose_n do_v you_o tell_v i_o that_o pope_n or_o council_n be_v infallible_a unless_o i_o may_v be_v infallible_o sure_a that_o such_o decree_n be_v pass_v by_o pope_n and_o council_n i_o can_v be_v assure_v of_o that_o unless_o i_o be_v first_o assure_v that_o they_o be_v baptise_a person_n and_o bishop_n of_o the_o church_n and_o for_o this_o you_o dare_v not_o offer_v at_o infallible_a certainty_n and_o therefore_o all_o the_o rest_n be_v useless_a and_o vain_a so_o that_o while_n by_o this_o doctrine_n of_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o priest_n for_o the_o validity_n of_o the_o sacrament_n you_o think_v to_o advance_v high_o the_o reputation_n of_o the_o priesthood_n and_o to_o take_v away_o the_o assurance_n of_o protestant_n as_o to_o the_o benefit_n which_o come_v by_o the_o use_n of_o the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o lord_n supper_n you_o can_v not_o have_v assert_v any_o thing_n more_o real_o pernicious_a to_o yourselves_o than_o this_o doctrine_n be_v so_o strange_a a_o incogitancy_n be_v it_o in_o those_o council_n to_o define_v it_o and_o as_o great_a in_o those_o who_o defend_v it_o and_o yet_o at_o the_o same_o time_n maintain_v the_o necessity_n of_o a_o present_a infallibility_n in_o the_o church_n and_o general_n council_n for_o can_v any_o thing_n be_v more_o rational_a then_o to_o desire_v the_o high_a assurance_n as_o to_o that_o who_o decree_n i_o be_o to_o believe_v infallible_a and_o yet_o at_o the_o last_o you_o confess_v we_o can_v have_v but_o a_o moral_a certainty_n of_o it_o and_o that_o of_o the_o low_a degree_n the_o utmost_a ground_n of_o it_o be_v either_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o priest_n himself_o or_o that_o we_o have_v no_o ground_n to_o suspect_v the_o contrary_n now_o what_o unreasonable_a man_n be_v you_o who_o so_o much_o to_o the_o dishonour_n of_o christian_a religion_n cry_v out_o upon_o the_o rational_a evidence_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o it_o as_o a_o uncertain_a principle_n and_o that_o protestant_n though_o they_o assert_v the_o high_a degree_n of_o actual_a certainty_n can_v have_v any_o divine_a faith_n because_o they_o want_v the_o church_n infallible_a testimony_n and_o yet_o when_o we_o inquire_v into_o this_o infallible_a testimony_n you_o be_v fain_o to_o resolve_v it_o into_o one_o of_o the_o most_o uncertain_a and_o conjectural_a thing_n imaginable_a for_o what_o can_v i_o have_v less_o ground_n to_o build_v my_o faith_n upon_o than_o that_o the_o priest_n have_v at_o least_o a_o virtual_a intention_n to_o do_v as_o the_o church_n do_v who_o must_v i_o believe_v in_o this_o case_n and_o whereon_o must_v that_o faith_n be_v ground_v on_o the_o priest_n testimony_n but_o how_o can_v i_o be_v assure_v but_o that_o he_o who_o may_v wander_v in_o his_o intention_n may_v do_v so_o in_o his_o expression_n too_o or_o must_v i_o do_v it_o because_o i_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o suspect_v the_o contrary_a how_o can_v you_o assure_v i_o of_o that_o that_o i_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o suspect_v the_o contrary_a no_o otherwise_o then_o by_o tell_v i_o that_o the_o priest_n be_v a_o man_n of_o that_o honesty_n and_o integrity_n that_o he_o can_v be_v suppose_v to_o do_v such_o a_o thing_n without_o intention_n so_o that_o though_o i_o be_v in_o italy_n or_o spain_n where_o some_o have_v tell_v we_o it_o be_v no_o hard_a matter_n to_o meet_v with_o jew_n
roman_a or_o lutheran_n because_o all_o agree_v in_o this_o truth_n not_o in_o any_o other_o opinion_n you_o say_v this_o can_v hold_v no_o further_o than_o communicate_v in_o the_o belief_n of_o this_o opinion_n let_v that_o be_v grant_v and_o do_v it_o not_o then_o follow_v 308._o that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n opinion_n be_v the_o safe_a upon_o your_o own_o ground_n no_o say_v you_o for_o it_o be_v not_o such_o a_o common_a consent_n as_o do_v exclude_v the_o manner_n of_o presence_n by_o trans_fw-la or_o consubstantiation_n but_o how_o senseless_a a_o answer_n be_v this_o for_o the_o argument_n proceed_v so_o far_o as_o all_o be_v agree_v and_o the_o church_n of_o england_n assert_v that_o real_a presence_n which_o all_o acknowledge_v as_o simple_o necessary_a in_o order_n to_o the_o effect_n of_o it_o her_o communion_n be_v more_o desirable_a on_o this_o account_n than_o of_o either_o of_o those_o church_n which_o offer_v to_o define_v the_o manner_n of_o christ_n presence_n since_o even_o the_o great_a man_n of_o your_o persuasion_n as_o suarez_n and_o bellarmin_n assert_v the_o belief_n of_o transubstantiation_n not_o to_o be_v simple_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o that_o the_o manner_n of_o it_o be_v secret_a and_o ineffable_a 309._o it_o be_v therefore_o quite_o beside_o the_o purpose_n when_o you_o offer_v to_o prove_v that_o suarez_n believe_v transubstantiation_n for_o although_o he_o do_v so_o yet_o since_o he_o grant_v it_o not_o simple_o necessary_a to_o do_v it_o his_o lordship_n argument_n in_o behalf_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n hold_v firm_a still_o unless_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o suarez_n hold_v the_o belief_n of_o that_o to_o be_v as_o necessary_a as_o the_o belief_n of_o the_o real_a and_o spiritual_a presence_n of_o christ._n but_o you_o after_z attempt_n at_o large_a to_o prove_v that_o the_o real_a participation_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n in_o your_o sense_n be_v quite_o different_a from_o that_o of_o protestant_n if_o you_o mean_v a_o corporal_a participation_n indeed_o it_o be_v so_o but_o that_o be_v not_o it_o which_o be_v now_o inquire_v after_o but_o whether_o you_o do_v not_o allow_v any_o real_a and_o spiritual_a presence_n of_o christ_n beside_o the_o corporal_a manducation_n of_o that_o you_o call_v his_o body_n by_o transubstantiation_n if_o you_o do_v not_o you_o will_v do_v well_o to_o show_v what_o effect_n that_o have_v upon_o the_o soul_n of_o man_n if_o you_o do_v then_o still_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v of_o the_o safe_a side_n which_o hold_v that_o in_o which_o all_o be_v agree_v which_o be_v as_o much_o as_o we_o be_v here_o concern_v to_o take_v notice_n of_o as_o to_o this_o subject_n the_o controversy_n itself_o have_v be_v so_o late_o handle_v 303._o 2._o his_o lordship_n instance_n in_o the_o article_n of_o our_o saviour_n christ_n descent_n into_o hell_n both_o be_v agree_v as_o to_o the_o article_n of_o descent_n but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n differ_v in_o the_o explication_n therefore_o it_o be_v safe_a hold_v with_o the_o church_n of_o england_n which_o own_v the_o article_n without_o define_v the_o manner_n but_o 317._o you_o say_v he_o proceed_v on_o a_o false_a supposition_n for_o both_o be_v not_o agree_v what_o be_v mean_v by_o hell_n whether_o it_o be_v the_o place_n of_o the_o damn_a or_o no_o but_o this_o do_v belong_v to_o the_o manner_n of_o explication_n and_o not_o to_o the_o article_n itself_o which_o both_o equal_o own_o and_o therefore_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v the_o advantage_n there_o 3._o he_o instance_n in_o the_o institution_n of_o the_o sacrament_n in_o both_o kind_n in_o which_o it_o be_v agree_v by_o both_o church_n that_o christ_n do_v institute_v it_o so_o and_o the_o primitive_a church_n receive_v it_o so_o therefore_o according_a to_o the_o former_a rule_n ibid._n it_o be_v safe_a for_o a_o man_n to_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n in_o both_o kind_n this_o you_o say_v be_v as_o little_a to_o the_o purpose_n as_o the_o former_a because_o you_o do_v not_o agree_v that_o he_o do_v it_o with_o a_o intention_n or_o give_v any_o command_n that_o it_o shall_v be_v always_o so_o receive_v but_o still_o you_o be_v quite_o beside_o the_o business_n for_o that_o be_v not_o our_o question_n but_o whether_o it_o be_v more_o safe_a to_o adhere_v to_o that_o which_o christ_n institute_v and_o the_o primitive_a church_n practise_v as_o you_o confess_v yourselves_o or_o to_o your_o church_n which_o prohibit_v the_o do_v that_o which_o you_o confess_v christ_n and_o the_o primitive_a church_n do_v and_o we_o see_v how_o great_a your_o charity_n be_v when_o you_o deny_v a_o possibility_n of_o salvation_n to_o those_o who_o assert_v that_o christ_n institution_n be_v unalterable_a 318._o or_o that_o all_o who_o communicate_v be_v bind_v to_o receive_v in_o both_o kind_n for_o all_o other_o thing_n concern_v this_o subject_n i_o must_v refer_v the_o reader_n to_o the_o precedent_a chapter_n 306._o in_o which_o they_o be_v full_o discuss_v 4._o the_o dissent_v church_n agree_v that_o in_o the_o eucharist_n there_o be_v a_o sacrifice_n of_o duty_n and_o a_o sacrifice_n of_o praise_n and_o a_o sacrifice_n of_o commemoration_n therefore_o it_o be_v safe_a to_o hold_v to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n in_o this_o and_o leave_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o her_o superstition_n that_o i_o say_v no_o more_o 319._o here_o you_o still_o pretend_v you_o differ_v in_o sense_n but_o all_o this_o be_v only_o to_o say_v you_o assert_v more_o than_o we_o do_v which_o we_o grant_v but_o assert_v upon_o your_o principle_n that_o we_o be_v on_o the_o safe_a side_n and_o so_o in_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o priest_n you_o agree_v with_o we_o as_o to_o the_o necessity_n of_o matter_n and_o form_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v safe_a hold_v to_o that_o 307._o than_o believe_v the_o necessity_n of_o the_o priest_n intention_n which_o many_o deny_v and_o if_o the_o rule_n do_v hold_v as_o you_o assert_v that_o that_o which_o both_o be_v agree_v in_o be_v safe_a than_o the_o contrary_a it_o will_v hold_v in_o matter_n of_o opinion_n too_o that_o it_o be_v safe_a to_o believe_v no_o more_o be_v necessary_a to_o the_o sacrament_n than_o both_o party_n be_v agree_v in_o the_o last_o instance_n be_v that_o we_o say_v there_o be_v divers_a error_n and_o some_o gross_a one_o in_o the_o roman_a missal_n but_o you_o confess_v there_o be_v no_o positive_a error_n in_o the_o liturgy_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v safe_a to_o worship_n god_n by_o that_o and_o not_o by_o the_o roman_a mass._n this_o you_o answer_v as_o all_o the_o rest_n by_o run_v off_o from_o the_o business_n 320._o for_o you_o say_v it_o can_v be_v safe_a to_o use_v that_o because_o you_o catholic_n say_v that_o to_o use_v it_o in_o contempt_n of_o the_o roman_a missal_n be_v certain_o damnable_a sin_n and_o destructive_a of_o salvation_n but_o as_o it_o be_v not_o material_a what_o you_o say_v in_o this_o case_n so_o it_o be_v not_o at_o all_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o if_o your_o rule_n hold_v good_a it_o must_v be_v safe_a and_o if_o it_o be_v not_o you_o must_v confess_v the_o principle_n be_v false_a that_o what_o both_o party_n agree_v in_o be_v the_o safe_a to_o be_v choose_v in_o religion_n the_o same_o may_v be_v at_o large_a prove_v concern_v the_o main_a thing_n in_o difference_n between_o we_o that_o if_o this_o principle_n be_v true_a we_o have_v very_o much_o the_o advantage_n of_o you_o as_o you_o and_o we_o be_v agree_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v god_n word_n but_o we_o deny_v that_o tradition_n be_v so_o therefore_o it_o be_v safe_a adhere_v to_o the_o scripture_n and_o let_v tradition_n shift_v for_o itself_o you_o and_o we_o be_v agree_v that_o there_o be_v sufficient_a motive_n of_o credibility_n to_o believe_v the_o scripture_n but_o we_o deny_v that_o there_o be_v any_o such_o motive_n to_o believe_v the_o present_a church_n infallibility_n therefore_o it_o be_v safe_a to_o believe_v the_o scripture_n than_o the_o present_a church_n so_o that_o this_o principle_n if_o improve_v by_o these_o and_o other_o instance_n will_v redound_v more_o to_o our_o advantage_n than_o you_o consider_v that_o in_o the_o case_n we_o grant_v it_o as_o to_o you_o it_o be_v join_v with_o a_o protestation_n of_o the_o extreme_a hazard_n which_o those_o run_v who_o venture_v on_o your_o communion_n on_o the_o account_n of_o it_o but_o there_o be_v no_o such_o danger_n upon_o the_o agreement_n with_o we_o in_o those_o principle_n which_o be_v agree_v upon_o between_o we_o 3._o his_o lordship_n answer_v true_o that_o this_o proposition_n 9_o that_o in_o point_n of_o faith_n and_o salvation_n 288._o it_o be_v safe_a for_o a_o man_n to_o take_v that_o way_n which_o the_o
do_v as_o bellarmin_n contend_v elsewhere_o contradict_v this_o by_o so_o much_o the_o less_o be_v his_o testimony_n of_o any_o validity_n in_o this_o case_n it_o be_v plain_a what_o his_o meaning_n be_v here_o but_o that_o seem_v the_o less_o probable_a because_o he_o write_v his_o book_n against_o the_o pelagian_n in_o which_o he_o assert_v the_o same_o not_o long_o before_o his_o death_n this_o purge_a fire_n then_o of_o st._n hierome_n make_v little_a for_o your_o purpose_n since_o it_o be_v only_o a_o more_o refine_a branch_n of_o origen_n hypothesis_n and_o be_v understand_v of_o a_o fire_n after_o the_o resurrection_n and_o that_o of_o hell_n and_o not_o of_o purgatory_n and_o wherein_o wicked_a man_n shall_v be_v purge_v if_o they_o die_v in_o the_o church_n communion_n and_o not_o such_o who_o repent_v of_o their_o sin_n in_o this_o life_n but_o if_o st._n hierom_n himself_o do_v not_o speak_v to_o the_o purpose_n you_o hope_v one_o under_o his_o name_n may_v do_v it_o and_o we_o must_v needs_o say_v purgatory_n have_v be_v always_o behold_v to_o forgery_n for_o you_o cite_v his_o commentary_n on_o the_o proverb_n which_o be_v reject_v as_o counterfeit_v by_o sixtus_n senensis_n canus_n marianus_n victorius_n and_o bellarmin_n himself_o but_o from_o st._n hierome_n we_o proceed_v to_o st._n basil_n who_o you_o say_v teach_v the_o same_o doctrine_n with_o he_o 12._o 365._o if_o he_o do_v it_o be_v very_o little_a for_o your_o comfort_n but_o so_o far_o be_v st._n basil_n from_o assert_v your_o doctrine_n that_o although_o he_o speak_v of_o a_o purge_a fire_n he_o speak_v not_o at_o all_o concern_v it_o in_o another_o life_n but_o only_o of_o that_o which_o purge_v out_o sin_n in_o the_o soul_n of_o man_n in_o this_o life_n 9_o for_o he_o call_v the_o spirit_n of_o god_n work_v upon_o man_n soul_n that_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o consume_v sin_n within_o they_o as_o may_v be_v see_v by_o compare_v his_o commentary_n on_o the_o six_o and_o the_o nine_o of_o isaiah_n together_o and_o where_o he_o afterward_o speak_v not_o of_o a_o utter_a rejection_n but_o a_o expurgation_n as_o by_o fire_n it_o be_v plain_a that_o he_o understand_v it_o of_o the_o fire_n of_o affliction_n in_o this_o life_n and_o not_o the_o fire_n of_o purgatory_n in_o another_o but_o where_o ever_o you_o meet_v with_o fire_n and_o purge_v you_o think_v it_o impossible_a to_o be_v understand_v of_o any_o thing_n but_o your_o purgatory_n it_o seem_v you_o be_v huge_o possess_v with_o the_o fear_n of_o it_o that_o you_o think_v you_o meet_v with_o it_o where_o ever_o you_o go_v but_o if_o you_o will_v needs_o have_v st._n basil_n to_o speak_v of_o a_o future_a state_n 39_o than_o your_o own_o sixtus_n senensis_n and_o estius_n will_v tell_v you_o that_o he_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o the_o fire_n of_o conflagration_n at_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n of_o which_o he_o speak_v in_o several_a other_o place_n and_o so_o nicetas_n understand_v the_o place_n of_o gregory_n nazianzen_n which_o you_o produce_v about_o baptism_n by_o fire_n for_o say_v he_o per_fw-la ignis_fw-la baptismum_fw-la examen_fw-la censuramque_fw-la divini_fw-la judicii_fw-la intelligit_fw-la and_o for_o that_o cite_v the_o place_n of_o the_o apostle_n every_o man_n work_n shall_v be_v try_v by_o fire_n this_o he_o call_v elsewhere_o the_o last_o fire_n by_o which_o our_o work_n shall_v be_v judge_v and_o purge_v and_o of_o this_o lactantius_n and_o hilary_n 26._o be_v to_o be_v understand_v for_o hilary_n express_o say_v that_o even_o the_o virgin_n mary_n shall_v pass_v through_o it_o who_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o place_v in_o purgatory_n 118._o the_o testimony_n of_o boethius_n shall_v then_o be_v take_v when_o you_o prove_v that_o he_o do_v not_o speak_v in_o the_o person_n of_o a_o philosopher_n but_o of_o a_o christian_a deliver_v matter_n of_o faith_n with_o a_o ut_fw-la puto_fw-la but_o if_o you_o have_v consider_v the_o design_n of_o his_o book_n for_o the_o sake_n of_o philosophy_n you_o may_v have_v spare_v his_o citation_n and_o so_o you_o may_v for_o your_o own_o sake_n that_o of_o theodoret_n which_o not_o only_o the_o greek_n in_o their_o apology_n cry_v out_o on_o as_o counterfeit_v 367._o but_o no_o such_o place_n as_o yet_o appear_v in_o any_o edition_n of_o theodoret._n and_o the_o same_o greek_n tell_v you_o if_o you_o consult_v the_o honour_n of_o gregory_n nyssen_n you_o will_v spare_v he_o too_o because_o he_o be_v a_o favourer_n of_o the_o origenical_a hypothesis_n concern_v the_o redintegration_n of_o all_o thing_n and_o so_o many_o place_n be_v produce_v out_o of_o he_o wherein_o he_o make_v the_o nature_n of_o all_o pain_n to_o be_v purgatory_n that_o the_o patriarch_n germanus_n of_o who_o photius_n speak_v have_v no_o other_o way_n to_o vindicate_v he_o 233._o but_o by_o say_v that_o the_o origenist_n have_v foist_v many_o place_n into_o his_o work_n if_o you_o will_v therefore_o say_v that_o it_o be_v a_o 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hâc_fw-la vitâ_fw-la tantum_fw-la homines_fw-la ista_fw-la patiuntur_fw-la 16._o sive_fw-la etiam_fw-la post_fw-la hanc_fw-la vitam_fw-la talia_fw-la quaedam_fw-la judicia_fw-la subsequuntur_fw-la non_fw-la abhorret_fw-la quantum_fw-la arbitror_fw-la à _fw-la ratione_fw-la veritatis_fw-la iste_fw-la intellectus_fw-la huius_fw-la sententiae_fw-la whether_o say_v he_o man_n suffer_v these_o thing_n in_o this_o life_n or_o such_o judgement_n follow_v after_o it_o i_o suppose_v this_o sense_n of_o s._n paul_n be_v meaning_n be_v not_o dissonant_n from_o truth_n so_o far_o be_v he_o from_o be_v certain_a of_o it_o that_o he_o put_v in_o quantum_fw-la arbitror_fw-la as_o far_o as_o i_o suppose_v and_o yet_o he_o will_v not_o define_v whether_o that_o loss_n which_o they_o be_v to_o suffer_v be_v only_o in_o this_o life_n or_o no._n and_o in_o his_o enchiridion_n to_o laurentius_n where_o he_o dispute_v the_o very_a same_o matter_n 69._o he_o say_v tale_n aliquid_fw-la post_fw-la hanc_fw-la vitam_fw-la fieri_fw-la incredibile_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la &_o utrum_fw-la ita_fw-la sit_fw-la quaeri_fw-la potest_fw-la &_o aut_fw-la inveniri_fw-la aut_fw-la latere_fw-la nonnullos_fw-la fideles_fw-la per_fw-la ignem_fw-la quendam_fw-la purgatorium_fw-la quanto_fw-la magis_fw-la minusve_fw-la bona_fw-la pereuntia_fw-la dilexerunt_fw-la tanto_fw-la tardius_fw-la citiusve_fw-la salvari_fw-la it_o be_v not_o incredible_a that_o such_o a_o thing_n shall_v be_v after_o this_o life_n and_o it_o may_v be_v inquire_v after_o whether_o it_o be_v find_v to_o be_v so_o or_o no_o that_o some_o faithful_a soul_n pass_v through_o a_o purge_a fire_n and_o be_v save_v soon_o or_o late_a according_a to_o the_o degree_n of_o their_o affection_n to_o worldly_a thing_n will_v any_o man_n in_o his_o wit_n think_v that_o st._n austin_n speak_v this_o of_o any_o matter_n of_o faith_n or_o that_o be_v general_o receive_v in_o the_o church_n as_o a_o apostolical_a tradition_n do_v