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opinion_n believe_v church_n rome_n 1,244 5 6.6932 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A29212 The second part of The great question concerning things indifferent in religious vvorship briefly stated, and tendred to the consideration of all conscientious and sober men / by the same author.; Great question concerning things indifferent in religious worship. Part 2 Bagshaw, Edward, 1629-1671. 1661 (1661) Wing B424; ESTC R22864 18,059 26

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to_o lie_v at_o the_o bottom_n and_o make_v he_o stoop_v to_o so_o mean_v a_o bondage_n some_o object_n that_o it_o be_v true_a by_o do_v these_o thing_n we_o offend_v our_o brother_n obj._n but_o then_o by_o refuse_v we_o shall_v offend_v the_o magistrate_n who_o be_v something_o more_o than_o our_o brother_n to_o who_o we_o owe_v not_o only_o the_o duty_n of_o love_n but_o likewise_o of_o subjection_n and_o therefore_o the_o less_o offence_n must_v give_v place_n to_o the_o great_a but_o i_o answer_v 1._o answ_n that_o if_o the_o magistrate_n have_v no_o power_n to_o impose_v as_o i_o have_v already_o prove_v than_o he_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o be_v offend_v at_o my_o refusal_n to_o obey_v he_o since_o eatenus_fw-la jus_o non_fw-la habet_fw-la and_o therefore_o i_o shall_v more_o scandalize_v i._n e._n give_v he_o a_o great_a occasion_n of_o sin_v by_o submit_v to_o then_o by_o quiet_a disow_v of_o his_o authority_n for_o by_o submit_v i_o shall_v beget_v this_o opinion_n in_o he_o that_o he_o do_v well_o to_o impose_v which_o be_v undoubted_o sinful_a whereas_o by_o disow_v his_o authority_n i_o only_o make_v myself_o liable_a to_o suffer_v which_o every_o good_a christian_n ought_v at_o all_o time_n to_o be_v prepare_v for_o 2._o our_o saviour_n have_v already_o teach_v we_o how_o little_o we_o be_v to_o care_v for_o the_o offence_n which_o man_n take_v at_o that_o sober_a and_o just_a use_n which_o we_o make_v of_o our_o liberty_n for_o when_o he_o refuse_v to_o wash_v his_o hand_n before_o meat_n which_o by_o the_o way_n be_v a_o rite_n much_o more_o innocent_a than_o those_o i_o now_o dispute_v of_o and_o give_v this_o for_o his_o ground_n that_o it_o be_v a_o plant_n not_o of_o his_o father_n plant_n his_o disciple_n seem_v to_o importune_v he_o to_o condescend_v unto_o the_o pharisee_n who_o be_v his_o lawful_a governor_n by_o urge_v that_o they_o be_v offend_v at_o his_o say_v but_o our_o saviour_n in_o stead_n of_o assent_v cry_v out_o let_v they_o alone_o they_o be_v blind_a guide_n with_o other_o word_n show_v that_o while_o they_o make_v use_v of_o their_o authority_n to_o press_v such_o needless_a toy_n it_o be_v his_o duty_n to_o disobey_v they_o which_o carriage_n of_o our_o saviour_n be_v so_o much_o the_o more_o remarkable_a in_o that_o when_o they_o come_v to_o demand_v tribute-money_n though_o he_o allege_v that_o by_o his_o birthright_n he_o be_v free_a from_o any_o such_o tax_n yet_o say_v he_o rather_o than_o offend_v they_o let_v we_o pay_v it_o plain_o imply_v that_o in_o civil_a thing_n not_o to_o stand_v too_o nice_o upon_o our_o term_n but_o for_o peace_n sake_n even_o to_o part_v with_o some_o of_o our_o right_n be_v honest_a and_o commendable_a but_o in_o religious_a thing_n we_o must_v not_o yield_v a_o tittle_n because_o in_o they_o the_o honour_n of_o god_n be_v immediate_o concern_v for_o as_o be_v lord_n of_o the_o conscience_n and_o sole_a dictator_n of_o what_o way_n he_o will_v be_v serve_v in_o he_o expect_v we_o shall_v upon_o all_o occasion_n open_o assert_v his_o right_n and_o neither_o teach_v for_o doctrine_n nor_o solemnize_v for_o worship_n the_o commandment_n of_o man_n for_o that_o i_o may_v obviate_v a_o exception_n of_o some_o who_o allege_v that_o these_o thing_n be_v not_o impose_v as_o doctrine_n when_o a_o ceremony_n come_v to_o be_v urge_v and_o press_v beyond_o the_o bound_n of_o a_o thing_n indifferent_a here_o though_o no_o doctrine_n be_v mention_v yet_o there_o be_v a_o doctrine_n couch_v under_o it_o and_o that_o be_v this_o which_o i_o have_v be_v all_o this_o while_n speak_v against_o that_o the_o magistrate_n have_v power_n to_o impose_v in_o religious_a worship_n so_o that_o when_o thing_n doubtful_a come_v upon_o that_o score_n to_o be_v obtrude_v we_o must_v resolute_o refuse_v to_o do_v they_o lest_o we_o shall_v seem_v to_o own_o and_o assent_v unto_o the_o doctrine_n to_o conclude_v therefore_o since_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n be_v so_o press_v as_o if_o the_o imposer_n think_v they_o necessary_a 2._o since_o many_o of_o they_o be_v very_o disputable_a 3._o since_o most_o of_o they_o be_v very_o scandalous_a and_o offensive_a to_o our_o weak_a brethren_n it_o follow_v that_o they_o be_v not_o in_o their_o own_o nature_n indifferent_a and_o therefore_o it_o can_v be_v lawful_a to_o practice_v they_o and_o so_o much_o for_o the_o three_o argument_n the_o four_o and_o last_o argument_n shall_v be_v take_v from_o the_o resemblance_n and_o correspondency_n which_o these_o thing_n have_v to_o other_o which_o we_o have_v already_o renounce_v in_o the_o popish_a worship_n as_o likewise_o from_o the_o impossibility_n that_o any_o rational_a or_o sober_a account_n can_v be_v give_v why_o we_o dissent_v from_o those_o if_o we_o assent_v to_o these_o for_o i_o will_v fain_o know_v wherein_o lie_v the_o true_a ground_n of_o our_o separation_n from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n if_o not_o in_o this_o because_o they_o obtrude_v such_o condition_n of_o communion_n which_o god_n word_n do_v not_o warrant_v we_o to_o assent_v to_o for_o let_v man_n speak_v as_o much_o as_o they_o please_v against_o image_n crucifix_n pray_v to_o saint_n or_o for_o the_o dead_a etc._n etc._n at_o last_o it_o will_v be_v find_v that_o the_o only_a firm_a and_o solid_a argument_n to_o overthrow_v all_o these_o thing_n be_v this_o they_o be_v not_o write_v god_n have_v no_o where_n in_o his_o word_n command_v such_o thing_n and_o therefore_o we_o may_v safe_o reject_v they_o but_o on_o the_o same_o score_n the_o cross_n the_o surplice_n bow_v kneel_v and_o the_o rest_n must_v be_v reject_v too_o as_o be_v equal_o uncommand_v for_o how_o can_v we_o satisfy_v any_o inquisitive_a man_n why_o in_o baptism_n we_o have_v cast_v off_o oil_n and_o retain_v the_o cross_n why_o in_o the_o other_o sacrament_n we_o retain_v kneel_v and_o refuse_v adoration_n why_o we_o bow_v to_o the_o name_n of_o jesus_n and_o yet_o be_v offend_v at_o a_o crucifix_n in_o short_a why_o we_o have_v pare_v away_o some_o rite_n either_o as_o idolatrous_a or_o else_o as_o superfluous_a and_o yet_o have_v retain_v other_o that_o be_v equal_o scandalous_a equal_o indefensible_a if_o we_o answer_v that_o we_o do_v it_o because_o every_o national_a church_n have_v power_n to_o judge_v of_o ceremony_n and_o to_o impose_v upon_o her_o subject_n as_o few_o or_o as_o many_o as_o she_o think_v fit_a will_v it_o not_o inevitable_o follow_v that_o our_o church_n may_v when_o she_o please_v bring_v in_o all_o those_o explode_a rite_n upon_o we_o and_o when_o she_o do_v so_o we_o be_v bind_v to_o submit_v unto_o her_o authority_n so_o that_o all_o the_o advantage_n we_o have_v get_v by_o our_o reformation_n which_o at_o the_o begin_n of_o it_o be_v the_o best_a and_o the_o most_o stupendous_a that_o ever_o the_o world_n see_v be_v only_o this_o that_o we_o have_v lop_v off_o some_o branch_n of_o popery_n but_o leave_v the_o root_n untouched_a as_o own_v that_o doctrine_n of_o imposition_n which_o may_v whenever_o the_o magistrate_n please_v bring_v in_o the_o outward_a practice_n of_o that_o religion_n again_o upon_o we_o i_o do_v not_o speak_v this_o as_o if_o i_o do_v in_o the_o least_o imagine_v that_o our_o governor_n do_v so_o much_o as_o dream_v of_o any_o such_o thing_n but_o i_o argue_v mere_o as_o a_o rational_a man_n and_o consider_v the_o nature_n of_o thing_n for_o since_o every_o man_n than_o act_v rational_o when_o he_o act_v conformable_o to_o the_o principle_n he_o hold_v therefore_o he_o that_o first_o mistake_v thing_n doubtful_a for_o thing_n indifferent_a and_o then_o maintain_v that_o the_o magistrate_n have_v power_n to_o make_v even_o thing_n doubtful_a necessary_a when_o he_o impose_v they_o he_o leave_v the_o magistrate_n free_a to_o bring_v in_o as_o much_o of_o the_o popish_a worship_n as_o he_o be_v please_v to_o think_v be_v either_o decent_a or_o convenient_a since_o then_o the_o cross_n the_o surplice_n etc._n etc._n be_v all_o of_o the_o same_o idolatrous_a nature_n and_o original_a with_o other_o part_n of_o romish_a worship_n which_o we_o have_v worthy_o reject_v as_o be_v coin_a in_o the_o unlicensed_a mint_n of_o man_n brain_n without_o the_o stamp_n of_o divine_a authority_n it_o follow_v that_o either_o we_o must_v not_o use_v they_o or_o else_o we_o must_v acknowledge_v that_o if_o oil_n for_o infant_n holy_a unction_n for_o the_o sick_a exorcism_n etc._n etc._n be_v enjoin_v we_o can_v lawful_o submit_v to_o they_o too_o and_o so_o never_o fix_v ourselves_o a_o certain_a point_n of_o religious_a practice_n but_o depend_v altogether_o upon_o the_o beck_n and_o pleasure_n of_o our_o magistrate_n against_o this_o i_o know_v not_o what_o can_v be_v object_v except_o as_o some_o affirm_v that_o the_o pope_n be_v not_o antichrist_n so_o other_o will_v take_v upon_o they_o to_o prove_v that_o popery_n be_v not_o idolatry_n if_o any_o protestant_n be_v of_o that_o mind_n i_o hope_v he_o think_v of_o return_v speedy_o to_o their_o communion_n but_o till_o i_o understand_v how_o picture_n may_v be_v make_v and_o place_v if_o not_o as_o object_n yet_o as_o help_n of_o devotion_n how_o saint_n can_v first_o be_v canonize_v and_o then_o pray_v to_o how_o the_o bread_n can_v be_v confine_v to_o a_o place_n and_o yet_o adore_v as_o god_n how_o the_o virgin_n mary_n beside_o be_v pray_v to_o can_v be_v entreat_v to_o command_v her_o son_n till_o i_o say_v i_o understand_v how_o these_o and_o many_o more_o such_o thing_n can_v be_v do_v and_o no_o idolatry_n commit_v i_o must_v take_v leave_n to_o affirm_v that_o if_o that_o church_n be_v not_o idolatrous_a there_o never_o be_v nor_o can_v be_v such_o a_o thing_n as_o idolatry_n in_o the_o world_n to_o conclude_v therefore_o i_o will_v acknowledge_v that_o use_v the_o cross_n though_o not_o in_o baptism_n be_v very_o ancient_a and_o mention_v more_o than_o once_o by_o tertullian_n apolog._n tertullian_n apolog._n that_o a_o peculiar_a reverence_n to_o the_o name_n of_o jesus_n be_v assert_v by_o origen_n cell_n origen_n lib._n adv_o cell_n that_o the_o worship_n of_o angel_n or_o something_o very_o like_o it_o be_v maintain_v by_o justin_n martyr_n 2._o martyr_n apolog._n 2._o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a as_o i_o remember_v by_o cyprian_a i_o be_o sure_a by_o tertullian_n apolog._n tertullian_n apolog._n purgatory_n by_o arnobius_n etc._n etc._n but_o yet_o these_o opinion_n which_o in_o those_o excellent_a writer_n who_o be_v new_o recover_v out_o of_o gentilism_n be_v very_o tolerable_a mistake_v and_o error_n do_v neither_o hurt_n they_o nor_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n till_o the_o world_n be_v grow_v lazy_a enough_o to_o believe_v and_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n have_v force_n enough_o to_o impose_v they_o as_o necessary_a doctrine_n this_o be_v that_o which_o not_o only_o diffuse_v but_o so_o far_o fix_v the_o fatal_a poison_n of_o error_n that_o the_o world_n can_v never_o expect_v to_o be_v free_v till_o it_o please_v god_n to_o raise_v up_o some_o generous_a and_o true_o heroic_a prince_n who_o may_v be_v convince_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o christian_a religion_n not_o by_o hear-say_n from_o other_o but_o by_o a_o through_o search_n and_o enquiry_n into_o the_o cause_n of_o it_o himself_o and_o grow_v from_o thence_o assure_v that_o nothing_o can_v more_o hinder_v the_o progress_n of_o the_o gospel_n then_o to_o disguise_n and_o alter_v its_o simplicity_n for_o a_o strange_a dress_n must_v needs_o render_v it_o suspect_v will_v resolve_v to_o give_v it_o a_o free_a and_o undisturbed_a passage_n and_o never_o draw_v his_o sword_n but_o when_o malice_n and_o ignorance_n do_v join_v together_o not_o only_o to_o oppose_v but_o to_o persecute_v it_o how_o will_v truth_n then_o be_v unfettered_a and_o set_v free_a from_o the_o clog_n of_o pretend_a decency_n but_o indeed_o antichristian_a tyranny_n run_v through_o this_o nation_n and_o chase_v error_n before_o it_o as_o the_o light_n do_v darkness_n this_o great_a and_o glorious_a work_n i_o dare_v almost_o prophecy_n that_o his_o majesty_n be_v reserve_v for_o who_o pious_a and_o unequalled_a declaration_n have_v already_o indulge_v as_o much_o liberty_n as_o any_o soberminded_n christian_n can_v pretend_v to_o and_o which_o will_v then_o undoubted_o be_v make_v a_o law_n when_o by_o our_o constant_a and_o cheerful_a suffering_n for_o this_o doctrine_n of_o liberty_n we_o have_v expiate_v and_o wash_v away_o those_o scandal_n which_o our_o many_o odious_a and_o unparalleled_a abuse_n have_v cast_v upon_o it_o finis_fw-la