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opinion_n believe_v church_n rome_n 1,244 5 6.6932 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A64146 An answer to a book entituled An account of the Church Catholike where it was before the Reformation; and whether Rome were or be the Church Catholike. Wherein is proved, that the Catholike Church never was, nor can be distinct from that which is now called, the Church of Rome. By R.T. Esquire. R. T. 1654 (1654) Wing T42; ESTC R221978 68,689 169

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&_o tenerent_fw-la we_o think_v fit_a etc._n etc._n that_o all_o our_o fellow_n bishop_n may_v steadfast_o approve_v of_o and_o embrace_v you_o and_o your_o communion_n that_o be_v the_o catholic_a church_n unity_n and_o charity_n be_v it_o not_o plain_a by_o these_o word_n that_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n consist_v in_o the_o communion_n with_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o if_o there_o be_v no_o catholic_a unity_n but_o in_o communion_n with_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n it_o be_v apparent_o impossible_a that_o any_o one_o can_v be_v unite_v to_o the_o catholic_a church_n that_o be_v not_o in_o communion_n with_o the_o bishop_n and_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n beside_o that_o the_o church_n be_v build_v upon_o s._n peter_n and_o his_o successor_n i_o have_v already_o full_o prove_v sect._n 25._o and_o sect._n 58._o to_o which_o i_o will_v add_v one_o testimony_n more_o out_o of_o s._n cyprian_n epist_n ad_fw-la quintinum_fw-la nam_fw-la nec_fw-la petrus_n quem_fw-la primum_fw-la elegit_fw-la &_o super_fw-la quem_fw-la aedificavit_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la svam_fw-la etc._n etc._n for_o neither_o peter_n who_o our_o lord_n choose_v to_o be_v the_o first_o and_o upon_o who_o he_o build_v his_o church_n etc._n etc._n the_o like_a word_n he_o have_v ser._n 3._o de_fw-fr bon_fw-fr pat_o whosoever_o then_o forsake_v the_o foundation_n can_v be_v part_n of_o the_o house_n or_o building_n the_o whole_a building_n rest_v upon_o the_o foundation_n wherefore_o he_o that_o be_v separate_v from_o the_o foundation_n be_v separate_v also_o from_o the_o build_n which_o be_v the_o house_n the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o you_o must_v remember_v doctor_n that_o s._n cyprian_n live_v in_o the_o year_n of_o christ_n 250._o and_o therefore_o long_o within_o the_o first_o 500_o year_n to_o which_o you_o have_v appeal_v sect._n 27._o so_o that_o you_o must_v either_o confess_v the_o prorestant_o to_o be_v out_o of_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n and_o consequent_o schismatical_a at_o the_o least_o or_o else_o you_o must_v revoke_v and_o renounce_v your_o appeal_n if_o you_o will_v say_v that_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n appear_v not_o full_o in_o the_o writing_n of_o particular_a father_n you_o shall_v hear_v the_o confession_n and_o acknowledgement_n of_o 520._o father_n assemble_v in_o the_o four_o general_n council_n at_o chalcedon_n in_o the_o year_n of_o christ_n 451._o who_o all_o unanimous_o acknowledge_v pope_n leo_n their_o head_n their_o word_n be_v quibus_fw-la tu_fw-la quidem_fw-la sicut_fw-la membris_fw-la caput_fw-la praera_n over_o who_o that_o be_v the_o father_n assemble_v in_o the_o council_n thou_o be_v as_o the_o head_n over_o the_o member_n and_o it_o be_v to_o be_v observe_v that_o this_o council_n be_v hold_v in_o the_o eastern_a church_n and_o consist_v for_o the_o most_o part_n of_o the_o father_n of_o that_o church_n wherein_o notwithstanding_o pope_n leo_n delegate_n sit_v in_o the_o 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their_o delegate_n let_v we_o then_o hear_v the_o whole_a church_n speak_v in_o that_o council_n item_n definimus_fw-la sanctam_fw-la apostolicam_fw-la sedem_fw-la &_o romanum_fw-la pontificem_fw-la in_o universum_fw-la orbem_fw-la tenere_fw-la primatum_fw-la etc._n etc._n council_z florent_fw-la act._n ult_n also_o we_o declare_v that_o the_o holy_a apostolic_a sea_n and_o bishop_n of_o rome_n have_v the_o primacy_n over_o the_o whole_a world_n and_o that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n be_v s._n peter_n successor_n who_o be_v chief_a of_o the_o apostle_n and_o that_o he_o be_v christ_n true_a vicar_n and_o head_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n the_o father_n and_o doctor_n of_o all_o christian_n and_o that_o in_o s._n peter_n full_a power_n be_v give_v to_o he_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n by_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n to_o feed_v rule_n and_o govern_v the_o whole_a church_n to_o this_o definition_n subscribe_v all_o the_o patriarch_n of_o the_o church_n and_o among_o the_o rest_n the_o patriarch_n of_o constantinople_n himself_o you_o shall_v have_v his_o subscription_n as_o it_o be_v set_v down_o in_o the_o act_n of_o the_o council_n joseph_n miseration_n divinâ_fw-la constantinopolis_n etc._n etc._n florent_fw-la an._n 1439._o i_o joseph_n by_o the_o mercy_n of_o god_n archbishop_n of_o constantinople_n and_o new_a rome_n and_o universal_a patriarch_n because_o my_o life_n be_v almost_o at_o a_o end_n do_v therefore_o by_o the_o goodness_n of_o god_n according_a to_o my_o duty_n publish_v this_o my_o opinion_n to_o my_o belove_a son_n in_o this_o write_n for_o all_o those_o thing_n which_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n catholic_n and_o apostolic_a church_n of_o old_a rome_n believe_v and_o embrace_n i_o profess_v that_o i_o also_o do_v hold_v and_o believe_v and_o full_o consent_v unto_o they_o and_o i_o grant_v that_o the_o bless_a father_n of_o father_n and_o chief_a priest_n the_o pope_n of_o old_a rome_n be_v our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n vcar_n and_o i_o 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the_o church_n of_o rome_n by_o her_o power_n and_o jurisdiction_n diffuse_v herself_o
question_v but_o deny_v that_o this_o doctrine_n of_o your_o 19_o article_n can_v consist_v with_o your_o opinion_n who_o hold_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v a_o true_a church_n a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n catholic_a though_o according_a to_o divers_a of_o your_o article_n cite_v by_o mr._n t._n b._n n._n 3._o she_o neither_o preach_v the_o pure_a word_n of_o god_n nor_o due_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n no_o not_o in_o all_o those_o thing_n that_o of_o necessity_n be_v requisite_a for_o the_o same_o for_o how_o can_v that_o be_v essential_o a_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n which_o observe_v not_o that_o which_o be_v essential_a to_o the_o catholic_a church_n as_o be_v the_o preach_n of_o the_o pure_a word_n of_o god_n and_o the_o due_a administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n according_a to_o that_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n in_o your_o 19_o article_n beside_o how_o can_v you_o vindicate_v that_o church_n from_o heresy_n that_o for_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n teach_v blasphemous_a fable_n art_n 31._o or_o that_o sacrilegious_o rob_v the_o laity_n of_o christ_n blood_n with_o which_o you_o charge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n sect._n 11._o of_o your_o first_o answer_n or_o that_o maintain_v doctrine_n repugnant_a to_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n sect._n 24._o ib._n or_o that_o err_v in_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n as_o you_o tax_v the_o church_n of_o rome●_n sect._n 14._o of_o your_o second_o answer_n or_o that_o give_v divine_a worship_n to_o image_n and_o relic_n wherewith_o you_o charge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n sect._n 34._o ib._n can_v any_o church_n be_v blasphemous_a sacrilegious_a idolatrous_a repugnant_a in_o her_o doctrine_n to_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n erroneus_fw-la in_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n and_o yet_o not_o be_v heretical_a but_o continue_v still_o essential_o a_o true_a church_n but_o because_o you_o be_v please_v to_o extend_v your_o charity_n beyond_o reason_n towards_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n i_o will_v not_o quarrel_v with_o you_o about_o it_o only_o i_o must_v take_v notice_n of_o the_o argument_n which_o you_o bring_v to_o prove_v it_o god_n say_v you_o blame_v the_o church_n of_o pergamos_n for_o endure_v the_o seat_n of_o satan_n within_o her_o diocese_n as_o also_o for_o hold_v that_o ●didous_a doctrine_n of_o the_o nicolaitan_n and_o yet_o grant_v she_o to_o be_v a_o church_n answ_n herein_o you_o be_v much_o mistake_v doctor_n for_o god_n blame_v not_o the_o church_n but_o the_o angel_n of_o the_o church_n of_o pergamos_n which_o by_o many_o catholic_a expositor_n both_o ancient_n and_o modern_a as_o also_o by_o divers_a of_o your_o own_o sect_n and_o religion_n be_v interpret_v the_o bishop_n of_o the_o church_n if_o the_o church_n of_o pergamos_n have_v hold_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o nicolaitan_n she_o have_v be_v heretical_a and_o consequent_o no_o church_n but_o it_o be_v the_o bishop_n not_o the_o church_n that_o be_v heretical_a 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from_o s._n hilary_n testimony_n who_o profess_v as_o you_o say_v that_o in_o these_o western_a part_n there_o be_v in_o his_o time_n no_o christian_a communion_n but_o in_o france_n answ_n you_o do_v well_o to_o put_v those_o word_n in_o these_o western_a part_n in_o a_o parenthesis_n for_o they_o be_v you_o not_o s._n hilary_n as_o may_v appear_v by_o his_o word_n by_o you_o cite_v sect._n 23._o where_o those_o word_n caeteris_fw-la extra_fw-la gallias_n may_v comprehend_v the_o eastern_a as_o well_o as_o the_o western_a church_n and_o if_o you_o read_v ecclesiastical_a history_n you_o shall_v find_v that_o in_o s._n hilary_n time_n the_o eastern_a church_n be_v far_o more_o infect_v with_o arrianism_n than_o the_o western_a 62._o beside_o you_o may_v remember_v doctor_n that_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o this_o second_o answer_n you_o confess_v that_o in_o s._n hilary_n time_n at_o that_o very_a time_n when_o rome_n as_o you_o false_o say_v be_v arrian_n sardinia_n be_v a_o catholic_a and_o orthodox_n church_n how_o can_v that_o agree_v with_o this_o which_o you_o here_o endeavour_v to_o prove_v out_o of_o s._n hilary_n be_v not_o sardinia_n part_v of_o the_o western_a church_n how_o then_o can_v all_o the_o western_a part_n be_v exclude_v from_o christian_a communion_n beside_o france_n when_o sardinia_n which_o be_v in_o these_o western_a part_n be_v as_o yourself_o confess_v a_o catholic_a and_o orthodox_n church_n how_o can_v these_o two_o possible_o consist_v together_o it_o seem_v you_o have_v forget_v yourself_o oportet_fw-la mendacem_fw-la esse_fw-la memorem_fw-la 60._o after_o all_o the_o other_o pope_n faelix_fw-la be_v bring_v in_o for_o communicate_v with_o arrian_n and_o socrates_n and_o zozoman_n be_v allege_v to_o prove_v that_o therefore_o rome_n itself_o be_v then_o account_v arrian_n what_o then_o say_v socrates_n that_o liberius_n be_v banish_v for_o his_o constancy_n in_o defend_v the_o catholic_a faith_n
charge_n let_v we_o see_v then_o how_o they_o prove_v it_o plarina_n and_o onuphrius_n be_v produce_v to_o prove_v that_o schism_n be_v raise_v there_o what_o then_o be_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n therefore_o schismatical_a because_o some_o raise_v a_o schism_n there_o i_o tell_v you_o before_o that_o the_o author_n only_o of_o the_o schism_n and_o those_o that_o adhere_v to_o they_o be_v the_o schismatic_n they_o have_v forsake_v the_o church_n they_o have_v cut_v themselves_o off_o from_o christ_n body_n the_o church_n itself_o remain_v still_o sound_a and_o entire_a but_o that_o stella_n and_o almain_n shall_v charge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n with_o heresy_n to_o say_v no_o more_o be_v most_o false_a i_o must_v once_o more_o put_v you_o in_o mind_n what_o stella_n say_v in_o the_o place_n by_o you_o cite_v luc._n 22._o 31._o ecclesia_fw-la antiochena_fw-la alexandrina_n &_o constantinopolitana_n saepe_fw-la defecerunt_fw-la à_fw-la fide_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la verò_fw-la romana_fw-la nunquam_fw-la defecit_fw-la the_o church_n of_o antioch_n alexandria_n and_o constantinople_n have_v often_o fall_v from_o the_o faith_n but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n 〈◊〉_d fall_v from_o the_o faith_n remember_v 〈…〉_o and_o never_o produce_v stella_fw-la 〈…〉_o purpose_n and_o what_o if_o there_o 〈◊〉_d many_o ●nd_n great_a sinner_n in_o the_o church_n 〈…〉_o what_o be_v this_o to_o her_o faith_n and_o 〈…〉_o what_o if_o she_o want_v reformation_n 〈…〉_o manner_n and_o discipline_n what_o be_v that_o to_o her_o belief_n what_o if_o s●me_a pope_n have_v be_v vicious_a be_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n therefore_o vicious_a and_o what_o if_o some_o pope_n of_o rome_n have_v fall_v from_o their_o faith_n must_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n therefore_o forsake_v her_o faith_n there_o be_v a_o time_n you_o say_v out_o of_o baronius_n an._n christi_fw-la 908._o n._n 5._o and_o an._n 931._o n._n 1._o when_o marozia_n and_o her_o daughter_n a_o couple_n of_o lewd_a strumpet_n dispose_v of_o the_o popedom_n for_o many_o year_n so_o that_o none_o possess_v that_o chair_n but_o boy_n fool_n and_o kuaves_n answ_n i_o pray_v tell_v i_o doctor_n do_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n at_o that_o time_n consist_v only_o of_o boy_n fool_n and_o knave_n when_o the_o pope_n be_v boy_n wasthere_o not_o one_o man_n woman_n or_o child_n in_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o rome_n or_o when_o they_o be_v fool_n or_o knave_n be_v there_o then_o no_o wise_a or_o honest_a man_n in_o that_o church_n these_o consequence_n must_v follow_v as_o well_o as_o the_o other_o for_o if_o it_o follow_v that_o because_o some_o pope_n have_v be_v vicious_a therefore_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o rome_n in_o those_o day_n be_v also_o vition_n or_o because_o marcellinus_n liberius_n and_o 10._o 22._o deny_v jesus_n christ_n to_o be_v the_o true_a god_n and_o eternal_a life_n therefore_o in_o those_o day_n rome_n be_v no_o church_n but_o a_o antichristian_a synagogue_n as_o you_o infer_v sect._n 17._o it_o follow_v as_o necessary_o that_o because_o some_o pope_n have_v be_v boy_n therefore_o in_o those_o time_n the_o church_n of_o rome_n consist_v only_o of_o boy_n and_o that_o there_o be_v neither_o man_n woman_n nor_o child_n in_o the_o whole_a church_n as_o likewise_o because_o some_o pope_n have_v be_v fool_n and_o knave_n that_o therefore_o at_o that_o time_n there_o be_v no_o wise_a nor_o honest_a man_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o such_o miserable_a and_o ridiculous_a shift_n be_v heretic_n drive_v who_o pride_n and_o obstinacy_n be_v such_o that_o they_o will_v rather_o damn_v their_o own_o soul_n then_o confess_v their_o error_n 47._o but_o by_o the_o way_n doctor_z i_o must_v desire_v you_o to_o observe_v that_o those_o pope_n who_o b●ronius_n complain_v of_o in_o the_o place_n by_o you_o cite_v an._n 908._o nu_fw-la 5._o and_o an._n 931._o nu_fw-la 1._o be_v but_o pseudo-popes_n not_o lawful_o elect_v but_o intrude_a into_o the_o papacy_n by_o the_o power_n of_o the_o marquess_n of_o tuscany_n his_o word_n be_v these_o mortuo_fw-la stephano_n potentia_fw-la widonis_fw-la tusciae_fw-la marchionis_n &_o maroziae_fw-la matris_fw-la sergii_n pseudo-popae_a exdicto_fw-la scorto_fw-la marozia_fw-la filius_fw-la etc._n etc._n an._n 931._o where_o you_o find_v sergius_n mention_v in_o your_o former_a citation_n an._n 908._o but_o a_o pse●do-pope_n a_o mere_a usurper_n and_o his_o bastard_n john_n make_v pope_n after_o stephen_n by_o the_o power_n uvido_z marquess_z os_fw-la tuscany_n and_o a_o little_a after_o he_o have_v these_o word_n it_o à_fw-la planè_fw-la tantae_fw-la vires_fw-la marchionibus_fw-la tusciae_fw-la in_o urbe_fw-la erant_fw-la ut_fw-la pro_fw-la arbitrio_fw-la quos_fw-la vellent_fw-la ●_o pontificiali_fw-la sede_fw-la deponerent_fw-la &_o alios_fw-la intruderent_fw-la here_o you_o see_v those_o prince_n so_o powerful_a in_o rome_n that_o they_o can_v dispose_v and_o set_v up_o what_o pope_n they_o please_v and_o i_o must_v desire_v you_o good_a doctor_n to_o take_v this_o also_o along_o with_o you_o and_o that_o from_o baronius_n that_o in_o all_o the_o time_n of_o those_o wicked_a usurp_a schismatical_a pope_n god_n providence_n be_v over_o his_o church_n that_o notwithstanding_o these_o distract_a and_o calamitous_a time_n yet_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v preserve_v free_a both_o from_o schism_n and_o heresy_n for_o have_v you_o cast_v your_o eye_n but_o a_o little_a far_o from_o nu_fw-la 5._o to_o nu_fw-la 7._o you_o shall_v have_v find_v these_o word_n cùm_fw-la tanta_fw-la ista_fw-la urgerent_n ho_o saeculo_fw-la mala_fw-la &_o scandala_fw-la increbrescerent_fw-la tamen_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la inventus_fw-la qui_fw-la eâ_fw-la de_fw-fr causâ_fw-la se_fw-la ab_fw-la ip●â_fw-la ecclesiâ_fw-la romanâ_fw-la abscinderet_fw-la schismate_fw-la aut_fw-la heresi_n eandem_fw-la impugnaret_fw-la sed_fw-la omnes_fw-la ubique●entium_fw-la eidem_fw-la fidei_fw-la vinculo_fw-la &_o obedientiae_fw-la foedere_fw-la juncti_fw-la persistebant_fw-la an._n 908._o n._n 7._o you_o see_v then_o that_o baronius_n can_v not_o see_v your_o consequence_n that_o because_o there_o be_v some_o tyrannical_a usurp_a and_o schismatical_a pope_n therefore_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o rome_n must_v fail_v or_o become_v schismatical_a and_o i_o be_o somewhat_o confident_a that_o d._n boughen_n be_v the_o first_o that_o ever_o discover_v this_o undiscoverable_a consequence_n 48._o those_o other_o word_n that_o you_o produce_v our_o of_o baronius_n an._n 373._o n._n 21._o whereby_o you_o will_v make_v the_o world_n believe_v that_o baronius_n hold_v a_o opinion_n that_o the_o pope_n by_o his_o own_o authority_n may_v make_v and_o alter_v decree_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n as_o he_o please_v be_v to_o be_v understand_v only_o thus_o that_o the_o pop_z with_o the_o advice_n of_o his_o bishop_n may_v in_o a_o private_a council_n for_o the_o peace_n and_o quietness_n of_o the_o church_n till_o a_o general_n council_n may_v be_v call_v publish_v decree_n concern_v doctrine_n of_o faith_n as_o also_o revoke_v or_o alter_v such_o decree_n according_a as_o it_o shall_v be_v find_v necessary_a or_o convenient_a for_o the_o peace_n and_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n but_o that_o the_o pope_n can_v of_o himself_o revoke_v or_o alter_v the_o decree_n determination_n or_o definition_n of_o general_a counsel_n concern_v doctrine_n of_o faith_n this_o baronius_n never_o teach_v he_o be_v too_o great_a a_o scholar_n and_o too_o good_a a_o catholic_n to_o maintain_v such_o a_o temerarious_a i_o may_v say_v heretical_a doctrine_n and_o that_o this_o be_v the_o meaning_n of_o baronius_n in_o that_o place_n may_v appear_v by_o the_o context_n of_o his_o narration_n where_o he_o declare_v the_o readiness_n of_o s._n gregory_n nazianzen_n to_o acquiesce_v and_o submit_v to_o the_o decree_n of_o pope_n damasus_n who_o then_o govern_v the_o church_n upon_o a_o supposition_n that_o the_o pope_n have_v admit_v the_o apollinarian_o 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undertake_v a_o answer_n to_o d._n boughen_n not_o d._n lawd_n especial_o since_o this_o of_o d._n lawd_n be_v already_o sufficient_o