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opinion_n according_a church_n true_a 959 5 4.6802 3 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A15512 A modest briefe discussion of some points taught by M. Doctour Kellison in his treatise of the ecclesiasticall hierarchy. By Nicholas Smyth Knott, Edward, 1582-1656. 1630 (1630) STC 25779; ESTC S102767 83,544 218

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have_v a_o bishop_n for_o fear_n of_o persecution_n and_o n_o 8._o he_o only_o say_v i_o think_v neither_o any_o country_n nor_o any_o one_o of_o the_o country_n for_o fear_v of_o persecution_n can_v oppose_v against_o the_o come_n in_o of_o a_o bishop_n though_o thereby_o only_o the_o sacrament_n of_o confirmation_n shall_v be_v want_v we_o see_v according_a to_o his_o own_o confession_n it_o be_v but_o his_o opinion_n and_o think_v which_o i_o hope_v he_o will_v not_o not_o bind_v all_o other_o to_o follow_v although_o it_o be_v in_o deed_n probable_a as_o i_o have_v demonstrate_v it_o not_o to_o be_v 13_o and_o i_o shall_v wish_v m._n doctor_n to_o be_v of_o my_o mind_n if_o it_o be_v but_o lest_o otherwise_o he_o may_v seem_v to_o dissent_v in_o judgement_n from_o my_o lord_n of_o chalcedon_n himself_o who_o upon_o occasion_n of_o speech_n about_o some_o authority_n nothing_o touch_v confirmation_n which_o his_o lordship_n pretend_v say_v plain_o that_o
unless_o he_o do_v compass_v those_o pretence_n he_o will_v leave_v all_o which_o my_o lord_n a_o man_n of_o so_o great_a learning_n and_o zeal_n will_v never_o have_v utter_v if_o he_o have_v conceive_v the_o very_a receive_n of_o confirmation_n to_o be_v of_o so_o great_a necessity_n that_o for_o it_o alone_o all_o catholic_n be_v oblige_v to_o endure_v increase_n of_o persecution_n for_o if_o the_o matter_n be_v so_o that_o sacrament_n alone_o be_v likewise_o a_o very_a sufficient_a cause_n of_o my_o lord_n stay_v in_o england_n although_o other_o pretence_n shall_v not_o sucseede_v especial_o it_o be_v a_o certain_a doctrine_n of_o divines_n that_o bishop_n have_v great_a obligation_n to_o administer_v confirmation_n than_o people_n to_o receve_v it_o moreover_o see_v my_o lord_n have_v style_v himself_o ordinary_a of_o scotland_n doubtless_o he_o will_v extend_v his_o charity_n to_o that_o kingdom_n if_o he_o be_v of_o m._n doct._n opinion_n concern_v the_o necessity_n of_o confirmation_n in_o a_o country_n groan_v under_o a_o heavy_a persecution_n as_o at_o this_o present_a the_o catholic_n of_o scotland_n do_v and_o therefore_o stand_v in_o great_a need_n of_o that_o sacrament_n neither_o do_v i_o think_v m._n doctor_n will_v condemn_v of_o deadly_a sin_n the_o catholic_n of_o scotland_n for_o not_o seek_v to_o have_v a_o bishop_n to_o administer_v that_o sacrament_n or_o my_o lord_n of_o chalcedon_n for_o not_o go_v to_o administer_v it_o but_o now_o let_v we_o see_v what_o m._n doctor_n in_o his_o 14._o chapter_n where_o he_o handle_v this_o point_n do_v bring_v in_o proof_n of_o his_o doctrine_n 14_o his_o first_o argument_n be_v because_o without_o confirmation_n we_o can_v be_v perfect_a christian_n see_v according_a to_o s._n thomas_n by_o confirmation_n we_o receive_v our_o perfect_a growth_n to_o this_o i_o have_v already_o answer_v &_o now_o only_o wish_v the_o reader_n to_o be_v mindful_a that_o according_a to_o s._n thomas_n confirmation_n and_o consequent_o the_o effect_n thereof_o for_o example_n perfect_a growth_n and_o whatsoever_o else_o may_v be_v have_v without_o a_o bishop_n and_o so_o if_o m._n doctor_n will_v stick_v to_o s._n thomas_n his_o opinion_n must_v go_v down_o 15_o then_o he_o allege_v s._n clement_n epist_n 4._o say_v thus_o omnibus_fw-la ergo_fw-la festinandum_fw-la est_fw-la sine_fw-la morarenasci_fw-la deo_fw-la &_o demum_fw-la consignari_fw-la ab_fw-la episcopo_fw-la id_fw-la est_fw-la septiformem_fw-la gratiam_fw-la spiritus_fw-la sancti_fw-la percipere_fw-la quia_fw-la incertus_fw-la est_fw-la uniuscuiusque_fw-la exitus_fw-la aquavitae_fw-la quum_fw-la autem_fw-la regeneratus_fw-la fuerit_fw-la per_fw-la aquam_fw-la &_o postmodum_fw-la septiformis_fw-la spiritus_fw-la gratia_fw-la ab_fw-la episcopo_fw-la confirmatus_fw-la quia_fw-la aliter_fw-la perfectus_fw-la esse_fw-la christianus_n nequaquam_fw-la poterit_fw-la etc._n etc._n all_o therefore_o must_v make_v haste_n without_o delay_n to_o be_v regenerate_v to_o god_n and_o then_o to_o be_v consign_v by_o the_o bishop_n that_o be_v to_o receive_v the_o sevenfold_a grace_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n because_o the_o end_n of_o every_o one_o life_n be_v uncertain_a but_o when_o he_o shall_v be_v regenerate_v by_o water_n and_o afterward_o confirm_v by_o the_o bishop_n with_o the_o sevenfold_a grace_n of_o the_o spirit_n because_o otherwise_o he_o can_v be_v a_o perfect_a christian_a etc._n etc._n to_o this_o authority_n i_o answer_v 16_o first_n m._n doctor_n shall_v not_o have_v ground_v so_o hard_a a_o doctrine_n upon_o a_o epistle_n which_o i_o suppose_v he_o know_v not_o to_o be_v so_o authentical_a as_o to_o settle_v thereon_o a_o doctrinal_a point_n as_o he_o may_v see_v by_o bellarmine_n in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr scriptoribus_fw-la ecclesiasticis_fw-la second_o i_o may_v answer_v out_o of_o estius_n in_o that_o very_a place_n which_o m._n doctor_n cite_v out_o of_o he_o for_o the_o necessity_n of_o confirmation_n in_o time_n of_o persecution_n and_o it_o seem_v not_o fair_a deal_n to_o bring_v estius_n as_o far_o as_o he_o seem_v for_o his_o purpose_n and_o not_o so_o much_o as_o take_v notice_n or_o confute_v what_o in_o the_o same_o author_n in_o the_o same_o place_n and_o to_o the_o same_o purpose_n he_o find_v against_o he_o estius_n therefore_o observe_v that_o the_o father_n when_o they_o say_v that_o without_o confirmation_n faithful_a people_n be_v not_o perfect_o or_o full_o christian_n do_v general_o allude_v to_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n which_o signify_v anoint_v &_o therefore_o they_o deny_v that_o they_o be_v full_o christian_n who_o have_v not_o receive_v episcopal_a unction_n namely_o have_v reference_n to_o the_o word_n christian_n as_o s._n augustinel_n 17._o civet_n cap._n 4._o say_v that_o all_o who_o be_v anoint_v with_o chrism_n may_v right_o be_v call_v christi_fw-la christ_n by_o this_o be_v clear●_n on_o what_o sense_n the_o word_n of_o clement_n cite_v by_o m._n doctor_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v thus_o far_o estius_n who_o m._n doctor_n high_o commend_v for_o a_o learned_a and_o holy_a man_n &_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v how_o direct_o he_o do_v not_o only_o answer_v m._n doctor_n argument_n but_o also_o say_v that_o it_o be_v clear_a in_o what_o sense_n the_o word_n of_o s._n clement_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v it_o seem_v a_o hard_a case_n when_o m._n doctor_n be_v force_v to_o allege_v estius_n as_o his_o chief_a author_n for_o the_o necessity_n of_o confirmation_n as_o afterward_o we_o shall_v see_v who_o in_o the_o very_a same_o place_n destroy_v a_o main_a ground_n bring_v by_o m._n doctor_n for_o the_o necessity_n of_o the_o same_o sacrament_n three_o there_o occur_v a_o answer_n clear_o deduce_v out_o of_o s._n clement_n own_o word_n and_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o will_v full_o satisfy_v the_o learned_a reader_n the_o common_a practice_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n be_v and_o be_v yet_o in_o the_o eastern_a church_n and_o at_o rome_n when_o convert_v lewes_z or_o turk_n ar●_n solemn_o baptize_v together_o with_o baptism_n to_o give_v the_o sacrament_n of_o confirmation_n and_o so_o whosoever_o in_o those_o time_n be_v not_o confirm_v want_v also_o baptism_n &_o hence_o s._n clement_n may_v well_o say_v that_o he_o that_o be_v not_o baptize_v and_o confirm_v be_v not_o a_o perfect_a christian_n but_o this_o be_v far_o from_o prove_v that_o without_o confirmation_n as_o separate_v from_o baptism_n we_o can_v be_v perfect_o christian_n this_o sense_n be_v manifest_a if_o we_o ponder_v s._n clement_n word_n for_o have_v say_v all_o must_v make_v haste_n to_o be_v regenerate_v to_o god_n and_o then_o to_o be_v consign_v by_o the_o bishop_n he_o say_v not_o afterward_o but_o when_o he_o shall_v be_v confirm_v by_o the_o bishop_n because_o otherwise_o he_o can_v be_v a_o perfect_a christian_n but_o still_o join_v it_o with_o baptism_n and_o say_v but_o when_o he_o shall_v be_v regenerate_v by_o water_n and_o afterward_o confirm_v by_o the_o bishop_n because_o otherwise_o he_o can_v be_v a_o perfect_a christian_a still_o as_o i_o say_v repeat_v together_o both_o those_o sacrament_n because_o they_o be_v wont_a to_o be_v administer_v at_o one_o time_n and_o whosoever_o have_v or_o want_v one_o infallible_o have_v or_o want_v both_o of_o they_o &_o in_o that_o manner_n it_o be_v all_o one_o to_o say_v one_o be_v not_o confirm_v as_o to_o say_v he_o be_v not_o baptize_v beside_o s._n clement_n discourse_n all_o must_v make_v haste_n to_o be_v regenerate_v to_o god_n and_o then_o to_o be_v consign_v by_o the_o bishop_n because_o the_o end_n of_o every_o one_o life_n as_o uncertain_a make_v it_o clear_a that_o his_o speech_n be_v of_o baptism_n for_o howesoever_o necessary_a confirmation_n be_v yet_o certain_o it_o be_v not_o of_o so_o great_a haste_n as_o s._n clement_n urge_v yea_o it_o be_v che●fly_o for_o those_o who_o be_v to_o live_v &_o have_v occasion_n to_o profess_v there_o faith_n as_o s._n thomas_n allege_v out_o of_o pope_n melchiade_n 4._o s._n tho._n 3._o p._n q._n 72._o a._n 8._o 〈◊〉_d 4._o &_o therefore_o it_o have_v be_v a_o unfit_a reason_n of_o s._n clement_n to_o hasten_v man_n to_o confirmation_n because_o the_o end_n of_o every_o one_o life_n be_v uncertain_a for_o as_o i_o say_v the_o less_o certainty_n we_o have_v of_o life_n and_o more_o vicinity_n to_o death_n the_o less_o necessity_n we_o have_v of_o confirmation_n but_o for_o baptism_n his_o reason_n of_o the_o uncertainty_n of_o man_n last_o end_n be_v very_o fit_a and_o urgent_a &_o therefore_o it_o be_v clear_a s._n clement_n speech_n be_v refer_v to_o the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n my_o four_o answer_n be_v that_o s._n clement_n be_v not_o faithful_o allege_v by_o m._n doctor_n for_o s._n clement_n after_o he_o have_v say_v when_o he_o shall_v be_v regenerate_v by_o water_n and_o afterward_o confirm_v by_o the_o bishop_n with_o the_o sevenfold_a grace_n of_o the_o spirit_n because_o otherwise_o he_o