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A53346 Amsterdam: toleration, or no toleration in a discourse between conformists, non-conformists, papists, Anabaptists, Quakers, &c. In their own words, before a gracious king, about the extent of a Christian indulgence to all dissenters. By J.V.C.O. A friend to men of all religions. J. V. C. O. 1663 (1663) Wing O2A; ESTC R207624 19,722 59

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errours you may if you will discountenance our truths Papists It 's true some practices against the State deserved this severity formerly but our peaceable behaviour may deserve an indulgence now Protestants Your behaviour may deserve an indulgence but not your principles you are so tied to the Supremacy at Rome that you cannot be true if you will be true to your own Profession to our Government Papists The Hugonots have an indulgence in France Protestants They have no more then they fought for though they have more then as appears by your several attempts to undermine their liberties you are willing they should have Papists It were no harm to indulge us if your Religion were true your truth would triumph over our falshood Protestants No people ever suffered an Enemy to settle in their Country that they might triumph over them An ill-affected person They have already what amounts to a toleration Protestants No the King indeed doth not force them to come over to our Religion because he thinks Religion must be perswaded and not forced yet he doth not allow the practice of their Religion he doth not compel them to come to us and he doth not suffer us to be seduced to come over to them The Indifferent Alas the Popish Religion is so ridiculous that to tolerate it publickly were to expose it Protestants Alas what is ridiculous to the wise is very pleasing to the vulgar who are the most part of mankinde and where they have one Proselyte to their Devotion they have ten to their pomp glory Papists The more danger of our Priests the more care should be taken by your Ministers Protestants But we must not let in the Wolves that the Shepherd may be careful Papists May it please your Majesty that we may live peaceably as your other Subjects and not be compelled to your profession though we enjoy not the liberty of our own King In the multitude of Counsellours there is safety We shall advise with our Nobility Clergy and Commons what may be done in your favour for to deal truely with you it is not my intention to exclude you from all share in the benefit of such an Act as the wisdome of our Parliament shall think fit to offer unto us for the ease of tender consciences VVe intend to abate the rigour of some Laws as not being able to endure that any of our Subjects should be put to death for their opinions in matter of Religion onely and indeed as we cannot in conscience own or indulge your way so we shall not punish your dissent from us any otherwise then with some marks of our displeasure for not closing with the established Religion Papists So pray God bless your Majesty Ill-affected persons If Popery be naught why are Papists suffered if not why are they punished Honest Protestants Though his Majesty suffers Papists as his liege people yet he suffers not Popery and yet he suffers not Papists without some marks of his displeasure Whisperer Why doth the King punish men for what is their conscience The Loyal He punisheth them not for their consciences which he knows not but for their outward actions which he knows he measureth their practice by the Law by which he is to judge and govern he referreth their consciences to God Non-conformists We humbly beseech your most excellent Majesty to allow us to enjoy our consciences and judgements in serving our God State We could grant your liberty as to your own practice but we must deny you the liberty of seducing others I will not punish you for being misled into errour but I must restrain you from spreading your errours I shall wink at your weakness but I shall punish wilfulness Their followers May our eyes but see our Teachers and we enjoy their faithful Labours Ch. Though his Majesty hath compassion on this seduced Age he intends not that the next Age should be seduced too Do you think in your Conscience that his Majesty may suffer that to be taught which he thinks is an errour E. Man How shall the poor men live L. P. No Church or State must allow maintenance to such persons as oppose the Order and Government of that Church or State P. M. Alas that such eminent men should be laid aside for indifferent things E. B. They are not laid aside for indifferent things but for that great fault of disobeying Authority which enjoyns those indifferent things The things commanded are indifferent Obedience to the Command about things indifferent is necessary what cloaths I wear what gestures I use is indifferent that I wear such cloaths and use such gestures as are commanded is necessary Non-conformists May it please your Majesty that we have liberty to joyn with our people in pure Worship and Ordinances giving good security that we neither speak nor do any thing publickly against the established order of the Kingdom S. O. As for those of you who living peaceably cannot conform through scruple and tenderness of misguided Conscience care may be taken that they modestly and without scandal perform their own devotion in their own way Anabaptists We are under a scandal of disobedience to Governours and turbulency but as we resolve in the fear of God to submit to your Government as far as lawfully we may so we desire your favour and indulgence Conformists and Non-conformists Your Principles have been so dangerous your practice so infamous here and in Germany your judgement and practice being so void of meekness modesty charity humanity and innocency that your errour is not thought venial nor your difference tolerable as arising by degrees to tumults seditions and contempt of all Christian Magistrates and Ministers King Nay but I hope there are some of my subjects of that Way who have sincerity to God-ward and charity to those Christians who in this differ from them for whom as long as they behave themselves soberly I have an equal kindness with the rest of my subjects without any respect of persons Quakers O King live for ever We do in love advise thee to remove the yoke from the servants of the Lord who desire nothing but to walk humbly with him and to tremble at his Word P. O. If you can agree upon a way to serve God and offer it to the State you may have protection from the King as far as your way is judged agreeable to truth as yet the world hath not seen what you desire and so know not what to grant you Seekers We desire to try all things and to hold fast that which is good and that nothing be imposed upon us Orthodox Nevertheless whereunto we have already attained let us walk by the same Rule let us minde the same things if in any thing ye be otherwise minded God shall reveal even this unto you Fifth Monarchy-men Why do you wait here on men while you should pray unto the Lord that he would hasten his Kingdome that the Saints may inherit the earth Orthodox We wait upon men