will_v have_v some_o force_n otherways_o it_o have_v none_o at_o all_o m._n s._n 3._o reason_n if_o they_o do_v not_o think_v their_o presbyterial_a church_n more_o holy_a than_o the_o congregationall_a they_o be_v far_o more_o guilty_a of_o schism_n than_o their_o brethren_n i._n e._n then_o independent_o for_o than_o they_o be_v at_o liberty_n in_o point_n of_o conscience_n to_o come_v over_o and_o join_v with_o they_o whereas_o the_o other_o be_v in_o band_n and_o fetter_n of_o conscience_n and_o can_v pass_v unto_o they_o their_o brethren_n will_v come_v to_o they_o but_o can_v they_o can_v come_v over_o unto_o these_o but_o will_v not_o it_o be_v the_o will_n and_o not_o the_o act_n that_o make_v schism_n and_o separation_n a._n s._n 1._o but_o if_o they_o think_v not_o their_o presbyterial_a church_n more_o holy_a all_o your_o argument_n be_v ridiculous_a 2._o and_o i_o must_v confess_v that_o m._n s._n with_o his_o faction_n be_v very_o slight_a who_o can_v make_v very_o few_o 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the_o member_n whereof_o have_v no_o more_o communion_n with_o church_n among_o we_o or_o among_o themselves_o than_o the_o monk_n of_o one_o convent_n with_o those_o of_o another_o convent_n m._n s._n 5._o you_o couple_v yourself_o with_o these_o popish_a convent_v imply_v that_o your_o presbyterian_o have_v their_o sovereign_a judicatory_a as_o they_o a._n s._n we_o have_v no_o supreme_a judicatory_a but_o that_o of_o the_o live_a god_n if_o we_o have_v superior_a and_o inferior_a judicatories_n and_o the_o papist_n also_o neither_o we_o nor_o they_o precise_o be_v to_o be_v blame_v in_o that_o but_o so_o far_o forth_o as_o they_o have_v the_o pope_n one_o man_n for_o supreme_a judge_n and_o head_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v proper_a to_o christ_n in_o that_o they_o prove_v that_o he_o be_v the_o antichrist_n and_o as_o it_o be_v great_a pride_n in_o they_o to_o make_v he_o with_o his_o consistory_n supreme_a judge_n over_o the_o universal_a church_n so_o be_v it_o a_o piece_n of_o extraordinary_a pride_n and_o self-wit_n in_o your_o church_n that_o you_o constitute_v sometime_o seven_o or_o eight_o simple_a fellow_n how_o heretical_a soever_o be_v their_o doctrine_n and_o how_o abominable_a soever_o their_o life_n supreme_a judge_n god_n immediate_a lieutenant_n and_o independent_a of_o all_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o world_n how_o orthodox_n soever_o be_v their_o opinion_n and_o how_o pious_a and_o holy_a soever_o be_v their_o practice_n but_o against_o such_o a_o subordination_n of_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n as_o we_o have_v according_a to_o god_n word_n no_o man_n can_v take_v just_a exception_n m._n s._n say_v that_o he_o have_v answer_v my_o twelve_o reason_n and_o i_o have_v show_v how_o absurd_o he_o have_v answer_v a._n s._n 13._o argument_n m._n s._n with_o his_o logico_fw-la divinity_n by_o a_o doctoral_a privilege_n under_o pretext_n to_o reform_v my_o argument_n deform_v and_o disfigure_v it_o altogether_o by_o his_o addition_n and_o confusion_n in_o make_v it_o hypotheticall_a whereas_o it_o be_v mere_o categoricall_a if_o he_o have_v desire_v to_o put_v it_o in_o form_n he_o need_v not_o but_o to_o have_v add_v or_o express_v the_o proposition_n which_o be_v only_o suppress_v in_o this_o manner_n they_o who_o have_v but_o one_o god_n one_o christ_n one_o lord_n and_o one_o spirit_n who_o be_v one_o body_n who_o have_v one_o faith_n and_o one_o baptism_n whereby_o they_o enter_v into_o the_o church_n shall_v have_v one_o communion_n whereby_o to_o be_v spiritual_o feed_v and_o one_o discipline_n to_o be_v rule_v by_o but_o we_o all_o i._n e._n presbyterian_o as_o you_o call_v we_o and_o independent_o we_o have_v but_o one_o god_n one_o christ_n one_o lord_n and_o one_o spirit_n etc._n etc._n ergo_fw-la we_o all_o i._n e._n presbyterian_o and_o independent_o shall_v have_v but_o one_o spiritual_a communion_n whereby_o to_o be_v spiritual_o feed_v and_o one_o discipline_n to_o be_v rule_v 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procure_v her_o peace_n and_o to_o put_v all_o the_o church_n of_o god_n in_o confusion_n rather_o than_o in_o order_n 21._o be_v it_o credible_a that_o god_n shall_v have_v give_v his_o son_n to_o death_n to_o purchase_v we_o a_o order_n whereby_o all_o church_n may_v live_v in_o peace_n and_o unity_n and_o yet_o make_v they_o to_o quit_v all_o sacramental_a communion_n one_o with_o another_o have_v no_o common_a confession_n of_o faith_n nor_o any_o common_a platform_n of_o ecclesiastical_a government_n among_o they_o whether_o in_o the_o militant_a visible_a church_n there_o shall_v be_v a_o jndependency_n of_o church_n chap._n i._n the_o question_n state_v as_o m._n s._n of_o the_o first_o question_n make_v two_o so_o do_v he_o here_o of_o the_o second_o other_o two_o viz._n his_o three_o question_n for_o presbyterial_a government_n whereof_o he_o treat_v in_o the_o former_a chap._n and_o his_o 4._o question_v of_o independency_n whereof_o he_o treat_v in_o this_o his_o 4._o chap._n but_o they_o be_v not_o two_o question_n but_o two_o divers_a opinion_n about_o one_o and_o the_o same_o question_n so_o have_v commit_v this_o fault_n he_o commit_v again_o another_o much_o worse_o for_o he_o go_v on_o very_a confuse_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o his_o dispute_n and_o without_o ever_o state_v the_o question_n or_o declare_v what_o he_o mean_v by_o independency_n he_o go_v about_o to_o justify_v his_o independent_a government_n in_o a_o cataskevastique_a or_o assertive_a way_n wherefore_o to_o the_o end_n that_o the_o reader_n may_v the_o better_a judge_n both_o of_o his_o cataskevastique_n and_o of_o my_o anaskevastique_a way_n i_o will_v state_n the_o question_n and_o show_v what_o he_o have_v to_o prove_v and_o i_o to_o refute_v 1._o note_v therefore_o i_o pray_v thou_o courteous_a reader_n that_o independency_n be_v a_o sort_n of_o ecclesiastical_a government_n whereby_o every_o particular_a church_n be_v rule_v by_o its_o minister_n its_o doctor_n some_o 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judge_v she_o but_o that_o her_o power_n be_v as_o great_a as_o that_o of_o all_o the_o church_n in_o the_o world_n and_o that_o all_o that_o they_o can_v do_v in_o such_o a_o case_n be_v no_o more_o but_o only_o to_o counsel_n she_o as_o she_o may_v do_v they_o and_o in_o case_n she_o will_v not_o follow_v their_o counsel_n that_o they_o ought_v to_o do_v nothing_o else_o but_o only_o declare_v that_o they_o will_v have_v no_o more_o communion_n with_o she_o as_o she_o may_v likewise_o do_v to_o they_o in_o the_o like_a case_n viz._n if_o they_o will_v not_o follow_v her_o advice_n when_o she_o be_v offend_v with_o their_o doctrine_n government_n life_n or_o proceed_n the_o question_n then_o betwixt_o we_o and_o they_o be_v whether_o god_n have_v establish_v any_o such_o independent_a government_n in_o his_o church_n or_o not_o we_o deny_v it_o m._n s._n affirm_v it_o and_o argue_v as_o follow_v m._n s._n page_n 75._o of_o his_o book_n who_o then_o can_v lay_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o charge_n of_o this_o government_n that_o can_v i_o quoth_v a._n s._n in_o effect_n page_n 38_o 39_o etc._n etc._n i_o have_v 10._o reason_n or_o objection_n against_o it_o a._n s._n i_o confess_v that_o m._n s._n brag_v of_o this_o his_o independent_a government_n as_o his_o word_n express_v but_o it_o be_v a_o manifest_a untruth_n that_o ever_o i_o brag_v of_o 16._o reason_n as_o m._n s._n most_o foolish_o represent_v i_o here_o it_o be_v a._n s._n his_o custom_n to_o bring_v reason_n and_o not_o to_o boast_v of_o they_o as_o it_o be_v m._n s._n his_o manner_n to_o boast_v and_o brag_v with_o high_a word_n without_o any_o reason_n at_o all_o and_o for_o answer_v to_o this_o i_o say_v there_o be_v no_o one_o such_o word_n or_o expression_n in_o all_o my_o book_n it_o be_v but_o m._n s._n his_o word_n and_o fiction_n m._n s._n i_o shall_v not_o spend_v time_n in_o transcribe_v these_o your_o reason_n but_o shall_v desire_v the_o reader_n though_o it_o may_v be_v some_o discourtesy_n unto_o you_o to_o take_v your_o book_n into_o his_o hand_n a._n s._n i_o be_o bind_v to_o your_o courtesy_n good_a sir_n that_o will_v not_o let_v my_o weak_a reason_n appear_v in_o front_n against_o your_o strong_a answer_n but_o since_o it_o be_v not_o m._n s._n his_o pleasure_n that_o they_o appear_v in_o his_o most_o worthy_a book_n i_o hope_v that_o the_o courteous_a reader_n shall_v not_o be_v offend_v if_o i_o make_v they_o together_o with_o his_o answer_n and_o a._n s._n his_o duplye_n appear_v here_o in_o i_o my_o argument_n then_o be_v such_o as_o follow_v chap._n ii_o reason_n against_o the_o independency_n of_o particular_a congregation_n 1._o the_o independent_a church_n have_v no_o sufficient_a remedy_n for_o miscarriage_n though_o never_o so_o gross_a no_o relief_n for_o wrongful_a sentence_n or_o person_n injure_v by_o they_o no_o powerful_a or_o effectual_a mean_n to_o reduce_v a_o church_n or_o church_n that_o fall_v into_o heresy_n or_o schism_n etc._n etc._n all_o that_o they_o can_v do_v be_v only_o to_o pronounce_v a_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o delinquent_n church_n as_o on_o the_o other_o side_n delinquent_n church_n may_v do_v against_o they_o 2._o this_o remedy_n be_v new_a neither_o be_v it_o know_v to_o the_o independent_a congregation_n before_o that_o emergent_a case_n in_o holland_n relate_v in_o the_o apologetical_a narration_n for_o if_o that_o church_n offend_v have_v know_v so_o much_o it_o be_v not_o credible_a that_o she_o will_v against_o all_o charity_n and_o the_o common_a order_n of_o all_o church_n have_v commit_v so_o great_a a_o scandal_n 3._o this_o remedy_n be_v not_o sufficient_a nor_o satisfactory_a because_o all_o church_n according_a to_o your_o tenet_n be_v equal_a in_o authority_n independent_a one_o of_o another_o and_o par_n in_o parem_fw-la non_fw-la habet_fw-la imperium_fw-la none_o have_v power_n or_o authority_n over_o his_o equal_a how_o then_o can_v any_o church_n bind_v another_o to_o any_o such_o account_n but_o out_o of_o its_o free_a will_n as_o a_o party_n may_v do_v to_o its_o party_n 4._o because_o the_o church_n that_o be_v or_o that_o pretend_v to_o be_v offend_v by_o a_o delinquent_n church_n can_v judge_v she_o for_o than_o they_o become_v both_o judge_n and_o party_n in_o one_o cause_n which_o can_v be_v grant_v to_o those_o who_o have_v no_o authoritative_a power_n one_o over_o another_o as_o when_o a_o private_a man_n offend_v the_o state_n and_o we_o our_o god_n 5._o what_o if_o many_o church_n yea_o all_o the_o church_n shall_v offend_v one_o shall_v that_o one_o church_n gather_v all_o the_o rest_n together_o judge_v they_o all_o and_o in_o case_n of_o not_o submit_v themselves_o to_o her_o judgement_n separate_v herself_o from_o they_o all_o if_o so_o we_o shall_v have_v separation_n and_o schism_n enough_o which_o shall_v be_v continue_v to_o all_o posterity_n to_o come_v 6._o what_o if_o church_n be_v so_o remote_a one_o from_o another_o that_o they_o can_v not_o so_o easy_o meet_v together_o upon_o every_o occasion_n then_o there_o shall_v be_v no_o remedy_n at_o least_o not_o easy_a remedy_n 7._o what_o if_o the_o offence_n be_v small_a shall_v so_o many_o church_n for_o every_o trifle_n gather_v together_o and_o put_v themselves_o to_o so_o great_a cost_n and_o trouble_v 8._o what_o if_o the_o church_n shall_v differ_v in_o their_o judgement_n one_o from_o another_o in_o such_o a_o case_n shall_v they_o all_o by_o schism_n separate_v themselves_o one_o from_o another_o 9_o this_o sort_n of_o government_n give_v no_o more_o power_n or_o authority_n to_o a_o thousand_o church_n over_o one_o then_o to_o a_o tinker_n yea_o to_o a_o hangman_n over_o a_o thousand_o for_o he_o may_v desire_v they_o all_o out_o of_o charity_n to_o give_v a_o account_n of_o their_o judgement_n in_o case_n he_o be_v offend_v
i_o maintain_v that_o no_o other_o according_a to_o god_n word_n shall_v be_v tolerate_v the_o independent_o maintain_v that_o they_o shall_v be_v tolerate_v i_o reply_v if_o so_o why_o not_o other_o also_o to_o this_o m._n s._n can_v say_v nothing_o but_o will_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o it_o and_o that_o presbyterianism_n according_a to_o this_o reason_n can_v be_v tolerate_v i_o have_v prove_v the_o contrary_a and_o be_o ready_a to_o grant_v that_o if_o it_o be_v a_o sect_n as_o they_o be_v or_o if_o the_o church_n and_o state_n judge_v it_o to_o be_v repugnant_a to_o god_n word_n it_o shall_v not_o be_v tolerate_v but_o so_o have_v they_o not_o do_v yea_o they_o have_v declare_v the_o contrary_a the_o parliament_n in_o their_o covenant_n and_o the_o assembly_n in_o give_v thanks_o to_o the_o scot_n commissioner_n for_o their_o book_n 9_o and_o to_o be_v short_a i_o adjure_v thou_o m._n s._n by_o the_o relic_n of_o thy_o conscience_n and_o pray_v all_o man_n fear_v god_n to_o declare_v whether_o or_o not_o in_o take_v of_o the_o covenant_n and_o in_o swear_v so_o solemn_o according_a to_o their_o power_n to_o put_v down_o popery_n prelacy_n and_o all_o schism_n they_o intend_v to_o tolerate_v they_o all_o as_o m._n s._n maintain_v they_o shall_v do_v m._n s._n ask_v i_o what_o opinion_n donandae_fw-la sint_fw-la ecclesiâ_fw-la a._n s._n if_o the_o question_n be_v what_o opinion_n be_v to_o be_v approve_v in_o the_o church_n in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la my_o answer_n be_v only_o such_o as_o be_v approve_v by_o public_a ecclesiastical_a authority_n according_a to_o god_n ordinary_a providence_n if_o the_o question_n be_v what_o opinion_n be_v to_o be_v tolerate_v then_o either_o you_o mean_v to_o be_v tolerate_v in_o the_o church_n by_o public_a ecclesiastical_a authority_n or_o in_o private_a person_n if_o the_o first_o i_o answer_v none_o but_o such_o as_o god_n word_n tolerate_v and_o the_o church_n judge_v to_o be_v true_a or_o not_o repugnant_a to_o the_o word_n if_o the_o second_o i_o answer_v that_o that_o depend_v upon_o the_o circumstance_n of_o time_n person_n place_n and_o other_o etc._n etc._n 1._o no_o false_a opinion_n be_v to_o be_v tolerate_v by_o any_o positive_a toleration_n consent_n or_o approbation_n 2._o if_o man_n err_v for_o want_v of_o light_n much_o may_v be_v tolerate_v negatiuè_fw-la i._n e._n in_o not_o proceed_v severe_o against_o they_o till_o they_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v in_o case_n they_o give_v no_o offence_n to_o the_o church_n of_o god_n but_o if_o they_o give_v offence_n they_o must_v be_v punish_v condign_o and_o after_o a_o sufficient_a moral_a conviction_n they_o may_v be_v punish_v condign_o both_o by_o the_o church_n and_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n if_o they_o continue_v and_o become_v pertinacious_a and_o because_o i_o add_v that_o the_o less_o the_o difference_n be_v the_o great_a be_v the_o schism_n m._n s._n pag._n 89._o answer_v 5._o tell_v we_o that_o the_o man_n speak_v of_o i_o know_v not_o what_o schism_n be_v a._n s._n it_o a_o strange_a thing_n that_o have_v give_v so_o clear_a a_o definition_n of_o schism_n he_o shall_v so_o doubt_v m._n s._n either_o grant_v my_o definition_n to_o be_v true_a and_o so_o grant_v that_o i_o know_v it_o or_o deny_v it_o and_o i_o shall_v god_n willing_a make_v it_o good_a but_o it_o be_v but_o a_o small_a matter_n what_o i_o know_v or_o know_v not_o whether_o i_o be_v ignorant_a or_o not_o for_o that_o be_v no_o way_n material_a or_o to_o the_o purpose_n the_o less_o i_o know_v and_o the_o more_o ignorant_a i_o be_o the_o more_o easy_a be_v it_o for_o such_o a_o epistemon_n as_o m._n s._n be_v to_o refute_v i_o come_v to_o the_o point_n i_o pray_v thou_o good_a m._n s_o the_o reason_n of_o this_o my_o assertion_n be_v this_o viz._n the_o less_o the_o difference_n be_v betwixt_o independency_n and_o the_o true_a discipline_n that_o be_v to_o be_v establish_v whether_o it_o be_v presbyterial_a government_n or_o any_o other_o the_o great_a be_v the_o breach_n of_o charity_n and_o ecclesiastical_a communion_n in_o make_v so_o great_a a_o schism_n and_o separation_n from_o the_o true_a church_n of_o god_n for_o so_o small_a a_o matter_n if_o it_o be_v so_o you_o yourselves_o must_v make_v a_o separation_n among_o yourselves_o for_o every_o trifle_n wherein_o you_o differ_v in_o judgement_n either_o in_o doctrine_n discipline_n or_o holiness_n of_o life_n one_o from_o another_o which_o you_o do_v not_o or_o if_o you_o be_v mind_v to_o do_v so_o you_o must_v make_v all_o man_n in_o your_o church_n of_o your_o mind_n in_o every_o opinion_n you_o have_v or_o else_o i_o pray_v tell_v i_o for_o what_o opinion_n you_o be_v mind_v to_o make_v a_o schism_n and_o what_o not_o a._n s._n his_o three_o reason_n god_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n grant_v no_o toleration_n of_o divers_a religion_n or_o discipline_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v grant_v in_o the_o new_a since_o the_o new_a testament_n require_v no_o less_o union_n among_o christian_n than_o the_o old_a among_o jew_n m._n s._n p._n 89._o answ_n 1._o 1._o deny_v the_o consequence_n and_o the_o proof_n bring_v by_o i_o he_o grant_v so_o my_o conclusion_n must_v hold_v only_o he_o say_v it_o be_v ill_o apply_v but_o it_o be_v apply_v by_o way_n of_o argumentation_n whereof_o he_o will_v have_v do_v well_o to_o have_v show_v the_o defect_n m._n s._n pag._n 90._o and_o 91._o answ_n 4._o yet_o do_v it_o not_o require_v that_o he_o that_o be_v strong_a shall_v cudgel_v he_o that_o be_v weak_a a._n s._n god_n be_v thank_v you_o need_v not_o much_o complain_v of_o any_o cudgel_n that_o you_o have_v yet_o receive_v since_o this_o parliament_n neither_o need_v you_o to_o fear_v it_o in_o time_n to_o come_v if_o you_o force_v not_o a_o new_a religion_n upon_o the_o kingdom_n against_o their_o will_n or_o if_o you_o will_v submit_v unto_o lawful_a authority_n and_o not_o make_v your_o inconsiderable_a number_n the_o judge_n of_o all_o this_o business_n against_o the_o law_n of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o what_o you_o say_v in_o your_o second_o chapter_n we_o have_v show_v how_o absurd_a it_o be_v and_o how_o horrible_a impiety_n will_v follow_v upon_o your_o tenet_n m._n s._n p._n 89._o in_o his_o 1._o and_o 2._o answer_n to_o the_o consequence_n be_v that_o it_o follow_v not_o dare_v you_o say_v in_o matter_n of_o knowledge_n authority_n and_o power_n ero_n similis_fw-la altissimo_fw-la remember_v the_o fall_n of_o the_o son_n of_o the_o morning_n a._n s._n we_o pretend_v not_o to_o be_v like_a unto_o god_n in_o these_o consideration_n in_o go_v against_o the_o command_n as_o lucifer_n but_o in_o holiness_n as_o he_o be_v holy_a which_o can_v be_v without_o obedience_n as_o in_o the_o good_a angel_n now_o you_o confess_v yourselves_o that_o god_n have_v only_o command_v one_o discipline_n and_o government_n in_o the_o church_n under_o the_o new_a testament_n how_o be_v we_o then_o lucifer_n in_o desire_v this_o only_a and_o no_o other_o to_o be_v admit_v of_o in_o the_o church_n how_o do_v you_o then_o plead_v for_o the_o introduction_n of_o any_o other_o than_o the_o true_a discipline_n if_o baal_n be_v god_n serve_v he_o but_o if_o jehovah_n be_v god_n serve_v he_o so_o if_o independency_n be_v the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n let_v it_o be_v admit_v and_o no_o other_o and_o so_o of_o presbyterial_a and_o all_o other_o government_n we_o impose_v none_o but_o desire_v that_o the_o true_a discipline_n may_v be_v seek_v for_o and_o afterward_o impose_v by_o the_o parliament_n and_o the_o church_n by_o each_o of_o they_o according_a to_o their_o vocation_n m._n s._n his_o second_o answer_n p._n 89._o be_v that_o he_o deny_v the_o antecedent_n of_o my_o argument_n or_o rather_o distinguish_v it_o viz._n that_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n it_o be_v not_o grant_v in_o terminis_fw-la but_o in_o sensu_fw-la or_o by_o consequence_n for_o this_o must_v be_v the_o other_o part_n of_o his_o distinction_n because_o he_o prohibit_v all_o manner_n of_o violence_n and_o oppression_n and_o charge_v the_o rich_a not_o to_o enslave_v the_o poor_a a._n s._n reply_n 1._o this_o be_v no_o law_n of_o ecclesiastical_a government_n or_o of_o toleration_n of_o heresy_n schism_n or_o divers_a discipline_n in_o the_o church_n but_o a_o moral_a law_n and_o a_o part_n of_o the_o six_o commandment_n in_o not_o offer_v violence_n to_o the_o weak_a and_o of_o the_o eight_o thou_o shall_v not_o steal_v forbid_v all_o sort_n of_o extortion_n against_o the_o poor_a now_o you_o be_v not_o poor_a neither_o be_v there_o any_o man_n either_o of_o the_o parliament_n or_o synod_n about_o to_o take_v your_o purse_n m._n s._n yet_o the_o equity_n and_o spirit_n of_o such_o law_n extend_v to_o spirituall_n a._n
as_o a_o nurse_n of_o the_o church_n in_o compel_v they_o by_o the_o civil_a power_n to_o obey_v the_o church_n but_o in_o both_o these_o punishment_n viz._n spiritual_a and_o temporal_a it_o be_v not_o for_o the_o sinner_n to_o judge_v whether_o or_o no_o he_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v since_o he_o be_v a_o party_n can_v be_v judge_n in_o his_o own_o cause_n but_o it_o be_v the_o part_n of_o the_o ecclesiastical_a senate_n to_o judge_v whether_o he_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v in_o foro_fw-la ecclesiastico_fw-la and_o of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n to_o judge_v whether_o he_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v in_o foro_fw-la civili_fw-la in_o that_o whereof_o he_o be_v to_o judge_v to_o your_o 2._o answer_v i_o reply_v that_o by_o brownist_n independent_o anabaptist_n etc._n etc._n i_o mean_v not_o the_o name_n but_o the_o thing_n signify_v by_o such_o name_n a.s._n neither_o have_v the_o church_n of_o goda_n custom_n to_o be_v contentious_a 1_o cor._n 11.16_o this_o i_o bring_v to_o prove_v that_o schism_n be_v not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v for_o they_o breed_v contention_n in_o church_n m.s._n 3._o but_o he_o do_v not_o say_v that_o these_o church_n of_o god_n have_v any_o custom_n to_o erect_v a_o presbyterian_a throne_n or_o a_o combine_a eldership_n among_o they_o to_o keep_v they_o from_o contention_n a._n s._n i_o answer_v you_o m._n s._n that_o i_o must_v endure_v your_o impertinency_n 1._o for_o if_o you_o have_v frequent_v our_o presbytery_n you_o shall_v have_v see_v that_o they_o have_v no_o throne_n 2._o you_o may_v have_v see_v that_o by_o this_o argument_n i_o intend_v not_o to_o prove_v a_o combine_a presbytery_n as_o you_o call_v it_o but_o the_o intolerablenesse_n of_o a_o toleration_n of_o sect_n i_o prove_v sufficient_o elsewhere_o what_o you_o can_v desire_v about_o the_o subordination_n of_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n a._n s._n neither_o permit_v the_o apostle_n schism_n m._n s._n say_v that_o he_o have_v already_o answer_v this_o a._n s._n say_v that_o he_o have_v reply_v to_o m._n s._n his_o answer_n a.s._n we_o must_v not_o quit_v our_o mutual_a meeting_n as_o other_o do_v and_o as_o must_v be_v do_v in_o a_o public_a toleration_n heb._n 10.25_o m._n s._n we_o understand_v not_o your_o word_n a._n s._n but_o they_o be_v the_o apostle_n word_n 2._o and_o my_o argument_n may_v easy_o be_v form_v by_o any_o logician_n against_o toleration_n it_o will_v be_v thus_o what_o make_v we_o to_o quit_v our_o mutual_a meeting_n as_o other_o do_v be_v not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v but_o schism_n and_o heresy_n make_v we_o to_o quit_v our_o mutual_a meeting_n ergo_fw-la they_o be_v not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v m.s._n we_o do_v not_o know_v what_o quit_v of_o meeting_n there_o be_v like_a to_o be_v more_o under_o a_o public_a toleration_n then_o be_v for_o the_o present_a a.s._n so_o he_o seem_v to_o deny_v the_o minor_a but_o i_o prove_v it_o for_o in_o tolerate_v of_o schism_n we_o see_v that_o man_n be_v deceive_v by_o the_o schismatic_n do_v quit_v the_o meeting_n of_o the_o church_n to_o which_o before_o they_o be_v join_v and_o we_o see_v how_o the_o independent_o frequent_v not_o willing_o our_o church_n and_o will_v not_o all_o join_v with_o we_o in_o our_o meeting_n at_o the_o lord_n table_n neither_o believe_v i_o that_o any_o of_o the_o five_o apologetic_a minister_n have_v ever_o communicate_v in_o our_o assembly_n since_o this_o parliament_n a._n s._n 18._o because_o that_o m.s._n charge_v my_o 18._o reason_n with_o atheism_n i_o will_v put_v it_o in_o form_n that_o which_o per_fw-mi se_fw-mi giveth_z offence_n unto_o papist_n and_o other_o or_o that_o expose_v the_o protestant_a church_n unto_o the_o calumny_n of_o papist_n shall_v not_o be_v grant_v by_o we_o but_o the_o toleration_n of_o many_o sect_n do_v so_o ergo_fw-la it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v grant_v the_o major_n be_v certain_a for_o it_o be_v scandalum_fw-la datum_fw-la which_o all_o divine_n do_v condemn_v the_o minor_a i_o prove_v it_o for_o it_o give_v and_o the_o papist_n thereupon_o take_v too_o just_a a_o cause_n of_o scandal_n or_o offence_n and_o indeed_o it_o can_v but_o be_v a_o just_a subject_n of_o offence_n by_o to_o open_a to_o be_v reproach_v with_o such_o a_o innumerable_a number_n of_o sect_n to_o the_o rent_v of_o christ_n church_n in_o piece_n m._n s._n to_o this_o answer_v not_o but_o propound_v some_o question_n 1._o will_v you_o say_v he_o redeem_v yourself_o out_o of_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o papist_n calumny_n by_o symbolise_v with_o they_o a._n s._n i_o answer_v 1._o that_o it_o be_v no_o symbolise_n with_o papist_n if_o we_o tolerate_v not_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n for_o you_o have_v already_o confess_v that_o in_o your_o particular_a church_n you_o tolerate_v they_o not_o and_o yet_o you_o believe_v that_o your_o church_n symbolize_v no_o more_o with_o they_o then_o we_o 2._o it_o be_v a_o strange_a thing_n if_o my_o argument_n be_v atheological_a if_o it_o prove_v that_o atheist_n and_o such_o as_o deny_v the_o trinity_n and_o the_o incarnation_n of_o the_o son_n of_o god_n be_v not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v if_o such_o a_o argument_n be_v atheological_a in_o your_o judgement_n i_o be_o assure_v that_o all_o theologue_n will_v conceive_v better_o of_o it_o then_o of_o this_o your_o theological_a answer_n neither_o have_v i_o forget_v my_o 11._o reason_n for_o you_o symbolize_v with_o they_o in_o their_o popery_n and_o i_o in_o true_a theology_n viz._n in_o maintain_v the_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n with_o saint_n paul_n as_o you_o symbolize_v with_o sectary_n in_o maintain_v the_o rent_v of_o the_o church_n by_o schism_n if_o you_o have_v show_v any_o contradiction_n in_o my_o word_n i_o have_v either_o answer_v it_o or_o if_o i_o can_v not_o i_o shall_v have_v render_v myself_o to_o the_o truth_n but_o m._n s._n will_v not_o prove_v it_o but_o terrify_v i_o as_o a_o child_n with_o his_o great_a word_n it_o seem_v say_v he_o contradiction_n inconsistencye_n impertinencye_n vn-intelligibilities_a sense_n nonsense_n any_o thing_n nothing_o etc._n etc._n a._n s._n all_o this_o be_v no_o sense_n nothing_o but_o word_n and_o wind_n of_o goodwin_n as_o for_o the_o 19_o reason_n he_o remit_v we_o to_o the_o former_a question_n to_o seek_v a_o answer_n a._n s._n 20._o if_o it_o i._n e._n toleration_n be_v grant_v it_o can_v but_o be_v think_v that_o it_o have_v be_v grant_v or_o rather_o extort_a by_o force_n of_o reason_n and_o that_o all_o the_o assembly_n be_v not_o able_a to_o answer_v our_o brethren_n whereas_o indeed_o their_o opinion_n and_o demand_n be_v against_o all_o reason_n as_o sundry_a of_o themselves_o can_v not_o deny_v and_o have_v nothing_o to_o say_v save_v only_o that_o it_o be_v god_n ordinance_n which_o yet_o they_o can_v never_o show_v out_o of_o god_n word_n on_o the_o contrary_a if_o it_o be_v refuse_v it_o will_v help_v to_o confirm_v the_o church_n and_o the_o people_n in_o the_o truth_n m._n s._n in_o substance_n 1._o deni_v that_o a_o toleration_n will_v seem_v to_o be_v extort_a if_o it_o be_v grant_v a._n s._n but_o if_o a_o thing_n so_o absurd_a and_o against_o all_o piety_n be_v grant_v by_o so_o venerable_a a_o assembly_n wherein_o thing_n be_v carry_v by_o reason_n it_o can_v seem_v but_o extort_a by_o reason_n m._n s._n say_v that_o i_o tell_v the_o assembly_n that_o howsoever_o their_o conscience_n may_v savour_v the_o independent_o in_o point_n of_o toleration_n yet_o their_o credit_n and_o reputation_n will_v suffer_v by_o it_o a._n s._n it_o be_v false_a there_o be_v no_o such_o expression_n in_o my_o book_n it_o be_v not_o my_o expression_n but_o m._n s._n his_o fiction_n and_o imposture_n neither_o shall_v the_o assembly_n in_o my_o poor_a opinion_n so_o easy_o suffer_v themselves_o to_o be_v entreat_v for_o ill_a neither_o be_v there_o any_o mercy_n in_o tolerate_v and_o not_o suppress_v of_o schism_n and_o heresy_n as_o m._n s._n believe_v m._n s._n deni_v that_o their_o opinion_n and_o demand_n be_v against_o all_o reason_n but_o i_o have_v sundry_a time_n prove_v it_o viz._n because_o by_o such_o a_o toleration_n of_o independency_n all_o sort_n of_o heresy_n will_v creep_v into_o the_o church_n and_o it_o be_v most_o absurd_a that_o there_o shall_v be_v no_o ecclesiastical_a power_n to_o repress_v the_o heresy_n and_o abominable_a sin_n of_o seven_o or_o eight_o wicked_a fellow_n whereof_o a_o particular_a independent_a church_n may_v be_v compoe_v in_o case_n they_o fall_v into_o heresy_n or_o such_o abominable_a sin_n whereas_o m._n s._n say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o like_a that_o so_o very_o learned_a man_n etc._n etc._n such_o as_o be_v the_o 5._o apologist_n shall_v rise_v up_o to_o defend_v a_o opinion_n so_o contrary_a to_o all_o reason_n a._n
good_a of_o the_o church_n which_o he_o will_v have_v to_o belong_v to_o the_o parliament_n and_o all_o other_o 2._o a_o authoritative_a power_n to_o conclude_v say_v and_o set_v down_o what_o shall_v must_v or_o aught_o to_o be_v do_v against_o all_o contradiction_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o this_o he_o grant_v to_o god_n alone_o and_o add_v if_o the_o presbyterian_o demand_v such_o a_o directive_n power_n let_v they_o ask_v the_o crown_n throne_n and_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n also_o to_o this_o a._n s._n say_v that_o all_o man_n may_v grant_v it_o to_o be_v true_a if_o they_o claim_v any_o sovereign_a royal_a authoritative_a power_n but_o if_o they_o claim_v only_o a_o ministerial_a power_n it_o be_v as_o great_a a_o sacrilege_n to_o deny_v they_o it_o as_o blasphemy_n in_o they_o to_o arrogate_v the_o other_o since_o they_o be_v god_n minister_n and_o ambassador_n for_o christ_n 3._o a_o prudentiall_a faculty_n or_o ability_n to_o direct_v order_n or_o prescribe_v whether_o to_o a_o man_n self_n or_o to_o other_o what_o in_o a_o way_n of_o reason_n humane_a conjecture_n or_o probability_n be_v best_a and_o fit_a to_o be_v do_v follow_v or_o embrace_v in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o this_o he_o grant_v to_o the_o parliament_n to_o many_o private_a member_n of_o particular_a church_n and_o to_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n also_o howsoever_o with_o a_o restriction_n but_o in_o all_o these_o his_o conjecture_n he_o have_v no_o way_n guess_v at_o my_o mind_n for_o by_o a_o directive_n power_n however_o i_o mean_v a_o prudentiall_a prudence_n yet_o mean_v i_o not_o a_o private_a prudentiall_a prudence_n which_o may_v be_v find_v in_o midwife_n maidservant_n and_o watermen_n for_o in_o grant_v such_o a_o power_n to_o the_o parliament_n and_o ecclesiastical_a senate_n he_o grant_v they_o no_o more_o then_o to_o the_o mean_a of_o the_o people_n but_o i_o mean_v a_o authoritative_a public_a and_o ecclesiastical_a prudentiall_a power_n not_o sovereign_a imperial_a royal_a or_o despoticall_a or_o magisterial_a but_o ministerial_a such_o as_o may_v belong_v to_o minister_n and_o ambassador_n of_o christ_n and_o as_o i_o have_v say_v it_o be_v not_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d whereof_o aristotle_n speak_v in_o the_o category_n of_o quality_n but_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d no_o natural_a power_n no_o natural_a or_o supernatural_a habitude_n but_o potestas_fw-la or_o moral_a power_n depend_v upon_o will_n and_o not_o upon_o nature_n or_o that_o be_v the_o work_n of_o will_n and_o not_o of_o nature_n chap._n vii_o wherein_o be_v dissolve_v his_o 6_o 7_o 8_o 9_o 10_o 11_o 12._o reason_n borrow_a from_o the_o parliament_n ordinance_n ob._n 6._o after_o all_o his_o guess_v so_o little_a to_o purpose_n p._n 35._o §_o 6._o he_o endeavour_v to_o prove_v by_o the_o ordinance_n of_o the_o parliament_n for_o the_o call_n of_o the_o assembly_n that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n do_v claim_v yea_o and_o exercise_v act_n and_o make_v use_n of_o such_o a_o authority_n from_o day_n to_o day_n as_o occasion_n require_v because_o the_o parliament_n publish_v their_o ordinance_n for_o call_v the_o assembly_n a._n s._n answ_o i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n for_o that_o contrivance_n and_o publish_n of_o their_o ordinance_n be_v not_o a_o directive_n power_n intrinsical_v to_o the_o church_n whereof_o we_o speak_v for_o neither_o direct_v it_o they_o intrinsical_o in_o doctrine_n discipline_n or_o manner_n but_o extrinsecal_o 1._o because_o the_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n may_v be_v and_o have_v sundry_a time_n be_v convocate_v without_o it_o as_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n 2._o because_o it_o be_v before_o ever_o the_o synod_n begin_v and_o without_o any_o ecclesiastical_a act_n now_o what_o be_v before_o a_o synod_n begin_v and_o without_o any_o ecclesiastical_a act_n can_v be_v intrinsical_n to_o the_o synod_n or_o to_o the_o church_n 3._o because_o the_o directive_n power_n whereof_o i_o speak_v be_v in_o judge_v of_o controversy_n of_o religion_n etc._n etc._n but_o the_o publish_n of_o a_o ordinance_n for_o call_v the_o assembly_n be_v no_o such_o thing_n ergo_fw-la 4._o because_o that_o call_v of_o the_o assembly_n by_o civil_a authority_n alone_o be_v extraordinary_a howbeit_o very_o just_a and_o conform_v unto_o god_n word_n neither_o can_v this_o be_v a_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n unless_o it_o be_v virtual_o call_v by_o the_o church_n officer_n in_o virtue_n of_o their_o subsequent_a consent_n thereunto_o and_o all_o these_o answer_n must_v be_v take_v conjunct_o and_o not_o several_o 5._o because_o this_o assembly_n be_v not_o ecclesiastical_a in_o virtue_n of_o the_o ordinance_n of_o the_o parliament_n but_o of_o the_o virtual_a consent_n of_o the_o church_n the_o virtual_a indiction_n of_o it_o by_o church_n authority_n contribute_v to_o make_v it_o intrinsical_o ecclesiastical_a but_o the_o ordinance_n of_o the_o parliament_n be_v extrinsecall_v unto_o it_o in_o so_o far_o forth_o as_o ecclesiastical_a howsoever_o it_o be_v very_o just_a and_o necessary_a but_o it_o be_v intrinsical_v to_o it_o accidental_o and_o in_o so_o far_o as_o be_v to_o be_v receive_v in_o the_o state_n which_o absolute_o be_v extrinsecall_v to_o the_o church_n ob._n m._n s._n in_o limit_v those_o that_o be_v to_o be_v of_o the_o assembly_n to_o the_o subject_n or_o argument_n on_o which_o it_o be_v permit_v they_o to_o debate_v they_o do_v no_o less_o i._n e._n they_o exercise_v a_o directive_n power_n a._n s._n answ_n 1._o but_o this_o be_v no_o intrinsical_a directive_n power_n whereof_o i_o speak_v viz._n in_o teach_v preach_a judgeing_a of_o controversy_n of_o religion_n etc._n etc._n 2._o this_o be_v no_o ecclesiastical_a but_o a_o civil_a power_n 3._o in_o so_o do_v the_o parliament_n judge_v not_o what_o be_v to_o be_v believe_v or_o practise_v in_o the_o church_n but_o ordain_v they_o to_o judge_v which_o be_v the_o true_a intrinsical_n directive_n power_n 4._o and_o this_o be_v extraordinary_a in_o respect_n of_o god_n particular_a howbeit_o not_o in_o respect_n of_o his_o general_a providence_n in_o the_o government_n of_o his_o church_n m._n s._n ob._n 8._o in_o appoint_v and_o order_v they_o not_o to_o determine_v or_o conclude_v of_o thing_n as_o they_o please_v by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n but_o to_o deliver_v their_o opinion_n and_o advice_n as_o shall_v be_v most_o agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n another_o proviso_n in_o the_o ordinance_n they_o do_v the_o same_o a.s._n 1_o m.s._n will_v here_o seem_v to_o give_v some_o great_a power_n unto_o the_o parliament_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n &_o yet_o it_o be_v nothing_o else_o but_o that_o which_o he_o grant_v to_o too_o many_o private_a member_n of_o particular_a church_n so_o that_o if_o the_o king_n and_o parliament_n will_v become_v member_n of_o this_o m._n s._n his_o church_n and_o he_o please_v to_o admit_v they_o it_o may_v be_v that_o he_o will_v grant_v they_o as_o much_o power_n as_o to_o other_o private_a member_n thereof_o 2._o note_v that_o he_o say_v not_o that_o it_o belong_v unto_o they_o but_z that_o they_o claim_v it_o exercise_n act_n and_o make_v use_n of_o it_o but_o quo_fw-la jure_fw-la quave_fw-la injuriâ_fw-la he_o tell_v not_o 3._o in_o all_o this_o there_o appear_v no_o intrinsical_n or_o ecclesiastical_a power_n they_o do_v it_o not_o by_o a_o spiritual_a but_o by_o a_o secular_a power_n 4._o and_o if_o the_o church_n have_v not_o a_o spiritual_a and_o ecclesiastical_a power_n to_o determine_v and_o to_o conclude_v what_o need_v the_o parliament_n to_o forbid_v it_o the_o synod_n rather_o than_o ordinary_a tradesman_n who_o have_v no_o such_o power_n to_o determine_v such_o matter_n 5._o neither_o by_o this_o command_n be_v it_o the_o parliament_n mind_n as_o i_o believe_v to_o take_v away_o from_o the_o church_n the_o directive_n and_o intrinsical_v power_n that_o god_n have_v grant_v she_o but_o only_o to_o desire_v she_o to_o put_v off_o her_o determination_n till_o it_o see_v how_o far_o it_o can_v prevail_v by_o fair_a mean_n to_o gain_v pertinacious_a man_n who_o may_v oppoâ—e_v it_o and_o happy_o also_o till_o it_o receive_v full_a satisfaction_n itself_o before_o it_o confirm_v such_o determination_n by_o a_o act_n of_o parliament_n and_o so_o make_v they_o to_o be_v receive_v by_o their_o authority_n in_o the_o state_n for_o the_o parliament_n have_v no_o less_o civil_a and_o secular_a authority_n to_o receive_v or_o not_o receive_v it_o by_o a_o civil_a law_n into_o the_o state_n than_o any_o synod_n have_v spiritual_a authority_n to_o establish_v or_o not_o establish_v it_o by_o a_o ecclesiastical_a law_n in_o the_o church_n wherefore_o in_o this_o the_o parliament_n intend_v not_o to_o cross_v the_o church_n government_n nor_o to_o be_v cross_v in_o their_o civil_a government_n by_o the_o church_n as_o in_o former_a time_n
but_o to_o live_v together_o as_o moses_n and_o aaron_n both_o look_v to_o one_o end_n but_o each_o one_o of_o they_o with_o their_o own_o eye_n the_o one_o with_o a_o political_a the_o other_o with_o a_o spiritual_a or_o ecclesiastical_a eye_n and_o this_o appear_v by_o those_o word_n of_o the_o ordinance_n during_o this_o present_a parliament_n or_o until_o further_a order_n be_v take_v now_o if_o this_o order_n be_v full_a what_o need_v the_o synod_n attend_v for_o a_o further_a order_n neither_o be_v there_o any_o man_n of_o judgement_n that_o can_v blame_v the_o parliament_n in_o all_o this_o yea_o howbeit_o it_o shall_v extraordinary_o do_v more_o in_o this_o extraordinary_o miserable_a estate_n of_o religion_n when_o now_o satan_n have_v so_o manifest_a and_o palpable_a a_o entrance_n into_o the_o church_n of_o god_n under_o so_o many_o ill-portending_a shape_n as_o of_o independent_o brownist_n anabaptist_n socinian_o etc._n etc._n they_o have_v need_n take_v upon_o they_o for_o the_o defence_n of_o the_o church_n more_o than_o in_o ordinary_a case_n they_o do_v 7._o only_o i_o add_v a_o word_n viz._n that_o these_o word_n as_o they_o please_v by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n be_v not_o in_o the_o ordinance_n but_o be_v a_o addition_n of_o m._n s._n in_o contempt_n of_o the_o synod_n as_o if_o the_o member_n thereof_o vote_v not_o according_a to_o scripture_n but_o as_o please_v themselves_o and_o 8._o that_o in_o case_n of_o difference_n in_o opinion_n it_o be_v not_o ordain_v that_o they_o represent_v their_o opinion_n and_o the_o reason_n thereof_o to_o either_o or_o both_o the_o house_n to_o the_o end_n that_o they_o may_v judge_v of_o the_o matter_n but_o that_o they_o may_v find_v out_o some_o further_a direction_n whereby_o the_o assembly_n may_v judge_v it_o 9_o yea_o there_o be_v another_o ordinance_n since_o the_o print_a ordinance_n whereby_o it_o be_v ordain_v that_o all_o thing_n agree_v upon_o and_o prepare_v for_o the_o parliament_n shall_v be_v open_o read_v and_o allow_v in_o the_o assembly_n and_o then_o offer_v as_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o assembly_n if_o the_o major_a part_n consent_n see_v how_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o major_a part_n of_o the_o assembly_n be_v here_o declare_v by_o the_o parliament_n to_o be_v acknowledge_v as_o the_o decision_n of_o the_o assembly_n which_o m._n s._n will_v not_o stand_v unto_o object_n 9_o in_o enjoin_v they_o in_o case_n of_o difference_n of_o opinion_n between_o they_o to_o present_v the_o same_o together_o with_o the_o reason_n thereof_o to_o both_o house_n they_o do_v every_o whit_n as_o much_o a.s._n answ_n 1._o i_o deny_v that_o they_o who_o enjoin_v in_o case_n of_o difference_n etc._n etc._n have_v a_o internal_a power_n in_o the_o church_n much_o less_o a_o internal_a directive_n power_n 2._o this_o injunction_n be_v not_o in_o reference_n to_o the_o intrinsical_a power_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v evermore_o within_o the_o church_n but_o to_o the_o extrinsecall_a power_n about_o the_o church_n i.e._n to_o that_o of_o the_o magistrate_n who_o power_n be_v without_o the_o church_n howsoever_o within_o the_o state_n and_o in_o so_o far_o forth_o as_o the_o parliament_n by_o civil_a law_n intend_v to_o approve_v and_o confirm_v the_o ecclesiastical_a law_n 3._o item_n it_o be_v to_o see_v if_o by_o any_o mean_n and_o way_n of_o meekness_n it_o can_v persuade_v a_o few_o man_n of_o your_o sect_n to_o submit_v themselves_o unto_o the_o order_n and_o government_n that_o god_n have_v establish_v in_o his_o church_n as_o they_o have_v do_v you_o many_o other_o favour_n which_o you_o too_o much_o undervalue_v argue_v from_o this_o favour_n as_o from_o a_o law_n to_o that_o which_o be_v or_o shall_v be_v ordinary_a justice_n and_o yet_o they_o ordain_v that_o what_o be_v carry_v by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n in_o the_o assembly_n shall_v pass_v as_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o whole_a assembly_n object_n 10._o m.s._n in_o their_o nominate_n and_o call_v such_o and_o such_o minister_n and_o not_o other_o to_o be_v of_o the_o assembly_n they_o act_v the_o same_o power_n a.s._n answ_n that_o be_v also_o extrinsecall_v since_o it_o be_v not_o in_o but_o out_o of_o and_o before_o the_o assembly_n 2._o and_o extraordinary_a 3._o and_o yet_o very_o ordinate_a and_o ordinary_a for_o this_o extraordinary_a state_n of_o the_o church_n in_o this_o kingdom_n when_o such_o a_o swarm_n of_o sect_n be_v creep_v in_o some_o come_n from_o new_a england_n other_o from_o the_o netherlands_o and_o other_o from_o other_o place_n for_o if_o every_o one_o of_o they_o shall_v have_v have_v entry_n into_o the_o assembly_n what_o shall_v have_v become_v of_o we_o 4._o neither_o do_v this_o prove_v any_o directive_n power_n in_o the_o church_n in_o teach_v etc._n etc._n as_o i_o say_v that_o shall_v belong_v unto_o the_o magistrate_n m.s._n ob._n 11._o in_o frame_v the_o temper_n and_o constitution_n of_o the_o assembly_n allay_v it_o with_o such_o and_o such_o member_n of_o their_o own_o they_o steer_v the_o same_o course_n a.s._n answ_n 1._o this_o can_v conclude_v any_o directive_n ecclesiastical_a power_n that_o belong_v unto_o the_o parliament_n 2._o these_o member_n of_o their_o own_o who_o do_v sit_v in_o the_o assembly_n if_o they_o have_v any_o vote_n do_v not_o sit_v there_o in_o quality_n of_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n for_o then_o every_o member_n of_o the_o parliament_n may_v have_v sit_v there_o but_o in_o quality_n of_o extraordinary_a ecclesiastical_a person_n according_a to_o this_o extraordinary_a state_n and_o exigence_n of_o the_o church_n 3._o if_o they_o have_v no_o vote_n at_o all_o and_o yet_o sit_v they_o be_v not_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n but_o this_o be_v a_o special_a privilege_n grant_v unto_o the_o member_n of_o the_o house_n which_o in_o other_o place_n likewise_o be_v grant_v unto_o person_n of_o mean_a rank_n yea_o unto_o stranger_n as_o we_o may_v see_v in_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n in_o their_o general_n assembly_n 4._o or_o rather_o they_o sit_v there_o in_o name_n of_o the_o parliament_n to_o procure_v by_o their_o civil_a power_n the_o externall_n order_n that_o shall_v be_v in_o such_o assembly_n but_o this_o be_v no_o ecclesiastical_a or_o internal_a power_n in_o the_o church_n but_o externall_n about_o the_o church_n such_o as_o the_o french_a king_n commissioner_n who_o be_v sometime_o papist_n have_v in_o our_o protestant_a nationall_n synod_n in_o france_n and_o yet_o be_v not_o member_n of_o our_o synod_n there_o neither_o vote_n they_o neither_o pretend_v they_o to_o have_v any_o intrinsical_v power_n there_o for_o than_o they_o shall_v profess_v themselves_o thereby_o to_o be_v protestant_n only_o they_o have_v power_n to_o oppose_v thing_n that_o they_o believe_v to_o be_v prejudicial_a to_o the_o king_n or_o the_o state_n 5._o neither_o believe_v i_o that_o they_o vote_v in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n 6._o and_o if_o they_o vote_v in_o matter_n of_o government_n they_o do_v it_o in_o quality_n of_o rule_v elder_n either_o extraordinary_a or_o ordinary_a in_o virtue_n of_o some_o virtual_a election_n make_v by_o the_o synod_n or_o by_o the_o synod_n toleration_n or_o approbation_n for_o no_o man_n can_v rule_v the_o church_n intrinsical_o but_o he_o that_o be_v intrinsical_o a_o church-ruler_n or_o officer_n as_o i_o have_v prove_v it_o heretofore_o m.s._n object_n 12._o last_o in_o their_o message_n or_o direction_n send_v unto_o they_o from_o time_n to_o time_n how_o to_o proceed_v what_o particular_n to_o wave_n for_o the_o present_a what_o to_o fall_v upon_o and_o debate_n to_o hasten_v the_o issue_n of_o their_o consultation_n with_o the_o like_a what_o do_v they_o else_o but_o claim_v and_o exercise_v such_o a_o directive_n power_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n a.s._n answ_n to_o proceed_v to_o wave_v particular_n to_o debate_v thing_n and_o consult_v of_o they_o in_o the_o assembly_n argue_v a_o intrinsical_a 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lesser_a sanedrim_n unto_o that_o of_o the_o great_a one_o as_o have_v be_v prove_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n gillispy_a hearl_n etc._n etc._n art_n 1._o and_o 2._o 3._o the_o representative_a church_n or_o first_o general_n council_n at_o jerusalem_n have_v power_n and_o authority_n over_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o world_n since_o it_o give_v they_o a_o minister_n viz._n mathias_n ergo_fw-la all_o other_o church_n in_o their_o judgement_n and_o power_n of_o create_v such_o a_o minister_n be_v subject_a unto_o it_o object_n if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o it_o be_v a_o extraordinary_a council_n 1._o because_o it_o be_v indict_v and_o convocate_v by_o christ_n 2._o because_o it_o be_v compound_v of_o extraordinary_a person_n 3._o because_o the_o person_n receive_v extraordinary_a gift_n there_o 4._o because_o it_o be_v in_o the_o birth_n and_o beginning_n of_o the_o church_n reply_n the_o scripture_n say_v not_o that_o it_o be_v extraordinary_a as_o for_o the_o the_o proof_n i_o 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say_v that_o mathias_n be_v a_o extraordinary_a minister_n and_o his_o vocation_n extraordinary_a i_o answer_v that_o all_o that_o be_v true_a and_o yet_o in_o this_o extraordinary_a vocation_n there_o be_v something_o ordinary_a viz._n the_o nomination_n and_o election_n or_o admittance_n of_o he_o to_o be_v a_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n according_a to_o the_o independent_o opinion_n otherways_o their_o argument_n shall_v be_v very_o impertinent_a in_o prove_v from_o hence_o the_o power_n of_o the_o people_n in_o choose_v their_o minister_n that_o which_o there_o be_v extraordinary_a be_v not_o do_v by_o the_o council_n and_o therefore_o can_v not_o make_v the_o council_n extraordinary_n as_o much_o may_v be_v say_v of_o that_o council_n that_o create_v seven_o deacon_n for_o many_o church_n 5._o but_o principal_o we_o will_v urge_v that_o business_n of_o antioch_n in_o that_o difference_n betwixt_o st._n paul_n and_o barnabas_n on_o the_o one_o part_n and_o some_o pharisee_n convert_v to_o the_o christian_a faith_n on_o the_o other_o hereupon_o it_o be_v resolve_v that_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n shall_v go_v up_o to_o jernsalem_n unto_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n about_o that_o question_n v._o 2._o they_o be_v send_v by_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n v._o 3._o they_o be_v receive_v by_o the_o church_n and_o by_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n of_o the_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n v._o 4_o the_o assembly_n be_v gather_v at_o jerusalem_n the_o cause_n be_v hear_v v._o 4.5_o consider_v v._o 6._o discuss_v v._o 7._o voice_v v._o 7_o 8_o 9_o 10_o 11_o 12_o 13_o 14_o 15_o 16_o 17_o 18_o 19_o 20_o 21_o judge_v v._o 22._o the_o judgement_n or_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n or_o assembly_n send_v to_o antioch_n from_o the_o 22._o v._o to_o the_o 30._o read_v and_o obey_v by_o the_o church_n at_o antioch_n etc._n etc._n v._n 31._o here_o be_v the_o church_n of_o antioch_n judge_v by_o a_o superior_a church_n at_o jerusalem_n a_o appeal_n form_v or_o interject_v from_o the_o one_o to_o the_o other_o receive_v by_o the_o other_o judge_v and_o obey_v and_o therefore_o it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o there_o be_v some_o subordination_n betwixt_o these_o two_o church_n and_o that_o the_o one_o have_v authority_n over_o the_o other_o to_o this_o argument_n some_o answer_n 1._o that_o if_o it_o prove_v any_o thing_n it_o can_v only_o conclude_v a_o appeal_n from_o one_o parish_n church_n or_o particular_a congregation_n unto_o another_o since_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n and_o of_o jerusalem_n be_v no_o other_o than_o parish_n churches_n rep._n 1._o this_o answer_n can_v hold_v 1._o because_o no_o such_o thing_n can_v probable_o be_v collect_v out_o of_o this_o text_n or_o of_o any_o other_o in_o scripture_n and_o therefore_o it_o may_v be_v as_o easy_o reject_v by_o we_o as_o it_o be_v allege_v by_o they_o 2._o because_o hardly_o can_v it_o be_v prove_v that_o in_o those_o time_n church_n be_v divide_v into_o parish_n 3._o because_o a_o appeal_v can_v be_v from_o one_o parish_n or_o congregationall_a church_n unto_o another_o since_o their_o authority_n be_v equal_a but_o only_o from_o a_o inferior_a to_o a_o superior_a church_n or_o judicatory_a 4._o because_o if_o it_o be_v from_o one_o particular_a congregation_n to_o another_o than_o that_o congregation_n from_o which_o it_o be_v appeal_v be_v not_o complete_a in_o its_o judgement_n but_o have_v need_n of_o some_o extrinsecall_a power_n which_o be_v against_o the_o tenet_n of_o independent_o themselves_o 5._o because_o if_o we_o may_v appeal_v from_o one_o particular_a congregation_n to_o another_o how_o much_o more_o from_o a_o particular_a congregation_n unto_o a_o synod_n wherein_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n and_o especial_o that_o of_o prophecy_n do_v more_o abound_v 6._o because_o the_o apostle_n in_o jerusalem_n be_v not_o member_n of_o any_o particular_a church_n 7._o because_o if_o the_o assembly_n at_o jerusalem_n have_v be_v a_o particular_a or_o congregationall_a church_n it_o can_v not_o have_v give_v out_o a_o decree_n which_o shall_v have_v bind_v so_o many_o church_n to_o obedience_n viz._n those_o of_o antioch_n syria_n and_o cilicia_n v._o 23._o 2._o it_o may_v be_v otherways_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v a_o appeal_v but_o not_o to_o any_o ordinary_a but_o a_o extraordinary_a church_n viz._n to_o that_o of_o the_o apostle_n and_o that_o for_o these_o reason_n 1._o because_o it_o be_v extraordinary_o gather_v 2._o by_o extraordinary_a person_n 3._o it_o be_v compound_v of_o extraordinary_a person_n viz._n the_o apostle_n 4._o because_o this_o appeal_v be_v to_o the_o apostle_n who_o be_v infallible_a and_o extraordinary_a minister_n 5._o because_o it_o be_v in_o the_o birth_n and_o beginning_n of_o the_o gospel_n rep._n 2._o this_o answer_n can_v hold_v 1._o because_o the_o scripture_n declare_v not_o that_o this_o church_n or_o assembly_n be_v extraordinary_a 2._o neither_o be_v it_o a_o satisfactory_a answer_n whenever_o
better_o their_o cause_n fave_v only_o that_o it_o be_v naught_o it_o be_v true_o a_o strange_a thing_n that_o man_n of_o so_o great_a ability_n shall_v be_v able_a to_o say_v no_o more_o for_o themselves_o 8._o and_o since_o you_o m.s._n and_o they_o be_v so_o able_a will_v you_o or_o they_o i_o pray_v condescend_v to_o some_o private_a meeting_n with_o some_o of_o the_o presbyterian_o that_o it_o may_v be_v see_v who_o have_v the_o best_a cause_n and_o whether_o or_o no_o all_o your_o deep_a learning_n and_o great_a skill_n in_o sophistication_n wherein_o you_o so_o excel_v can_v set_v any_o probable_a show_n or_o face_n of_o reason_n upon_o your_o opinion_n which_o you_o hold_v to_o be_v no_o less_o than_o god_n reveal_v word_n m._n s._n answer_v 3._o better_o a_o door_n open_v to_o all_o sort_n of_o erroneous_a opinion_n yea_o and_o to_o many_o other_o inconvenience_n great_a than_o this_o then_o that_o the_o guilt_n of_o any_o persecution_n or_o of_o any_o evil_a entreat_n of_o the_o saint_n and_o people_n of_o god_n shall_v cleave_v unto_o the_o people_n or_o state_n a._n s._n this_o m._n s._n suppose_v 1._o that_o the_o independent_o be_v the_o saint_n 2._o and_o that_o in_o case_n they_o be_v not_o tolerate_v in_o establish_v public_o their_o church_n government_n and_o other_o tenet_n in_o despite_n of_o church_n and_o parliament_n both_o in_o the_o church_n and_o state_n that_o it_o be_v no_o less_o than_o the_o guilt_n of_o persecution_n against_o the_o saint_n draw_v upon_o the_o state_n 3._o that_o it_o be_v better_a that_o all_o the_o heresy_n of_o the_o world_n and_o worse_o shall_v creep_v into_o the_o church_n then_o that_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v tolerate_v but_o chastise_v in_o case_n they_o trouble_v the_o peace_n of_o either_o church_n or_o state_n i_o answer_v that_o all_o that_o m._n s._n here_o say_v be_v damnable_a untruth_n and_o that_o it_o be_v better_a that_o all_o the_o independent_o of_o this_o world_n be_v in_o america_n and_o that_o ten_o thousand_o time_n worse_o shall_v befall_v they_o then_o that_o the_o good_a name_n of_o god_n shall_v be_v dishonour_v by_o filthy_a heresy_n and_o if_o the_o independent_o have_v any_o fear_n of_o god_n before_o their_o eye_n and_o love_v not_o themselves_o better_a a_o great_a deal_n then_o god_n glory_n they_o will_v rather_o desire_v with_o moses_n to_o be_v scrape_v out_o of_o the_o book_n of_o life_n or_o with_o paul_n to_o be_v separate_v from_o christ_n then_o that_o christ_n church_n shall_v so_o suffer_v or_o god_n bless_a name_n be_v so_o dishonour_v a._n s._n 2._o reason_n it_o be_v dangerous_a for_o the_o state_n it_o may_v breed_v faction_n and_o division_n betwixt_o all_o person_n of_o whatsoever_o relation_n betwixt_o the_o magistrate_n and_o the_o subject_a the_o husband_n and_o the_o wife_n the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n brethren_n and_o sister_n the_o master_n and_o the_o servant_n when_o the_o one_o be_v of_o one_o religion_n or_o ecclesiastical_a government_n and_o the_o other_o of_o another_o as_o you_o yea_o to_o your_o no_o very_a great_a advantage_n have_v experiment_a it_o several_a time_n the_o son_n may_v refuse_v to_o receive_v any_o communion_n with_o the_o father_n and_o the_o brother_n with_o the_o brother_n to_o the_o utter_a dissolution_n of_o all_o natural_a civil_a and_o domestical_a bond_n of_o society_n and_o the_o reason_n of_o this_o may_v be_v because_o the_o one_o may_v excommunicate_v the_o other_o as_o daily_a experience_n testify_v m._n s._n the_o shadow_n of_o the_o mountain_n seem_v man_n unto_o you_o judg._n 9.36_o a._n s._n so_o say_v zebul_n the_o servant_n of_o abimelech_n the_o son_n of_o the_o concubine_n who_o by_o a_o conspiracy_n with_o the_o schichemite_n be_v make_v king_n and_o afterward_o murder_v his_o brethren_n and_o yet_o they_o be_v man_n viz._n wicked_a abimelech_n with_o his_o army_n and_o no_o shadow_n of_o mountain_n m._n s._n will_v have_v we_o live_v in_o security_n and_o will_v rather_o tolerate_v socinianism_n arminianism_n yea_o judaism_n and_o mahumetanism_n then_o that_o his_o own_o sect_n shall_v not_o be_v tolerate_v of_o so_o large_a a_o conscience_n be_v he_o a.s._n it_o may_v breed_v faction_n etc._n etc._n m.s._n but_o a._n s._n his_o may_n may_v possible_o not_o come_v in_o a_o age_n no_o nor_o in_o many_o generation_n and_o will_v he_o have_v so_o many_o thousand_o of_o the_o dear_a people_n of_o god_n as_o do_v apologise_v to_o eat_v their_o bread_n in_o darkness_n and_o he_o say_v heretofore_o that_o may_v come_v but_o once_o a_o year_n a.s._n it_o be_v subtle_o argue_v m.s._n of_o you_o with_o your_o may_n but_o it_o be_v too_o much_o that_o such_o a_o may_v come_v once_o a_o year_n or_o once_o in_o a_o age_n and_o better_a be_v it_o ten_o thousand_o of_o you_o shall_v perish_v than_o god_n be_v so_o offend_v for_o it_o be_v a_o maxim_n in_o divinity_n quodvis_fw-la malum_fw-la paenae_fw-la etiam_fw-la maximum_fw-la eligendum_fw-la potius_fw-la quà m_fw-la minimum_fw-la malum_fw-la culpae_fw-la nam_fw-la quaevis_fw-la culpa_fw-la pejor_fw-la quavis_fw-la poenâ_fw-la 2._o but_o i_o pray_v you_o learn_v of_o i_o that_o as_o impossibile_fw-it morale_fw-mi in_o moral_a matter_n such_o as_o this_o whereof_o we_o dispute_v be_v not_o that_o which_o never_o but_o which_o rare_o or_o hardly_o fall_v out_o so_o be_v possibile_fw-la morale_fw-la idem_fw-la quod_fw-la facilè_fw-la which_o easy_o and_o oftentimes_o fall_v out_o and_o not_o that_o fall_v out_o but_o once_o in_o a_o age_n and_o that_o it_o fall_v out_o so_o very_o oft_o we_o may_v prove_v it_o by_o the_o division_n in_o france_n the_o netherlands_o germany_n poland_n transilvania_n etc._n etc._n what_o i_o pray_v transport_v the_o crown_n of_o swede_n from_o the_o nephew_n to_o the_o uncle_n what_o move_v a_o king_n of_o spain_n to_o consent_v to_o his_o own_o son_n death_n what_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o so_o great_a a_o war_n betwixt_o the_o turk_n and_o the_o persian_a and_o final_o what_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o this_o our_o present_a war_n but_o the_o favour_v of_o popery_n the_o negotiation_n with_o rome_n our_o agent_n there_o father_n con_n and_o the_o pope_n nuncio_n here_o 2._o you_o be_v not_o so_o many_o thousand_o as_o you_o brag_v of_o save_v in_o london_n and_o a_o few_o mile_n about_o it_o your_o sect_n i_o think_v may_v easy_o be_v count_v by_o hundred_o and_o as_o for_o the_o remote_a part_n of_o the_o kingdom_n they_o be_v unknown_a creature_n to_o they_o 3._o if_o they_o be_v so_o dear_a to_o god_n they_o can_v never_o qua_fw-la tale_n suffer_v for_o so_o wicked_a a_o cause_n as_o for_o all_o licentiousness_n in_o religion_n 4._o they_o need_v not_o to_o suffer_v if_o they_o will_v not_o be_v turbulent_a but_o quiet_a and_o submit_v unto_o the_o law_n of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o such_o a_o ecclesiastical_a government_n as_o in_o god_n mercy_n shall_v be_v establish_v in_o the_o church_n what_o a_o sauciness_n be_v this_o that_o they_o will_v be_v content_a with_o nothing_o unless_o in_o despite_n of_o church_n and_o state_n they_o may_v do_v what_o they_o will_v 5._o as_o for_o his_o rhetorication_n in_o tell_v i_o that_o i_o be_o breed_v of_o rock_n and_o suck_v the_o milk_n of_o tiger_n all_o that_o shall_v not_o hinder_v i_o to_o maintain_v that_o the_o independent_o must_v be_v subject_a to_o order_n and_o authority_n both_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a as_o other_o man_n be_v or_o else_o suffer_v for_o their_o turbulent_a humour_n m._n s._n i_o will_v know_v of_o he_o whether_o he_o deem_v himself_o to_o be_v of_o another_o religion_n than_o the_o apologist_n if_o so_o candorem_fw-la tuum_fw-la a.s._n in_o that_o malignant_a expression_n etc._n etc._n a.s._n as_o for_o my_o religion_n you_o may_v know_v it_o m.s._n it_o be_v that_o which_o be_v declare_v in_o the_o confession_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n england_n the_o netherlands_o france_n etc._n etc._n but_o as_o for_o you_o sed_fw-la vos_fw-la qui_fw-la tandem_fw-la quibus_fw-la aut_fw-la venistis_fw-la ab_fw-la eris_fw-la quouè_fw-la tenetis_fw-la iter_fw-la that_o i_o know_v not_o and_o consequent_o whether_o i_o be_v of_o your_o religion_n or_o not_o you_o will_v have_v no_o confession_n of_o faith_n or_o discipline_n but_o what_o you_o may_v change_v fidem_fw-la diariam_fw-la aut_fw-la ad_fw-la summum_fw-la menstruam_fw-la such_o as_o you_o may_v change_v with_o every_o moon_n but_o to_o come_v more_o near_o to_o the_o point_n i_o pray_v you_o set_v forth_o a_o confession_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o name_n of_o all_o the_o independent_a church_n and_o subscribe_v all_o of_o you_o that_o you_o will_v stand_v to_o it_o and_o then_o i_o will_v answer_v your_o question_n if_o you_o will_v not_o here_o i_o will_v give_v you_o the_o best_a satisfaction_n i_o can_v and_o it_o be_v this_o viz._n
viz._n to_o assent_v to_o 〈◊〉_d discipline_n in_o this_o manner_n if_o your_o meaning_n be_v in_o case_n they_o assent_n to_o your_o doctrine_n and_o be_v resolve_v to_o assent_v to_o your_o discipline_n viz._n immediate_o when_o it_o have_v but_o the_o stamp_n of_o presbyterial_a authority_n set_v upon_o it_o we_o be_v of_o your_o mind_n but_o so_o even_o the_o presbyterial_a party_n stand_v in_o need_n of_o a_o toleration_n as_o well_o as_o we_o but_o if_o your_o meaning_n be_v that_o a_o resolution_n in_o your_o brethren_n the_o apologist_n to_o assent_v to_o your_o discipline_n viz._n when_o and_o assoon_o as_o they_o can_v possible_o satisfy_v themselves_o touch_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o it_o it_o will_v exempt_v they_o from_o a_o necessity_n of_o toleration_n as_o for_o the_o first_o part_n of_o his_o distinction_n 1._o it_o be_v not_o true_a that_o presbyterial_a discipline_n will_v stand_v in_o need_n of_o a_o toleration_n for_o what_o ever_o be_v conclude_v it_o can_v stand_v in_o need_n of_o a_o toleration_n since_o it_o be_v already_o approve_a as_o i_o have_v already_o show_v unless_o the_o parliament_n and_o assembly_n of_o divine_n recall_v that_o precedent_a approbation_n 2._o neither_o by_o a_o resolution_n mean_v i_o a_o precipitate_v resolution_n to_o assent_v as_o you_o mean_v in_o the_o first_o part_n of_o your_o distinction_n nor_o a_o resolution_n to_o assent_v when_o you_o be_v satisfy_v yourselves_o as_o you_o mean_v in_o the_o second_o part_n for_o god_n know_v what_o can_v or_o will_v satisfy_v pertinacious_a man_n but_o a_o resolution_n to_o assent_v and_o obey_v after_o that_o you_o have_v receive_v sufficient_a satisfaction_n moral_o by_o the_o synod_n in_o all_o their_o conclusion_n and_o determination_n i_o say_v moral_o for_o god_n alone_o who_o have_v create_v the_o soul_n of_o man_n can_v satisfy_v its_o understanding_n and_o will_v physical_o and_o if_o you_o assent_v not_o to_o it_o you_o may_v be_v just_o condemn_v as_o schismatic_n at_o least_o and_o if_o it_o be_v not_o so_o no_o judgement_n can_v be_v conclude_v in_o any_o judicatory_a of_o this_o world_n neither_o ecclesiastical_a or_o political_a yea_o not_o in_o the_o independent_a congregation_n themselves_o for_o he_o that_o be_v to_o be_v condemn_v will_v evermore_o say_v that_o he_o be_v not_o satisfy_v with_o the_o judgement_n if_o he_o hope_v to_o escape_v so_o m._n s._n that_o you_o add_v be_v very_o incongruous_a etc._n etc._n 1._o we_o marvel_v who_o you_o mean_v etc._n etc._n a._n s._n but_o other_o who_o be_v not_o independent_o will_v not_o marvel_n and_o if_o you_o be_v so_o dull_a and_o blockish_a as_o you_o will_v seem_v to_o be_v i_o will_v help_v you_o my_o meaning_n be_v this_o that_o if_o you_o be_v not_o mind_v to_o assent_v to_o the_o discipline_n which_o the_o assembly_n god_n willing_a shall_v establish_v as_o it_o seem_v you_o be_v not_o as_o appeareth_z by_o your_o book_n and_o your_o sue_v thus_o for_o a_o toleration_n and_o in_o declare_v how_o you_o be_v mind_v to_o die_v in_o your_o independency_n what_o ever_o may_v befall_v you_o then_o the_o assembly_n have_v give_v their_o judgement_n and_o conclude_v upon_o some_o form_n of_o discipline_n must_v discuss_v the_o point_n wherein_o you_o dissent_v from_o their_o determination_n and_o consider_v whether_o they_o be_v such_o as_o in_o good_a conscience_n you_o can_v entertain_v communion_n with_o we_o and_o so_o proceed_v to_o a_o judgement_n against_o you_o all_o according_a as_o your_o opinion_n may_v deserve_v whereas_o you_o say_v how_o shall_v you_o resolve_v before_o hand_n and_o yet_o m._n s._n himself_o as_o we_o have_v see_v it_o under_o his_o hand_n in_o this_o book_n be_v resolve_v to_o suffer_v all_o thing_n rather_o than_o to_o quit_v his_o opinion_n m._n s._n we_o grant_v that_o man_n of_o good_a ability_n and_o conscience_n may_v draw_v up_o a_o very_a satisfactory_a resolution_n concern_v such_o or_o such_o a_o case_n or_o practice_n about_o which_o i_o be_o scru_a plead_v but_o it_o will_v not_o follow_v from_o hence_o that_o therefore_o this_o resolution_n will_v be_v satisfactory_a unto_o i_o or_o that_o i_o with_o a_o good_a conscience_n may_v walk_v by_o it_o a._n s._n it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o this_o resolution_n will_v be_v satisfactory_a unto_o you_o but_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o it_o shall_v be_v and_o that_o with_o good_a conscience_n you_o shall_v walk_v by_o it_o and_o consequent_o that_o if_o you_o be_v not_o satisfy_v with_o that_o which_o shall_v satisfy_v you_o and_o in_o good_a conscience_n walk_v by_o that_o whereby_o you_o shall_v walk_v you_o shall_v be_v punish_v for_o you_o must_v learn_v to_o be_v satisfy_v with_o that_o which_o be_v satisfactory_a now_o it_o be_v your_o sin_n not_o to_o be_v satisfy_v with_o that_o which_o be_v satisfactory_a and_o i_o see_v not_o how_o this_o sin_n can_v excuse_v another_o sin_n proceed_v from_o it_o a._n s._n 7._o they_o be_v not_o press_v to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o their_o conscience_n ergo_fw-la they_o need_v not_o to_o be_v suitor_n for_o a_o toleration_n or_o if_o they_o be_v it_o just_o may_v be_v refuse_v m.s._n pag._n 92._o answ_n 1._o he_o deni_v the_o consequence_n of_o this_o argument_n a._n s._n but_o i_o prove_v it_o for_o the_o parliament_n be_v resolve_v and_o have_v enjoin_v the_o assembly_n to_o seek_v out_o and_o give_v their_o judgement_n what_o discipline_n be_v most_o conform_a unto_o god_n word_n which_o can_v be_v but_o one_o and_o that_o we_o be_v all_o swear_v by_o covenant_n to_o establish_v and_o preserve_v it_o and_o to_o oppose_v all_o heresy_n and_o schism_n there_o be_v no_o door_n open_a for_o more_o than_o one_o true_a discipline_n and_o so_o this_o hypothesis_n be_v grant_v i_o argue_v thus_o suppose_v we_o can_v have_v any_o more_o but_o one_o discipline_n etc._n etc._n and_o that_o thereby_o independent_o be_v not_o press_v to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o their_o conscience_n they_o need_v not_o be_v suitor_n for_o a_o toleration_n but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a as_o appear_v by_o our_o covenant_n and_o the_o ordinance_n of_o the_o parliament_n ergo_fw-la the_o connexion_n in_o the_o first_o proposition_n be_v evident_a for_o if_o they_o stand_v in_o need_n to_o be_v suitor_n for_o any_o such_o toleration_n they_o consequent_o have_v need_n to_o be_v suitor_n for_o perjury_n and_o a_o breach_n of_o the_o nationall_n covenant_n whereby_o we_o have_v all_o swear_v the_o contrary_a but_o m._n s._n bring_v his_o reason_n wherefore_o they_o must_v be_v suitor_n for_o such_o a_o toleration_n against_o the_o covenant_n and_o the_o parliament_n ordinance_n viz._n that_o so_o they_o may_v be_v actor_n in_o good_a according_a to_o their_o conscience_n a._n s._n 1._o so_o to_o be_v suitor_n for_o a_o liberty_n that_o they_o may_v perjure_v themselves_o in_o break_v of_o their_o covenant_n and_o the_o parliament_n ordinance_n be_v to_o be_v suitor_n for_o good_a 2._o m._n s._n here_o beg_v the_o question_n viz._n that_o there_o be_v no_o good_a discipline_n but_o independency_n and_o whatsoever_o be_v or_o shall_v be_v conclude_v that_o yet_o the_o independent_a way_n must_v hold_v and_o they_o be_v suitor_n for_o it_o 3._o we_o have_v prove_v heretofore_o that_o it_o be_v not_o good_a but_o very_o pernicious_a and_o by_o consequence_n more_o dangerous_a than_o many_o heresy_n yea_o then_o lutheranism_n popery_n or_o arminiansme_n m.s._n add_v it_o will_v be_v a_o great_a honour_n to_o your_o presbytery_n than_o the_o contrary_a peremtoriousnesse_n be_v like_a to_o be_v viz._n to_o be_v suitor_n for_o a_o toleration_n of_o independency_n a._n s._n oh_o how_o much_o be_v we_o behold_v to_o you_o good_a m._n s._n for_o your_o pain_n in_o teach_v the_o presbytery_n a_o point_n of_o honour_n to_o perjure_v themselves_o by_o violate_v their_o covenant_n and_o the_o parliament_n ordinance_n god_n keep_v we_o from_o your_o great_a honour_n and_o give_v we_o grace_n to_o perform_v our_o vow_n unto_o the_o lord_n m._n s._n the_o apologist_n conceive_v there_o be_v a_o necessity_n upon_o they_o to_o save_v the_o soul_n of_o other_o as_o well_o as_o their_o own_o a.s._n 1_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n lay_v upon_o they_o to_o save_v soul_n by_o such_o mean_n as_o be_v not_o the_o way_n to_o save_v other_o man_n soul_n but_o the_o ready_a way_n to_o damn_v their_o own_o 2._o and_o be_v there_o no_o other_o way_n to_o save_v they_o but_o by_o independency_n 3._o if_o you_o conceive_v so_o then_o if_o other_o man_n conceive_v a_o necessity_n lay_v upon_o they_o to_o save_v soul_n by_o suppress_v of_o independency_n they_o must_v necessary_o suppress_v it_o 4._o your_o conceit_n must_v not_o be_v take_v for_o rule_n whereby_o the_o parliament_n and_o the_o assembly_n must_v be_v guide_v
fain_o know_v what_o i_o mean_v to_o do_v with_o this_o story_n a._n s._n since_o he_o pretend_v so_o great_a dulness_n i_o have_v put_v the_o argument_n in_o form_n for_o he_o and_o show_v he_o how_o i_o serve_v myself_o of_o it_o to_o confirm_v my_o minor_a by_o m._n s._n prove_v that_o this_o story_n can_v serve_v i_o for_o say_v he_o i._n e._n a._n s._n do_v not_o approve_v of_o those_o proceed_n viz._n of_o the_o independent_o of_o n._n e._n a._n s._n it_o be_v all_o one_o for_o i_o argue_v only_o ex_fw-la concessis_fw-la which_o make_v it_o a_o argument_n ad_fw-la hominem_fw-la and_o show_v how_o that_o in_o so_o do_v and_o by_o such_o sue_v for_o a_o toleration_n here_o you_o stand_v not_o to_o your_o own_o principle_n but_o change_v they_o with_o the_o climate_n whereof_o i_o say_v what_o a_o very_a grave_a precedent_n of_o the_o court_n of_o parliament_n of_o paris_n say_v to_o the_o jesuit_n upon_o the_o like_a case_n the_o lord_n keep_v i_o from_o man_n that_o have_v one_o faith_n on_o the_o one_o and_o another_o on_o the_o other_o side_n of_o the_o alps_n so_o i_o to_o you_o god_n keep_v i_o from_o man_n who_o maintain_v some_o principle_n in_o america_n or_o new_a england_n and_o the_o contrary_a in_o europe_n or_o in_o old_a england_n i_o pray_v you_o holy_a father_n drink_v together_o and_o agree_v before_o you_o come_v to_o put_v we_o here_o in_o combustion_n m._n s._n be_v the_o man_n so_o full_a of_o the_o spirit_n of_o reprehension_n against_o such_o practice_n and_o yet_o so_o full_a of_o the_o spirit_n of_o imitation_n i._o e._n if_o a._n s._n reprove_v such_o practice_n he_o shall_v not_o imitate_v they_o a._n s._n i_o have_v answer_v 1._o that_o my_o argument_n prove_v not_o what_o i_o shall_v do_v but_o what_o you_o shall_v not_o do_v it_o be_v argumentum_fw-la ad_fw-la hominem_fw-la 2._o i_o answer_v again_o that_o we_o persecute_v not_o independent_o as_o you_o say_v but_o hinder_v they_o to_o sow_v their_o tare_n they_o have_v never_o be_v nor_o be_v they_o nor_o be_v they_o ever_o like_a to_o be_v persecute_v by_o the_o parliament_n as_o i_o hope_v i_o hope_v the_o independent_o will_v have_v more_o conscience_n then_o to_o give_v just_a occasion_n unto_o the_o parliament_n to_o punish_v they_o but_o if_o they_o continue_v in_o their_o pertinacy_n and_o the_o parliament_n refuse_v then_o to_o grant_v they_o a_o toleration_n it_o will_v no_o more_o be_v a_o persecution_n than_o it_o will_v be_v to_o hinder_v man_n to_o blaspheme_v god_n name_n 3._o i_o can_v imitate_v they_o for_o i_o have_v no_o power_n or_o authority_n as_o those_o who_o practice_n i_o refute_v only_o i_o plead_v for_o the_o truth_n and_o show_v what_o shall_v be_v do_v 4._o howbeit_o i_o have_v authority_n among_o the_o dependent_n as_o they_o have_v among_o those_o pretend_a independent_a creature_n yet_o can_v i_o not_o imitate_v they_o in_o refuse_v of_o a_o toleration_n for_o the_o case_n will_v not_o be_v the_o same_o or_o alike_o 5._o and_o i_o grant_v you_o that_o if_o the_o cause_v you_o maintain_v be_v as_o just_a as_o it_o be_v unjust_a those_o of_o new_a england_n shall_v do_v well_o to_o refuse_v we_o a_o toleration_n 6._o and_o yet_o can_v they_o not_o so_o just_o refuse_v we_o our_o demand_n as_o we_o refuse_v you_o you_o for_o the_o presbyterian_o who_o be_v suitor_n for_o a_o toleration_n in_o new_a england_n be_v only_a suitor_n for_o presbyterian_o and_o those_o very_o few_o in_o number_n whereas_o m._n s._n and_o his_o colleague_n plead_v for_o a_o toleration_n of_o all_o sort_n of_o independent_o yea_o of_o all_o the_o sect_n of_o the_o world_n for_o any_o thing_n we_o know_v in_o the_o same_o sect_n p._n 103._o he_o condemn_v such_o practice_n in_o his_o brethren_n of_o new_a england_n in_o say_v that_o in_o such_o proceed_n they_o justify_v not_o themselves_o in_o the_o sight_n of_o god_n viz._n justitia_fw-la causae_fw-la 7._o neither_o do_v either_o god_n or_o our_o conscience_n judge_v we_o in_o such_o proceed_n i_o e._n condemn_v we_o for_o we_o judge_v according_a to_o god_n word_n that_o divers_a sect_n which_o you_o will_v have_v tolerate_v be_v not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v but_o that_o they_o be_v all_o to_o be_v suppress_v 8._o whereas_o he_o say_v that_o i_o be_o more_o of_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o independent_o of_o new_a england_n than_o the_o apologist_n i_o be_o glad_a that_o he_o be_v ashamed_a of_o his_o father_n and_o i_o agree_v with_o they_o in_o this_o that_o heretic_n schismatic_n and_o idolater_n be_v not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v by_o the_o church_n of_o god_n which_o the_o independent_o of_o old_a england_n deny_v most_o bold_o what_o you_o say_v of_o the_o independent_a apologist_n that_o they_o profess_v not_o persecution_n mere_o for_o little_a difference_n in_o point_n of_o discipline_n i_o answer_v 1._o they_o do_v well_o to_o profess_v it_o since_o their_o power_n as_o yet_o be_v very_o small_a but_o what_o they_o may_v profess_v if_o they_o can_v get_v any_o power_n into_o their_o hand_n we_o know_v not_o 2._o only_o we_o say_v that_o the_o american_n independent_o who_o be_v ejusdem_fw-la speciei_fw-la with_o you_o so_o soon_o as_o ever_o they_o have_v authority_n do_v other_o way_n than_o you_o say_v the_o apologetical_a independent_o do_v profess_v without_o authority_n 3._o and_o it_o may_v be_v that_o they_o be_v minister_n will_v profess_v it_o but_o will_v you_o assure_v we_o that_o your_o magistrate_n who_o be_v independent_o shall_v profess_v the_o same_o m._n s._n add_v if_o they_o do_v so_o for_o want_n of_o light_n must_v this_o be_v a_o band_n of_o conscience_n upon_o they_o to_o bow_v down_o their_o back_n and_o to_o suffer_v presbyterian_a greatness_n to_o go_v over_o they_o as_o stone_n in_o the_o street_n a._n s._n in_o a_o word_n this_o be_v to_o deny_v the_o consequence_n of_o my_o major_n which_o i_o have_v confirm_v but_o i_o answer_v 1._o the_o question_n be_v not_o of_o presbyterian_o neither_o do_v i_o speak_v of_o they_o in_o my_o argument_n 2._o the_o presbyterian_o yea_o their_o nationall_n church_n inflict_v none_o but_o spiritual_a punishment_n which_o every_o congregationall_a independent_a church_n compound_v peradventure_o of_o seven_o or_o eight_o idle_a fellow_n only_o arrogate_v unto_o themselves_o 3._o what_o you_o say_v of_o the_o want_n of_o light_n in_o the_o independent_o of_o new_a england_n it_o be_v ridiculous_a for_o they_o say_v that_o they_o have_v more_o light_n than_o all_o the_o quinqu_n '_o ecclesian_n minister_n and_o will_v hold_v you_o as_o blind_a as_o you_o hold_v they_o no_o wonder_n that_o so_o independent_a light_n be_v so_o contradictory_n one_o to_o another_o 4._o i_o wonder_v how_o you_o can_v call_v that_o rather_o a_o presbyterian_a greatness_n wherein_o the_o spirit_n of_o prophet_n submit_v unto_o prophet_n and_o the_o less_o unto_o the_o great_a light_n then_o that_o wherein_o six_o or_o seven_o silly_a fellow_n and_o a_o little_a independent_a minister_n be_v they_o never_o so_o erroneous_a in_o their_o opinion_n and_o execrable_a in_o their_o life_n will_v not_o submit_v unto_o the_o whole_a christian_n world_n m._n s._n again_o he_o say_v p._n 104._o that_o out_o of_o fear_n they_o be_v suitor_n for_o a_o toleration_n if_o they_o do_v not_o bestir_v themselves_o by_o some_o mean_n or_o other_o to_o prevent_v it_o a._n s._n this_o be_v not_o metus_fw-la iustùs_fw-la sed_fw-la injustus_fw-la qui_fw-la non_fw-la cadit_fw-la in_o virum_fw-la constantem_fw-la it_o be_v not_o a_o just_a but_o a_o unjust_a fear_n that_o become_v not_o man_n but_o child_n who_o fear_v their_o own_o shadow_n at_o noonday_n some_o man_n do_v fear_n fly_v and_o such_o be_v your_o fear_n for_o it_o be_v a_o maxim_n of_o our_o discipline_n that_o man_n shall_v not_o be_v compel_v to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o their_o conscience_n and_o this_o may_v suffice_v to_o put_v you_o out_o of_o fear_n which_o if_o it_o can_v do_v we_o can_v cure_v pisander_n fear_n what_o ill_a usage_n have_v you_o receive_v here_o of_o the_o parliament_n that_o shall_v make_v you_o so_o fearful_a what_o you_o mean_v by_o your_o mean_n to_o prevent_v it_o i_o know_v not_o unless_o they_o be_v those_o that_o some_o of_o the_o people_n offer_v who_o be_v so_o capable_a of_o new_a impression_n that_o the_o 5._o apologist_n mention_v in_o their_o apology_n or_o that_o other_o viz._n that_o the_o independent_a party_n do_v offer_v to_o entertain_v 4000_o man_n in_o these_o war_n provide_v they_o may_v have_v have_v liberty_n to_o have_v make_v choice_n of_o their_o commander_n what_o he_o say_v in_o the_o rest_n of_o this_o §_o in_o his_o 4._o answer_v be_v but_o a_o tale_n and_o be_v sundry_a time_n answer_v as_o for_o that_o